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News & General Discussion => News Stories and Current Events => Topic started by: trdsf on March 21, 2018, 03:49:45 PM

Title: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on March 21, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
They now attract genuine Nazis to run under their banner (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/holocaust-denier-wins-gop-nomination-in-heavily-democratic-seat/ar-BBKusDu?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout).  As if the GOP didn't learn their lesson when they ran Roy Moore, or from the results from the supposedly-safely Republican district PA-18 last week.

I will grant the Illinois GOP the following: former head of the American Nazi Party Arthur Jones is running in a district the Repubs officially decided not to contest, is in the race without their blessing or coöperation (they've blocked his previous attempts to run for Congress on their ticket) and they've completely disavowed his candidacy.

That said, when you have a racist at the pinnacle of your party, this can't be called surprising.  And it cannot be called an accomplishment that they've made the political process safe for self-declared Nazis to run.

Also, please please please please let someone run this in (or as) their ad against him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z75DN5r_6H4
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
So you're telling me the GOP has stopped him from running under them at every chance they could, and publicly disavowed him a dozen times, but due to circumstances other than the GOP's approval of him, he is running this time - and you think that says anything about the GOP other than that they don't fucking like him?

(https://i.imgur.com/y1xoTLE.gif)


nice spin there m8.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:27:05 PM
They could have put up a candidate.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:27:05 PM
They could have put up a candidate.

Sure.

And yes that still does not change the truism that *not* putting up a candidate to run against Arthur Jones is not synonymous with being pro-Arthur Jones.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 04:33:44 PM
Sure.

And yes that still does not change the truism that *not* putting up a candidate to run against Arthur Jones is not synonymous with being pro-Arthur Jones.
No, it's being quiescent when a fascist wants to be associated with their party. Strangely, that's still stupid where I come from.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on March 21, 2018, 04:56:16 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:27:05 PM
They could have put up a candidate.
True.  They've known about this guy for some time; they could have put up a placeholder and then not spent anything on the campaign since they'd already decided not to contest the seat.  Better that, than let themselves be associated with this guy.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 21, 2018, 04:56:16 PM
True.  They've known about this guy for some time; they could have put up a placeholder and then not spent anything on the campaign since they'd already decided not to contest the seat.  Better that, than let themselves be associated with this guy.
Good choices, not implemented because ... Well, because this is the GOP we're talking about. The Grim Old Party has lost the ability to govern.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 05:50:17 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
No, it's being quiescent when a fascist wants to be associated with their party. Strangely, that's still stupid where I come from.

Your conclusion that it's stupid is not one that I take issue with. What I take issue with is any attempt to spin this as support for Arthur - because that is a contention that cannot be necessitated logically from this information.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 06:11:21 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 05:50:17 PM
Your conclusion that it's stupid is not one that I take issue with. What I take issue with is any attempt to spin this as support for Arthur - because that is a contention that cannot be necessitated logically from this information.
True. But they needed to do one thing to remove support from the Nazi. Run their own candidate.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2018, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:27:05 PM
They could have put up a candidate.

All GOP candidates have to have prior approval from Kremlin.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2018, 07:01:26 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
No, it's being quiescent when a fascist wants to be associated with their party. Strangely, that's still stupid where I come from.

So why haven't you moved to that jurisdiction and run against him?  You secretly love Hitler?
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on March 21, 2018, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2018, 06:11:21 PM
True. But they needed to do one thing to remove support from the Nazi. Run their own candidate.
I hate it when candidates run unopposed.  Even in an "unwinnable" district.  I mean, look what happened when Obama ran a 50-state strategy in '08 -- even granting other circumstances like the monumental unpopularity of the incumbent and the parade of gaffes by Caribou Barbie, who would have predicted Indiana and North Carolina?

If you're not out there, you have zero chance.  That goes for both parties.  You can't convert an unwinnable race to a potentially winnable one by writing it off entirely year after year.

For the Democrats this year, any race they think would normally be within 15 points will be worth running a candidate in.  But they should run one in every district even if it's completely hopeless.

Ditto the Republicans.

Ditto the Greens.

Ditto the Libertarians.

I take it as axiomatic that the cure for everything wrong with democracy is more democracy.  What the GOP should be doing in this race is always running someone anyway, and then rewarding the sacrificial lamb with... well, whatever.  A position within the state party organization.  A guaranteed seat as a delegate to the next presidential party convention.  If the sacrificial lamb does better than expected relative to electoral conditions that year, reward them with backing in a race they have a serious chance to win.

By leaving the race wide open, by not fielding an 'establishment' candidate, this is by definition a self-inflicted wound, especially since Jones has been a thorn in their side for years.  I don't think the Illinois Republican Party are Nazis.  But they have allowed themselves to be associated with the American Nazi Party through their own indifference, laziness, weakness... take your pick.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on March 21, 2018, 08:44:43 PM
What was that catchy phrase attributed to Nepolion?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
By all means proceed Mr Jones and please take your party down with you. 
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 22, 2018, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 21, 2018, 08:44:43 PM
What was that catchy phrase attributed to Nepolion?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
By all means proceed Mr Jones and please take your party down with you. 
The GOP didn't want Jones, but they didn't have enough brains to realize he was going to be labeled the GOP candidate if they didn't put up one of their own.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on March 22, 2018, 01:03:39 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 22, 2018, 11:36:25 AM
The GOP didn't want Jones, but they didn't have enough brains to realize he was going to be labeled the GOP candidate if they didn't put up one of their own.
Exactly.  It's an unforced error.  Jones isn't going to appear on the ballot as 'Unendorsed Republican', he's going to be on there as 'Republican'.  And unless the state and local GOP whips up a voter education campaign to ensure everyone knows Jones is running without their blessing, Jones can (and probably will) run as the Republican nominee, with or without their endorsement.

If they were smart... well, if they were smart, they wouldn't have let them get themselves in this position in the first place.  But if they were smart, and if they still have time to recruit someone under their local candidacy laws, they should get someone to run as an independent with Republican endorsement.  That's the best they can do to undermine Jones.

Unfortunately for them, it does nothing about having a de facto head of the national party who's gone out of his way to provide cover for racists and bigots and thereby made people like Jones feel comfortable running under their banner.

Of course, their nightmare scenario is the Orange Disaster Area butting in and legitimizing Jones' candidacy.  Well, their nightmare scenario, my "I'll make the popcorn" moment...
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Jason78 on March 22, 2018, 05:08:21 PM
I thought all american politics was right wing.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 22, 2018, 05:23:13 PM
Quote from: Jason78 on March 22, 2018, 05:08:21 PM
I thought all american politics was right wing.
You need to look at the global political spectrum. IIRC that puts both major US parties on the right of center.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Jason78 on March 22, 2018, 08:36:00 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 22, 2018, 05:23:13 PM
You need to look at the global political spectrum. IIRC that puts both major US parties on the far right of center.

FTFY
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 02:28:24 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
So you're telling me the GOP has stopped him from running under them at every chance they could, and publicly disavowed him a dozen times, but due to circumstances other than the GOP's approval of him, he is running this time - and you think that says anything about the GOP other than that they don't fucking like him?

(https://i.imgur.com/y1xoTLE.gif)


nice spin there m8.

Your graphic is too annoying, so I will ignore your post.  Yeah, SHOCK, people can do that.  You want to get your post paid attention to?  Don't be so visually obnoxious all the time.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 23, 2018, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: Jason78 on March 22, 2018, 08:36:00 PM
FTFY
(https://img00.deviantart.net/9f66/i/2012/126/b/c/ravajava__s_guide_to__the_political_spectrum_by_ravajava-d4yqibj.jpg)
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 05:50:17 PM
Your conclusion that it's stupid is not one that I take issue with. What I take issue with is any attempt to spin this as support for Arthur - because that is a contention that cannot be necessitated logically from this information.

Silence in the face of an unwanted but likely successful candidate sure to vote their way is assent.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Munch on March 23, 2018, 04:13:55 PM
I'm curious where Antifa fits on that chart.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 21, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
So you're telling me the GOP has stopped him from running under them at every chance they could, and publicly disavowed him a dozen times, but due to circumstances other than the GOP's approval of him, he is running this time - and you think that says anything about the GOP other than that they don't fucking like him?

(https://i.imgur.com/y1xoTLE.gif)


nice spin there m8.

And just a request.  Please stop the annoying visual.  It is absolutely your right, but also absolutely annoying.  Makes me want to not read your posts, ya know?  And I want to.  You have something to say, but you could chase me away from it.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 23, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
John Bolton being the potential replacement for McMaster?  That is pretty Dick Cheney of the Don ;-(  It is looking more like the Don in the White House is like Don Corleone in temperament.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Shiranu on March 23, 2018, 07:31:03 PM
Quote from: Munch on March 23, 2018, 04:13:55 PM
I'm curious where Antifa fits on that chart.

Since they are not a government party, nor an organization with set ideology but rather factions under one umbrella name, pretty hard to say.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Unbeliever on March 23, 2018, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 23, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
John Bolton being the potential replacement for McMaster?  That is pretty Dick Cheney of the Don ;-(  It is looking more like the Don in the White House is like Don Corleone in temperament.
Yeah, it looks like our Fearless Leader is setting up a war cabinet. ;-(

Bolton is all for a pre-emptive first strike, so we're likely in for a hell of a time.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 23, 2018, 10:41:40 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 23, 2018, 07:49:18 PM
Yeah, it looks like our Fearless Leader is setting up a war cabinet. ;-(

Bolton is all for a pre-emptive first strike, so we're likely in for a hell of a time.

Limited nuclear exchange ... 20 million dead in N America, 40 million dead in Europe (including Russian part of Europe).  I absolutely don't approve, but no, Hillary was a war monger too, it was set up in 2016 so only warmongers were the final candidates.  Blame Bernie taking bribes and not fighting DNC corruption (he was Hillary's "beard").  Bernie might make full peace with Cuba, but that would be better than millions dead.  I don't think Cuban communism is an existential threat to the US.  If it was an existential threat, then blast away ... but it isn't happening, not even in N Korea.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 23, 2018, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: Munch on March 23, 2018, 04:13:55 PM
I'm curious where Antifa fits on that chart.

Antifa is useful idiots ... where is China?  That is a billion times more important.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Trump/Cheney/Stalin/Boltin wants a war, a war we will get,  Stock up your omb shelter, pack your knapsacks and decide where to survive.

I.m downwind of Washington DC.  If we get bombed, that's target #1.  My only chance to survive THAT is to head for the lower Appallacians. And ya know something?  I won't abandon the cats.  I may need the mice they catch.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 24, 2018, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Trump/Cheney/Stalin/Boltin wants a war, a war we will get,  Stock up your omb shelter, pack your knapsacks and decide where to survive.

I.m downwind of Washington DC.  If we get bombed, that's target #1.  My only chance to survive THAT is to head for the lower Appallacians. And ya know something?  I won't abandon the cats.  I may need the mice they catch.

Do as you will, survive or not.  This is true every day, not just in Apocalypse.  Apocalypse is always Now.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 24, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Trump/Cheney/Stalin/Boltin wants a war, a war we will get,  Stock up your omb shelter, pack your knapsacks and decide where to survive.

I.m downwind of Washington DC.  If we get bombed, that's target #1.  My only chance to survive THAT is to head for the lower Appallacians. And ya know something?  I won't abandon the cats.  I may need the mice they catch.
Alas, Babylon.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 24, 2018, 01:06:58 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 24, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
Alas, Babylon.

Babylon on the Potomac, on the Thames, on the Seine, on the Tiber ... all great whores.  If they keep this up, then someday ... they will be like Nineveh and Babylon.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Hydra009 on March 24, 2018, 02:57:34 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Trump/Cheney/Stalin/Boltin wants a war, a war we will get,  Stock up your omb shelter, pack your knapsacks and decide where to survive.
I plan on checking out Atlanta, then head to DC.  Maybe get some sorghum seeds.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Unbeliever on March 24, 2018, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 23, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Trump/Cheney/Stalin/Boltin wants a war, a war we will get,  Stock up your omb shelter, pack your knapsacks and decide where to survive.
I'm not at all sure I'd want to live in the aftermath of such a war, I think I'd rather just go to my eternal rest.

I think the reason the ultra-wealthy want to have a major war is to decrease the number of poor people on the planet - people like me. I'm sure they believe that all of us poor people are the ones who are ruining their planet, so getting rid of us would enable them to live even better than they do now. They won't need working class people any more, since they'll have the technology to replace them, and robots don't go on strike for higher wages, or better working conditions.

So I fully expect them to use war as a means of population control, as they've done in the past. Of course, they never say that's their reason, but only because they don't want to divulge their true motivation.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Draconic Aiur on March 25, 2018, 04:34:09 PM
When they label liberals as snowflakes and stuff their pockets on NRA's bribery money.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 25, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
When they do Public Service Announcements on NRA TV
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on March 25, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 24, 2018, 03:13:40 PM
I'm not at all sure I'd want to live in the aftermath of such a war, I think I'd rather just go to my eternal rest.

I think the reason the ultra-wealthy want to have a major war is to decrease the number of poor people on the planet - people like me. I'm sure they believe that all of us poor people are the ones who are ruining their planet, so getting rid of us would enable them to live even better than they do now. They won't need working class people any more, since they'll have the technology to replace them, and robots don't go on strike for higher wages, or better working conditions.

So I fully expect them to use war as a means of population control, as they've done in the past. Of course, they never say that's their reason, but only because they don't want to divulge their true motivation.

I've seriously considered that, but the challenge of recreating society also interests me.  I'm willing to die naturally in my old age, but I'm not there yet, ya know?  As strange as it might seem, I've read enough hard si-fi that might have actually taught me a few things.  And I don't mean survivalist tactics of hoew to kill everyone near you.  I mean reconstructing things if the world got ruined.

I think I could be part of what started it again, with sensible changes.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on March 25, 2018, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 25, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
I've seriously considered that, but the challenge of recreating society also interests me.  I'm willing to die naturally in my old age, but I'm not there yet, ya know?  As strange as it might seem, I've read enough hard si-fi that might have actually taught me a few things.  And I don't mean survivalist tactics of hoew to kill everyone near you.  I mean reconstructing things if the world got ruined.

I think I could be part of what started it again, with sensible changes.

Who is John Galt?  Yes, remake the world in your own image ...
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 12:28:09 AM
There's a reason Nazis are Republicans. They both share similar agendas, but most Republicans are more wishwashy about it. Republicans hate minority groups. They want to prevent them from getting into the country, they want to silence their peaceful protests, they want to take away government programs which primarily benefit them, they want to take away their rights.

The difference is that Republicans like to pretend that they're not motivated by hate because they don't want to think of themselves as hateful. That would hurt their self image. So they end up talking out of both sides of their mouths. Often times they'll try to act like they're somehow doing minority groups a favor by actively working against them. Nazis, on the other hand, are more consistent with their rhetoric and don't shy away from their true intentions.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:21:02 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 12:28:09 AM
There's a reason Nazis are Republicans. They both share similar agendas, but most Republicans are more wishwashy about it. Republicans hate minority groups. They want to prevent them from getting into the country, they want to silence their peaceful protests, they want to take away government programs which primarily benefit them, they want to take away their rights.

The difference is that Republicans like to pretend that they're not motivated by hate because they don't want to think of themselves as hateful. That would hurt their self image. So they end up talking out of both sides of their mouths. Often times they'll try to act like they're somehow doing minority groups a favor by actively working against them. Nazis, on the other hand, are more consistent with their rhetoric and don't shy away from their true intentions.

source?
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 05:42:42 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 12:28:09 AM
There's a reason Nazis are Republicans. They both share similar agendas, but most Republicans are more wishwashy about it. Republicans hate minority groups. They want to prevent them from getting into the country, they want to silence their peaceful protests, they want to take away government programs which primarily benefit them, they want to take away their rights.

The difference is that Republicans like to pretend that they're not motivated by hate because they don't want to think of themselves as hateful. That would hurt their self image. So they end up talking out of both sides of their mouths. Often times they'll try to act like they're somehow doing minority groups a favor by actively working against them. Nazis, on the other hand, are more consistent with their rhetoric and don't shy away from their true intentions.

The Democrats love minorities, but not for the right reasons.  They want to buy their votes, e.g. both legal minorities, and illegal migrants who can get a driver's license in California.  Of course that is what politicians do, they buy votes (but they are only supposed to do this with citizens).

"More than a million undocumented immigrants have received California driver's licenses from the State of California, the Department of Motor Vehicles announced Wednesday. The state has been issuing licenses to the immigrants since 2015."

Not a photo ID, but a driver's license.  What is nullification?  When a lower government entity works directly against Federal laws.

Nazis are some Germans, not all, from 1920 - 1945.  Americans aren't Nazis.  We are fascists.  We have been fascists since we became industrialized (we went from more than ... to less than ... 50% agriculture circa 1900).

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
― Benito Mussolini

Do Democrats oppose big corporations?  A Communist eliminates corporate power, they don't partner with it.  Both parties support big corporations, they are both fascist.  Yes, Democrats are more devious about their fascism.  Republicans are more direct.  A difference that doesn't address the problem.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:21:02 AM
source?

Every Republican who has ever started a sentence with, "I'm not a racist, but..."
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on April 09, 2018, 12:57:58 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 10:59:33 AM
Every Republican who has ever started a sentence with, "I'm not a racist, but..."
Let's not forget every Republican who ever voted for a voter ID law under the fig leaf of stopping non-existent voter fraud but the real effect was to make it difficult for African-Americans to vote, and every Republican who ever complained about 'welfare fraud' by miming patting a pregnant midriff and saying in a stereotypical 'mammy' voice, 'Yep, got me one more check' or words to that effect (I have seen this done personally).

Oh, and let's not forget the party's explicit policy of appealing to Southern racists in the wake of the Civil Rights Movement, the 'Southern Strategy'.  When push came to shove, Democrats repudiated their racistsâ€"and Republicans opened their arms to them.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 10:59:33 AM
Every Republican who has ever started a sentence with, "I'm not a racist, but..."

Every Democrat before about 1980 who said "I'm not a racist, but ..."

Americans are assholes.  Get over ourselves already.  Stop partisan virtue signaling.  Admit you would sell your mother to a whorehouse for an iPhoneX.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Unbeliever on April 09, 2018, 01:16:54 PM
Quote from: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Every Democrat before about 1980 who said "I'm not a racist, but ..."

Americans are assholes.  Get over ourselves already.  Stop partisan virtue signaling.  Admit you would sell your mother to a whorehouse for an iPhoneX.
Damn, I didn't know I could get an iPhoneX in trade for my mother! Now I really wish I had a mother I could trade!
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 01:08:56 PM
Every Democrat before about 1980 who said "I'm not a racist, but ..."

Americans are assholes.  Get over ourselves already.  Stop partisan virtue signaling.  Admit you would sell your mother to a whorehouse for an iPhoneX.

How many decades ago was the 80s again?
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 04:33:53 PM
It's a surreal feeling when I visit the one of the few places I go to that still have users who identify with either of the american parties. Stuck where 90% of the rest are, squabbling amongst each other precisely as the parties want you too, "I'm a republican/democrat and I'm sure glad I'm not as stupid at the democrat/republicans!"
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
What I find surreal is how anyone can look at Trump and the Nazis and day, "Nope. I see nothing wrong with this. Both parties are equally as bad."
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
What I find surreal is how anyone can look at Trump and the Nazis and day, "Nope. I see nothing wrong with this. Both parties are equally as bad."

Do you think you're the first person in history to demonise your political opponents so you can justify a pure and malicious hatred of them?

Though they're not equally as bad, in fact. democrats are magnitudes worse than republicans. Both parties are for unquestioning retards, certainly, and still the preceding is true.

Judging politics is easy. Do you want to grow the government? Bad - you are an authoritarian retard. Do you want small government? Good - liberty of the individual must be preserved under any just system of government.

The democrats are the more oppressive authoritarians relative to the republicans.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM
Do you think you're the first person in history to demonise your political opponents so you can justify a pure and malicious hatred of them?

Though they're not equally as bad, in fact. democrats are magnitudes worse than republicans. Both parties are for unquestioning retards, certainly, and still the preceding is true.

Judging politics is easy. Do you want to grow the government? Bad - you are an authoritarian retard. Do you want small government? Good - liberty of the individual must be preserved under any just system of government.

The democrats are the more oppressive authoritarians relative to the republicans.

Oh, you're right. I'm sure those Nazis are really nice people once you get to know them. Democrats are more oppressive authoritarians? Excuse me? Which side is using religion as a basis for political decisions? Which one wants to make gay marriage and abortion illegal? Which one wants to teach Creationism in public school? Give me a fucking break.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Hydra009 on April 09, 2018, 07:04:25 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM
The democrats are the more oppressive authoritarians relative to the republicans.
lol, keep telling yourself that.  Maybe one day, you'll fool somebody else as badly as you've fooled yourself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/10/how-authoritarianism-is-shaping-american-politics-and-its-not-just-about-trump/
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 06:39:08 PM
Oh, you're right. I'm sure those Nazis are really nice people once you get to know them. Democrats are more oppressive authoritarians? Excuse me? Which side is using religion as a basis for political decisions? Which one wants to make gay marriage and abortion illegal? Which one wants to teach Creationism in public school? Give me a fucking break.

Some republicans want to do all or some of those things.

And yet still democrats have bigger plans for government.

Also stop calling republicans nazis it makes you look like a literal retard.

Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 09, 2018, 07:04:25 PM
lol, keep telling yourself that.  Maybe one day, you'll fool somebody else as badly as you've fooled yourself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/10/how-authoritarianism-is-shaping-american-politics-and-its-not-just-about-trump/

In your own words tell me what the underlying message was of that article. Before you do, look up the word, 'equivocation.'
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 08:03:37 PM
Gilgamesh, I don't know if you remember, but when I first got here I came as fresh out of faith. I no longer Christian, but I was still sympathetic to those who were. My politics were still right of center until Trump, when I'd seen the Republican party for what it really was. It wasn't Democrats who turned me against Republicans. Republicans turned me against Republicans. If you really think Democrats are worse than Republicans, you clearly don't live in the South, where Republicans have power, and where racists proudly fly their Confederate flags in their front yards.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 08:10:43 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 08:03:37 PM
If you really think Democrats are worse than Republicans, you clearly don't live in the South, where Republicans have power, and where racists proudly fly their Confederate flags in their front yards.

Rather, one can acknowledge braindead cousin-fucking redneck retards, and one can acknowledge actors of insidiousness and subversiveness casting their influence from within the bright ivory towers of 'moral' and 'intellectual' authority, and come to a conclusion that the latter is more harmful - in large part precisely because they are more influential
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Hydra009 on April 09, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
In your own words tell me what the underlying message was of that article. Before you do, look up the word, 'equivocation.'
Or...wild idea, hear me out...you could just read a couple paragraphs.  Or more, if you're feeling up to it.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 09:22:49 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 08:10:43 PM
Rather, one can acknowledge braindead cousin-fucking redneck retards, and one can acknowledge actors of insidiousness and subversiveness casting their influence from within the bright ivory towers of 'moral' and 'intellectual' authority, and come to a conclusion that the latter is more harmful - in large part precisely because they are more influential

Democrats are the most influential? What country are you living in? Which party has the most seats in government? Which one has the majority in all three branches of the federal government? And Christian fundamentalists, who are the most powerful religious groups in America, which party do they almost unanimously approve of while considering the other to literally be serving Satan? Do you live in some fantasy world?
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 09, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
Or...wild idea, hear me out...you could just read a couple paragraphs.  Or more, if you're feeling up to it.

I read through it. It was a skim. That I didn't read it wasn't the basis for my request (and I did read it.)

So if you feel so inclined, fulfill it. It may lead to a learning experience.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
What I find surreal is how anyone can look at Trump and the Nazis and day, "Nope. I see nothing wrong with this. Both parties are equally as bad."

There is no equality.  Both being bad, doesn't make them equal.  They are bad in different ways.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:47:56 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM
Do you think you're the first person in history to demonise your political opponents so you can justify a pure and malicious hatred of them?

Though they're not equally as bad, in fact. democrats are magnitudes worse than republicans. Both parties are for unquestioning retards, certainly, and still the preceding is true.

Judging politics is easy. Do you want to grow the government? Bad - you are an authoritarian retard. Do you want small government? Good - liberty of the individual must be preserved under any just system of government.

The democrats are the more oppressive authoritarians relative to the republicans.

Democrats .. once slavers, always slavers.

Republicans .. once landlords, always landlords.

Fuck them both to hell (ideologically, not personally).
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:49:35 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 08:03:37 PM
Gilgamesh, I don't know if you remember, but when I first got here I came as fresh out of faith. I no longer Christian, but I was still sympathetic to those who were. My politics were still right of center until Trump, when I'd seen the Republican party for what it really was. It wasn't Democrats who turned me against Republicans. Republicans turned me against Republicans. If you really think Democrats are worse than Republicans, you clearly don't live in the South, where Republicans have power, and where racists proudly fly their Confederate flags in their front yards.

It took you that long to realize what fucks the Republicans are?  Been out of any sympathy for them since 86.  Yes, that long ago, we can't all be Generation Z ;-)
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 09:22:49 PM
Democrats are the most influential? What country are you living in? Which party has the most seats in government? Which one has the majority in all three branches of the federal government? And Christian fundamentalists, who are the most powerful religious groups in America, which party do they almost unanimously approve of while considering the other to literally be serving Satan? Do you live in some fantasy world?

You can thank 8 years of Bill Clinton and 8 years of Barak Obama ... for destroying the Democrat Party.  It was such a shell of its former self, Hillary could take it over for $29.95 in change from the Clinton Crime Group.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:58:08 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 09, 2018, 06:39:08 PM
Oh, you're right. I'm sure those Nazis are really nice people once you get to know them. Democrats are more oppressive authoritarians? Excuse me? Which side is using religion as a basis for political decisions? Which one wants to make gay marriage and abortion illegal? Which one wants to teach Creationism in public school? Give me a fucking break.

Yeah, I can imagine, that liberals see this "in their mind's eye" every day in their own town ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSvS4LY26Yg

But I don't think so, even though I am very sensitive to the issue of Nazis.  I personally support gay rights (not that pronoun thing) ... and would be concerned, if I were an African-American, if I had KKK marching in my town like that, like they used to.  But it is 1920 every year in some people's minds, and every town is Mobile Alabama.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 10, 2018, 12:33:21 AM
Quote from: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:49:35 PM
It took you that long to realize what fucks the Republicans are?  Been out of any sympathy for them since 86.  Yes, that long ago, we can't all be Generation Z ;-)

That long? Dude, I'm still in my twenties. I'd only moved out of my parents' house a few years ago. I still have to listen to my aunts talk about how Obama is the literal anti-Christ every time we get together, and I grew up constantly hearing that kind of shit. No joke, one of my aunts seriously said once that that word "bomb" was in Obama's name, and that that was a sign that he was an evil Muslim.

I wasn't even alive in 1986, and I really don't care what the two parties were like back then. The world has changed a lot since then. It drives me nuts when Republicans say, "Well, Democrats were the pro-slavery ones around the time of the Civil War." I mean, seriously? If the best you can do to justify your own party's racism is to point to the racism of another party nearly 200 years ago, that's pretty pathetic. I care about today. Are there racist Democrats today? Definitely. Are there racist Republicans today? Oh yeah. Is there an equal ratio of racists between both parties? Not even close.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Blackleaf on April 10, 2018, 12:45:05 AM
Quote from: Baruch on April 09, 2018, 10:46:21 PM
There is no equality.  Both being bad, doesn't make them equal.  They are bad in different ways.

Maybe one day we'll have a better choice. Maybe Americans will grow a brain, stop voting Republican, and let the party either die or make dramatic changes in order to survive. But until that happens, when the given choice is between the party of overzealous SJWs college students and the party of racists, homophobes, science deniers, Bible thumpers, and Nazis, I'm going to go with the former.

And no, Gilgamesh, I am not going to stop bringing up Republican Nazis. It's not up to the party to choose who supports them. If the Republicans don't want the support of Nazis, they should change their policies so they are no longer attractive to Nazis. Or, I dunno, maybe they could start by publicly condemning the acts of Nazis instead of trying to pretend they don't exist, or claiming that those counter-protesting the Nazis are "just as bad."
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on April 10, 2018, 02:32:28 AM
I was Republican in 1964.  There were progressive Republicans in those days.  Not now for sure...
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 10, 2018, 05:40:51 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on April 10, 2018, 02:32:28 AM
I was Republican in 1964.  There were progressive Republicans in those days.  Not now for sure...

Correct, but don't confuse the youth.  Anyone older than 30 (as we said in the 60s) is irrelevant.  If you don't have an iPhoneX you are hopelessly un-cool.

Because of a litmus test issue (gay rights) ... a party that seems to endorse those rights (and every party is duplicitous) can do whatever it wants.  Not cool.  Lenin was the wave of the future, in 1920.  Capitalism created WW I ... so therefore we must stop war, by all becoming Leninists.  The 450,000 Russians executed by the Cheka in 1917-1920 were a necessary sacrifice.

And no, I won't stop bringing up that the Democrat party is the Communist Party for this generation.  Utopia is just around the corner, and once the Revolution of the Resistance (most of those were French communists) wins, the State will wither ...

This is even more true in England with Labor and Corbin.  Unfortunately what happens in England, doesn't stay in England.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on April 10, 2018, 10:37:12 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on April 10, 2018, 02:32:28 AM
I was Republican in 1964.  There were progressive Republicans in those days.  Not now for sure...
Yeah, you used to have Republicans like John Chafee, John Anderson, Lowell Weicker, Nelson Rockefeller, Jacob Javits, Margaret Chase Smith... even Prescott Bush, George Sr's father, who was a long-time supporter of Planned Parenthood, and George Romney, father of Mitt Romney.

Nowadays, what they used to call 'Rockefeller Republicans' are called 'RINOs' -- Republicans In Name Only.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on April 12, 2018, 10:44:50 AM
Well, quelle surprise, the GOP has attracted another neo-Nazi.  This one's running for the seat that Paul Ryan's just abandoned (https://www.theroot.com/meet-the-white-nationalist-most-likely-to-take-over-for-1825180770).  Let's see if the Wisconsin GOP has learned from their neighbors to the south and ensure he doesn't get past the primary.  And he's already raised $160,000 for the race, in comparison to the other Repub in the primary race, who's only got $4000 for his campaign so far.

Again, the GOP isn't recruiting these characters... but they are attracting them.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Baruch on April 12, 2018, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: trdsf on April 12, 2018, 10:44:50 AM
Well, quelle suprise, the GOP has attracted another neo-Nazi.  This one's running for the seat that Paul Ryan's just abandoned (https://www.theroot.com/meet-the-white-nationalist-most-likely-to-take-over-for-1825180770).  Let's see if the Wisconsin GOP has learned from their neighbors to the south and ensure he doesn't get past the primary.  And he's already raised $160,000 for the race, in comparison to the other Repub in the primary race, who's only got $4000 for his campaign so far.

Again, the GOP isn't recruiting these characters... but they are attracting them.

Many new D party candidates are to the Right also.  The rats know where the food is.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: trdsf on April 12, 2018, 02:05:15 PM
Researching a little further - the Wisconsin GOP says they have "returned or donated (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/13/gop-returns-dues-paul-ryan-challenger-top-leaders-denounce-paul-nehlen-racist/334432002/)" his county party membership dues, and issued a statement that he's "not a Republican".  They didn't say who they donated them to, which is troublingâ€"and also means they've effectively accepted his dues money anyway, since by donating it they've put it to their own use.

They also don't say anything about the fact that Nehlen had backing from the Orange Disaster Area himself in '16, during the brief period Ryan had a spine and wouldn't endorse the party's nominee.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on April 12, 2018, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: trdsf on April 12, 2018, 02:05:15 PM
Researching a little further - the Wisconsin GOP says they have "returned or donated (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/13/gop-returns-dues-paul-ryan-challenger-top-leaders-denounce-paul-nehlen-racist/334432002/)" his county party membership dues, and issued a statement that he's "not a Republican".  They didn't say who they donated them to, which is troublingâ€"and also means they've effectively accepted his dues money anyway, since by donating it they've put it to their own use.

They also don't say anything about the fact that Nehlen had backing from the Orange Disaster Area himself in '16, during the brief period Ryan had a spine and wouldn't endorse the party's nominee.

I think the interesting thing is that the local GOP folks are starting to reject such candidates that they used to applaud and support.  The extremists might win for a while, but without party help, it will be harder for them in the future.

I don't want to get too optimistic here.  Getting BOTH parties back toward the center is not going tom be certain OR easy.  But it IS possible that anger from the edges could cause enough dissatisfaction at the recent election results that more centrist candidates have a chance.  Lamb is a good example.

I don't know about anyone else, but a basically professional and functioning government seems like a pretty good idea to me...
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Hydra009 on April 12, 2018, 10:39:21 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2018, 10:12:39 PMI don't know about anyone else, but a basically professional and functioning government seems like a pretty good idea to me...
But I heard on Infowars that career politicians are godless atheists who worship satan and that government is intrinsically evil (with the exception of Republican governments, which are always great) therefore, we should be glad to have a dysfunctional administration.  It's the little guy fighting the corrupt system.  If anything, we should be giving Trump medals for being so bad.
Title: Re: How you know the GOP has moved too far to the right
Post by: Cavebear on April 12, 2018, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 12, 2018, 10:39:21 PM
But I heard on Infowars that career politicians are godless atheists who worship satan and that government is intrinsically evil (with the exception of Republican governments, which are always great) therefore, we should be glad to have a dysfunctional administration.  It's the little guy fighting the corrupt system.  If anything, we should be giving Trump medals for being so bad.

Well, that is easy to dismiss.  I'm an atheist dedicated to democracy in any fair fight between sides.  I completely accept democracy as the best system for governance.

On the other hand, if you NEED a benign dictator, I would be a pretty good one.  And I would work to restore democracy.  I'd be  a democracy-oriented MULE!