https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/world/middleeast/american-embassy-israel-trump-move.html
QuoteWASHINGTON â€" President Trump plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the American Embassy there, upending nearly seven decades of American foreign policy and potentially destroying his efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
Mr. Trump’s decision, a high-risk foray into the thicket of the Middle East, was driven not by diplomatic calculations but by a campaign promise. He appealed to evangelicals and ardently pro-Israel American Jews in 2016 by vowing to move the embassy, and advisers said on Tuesday he was determined to make good on his word.
But the president, faced with a deadline of this past Monday to make that decision, still plans to sign a national security waiver to keep the embassy in Tel Aviv for an additional six months, even as he set in motion a plan to move it to Jerusalem. Officials said the process would take several years.
More significantly, Mr. Trump is to announce his formal recognition of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital in a formal speech at the White House on Wednesday, when he will become the first American president to take that step since the founding of Israel in 1948.
The entire world is saying, "Please... please... please, don't do that. That is stupid af." ... and Trump don't give a shit.
So, as an atheist... chili, what is Saint Magas excuse this time? You don't buy the Holy Land b.s. I am assuming, so what logical reason is there for him to do something that is intentionally lighting a match in a room full of gunpowder?
PM Israel -> Kushner -> Trump. The US has been taking orders from Israel for a long time now. It can't get much closer.
Trump is a guy who loves to surround himself with chaos. He seems to feed off of it, and so keeps it going. Now he gets to do this on a world wide basis. His one overriding goal is to create more wealth for him and his family. He does not care how he does it. Since he has nothing that can be called a moral or ethic or positive value system, he cares not what he does as long as there is some benefit for himself. I do fear that he also wants to have his war--he does not care where it happens as long as it does.
Mike CL wrote:QuoteHis one overriding goal is to create more wealth for him and his family. He does not care how he does it.
Seems to be the trait of almost all presidents. ...Clintons anyone?
Trump is already a billionaire.
Quote from: pr126 on December 06, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Mike CL wrote:Seems to be the trait of almost all presidents. ...Clintons anyone?
Trump is already a billionaire.
Whataboutism, the biggest trend of 2017.
Quote from: pr126 on December 06, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Mike CL wrote:Seems to be the trait of almost all presidents. ...Clintons anyone?
Trump is already a billionaire.
Is Trump a billionaire? When has he proved that? And even if he is, so what? Does a person stop being greedy when they reach a certain level of wealth??? And it also does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that he regarded true wealth is total power. Do you think people like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc were poor people??? Are the Clintons wealthy? Of course. Name a person in congress that is not. And great wealth does not keep a person from being evil. And trump is simply evil.
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 06, 2017, 10:40:49 AM
Trump is a guy who loves to surround himself with chaos. He seems to feed off of it, and so keeps it going. Now he gets to do this on a world wide basis. His one overriding goal is to create more wealth for him and his family. He does not care how he does it. Since he has nothing that can be called a moral or ethic or positive value system, he cares not what he does as long as there is some benefit for himself. I do fear that he also wants to have his war--he does not care where it happens as long as it does.
The disruptive business opportunities, created by chaos capitalism ... and exploited thru crony capitalism ... what is not to like? Kiss your ass goodbye, while you are still limber enough ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 06, 2017, 02:55:15 PM
Is Trump a billionaire? When has he proved that? And even if he is, so what? Does a person stop being greedy when they reach a certain level of wealth??? And it also does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that he regarded true wealth is total power. Do you think people like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc were poor people??? Are the Clintons wealthy? Of course. Name a person in congress that is not. And great wealth does not keep a person from being evil. And trump is simply evil.
G-d is Satan. Trump is Satan. Trump is G-d. Bow down and genuflect to his Trump Hams ;-))
Thinking that candidate X is the messiah ... is crazy.
Thinking that candidate Y is the anti-christ ... is also crazy.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 06, 2017, 12:47:46 PM
Whataboutism, the biggest trend of 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Both parties use it ... only Democrats highlight their fake concern for minorities and the poor, Republicans highlight their fake concern for rule of law and responsible economics.
Quote from: Baruch on December 06, 2017, 08:20:44 PM
G-d is Satan. Trump is Satan. Trump is G-d. Bow down and genuflect to his Trump Hams ;-))
Thinking that candidate X is the messiah ... is crazy.
Thinking that candidate Y is the anti-christ ... is also crazy.
That is what Trump wants you to think.
Why does America have the authority to declare what is and isn't the capital of a foreign nation?
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 06, 2017, 11:48:30 PM
Why does America have the authority to declare what is and isn't the capital of a foreign nation?
Recognize =/= declare.
Israel has said it's capital is Jerusalem since 48' ... the rest of the world said, "No, it's not." until today. As the major force trying to broker peace between the two sides, with the biggest conflict being over who should control Jerusalem... this is us saying that Israel is the rightful owner of Jerusalem and thus saying we are taking an extremely biased side in Israel's favour, which a mediator cant do.
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 06, 2017, 09:02:41 PM
That is what Trump wants you to think.
Trump is wrong. Hillary is G-d, and Comey says so ;-))
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 06, 2017, 11:48:30 PM
Why does America have the authority to declare what is and isn't the capital of a foreign nation?
We/they don't, it is pure red meat for the 6 billion Jewish-American voters in NYC ;-(
Quote from: Shiranu on December 06, 2017, 11:51:50 PM
Recognize =/= declare.
Israel has said it's capital is Jerusalem since 48' ... the rest of the world said, "No, it's not." until today. As the major force trying to broker peace between the two sides, with the biggest conflict being over who should control Jerusalem... this is us saying that Israel is the rightful owner of Jerusalem and thus saying we are taking an extremely biased side in Israel's favour, which a mediator cant do.
Abbas says ... US is fired as mediator. About time! Bring the troops home!!
The "Peace Process" is a sham. There can never be peace between Muslims and Jews. Allah forbids it.
But it was/is the favorite pipedream for everyone except the Muslims who are not going to accept anything except the total annihilation of Israel.
The HAMAS Charter (http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html)
Article Thirteen
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: "Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware."
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
I read a recent headline, only the headline, however: "Moving the Capitol of Israel has Been in the Works for Years." I took this to mean that Trump did not conceive the idea, but it began under another administration. It could also mean that move is something outside the prevue of the United States. But I can't find the story now.
I kean Congress did sign the recognition of Jerusalem as Capitol back in the 90s and every president has pushed it off since the . Maybe that’s what it meant
I found the article. It's one of those interview formats, and for whatever reason, I usually avoid those. I glanced at it and read parts of it just now. Not sure what to think. The problem I see is that it might encourage Israel to force Palestinians out, which is not a direction we probably want to pursue. Either way, we are not going to stop Israeli aggression or Palestinian blow back, but I don't know that for sure.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=20639
Quote from: SGOS on December 07, 2017, 11:48:29 AM
I found the article. It's one of those interview formats, and for whatever reason, I usually avoid those. I glanced at it and read parts of it just now. Not sure what to think. The problem I see is that it might encourage Israel to force Palestinians out, which is not a direction we probably want to pursue. Either way, we are not going to stop Israeli aggression or Palestinian blow back, but I don't know that for sure.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=20639
Yes, late last year, President Obama tried to pee on BeeBee. Not kosher.
Definitely kind of ... "you and him go fight" kind of deal. Definitely stay far from this one .. there are no winners.
Bad scenario ...
Russia and Iran continue to make gains in the ME ...
Russia and Iran threaten Israel ...
Russia offers to Iran, to do Final Solution ...
Russia nukes Tel Aviv, Moscow and Teheran get nuked by Israel.
Meanwhile American Evangelical Christians dance in the streets, and Muslims dance in the streets (they are ideological cousins).
Quote from: Shiranu on December 05, 2017, 10:25:44 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/world/middleeast/american-embassy-israel-trump-move.html
The entire world is saying, "Please... please... please, don't do that. That is stupid af." ... and Trump don't give a shit.
Well, as Colbert said, Chump's actually united the world!
Quote from: pr126 on December 06, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Trump is already a billionaire.
So he claims, but I've seen no real evidence of it.
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 06, 2017, 11:48:30 PM
Why does America have the authority to declare what is and isn't the capital of a foreign nation?
I was wondering the same thing. Just how powerful
is the "leader of the free world"? Can he, by fiat, declare another nation's capital? Seems pretty silly to me...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 07, 2017, 02:30:57 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Just how powerful is the "leader of the free world"? Can he, by fiat, declare another nation's capital? Seems pretty silly to me...
Trump is pretty silly. So silly I think that he has let BeeBee egg him into starting WW III in the ME ... to compete with the one forming in Korea.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 07, 2017, 02:30:57 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Just how powerful is the "leader of the free world"? Can he, by fiat, declare another nation's capital? Seems pretty silly to me...
Actually, it is Israel who wants its capital to be Jerusalem, while other countries say no, you can't.
Weird, what?
Quote from: pr126 on December 07, 2017, 11:42:21 PM
Actually, it is Israel who wants its capital to be Jerusalem, while other countries say no, you can't.
Weird, what?
Funny how over time, the same Left that was massacred by Hitler, has come to be anti-Semitic too. But then Stalin wanted to kill Jews, but Hitler beat him to it.
A little story:
Muhammad instructed his folks to pray towards Jerusalem, to entice the Jews to join his cult.
When the Jews refused, he got miffed and said OK, sod you lot, and changed the direction of prayer towards Mekka. Then he slaughtered them. Yes, he was really angry.
But there is also evidence that the original kibla was in Petra and later changed to Mekka.
Quote from: pr126 on December 07, 2017, 11:59:18 PM
A little story:
Muhammad instructed his folks to pray towards Jerusalem, to entice the Jews to join his cult.
When the Jews refused, he got miffed and said OK, sod you lot, and changed the direction of prayer towards Mekka. Then he slaughtered them. Yes, he was really angry.
But there is also evidence that the original kibla was in Petra and later changed to Mekka.
"Consistency is the hob-goblin of little camels" ... misquote of Emerson by Muhammad ;-)
The Jews Muhammad slaughtered, were Arab Jews ... so not true Jews ;-)
Pagans, Hanifs, Christians, and Jews lived in peace on the Arabian peninsula until Muhammad got his "calling".
After that, Jihad (Holy war) for the next 14 centuries. Still ongoing.
What is jihad?
Quote“Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the UTMOST IMPORTANCE in Islam and is ONE OF ITS PILLARS. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an OBLIGATORY DUTY in Islam ON EVERY MUSLIMS. He who tries to escape from this duty, or DOES NOT FULFILL HIS DUTY, dies as a hypocrite.†â€" footnotes on p.39, ‘The Noble Koran’, published by King Fahd Complex for Publication of the Quran, Madinah, KSA.
JIHADISM (the doctrine that jihad is the most important action of Muslims) is FUNDAMENTAL, CANONICAL, ‘ESSENTIAL’ Islam, rather than an aberration.
Legal Definition of Jihad from the ‘Reliance of the Traveller’ (book of Sharia law)
â€" “Jihad is a communal obligation,†meaning upon the Muslims each year. [Reliance of the Traveller, Book O9.1]
Jihad is something Muslims must do against non-Muslims every year. Exactly what is it?
â€" Chapter O9.0: Jihad : (O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion.
â€" O9.8: The Objectives of Jihad : The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians…
â€" O9.9 : The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book …
Qur’an 2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.â€
Those who do not commit jihad are “hypocritesâ€
Qur’an 4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a RANK HIGHER to those who strive hard, FIGHTING JIHAD with their wealth and bodies to those who sit. Allah prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit at home. He has distinguished his fighters with a HUGE REWARD.â€
Jihad brings the greatest “reward†from Allah, thus it is the highest deed in Islam.
Bukhari:V4B52N44 “A man came to Allah’s Apostle and said, ‘Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad in reward.’ He replied, ‘I do not find such a deed.'â€
Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the BEST DEED?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To PARTICIPATE IN JIHAD, RELIGIOUS FIGHTING in Allah’s Cause.'â€
Jihadists are the “real†Muslims
Qur’an 33:22 “Among the Believers are men who have been TRUE to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for JIHAD (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to the EXTREM and have been MARTYRED FIGHTING AND DYING in His Cause, and some are waiting, PREPARED FOR DEATH in battle.â€
This is going to go over like a fart in church.
Quote from: pr126 on December 07, 2017, 11:42:21 PM
Actually, it is Israel who wants its capital to be Jerusalem, while other countries say no, you can't.
Weird, what?
Out of curiosity, since you have said the Democrats, the Muslims, the world... everyone is in the wrong except the Israelis and Trump, does that mean you support Trump's decision to become the first state to recognize a neutral city as the exclusive capital of the Israeli people, when even previous Israeli leaders and non-Zionists wanted it set up this way until the peace talks were nearly finished?
All I have seen is how terrible everyone is, but you haven't actually "said" anything relevant.
QuotePagans, Hanifs, Christians, and Jews lived in peace on the Arabian peninsula until Muhammad got his "calling".
Going to need some sources on that. Off the top of my head, Babylon vs Jews, Egypt vs Jews, Persia vs All (while tolerant, did require them to submit to the Persian state), Greece vs all (tolerant, but again required them to submit to the Greek state), Roman vs all (tolerant, again required all to submit to the Roman state), cant really say much about Assyrian and Neo-Assyrian religious tolerance because that is reaching the point where history is not very clearly recorded, the Gnostics, the Armenian Christians vs others... shit, just open up the Old Testament, it is literally story after story after story of one religious/cultural group fighting another religious/cultural group.
I'm sorry, but saying the Middle East was peaceful and everyone got along before Islam is like saying Europe was peaceful before WW2. It's just... wrong. There is not a shred of saving grace for just how wrong that statement is.
The peace talks were a sham, a pipe dream, simply impossible.
Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace with Israel.
Anyone else from the Arabs trying to do that, his life expectancy will be in days, not weeks.
You have no idea how much the Muslims hate the Yahood. They want them all dead to the last one.
Are you on a night shift?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on December 08, 2017, 12:30:54 AM
This is going to go over like a fart in church.
Now Iraqis claim they have reason to make war on the US. Since when? 2003 or earlier! This is called "fake news" Arab style. The US has given questionable support to Israel since 1948. Getting every Muslim everywhere, claim that they need to kill all Americans? Perfect to revive the flagging "war on terror" and justify MIC expansion. The Arabs are being trolled, by the MIC and Israel, thru Trump. Like chumps that they are, they are taking the bait. Agenda 21 coming.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2017, 05:42:34 AM
The peace talks were a sham, a pipe dream, simply impossible.
Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace with Israel.
Anyone else from the Arabs trying to do that, his life expectancy will be in days, not weeks.
You have no idea how much the Muslims hate the Yahood. They want them all dead to the last one.
Are you on a night shift?
Not just Israel. Arabs have been jealous and violent for 5000 years now. Narmer palette, Pharaoh bashing in the head of a Semite. It is what it is, need to get over it.
Baruch wroteQuoteAgenda 21 coming.
Yeah. The great culling of the herd. We live in interesting times.
The elite will retire to a safe distance and watch it on the TV.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2017, 05:42:34 AM
The peace talks were a sham, a pipe dream, simply impossible.
Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace with Israel.
Anyone else from the Arabs trying to do that, his life expectancy will be in days, not weeks.
You have no idea how much the Muslims hate the Yahood. They want them all dead to the last one.
Are you on a night shift?
And yet again, you did not actually answer any question relevant to the thread; do you believe Trump was justified in recognizing a neutral city as belonging solely to Israel when even previous Israeli leaders as modern non-Zionists didn't think that was a good idea?
Quote...Pharaoh bashing in the head of a Semite.
Egyptians 5000 years ago were not Arab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm42_08Uv5g
Egyptians are Hamites ... not Semites. Pharaoh is the original anti-Semite ... the guy getting his head bashed in by Pharaoh, is the Semite. Back then, there were no Hebrews, but there were Arabs aka bedouin. Pharaoh also was good at killing Berbers. The Berbers lived W of the Nile, the Semites lived E of the Nile. Of course the Pharaoh, as god-incarnate ... had more power than Nixon ;-) Nixon only thought he was the head of a government. Pharaoh was head of the universe.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm42_08Uv5g
Israel is like a bad Baltimore neighborhood. You couldn't feed me all the felafel in Tel Aviv to live there. Just gang warfare.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 08, 2017, 12:17:01 PM
And yet again, you did not actually answer any question relevant to the thread; do you believe Trump was justified in recognizing a neutral city as belonging solely to Israel when even previous Israeli leaders as modern non-Zionists didn't think that was a good idea?
Egyptians 5000 years ago were not Arab.
Hey bud, I owe you nothing. I can reply or ignore you as I please.
Get lost.
"previous Israeli leaders as modern non-Zionists" ... what kind of pink elephant is that?
All Israeli leaders were and are Zionists. They just didn't have the chutzpah of Trump ;-( But yes, definitely a bad idea. But then BeeBee is a bad man.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2017, 12:37:08 PM
Hey bud, I owe you nothing. I can reply or ignore you as I please.
Get lost.
Well, thank you for at least having the honesty to admit you have nothing relevant to say, even if you will only admit it in a roundabout way.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 08, 2017, 12:17:01 PM
And yet again, you did not actually answer any question relevant to the thread; do you believe Trump was justified in recognizing a neutral city as belonging solely to Israel when even previous Israeli leaders as modern non-Zionists didn't think that was a good idea?
Egyptians 5000 years ago were not Arab.
Didn't Obama do that, and Bush, and Clinton. When all most prior presidents say the same thing, it doesn't give much weight to this being just a trump thing.
Trump is the first foreign head of state to recognize it, so no they didn't.
Quote from: Munch on December 08, 2017, 03:59:22 PM
Didn't Obama do that, and Bush, and Clinton. When all most prior presidents say the same thing, it doesn't give much weight to this being just a trump thing.
Prior Presidents said it, but didn't mean it. Now people think that Trump has said it, and means it. But then Trump is our first crypto-Jewish President.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWrvPvo8yXc
but Obama was anti-BeeBee.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2017, 05:42:34 AM
Anwar Sadat got assassinated for making peace with Israel.
No mention of Yitzhak Rabin?
The Israeli Government maintains its governmental offices in West Jerusalem. The US Ambassador says that for all practical purposes, his office is in Jerusalem. So I think that, as a practical matter, the US embassy should probably be there.
BUT! Trump gave the Israelis something they have been wanting for decades with out getting anything in return that the US wants (like stopping settlements). And that from someone who considers himself a skilled negotiator?
Great! Now, aside from being a groper, a fraud, and a liar, he isn't even good at negotiating? And we see that he isn't even good at firing people in real life (it seems to frighten him, so he just tries to ANNOY people into quitting).
Does he have ANY skill beyond demagoguery and deception?
Well we didn't show any particular enthusiasm for this at synagogue Friday night. We expect persecution every day of every year. But we had better than average attendance. I think the general feeling that history is happening ... and my feeling about that is ... history results in lots of dead bodies.
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 05:04:37 AM
Well we didn't show any particular enthusiasm for this at synagogue Friday night. We expect persecution every day of every year. But we had better than average attendance. I think the general feeling that history is happening ... and my feeling about that is ... history results in lots of dead bodies.
Bloodless revolutions are a hallmark of internal democratic (small d) changes.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 05:26:21 AM
Bloodless revolutions are a hallmark of internal democratic (small d) changes.
Left = bloodless revolutions are false revolutions, they make no impression without corpses.
Right = no revolutions at all, even bloodless elections have to be narrative controlled, so the right quislings are elected.
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 05:28:38 AM
Left = bloodless revolutions are false revolutions, they make no impression without corpses.
Right = no revolutions at all, even bloodless elections have to be narrative controlled, so the right quislings are elected.
A proper revolution should never be noticed.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 05:53:16 AM
A proper revolution should never be noticed.
Only if you are on a revolving chair, and not too fast.
Or are you talking about spy operation that overthrows a State?