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Arts and Entertainment => Film, Music, Sports, and more => Topic started by: SGOS on December 19, 2017, 10:37:04 AM

Title: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 19, 2017, 10:37:04 AM
Season 1 is now out on DVD, and scheduled to arrive at my house on Friday.  I haven't seen it because I don't have TV and don't stream, but based on the positive reception and forum discussions from last year, and also because the old movie is wonderful, I'm expecting it to be worth buying.  The thing is, I haven't heard anyone talking about season two, and I haven't followed the TV series thread that closely.  I'm just wondering if people here still think it's as good as it was the first season.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on December 19, 2017, 01:16:57 PM
I still haven't watched any episodes of season 2, but going off the end of season 1, it's gonna be quite a different setting than in season 1, very different.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 19, 2017, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on December 19, 2017, 01:16:57 PM
I still haven't watched any episodes of season 2, but going off the end of season 1, it's gonna be quite a different setting than in season 1, very different.
Hmm, that could be good or bad.  But then I haven't seen season 1 yet.  The movie was unique, almost like a genre in itself when you include Jurassic Park, fantasy theme parks that go haywire.  I find such a concept intriguing.  I'm looking forward to Westworld, and the DVD release is a surprise.  I had heard rumors last year that the series would not be released to DVD in the foreseeable future.  I wonder if that was started just to get more people to sign up for streaming?
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 19, 2017, 05:27:39 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 19, 2017, 10:37:04 AMSeason 1 is now out on DVD, and scheduled to arrive at my house on Friday.  I haven't seen it because I don't have TV and don't stream, but based on the positive reception and forum discussions from last year, and also because the old movie is wonderful, I'm expecting it to be worth buying.
Yes, it's worth buying.  It was an amazing ride.  I pulled my roommate over and practically clockwork oranged him into watching.

QuoteThe thing is, I haven't heard anyone talking about season two, and I haven't followed the TV series thread that closely.
Aside from a short trailer, we know next to nothing about season two.  It isn't due to air until summer 2018.

QuoteI'm just wondering if people here still think it's as good as it was the first season.
Virtually any discussion of season 2 would spoil season 1.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 10:42:50 AM
Daring the risk of social shunning, I have never even heard of this show.  On the other hand, I never watched 'Dallas' or 'Baywatch' or (insert 'must see" shows).  And I do have a HDTV...
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 11:36:20 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 10:42:50 AM
Daring the risk of social shunning, I have never even heard of this show.  On the other hand, I never watched 'Dallas' or 'Baywatch' or (insert 'must see" shows).  And I do have a HDTV...

New Media are pay-per-view.  I won't pay.  From the website ...

"Set at the intersection of the near future and the reimagined past, explore a world in which every human appetite, no matter how noble or depraved, can be indulged without consequence."

Sounds just like Republicans to me ;-(
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2017, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 10:42:50 AM
Daring the risk of social shunning, I have never even heard of this show.
That's understandable.  Not all HBO shows get nearly as much press as Game of Thrones.  Plus it only aired for 2 months with about a 2 year wait between seasons.  So there's a brief but frenetic flurry of fan activity and then long stretches of inactivity.  Very easy to miss.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2017, 12:27:59 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 11:36:20 AMFrom the website ...

"Set at the intersection of the near future and the reimagined past, explore a world in which every human appetite, no matter how noble or depraved, can be indulged without consequence."
That's the intent of the company that owns the titular amusement park, but that's not completely accurate.  There's a much deeper story going on underneath the corporate-approved mindless violence and debauchery.

Plus, the same guy who wrote Jurassic Park also wrote Westworld.  'Nuff said.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 11:36:20 AM
New Media are pay-per-view.  I won't pay.  From the website ...

"Set at the intersection of the near future and the reimagined past, explore a world in which every human appetite, no matter how noble or depraved, can be indulged without consequence."

Sounds just like Republicans to me ;-(

(koff, koff) yes...
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
(koff, koff) yes...

The part I hate about the original story, is that all the IT people die.  Bad form, that.  Yul Brynner was awesome however.  Marshal Dillon wouldn't have survived him.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 23, 2017, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
The part I hate about the original story, is that all the IT people die.  Bad form, that.  Yul Brynner was awesome however.  Marshal Dillon wouldn't have survived him.
I've watched one episode now.  I'm going to like this.  I can tell.  Plenty of stuff to guess about and lots of ways for it all to shake out.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 23, 2017, 02:24:05 PM
I've watched one episode now.  I'm going to like this.  I can tell.  Plenty of stuff to guess about and lots of ways for it all to shake out.

Will it have good arcs like Babylon 5?
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 23, 2017, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Will it have good arcs like Babylon 5?
I didn't follow Babylon 5, maybe an episode or two.  I'm not sure what you mean by "arcs."  If you mean story lines, philosophical questions, and commentary on the human condition, the potential is certainly there, but with just one episode, I can't say how much it will develop those things.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 23, 2017, 02:52:50 PM
I didn't follow Babylon 5, maybe an episode or two.  I'm not sure what you mean by "arcs."  If you mean story lines, philosophical questions, and commentary on the human condition, the potential is certainly there, but with just one episode, I can't say how much it will develop those things.

Arcs are multi-episode plots.  Babylon 5 was noted for that.  As opposed to some shows where the characters basically started from scratch each time, like Star Trek or any sitcom.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2017, 05:09:26 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Will it have good arcs like Babylon 5?
Depends on what you mean.  But 4 characters go through major character arcs in the first season.  Not bad for 10 episodes.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Arcs are multi-episode plots.  Babylon 5 was noted for that.  As opposed to some shows where the characters basically started from scratch each time, like Star Trek or any sitcom.
Westworld is defintely a serial tv show.  Every episode flows from the previous episode.  You can't miss an episode and still understand what's going on.  Hell, you have to rewatch episodes to fully understand what's going on.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 06:13:39 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 23, 2017, 05:09:26 PM
Depends on what you mean.  But 4 characters go through major character arcs in the first season.  Not bad for 10 episodes.

Character arcs sound good but probably not quite the same as a I mean.  Arcs are more situations that develop over months at least, where hints of developments show slightly at first and them episodes later you realize that THAT'S why he did that (or some such thing).

I suppose that is cheaply common in soap operas, but not often seen in sci-fi.  Dr Who does that sometimes.  ST:TNG did it badly with Wessley and better with Data.

But in Babylon 5, it wasn't character arcs but universe arcs.  I read something by one of the writers saying that they had planned out a whole ending before the wrote the begginning, and everything led to the end in slow arcs skipping entire episodes sometimes to get to one point months in the future.

Naturally, it isn't in repeats...  Too complicated.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 26, 2017, 08:22:06 AM
Character arcs.  Foreshadows and twists?  There are two so far after 7 episodes.  One I anticipated just a few minutes before the revelation.  Others seem to be under development as I'm not so sure about Character X or Y as I was at the beginning.  I'm experiencing a bit of what I used to in time travel stories, potential problems that arise in artificial intelligent beings as happens when considering traveling in time.  The first three episodes were confusing.  I watched each one twice, trying to keep up.  By episode four, I'm starting to feel like I've found my bearings, partly because I've come to accept that a couple of the major plot lines cannot be understood at this point.  This is a very good series, on par with Dexter and Breaking Bad, where each episode does not resolve itself, but are part of the overall plot.  It lends itself to binge watching, where you don't have to wait weeks before the next episode.  But soon I'll be done with season 1 and I'll have to wait a whole year for the next binge, and that will drive me crazy.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
Quote from: SGOS on December 26, 2017, 08:22:06 AM
Character arcs.  Foreshadows and twists?  There are two so far after 7 episodes.  One I anticipated just a few minutes before the revelation.  Others seem to be under development as I'm not so sure about Character X or Y as I was at the beginning.  I'm experiencing a bit of what I used to in time travel stories, potential problems that arise in artificial intelligent beings as happens when considering traveling in time.  The first three episodes were confusing.  I watched each one twice, trying to keep up.  By episode four, I'm starting to feel like I've found my bearings, partly because I've come to accept that a couple of the major plot lines cannot be understood at this point.  This is a very good series, on par with Dexter and Breaking Bad, where each episode does not resolve itself, but are part of the overall plot.  It lends itself to binge watching, where you don't have to wait weeks before the next episode.  But soon I'll be done with season 1 and I'll have to wait a whole year for the next binge, and that will drive me crazy.

Perhaps I've underestimated newer series...
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 28, 2017, 02:55:48 PM
Holy Smoke!  What a first season.  I just finished the final episode, and I'm trying to put my mind back together.  I've read two books by Michael Crichton, I think, and this doesn't seem like the same writer.  In the past, Crichton wrote in a  linier format.  Maybe this was too, but I'm not sure, and I'm not just talking about the obvious flashbacks.  Eventually, I didn't know if I was watching flashbacks or the present time.

There is a philosophical concept that time is not linier, but that the past, present, and future are all happening at the same time.  I put no stock in that, but Westworld kind of captures the spirit of that particular brain fart.  Perhaps after a second watching, I'll sort through that and decide if this was linier or not.  Or maybe not.  Much as been resolved in the final episode, but I still have a ton of questions about what just happened.

Last year, I read some user reviews.  Maybe from Amazon.  I can't remember.  Many people bemoaned the egregious use of nudity.  For some, that's all they noticed.  Not even a comment about the plot, the twists, and the complexity.  Just comments along the lines of, "If bare breasts are all you want, you may find this series interesting."  Sheesh!  Talk about living in different worlds.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on December 28, 2017, 09:39:36 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 28, 2017, 02:55:48 PMHoly Smoke!  What a first season.  I just finished the final episode, and I'm trying to put my mind back together.
Yeah, that last 5 minutes or so was quite a doozy. 

QuoteThere is a philosophical concept that time is not linear, but that the past, present, and future are all happening at the same time.
Block time - not so much that everything's happening at once, but that future has already happened in exactly the same sense that the past has already happened.  The big picture is that spacetime is an unchanging 4-dimensional block.  That picture doesn't gel with people's subjective experience, but very little of reality meets that standard.  If I held a boulder in my hands and told you that it's mostly empty space, you'd likely consider me mad.

QuoteMany people bemoaned the egregious use of nudity.
Considering all the nasty stuff that goes down in Westworld, it's odd that nudity is a big complaint.  It's so strange that you can show violence galore without consequence but an f-bomb or bare breast sends the moral guardians into conniptions.

QuoteJust comments along the lines of, "If bare breasts are all you want, you may find this series interesting."  Sheesh!  Talk about living in different worlds.
Softcore porn would be way more efficient for that.  Besides, the context of a lot of Westworld's nudity (body heaps with sad music playing) isn't exactly an enticing scenario.  At least, I'd hope not.

But yeah, Westworld has a lot more to offer than mere titillation (in fact, that's the show's metanarrative).  Imo, anyone who would sum it up as guns and tits isn't be smart enough to be hired as a security guard at the titular park.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Puritans ... sex bad, violence good.  That is what Salem was all about.  Americans are all from Salem.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on December 29, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 28, 2017, 09:39:36 PM
Considering all the nasty stuff that goes down in Westworld, it's odd that nudity is a big complaint.  It's so strange that you can show violence galore without consequence but an f-bomb or bare breast sends the moral guardians into conniptions.
The nudity is more on the order of undressed store manikins.  When sex is about to take place, it's almost always clothed foreplay, and then the camera cuts away.


Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 24, 2018, 10:08:00 PM
Season 2!

[spoiler]I've been wondering about the outside world (Ford states that humanity has peaked as a species, the MiB says that the world outside is "one of plenty", the lab techs imply that human genetic engineering is commonplace, and the tablets that staff use are shiny and certainly seem high-tech)

So the outside world should be all futuristic and amazing, right?

(http://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/westworld-season-2-trailer-beach-hologram.png?w=1072)

Well...not so much.  At least, judging from the corporate goons and Chinese military officer that we see make landfall.  The only people we've seen who are outsiders to the park...and they don't look all that futuristic.  In fact, they look downright modern.  With the exception of the shiny tablets and the holographic maps, nothing seems all that different from present.

Is the outside world truly a land of plenty?  Or is it just like our world, just with slightly fancier tablets?  A world where computing, robotics, and communications has advanced, but nothing else?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on April 25, 2018, 02:14:22 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 24, 2018, 10:08:00 PM
Season 2!

[spoiler]I've been wondering about the outside world (Ford states that humanity has peaked as a species, the MiB says world outside is "one of plenty", the lab techs imply that human genetic engineering is commonplace, and the tablets that staff use are shiny and certainly seem high-tech)

So the outside world should be all futuristic and amazing, right?



Well...not so much.  At least, judging from the corporate goons and Chinese military officer that we see make landfall.  The only people we've seen who are outsiders to the park...and they don't look all that futuristic.  In fact, they look downright modern.  With the exception of the shiny tablets and the holographic maps, nothing seems all that different from present.

Is the outside world truly a land of plenty?  Or is it just like our world, just with slightly fancier tablets?  A world where computing, robotics, and communications has advanced, but nothing else?[/spoiler]
I remember them talking about the outside world in the first year, and I did wonder what it was like.  To some of the robots who became aware, it struck me as a grass is greener better place, at least for some.  For others, it was more fearful, even though they were beginning to understand the nightmare of their own world.  For me as a viewer, I assumed the outside world was significantly advanced from ours, a place advanced enough to create Westworld, but suffering from the same political corruption and personal greed of our own world.

I didn't think much more about it than that. There might be bizarre aspects to the real world that would be an interesting twist.  And for the aware robots there could be some interesting interplay between the two worlds.  There already is of course, but the interplay all takes place in their own environment so far.

The visitors mostly have a strange quality to me, and seem unusually preoccupied with sex and violence, like when they laugh about how they kill a robot, they strike me as sick and evil types.  Maybe that's just the nature of the guests who bother visiting the park. Except for that one hero type guy whose trip has something to do with his boss who is picking up the tab for a reason that I don't yet understand.  So I wonder if the guests are representative of the outside or just some subgroup.

I'll have to wait until September for the disks, however.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Baruch on April 25, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
First Person Shooter ... it is sick, in some people's eyes.  This is just advanced FPS and GTA.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on April 25, 2018, 09:50:23 AM
Quote from: Baruch on April 25, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
First Person Shooter ... it is sick, in some people's eyes.  This is just advanced FPS and GTA.
The guests can certainly be compared to video game players, but not typical of any that I know.  As a whole, they seem far more obsessed with Westworld than the average Grand Theft Auto fan is with their game, and I find the robots, even the bad asses and the snake woman, more likeable than the guests in general.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 25, 2018, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: SGOS on April 25, 2018, 02:14:22 AMThe visitors mostly have a strange quality to me, and seem unusually preoccupied with sex and violence, like when they laugh about how they kill a robot, they strike me as sick and evil types.  Maybe that's just the nature of the guests who bother visiting the park. Except for that one hero type guy whose trip has something to do with his boss who is picking up the tab for a reason that I don't yet understand.  So I wonder if the guests are representative of the outside or just some subgroup.
A subgroup of thrill-seekers (rich assholes, as at least one character has described them).

Most of that might be Delos's fault.  They market Westworld as a place where you can "live without limits" and despite the family-friendly vibe of the commercial, most people quickly figure out what limits they're referring to.

And when visitors arrive, they're bombarded with quests to go kill some bandits and working girls calling to them.  Even if they refuse and stay in Sweetwater, eventually the bandits come to them.  It seems that Delos is almost entirely to blame for that place becoming a den of sex and violence.  Delos's new narratives become increasingly depraved (thanks, Sizemore) so naturally, the clientelle matches.

A few guests take a more PG route, but they're clearly the minority.  Given that Dolores' family-friendly painting session is a rare break between serving as a damsel in distress to be fought over, the park's PG offerings are more of an afterthought than the main intent.

So yes, the park guests are more likely to be sadistic sex fiends than the average person.  In fact, I expect non-guests and non-Delos people in particular to be far more conscientious and agreeable (like Felix), and less competitive and warlike (like the MiB)

Out of the big five personality traits, I suspect that park guests score through the roof in terms of Openness to new experience, Extraversion, and Neuroticism (quick to anger, psychologically unstable), while scoring low in Conscientiousness (more easy-going/careless than efficient/organized) and Agreeableness (more detached/competitive than friendly/compassionate).
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 25, 2018, 12:40:24 PM
[spoiler]Also, I'd like to point out that Charotte Hale and the MiB (and to a lesser degree, Sizemore) are almost certainly sociopaths.

All kinds of scary stuff goes down in s1e10 and s2e1 and they're carrying on like it's just another day at the office.  We're talking some seriously gruesome and unnerving stuff, and they're not shaken at all.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 25, 2018, 12:58:35 PM
And while I'm on the subject, shortly after watching season 1 with my roommate, the milk in our fridge went bad.  I poured it out in the sink very dramatically while saying the famous "GROWIN' BOY" line.  I expected at least a chuckle in response.

No reaction.

/le sigh
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 02:15:10 AM
s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on April 30, 2018, 02:21:31 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 02:15:10 AM
s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.
Well that's fairly enigmatic.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 03:11:39 AM
Quote from: SGOS on April 30, 2018, 02:21:31 AM
Well that's fairly enigmatic.
It makes sense given my earlier posts.

Spoiler-proof since you'd have to have both seen the episode and seen my earlier posts to understand my reaction.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on June 18, 2018, 09:11:11 AM

Just saw s2e9, the episode before the finale next Sunday.[spoiler]
Sure you want to see spoilers? Mostly just bullet points, but big reveals.
[spoiler]
Dolores is the Deathbringer. Ford is alive as a host, inside Bernard or some shit. The Valley Beyond is the host facility for all the readouts of the guests (read: copies of their minds). William kills his own daughter, thinking it's some game by Ford, mistakingly. While Teddy kills himself after being altered "into a monster" by Dolores.


The preview to the finale shows that they go into the Valley Beyond facility and that there's a showdown between Dolores and William and some other exciting stuff.


oh and spoilception.
[/spoiler][/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on June 22, 2018, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 02:15:10 AM
s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.
I'm going to go ahead and explain this since it's such a fascinating and oft-overlooked part of the show.

For a while (since the start of the show), I've been curious (obsessed) about what life is like outside the titular park.  Lots of people have theories about what's really going on IN Westworld.  I have theories about what's going on OUTSIDE of Westworld.

[spoiler]In season 2 episode 2, we get our first real look of the outside world and man, is it disappointing.  The real world appears to be only slightly more futuristic - wealthier, cleaner, more well-behaved, with shiny tablets, but it's not super futuristic.  There's no flying cars or teleporters or starships (I think).

The world scene is pretty much just like the world we know - the mix of national and corporate power, same basic technology (just slightly better in terms of computing power and of course robots), same skyline, even the same clothes.  There's still a mix of rich and poor - the rich luxuriate by LARPing all day to the tune of $40,000 USD a day and the poor fix robots during their 12-hour shifts and relax with some VR.

As far as we know, VR and robotics are the two main technological breakthroughs that separate the world of Westworld from our world.  And the show focuses on the less prominent technology!

We know from Logan that during the beginning of Westworld, VR was a huge up-and-coming technology - it was for them a lot like smartphones were for us a decade ago.  Cut to 35 years later and the lab techs relax with some VR during their lunch breaks.  This technology has clearly gone mainstream.  Robotics, on the other hand, has not.

Just imagine the vast and immerse worlds created by VR programmers!  Who could possibly prefer Westworld to that!  Arnold, for one.  The proliferation of realistic-seeming but unrealistic worlds likely pushed Arnold to make Westworld in the first place.  Arnold wasn't satisfied with the illusion of consciousness - he wanted consciousness itself.  Presumably, he was deeply dissatisfied with VR AIs.

And we know in later episodes of Westworld that Westworld's main secret is its powerful virtual environments.  The heart of Westworld is VR.  VR perfected!  And with it, the power to change the world!

TL;DR:  robotics is so last century, VR is the future![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on June 22, 2018, 11:43:23 AM
Westworld S2E8 Kiksuya:

My second-favorite episode of Westworld after the season 1 finale.  It was that good.

[spoiler]Ghost Nation has always been a mysterious part of Westworld.  And we seemingly finally get answers about their true intentions.

However, the shocking twist is that the narrator is not reliable, so almost every part of Akecheta's moving story is dubious at best.

I've read a ton of reviews about this episode, and apparently, a lot of people didn't pick up on this.  I don't know how they missed it - but the fact that Akecheta and Maeve say the same thing at the same time and knowing what Charlotte said about Maeve's powers clearly indicates that Akecheta is saying what Maeve is directing him to say and doing what Maeve is directing him to do.

As the audience, we have no idea when he stopped talking and when she started talking.  For all we know, the entire monologue could have been Maeve's work.  Or most of it.  Or just the final line.  We just don't know.

Based on season 1 Ghost Nation's behavior (trying to scalp Maeve) and their interactions with Stubbs and the hosts (killing the hosts while sparing the humans), Akecheta's tale is only partially true, if any of it is truthful at all.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on June 25, 2018, 10:18:39 AM
Season 2 le grand finale
[spoiler]
The beginning of season 2 corpses around the lake of the Valley Beyond is finally explained. It was the result of the Hosts entering the Valley Beyond, leaving their physical bodies behind, or so it seems. There's a brief moment where the humans following the mischief band with Maeve where they ask where the Door to the Valley Beyond is, because only the Hosts can see it.

William fails in stopping Dolores entering the Valley Beyond facility, getting some fingers shot off because she rigged his gun with a spent bullet (how does that work, hmmm?). Anyways, there seems to be 2 time lines here still, the one with Dolores and the one with William, still.

The season finale seems to lay the ground work for a possible 3rd season, but this time in the real real world with Hosts walking among humans - at least, that what I think is implied in the ending of the season finale and how inside the Valley Beyond facility played out, particularly with Dolores' new body as Hale.

Post credits spoilers
[spoiler]
William goes to the Valley Beyond facility, only to find that it has been deserted a long time ago.It seems William was in a simulation all along, imagine that. A sort of poetic justice seeing as his predecessor, James Delos, was confined to a small quarters for his entire post-life existence and tested 149 times by William.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on June 29, 2018, 12:53:17 PM
I liked the finale.  ...mostly.  It was certainly cool-looking, but there are some real head-scratchers here.  And not in a good way.  But overall, I'm happy with the resolution of the plot.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGPcUq4Hts

Fun fact: I actually did order barbacoa instead of carnitas a few hours before I watched this video.  That line really weirded me out.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on August 14, 2018, 12:32:08 PM
I've been plowing through Westworld critiques lately and here's one that really caught my attention:

Contains both Westworld and Game of Thrones spoilers:

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjKnMFv8dw

Like many other awesome shows, Westworld creates a bunch of factions who are out to annihilate the other factions.  Maeve VS the Man in Black.  Dolores VS Charlotte.  Charlotte VS Bernard.  Bernard VS Dolores.

That's great.  But the problem is that once you get any of them in a room together, they'll kill each other and all that juicy drama comes to an end.

So what happens when they finally come face to face?  Some third party intervenes and they're separated.  Deus ex machina.  Exhibit A:  Maeve getting shot up by some randos, cutting her confrontation with the MiB short.  Exhibit B:  Dolores getting interrupted from killing Charlotte and Charlotte somehow managing to make a break for it successfully.

Does this add anything to the story?  Nope.  Does it create unsatisfying scenes that mostly just annoy fans?  Yep.  But it's a way for the writers to escape from painting themselves in a corner, so we're stuck with it.

Another thing is that characters often just spin their wheels.  Maeve is the premier example of this.  You could cut 80% of her screentime and not miss out on much, which is a shame because she's one of the most interesting characters in the whole series.  Her companions have potential, too.  It's a shame they're written by a hack who never bothered developing them, but I guess that's what happens when you have to write 300 narratives in 3 weeks.  :P

Basically, this is what happens when you try to write an ensemble work and you don't quite stick the landing.  Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Westworld or anything, quite the opposite in fact, but stuff like this hurts it a little.

In the future (or the past?  It this now?), I hope the remaining 4 factions: Dolores (Magneto), Bernard (Professor X), Maeve (machine Neo), and MiB (team Chaotic Evil), are kept apart from each other for the most part, but their actions ripple outwards - affecting each other.  Like a planetary game of ...well...thrones.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 03, 2020, 03:04:37 PM
So Westworld season 3 is out with more of all those things that we have always enjoyed: surprises and violence.

If you haven't caught up, just go ahead and watch it.  Chances are pretty good that you have enough free time now, lol.

[spoiler]So I've been chomping at the bit to see the world outside of Westworld - and man, does my cup runeth over!  Self-driving cars.  Cyberpunk implants.  Big data keeping tabs on everyone.  Mood shirts (https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Westworld-Season-3-Marshawn-Lynch-G.jpeg) (I want one so bad!  Even if I have to select it manually, that'd still be pretty dope).  And RICO, the world's finest crime-facilitating app (the "make money motherfucker" and "No, I like being basic" catchphrases always amuse the hell out of me).  And the Architect (ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly)

So far, I really like the world.  It's set 20 minutes into the future, so it's still recognizable to us 20th century cavemen, but it looks flashy and high-tech enough to be kind of exciting.  The only odd thing about it is how sterile and practically empty the streets are.  It doesn't look lived-in and messy like the real world actually is.  An indication that this is a simulation?  Or just a production aesthetic?  It probably wouldn't be cheap to have a ton of futuristic cars in a shot, so I'm thinking a lot of this might just be due to budget rather than some big reveal.

+fatal divergence+ DOLORES: The Deathbringer seems remarkably restrained this season.  Good, I hated Season 2 Dolores.  But this season, she's a lot more empathetic.  She's an agent of disorder in a world of unjust order.  I'm on board with the robot uprising so far, though undoubtedly she's going to take things too far and go on a murder bender.  I don't see why she can't just try to appeal to disaffected humans.  I'm positive that millions of people would go full Aeon Illuminate and join her cause 100% willingly as long as they can live in peace and prosperity post-revolution.  Not every human wants to rape and murder robots, you know.  Which brings us to the next character->

+elevated scrutiny+ CALEB: My absolute favorite character this season.  A blue collar man screwed by the system and the ultra rich assholes who run it.  What wacky, far-fetched fiction!

Imo, the writers kinda went overboard by giving him a sick mom.  They didn't need to hammer home that he's a good guy that much.  They could have kept him a little shady - a basically good guy who moonlights as a criminal, but intentionally avoids the more reprehensible jobs.  That would have kept him empathic but not overly virtuous.

+divergence+ NOT-CHARLOTTE: I gotta tell you guys, I'm not a fan of this character.  She's very child-like and insecure, constantly needing reassurance and with some bizarre superstitious thinking and a hell of a mean streak.  She's not like any of the other hosts I've seen yet.

And no, she's not Teddy.  Imho, she's an original creation by Dolores - either a composite of various hosts or a reflection of Dolores herself.

+special circumstances+ SERAC: The Architect behind it all.  And of course, he'd be French.  I've gotta say, he lowkey makes a lot of sense.  Mankind is a horrible species and its fundamentally tribal and aggressive nature leads to loads of completely unnecessary misery and death around the world.  One could argue that Rehoboam's reign is on the whole better than the otherwise lawless and chaotic state of affairs.  For example, we know for a fact that a nuclear bomb was detonated against people in the future.  That's a hell of a no-no.  So some order is definitely a good thing.  But there's also a case that Rehoboam has gone too far and constrained humans too much.  There's also plenty of evidence that Rehoboam's simulations are incomplete and not quite accurate (hence the need for Forge-derived data).  This weakness is likely to lead to catastrophic failure.  Expect everyone's favorite unguarded, publicly accessible (why?) glowing orb to bite the dust in the near future.

+divergence+ MAEVE: Love her.  Now that she's done looking after her daughter, she'll actually have a decent arc this time around as an agent of freedom.  And she's well positioned to mediate some sort of truce between the hosts and the humans.

+low-grade anomaly+ BERNARD: To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why he's still in the show.  I'm not a fan of his Terminator alt-mode, though I suppose that's been there all along.  Hopefully, there will be some purpose to his buddy-cop antics with Ashley.

Theories:

Who is in Charlotte?  A duplicated, Wyatt-lite version of Dolores.  That's pretty much the only option given that it's someone Dolores trusts and can't live without and isn't Teddy and isn't Abernathy.

Is Serac a human or is he a fabrication of Rehoboam? He is 100% a human.  A lot of people jumped to conclusions based on a single non-face-to-face encounter.  (The simple explanation is that he was not there in person and took the call via VR)  He's impatient like a human.  He's judgmental like a human.  He's driven like a human.  Chances are pretty good that he's a human, imo.

Is Stubbs a host?  Noooo sh--i--it, She--rrr---lock.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 03, 2020, 03:19:45 PM
This guy makes a lot of sense:

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ribiDsUH8[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 20, 2020, 09:18:53 AM
s3e6

[spoiler]Well, I'm back to hating Dolores again.  What she did was utterly unforgivable.

This episode truly surprised me a number of times.  Heart-wrenching.

Some people are saying that it's their favorite episode, but personally, I think episode 5 was better.  The scene with the man in white certainly puts this episode up there.  Self-discovery does tend to involve a bit of self-struggle. 

I've gotta say, I find Maeve more and more appealing as this season progresses.  There's a theory that she'll ultimately be the mediator between warring factions, like the ego between the id and superego.  I thought that person might be Bernard, and it still might, but that seems to be less likely.  We'll see.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Mike Cl on April 20, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 20, 2020, 09:18:53 AM
s3e6

[spoiler]Well, I'm back to hating Dolores again.  What she did was utterly unforgivable.

This episode truly surprised me a number of times.  Heart-wrenching.

Some people are saying that it's their favorite episode, but personally, I think episode 5 was better.  The scene with the man in white certainly puts this episode up there.  Self-discovery does tend to involve a bit of self-struggle. 

I've gotta say, I find Maeve more and more appealing as this season progresses.  There's a theory that she'll ultimately be the mediator between warring factions, like the ego between the id and superego.  I thought that person might be Bernard, and it still might, but that seems to be less likely.  We'll see.[/spoiler]
Not a 'theory', but an hypothesis--sorry, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on April 20, 2020, 01:07:03 PM
episode 6. I don't know what I watched. Being drunk didn't help.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on April 20, 2020, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on April 20, 2020, 01:07:03 PM
episode 6. I don't know what I watched. Being drunk didn't help.
From my experience with the first two seasons, it took most of my mental abilities to just to take a stab at keeping up.  I think the premise of the series is wonderful, but it's easy to feel lost half the time.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 20, 2020, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 20, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Not a 'theory', but an hypothesis--sorry, couldn't resist.
Fan theory.  Theory in the colloquial sense!
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on April 20, 2020, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: SGOS on April 20, 2020, 01:20:45 PMFrom my experience with the first two seasons, it took most of my mental abilities to just to take a stab at keeping up.  I think the premise of the series is wonderful, but it's easy to feel lost half the time.
That's intentional.  Imo, season 1 did a beautiful job of foreshadowing major reveals.  A keen-eyed watcher might be able to guess some stuff.

In fact, fans did such a good job guessing for season 1 that the show creators felt the need to up their game and make season 2 impossible to crack.  And they succeed a little too well.  Season 2 was so inaccessible and complicated that it was nearly impossible to predict.  Fans were basically just stabbing in the dark.

Now, with season 3 the creators are going a little easier on us with a much more straightforward narrative.  Not to toot my own horn, but I guessed two out of three major reveals correctly.  The third is still ongoing, so we might not find that out until the season wraps up.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDaHQDD1ghY

LOL.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on May 04, 2020, 09:36:38 AM
Season 3: Crisis Theory (final episode of the season)

[spoiler]There might be a 4th season, since in the post-credits scenes end on a cliffhanger, where William is killed by a host copy of himself. Not to mention that since Rehoboam is deleted rendering mankind free, sortof.

I reckon in the 4th season, it will be in a post-apocalyptic world, of sorts, or, have you, a wild west. *snort*[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Baruch on May 04, 2020, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 04, 2020, 09:36:38 AM
Season 3: Crisis Theory (final episode of the season)

[spoiler]There might be a 4th season, since in the post-credits scenes end on a cliffhanger, where William is killed by a host copy of himself. Not to mention that since Rehoboam is deleted rendering mankind free, sortof.

I reckon in the 4th season, it will be in a post-apocalyptic world, of sorts, or, have you, a wild west. *snort*[/spoiler]

I liked the joke, and I like your Feynman quote.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 04, 2020, 02:39:15 PM
[spoiler]And I was right on all three accounts.  A lot of people thought that Serac wasn't a real person (due to seeing him as a hologram once, kinda flawed reasoning imo).  It's true that he was a puppet, though it wasn't true that he didn't exist.

And speaking of predictions, my initial impression of Maeve:  "Now that she's done looking after her daughter, she'll actually have a decent arc this time around as an agent of freedom.  And she's well positioned to mediate some sort of truce between the hosts and the humans."  A bit on the nose, don't you think?

This season ended about where I thought it would, though I'm not sure if I even like this ending.  What is the point of it?  Some gunplay, some swordfights, a couple explosions along the predictable revolution narrative?  Get a couple cheap thrills, some surprises - that's not enough.

This season seemed to lack any significance - since we already know that humanity is long gone in the far future, it's easy to surmise that the robot uprising does not end well for humanity.  The series even pulled its punches and just delayed this bloodbath by having Dolores prime merely take down the system while leaving humans to fend for themselves in a state of total anarchy (very merciful) while Halores builds an army and prepares for war.  So really, this revolution is just a drawn-out bloodbath.

And while I'm grateful that Dolores and Maeve had decent arcs, Serac/Rehoboam was such a disappointing villain duo, the Man In Black had fuck all of an arc (betrayer, betrayed, vengeful, decayed), and Bernard/Stubbs were mere passengers, a day late and dollar short.  Stubbs in particular had a rather perplexing moment where he's bleeding to death in a car while Bernard reminisces with an old friend and then later leaves him to rot in a bathtub for god knows how long.  Such a great friend.

Dolores has swung wildly between blackest villainy and semi-heroic self-sacrifice, so I dunno what to make about her.  I certainly can't say that I like her or her methods.  #teamMaeve

And Serac will ultimately be proven right - without some sort of guiding system to establish law and order, humanity will kill itself.  Because they can't change, or cannot change - because they're only human after all.  More's the pity.

Dangling plot threads:  outliers in stasis, Solomon, Stubbs, Clementine, Hanaryo, Lawrence, sim-Sizemore, etc.  I'm sure I'll recall more in time.  I look forward to a scathing critique from Preston Jacobs.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 04, 2020, 03:03:05 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 04, 2020, 09:36:38 AM[spoiler]I reckon in the 4th season, it will be in a post-apocalyptic world, of sorts, or, have you, a wild west. *snort*[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I predict a machine haven in the American West modeled after Westworld, albeit with much less violent delights.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 04, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
Watching Westworld videos and the reviews fairly often get basic facts wrong and therefore misinterpret scenes.  *Ford chuckles to himself*

[spoiler]One guy even said that humans can't be copied over to robot bodies with any stability because human minds are too complex.  UGGH![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Sal1981 on May 05, 2020, 03:52:55 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 04, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
Watching Westworld videos and the reviews fairly often get basic facts wrong and therefore misinterpret scenes.  *Ford chuckles to himself*

[spoiler]One guy even said that humans can't be copied over to robot bodies with any stability because human minds are too complex.  UGGH![/spoiler]
[spoiler]They probably got that notion from James Delos' imprisonment in season 2, where he repeatedly "breaks down", except it was explained he broke down because he was incompatible with the old code.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 05, 2020, 11:54:55 AM
[spoiler]Maybe.  And that could be forgiven if he had just watched season 2 and missed that big reveal in the season 2 finale.  But this was in a season 3 finale review.  Human memory is quite fallible, it seems.  Little details keep getting lost.

Come to think of it, Westworld only has two hard-and-fast rules:
1) Human minds are unstable in machine bodies
2) Human death is permanent[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 07, 2020, 01:22:06 PM
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP54TU7c3jA

Well, that aged like milk.  Would have been nice to see.  Unfortunate that there wasn't more of a payoff with this character's arc.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on May 07, 2020, 01:51:11 PM
A peak at the writers' room:

[spoiler]Major character arcs throughout the series:

Dolores
1) I want to be free
2) I want to kill 'em all, no wait...
3) I want to lead a revolution to kill 'em all, no wait...

Bernard
1) I want to understand
2) I don't understand
3) I don't get it

William
1) I want the hosts to be free so they can fight back
2) I want to destroy the guest data because my Myersâ€"Briggs sucks
3) I want to save the world by ranting like a crazy person to passerby and waving my gun around oops I'm dead

Maeve
1) I want to escape no wait...I want to go get my daughter
2) I want to protect my daughter by leading her to safety
3) I want to protect my daughter by killing Dolores

Akecheta
1) There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
2) There must be some kind of way outta here, the hour's getting late
3) *epic guitar riffs* [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 09, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 07, 2020, 01:51:11 PM
A peak at the writers' room:

[spoiler]Major character arcs throughout the series:

Dolores
1) I want to be free
2) I want to kill 'em all, no wait...
3) I want to lead a revolution to kill 'em all, no wait...

Bernard
1) I want to understand
2) I don't understand
3) I don't get it

William
1) I want the hosts to be free so they can fight back
2) I want to destroy the guest data because my Myersâ€"Briggs sucks
3) I want to save the world by ranting like a crazy person to passerby and waving my gun around oops I'm dead

Maeve
1) I want to escape no wait...I want to go get my daughter
2) I want to protect my daughter by leading her to safety
3) I want to protect my daughter by killing Dolores

Akecheta
1) There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
2) There must be some kind of way outta here, the hour's getting late
3) *epic guitar riffs* [/spoiler]
Year 3 Episodes 1 to 3
I know that Delores wants to take over the real world, or have her revenge on it, or something like that, but that was kind of established in the second year.  Beyond that, I'm watching images of people talking in conspiratorial tones about things I don't understand, and can't figure out the point of it all.  This was hard enough to follow in the second year but I'm running out of curiosity.  I loved the movie, dated as it now is, but that was a hell of a story.  This seems more like nonobjective performance art designed to appeal to a sense I must not have.  Most of the original cast has not shown up in the latest set of disks, at least not yet.  Did they run for cover to save their careers?  The character I identify with most is:

Bernard
1) I want to understand
2) I don't understand
3) I don't get it

Except that Bernard seems more concerned, although I wished the writers would have given him better things to do.  I think this will be the last season for me.  Although Delores looks mighty fine in a slinky cocktail dress.  Beyond that... I want to understand.  I don't understand, I don't get it.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on September 09, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
Dolores's goals are hard to guess at because they always seem to be in flux.  In one scene, it's petty revenge and horrifically cruel at that (contradicting her merciful behavior).  In another, it's complete genocide.  In another, it's simple freedom.  I believe the writers did this obfuscation to deliberately try to keep her mysterious, but it really just makes her seem erratic and serves to take away from her character.  If the audience doesn't know who she is and what she wants, they can't sympathize with her.

Quote from: SGOS on September 09, 2020, 01:31:48 PMI want to understand.  I don't understand, I don't get it.
*dons Ford's black hat*  Hardly your fault.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 10, 2020, 06:31:20 PM
Episode 5 (I think) of year 3 was entertaining for sure, not that I got any real clarity from it.  OK, there's clarity but only in minor details, but with little direction toward a plot.  From the old West of Delos to upscale society on the order of James Bond casinos is an interesting contrast, and I enjoyed the elegant flesh market that Delores and Jesse Pinkman crashed. I got several unexpected laughs out of that.  The real world is every bit the fantasy of the theme park.  It's watchable if not understandable.  In season 2, I decided to just watch it without understanding, and I can do that again, but like I said, I'm running out of curiosity, although I think the settings, and acting will hold my interest a while longer.  It reminds me of a David Lynch production, although less corny.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 10, 2020, 06:34:08 PM
I'm not sure they are in the real world yet.  Maybe it's just a bigger theme park.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on September 10, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: SGOS on September 10, 2020, 06:34:08 PMI'm not sure they are in the real world yet.  Maybe it's just a bigger theme park.
There's a fairly popular fan theory that this all takes place on the moon or Mars.  Yet there's no evidence to indicate that this doesn't take place on the Earth.

Still, there are certainly some incongruities.

In season 1, MiB says the the real world is one of plenty, where people's basic needs are met and disease has been eradicated.  And while people do have pretty decent living conditions, there is a wide gulf between rich and poor and poor people certainly do not live lives of plenty.  And not only does disease still exist (exhibit A: Caleb's mom), Caleb struggles to pay for treatment.  And there's also a pretty noticeable criminal element, with a disturbingly large amount of "wetwork" (murder)

It's also alluded to that there's some extensive eugenics going on - not just the elimination of genetic defects but also cultivating certain personality traits.  Felix says something to Sylvester to that effect.  This system apparently had one hell of an oversight with the MiB (and a small fraction of people who share his personality).

This isn't enough to call bullshit, and part of that can be explained by an unreliable pov, but the show in general seems to have all the hallmarks of on-the-fly-rewrites that leave these sorts of incongruities whenever the writers decide to take the show in a different direction.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 11, 2020, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 10, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
but the show in general seems to have all the hallmarks of on-the-fly-rewrites that leave these sorts of incongruities whenever the writers decide to take the show in a different direction.
I keep thinking there is some overall goal that the plot works toward, but I suppose it's not necessary to follow that form.  Mini plots are used quite often in serial comedy, but not usually in serious drama.  There can be subplots of course.  The premise of androids getting loose and functioning outside the park is a good one.

I never watched the series Lost, but a friend told me before the final reveal that the point of the show was for viewers to figure out what was happening.  In the end, I understand it was just someone dreaming, which I think would be a  let down for fans.  But I suppose it depends on how it was done.

I did enjoy Season 3s 5th episode, but it's hard to explain why.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on September 11, 2020, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: SGOS on September 11, 2020, 08:38:25 AMI did enjoy Season 3s 5th episode, but it's hard to explain why.
Because that episode had weight.  There was a huge reveal to the entire world - a major shakeup in the status quo - and it had an enormous personal impact.  So it was a major big picture and small picture event.  Audiences understood both the big picture ramifications and the individual sadness and anger at being used by a system that knows everything about them but doesn't care at all about their wellbeing (remind you of anything?)

The beginning of the episode also revealed a lot about the "villain".  And there's also a decent amount of action, all during a weird drug trip, all culminating in a sobering tragic death.

For most shows, that would have been a season finale.  But for Westworld, that was just a mid-season escalation.  There's a reason I still like this show, even if it does have its faults.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: Hydra009 on September 11, 2020, 01:46:31 PM
Here's the recap for that episode I'm working off of:

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPYDtwal0Jg[/spoiler]

Quite a lot of meat on the bones, in terms of plot.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 11, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
That was a good recap.  I'll look for more from that guy.
Title: Re: Westworld TV Series
Post by: SGOS on September 13, 2020, 08:36:31 AM
Episode 5 makes way more sense with the spoilers from that recap, and was definitely enjoyable.  It's sort of like "cheating" to use spoilers, but I don't mind cheating in this case.