Yesterday a guy plowed through a bunch of Australian who were Christmas shopping. An afghani refugee who cried he did it becuase of the treatment of Muslims throughout the world. Also a history of mental illnesses. The Aussie police is saying it’s not terrorism becuase they don’t have a link to a terrorist group. Say what you want, but a guy ramming a bunch of people peacefully shopping. Is terrorism to me.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security/australia-police-say-dont-suspect-terrorism-after-car-plows-into-pedestrians-idUSKBN1EF0JG?il=0
It is just part of daily life for the unbeliever.
Get used to it. There will be more to come - anytime, anywhere.
Mayor of London chimes in (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html)
Of course, we do have an answer to all this. Flowers, candles, teddy bears, and the usual slogan:
#NOTALLMUSLIMS.
Then forget about it until the next time. Unless a relative is maimed or dead.
Since you are the Islam expert pr, are "True Muslims" Qu'ranicly allowed to be drug addicts?
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
Since you are the Islam expert pr, are "True Muslims" Qu'ranicly allowed to be drug addicts?
It isn't that ... there are no true Scotsmen ... but that there are no true humans. Let everyone out of jail, let people do anything they want. Freedom!
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
Since you are the Islam expert pr, are "True Muslims" Qu'ranicly allowed to be drug addicts?
Allah has a word for these so called moderate muslims he calls them Munafiqs (hypocrites).
As for drugs perhaps you should read this about Ayatollah Khamanei maybe he knows something about Islam.
Iranian leadership addicted to opium?
Politics in ’The Islamic Republic of Heroin’- https://www.kabulpress.org/article3733.html
Quote from: baronvonrort on December 22, 2017, 06:25:29 PM
Allah has a word for these so called moderate muslims he calls them Munafiqs (hypocrites).
As for drugs perhaps you should read this about Ayatollah Khamanei maybe he knows something about Islam.
Iranian leadership addicted to opium?
Politics in ’The Islamic Republic of Heroin’- https://www.kabulpress.org/article3733.html (https://www.kabulpress.org/article3733.html)
I'm not asking if Muslims are addicted to drugs (spoiler alert; they are), I'm asking if you can be a "True Muslim" if you are a drug addict, since the Qu'ran is very explicit about drugs/alcohol being the work of the devil and multiple Hadiths stating that anyone who consumes these things will be barred entry into Jannah.
I'm well aware of the opium problem in the Middle East. The point I am making is that if we are going to say Islam is the root cause of this violence, because they are so devoutly Muslim, then we need to examine just how "devoutly Muslim" they actually are. And a devout Muslim would never be addicted to drugs. They are no more "devout Muslims" than Westborough are "devout" followers of Christ's teachings, or the Buddhists who murder and commit genocide against the Rohinga are devout Buddhists.
Likewise this is yet again ignoring the reasons the actual person gave, and saying that "you" (pr) know what REALLY is going on in their head, and not the person themselves. The inherent folly there, besides the fact that you have zero knowledge of what's really in their head, is that the dude is a drug addict; trying to rationalize his thoughts is moronic as it is.
Just like any other drug crazed hoodlum. His skin, his culture, his neighborhood might not be as relevant as his drug habit. But are those things unrelated?
Quote from: Baruch on December 22, 2017, 06:42:02 PM
Just like any other drug crazed hoodlum. His skin, his culture, his neighborhood might not be as relevant as his drug habit. But are those things unrelated?
I don't know Australia socio-economics, but I would assume they follow the same trend as as America's; poorer groups tend to have higher rates of drug use, particularly hard drug use, than richer groups. Immigrant and ethnic minorities tend to have a higher rate of being impoverished, so the odds of an immigrant being a drug user is higher than a native Australian.
Culture is relevant, but not in a statement about the culture's values but rather the fact that minority cultures tend to be lower-class citizens than majority cultures.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 06:46:43 PM
I don't know Australia socio-economics, but I would assume they follow the same trend as as America's; poorer groups tend to have higher rates of drug use, particularly hard drug use, than richer groups. Immigrant and ethnic minorities tend to have a higher rate of being impoverished, so the odds of an immigrant being a drug user is higher than a native Australian.
Culture is relevant, but not in a statement about the culture's values but rather the fact that minority cultures tend to be lower-class citizens than majority cultures.
Yep life is unfair. Upper class dudes use more expensive drugs, and use banks to rob people, instead of rob banks.
Yes, the cause for the 14 centuries old jihad (religious war) is drugs, socio-economics, disenfranchisement, oppression, but never ever Islam.
Because Islam can never be the cause. Never. Everybody knows that.
The perpetrators are not real Muslims. The Quran forbids the killing of innocents.
Islam is peace.
The Crusades, the Inquisition the witch burnings are of course can be attributed to Christianity, and not to drugs, socio-economics, disenfranchisement, or oppression.
Never forget the Crusades!
Quote from: pr126 on December 22, 2017, 11:31:56 PM
Yes, the cause for the 14 centuries old jihad (religious war) is drugs, socio-economics, disenfranchisement, oppression, but never ever Islam.
Because Islam can never be the cause. Never. Everybody knows that.
The perpetrators are not real Muslims. The Quran forbids the killing of innocents.
Islam is peace.
The Crusades, the Inquisition the witch burnings are of course can be attributed to Christianity, and not to drugs, socio-economics, disenfranchisement, or oppression.
Never forget the Crusades!
Remember, there is never bad karma is you oppress, rob or murder Jews. Gandhi said so.
QuoteYes, the cause for the 14 centuries old jihad (religious war) is drugs, socio-economics, disenfranchisement, oppression, but never ever Islam.
You yourself say all the time Islam is politics, so which is it; is it political (secular), or is it religious (spiritual)?
No one here is saying Islam doesn't have a role, but what people are saying is that just because something is done in the name of Islam does not mean that it is therefor 100% Islam's fault and we have to ignore any and every other possible influence, particularly when the perpetrator themselves give the reason they did the act and it isn't Islam.
It is, again, like saying the West Borough Baptists who are horrible human beings in the name of Christianity are only horrible human beings because Christianity is horrible, or more like-for-like that Buddhists who are, arguably, killing Muslims in the name of Buddhism therefor are making a statement about Buddhism. The reality is infinitely more nuanced than that, and by ignoring that nuance you are making sure no actual progress can be made. Or in even worse situations, you actively are involved in promoting regressive ideological thought that makes the situation even worse.
QuoteBecause Islam can never be the cause. Never. Everybody knows that.
Islam can be a cause, if not even the primary cause.
Even I said that, so who are you arguing against? Nothing you said is actually arguing against what anyone here believes, only arguing against what you think people believe. And that is why no one takes you seriously anymore.
I can only guess, but my guess is because you don't actually have any substance behind your fear. You can only repeat the same thing over and over, even when people agree with you, because you don't actually have any depth behind what you are saying.
What are your solutions? What is your answer to the problem? Do you have any, or are you sitting in the corner screeching hysterically? We get it, the Muslims are scary... now back it up, and propose solutions.
Pr126 solution, is to hide under the bed (it is an age thing).
A real Britain would reconquer the 3rd world, and send recent immigrants back their homes, to act as quisling administrators for the Queen.
QuoteWhat are your solutions? What is your answer to the problem? Do you have any, or are you sitting in the corner screeching hysterically? We get it, the Muslims are scary... now back it up, and propose solutions.
How many of our "elected" leaders in charge are offering ANY solutions? All? Some? None?
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 12:00:30 AM
How many of our "elected" leaders in charge are offering ANY solutions? All? Some? None?
They are all German agents.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 12:00:30 AM
How many of our "elected" leaders in charge are offering ANY solutions? All? Some? None?
I'm not asking for their solutions, I'm asking what are yours?
But to answer your question... Trump has made suggestions; ban them. Obama made suggestions; listen to what the moderates are saying, and work with them. In between, you have people offering varying levels of suggestions... and further extremes saying that we have to be their mortal enemy or unconditional friend.
Likewise some politicians have invested in furthering Western image in the Middle East and making the narrative of us being the bad guy less sellable; other's have double-downed and said we have to show force to get the respect we need and to eradicate our enemy.
There is no solution because there is no problem, to begin with.
This has been planned many decades ago with the full knowledge of the consequences.
Everything is going according to the plan. Yes, a few people are getting raped, maimed, killed.
Collateral damage.
All in a good cause, for the ultimate utopia that will happen. Soon. Insallah.
Globalisation. You will love it.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 12:38:13 AM
There is no solution because there is no problem, to begin with.
This has been planned many decades ago with the full knowledge of the consequences.
Everything is going according to the plan. Yes, a few people are getting raped, maimed, killed.
Collateral damage.
All in a good cause, for the ultimate utopia that will happen. Soon. Insallah.
Globalisation. You will love it.
I honestly don't get where you are going with this, because there are about 10 different directions off the top of my head you could be taking this.
The insallah is making me think you are saying that Muslim leadership is behind the push for globalization, but I don't want to assume that and then be completely wrong. But if it isn't, I don't see the relevance between this and the idea that there is no solution to the cultural conflict between West and Mid. East.
The globalist and Muslims are using each other to achieve the goal that they both crave, world domination.
In the end, there can be only one. It will be interesting to find out who will be the winner.
It is a zero-sum game.
If I was betting, I would put my money on Islam.
Why? Because Muslims believe that Allah has ordained them to rule. (Quran 2:193, 8:39)
They are focused, determined, their faith is a cohesive force, and they don’t mind dying for it.
Anyway, the final reckoning will be very messy.
What do you believe? Nothing. That is why you will lose.
Are you counting on the moderates? Don't.
When the chips fall, they will join their brothers en masse.
Or they will be killed as apostates.
Here is another one from San Franciso.
http://abc7news.com/fbi-man-planned-christmas-terror-attack-for-sfs-pier-39/2812473/
His letter proves that this has nothing to do with Islam.
It is socio-economic, oppression, drugs.
The letter (https://twitter.com/MelanieWoodrow/status/944289244364681216/photo/1)
What is in this ideology that turns people into mass murderers? Aren’t you curious?
All the answers are there to find out.
Some questions should not be asked. We might not like the answers.
Australia says it was a a mental illness problem, possibly drug-induced, not a terrorist attack. Even immigrants have mental problems. Can't imagine why they would. ;(
Mental problem is a good diagnosis. I agree with that.
It comes from a qualified shrink, does it not? Who had to make the diagnosis on the spot. Really?
Well, it is safer than blaming it on Islam. That's a no-no.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 04:24:12 AM
Mental problem is a good diagnosis. I agree with that.
It comes from a qualified shrink, does it not? Who had to make the diagnosis on the spot. Really?
Well, it is safer than blaming it on Islam. That's a no-no.
I think the Aussie gummint decided that after investigated the person.
I think that the Aussie gummint is lying.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 04:32:43 AM
I think that the Aussie gummint is lying.
As you wish. You don't have a great history of accuracy about these things. I prefer objective facts as determined by parties that do actually want to discover reality.
QuoteI prefer objective facts as determined by parties that do actually want to discover reality.
Interesting. Where do you get them from? Mainstream media?
Here is one not mainstream.
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg?)
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 06:32:31 PM
I'm not asking if Muslims are addicted to drugs (spoiler alert; they are), I'm asking if you can be a "True Muslim" if you are a drug addict, since the Qu'ran is very explicit about drugs/alcohol being the work of the devil and multiple Hadiths stating that anyone who consumes these things will be barred entry into Jannah.
I'm well aware of the opium problem in the Middle East. The point I am making is that if we are going to say Islam is the root cause of this violence, because they are so devoutly Muslim, then we need to examine just how "devoutly Muslim" they actually are. And a devout Muslim would never be addicted to drugs. They are no more "devout Muslims" than Westborough are "devout" followers of Christ's teachings, or the Buddhists who murder and commit genocide against the Rohinga are devout Buddhists.
Likewise this is yet again ignoring the reasons the actual person gave, and saying that "you" (pr) know what REALLY is going on in their head, and not the person themselves. The inherent folly there, besides the fact that you have zero knowledge of what's really in their head, is that the dude is a drug addict; trying to rationalize his thoughts is moronic as it is.
If drugs are haram you would think the Ayatollah Khomenei would avoid them because he would know what is written in the Quran, can you cite the verse from the Quran that says drugs are haram?
https://www.kabulpress.org/article3733.html
Is this an example of the Quran being explicit on alcohol because it looks like the Quran approves of alcohol in this verse I have herad many ex muslims say the Quran does allow alcohol with this verse - https://quran.com/16/67
Of course if there is a verse that outlaws alcohol in the Quran would that be a contradiction of 16/67, what does this verse say about contradictions in the Quran? https://quran.com/4/82
The Islamic state have been calling for vehicle attacks this latest offender was a muslim refugee from Afghanistan who mentioned Allah, treatment of muslims and whinged about our ASIO security when questioned by police.
Imam Tawhidi on the failed pipe bomber in NY-
The Aussie Imam Tawhidi called this a terrorist attack- https://www.facebook.com/TheImamofPeace/
Before apologists get excited and claim this Imam represents all muslims he has called for Sahih Al Bukhari which is the most reliable Sunni hadith to be banned in Australia, he says Palestine is Jewish land and he had to start a go fund me page for security because of death threats from muslims.
I have written to Imam Tawhidi he wants to reform Islam he has it on written record the entire concept of Jihad needs to be abolished, he has also pointed out all those who want to reform Islam have achieved zero in their efforts to reform it.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 04:40:04 AM
Interesting. Where do you get them from? Mainstream media?
Here is one not mainstream.
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg?)
The Australian event does not seem to be one of those.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 11:50:16 PM
You yourself say all the time Islam is politics, so which is it; is it political (secular), or is it religious (spiritual)?
No one here is saying Islam doesn't have a role, but what people are saying is that just because something is done in the name of Islam does not mean that it is therefor 100% Islam's fault and we have to ignore any and every other possible influence, particularly when the perpetrator themselves give the reason they did the act and it isn't Islam.
It is, again, like saying the West Borough Baptists who are horrible human beings in the name of Christianity are only horrible human beings because Christianity is horrible, or more like-for-like that Buddhists who are, arguably, killing Muslims in the name of Buddhism therefor are making a statement about Buddhism. The reality is infinitely more nuanced than that, and by ignoring that nuance you are making sure no actual progress can be made. Or in even worse situations, you actively are involved in promoting regressive ideological thought that makes the situation even worse.
Islam can be a cause, if not even the primary cause.
Even I said that, so who are you arguing against? Nothing you said is actually arguing against what anyone here believes, only arguing against what you think people believe. And that is why no one takes you seriously anymore.
I can only guess, but my guess is because you don't actually have any substance behind your fear. You can only repeat the same thing over and over, even when people agree with you, because you don't actually have any depth behind what you are saying.
What are your solutions? What is your answer to the problem? Do you have any, or are you sitting in the corner screeching hysterically? We get it, the Muslims are scary... now back it up, and propose solutions.
I DO think that Islam motivates adherents to think in violent ways of revenge more than most religions. It is the newest among the modern major religions and it takes some time and secular success for them to calm down. Medieval Christianity was pretty brutal too. And I don't ignore modern rampages between Hindus and Moslems.
Religious beliefs do tend to create great passions, some absurdly violent.
But Moslem violence is also caused by secular poverty as well. Quite frankly, if one lives in crushing poverty and little freedom, tensions explode.
Quite frankly, if you live in a desert, you generally aren't going to be looking for happiness on Earth...
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 12:38:13 AM
There is no solution because there is no problem, to begin with.
This has been planned many decades ago with the full knowledge of the consequences.
Everything is going according to the plan. Yes, a few people are getting raped, maimed, killed.
Collateral damage.
All in a good cause, for the ultimate utopia that will happen. Soon. Insallah.
Globalisation. You will love it.
The ultimate plan of the European monarchs, in their struggle with the Proletariat, is to replace them all with Chinese peasants ... but first with NA/ME proletariat. Think of the current Muslim migration as a trial run, because ultimately the plan is Chinese autocracy.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 04:13:43 AM
Australia says it was a a mental illness problem, possibly drug-induced, not a terrorist attack. Even immigrants have mental problems. Can't imagine why they would. ;(
Some drugs are volunteered, others are MK Ultra.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 05:13:18 AM
I DO think that Islam motivates adherents to think in violent ways of revenge more than most religions. It is the newest among the modern major religions and it takes some time and secular success for them to calm down. Medieval Christianity was pretty brutal too. And I don't ignore modern rampages between Hindus and Moslems.
Religious beliefs do tend to create great passions, some absurdly violent.
But Moslem violence is also caused by secular poverty as well. Quite frankly, if one lives in crushing poverty and little freedom, tensions explode.
Quite frankly, if you live in a desert, you generally aren't going to be looking for happiness on Earth...
Yes, not either/or ... but all of the above. When a Muslim goes nuts, he does it in an Islamic cultural way. Just like when a US Southern gentleman goes nuts, he does it the KKK way. Is the flavor at fault? Islam/KKK? And the governments are corrupt, absolute power does that.
Let’s see how many “mental issues†will there be in the next few days.
Christmas and New Year is a good opportunity to show the kuffar how peaceful they are.
Quote from: pr126 on December 23, 2017, 07:28:54 AM
Let’s see how many “mental issues†will there be in the next few days.
Christmas and New Year is a good opportunity to show the kuffar how peaceful they are.
When the media go with the mental illness bullshit does that put pressure on the legal process to find him not guilty due to mental illness?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207851/Mother-accused-Melbourne-rampage-driver-lashes-out.html
Quote from: baronvonrort on December 23, 2017, 07:37:06 AM
When the media go with the mental illness bullshit does that put pressure on the legal process to find him not guilty due to mental illness?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207851/Mother-accused-Melbourne-rampage-driver-lashes-out.html
What part of the Australian government saying "this was not a terrorist attack" are you not understanding? Because you just WANT it to be one?
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 07:50:05 AM
What part of the Australian government saying "this was not a terrorist attack" are you not understanding? Because you just WANT it to be one?
Firstly governments speak fluent bullshit secondly they say they don't know if this is a terror attack. Governments are also a bit stupid and they have installed bollards to stop vehicles with these type of attacks.
The Islamic state have been calling for muslims to drive vehicles into people and we have seen several of these type of attacks from muslims.
Quoteassistant Commissioner Stephen Leane said investigators had asked advice from the Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions on the charges.
'I've got a firm belief that what he [allegedly] did on Thursday night was a deliberate act,' he told reporters on earlier Saturday.
'The motivations for that act, we'll work through.'
He made 'utterances' to police about voices, dreams and the 'poor treatment of Muslims' to officers in hospital on Thursday night, and later made comments about Australia's top security body and Allah.
Acting Chief Commissioner Shane Patton said Saeed Noori made comments while at St Vincent's under police guard, only hours after the horrific rampage on Thursday afternoon.
'I don't know the exact detail, to do with Allah and some ramblings about ASIO (the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation),' Mr Patton said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207851/Mother-accused-Melbourne-rampage-driver-lashes-out.html#ixzz525Y5SiaE
Quote from: baronvonrort on December 23, 2017, 07:58:36 AM
Firstly governments speak fluent bullshit secondly they say they don't know if this is a terror attack. Governments are also a bit stupid and they have installed bollards to stop vehicles with these type of attacks.
The Islamic state have been calling for muslims to drive vehicles into people and we have seen several of these type of attacks from muslims.
If they change their evaluation, I will too. But on an official pronouncement.
Quote from: baronvonrort on December 23, 2017, 07:37:06 AM
When the media go with the mental illness bullshit does that put pressure on the legal process to find him not guilty due to mental illness?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207851/Mother-accused-Melbourne-rampage-driver-lashes-out.html
In some jurisdictions. This had more meaning when there were public sanataria to keep people locked up who were insane. Now that they are out-patients, usually self medicated, per "crazy-liberation-front" ... not so much. Makes trials pretty useless.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 08:02:46 AM
If they change their evaluation, I will too. But on an official pronouncement.
I support government, but I don't believe it's bullshit.
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 11:15:51 AM
I support government, but I don't believe it's bullshit.
Not all sanataria inmates belong there, and some who belong there hold pubic office. Not a typo...
Quote from: pr126 on December 22, 2017, 10:15:49 AM
It is just part of daily life for the unbeliever.
Get used to it. There will be more to come - anytime, anywhere.
Mayor of London chimes in (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html)
Of course, we do have an answer to all this. Flowers, candles, teddy bears, and the usual slogan:
#NOTALLMUSLIMS.
Then forget about it until the next time. Unless a relative is maimed or dead.
Yeah, like Vegas.
QuoteIf drugs are haram you would think the Ayatollah Khomenei would avoid them because he would know what is written in the Quran, can you cite the verse from the Quran that says drugs are haram?
“They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. "
"O you who believe, intoxicants, gambling, altars and arrows of chance are afflictions which are the work of the devil; you shall stay away from him, that you may succeed"
Allah is saying that alcohol is a great sin; if you are a devout follower of Allah, are you going to do something that he himself proclaims to be a great sin?
And yes, the Qu'ran contradicts itself. Welcome to what I have been saying for several years now.
There are no contradictions in the Quran. No Muslim will agree that there are contradictions or mistakes in the Quran. It is the word of Allah verbatim and Allah does not make mistakes.
Abrogation (http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam) (Quran 2:106) means that if there are contradictions, they both are true, but the later revelations take precedence over the (chronologically) older ones.
There are really 2 books in the Quran, the older Mekkan and the later warring Medinan verses, which supersede (abrogate) the more conciliatory Mekkan verses where Muhammad was still recruiting his army.
Muslims are quoting the abrogated verses to the kuffar to fool them into believing that Islam is peace.
Favorites are Quran 2:256 (there is no compulsion in religion), Quran 5:32 (always quoted incompletely to omit important context), and not quoting the following important verse (Quran 5:33). See here (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/06/obama_quotes_verse_532_omits_5.html)
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 08:02:46 AM
If they change their evaluation, I will too. But on an official pronouncement.
tbh my fuzzy friend, you shouldn't take everything government says as canon, they really only have their own interests in mind.
Quote from: Munch on December 24, 2017, 06:20:05 AM
tbh my fuzzy friend, you shouldn't take everything government says as canon, they really only have their own interests in mind.
This is a guy who filed his toilet paper in triplicate, for decades ;-)
Quote from: Shiranu on December 24, 2017, 01:37:07 AM
“They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. "
"O you who believe, intoxicants, gambling, altars and arrows of chance are afflictions which are the work of the devil; you shall stay away from him, that you may succeed"
Allah is saying that alcohol is a great sin; if you are a devout follower of Allah, are you going to do something that he himself proclaims to be a great sin?
And yes, the Qu'ran contradicts itself. Welcome to what I have been saying for several years now.
All religious texts contradict themselves. That's how they manage to mean all things to many people. That doesn't make them true are even rational. In fact, never rational (to the degree that rational means consistent (and it should).
Prohibitions are an entirely different thing though, and should probably be discussed separately.