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News & General Discussion => News Stories and Current Events => Topic started by: pr126 on January 21, 2018, 11:48:11 PM

Title: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 21, 2018, 11:48:11 PM
 â€˜Conquest’ prayers performed across Turkey’s mosques for Afrin operation (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/conquest-prayers-performed-across-turkeys-mosques-for-afrin-operation-126072)
QuoteSpecial “conquest” prayers were held across all of Turkey’s 90,000 mosques on Jan. 20 and Jan. 21 for the victory of the country’s military, which launched a cross border operation in Syria’s northwestern Afrin region on Jan. 20 against the Syrian Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG).

“Sessions will be held after the isha prayer tonight [Jan. 20] and the morning prayer [on Jan. 21] due to Operation Olive Branch,” said Religious Affairs Directorate (Diyanet) head Ali Erbas in a message sent on Jan. 20 to all offices of muftis and religious officials across the country.

“The Surah Conquest [Surah al-Fath] will be cited during the special sessions to pray for the victory of our heroic security forces, who have launched an operation against terrorist groups that threaten our nation and our peace,” Erbaş added.

Responding to the call by Turkey’s top cleric, thousands across the country gathered in mosques to pray for servicemen taking part in the operation.

It also contains this command:”Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are ruthless against the unbelievers, merciful among themselves” (48:29).

Moderate secular Turkey? Not so much.  Just an afterthought. Turkey is member of NATO. Why?

(https://i.imgur.com/IDoq2Hl.gif)
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 12:45:27 AM
Good match!  Erdogan may be much like Saruman.

Islamic patriotism .. prayers for Turks going to kill Kurds.  This is why my ancestors left the Old World ... too many jihads.  Not just Israeli are despised, but also Kurds, hated by Turks, Iraqis and Iranians all.

Why in Nato?  The Dardanelles and the Bosporus.  Russia must be contained.  Denmark performs the same thing in the Baltic, and Japan/Koea in the Sea of Japan.  Sakhalin Island occupied by Japan, controlled the northern exit to Vladivostok ... but not since 1945.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 12:57:43 AM
https://quran.com/48

Definitely a jihad surah.  Similar to Biblical references to Jewish armies led by G-d, or Jesus saying he comes to divide with a sword and set the world afire.  This was the way it was ... with the politicized Zoroastrianism of Persia, and politicized Christianity of the Byzantium ... in the case of Ahura Mazda, the great leader against evil, and in the case of Christos Pantokrator, the ruler of the world.  Of course they have Earthly vicars ... the Shah and the Emperor.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 22, 2018, 01:00:24 AM
QuoteGood match!  Erdogan may be much like Saruman.
Muhammad is Sauron.

One Book to rule them all, One Book to find them,
One Book to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Allah where the Shadows lie.


Triggerwarning!

NYT: 99.99% of Muslims are Peaceful (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/01/nyt_9999_of_muslims_are_peaceful.html)
QuoteThe New York Times had a starring role in covering up the mass murders of Josef Stalin.  Then the NYT covered up the Holocaust.  Now it is providing cover for the mass murdering inclinations of Muslims.  The names have changed, but what the paper does is the same.

Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 22, 2018, 02:12:14 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 12:57:43 AM
https://quran.com/48

Definitely a jihad surah.  Similar to Biblical references to Jewish armies led by G-d, or Jesus saying he comes to divide with a sword and set the world afire.  This was the way it was ... with the politicized Zoroastrianism of Persia, and politicized Christianity of the Byzantium ... in the case of Ahura Mazda, the great leader against evil, and in the case of Christos Pantokrator, the ruler of the world.  Of course they have Earthly vicars ... the Shah and the Emperor.
There is a slight difference between the bible and the Quran.
The Bible is descriptive, telling a story of things past.

The Quran is prescriptive, the commands are valid for all times, for all humanity.
Quran 48:29 is still valid today and will be valid for ever. Or until Islam exist.

But that side, how many Christians have murdered people across the globe in the name of Jesus?
How many Muslims terrorist attacks in the name of Allah across the globe since 9/11?

32415  (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) terrorist attacks in the name of Allah
Zero terrorist attacks by Christians In the name of Jesus.

Before anyone mentions the Lord Resistance Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army), led by a psychotic gangster Joseph Kony, with his cult pretending to be Christian, no, it does not represent Christianity, nor it is a threat to world peace.

Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 07:07:58 AM
But ... African Christians killing witches and albinos ... that is Christian, right?  Or will you keep exonerating them too?  Well, they are African ... same as those who do female circumcision (an African custom, as is male circumcision) vs Islam.  So just a long "not a true Scotsman" then?

The Vatican (who cut a deal with Mussolini) would agree with you, Germany and Italy didn't represent good Christianity either.  Didn't follow the Pope's instructions to the letter.  How come all the nasty Fascist countries were all Catholic?  Portugal, Spain, Austria, Italy, Germany, Vichy France ... and lets not forget Argentina ... it was the Catholic Church that not only destroyed Hungary for Hitler, but also tried to exterminate your beloved Britain.

Meanwhile, both France and the US are supplying the same Kurds who are being attacked by Erdogan.  That is the real action, not an old book.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 22, 2018, 07:31:49 AM
They don’t kill because they are Christians. They kill because they are savages. Their IQ is very low.
There are also no laws. It is the law of the jungle, literally.
But how do we know that they are Christians? Is that what the faith teaches?
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: SGOS on January 22, 2018, 07:35:53 AM
In fairness to the NYT, the article doesn't appear to be written by the editorial staff.  It is referred to in the article as an op-ed piece, and doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the editors or the paper.  It's an op-ed.
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed

An op-ed (originally short for "opposite the editorial page" although often taken to stand for "opinion editorial") is a written prose piece typically published by a newspaper or magazine which expresses the opinion of a named author usually not affiliated with the publication's editorial board.

One might suggest that the NYT is in league with terrorists, but I don't know of any evidence to support that. It's an opinion piece written with obvious bias by a Muslim Cleric, and no documentation or evidence to back it up.  The 99.99% statistic is an unsupported assertion, not actual data, at least within the context of the piece.  Providing evidence would be the responsibility of the cleric writer, not of the NYT.

One might question the NYT for giving a floor to the writer, I suppose, but opinion pages and op-ed sections in papers are full of loose thoughts and ideas and are not subject to the same rigors of what journalism used to be.  Opinion pages are just opinions, often with obvious bias, but usually more varied in agenda than FOX News.




Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Shiranu on January 22, 2018, 09:31:35 AM
QuoteThey don’t kill because they are Christians. They kill because they are savages. Their IQ is very low.
There are also no laws. It is the law of the jungle, literally.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WarlikeNegativeBighorn-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: pr126 on January 22, 2018, 07:31:49 AM
They don’t kill because they are Christians. They kill because they are savages. Their IQ is very low.
There are also no laws. It is the law of the jungle, literally.
But how do we know that they are Christians? Is that what the faith teaches?

Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun ...
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on January 24, 2018, 02:21:48 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 22, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun ...

Given that it is Winter here, the noonday sun is about as warm as it gets.  40F.  So it makes sense to go out then.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 04:45:04 AM
QuoteErdogan: Islamic Education Will Forge ‘Pious Generation’ to Build ‘New Civilization’ for Turkey

Turkey was long renowned for its secular government, a modern state guided by the vision of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk when he built the Republic of Turkey from the ashes of the Ottoman Empire in the early years of the last century. The current president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has the opposite vision of Turkey as a Muslim state at the heart of a new Ottoman Empire. A report from Reuters examines one of the means Erdogan is using to achieve this goal: Islamic education in Turkish schools.

The current president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has the opposite vision of Turkey as a Muslim state at the heart of a new Ottoman Empire. A new report from Reuters examines one of the means Erdogan is using to achieve this goal: Islamic education in Turkish schools.

“Erdogan has said one of his goals is to forge a ‘pious generation’ in predominantly Muslim Turkey ‘that will work for the construction of a new civilization.’ His recent speeches have emphasized Turkey’s Ottoman history and domestic achievements over Western ideas and influences,” Reuters observes.

Erdogan’s “drive to put religion at the heart of national life after decades of secular dominance” includes pouring “billions of dollars into religious education,” including a 100 percent increase in funding for “Imam and Preacher” religious academies. Those schools already get double the per-pupil funding of regular Turkish schools but dramatically underperform on standard tests.

(https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/turkish-school.jpg)

Source (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/01/25/erdogan-islamic-education-will-forge-pious-generation-build-new-civilization-turkey/)
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 06:15:50 AM
Quote from: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 04:45:04 AM
(https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/turkish-school.jpg)

Source (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/01/25/erdogan-islamic-education-will-forge-pious-generation-build-new-civilization-turkey/)

Turkey is not, and never really has been, secular.  Only top-down authoritarian rule made that so temporarily.  It's not the government that matters, it's the people.  And they are theistic as any in the Mid East.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 06:22:05 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 06:15:50 AM
Turkey is not, and never really has been, secular.  Only top-down authoritarian rule made that so temporarily.  It's not the government that matters, it's the people.  And they are theistic as any in the Mid East.
In the past the army managed to quell the Islamic fervour, but Erdogan has since purged those from the military.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
Quote from: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 06:22:05 AM
In the past the army managed to quell the Islamic fervour, but Erdogan has since purged those from the military.

And now Turkey is attacking the Kurdish armed forces. and becoming more accepting of Islamists Jihadists.  Not exactly NATO material...
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 08:34:36 AM
No. I think it is time for a change.
NATO was created for the Soviet threat that no longer exist.

Germany is planning an EU army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union).
I think it will be used against its own citizens. To put down a civil revolt?
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:07:31 AM
Quote from: pr126 on January 27, 2018, 08:34:36 AM
No. I think it is time for a change.
NATO was created for the Soviet threat that no longer exist.

Germany is planning an EU army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union).
I think it will be used against its own citizens. To put down a civil revolt?

Betcha the Russians are aiming at Eastern Europe again...  NATO has reasons to exist.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: SGOS on January 27, 2018, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
And now Turkey is attacking the Kurdish armed forces. and becoming more accepting of Islamists Jihadists.  Not exactly NATO material...
I met a university professor riding a recumbent on a bike path one time.  I always stop these guys because I also rode a recumbent, although I was on my mountain bike at the time.  He had taken his recumbent from Greece to Turkey the year before, and invited me to accompany him on his repeat adventure to Turkey the next summer.  I knew little about Turkey at the time, and expressed concern about how Americans might be received there.  His response was that the US was on very good terms with Turkey at that time, because Turkey was trying to join NATO, and America was one of the few countries supporting them.  While that allayed my concerns, I declined, although it did seem like an interesting trip.

I've had high hopes for Turkey since then, but relations are being strained now under Erdogan, and relations with a country don't necessarily determine relations between people, but the government does come into play.  How many Turks would want to visit America under our current government with the way Trump has brought the bigots and phobes out of the woodwork?  They would be at risk for a bad experience, I would think.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:07:31 AM
Betcha the Russians are aiming at Eastern Europe again...  NATO has reasons to exist.

Russians are always paranoid.  They have good reason to be.  Nato since 1991 has been a war crime.

I took my daughter, to the opening of the local Turkish Relations center ... the only opportunity she might have to interact with the Middle East.  Other than eating at an Egyptian restaurant.  I had her scarf her hair, just for that occasion.  I wore my Jihadi beard ;-)
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:55:04 AM
Russians are always paranoid.  They have good reason to be.  Nato since 1991 has been a war crime.

I took my daughter, to the opening of the local Turkish Relations center ... the only opportunity she might have to interact with the Middle East.  Other than eating at an Egyptian restaurant.  I had her scarf her hair, just for that occasion.  I wore my Jihadi beard ;-)

Good thing the local customs didn't demand your daughter go topless...  How would you have felt about THAT?
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 11:11:07 AM
Good thing the local customs didn't demand your daughter go topless...  How would you have felt about THAT?

I am far more liberated than any of you realize.  At a genuine Luao, we could have both been topless.  But pig and poi would have been ... unattractive to us.  Also don't smoke, if you are wearing a grass skirt!
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 04:14:34 PM
I am far more liberated than any of you realize.  At a genuine Luao, we could have both been topless.  But pig and poi would have been ... unattractive to us.  Also don't smoke, if you are wearing a grass skirt!

There was a young lady named Hall,
Wore a newspaper dress to a ball.
The dress caught on fire
And burned her entire
Front page, sport section, and all.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on February 06, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: pr126 on January 22, 2018, 07:31:49 AM
They don’t kill because they are Christians. They kill because they are savages. Their IQ is very low.
There are also no laws. It is the law of the jungle, literally.
But how do we know that they are Christians? Is that what the faith teaches?

Exodus 22:18

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”

Maybe you can look it up next time before you look like a fucking moron.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on February 06, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Exodus 22:18

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”

Maybe you can look it up next time before you look like a fucking moron.

PR lives in his own strange world.  Your sarc probably just went right (well, "left") over his head, LOL!
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on February 06, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Exodus 22:18

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”

Maybe you can look it up next time before you look like a fucking moron.

Fundie Christians think they are Jewish ... Jews know better, and most are past the Levitical laws.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 11:41:46 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 11:15:29 PM
Fundie Christians think they are Jewish ... Jews know better, and most are past the Levitical laws.

I must smile.  Even the "alleged" Jesus would have considered himself "Jewish'.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 11:41:46 PM
I must smile.  Even the "alleged" Jesus would have considered himself "Jewish'.

So would Paul.  But Constantine originated in Illyria.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 01:49:40 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
So would Paul.  But Constantine originated in Illyria.

The alleged disciples were all jewish.  Constantine, on the other hand, saw that Christians were a source of support to his throne.  I suspect the "flaming cross in the sky" was just a political scheme.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 01:49:40 AM
The alleged disciples were all jewish.  Constantine, on the other hand, saw that Christians were a source of support to his throne.  I suspect the "flaming cross in the sky" was just a political scheme.
Nah!  Report to Father O'Flaherty for confession immediately!
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 04:49:36 PM
QuoteMaybe you can look it up next time before you look like a fucking moron.
He's well beyond merely LOOKING like a fucking moron.. He's proven beyond any reasonable doubt.... oh..you know..
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 04:49:36 PM
He's well beyond merely LOOKING like a fucking moron.. He's proven beyond any reasonable doubt.... oh..you know..

I hope he grabs every pussy on the planet, before Bill Clinton beats him to it ;-)
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on February 11, 2018, 11:57:11 PM
 Turkish Republic is continuation of Ottomans: President ErdoÄŸan (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-republic-is-continuation-of-ottomans-president-erdogan-127106)
QuoteThe Republic of Turkey is a continuation of the Ottoman Empire, President Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan said on Feb. 10.

“The Republic of Turkey, just like our previous states that are a continuation of one another, is also a continuation of the Ottomans," Erdoğan said in remarks he made during a commemoration ceremony to mark the centenary of the death of Ottoman Sultan Abdulhamid II at the Yıldız Palace in Istanbul.

"Of course, the borders have changed. Forms of government have changed... But the essence is the same, soul is the same, even many institutions are the same."

ErdoÄŸan added this is why Sultan Abdulhamid is one of the "most important, most visionary and most strategic minded" individual that made his mark in recent 150 years.

Sultan Abdulhamid II, the son of Sultan Abdulmecid, died in 1918, and was the 34th sultan of the Ottoman Empire.

ErdoÄŸan also criticized those with "bigoted" viewpoints about Sultan Abdulhamid.

"Some people insistently try to start this country's history from 1923. Some unrelentingly try to break us from our roots and ancient values," he added.

ErdoÄŸan said the big picture brings character and memory to a nation.

"We take pride in our history without making discrimination," the leader added on the day eleven Turkish soldiers were killed in cross-border operations.

On Jan. 20, Turkey launched “Operation Olive Branch” to clear People's Protection Units (YPG) militants from Afrin in northwestern Syria.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 12, 2018, 07:06:00 AM
The last Sultan of Turkey, seems to me to be a ... loser.  Ataturk took over ... and saved Turkey.  It was being dismembered by the victorious WW I allies.  It would be like an American admiring Jefferson Davis, and hating General Grant.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on February 12, 2018, 12:02:16 PM
 Turkish soldiers advancing slowly in Afrin to fight in line with Islamic ethics  (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-soldiers-advancing-slowly-in-afrin-to-fight-in-line-with-islamic-ethics-top-religious-body-head-127126)
QuoteTurkish soldiers are advancing slowly in Syria’s Afrin district to avoid harming civilians in the area, according to Religious Affairs Directorate (Diyanet) head Ali Erbaş.

“Our Muslims soldiers are undertaking their fight in line with Islam’s principles. That is why they are moving slowly in Afrin. They are moving with the conscience of not causing even one person’s nose to bleed; after all, this is Islam’s order,” Erbaş said on Feb. 10 during a speech at the Orhan Gazi Culture Center in the western province of Sakarya’s Adapazarı district.

“All our conquests in history were undertaken to prevent oppression. Our soldiers fire their bullets against oppressors, to protect those oppressed. Our soldiers are clashing for this, because there are terror organizations there, and they are constantly oppressing,” Erbaş said.

Speaking about the “exploitation of Islam by various groups like Boko Haram, al-Shabab, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant [ISIL] and the Fethullahist Terrorist Organization [FETÖ],” he said they can be tackled by giving people the “right knowledge on religion.”

“If we do not undertake our duties at this point, then we will face groups that are promoted as religious formations but which later turn into terror organizations. How did ISIL, Boko Haram, al-Shabab, and FETÖ show up? They did through incorrect interpretations of religion,” he said.

Quran 8:60
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 12, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 04:49:36 PM
He's well beyond merely LOOKING like a fucking moron.. He's proven beyond any reasonable doubt.... oh..you know..

No offense but just a suggestion to leave the author of a quote in the quote.  I had to look up quite a way to find it.  Just makes things easier...

Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on February 14, 2018, 01:28:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZHdbfuFtw
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on February 19, 2018, 08:34:37 AM
 Turkey using 'CHEMICAL WEAPONS against CIVILIANS', claims human rights group (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/920758/world-war-3-turkey-chemical-weapons-sarin-gas-civilians-operation-olive-branch-syria-news)
QuoteTURKISH forces have been accused of using chemical weapons against civilian populations during its campaign across northern Syria in order to take out “terrorist group” the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG), it has been claimed.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), a UK-based monitoring group, said six people were hit in Turkish shelling in Al-Sheikh Hadid in the Afrin region on Friday.

The victims are said to have had dilated pupils and difficulties breathing.

A statement by the group said: "Medical sources confirmed the use of gases during the shelling, but the SOHR was not able, until now, to know the type of the used gases.”

The official Syrian news agency SANA repeated the claim, quoting local doctors, and said six people were hospitalised with symptoms of suffocation from Turkish projectiles carrying poisonous gas.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: pr126 on February 19, 2018, 08:34:37 AM
Turkey using 'CHEMICAL WEAPONS against CIVILIANS', claims human rights group (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/920758/world-war-3-turkey-chemical-weapons-sarin-gas-civilians-operation-olive-branch-syria-news)

Yes, that happened.  Did you have a comment?  I didn't see one.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 08:20:06 PM
US says that chemical shelling didn't happen.  But some civilians did have respiratory problems ... it happens in warfare from smoke from fires etc.  If nerve gas was used, everyone in that town would be dead.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 02:24:42 AM
I think it is time to The West to accept that Turkey is no more democratic than Pakistan and no more worthy of inclusion in NATO than the other Middle Eastern despotic nations like it.
Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: pr126 on February 25, 2018, 02:29:00 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 02:24:42 AM
I think it is time to The West to accept that Turkey is no more democratic than Pakistan and no more worthy of inclusion in NATO than the other Middle Eastern despotic nations like it.
I think that NATO will be disbanded and replaced with the planned European Army. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union)

All those millions of young Muslim males, the New "Europeans" will need a vocation.
What's better than conscripted into an army?


Title: Re: Moderate secular Turkey?
Post by: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 03:32:11 AM
Quote from: pr126 on February 25, 2018, 02:29:00 AM
I think that NATO will be disbanded and replaced with the planned European Army. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union)

All those millions of young Muslim males, the New "Europeans" will need a vocation.
What's better than conscripted into an army?

"Not being conscripted into an army"?