I used to be impressed, but I've gotten enough shipments from them to say with a fairly high degree of confidence that it's gone downhill, like a lot downhill. I believe it's part of their new business strategy to nickel dime customers. First, two day delivery, which used to be more or less expected back when they were good at it, is still available, but is now priced so high that it should be classified as "dire emergency" delivery. Second, free delivery is often available, especially if you make a substantial purchase, but it takes a very long time, at least compared to their service in the past.
I placed two orders two days ago, one from LL Bean, which came today as a free delivery, and placed an order from Amazon listed as "in stock", and (not one of their secondary sellers), which hasn't even been processed or shipped yet. I'm betting it's being throttled at the warehouse in order to blackmail customers into opting for Amazon Prime where two day free delivery is offered, but not all the time depending on items. I can't justify prime, because I don't buy that much stuff, and I tried it one year because of the streaming service, which didn't have enough quality. It's more like a way to get you to view their pay per view streaming, where most of the good stuff is.
I understand big corporations need to increase their profit each year to make shareholders stay with them, but in the past, increased revenue seemed to be generated through better services and better selections. Eventually, they can find nothing to make the service better, so they decide to charge customers for the services that that were part and parcel of the original transactions.
I find myself buying some things from Best Buy lately, which oddly has decided to compete with Amazon, even though they have to support showrooms. Best Buy doesn't always match Amazon prices, but they often do, and when they do, I make a trip to Best Buy, sometimes even when their prices are a tad higher, but still in the ball park, and I get to take it home that day. Of course, some stuff isn't available at Best Buy, and Amazon is the only choice. I bought a couple big ticket items at Best Buy this last year, which amounted to around $2000 when they matched Amazon, but I doubt that Amazon cares if they lose a thousand here and a thousand there.
Also, when I buy something expensive I will wait a couple of months before making a purchase, especially from Amazon. I do this partly because I tend to deliberate and research. Watch Amazon pricing. They have some kind of strange algorithm to price many items. A $200 item can be $220 one day, and $149 the next. I track the prices long enough to determine what seems to be the bottom and buy it when it comes around again. I bought a Hudson's Bay blanket from Amazon two years ago. The usual price at the time was around $430, but a couple times a year, without fanfare or a sale announcement, the price would dip to $287. I guess they know what they are doing, but I don't automatically expect a good deal from Amazon, unless I've been tracking the item.
Amazon is still a good place to buy things, but not all the time, and they are cutting back on the service and quality that made them what they were. They are still expanding, and good for them, but they aren't what they used to be.
I do enough business with Amazon to make the Prime worth the shipping. Haven't had any problems with them.
I tend to avoid amazon best I can, and go to ebay first to find anything. I know the horrible shit the workers in the amazon warehouses go through and feel guilty just ordering anything from them what the poor workers go though.
Quote from: Munch on December 16, 2017, 04:12:02 PM
I tend to avoid amazon best I can, and go to ebay first to find anything. I know the horrible shit the workers in the amazon warehouses go through and feel guilty just ordering anything from them what the poor workers go though.
So you want them to lose their jobs?
Quote from: Munch on December 16, 2017, 04:12:02 PM
I tend to avoid amazon best I can, and go to ebay first to find anything. I know the horrible shit the workers in the amazon warehouses go through and feel guilty just ordering anything from them what the poor workers go though.
I met a woman in Chicago who works in an Amazon warehouse shipping. She did tell me they laid off a lot of the shipping clerks about a year and a half ago. I had already noticed that their speed of shipping had slowed down, so it kind of explained part of the slide in service.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 16, 2017, 06:03:55 PM
So you want them to lose their jobs?
you don't think they deserve better jobs then that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYUJjpIxkCU
I worked in an early automated book warehouse in the early 90s (inventory was automated by hand scanners, the stocking was by hand). Wasn't too bad then. But I suspect that the Frederick Taylor folks have ruined it. And more and more robots being brought in. Too bad management is impossible to automate ;-)
When a corporation achieves maximum efficiency and market saturation, there are only two ways left to increase profits. You can nickel dime the customers or the employees. Although if you are a bank you can commit fraud until the government pays you for it, and if your big enough you can pay politicians money to create laws that force people to buy your product.
OK, so I guess there are more than two ways to increase profit.
Quote from: Munch on December 16, 2017, 06:42:55 PM
you don't think they deserve better jobs then that?
Save the strawmanning, please. I asked you if you think they should lose their jobs. Boycotting Amazon will do that if enough people buy into the "punishment" idea. The billionaires won't be hurt. The minimum wages Joes will be hurt, they'd need a job.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 17, 2017, 08:49:43 AM
Save the strawmanning, please. I asked you if you think they should lose their jobs. Boycotting Amazon will do that if enough people buy into the "punishment" idea. The billionaires won't be hurt. The minimum wages Joes will be hurt, they'd need a job.
A voluntary general strike is the usual Left response, except not for snowflakes. An involuntary general strike is coming, Marx wasn't completely wrong. And Adam Smith saying that the malefactors of wealth are constantly scheming unless restrained by competition or by regulation ... he was partly right too.
Are you in favor of forced government purchases, directly or thru citizen mandate, to save the buggy whip industry?
Cyclic declines in economic activity and employment are normal, if unpleasant. What government does, thru bribery of elections etc ... is to suppress the natural cycle in favor of certain industries and individuals ... corruption on other words. But how long can the government be successfully used as a tool of the Elite? Usually quite a long time, with brief depressions and revolutions in between. Revolutions replace one king with another, think of it as popular coup de etat. Voting should be popular coup de etat on a regular basis, but the voters won't do their job vis-a-vis incumbents and dinosaur parties.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 16, 2017, 03:50:04 PM
I do enough business with Amazon to make the Prime worth the shipping. Haven't had any problems with them.
If you figure your break even point on what Amazon would have charged you for shipping, you save money with Prime if you buy enough. If you figure your break even point at what others charge you to ship the same goods, you may have to buy more items to break even. Either way, you are now paying more for a part of the service, which I view as a way to get more money from customers. I view prime not as an extra service, but just a new charge for an old service, and made to look more attractive by raising the cost of the old service.
What I have experienced is that when I used to buy Amazon goods, I didn't pay much attention to shipping costs as they were nominal. Now they can seriously affect the price, and sometimes cancel out any advantage from making an Amazon purchase. Also, they use tricky devices to catch you off guard. If they do offer free shipping on a product, their web page doesn't default to it. It will default to a more expensive shipping mode where Amazon can make more money. Why not leave the choice of the shipping selection totally with the buyer, using the red "need more information" alert before the order is completed? Maybe it's paranoia on my part. So be it. I'd prefer to make my own decisions on how much extra I want to pay, rather than have the merchandizer do it for me. It's sneaky, although not unexpected in today's corporate strategies.
I can also say good things about Amazon. This is just an observation that they are no longer fairer and less deceptive than other corporations, whereas in the past, they simply were better. In fact, I find myself no longer checking their prices against Newegg when I'm buying electronics. But I still check them against Best Buy, however. And more and more, I check with Monoprice, a real "up and comer" although they are more specialized and don't offer Amazon's selection. And Amazon does offer more electronic devices than any other supplier I can think of. If I have a special need, even if it's for a gadget that I never heard of, but wished was available, I've sometimes found it at Amazon.
I can assure you that I do more ordering than $99 would cover the shipping for. I'm not needing a lecture in inconsequential economics. We exceed that number in March.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 17, 2017, 10:32:26 AM
I can assure you that I do more ordering than $99 would cover the shipping for. I'm not needing a lecture in inconsequential economics. We exceed that number in March.
I did not mean that to be offensive.
Quote from: SGOS on December 17, 2017, 10:36:45 AM
I did not mean that to be offensive.
Lecturing me on a subject I investigated carefully is tedious.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 17, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Lecturing me on a subject I investigated carefully is tedious.
I didn't mean that to be tedious either. In the end, if you are saving money and happy with your choice, it's a plus. I quoted you as a lead-in to make further points to everyone reading the thread. I did not intend to bore or lecture you personally, although I see how you could assume that would be my motive. I have no misgivings about my post, however. I had no malicious intent toward you or anyone else in the forum. They are simply my personal impressions of Amazon. Some may even be incorrect, and worth debating. But there has been no attack on your character or the way you conduct your personal finances.
In general, when a new company wants your business, they do things to attract it. As they approach great success (or hidden monopoly corruption) then they no longer have "ganas" ... this is what happened to Toyota too.
Quote from: Baruch on December 17, 2017, 12:24:29 PM
In general, when a new company wants your business, they do things to attract it. As they approach great success (or hidden monopoly corruption) then they no longer have "ganas" ... this is what happened to Toyota too.
I think it's likely to happen with any corporation that meets with phenomenal success quickly. Cabela's, as a startup 20 years ago gained popularity through highly competitive pricing, and I started buying outdoor clothing from them. Once established, they raised prices almost overnight and were soon as expensive as LL Bean. Redbox competed with lots of free movie credits, which are much harder to accumulate since it established itself. Once established, Honda quit refining their product and a few years back came out with an offering that was so substandard, not even customer loyalty could keep their base. It was so bad that they came out with a new model mid year, but I don't think they ever reestablished their credibility. I looked at them two years ago, along with Toyota, which once manufactured the best vehicle I ever owned. I ended up buying a Mazda, and bought two more since then.
I won't deny the success of corporations, but I do mourn the loss of their consumer orientation that once got them where they are today. Obviously, they still maintain consumer loyalty. People love Amazon, and there are good reasons for this too. On the other hand, some behemoths like Sears, Montgomery Wards, and Marshall Fields have dropped out of sight for reasons that I can only guess might have something to do with letting things slide, or perhaps, not paying attention, but there are probably other reasons beyond my limited knowledge that account for it. When I first got into PC computers, I bought a Dell, because the gurus were telling me their customer service was outstanding, and it turned out to be true, but I watched that go downhill, and I don't hear anything outstanding about Dell, anymore.
Quote from: Munch on December 16, 2017, 06:42:55 PM
you don't think they deserve better jobs then that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYUJjpIxkCU
Wow. Well, I won't be ordering from Amazon any more.
When I bought my first Dell, the other one that was equally recommended to me at that time was Gateway. Do they even make those anymore?
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 17, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
Wow. Well, I won't be ordering from Amazon any more.
I'm not sure if it's that bad on this side of the Atlantic. That place in Great Britain is the only horror story I've heard so far. Yet it is still Amazon, probably testing how much they can get away with. That woman I met didn't voice any serious complaints, although I hardly knew her. She just seemed to treat it as a crappy job like all the other crappy jobs people find themselves in.
Like I say, I will still use amazon when I can't find it somewhere else, like my local catalogue shop or on eBay (since they have free shipping), but its kind of like buying a product from a supermarket knowing the underhanded practices of it, like the claim the eggs you are buying are free range, when in reality it just means the chickens are less crushed in together then none free range, or just buying anything from nestle, which is a hell of a lot of products.
You know these things are evil, but your in a limited position to do anything else sadly
Quote from: SGOS on December 17, 2017, 02:08:53 PM
When I bought my first Dell, the other one that was equally recommended to me at that time was Gateway. Do they even make those anymore?
Not really. Gateway was acquired by Acer in 2007 and has since effectively ceased to exist as a distinct brand. They still have a website and a few models, but it's slim pickings. And you can't buy anything off the Gateway site; it redirects to the Acer website for "local resellers" of Gateway products.
Quote from: SGOS on December 17, 2017, 01:46:44 PM
I think it's likely to happen with any corporation that meets with phenomenal success quickly. Cabela's, as a startup 20 years ago gained popularity through highly competitive pricing, and I started buying outdoor clothing from them. Once established, they raised prices almost overnight and were soon as expensive as LL Bean. Redbox competed with lots of free movie credits, which are much harder to accumulate since it established itself. Once established, Honda quit refining their product and a few years back came out with an offering that was so substandard, not even customer loyalty could keep their base. It was so bad that they came out with a new model mid year, but I don't think they ever reestablished their credibility. I looked at them two years ago, along with Toyota, which once manufactured the best vehicle I ever owned. I ended up buying a Mazda, and bought two more since then.
I won't deny the success of corporations, but I do mourn the loss of their consumer orientation that once got them where they are today. Obviously, they still maintain consumer loyalty. People love Amazon, and there are good reasons for this too. On the other hand, some behemoths like Sears, Montgomery Wards, and Marshall Fields have dropped out of sight for reasons that I can only guess might have something to do with letting things slide, or perhaps, not paying attention, but there are probably other reasons beyond my limited knowledge that account for it. When I first got into PC computers, I bought a Dell, because the gurus were telling me their customer service was outstanding, and it turned out to be true, but I watched that go downhill, and I don't hear anything outstanding about Dell, anymore.
The corporations are dominated by Wall Street. That is why all of the previous tax cut stimulus went to stock buybacks. That is why all the coming tax cut stimulus will go to stock buybacks. We have managers, not leaders. The problem with corporations is that they are semi-immortal, unlike proprietorships. When you are immortal, you can slide, particularly in PCs ... when you are being subsidized indirectly thru massive government purchase vehicles that buy 100,000 PCs at a time. All you have to have is one bureaucrat such another off.
Quote from: SGOS on December 17, 2017, 02:08:53 PM
When I bought my first Dell, the other one that was equally recommended to me at that time was Gateway. Do they even make those anymore?
Gateway was briefly popular for government purchase, 15 years ago, and then mismanaged into insolvency. But the government didn't bail them out, they had Dell and HP. Dell nearly destroyed themselves 10 years ago, with bad motherboards. We had to replace the motherboards in every new Dell we had. Today we are on HP sometimes , but Dell made a comeback. Laptops are a different matter, but aren't purchased massively, nor are tablets.
Perhaps it is luck of location, but my delivery service from places like Amazon and Chewy seem to be as good as they ever were (2-3 days, which is great). Perhaps I have too long a memory when things were delivered in 4-6 weeks.
Amazon Could be Investigated for Late Prime Deliveries (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/12/amazon-could-be-investigated-for-late-prime-deliveries/)
I have Amazon Prime and a collection point nearby so I get my stuff next morning most of the time.
Unless it is coming on a slow boat from China.
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2017, 08:54:56 AM
Amazon Could be Investigated for Late Prime Deliveries (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/12/amazon-could-be-investigated-for-late-prime-deliveries/)
I have Amazon Prime and a collection point nearby so I get my stuff next morning most of the time.
Unless it is coming on a slow boat from China.
Well, I'm sure not going to complain. I have Amazon Prime and get prime service. And it is worth it to me.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 02:03:23 AM
Perhaps it is luck of location, but my delivery service from places like Amazon and Chewy seem to be as good as they ever were (2-3 days, which is great). Perhaps I have too long a memory when things were delivered in 4-6 weeks.
30 years ago or whenever it was I bought my first PC, the closest store where I could buy one in Montana would have been 100 miles away, and choices would have been very limited. Most everyone in my town would often drive 200 miles one way when we needed to do some serious shopping. I ordered a computer by phone directly from Dell, and it arrived the next day by UPS. It seemed like the stuff arrived in 3 or 4 large boxes that filled my living room by the time I put the parts together. I have no idea where the warehouse was. I couldn't imagine one within 500 miles, as I was in one of the most isolated towns in a state which is considered isolated itself. Needless to say, I was impressed. I remember that as my first experience with fast delivery, which soon after became customary, but isn't as good anymore unless you are willing to pay a lot for the service. Fortunately, I'm not in a hurry.
Quote from: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 11:08:56 AM
30 years ago or whenever it was I bought my first PC, the closest store where I could buy one in Montana would have been 100 miles away, and choices would have been very limited. Most everyone in my town would often drive 200 miles one way when we needed to do some serious shopping. I ordered a computer by phone directly from Dell, and it arrived the next day by UPS. It seemed like the stuff arrived in 3 or 4 large boxes that filled my living room by the time I put the parts together. I have no idea where the warehouse was. I couldn't imagine one within 500 miles, as I was in one of the most isolated towns in a state which is considered isolated itself. Needless to say, I was impressed. I remember that as my first experience with fast delivery, which soon after became customary, but isn't as good anymore unless you are willing to pay a lot for the service. Fortunately, I'm not in a hurry.
I remember reading of Texas guys driving 100 miles to get to a McDonalds... And to be honest, we used to walk 3 miles to the Ginos "downtown" for a 24 cent (you got a penny back) burger and fries. We brought our own sodas (they were expensive).
Quote from: SGOS on December 16, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
I used to be impressed, but I've gotten enough shipments from them to say with a fairly high degree of confidence that it's gone downhill, like a lot downhill. I believe it's part of their new business strategy to nickel dime customers. First, two day delivery, which used to be more or less expected back when they were good at it, is still available, but is now priced so high that it should be classified as "dire emergency" delivery. Second, free delivery is often available, especially if you make a substantial purchase, but it takes a very long time, at least compared to their service in the past.
I placed two orders two days ago, one from LL Bean, which came today as a free delivery, and placed an order from Amazon listed as "in stock", and (not one of their secondary sellers), which hasn't even been processed or shipped yet. I'm betting it's being throttled at the warehouse in order to blackmail customers into opting for Amazon Prime where two day free delivery is offered, but not all the time depending on items. I can't justify prime, because I don't buy that much stuff, and I tried it one year because of the streaming service, which didn't have enough quality. It's more like a way to get you to view their pay per view streaming, where most of the good stuff is.
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Amazon is still a good place to buy things, but not all the time, and they are cutting back on the service and quality that made them what they were. They are still expanding, and good for them, but they aren't what they used to be.
Agreed. Historically, in-stock items would arrive on the first day of their delivery window, with an immediate notification that it was on its way. Now, some of my holiday gifts may arrive late at the recipients: I didn't even get notified they'd shipped until the day
after the first day of the delivery window.
As for Prime: no way, no how, simply because of the over-aggressive way they've marketed it. I once had four interruptions between putting an item in my cart and getting to the actual payment asking me if I was really really really really REALLY sure I didn't want Prime. I ended up cancelling the order, buying it somewhere else for slightly more, and sending them a note that they just lost business because they were being spectacularly rude to their customers. I got an apology and a $10 credit, and the Prime-pushing seems to have backed off a little since then, but I don't shop Amazon as much as I used to. A lot of times nowadays, I'll go on Amazon more to get a precise part or model number, and seek the item somewhere else.
Quote from: trdsf on December 18, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
Agreed. Historically, in-stock items would arrive on the first day of their delivery window, with an immediate notification that it was on its way. Now, some of my holiday gifts may arrive late at the recipients: I didn't even get notified they'd shipped until the day after the first day of the delivery window.
As for Prime: no way, no how, simply because of the over-aggressive way they've marketed it. I once had four interruptions between putting an item in my cart and getting to the actual payment asking me if I was really really really really REALLY sure I didn't want Prime. I ended up cancelling the order, buying it somewhere else for slightly more, and sending them a note that they just lost business because they were being spectacularly rude to their customers. I got an apology and a $10 credit, and the Prime-pushing seems to have backed off a little since then, but I don't shop Amazon as much as I used to. A lot of times nowadays, I'll go on Amazon more to get a precise part or model number, and seek the item somewhere else.
Well, I like AmazonSmile Prime. I order a lot through Amazon, and Smile donates to my favorite cause - American Atheists. And I save about $400 a year in shipping. It's not for everyone, but it works for me.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 01:11:57 PM
Well, I like AmazonSmile Prime. I order a lot through Amazon, and Smile donates to my favorite cause - American Atheists. And I save about $400 a year in shipping. It's not for everyone, but it works for me.
If it makes financial sense to use it, by all means use it. It doesn't for me, and I've come to resent having Amazon shove it down my throat at every opportunity. You'd think at some point they'd give up. They won't, of course, but I don't expect rational behavior from corporations.
Quote from: trdsf on December 18, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
As for Prime: no way, no how, simply because of the over-aggressive way they've marketed it. I once had four interruptions between putting an item in my cart and getting to the actual payment asking me if I was really really really really REALLY sure I didn't want Prime. I ended up cancelling the order, buying it somewhere else for slightly more, and sending them a note that they just lost business because they were being spectacularly rude to their customers. I got an apology and a $10 credit, and the Prime-pushing seems to have backed off a little since then, but I don't shop Amazon as much as I used to. A lot of times nowadays, I'll go on Amazon more to get a precise part or model number, and seek the item somewhere else.
I have to confess I have an emotional reaction to their Prime marketing strategy also. In addition, I don't buy enough from Amazon to make Prime financially practical. Others may or may not, especially if two day shipping is that important to them. But for me, I can't save money with Prime. A couple of months ago, probably by not reading carefully enough during the checkout process (which is something Amazon marketing is designed to exploit), I somehow signed myself up for a one month free trial of Prime. Not a biggie. It didn't cost me anything, and I cancelled it right away so that at the end of the month I wouldn't be automatically charged for a year. I first tried to cancel the whole order, and I cancelled the order just fine, but was unable to cancel the free trial, but it did automatically officially expire at the end of the month because I notified them the day of the order to cancel Prime.
I want to have user friendly control over the way I buy things. I don't like them defaulting to more expensive shipping rates when I'm not looking, although I am cautious during the checkout. One time, I made a mistake during checkout and backed up to the previous page to delete an unwanted item, which was easy enough, but when I went back to checking out, they had cancelled out my shipping choice and defaulted back to the higher rate, which I didn't notice until after I had placed the order. All the defaulting for some mysterious reason, always ends up in Amazon's favor. My term for this is "chickenshit," so I just try to be extra careful to avoid getting nicked. But sometimes they slip one by me.
Quote from: trdsf on December 18, 2017, 01:40:08 PM
If it makes financial sense to use it, by all means use it. It doesn't for me, and I've come to resent having Amazon shove it down my throat at every opportunity. You'd think at some point they'd give up. They won't, of course, but I don't expect rational behavior from corporations.
Well, I also have some SERIOUS ad blockers. So that saves my sanity a bit. AOL hates it and Statcounter makes me refuse to whitelist them every time. But is does make life easier. I never buy anything just because it is advertised. I'm a real Consumer Reports type. Ads don't get me engaged at all, but they do clutter the screen, so I block them.