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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: Blackleaf on January 18, 2018, 04:23:29 PM

Title: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Blackleaf on January 18, 2018, 04:23:29 PM
There's this small channel, an atheist YouTuber I like to watch called Prophet of Zod. He makes a lot of videos with really good arguments, taking flawed Christian thinking and simplifying them to show their errors. I thought his video today was particularly worth sharing, especially given one of the discussions that was going on in another recent thread.

To summarize, Zod points out that Christians have contradictory mindsets when it comes to religion and science. For their religion, they're often willing to accept impossible concepts, such as the Trinity, on the assumption that there is some incomprehensible explanation that our limited minds just can't understand. But then they turn around and say, "How can the universe come from nothing? This doesn't make any sense to me, so it must be wrong." So they're willing to take nonsense religious claims on faith, but they reject science because they don't understand it.

Then he also goes in to explain why scientists do not have the same contradictory mindset, only in reverse. While the religious makes up unintuitive ideas and just believes them on faith, science discovers concepts that seem unintuitive via observations. Science corrects itself when new information is made available, while religion remains fixed and its ideas are considered immune to criticism. Additionally, many of the things the religious consider unintuitive about science actually only seem that way because of own misunderstandings of what science actually says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm3rVr949g
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on January 18, 2018, 04:44:03 PM
Great video - I've just subscribed to his channel.

Christians have been told that they'll burn in hell for eternity if they don't believe or if they even question what they've been told about God and Jesus. So their souls are at stake. So they have to do whatever it takes to continue their belief, or take an eternity of torture. If I really believed in hell I'd do exactly as they do and use any mental gymnastics that were necessary to keep me out of hell.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Hydra009 on January 18, 2018, 05:39:46 PM
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So they're willing to take nonsense religious claims on faith, but they reject science because they don't understand it.
They only treat some science this way, typically politically "controversial" subjects like the Big Bang, evolution, and climate change.  Coincidentally, Christians treat scientific ideas they don't want to believe with impossibly high skeptical standards and religious ideas they do want to believe with little to no skepticism.

Skepticism is selectively deployed - sicked on rival religions or threatening scientific ideas but brought to heel when it comes to one's preferred religion.

The problem is actually much worse than just mere hypocrisy - this sort of behavior is diagnostic of a mentality where reason no longer has any function except to defend one's preexisting religious beliefs and to impugn other beliefs with whatever arguments seem convincing, regardless of whether or not they're sound.

As skeptics, we might find a lot of the arguments these people use - like "How can you say God doesn't exist?  The world is beautiful!" to be illogical and almost impossibly moronic.  That's because these arguments aren't really intended to convince us - they're intended to sound convincing to people who already believe in God and who will approach it uncritically.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on January 18, 2018, 08:47:15 PM
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Great video - I've just subscribed to his channel.

Christians have been told that they'll burn in hell for eternity if they don't believe or if they even question what they've been told about God and Jesus. So their souls are at stake. So they have to do whatever it takes to continue their belief, or take an eternity of torture. If I really believed in hell I'd do exactly as they do and use any mental gymnastics that were necessary to keep me out of hell.

Mary Lou Retton you are not.

Hydra009 ... it is called Sophistry for a reason.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
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Mary Lou Retton you are not.

Hydra009 ... it is called Sophistry for a reason.

And they are called "sophomores" for a reason, too.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on January 27, 2018, 02:47:23 PM
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Mary Lou Retton you are not.



(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/64834726/i-have-a-pipe-therefore-i-am-above-such-sophomoric-humor.jpg)


Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 02:48:47 PM
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(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/64834726/i-have-a-pipe-therefore-i-am-above-such-sophomoric-humor.jpg)

Obviously a freshman.  A sophomore would have hash in the pipe.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: trdsf on January 27, 2018, 07:42:30 PM
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Obviously a freshman.  A sophomore would have hash in the pipe.
Unwarranted assumption -- you didn't see the pipe get loaded.  ;)
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: aitm on January 28, 2018, 09:02:05 AM
I think one of the most overrated aspects one has to consider when dealing with believers is the emotional and ego-istic baggage they drag with them. They are heavily invested into this religion of theirs, bragging to their friends and family, spending time and resources trying to make sure whatever they hear is in agreement with their beliefs.

It is one thing for them to realize that they may be wrong, it is quite another for them to admit to others they are wrong.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on January 28, 2018, 09:11:57 AM
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I think one of the most overrated aspects one has to consider when dealing with believers is the emotional and ego-istic baggage they drag with them. They are heavily invested into this religion of theirs, bragging to their friends and family, spending time and resources trying to make sure whatever they hear is in agreement with their beliefs.

It is one thing for them to realize that they may be wrong, it is quite another for them to admit to others they are wrong.

Same as politics.  And often the two are connected.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on January 28, 2018, 05:21:49 PM
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I think one of the most overrated aspects one has to consider when dealing with believers is the emotional and ego-istic baggage they drag with them. They are heavily invested into this religion of theirs, bragging to their friends and family, spending time and resources trying to make sure whatever they hear is in agreement with their beliefs.

It is one thing for them to realize that they may be wrong, it is quite another for them to admit to others they are wrong.

Many years ago a co-worker invited me to have dinner with him and his family, during the course of which I mentioned to his kids that we all came from star dust. You should've seen how quickly the parents were both on it, to say "no we weren't! God made us from the dust of the Earth!" I just shut up and left as soon as it was polite to do so.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Hydra009 on January 28, 2018, 05:29:11 PM
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Many years ago a co-worker invited me to have dinner with him and his family, during the course of which I mentioned to his kids that we all came from star dust. You should've seen how quickly the parents were both on it, to say "no we weren't! God made us from the dust of the Earth!" I just shut up and left as soon as it was polite to do so.
You should have asked them where they thought the "dust" of the Earth came from.  The whole stardust thing shouldn't even be an issue for religious people - they can allow the physical origin of the universe while also asserting their religious beliefs.  The objection doesn't make sense on any level.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on January 28, 2018, 05:54:39 PM
Well, they made it plain that the subject was entirely closed and they wanted no more such input from me, and I didn't feel it was up to me to school either them or their kids, so I just left as soon as I could.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: GrinningYMIR on January 29, 2018, 06:25:17 PM
My coworkers are both highly religious and they ban any music that isn’t Christian rock and consistently ask if I wanna Go to church, but are generally alright with me when i say I’m not comfortable in churches and prefer to pray at home, and I’m busy anyway. (You guys can see the lie but hey it works in Texas.) it works for me actually because I get more hours since they want to go to Saturday Wednesday and Monday sermons. Perfect for both since they get to go do their thing and I get To chill at a post shop listening to linkin park for a few hours extra.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: popsthebuilder on January 30, 2018, 07:22:48 AM
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There's this small channel, an atheist YouTuber I like to watch called Prophet of Zod. He makes a lot of videos with really good arguments, taking flawed Christian thinking and simplifying them to show their errors. I thought his video today was particularly worth sharing, especially given one of the discussions that was going on in another recent thread.

To summarize, Zod points out that Christians have contradictory mindsets when it comes to religion and science. For their religion, they're often willing to accept impossible concepts, such as the Trinity, on the assumption that there is some incomprehensible explanation that our limited minds just can't understand. But then they turn around and say, "How can the universe come from nothing? This doesn't make any sense to me, so it must be wrong." So they're willing to take nonsense religious claims on faith, but they reject science because they don't understand it.

Then he also goes in to explain why scientists do not have the same contradictory mindset, only in reverse. While the religious makes up unintuitive ideas and just believes them on faith, science discovers concepts that seem unintuitive via observations. Science corrects itself when new information is made available, while religion remains fixed and its ideas are considered immune to criticism. Additionally, many of the things the religious consider unintuitive about science actually only seem that way because of own misunderstandings of what science actually says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm3rVr949g
What does zod say about those who aren't trinnys and who use logic and their mental capacites along with belief to conclude their doctrine?

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Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on January 30, 2018, 01:07:10 PM
See, as soon as one take the more or less correct view, that the god of theology is incomprehensible, why don't theologians conclude, that they are ridiculous?

The god of theology, is a rationalization of a religious belief system/practice.  Now whatever you may think about religious belief systems/practices, this by itself ... a rationalization, defeats itself.  This is why I can't accept any theology per se.  Rationalization is something I see no point in doing.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on January 30, 2018, 01:15:40 PM
Quote from: H.L. Mencken, in On Theologians
There is, in fact, no reason to believe that any given natural phenomenon, however marvelous it may seem today, will remain forever inexplicable. Soon or late the laws governing the production of life itself will be discovered in the laboratory, and man may set up business as a creator on his own account.

The thing, indeed, is not only conceivable; it is even highly probable. When it comes to pass the theologians will be staggered, but I do not go so far as to predict that they will be undone. More than once in the past, seeing this miracle or that suddenly transformed into an ordinary marvel, responsive to lowly natural laws, they have edged out of disaster by abandoning it quietly and turning to another. Their art and mystery will be secure so long as the supply holds out, and that, no doubt, will be a long time.

Their effort to occupy all the areas not yet conquered by science -- in other words, their bold claim that what no one knows is their special province, that ignorance itself is a superior kind of knowledge, that their most fantastic guess must hold good until it is disproved -- all this is certainly absurd enough, but even more absurd is their frequent attempt, just mentioned, to find support for their dogmas in what they allege to be overt facts.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 04:46:16 AM
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Many years ago a co-worker invited me to have dinner with him and his family, during the course of which I mentioned to his kids that we all came from star dust. You should've seen how quickly the parents were both on it, to say "no we weren't! God made us from the dust of the Earth!" I just shut up and left as soon as it was polite to do so.

When I was 17, I was invited to have dinner with the family of my girlfriend.  Her family was Italian-Irish.   First, as the guest, I was invited to "say Grace".  I didn't have a clue!  I managed something like "For the food we are about to receive, we thank you".    Whew...

Then came dinner.  My girlfriend had, of course, cooked it, so I had to declare it "perfect".  Spaghetti.  I love spaghetti.  Serious thick tomato sauce and lots of it!  And here was a bowl of tomato soup for spooning over it.  Thin weak stuff.  And I had to take my portion first, no clue about how her family doused the pasta...

I tried putting a small amount on the top and passed the bowl.  Evidently, that was correct.  Or they followed my lead.  Who knows?  I asked her later about it and she was surprised.  They ate pasta with only a little thin sauce on top.

We parted ways a few years later (she got more religious and I became less so), but I was sure glad to return to the CORRECT way (coff, coff) of eating spaghetti.  LOTS of thick sauce.  I LOVE tomatoes!

Years later, a co-worker related a similar event in her life.  Same thin sauce, and she did it right in the same way...

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 12:26:56 PM
My wife was Italian-American.  We always had thick sauce.

What do you mean, you became less religious?  You claim to have never ever been religious ;-)

My dad, when he was in the Navy, visited Naples Italy.  He saw how they ate spaghetti there ... you spin it up on a fork using a spoon for assistance.

Also possibly a small amount of sauce was tradition, because people were too poor to lay on much sauce.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 12:37:23 PM
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My wife was Italian-American.  We always had thick sauce.

What do you mean, you became less religious?  You claim to have never ever been religious ;-)

My dad, when he was in the Navy, visited Naples Italy.  He saw how they ate spaghetti there ... you spin it up on a fork using a spoon for assistance.

Also possibly a small amount of sauce was tradition, because people were too poor to lay on much sauce.

I was non-religious as a youth, then actively anti-religious when I realized how harmful the whole goddish superstition was. 

Today, here, spahetti est omnis divisa in partes tres.  No spoon required.

And no one in Italy had tomato sauce until after Columbus and long after that, as tomatoes were considered poisonous, BTW.  They stewed the leaves and became ill.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 12:48:35 PM
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I was non-religious as a youth, then actively anti-religious when I realized how harmful the whole goddish superstition was. 

Today, here, spahetti est omnis divisa in partes tres.  No spoon required.

And no one in Italy had tomato sauce until after Columbus and long after that, as tomatoes were considered poisonous, BTW.  They stewed the leaves and became ill.

Green tomatoes are still poisonous.  You can't eat them raw.  Only the big green worms eat the leaves!

So based on the quote, I guess you will have a Caesar salad with that?
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 12:51:20 PM
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Green tomatoes are still poisonous.  You can't eat them raw.  Only the big green worms eat the leaves!

So based on the quote, I guess you will have a Caesar salad with that?

And the leaves are still rather toxic.  And Caesar never saw one in his life, so no Caesar Salad for HIM!
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 01:02:11 PM
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And the leaves are still rather toxic.  And Caesar never saw one in his life, so no Caesar Salad for HIM!

That is why all Roman dictators employ food tasters! There were plenty of other poisons available.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:13:39 PM
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That is why all Roman dictators employ food tasters! There were plenty of other poisons available.

And as kings did after tomatoes were introduced (and proven safe to eat).  You are changing the subject...
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 01:22:31 PM
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And as kings did after tomatoes were introduced (and proven safe to eat).  You are changing the subject...

Well actual Caesar dressing involves raw eggs ... eat with caution!
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:26:56 PM
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Well actual Caesar dressing involves raw eggs ... eat with caution!

Which is why I like my salads tossed and eggless.  Deregulation created contaminated eggs.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on February 02, 2018, 02:18:10 PM
I recall hearing a story about how tomatoes were considered the devil's fruit, until some guy got up on a band-stand in the town square (I don't know what town) with a bushel basket of them and proceeded to eat them, one after the other, with no ill effects. That proved to people that they weren't so bad after all.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
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I recall hearing a story about how tomatoes were considered the devil's fruit, until some guy got up on a band-stand in the town square (I don't know what town) with a bushel basket of them and proceeded to eat them, one after the other, with no ill effects. That proved to people that they weren't so bad after all.

I seem to recall reading years ago that it was Providence Rhode Island.  But that's not proof.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
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I recall hearing a story about how tomatoes were considered the devil's fruit, until some guy got up on a band-stand in the town square (I don't know what town) with a bushel basket of them and proceeded to eat them, one after the other, with no ill effects. That proved to people that they weren't so bad after all.

An American doctor in colonial times.  But he was eating red tomatoes.  And they used to be called "love apples" because they were rumored to be used by suicidal lovers.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on February 02, 2018, 06:25:06 PM
In Texas when I was a kid we used to eat fried green tomatoes. They were pretty good, as I recall.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:26:12 PM
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In Texas when I was a kid we used to eat fried green tomatoes. They were pretty good, as I recall.

The cooking destroys the toxin.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on February 02, 2018, 06:27:05 PM
Lucky for us green-tomato eaters, huh?
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
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Lucky for us green-tomato eaters, huh?

My mother cooked them too, with a little flour/oil crust.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: fencerider on February 04, 2018, 03:09:32 AM
O.P. so true. Whenever science is in conflict with their religion, they would prefer to dismiss the science as false instead of trying to figure out what is wrong with their religion. Unfortunately for so many their religion takes presidence over everything. When an incompetent person like Trump is in office they see what’s going on and say “He’s only a politician. It’s not like he is somebody important like our pastor”. Crazy people in D.C. could completely destroy the U.S., but as long as the D.C.ers take out a couple of homosexuals on the way, they are OK with it.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 04, 2018, 07:55:12 AM
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O.P. so true. Whenever science is in conflict with their religion, they would prefer to dismiss the science as false instead of trying to figure out what is wrong with their religion. Unfortunately for so many their religion takes presidence over everything. When an incompetent person like Trump is in office they see what’s going on and say “He’s only a politician. It’s not like he is somebody important like our pastor”. Crazy people in D.C. could completely destroy the U.S., but as long as the D.C.ers take out a couple of homosexuals on the way, they are OK with it.

Good thing Hillary is still working away in her Fortress of Solitude ;-(
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 05:34:43 AM
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An American doctor in colonial times.  But he was eating red tomatoes.  And they used to be called "love apples" because they were rumored to be used by suicidal lovers.

Ah, the poms de amour.  Yeah, I know I butchered that...
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on February 07, 2018, 01:29:18 PM
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Ah, the poms de amour.  Yeah, I know I butchered that...
I think you pronounced it quite correctly. I didn't know you could speak French so well!
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: SGOS on February 07, 2018, 02:02:45 PM
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I tried putting a small amount on the top and passed the bowl.  Evidently, that was correct.  Or they followed my lead.  Who knows?  I asked her later about it and she was surprised.  They ate pasta with only a little thin sauce on top.
I'm big on the sauce.  I have done it the thin way, and it was OK, but kind of missing a little.  I'm all for pouring it on the way you like it best.  To me, spaghetti is about the sauce.  What can you say about pasta, unless you actually make your own.   If you like near straight pasta, I'm not going to fault that.  Some people do.

Also, of all the things I have cooked for guests, my spaghetti sauce is the one most frequently requested.  Everything else usually passes with the ordinary polite comments one would expect as a host.  I make it big and chunky.  I cut but never dice ingredients.  A woman served it that way to my wife and I once, and I have forever tried to follow her lead, always wondering how I'm doing.  But it's the kind of thing little kids won't like.  To many junks of strange things like mushrooms and olives, things that must be questioned before they are tasted and spit out.

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cheerful Charlie on February 07, 2018, 05:46:03 PM
There is the question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?".  Their answer is God.  But the why is there a God rather than no God?  The fact is there is something rather than nothing.  We are just debating what that something is.  And why we should think that something was God.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: SGOS on February 07, 2018, 06:20:22 PM
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There is the question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?".  Their answer is God.  But the why is there a God rather than no God?  The fact is there is something rather than nothing.  We are just debating what that something is.  And why we should think that something was God.
I personally think there was something before, or maybe what we conceive of as nothing is not that at all.  But what I "think" doesn't matter one iota, because no one knows and the only thing left to do after that is sit around in armchairs talking philosophically, while blowing smoke up our own asses and sounding all lofty to the bystanders who are just there trying to buy a sandwich.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 08:39:10 PM
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There is the question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?".  Their answer is God.  But the why is there a God rather than no God?  The fact is there is something rather than nothing.  We are just debating what that something is.  And why we should think that something was God.

Cause/effect is primitive thinking.  Study David Hume.  Besides that, the Big Bang simply doesn't matter, unless you watch it on TV ;-)  What has happened in less than the past 100 years, is pretty much all that impacts my life.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 08:41:10 PM
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I personally think there was something before, or maybe what we conceive of as nothing is not that at all.  But what I "think" doesn't matter one iota, because no one knows and the only thing left to do after that is sit around in armchairs talking philosophically, while blowing smoke up our own asses and sounding all lofty to the bystanders who are just there trying to buy a sandwich.

They do it better in London than here ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpcAhwrL368
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: SGOS on February 07, 2018, 09:10:17 PM
The bystanders are pretty much like the ones I've seen here.  Who cares what the debate is about?  "Hey everyone, we got some live ones over here."  Everyone just seems to be happy that there is a fuss going on.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 09:17:31 PM
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The bystanders are pretty much like the ones I've seen here.  Who cares what the debate is about?  "Hey everyone, we got some live ones over here."  Everyone just seems to be happy that there is a fuss going on.

We can't tell here, in text, what awesome accents our British friends have ;-(
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on February 08, 2018, 01:53:25 PM
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There is the question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?".  Their answer is God.  But the why is there a God rather than no God?  The fact is there is something rather than nothing.  We are just debating what that something is.  And why we should think that something was God.
According to Lawrence Krauss "nothing is unstable," since there is exactly only one way for there to be nothing, but an infinite number of ways for there to be something. So something is overwhelmingly more likely to exist than for nothing to exist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5A2OVYJkFk

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: trdsf on February 08, 2018, 02:00:39 PM
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There is the question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?".  Their answer is God.  But the why is there a God rather than no God?  The fact is there is something rather than nothing.  We are just debating what that something is.  And why we should think that something was God.
My preferred answer to that is, "Because if there were nothing, you wouldn't be here to ask that question." :)
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 04:07:11 AM
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According to Lawrence Krauss "nothing is unstable," since there is exactly only one way for there to be nothing, but an infinite number of ways for there to be something. So something is overwhelmingly more likely to exist than for nothing to exist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5A2OVYJkFk

There is something rather than nothing, because otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing anything.  Not that I'm saying that is a CAUSE, but if there is Nothing, then no one is around to discuss that.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 06:50:15 AM
That is why the question of "all or nothing" is nonsense.  Logical Positivism is partially correct, in that some metaphysical questions are nonsense.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: popsthebuilder on February 09, 2018, 06:51:45 AM
Why can I not like posts here?

Post #47, above is simple and honest and deserving of a thumbs up or a like or a thank or something, but I can do not of those things.

What is the avatar name for a mod that I can discuss such with?

Good post cavebear.

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Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 06:54:25 AM
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Why can I not like posts here?

Post #47, above is simple and honest and deserving of a thumbs up or a like or a thank or something, but I can do not of those things.

What is the avatar name for a mod that I can discuss such with?

Good post cavebear.

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Your Javascript is turned off.  I have a direct flag I can twiddle.  I have to use it on some websites because of ads.  You may have a direct twiddle, or have some kind of equivalent ad blocker.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: popsthebuilder on February 09, 2018, 06:55:54 AM
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Your Javascript is turned off.  I have a direct flag I can twiddle.  I have to use it on some websites because of ads.  You may have a direct twiddle, or have some kind of equivalent ad blocker.
I still get ads on this app, and can like posts on other forums through this app.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:04:16 AM
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I still get ads on this app, and can like posts on other forums through this app.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Do your apps or op get pushed updates from a mother-ship?  We have that at work, things break all the time.  I am in IT ... I can suggest ...

1. Reboot ap
2. Reboot device

Hard to imagine how many computer users don't do that first.  Most do, but not all.

Of course it could be that they patched this website, or the hosting platform.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: popsthebuilder on February 09, 2018, 07:09:24 AM
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Do your apps or op get pushed updates from a mother-ship?  We have that at work, things break all the time.  I am in IT ... I can suggest ...

1. Reboot ap
2. Reboot device

Hard to imagine how many computer users don't do that first.  Most do, but not all.

Of course it could be that they patched this website, or the hosting platform.
I get updates from the main app relating to all forums I take interest in.

The app is updated and my phone is reset every few days generally.

Please excuse my ignorance.

Technology has come a long way since my intro to programming in turbo pascal

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Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:23:30 AM
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I get updates from the main app relating to all forums I take interest in.

The app is updated and my phone is reset every few days generally.

Please excuse my ignorance.

Technology has come a long way since my intro to programming in turbo pascal

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Turbo Pascal ... now there is a real man's language ;-)

Unfortunately, not all updates play well together.  Sometimes a browser has a (backward) compatibility mode.  IE does.  Try that, to try to null out patch chaos.  Argh!  Worst case, a broken patch broke your system ;-(  Double Argh!!
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 05:07:15 AM
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Why can I not like posts here?

Post #47, above is simple and honest and deserving of a thumbs up or a like or a thank or something, but I can do not of those things.

What is the avatar name for a mod that I can discuss such with?

Good post cavebear.

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You might want to check for browser updates, security updates, and if you have strong security, it might be blocking some options...
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cheerful Charlie on March 17, 2018, 12:31:04 AM
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Green tomatoes are still poisonous.  You can't eat them raw.  Only the big green worms eat the leaves!
...

I tried growing cherry tomatoes for a few years.  Until the squirrels discovered them.  Squirrels will eat tomatoes.  And if they couldn't find ripe ones, the little furry bastards ate them while still green.  From that point on I never saw a ripe cherry tomato ever again.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on March 17, 2018, 03:03:23 AM
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I tried growing cherry tomatoes for a few years.  Until the squirrels discovered them.  Squirrels will eat tomatoes.  And if they couldn't find ripe ones, the little furry bastards ate them while still green.  From that point on I never saw a ripe cherry tomato ever again.

I had the same problem.  I built a garden enclosure 20'x20'x8'h covered with chicken wire.  And if you don't want to do THAT, get a small Have-A-Hart live trap, bait it with peanut butter and dump the cage in a tub of water when you catch one.

You will never get rid of all the squirrels, but it takes them a while to discover tomatoes can be eaten, so you can stay ahead of them about that.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: fencerider on March 18, 2018, 02:03:53 AM
them fellers on Duck Dynasty say that squirrels is good eatin.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on March 18, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
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them fellers on Duck Dynasty say that squirrels is good eatin.

And you certainly can.  But after years of chewing cautiously around bits of squirrels and doves to avoid breaking my teeth on #9 shot I lost my taste for small game.  I will admit that a drowned squirrel would be a lot easier to deal with.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Unbeliever on March 18, 2018, 05:31:19 PM
You could put out a bowl of booze, or maybe some fermented crabapples, get 'em drunk, and then just grab 'em and throw 'em in the pot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikH9ZRcF2Q

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on March 20, 2018, 03:26:11 AM
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You could put out a bowl of booze, or maybe some fermented crabapples, get 'em drunk, and then just grab 'em and throw 'em in the pot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikH9ZRcF2Q

Well, peanut butter smeared on the lever in a small Have-A-Hart trap works well too.  I just find it easier to dunk and bury them next to a tree as fertilizer than bothering to skin and gut them.  I don't need them as food.  But if I did, I sure could catch a lot, and when I was younger, I sure did that.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cheerful Charlie on March 24, 2018, 02:56:18 AM
I tried regular tomatoes, but the sparrows pecked at them and ruined them.  Netting et al could help but the cost was such it was far cheaper to just buy the #$#!! tomatoes and be doe with it.  My gardening efforts were pretty much a bust.  Squash borers destroy my squash.  Various viruses destroyed the cucumbers.  Cabbages, bok choi et all were destroyed by moth larva, and other pests.  If I had to rely on gardening for food, I'd starve to death.  What was good to eat soon got et by raccoons and possums.  Squirrels soon learned to dig up my sweet potatoes.
The only thing I can successfully grow seems to be broccoli.  I found out the hard way that there is nothing squirrels love so much as sweet potatoes.  Last go around, I would plant my slips, little starter plants for starting sweet potatoes and the $##$$!! squirrels within an hour would uproot them.  Replant, and then uprooted. Until they were dead.

Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: SGOS on March 24, 2018, 05:20:26 AM
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I tried regular tomatoes, but the sparrows pecked at them and ruined them.  Netting et al could help but the cost was such it was far cheaper to just buy the #$#!! tomatoes and be doe with it.
I have horrible soil, and I don't like gardening anyway, although I do like the idea of it and like watching things grow, so I bought giant flower pots, top soil, and compost from Lowes, built wire cages and a drip irrigation system, and I grew decent tomatoes.  Two plants will give me more tomatoes than I need, so I'm eating bacon-lettuce-tomato sandwiches every day, and sometimes for supper.

It's true that homegrown is better than store bought, and those things they sell in the produce section during the winter months shouldn't even be called tomatoes, but in the summer, the homegrown/store bought difference is almost a wash.  Besides that, there is a roadside stand 4 miles from my house that sells garden tomatoes, so last summer I decided not to bother growing them.  With all the potted gardening monkey business, I don't think it cost me anymore to buy them, and I didn't have to fuss at all.  I may grow tomatoes this summer.  I haven't decided, but I can't justify growing my own on economics because that is of no importance to me, and I can't say my tomatoes are better (well maybe a little better), but it's too close to a wash to use as an excuse.  To me, the only reason to grow your own is because you like doing it.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Blackleaf on March 24, 2018, 07:36:24 PM
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I tried regular tomatoes, but the sparrows pecked at them and ruined them.  Netting et al could help but the cost was such it was far cheaper to just buy the #$#!! tomatoes and be doe with it.  My gardening efforts were pretty much a bust.  Squash borers destroy my squash.  Various viruses destroyed the cucumbers.  Cabbages, bok choi et all were destroyed by moth larva, and other pests.  If I had to rely on gardening for food, I'd starve to death.  What was good to eat soon got et by raccoons and possums.  Squirrels soon learned to dig up my sweet potatoes.
The only thing I can successfully grow seems to be broccoli.  I found out the hard way that there is nothing squirrels love so much as sweet potatoes.  Last go around, I would plant my slips, little starter plants for starting sweet potatoes and the $##$$!! squirrels within an hour would uproot them.  Replant, and then uprooted. Until they were dead.

I have to wonder how people used to survive on farm grown goods. So many animals just love to profit off of human hard work.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Baruch on March 24, 2018, 09:21:18 PM
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I have to wonder how people used to survive on farm grown goods. So many animals just love to profit off of human hard work.

I have known one woman, younger than me, who grew up eating squirrel.  I have never eaten one.  These people live in the hills, and don't have running water, and use an out-house to potty with.  Hunting and fishing are natural ... and necessary to avoid starvation because of destruction of crops and sickness of livestock.  And in their Sunday services they might even handle rattlesnakes.  Don't despise the folks who will outlive anything that will kill lesser people.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: trdsf on March 25, 2018, 12:31:27 PM
Since I rent an apartment, my gardening is limited to what flowerpots I can fit on my windowsills.  Right now I have two basil plants and three garlic going -- the third garlic was something of a surprise because I thought it had died... and now it's a week later and it's sprouting again.

I am going to have some *amazing* home-made pesto later this year.

Also, garlic greens are fantastically delicious and should be more available than they are.
Title: Re: The Giant Apologetic Switcheroo
Post by: Cavebear on March 25, 2018, 08:26:25 PM
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I have horrible soil, and I don't like gardening anyway, although I do like the idea of it and like watching things grow, so I bought giant flower pots, top soil, and compost from Lowes, built wire cages and a drip irrigation system, and I grew decent tomatoes.  Two plants will give me more tomatoes than I need, so I'm eating bacon-lettuce-tomato sandwiches every day, and sometimes for supper.

It's true that homegrown is better than store bought, and those things they sell in the produce section during the winter months shouldn't even be called tomatoes, but in the summer, the homegrown/store bought difference is almost a wash.  Besides that, there is a roadside stand 4 miles from my house that sells garden tomatoes, so last summer I decided not to bother growing them.  With all the potted gardening monkey business, I don't think it cost me anymore to buy them, and I didn't have to fuss at all.  I may grow tomatoes this summer.  I haven't decided, but I can't justify growing my own on economics because that is of no importance to me, and I can't say my tomatoes are better (well maybe a little better), but it's too close to a wash to use as an excuse.  To me, the only reason to grow your own is because you like doing it.

You need to build raised frame beds to grow in.  You completely control the soil that way.  And after the initial effort, it isn't hard to maintain.  Farm stands don't grow the good crops; they grow the commercial ones.  And those aren't worth eating because THEY chill th harvested tomatoes just like the grocery stores and that destroys the parts of the tomatoes that give all the flavor.  Try a homegrown Cherokee Purple or Brandywine and you will be shocked at the difference.