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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: pr126 on December 31, 2017, 02:03:07 PM

Title: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: pr126 on December 31, 2017, 02:03:07 PM
Trigger warning!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85q6BOnwIAQ
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 02:14:27 PM
Yeah, kids, listen to the nazis.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on December 31, 2017, 02:44:16 PM
Quote from: pr126 on December 31, 2017, 02:03:07 PM
Trigger warning!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85q6BOnwIAQ
Your baking is out of this world!  Your politics are simply brain-dead, fucking stupid. 
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 02:54:45 PM
Well, Horst Wessel Lied, and PR can too!
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Jason78 on December 31, 2017, 04:10:19 PM
How can they be so intolerant of intolerance?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mermaid on December 31, 2017, 04:13:27 PM
That's it. I am converted. You convinced me!
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Shiranu on December 31, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iX2RMyw.gif)
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Blackleaf on December 31, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
Go to college. Maybe you'll learn a few things.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on December 31, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iX2RMyw.gif)
Yeah, that's a plan. Let the alt-right propagandize without response.

Nope.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Shiranu on December 31, 2017, 05:08:36 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
Yeah, that's a plan. Let the alt-right propagandize without response.

Nope.

Yall seemed to be doing a fine enough job, so I figured I would take a break for once.


Though I would also argue that indifferently laughing at them is a response in the same vein as has been used here. A more productive use of my time would probably be to watch the video and destroy it point by point... but it's New Years, and I ain't in the mood for that.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 06:21:11 PM
I've had double pneumonia since Nov. 27th, antibiotic resistant. I have spare time.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Blackleaf on December 31, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on December 31, 2017, 05:08:36 PM
Yall seemed to be doing a fine enough job, so I figured I would take a break for once.


Though I would also argue that indifferently laughing at them is a response in the same vein as has been used here. A more productive use of my time would probably be to watch the video and destroy it point by point... but it's New Years, and I ain't in the mood for that.

There are some things too stupid to bother arguing against. Watching the video would only result in me losing a few brain cells. And when you start with a sarcastic "trigger warning," you've already lost the right to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 06:21:11 PM
I've had double pneumonia since Nov. 27th, antibiotic resistant. I have spare time.

Please take care and get well.  That is a serious thing for us seniors.  You don't smoke, do you?  If you do, it is past time to stop it.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 31, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
Go to college. Maybe you'll learn a few things.

Unnecessary, thanks to Youtube documentaries.  I don't need anyone past the age of 30 to tell me anything, at 15 I already knew it all! ;-)
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 07:14:55 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 02:14:27 PM
Yeah, kids, listen to the nazis.

Pat Condell seems to be from the Enoch Powell school of British politics.  Both have ultimately Irish origins.  Don't think Condell was a Black Shirt back in the day, he isn't old enough.  Enoch Powell was a brigadier in WW II ... what did you do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell ... definitely old school

Is anyone to the right of Ho Chi Minh ... a Nazi?  The Vietnam War was definitely the wrong war ... but the victory of the North Vietnamese, while hard earned, didn't validate all the feral college students back in the US.  I would have drafted all of them, you hear me Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 07:15:45 PM
Quote from: Mermaid on December 31, 2017, 04:13:27 PM
That's it. I am converted. You convinced me!

Good.  Will mail you a bunch of Atheist Lighthouse tracts to take door to door ;-)
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 31, 2017, 07:59:33 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 31, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
And when you start with a sarcastic "trigger warning," you've already lost the right to be taken seriously.
That's the alt-right expecting their "information" to be shocking to the soft left. The arrogance is endemic.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Shiranu on December 31, 2017, 08:20:49 PM
I have a bit of free time before I go hit the square, so I'll watch what I can...

0:00-0:07 - "They say great minds think alike, and the same can be said of tiny ones, particularly closed ones."

Holy shit, I see why pr likes and agrees with this guy already.

0:10ish-0:38 - UKIP getting shouted down by students.

You know, I have a hard time shedding tears for them being "silenced" (which is complete B.S. anyways, they have a perfectly clear voice) when they are advocating inhumane policies against refugees and are in favour of sending them back to their death because they look scary.

When you are advocating murdering women and children because you are a coward, I have a hard time sympathizing with you.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Munch on December 31, 2017, 08:46:35 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 07:14:55 PM
Pat Condell seems to be from the Enoch Powell school of British politics.  Both have ultimately Irish origins.  Don't think Condell was a Black Shirt back in the day, he isn't old enough.  Enoch Powell was a brigadier in WW II ... what did you do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell ... definitely old school

Is anyone to the right of Ho Chi Minh ... a Nazi?  The Vietnam War was definitely the wrong war ... but the victory of the North Vietnamese, while hard earned, didn't validate all the feral college students back in the US.  I would have drafted all of them, you hear me Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney?

its the go to retort when a valid argument can't be made. Condell is a guy from a different era well beyond todays advocates, and while having watch a few of his videos I know some of his views aren't agreed upon, he does often give a speech and tells it like it is, he is proud of his own country and doesn't want to see it turn to shit by poor choices, and he is old enough to remember past examples that certain people can only read about.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2017, 10:12:32 PM
Quote from: Munch on December 31, 2017, 08:46:35 PM
its the go to retort when a valid argument can't be made. Condell is a guy from a different era well beyond todays advocates, and while having watch a few of his videos I know some of his views aren't agreed upon, he does often give a speech and tells it like it is, he is proud of his own country and doesn't want to see it turn to shit by poor choices, and he is old enough to remember past examples that certain people can only read about.

The British Empire is done.  You should all learn French and marry African people, so you can be just like Paris ;-)  Or learn German and marry Turks, like Berlin ;-))  So I guess the French Empire and German Empires are done now too.  Aww.

First rule ... if the Austro-Hungarian Imperial Crown Prince and his wife get assassinated in Sarajevo ... ignore it next time.  Also be sure that Gandhi meets up with some lions while he is still in S Africa.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 31, 2017, 10:29:49 PM
I wasn't going to comment but since I only have a couple of hours left on this website, what the hell.

I agree with this guy's basic point that students should be willing to listen to disagreeable, offensive ideas and that speakers who have been legitimately invited to speak at universities shouldn't be shouted down. I don't think every crackpot should be invited to speak and I am all for protests but let invited speakers have their say. This perception that conservative speakers are being silenced on university campuses is intentionally being exaggerated, at least in the US. Progressive and conservatives speak at universities across the country every day without incident.

That said, this guy is part of the problem, not the solution. He is insulting, rude and clearly isn't willing to listen to anyone who doesn't share his ideology. He presents himself as a closed-minded, intolerant person criticizing others for being closed-minded and intolerant. He complains students have false moral superiority and then asserts false moral superiority. He complains students are emotionally invested in their arguments while clearly EXTREMELY emotionally invested in his own. He says students will look back at their behavior in regret but honestly, I cringed watching a man his age make such a vulgar rant.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 12:00:40 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 31, 2017, 10:29:49 PM
I wasn't going to comment but since I only have a couple of hours left on this website, what the hell.

I agree with this guy's basic point that students should be willing to listen to disagreeable, offensive ideas and that speakers who have been legitimately invited to speak at universities shouldn't be shouted down. I don't think every crackpot should be invited to speak and I am all for protests but let invited speakers have their say. This perception that conservative speakers are being silenced on university campuses is intentionally being exaggerated, at least in the US. Progressive and conservatives speak at universities across the country every day without incident.

That said, this guy is part of the problem, not the solution. He is insulting, rude and clearly isn't willing to listen to anyone who doesn't share his ideology. He presents himself as a closed-minded, intolerant person criticizing others for being closed-minded and intolerant. He complains students have false moral superiority and then asserts false moral superiority. He complains students are emotionally invested in their arguments while clearly EXTREMELY emotionally invested in his own. He says students will look back at their behavior in regret but honestly, I cringed watching a man his age make such a vulgar rant.

I understand your point.  But I turn off even MSNBC when they have some dimwit evading answering questions. 

If I was 20, it would be good to listen to all points of view.  But I'm 67 and I'm heard all the bullsh*t for so many years.  I don't need to listen to some former frat guy channelling Ayn Rand to know the difference between theory and stupidity.

I liked Ayn Rand somewhat when I was 20 myself.  It works for me, personnally.  But then I caught on to the idea that individuals don't build roads.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 12:00:40 PM
I understand your point.  But I turn off even MSNBC when they have some dimwit evading answering questions. 

If I was 20, it would be good to listen to all points of view.  But I'm 67 and I'm heard all the bullsh*t for so many years.  I don't need to listen to some former frat guy channelling Ayn Rand to know the difference between theory and stupidity.

I liked Ayn Rand somewhat when I was 20 myself.  It works for me, personnally.  But then I caught on to the idea that individuals don't build roads.

Correct, but no kudos, because you refuse mine.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Correct, but no kudos, because you refuse mine.

Built all the roads yourself, you did?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
Built all the roads yourself, you did?

No I was into Ayn Rand when I was a kid, too.  But it is pretty easy to see thru a fiction.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 04:21:18 PM
No I was into Ayn Rand when I was a kid, too.  But it is pretty easy to see thru a fiction.

You dare say you are agin her in the Trump regime?  To Bannon with you!
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
You dare say you are agin her in the Trump regime?  To Bannon with you!

Bannon is in disgrace, fired from Breitbart.  He was shown the real Zapruder film.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on January 10, 2018, 07:28:59 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 04:21:18 PM
No I was into Ayn Rand when I was a kid, too.  But it is pretty easy to see thru a fiction.
Except when it comes to the fiction of G_d, eh??
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 10, 2018, 07:28:59 PM
Except when it comes to the fiction of G_d, eh??

What other people say ... fiction.  I didn't write Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand did.  I don't base my religion on the Bible ... and yeah, I didn't write that either.

What happens when you dismiss all ideas ... Satori?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Sal1981 on January 11, 2018, 05:56:46 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 08:24:10 PM
What other people say ... fiction.  I didn't write Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand did.  I don't base my religion on the Bible ... and yeah, I didn't write that either.

What happens when you dismiss all ideas ... Satori?
Literal nihilism is what.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 06:33:31 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 11, 2018, 05:56:46 AM
Literal nihilism is what.

Mike CL and Unbeliever claim to be nihilists, yet they still have ideas and words.  They need to work harder, or join a Zen monastery to do it right.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 10:47:20 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 06:33:31 AM
Mike CL and Unbeliever claim to be nihilists, yet they still have ideas and words.  They need to work harder, or join a Zen monastery to do it right.
You love to define me.  Ah, what the hell, gives you something to do.  And as you know, I don't fit into any one niche very well.  And you too, need to work harder in your belief in G_d, or join a monastery to do it right.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 06:33:31 AM
Mike CL and Unbeliever claim to be nihilists, yet they still have ideas and words.  They need to work harder, or join a Zen monastery to do it right.
Or you need to learn just what the word nihilism means. There's political nihilism, which I don't believe, and there's philosophical nihilism, which I do believe, which to me simply means that there is no inherent meaning or purpose in the universe (or the multiverse, for that matter). I believe a few other things that I can't prove, as well, such as the quilted multiverse hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Quilted), but I can discern no meaning or purpose in existence other than that which I generate from within myself.

Can you?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 10:47:20 AM
You love to define me.  Ah, what the hell, gives you something to do.  And as you know, I don't fit into any one niche very well.  And you too, need to work harder in your belief in G_d, or join a monastery to do it right.

I believe you and Unbeliever both made that claim.  Disclaim if you like.  I would like it if you both did.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
Or you need to learn just what the word nihilism means. There's political nihilism, which I don't believe, and there's philosophical nihilism, which I do believe, which to me simply means that there is no inherent meaning or purpose in the universe (or the multiverse, for that matter). I believe a few other things that I can't prove, as well, such as the quilted multiverse hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Quilted), but I can discern no meaning or purpose in existence other than that which I generate from within myself.

Can you?

Much better.  You didn't give me a link, that may or may not be your opinion.

Yes, meaning as in "the universe has meaning" ... yes, it doesn't.  That is consistent with the usual atheism (there is no universal god).  If there was a universal god, then we could suppose that the meaning is the purpose, and that universal god might have a purpose.

Political nihilism ... meaning ... just realize that some craziness isn't worth participating in?  I can get behind that.  I consider the government to be a violent gang, and I participate because of that fact, not because I buy into any ideology it has.  I think that is nihilistic enough, yes?

See my post under Philosophy etc ... Sociology 101.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
I believe you and Unbeliever both made that claim.  Disclaim if you like.  I would like it if you both did.
Unbeliever stated it quite nicely, thank you. :)
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:43:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 02:34:12 PM
Unbeliever stated it quite nicely, thank you. :)

Meaning does come from within yourselves ... and then you proclaim that meaning to be invalid.  Self hate?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:43:35 PM
and then you proclaim that meaning to be invalid.
Uh...when did that happen?
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:58:21 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 07:45:49 PM
Uh...when did that happen?

Only what is external to you is real, right?  And since there is no universal external meaning (I agree), then any meaning found internally is invalid.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 08:01:54 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:58:21 PM
Only what is external to you is real, right?
When did I ever say or imply that?


QuoteAnd since there is no universal external meaning (I agree), then any meaning found internally is invalid.
Any meaning found internally is the only valid thing.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Blackleaf on January 11, 2018, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:58:21 PM
Only what is external to you is real, right?  And since there is no universal external meaning (I agree), then any meaning found internally is invalid.

You're trying too hard, Baruch.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 08:49:29 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 07:43:35 PM
Meaning does come from within yourselves ... and then you proclaim that meaning to be invalid.  Self hate?
There you go again--twisting what has been said.  You do like to irritate, don't you; and you don't hold yourself to any level of accuracy, do you.  That part of your personality has surprised me.  Anyway, I have said time and again, that the universe does not supply any meaning whatsoever.  The only meaning one can ever get from one's life is a subjective, self applied, meaning.  I never said that that was unimportant or invalid.  For me, it is all important.  I have found meaning and imagine I'll always find it.  But it is only my meaning.  I cannot give it to somebody else; not even children or loved ones.  I may not even be able to articulate it very well, but that does not make it invalid for me.  For you, my life's meaning(s) are not invalid; you can't really know what they are, so my meanings of life are meaningless for you.  Something cannot be invalid if you don't know what they are.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 12, 2018, 07:00:14 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 11, 2018, 08:01:54 PM
When did I ever say or imply that?


Any meaning found internally is the only valid thing.

No true nihilist then.  Being anti-politics isn't nihilism, it is anarchism.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Baruch on January 12, 2018, 07:06:39 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 11, 2018, 08:49:29 PM
There you go again--twisting what has been said.  You do like to irritate, don't you; and you don't hold yourself to any level of accuracy, do you.  That part of your personality has surprised me.  Anyway, I have said time and again, that the universe does not supply any meaning whatsoever.  The only meaning one can ever get from one's life is a subjective, self applied, meaning.  I never said that that was unimportant or invalid.  For me, it is all important.  I have found meaning and imagine I'll always find it.  But it is only my meaning.  I cannot give it to somebody else; not even children or loved ones.  I may not even be able to articulate it very well, but that does not make it invalid for me.  For you, my life's meaning(s) are not invalid; you can't really know what they are, so my meanings of life are meaningless for you.  Something cannot be invalid if you don't know what they are.

I seek my own clarity, not yours.  I would phrase it differently.  You aren't your own species, entirely different from all other humans, entirely different from all other life forms.  Most of what you experience, and what you mean, is what we all share.  Or are you just showing social isolation perhaps?  And no, I ask to clarify, not to irritate.  Sorry if it seems like the Inquisition, but maybe that is my Spanish ancestry.  Nobody Expects Baruch!

We are all sociopaths, particularly Americans.  But there are degrees of sociopathy.  For many of us, it lies in politics.

We probably all experience brief moments of antipathy ... like I did, wanting all Russians dead, this morning.  The feeling passed, and I know it is wrong, all feelings are wrong, am I right?  Vulcans.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Mike Cl on January 12, 2018, 09:07:37 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2018, 07:06:39 AM
I seek my own clarity, not yours.  I would phrase it differently.  You aren't your own species, entirely different from all other humans, entirely different from all other life forms.  Most of what you experience, and what you mean, is what we all share.  Or are you just showing social isolation perhaps?  And no, I ask to clarify, not to irritate.  Sorry if it seems like the Inquisition, but maybe that is my Spanish ancestry.  Nobody Expects Baruch!

We are all sociopaths, particularly Americans.  But there are degrees of sociopathy.  For many of us, it lies in politics.

We probably all experience brief moments of antipathy ... like I did, wanting all Russians dead, this morning.  The feeling passed, and I know it is wrong, all feelings are wrong, am I right?  Vulcans.
You very well could be seeking clarity.  Laudable.  But you do so in the form of statements and not questions.  So, your seeking of clarity looks and feels like you are putting words in my mouth and thoughts into my head, not asking about, or even testing, what I said or meant.  "And no, I ask to clarify, not to irritate."  That's just it--you don't ask, you pontificate--you make a flat statement about what I have said; you don't ask.
Title: Re: A Word To Left-Wing Students
Post by: Cavebear on January 18, 2018, 05:50:35 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 11, 2018, 05:56:46 AM
Literal nihilism is what.

Being against some things is not the same as being against "everything".  Nihilism is never functional.