Do you think Adolph Hitler is locked in hell forever for the killing of the Jewish during World War II? Isn't the duration of time in hell assigned by how wicked you have been (I think this is kind of Buddhist)? So I am thinking for how many people Hitler killed, he would be locked in hell forever. `
Why do you think there is a Hell?
Hitler is dead. There is no credible evidence that Hell exists. You may get a larger variety of responses in a Christian forum.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Do you think Adolph Hitler is locked in hell forever for the killing of the Jewish during World War II? Isn't the duration of time in hell assigned by how wicked you have been (I think this is kind of Buddhist)? So I am thinking for how many people Hitler killed, he would be locked in hell forever. `
There is no after-life ... so no. no pre-life either. Hell and Heaven are states of being, in the present ... not things of the past or future. Only the present exists. The past and future aren't epistemological objects ... they are emotional commitments. Regret and pride in the past. Hope and fear in the future.
Yes, in Zoroastrianism, Hell is temporary, based on the need to expiate sin (in linear time). This is similar to their Hindu cousins, who have the need to expiate karma, which traps you in your current life (cyclical time). Only very few Christians have argued for temporary Hell (but then they invented Purgatory to weasel their way thru the question). And Jews and Muslims believe traditionally in permanent Hell/Heaven. Abrahamics think in linear time. It is ontologically argued, that in eternity, there can be no change, change only happens in temporal time. So once you are in eternity, whatever your status is then, it is permanent.
Nell, you seem to get fiction and reality all mixed up. Heaven, hell, jesus, god---all are fictions.
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
And you know this?
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
And you 'know' this how????
It is Adolf, not Adolph.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Do you think Adolph Hitler is locked in hell forever for the killing of the Jewish during World War II? Isn't the duration of time in hell assigned by how wicked you have been (I think this is kind of Buddhist)? So I am thinking for how many people Hitler killed, he would be locked in hell forever. `
No, I think Hitler has melted back into the oblivion of non-existence from which he emerged, as do we all upon ceasing to live.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 10, 2018, 01:40:56 PM
No, I think Hitler has melted back into the oblivion of non-existence from which he emerged, as do we all upon ceasing to live.
According to MLK, if there is nothing in your life, for which you would sacrifice your life, then you haven't lived. I hope in spite of nihilism, that you have lived.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
What do the sinners get, exactly?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 10, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
What do the sinners get, exactly?
Losers on game shows usually get "lovely parting gifts" and an electronic version of the game they lost at (so they can practice for next time) ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2018, 02:43:41 PM
According to MLK, if there is nothing in your life, for which you would sacrifice your life, then you haven't lived. I hope in spite of nihilism, that you have lived.
I've been sacrificing my life every day for decades to the tobacco corporations.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 10, 2018, 03:01:09 PM
I've been sacrificing my life every day for decades to the tobacco corporations.
I quit cold turkey in 1988. October 1st, 7 AM. My friends took me out to the Mojave with two weeks food and water and an emergency radio. Day Two I was looking for coyotes to beat up. Haven't smoked since.
A little tough love, huh? Good for you, I wish I'd been able to do something similar. Any time I'm in a position where it isn't possible to get any tobacco, I don't even jones for it, but if there's a chance of getting any, I can't help but find it and smoke it. I've heard that nicotine is the most addictive substance known to man, and I sure do believe it!
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 10, 2018, 03:32:02 PM
A little tough love, huh? Good for you, I wish I'd been able to do something similar. Any time I'm in a position where it isn't possible to get any tobacco, I don't even jones for it, but if there a chance of getting any, I can't help but find it and smoke it. I've heard that nicotine is the most addictive substance know to men, and I sure do believer it!
I had to take 270 mg of oxycontin a day at one point in my life, didn't get addicted to that. The tobacco had it's claws in my mind. I beat it by being more stubborn than it was. "I'm stronger than this addiction!!!!"
There is no Hell, so Hitler cannot be burning in it. There is no evidence that Hell exists. The only way to observe Hell, if it does exist, is to die. And at that point, you wouldn't be able to come back and tell about it.
Hitler firmly believed he was doing the right thing.....how can one be punished if one firmly believes they are doing good? Such are gods.
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2018, 09:32:43 PM
Hitler firmly believed he was doing the right thing.....how can one be punished if one firmly believes they are doing good? Such are gods.
Further proof that confirmation bias is all powerful, even if it doesn't last 1000 years.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Do you think Adolph Hitler is locked in hell forever for the killing of the Jewish during World War II?
Atheist here. So no I don't.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Isn't the duration of time in hell assigned by how wicked you have been (I think this is kind of Buddhist)?
[Citation Needed]
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
So I am thinking for how many people Hitler killed, he would be locked in hell forever. `
Do you think that hell is an appropriate punishment?
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2018, 07:34:29 AM
And their 1000 year dictionary.
Well, in the USA where everybody you don't like is literally Hitler, at least get the name right.
Adoph is French, as in Adolph Menjou. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe_Menjou)
Hitler is safely nestled in heaven if he accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior before he died. That's how it works.
Quote from: Mermaid on March 11, 2018, 10:39:36 AM
Hitler is safely nestled in heaven if he accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior before he died. That's how it works.
He was a pagan Catholic doing God's/Odin's work.
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2018, 11:01:30 AM
He was a pagan Catholic doing God's/Odin's work.
Oh, I'm sure he was forgiven for his sins by at least one Catholic priest--as were all the Nazis who were funneled to South America with the church's help.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 11, 2018, 11:20:42 AM
Oh, I'm sure he was forgiven for his sins by at least one Catholic priest--as were all the Nazis who were funneled to South America with the church's help.
Well at least they weren't funneled to Valhalla, and given Thor's hammer to use ;-) The basic barbarity of a semi-historical TV show like Vikings .. gives some insight into what the Germans were channeling. Odin wasn't exactly the most ethical supreme god.
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2018, 12:40:41 PM
Well at least they weren't funneled to Valhalla, and given Thor's hammer to use ;-) The basic barbarity of a semi-historical TV show like Vikings .. gives some insight into what the Germans were channeling. Odin wasn't exactly the most ethical supreme god.
And just what 'supreme' god is ethical???
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 11, 2018, 01:07:22 PM
And just what 'supreme' god is ethical???
Well, Odin
Source: Marvel Universe
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
Just not in any way you can demonstrate.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
Cool story, bruh.
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2018, 09:32:43 PMHitler firmly believed he was doing the right thing
The above is the tinder on which the great D&D alignment debate burned skyhigh.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 11, 2018, 01:58:40 PM
The above is the tinder on which the great D&D alignment debate burned skyhigh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell, and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you). There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
"Hell is real, la-la-la, Hell is real, la-la-la"
(https://3lrofj3556kl9zu0p27yma51-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/head-in-sand.png)
I've said before, if hell did exist we'd figure out how to tap it for unlimited thermal energy.
As my physics teacher taught, either Hell isn't hot, or there are no physicists in Hell.
The idea of bad people burning in hell came from the Persians. The Jews were conquered by Persia and absorbed from the them ideas of Zoroastrianism, including both heaven and hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPNRo1-uS8
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2018, 06:32:23 PM
The idea of bad people burning in hell came from the Persians. The Jews were conquered by Persia and absorbed from the them ideas of Zoroastrianism, including both heaven and hell.
Oh no no no, everything in the Bible came from God, not stolen from other cultures and religions while Christianity attempted to bulldoze over them, that could never have happened!
Oh, of course you're right - what in God's name could I have been thinking!?
;-D
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on March 11, 2018, 06:21:38 PM
As my physics teacher taught, either Hell isn't hot, or there are no physicists in Hell.
Technically per Norse belief, it would be cold, at absolute zero. Dr Onnes was the physicist who specialized in that Hell ;-)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 10, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
I quit cold turkey in 1988. October 1st, 7 AM. My friends took me out to the Mojave with two weeks food and water and an emergency radio. Day Two I was looking for coyotes to beat up. Haven't smoked since.
I had stopped smoking for 4 months. My friend and I went camping to a primitive area. He wanted to quit smoking and had 2 cigarettes left and wanted to get rid of them. He offerred me one. I smoked it. I should have just thrown it in the lake... I couldn't wait to get back to civilization and have another.
He is no longer my friend.
That was a very mean thing he did... And I think he knew it!
Quote from: Mermaid on March 11, 2018, 10:39:36 AM
Hitler is safely nestled in heaven if he accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior before he died. That's how it works.
Anne Frank on the other hand...
Presuppositions are fun pastimes.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 10, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
I quit cold turkey in 1988. October 1st, 7 AM. My friends took me out to the Mojave with two weeks food and water and an emergency radio. Day Two I was looking for coyotes to beat up. Haven't smoked since.
I quit smoking sometime in November 2004, I remember vividly how one early morning I woke up with a tobacco cough that was so bad I thought I was choking. I had a carton of cigarettes which I smoked, but I have never bought myself a pack of smokes for myself since. I have, on occasion smoked a cig while drunk, but that has been few and far between. But for the most part I don't smoke. I think I have probably smoked about 4 or 5 cigarettes since 2004.
The biggest motivator for me to keep off the weed with the experience of quitting. I knew that if I started smoking again I'd have to go through that again, and there was no fucking way I was going to double down on that shit.
Today, at 66.6 years old I have emphysema and heart disease. If I was still smoking I'd be dead right now. As it was I gave my lung 30 years to repair themselves before the nasty shit set in. The sooner you quit the longer you'll live, at least in this frame of reference.
I guess Hitler can be locked in hell forever, but at his own will. I found this quote by C. S. Lewis, "I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside" (The Problem of Pain, 130)
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 13, 2018, 08:46:23 AM
Presuppositions are fun pastimes.
I quit smoking sometime in November 2004, I remember vividly how one early morning I woke up with a tobacco cough that was so bad I thought I was choking. I had a carton of cigarettes which I smoked, but I have never bought myself a pack of smokes for myself since. I have, on occasion smoked a cig while drunk, but that has been few and far between. But for the most part I don't smoke. I think I have probably smoked about 4 or 5 cigarettes since 2004.
When I quit, I attended a no-smoking clinic to get over the hump at the University. The group was sponsored by doctor from the University Health Center. I remember him cautioning us that after we quit, we might experience severe coughing spells. Apparently, nicotine had some chemical that suppresses coughs while you smoke, and when it's no longer in your system, your lungs will work over time trying to clear out the left over crap. I never experienced that, however.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 13, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
I guess Hitler can be locked in hell forever, but at his own will. I found this quote by C. S. Lewis, "I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside" (The Problem of Pain, 130)
One can find a reason to believe a fiction in many different places.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 13, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
I guess Hitler can be locked in hell forever, but at his own will. I found this quote by C. S. Lewis, "I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside" (The Problem of Pain, 130)
So basically "God doesn't throw you into Hell; you throw yourself into Hell." I've heard that argument before. And are you getting your theology from fiction writers now? Well, at least he's honest about his work being fiction, unlike some other people.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 13, 2018, 11:22:38 AM
So basically "God doesn't throw you into Hell; you throw yourself into Hell." I've heard that argument before. And are you getting your theology from fiction writers now? Well, at least he's honest about his work being fiction, unlike some other people.
That is actually the Muslim theological view. Stubborn people are enabled to be stubborn (harden Pharaoh's heart). Iblis-Shaytan is the most stubborn angel, argues with G-d that G-d can't change his mind, when G-d presents Adam as his new improved creation, better than angels.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 13, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
I guess Hitler can be locked in hell forever, but at his own will. I found this quote by C. S. Lewis, "I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside" (The Problem of Pain, 130)
How do you know any of this?
What makes you think that C.S. Lewis had some kind of inside knowledge?
She believes it, so that means she knows it.
Don't forget the desire to believe it in the first place (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking), independent of logic or evidence.
Speaking of, it's awfully convenient that the damned have willingly brought it on themselves. It makes believing in this stuff just a tad more palpabale.
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 13, 2018, 08:46:23 AM
Presuppositions are fun pastimes.
I quit smoking sometime in November 2004, I remember vividly how one early morning I woke up with a tobacco cough that was so bad I thought I was choking. I had a carton of cigarettes which I smoked, but I have never bought myself a pack of smokes for myself since. I have, on occasion smoked a cig while drunk, but that has been few and far between. But for the most part I don't smoke. I think I have probably smoked about 4 or 5 cigarettes since 2004.
The only place I smoke is sitting here in front of the computer while I think and type. I have no desire otherwhere or otherwise. It is habituation, not addiction.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
This is to those who answered. There is hell,
Where? My satnav can't seem to find it.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
and I did not say hell means tortures and suffers (and neither did you).
That's the generally accepted definition. If you wish to redefine words, then please do so at the start of your argument.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
So what do they deserve? Not torturing and suffering apparently according to you. So what do they get?
Do the demons get it too?
Demons enjoy hell, that is why some posters insist on being banned ;-) Purgatory isn't bad enough.
Quote from: Jason78 on March 15, 2018, 03:49:23 AM
Where? My satnav can't seem to find it.
That's the generally accepted definition. If you wish to redefine words, then please do so at the start of your argument.
So what do they deserve? Not torturing and suffering apparently according to you. So what do they get?
Do the demons get it too?
Well, as there is no heaven, there is equally no hell.
Hitler ceased to exist when he put a bullet into his own brain.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 15, 2018, 11:25:57 AM
Hitler ceased to exist when he put a bullet into his own brain.
Except for being alive and well and living in Argentina ;-)
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
There is hell, where Demon dwells, and sinners get what they deserve.
Prove it.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 15, 2018, 11:25:57 AM
Hitler ceased to exist when he put a bullet into his own brain.
Wikipedia summary:
Accounts differ as to the cause of death; one version stated that he died by poison only and another view claimed he died by a self-inflicted gunshot while biting down on a cyanide capsule. Contemporary historians have rejected these accounts as being either Soviet propaganda or an attempted compromise in order to reconcile the different conclusions. One eyewitness stated that Hitler's corpse showed signs of having been shot through the mouth, but this has been proven unlikely. There is also controversy regarding the authenticity of skull and jaw fragments that were recovered. In 2009, American researchers performed DNA tests on a skull fragment that Soviet officials had long believed to be that of Hitler. The DNA tests and examination revealed that the skull was actually that of a woman less than 40 years old. The recovered jaw fragments were not tested.
I personally think that it is likely that Hitler died by his own choice, but the method is uncertain. But I expect he died there in Berlin. Conspiracy theorists can make whatever they want with the uncertainty. I doubt that, given his personality. if he escaped somehow, he could have hidden for long...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 15, 2018, 03:16:55 AM
The only place I smoke is sitting here in front of the computer while I think and type. I have no desire otherwhere or otherwise. It is habituation, not addiction.
Just don't get caught smoking in the prone position on your bed - or you'll spend the night in the box!
Quote from: Carr, the floor walker (Cool Hand Luke)There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box.
;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 15, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Just don't get caught smoking in the prone position on your bed - or you'll spend the night in the box!
;-)
What?
Just a silly movie reference, ala Baruch ;-D
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 15, 2018, 01:37:08 PM
Just a silly movie reference, ala Baruch ;-D
Oh. Well THAT figures...
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 15, 2018, 01:37:08 PM
Just a silly movie reference, ala Baruch ;-D
You even mentioned where it came from ... and I did see that movie. Will be looking into it ...
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechcoolhandluke1.html
Yeah, too me no time at all, and now I remember the speech, if not the specifics. That floor-walker is my kind of tough love ;-) We need him in every HS in the country. He wouldn't need to run into a gun fire situation, because they wouldn't happen in the first place.
Beware the ides of March...
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 15, 2018, 06:29:29 PM
Beware the ides of March...
They haven't ended yet ... beware of Greeks bearing gifts, and Romans with something to hide in their togas.
Is that your dagger, or are you just glad to see me? ;-))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Camuccini#/media/File:Vincenzo_Camuccini_-_La_morte_di_Cesare.jpg
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 10, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
I quit cold turkey in 1988. October 1st, 7 AM. My friends took me out to the Mojave with two weeks food and water and an emergency radio. Day Two I was looking for coyotes to beat up. Haven't smoked since.
I dont generally care for cigs. But when I'm on the computer, I have to have one in my hand. Makes no sense at all. But I just can't type without one in my hand...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 15, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
I dont generally care for cigs. But when I'm on the computer, I have to have one in my hand. Makes no sense at all. But I just can't type without one in my hand...
Sitting down at my computer was one of the hardest triggers to break when I quit. As soon as my ass hit that chair, I was reaching for my pack and lighter. I ended up keeping a huge bag of Tootsie Pops next to my desk and reaching into those when I sat down.
Quote from: NellGwyn on March 10, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Do you think Adolph Hitler is locked in hell forever for the killing of the Jewish during World War II? Isn't the duration of time in hell assigned by how wicked you have been (I think this is kind of Buddhist)? So I am thinking for how many people Hitler killed, he would be locked in hell forever. `
Why would Hitler burn in hell for doing what he and other Catholics in Germany called "the work of god"
Do you not know anything about anything?
I heard Hitler and his wife and Himmler and his wife all agreed to take poison together. After they took it the poison was taking too long or was too painful so one of them got out his gun and shot everyone.
hmmm hey NellGwyn do you remember reading in the Bible where it says the dead know nothing? Oh wait that’s one of those contradictions that doesn’t exist.
For thlose keeping score, that's in Ecclesiastes. Verse 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.â€
No further reward? I guess no reward in heaven either, huh?
There is no soul of man that lives after death to have pleasure in a heaven or to have pain in a hell...
I believe the ancient Jews believed that, as well, until their capture by the Persians, where they absorbed much of the theology from the Zoroastrians, after which they had a belief in an afterlife, and heaven and hell.
How many Christians even know that?
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 16, 2018, 01:39:42 PM
I believer the ancient Jews believed that, as well, until their capture by the Persians, where they absorbed much of the theology from the Zoroastrians, after which they had a belief in an afterlife, and heaven and hell.
How many Christians even know that?
Correct. The Torah and much of the rest of the Tanakh didn't exist as such before the Persians sent the Zionists back to Jerusalem from Babylon, under several Jewish governors (see Ezra in particular) who worked for the Shah (emperor of Persia). It was cobbled together then, and over the next 350 years, from prior materials that existed in part, before the Babylonian Exile. When in Babylon, that is when Judeans were exposed to the Flood myth for example, which went back millennia before even the Babylonians. With the coming of Persia, and Zoroastrianism, there was the notion of an afterlife (though it also existed in Egypt, but Jews were anti-Egyptian and pro-Persian). In Western Indo-Persian culture aka Persian culture, time is linear, not circular like it is in Eastern Indo-Persian culture aka Hindu culture. So an afterlife was a logical necessity, rather than reincarnation. There were a small minority of Judeans, 2000 years ago (500 years after the release from Babylonian captivity) who believed in reincarnation however (called gilgul in Hebrew).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul
The Zoroastrian idea seems independent, but convergent evolution to the even older Egyptian afterlife beliefs. Paul and Muhammad would have both been influenced by Egypt and Persia in their own times.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on March 16, 2018, 01:29:26 PM
There is no soul of man that lives after death to have pleasure in a heaven or to have pain in a hell...
Materialists in both Greece (Atheists) and India (Charvaka) have claimed such for about 2500 years now. Not a new idea.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 16, 2018, 01:18:18 PM
For thlose keeping score, that's in Ecclesiastes. Verse 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.â€
No further reward? I guess no reward in heaven either, huh?
Pre-Zionist. The original Zionists were the elite who came to Jerusalem from Babylon, under Persian control, to enact Persian religious-ethnic policy. The majority of Babylonian and Iranian Jews stayed where they were. The majority were never deported in 722 BCE (Israel) or 587 BCE (Judah) ... just the upper and middle classes. And some of those escaped to Egypt.
Ecclesiastes and Job are Jewish versions of perennial wisdom literature of the Middle East, which went back to the early Bronze Age.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 16, 2018, 01:39:42 PM
I believe the ancient Jews believed that, as well, until their capture by the Persians, where they absorbed much of the theology from the Zoroastrians, after which they had a belief in an afterlife, and heaven and hell.
How many Christians even know that?
Can't say. But some of us atheists do, LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 17, 2018, 03:13:35 AM
Can't say. But some of us atheists do, LOL!
I would say that it's likely that none of the rank and file Christians know it, but probably most of the high mucky-mucks of the religion do know it, at least those that went to seminary. But they hide such things from their flocks of sheeple.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 17, 2018, 02:29:30 PM
I would say that it's likely that none of the rank and file Christians know it, but probably most of the high mucky-mucks of the religion do know it, at least those that went to seminary. But they hide such things from their flocks of sheeple.
Like Frankenstein monsters, preachers are afraid of villagers with torches and pitchforks. I was married to one. The periodic need for her to get recharged during a lightning storm was unnerving.
Would you rather she'd have been solar powered, like the villain created by Lex Luthor in one of those silly Superman movies?
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 17, 2018, 02:37:53 PM
Would you rather she'd have been solar powered, like the villain created by Lex Luthor in one of those silly Superman movies?
No vampires are solar powered! Lunatics require lunar power.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 17, 2018, 02:29:30 PM
I would say that it's likely that none of the rank and file Christians know it, but probably most of the high mucky-mucks of the religion do know it, at least those that went to seminary. But they hide such things from their flocks of sheeple.
The religious sheep must be sheared, not educated. A shepherd does not want sheep who ask awkward questions... Bad for the business and all that.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 18, 2018, 01:16:16 AM
A shepherd does not want sheep who ask awkward questions...
I did that once. lol. James 6:4 or somewhere around there says that god never called angels sons of god. So I asked an associate pastor who the sons of god were in the flood. He said I dont know. We are not meant to understand everything until we get to heaven.
didnt ask him any more questions ;-)
Quote from: fencerider on March 19, 2018, 09:31:13 PM
I did that once. lol. James 6:4 or somewhere around there says that god never called angels sons of god. So I asked an associate pastor who the sons of god were in the flood. He said I dont know. We are not meant to understand everything until we get to heaven.
didnt ask him any more questions ;-)
Gospel of John 1:12, Acts 2:17, Romans 8:14;19, Gal 4:16, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1;2 ... this is where "sons of god" are mentioned in the NT. Not in James, and nothing much about angels.
Yes, clergy often aren't much better than lay people. What you were asking about, was about the "nephelim" an OT concept from Genesis. These were semi-pagan concepts inherited from the Canaanites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim ... I would definitely go with the Sumerian mythology version.
The synonym, Annunaki ... was popular as recently as the apocalypse scare of Dec 2012.
Quote from: Baruch on March 19, 2018, 11:15:06 PM
Gospel of John 1:12, Acts 2:17, Romans 8:14;19, Gal 4:16, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1;2 ... this is where "sons of god" are mentioned in the NT. Not in James, and nothing much about angels.
Yes, clergy often aren't much better than lay people.
I'm surprised you admit that. Why should they be leading the flocks then? Personally, I suspect it because they can't hold down a real job and skimming the sheep of their coins is easier than selling used cars to suckers.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 20, 2018, 03:11:40 AM
I'm surprised you admit that. Why should they be leading the flocks then? Personally, I suspect it because they can't hold down a real job and skimming the sheep of their coins is easier than selling used cars to suckers.
I have personal experience. On both sides of the clergy/laity spectrum. Has anyone else here been a minister or married to a pastor?
But notice i said, they are no better than the laity. I don't mean the laity are good people. Virtue signalers in most cases, like our Leftists etc.
Are politicians uber-menschen? If not, why are they "leading"? In regards to used car sales ... are you opposed to capitalism, or did you buy a lemon?
i am not good at references
Hebrews 1:5 for unto which of the angels said he at any time, thou art my son. Today I have begotten thee?
I think there was another one somewhere. Anyways...
Fleecing the laity sure worked for Pat Robertson. I think he always had such a big smile on his face cause he knew all those suckers were making him rich
Quote from: fencerider on March 20, 2018, 11:09:32 PM
i am not good at references
Hebrews 1:5 for unto which of the angels said he at any time, thou art my son. Today I have begotten thee?
I think there was another one somewhere. Anyways...
Fleecing the laity sure worked for Pat Robertson. I think he always had such a big smile on his face cause he knew all those suckers were making him rich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_2
Epistle to the Hebrews is misquoting Psalm 2 ... this is about the coronation ceremony of the Judean king (most likely King Josiah).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Hebrews
Which is a messianic Jewish work. Jesus as the divine son of David/king. This was the claim apparently of King Josiah, the first false messiah of Judaism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah
Quote from: fencerider on March 20, 2018, 11:09:32 PM
Fleecing the laity sure worked for Pat Robertson. I think he always had such a big smile on his face cause he knew all those suckers were making him rich
I never saw a preacher without a smile on his face. Sure beats actually working for a living. I once considered that myself, but realized selling used cars to suckers was more profitable and I didn't want to do that either.
So I decided to work for the government and saved it 10x my salary each year and that satisfied me.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2018, 01:14:20 AM
I never saw a preacher without a smile on his face. Sure beats actually working for a living. I once considered that myself, but realized selling used cars to suckers was more profitable and I didn't want to do that either.
So I decided to work for the government and saved it 10x my salary each year and that satisfied me.
But you like politicians, because you have discriminating tastes?