I haven't read Andersen's book Fantasyland yet but I thought this video makes a lot of good points on how Americans got to where we are today. I think one of the biggest transitions we are going through, which he points out, is how social media and online behavior is affecting us as individuals and society. I believe we are going through a major and unprecedented change in how we take in information and how we interact with others. We don't know what it is doing to us politically, culturally, economically and psychologically in the long term. I don't think the technology is bad but we still don't know how to best apply it or where it is leading us.
https://youtu.be/XirnEfkdQJM
Virginians did get rich ... but not with gold, with tobacco. The US has been a drug pusher (sugar, rum, tobacco) from the beginning ... if you include the Caribbean. The South didn't make much money from cotton, due to Egyptian and Indian competition, until the cotton gin was developed. Slavery was on the way out, until the cotton gin made it profitable again. All the cloth making at this time was in England, so that is where the cotton sailed to.
Yes, this is where the Europeans sent their losers, until Canada and Australia became more available as a dumping ground.
Reality = European monarchy and papacy and warfare? We fled from that reality.
Its not just technology. Don’t forget there are rich people and politicians that want to divide us so that they can manipulate us for their benefit.
We have this thing that has done a good job in the south called the GOP. GOP(government of the president) was invented while Nixon was president, but he screwed up their plans so they had to wait for a later time. The mission of Republican GOP is to destroy and permanently put down the Democratic party by any means. That includes: lying, stealing, bribery, planting false evidence. and if uou didnt know already Fox Entertainment Center is the whore of the GOP.
Unfortunately the same people that can be fooled by religous manipulation can be fooled by political manipulation.
Quote from: fencerider on December 09, 2017, 03:16:09 PM
Its not just technology. Don’t forget there are rich people and politicians that want to divide us so that they can manipulate us for their benefit.
Some argue technology allows the rich to do this with greater efficiency and subtly. As I see it there is nothing subtle about it.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/29/15100620/congress-fcc-isp-web-browsing-privacy-fire-sale
The GOP is fighting to return to 1900. The Dems are searching for 2100. I like their goals better.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 12, 2017, 02:32:34 AM
The GOP is fighting to return to 1900. The Dems are searching for 2100. I like their goals better.
If only that were true. I thought like you, in 1974.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 09, 2017, 11:59:40 AM
From the video:
"Trump. We should have seen this coming."
He states that like it was a big surprise, but many people did see it coming. Perhaps a bit surprised by Trump, but expecting a leadership where political chaos, nonsense, and alternate "facts" becomes the order of business. We were heading in the direction where fantasy becomes the new reality, and was viewed as political salvation by a semiconscious public. That was happening, and many people saw it being nurtured by our leaders and the media. Many people saw the outcome. Many hoped they could continue on and the decline would be postponed for a few more years, while we endorsed the same old habits under the banner of free speech, democracy, and trust of those who told us what we wanted to hear. And there is no indication that voters are now in the process of waking up and accurately assessing how they let it happen.
Quote
"We don't know where the new media, and the fantasy thinking will eventually lead us. It might not be a collapse."
That's the same attitude we have been displaying for generations. The hope that somehow better judgment will prevail as we gain momentum on our slide down the slope of fantasy. Some day we will look back fondly as this time being a golden age we long to return to. You thought Bush was the destroyer? Obama was a charlatan? Trump is a self aggrandizing fool? The direction we are going has been apparent for years, just as the same direction is apparent right now. There is no theoretical bottom where things can't be worse than they were before. We know that now. What reason is there to believe the direction will change? The indicators just aren't there, and there is no reason to believe a cliché like, "It's always darkest before the dawn," should give us hope. Because it's even darker when you're dead under a pile of rubble.
Quote from: fencerider on December 09, 2017, 03:16:09 PM
Its not just technology. Don’t forget there are rich people and politicians that want to divide us so that they can manipulate us for their benefit.
NPR interviewed a political science guy a while back who talked about Russian meddling in US politics. This should not be a surprise because they meddle in the politics of many other countries too. "Their goal is to weaken political systems so they can spread Russian style corruption to as many other countries as they can," he pointed out. A bigger threat than Russian meddling are our own political leaders and their media for causing every bit as much division in the population at large for their own benefit and their own style of political corruption. We can divide the country well enough on our own without outside help.
Quote from: SGOS on December 12, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
NPR interviewed a political science guy a while back who talked about Russian meddling in US politics. This should not be a surprise because they meddle in the politics of many other countries too. "Their goal is to weaken political systems so they can spread Russian style corruption to as many other countries as they can," he pointed out. A bigger threat than Russian meddling are our own political leaders and their media for causing every bit as much division in the population at large for their own benefit and their own style of political corruption. We can divide the country well enough on our own without outside help.
Be a patriot. Support only American mobsters!
Quote from: SGOS on December 12, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
NPR interviewed a political science guy a while back who talked about Russian meddling in US politics. This should not be a surprise because they meddle in the politics of many other countries too. "Their goal is to weaken political systems so they can spread Russian style corruption to as many other countries as they can," he pointed out. A bigger threat than Russian meddling are our own political leaders and their media for causing every bit as much division in the population at large for their own benefit and their own style of political corruption. We can divide the country well enough on our own without outside help.
If our own political system was clean, we wouldn't have to worry about the Russians much. And while I won't say the Democrats are pure, the Republicans are sure less so.
There is an official term going around for that "least dirty shirt". Look ... NorK is not as happy a place as the US, so the US must be wonderful. And besides, reality isn't liberal ... it is tooth and claw.
Quote from: Baruch on December 15, 2017, 05:14:30 AM
There is an official term going around for that "least dirty shirt". Look ... NorK is not as happy a place as the US, so the US must be wonderful. And besides, reality isn't liberal ... it is tooth and claw.
Craziness in one place like NK doesn't mean that any other places are necessarily sane. Iran, Syria, and Turkey are also doing the job just fine lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv1nK3iYVos
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2017, 09:06:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv1nK3iYVos
And your point is?...
QuoteAnd your point is?...
Crazy. That's it.
And a nice song too.
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2017, 09:40:33 AM
Crazy. That's it.
And a nice song too.
Oh man, I KNEW that song but didn't recognize it from your post. Yeah, that a good oldie.
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2017, 09:40:33 AM
Crazy. That's it.
I will say with a great deal of self satisfaction that I understood the point of your link. The world always did seem a little crazy, but in he last few years, it's gone from 'seeming crazy' to certifiable, and it's getting more so exponentially. I once imagined the end of mankind happening in drawn out hopeless pain and suffering in some distant future, but now I'm thinking I might actually live long enough to watch it happen as we end it all in blaze of mindless insanity of laughter and glee as a final solution of retribution and worldwide satisfaction. But I cannot imagine mankind once again rebuilding itself from the rubble and ash. Who the fuck would want to start it all over again?
Quote from: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 01:14:23 PM
I will say with a great deal of self satisfaction that I understood the point of your link. The world always did seem a little crazy, but in he last few years, it's gone from 'seeming crazy' to certifiable, and it's getting more so exponentially. I once imagined the end of mankind happening in drawn out hopeless pain and suffering in some distant future, but now I'm thinking I might actually live long enough to watch it happen as we end it all in blaze of mindless insanity of laughter and glee as a final solution of retribution and worldwide satisfaction. But I cannot imagine mankind once again rebuilding itself from the rubble and ash. Who the fuck would want to start it all over again?
Humankind could vanish from the planet tomorrow and it would be better for all the other plants and animals in the world. Not saying I'm volunteering us to do that, but, "you know'...
And there might not ever be a self-aware intelligent being again, but Earth won't mind...
I finished reading Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire: A 500 Year History and it was both wittier and more educational than I anticipated. Andersen chronicles how from the beginning Americans have been exceptional at creating and consuming fantasies. It's a land of magical thinkers, hustlers, dreamers, doomsday prophets, gurus, conspiracy theorists and rubes willing to buy it. The book makes a convincing case that the concern over "fake news" is just the latest iteration of American's creating their own reality, facts be damned. For example, I had no idea there a slavery-themed park was erected in Brooklyn with reenactments of "the labors that the Negroes of slavery days engaged in, and the happy careless that lived in their cabins after work." It's definitely an entertaining book.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 18, 2017, 02:49:17 PM
I finished reading Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire: A 500 Year History and it was both wittier and more educational than I anticipated. Andersen chronicles how from the beginning Americans have been exceptional at creating and consuming fantasies. It's a land of magical thinkers, hustlers, dreamers, doomsday prophets, gurus, conspiracy theorists and rubes willing to buy it. The book makes a convincing case that the concern over "fake news" is just the latest iteration of American's creating their own reality, facts be damned. For example, I had no idea there a slavery-themed park was erected in Brooklyn with reenactments of "the labors that the Negroes of slavery days engaged in, and the happy careless that lived in their cabins after work." It's definitely an entertaining book.
OK, yes, USians are good at that. We're #1...
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 18, 2017, 02:49:17 PM
I finished reading Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire: A 500 Year History and it was both wittier and more educational than I anticipated. Andersen chronicles how from the beginning Americans have been exceptional at creating and consuming fantasies. It's a land of magical thinkers, hustlers, dreamers, doomsday prophets, gurus, conspiracy theorists and rubes willing to buy it. The book makes a convincing case that the concern over "fake news" is just the latest iteration of American's creating their own reality, facts be damned. For example, I had no idea there a slavery-themed park was erected in Brooklyn with reenactments of "the labors that the Negroes of slavery days engaged in, and the happy careless that lived in their cabins after work." It's definitely an entertaining book.
Even before Jamestown, Francis Bacon et al were plotting away ... and trying to figure out how to get everyone in England addicted to smoking. What they were thinking of was ... "New Atlantis" and "Anglo-American Israelitism". There are Japanese who figure they are a "lost tribe". Englishmen were into that 400 years ago, and I know someone just up the road who still is. Most posters here are from "New Atlantis". I am expecting them to sink N America under the waves and grow gills, any day now ;-)) Remember, the British Empire sent their less stable characters here until 1783.
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:39:51 PM
Even before Jamestown, Francis Bacon et al were plotting away ... and trying to figure out how to get everyone in England addicted to smoking. What they were thinking of was ... "New Atlantis" and "Anglo-American Israelitism". There are Japanese who figure they are a "lost tribe". Englishmen were into that 400 years ago, and I know someone just up the road who still is. Most posters here are from "New Atlantis". I am expecting them to sink N America under the waves and grow gills, any day now ;-)) Remember, the British Empire sent their less stable characters here until 1783.
You will say anything inaccurate just to try to gain a minor point, won't you?
Jamestown, nor Bacon originated tobacco smoking. The plant family Nicotiana and the word nicotine is named after Jean Nicot who brought tobacco seeds to Europe in 1560. He introduced snuff (tobacco that is inhaled) to the French court and from here the use of the product spread around Europe.
You might note that is well before Jamestown. The weed was cultivated by the Native Americans.
Their pre-avenge on us, I suppose.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 03:48:35 AM
You will say anything inaccurate just to try to gain a minor point, won't you?
Jamestown, nor Bacon originated tobacco smoking. The plant family Nicotiana and the word nicotine is named after Jean Nicot who brought tobacco seeds to Europe in 1560. He introduced snuff (tobacco that is inhaled) to the French court and from here the use of the product spread around Europe.
You might note that is well before Jamestown. The weed was cultivated by the Native Americans.
Their pre-avenge on us, I suppose.
What the Natives did, and the Spanish did, wasn't relevant to the string. Americans think that America ends at the American border. This is about British imperial drug pushing.
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 08:53:20 AM
What the Natives did, and the Spanish did, wasn't relevant to the string. Americans think that America ends at the American border. This is about British imperial drug pushing.
You miss the point. It wasn't the British or American colonists who spread the tobacco habit.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
You miss the point. It wasn't the British or American colonists who spread the tobacco habit.
Perhaps not initially. But I read recently, that the quality of tobacco in the Caribbean was quickly found to be inferior to the Virginia kind. But maybe that was just early Virginian Slims branding ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 01:27:58 PM
Perhaps not initially. But I read recently, that the quality of tobacco in the Caribbean was quickly found to be inferior to the Virginia kind. But maybe that was just early Virginian Slims branding ;-)
I'm glad you realize the difference between originating something and improving on it for commercial purposes. Like that coffee you drink in the morning? Or pineapples. Or sugar? Same thing.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 02:31:49 PM
I'm glad you realize the difference between originating something and improving on it for commercial purposes. Like that coffee you drink in the morning? Or pineapples. Or sugar? Same thing.
China and Korea had printing before Europe ... but who overturned history with printing? It helped having an alphabet.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Humankind could vanish from the planet tomorrow and it would be better for all the other plants and animals in the world. Not saying I'm volunteering us to do that, but, "you know'...
And there might not ever be a self-aware intelligent being again, but Earth won't mind...
I'm a member in good standing of
VHEMT (http://www.vhemt.org/) - if we'd just stop breeding we could go on out with a whimper, not a bang.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 26, 2017, 03:41:44 PM
I'm a member in good standing of VHEMT (http://www.vhemt.org/) - if we'd just stop breeding we could go on out with a whimper, not a bang.
That is impressive. But I'm not ready to go quietly into the dark night yet...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
That is impressive. But I'm not ready to go quietly into the dark night yet...
Easy ... turn off your lights, get in bed, get a good night's rest.