http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/supreme-court-travel-ban/index.html
QuoteThe US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal.
This is the first time justices have allowed any edition of the ban to go forward in its entirety. It signals that some of the justices might be distinguishing the latest version from previous iterations and could be more likely, in the future, to rule in favor of the ban.
Issued in September, the third edition of the travel ban placed varying levels of restrictions on foreign nationals from eight countries: Chad, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Syria, Venezuela, Somalia and Yemen.
Yes, several of those countries are not Muslim; I recommend watching the video embedded in the link that explains there is almost zero immigration from Chad & Venezuela, and only diplomats really travel from North Korea to the U.S. anyways, making it a way to undercut the idea of it being a "Muslim" ban.
In reality, 99.99% of the people it effects are Muslim, but this is a way to undercut that narrative and make it seem more benign and, well, less bigoted, then it actually is.
Would be easy to be fair. Ban all travel to the US by non-US citizens, particularly UN and embassy personnel ;-) When the EMP goes off, there will be no way to process the visas anyway ;-(
Quote from: Shiranu on December 04, 2017, 06:37:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/supreme-court-travel-ban/index.html
Yes, several of those countries are not Muslim; I recommend watching the video embedded in the link that explains there is almost zero immigration from Chad & Venezuela, and only diplomats really travel from North Korea to the U.S. anyways, making it a way to undercut the idea of it being a "Muslim" ban.
In reality, 99.99% of the people it effects are Muslim, but this is a way to undercut that narrative and make it seem more benign and, well, less bigoted, then it actually is.
Banning all Moslems in order to prevent terrorists is too blunt a tool. And Moslem terrorists are not our biggest problem. South and Central American gangs are. Shall we (can we) ban all of them too. As Christians? That would be the same as banning all Moslems.
There are Asian gangs in the US and members joining them. Shall we ban all Asians?
We have to selectively identify bad individuals, not whole groups. Or we become an isolated country that also loses the benefits of good people who come here.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 04:17:47 AM
Banning all Moslems in order to prevent terrorists is too blunt a tool. And Moslem terrorists are not our biggest problem. South and Central American gangs are. Shall we (can we) ban all of them too. As Christians? That would be the same as banning all Moslems.
There are Asian gangs in the US and members joining them. Shall we ban all Asians?
We have to selectively identify bad individuals, not whole groups. Or we become an isolated country that also loses the benefits of good people who come here.
I happen to agree, if that was what the government is trying to do. They are banning travelers from countries that don't adhere to good enough vetting of passengers. So all passengers, regardless of religion, are banned from those countries.
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 05:24:18 AM
I happen to agree, if that was what the government is trying to do. They are banning travelers from countries that don't adhere to good enough vetting of passengers. So all passengers, regardless of religion, are banned from those countries.
Nice try, but there are many counties with equally poor vetting that aren't banned.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 05:57:15 AM
Nice try, but there are many counties with equally poor vetting that aren't banned.
So propose more countries to ban. You are making a conspiracy theory about Islamophobia.
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 09:50:19 AM
So propose more countries to ban. You are making a conspiracy theory about Islamophobia.
Are you dense or what? I specifically said not moslem countries. You are just a troll.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 05:13:52 AM
Are you dense or what? I specifically said not moslem countries. You are just a troll.
It is American to criticize government policy. I am sure you did that with your supervisors when you worked for the government ;-) You chimed in implying ... Rs are Islamaphobes ... in a context where the meme is ... Ds are for Muslims. My misunderstanding.
So are you or are you not, in favor of vetting foreign ports of entry or not?
QuoteThe US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal.
I wasn't aware that any appeal was possible after a SCOTUS decision. So what appeal is the article talking about?
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 28, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
I wasn't aware that any appeal was possible after a SCOTUS decision. So what appeal is the article talking about?
Please leave the poster's name in the quote. I can't find who said such nonsense. And it is of course. LOL!
It's a quote from the article that was posted in the OP.
Quote from: Baruch on February 28, 2018, 06:14:56 AM
It is American to criticize government policy. I am sure you did that with your supervisors when you worked for the government ;-) You chimed in implying ... Rs are Islamaphobes ... in a context where the meme is ... Ds are for Muslims. My misunderstanding.
So are you or are you not, in favor of vetting foreign ports of entry or not?
You weren't criticizing govt policy; you were disagreeing with me.
And vetting foreign ports is an entirely different question. We don't have that sovereign right. We can only vet ships coming into ours. Not that we can't do some security spying, of course...
"The US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal." ... first sentence of the original article. The SCOTUS hasn't made a final determination, until they choose to. It depends on how many times and for what reasons the lower court issues a stay, against how many times the order is rewritten to match up with what appears to be legal. Must be nice being a judge.
Originally there was the "order" .. then a lower court issued a stay. then the "order" was revised one or more times .. then a lower court issued another stay. Which means that the law, as written at that point in time, is unenforcible. Once the lower courts get done with dodge ball, then it may be appealed to the SCOTUS ... who can order that the lower court judgement be sent back to the lower court for further review (in effect lifting the lower court stay). SCOTUS hasn't yet decided, if there are some conditions under which some stay would be legit, against whatever the current version of the order says.
And the ultimate appeal against SCOTUS is a new law written by Congress. Congress could choose to overturn Citizen's United for example.
Quote from: Baruch on February 28, 2018, 01:58:57 PM
And the ultimate appeal against SCOTUS is a new law written by Congress. Congress could choose to overturn Citizen's United for example.
That's not "an appeal"...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
You weren't criticizing govt policy; you were disagreeing with me.
And vetting foreign ports is an entirely different question. We don't have that sovereign right. We can only vet ships coming into ours. Not that we can't do some security spying, of course...
By ports I meant ports of entry, which includes airports. Your point is now clear ... US law is unenforcible outside the US. I would tend to agree. In that case cancel all non-military travel to or from the US. Foreigners can't be allowed into the US, and all foreigners currently here need to be deported. Not because I am anti-travel or anti-foreigner ... I am not. But since we can't trust any other country to do a proper visa job, we can only trust US officials ... just ban entry entirely. After all, US foreign policy is to treat everyone, both foreign and domestic, as enemies of the State.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 02:02:29 PM
That's not "an appeal"...
An even greater reaction to the incompetence of SCOTUS for over 200 years ... constitutional amendment to eliminate it. Let state supreme courts decide.
Quote from: Baruch on February 28, 2018, 02:02:48 PM
By ports I meant ports of entry,
You said "foreign" ports of entry. When you screw up, admit it... OK?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 02:09:42 PM
You said "foreign" ports of entry. When you screw up, admit it... OK?
Yes ... it includes airports in foreign countries, didn't mean anything different. You sounded like you only were thinking of cruise ship ports.
Quote from: Baruch on February 28, 2018, 02:12:42 PM
Yes ... it includes airports in foreign countries, didn't mean anything different. You sounded like you only were thinking of cruise ship ports.
You are still eliding.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 02:33:23 PM
You are still eliding.
You and I are in agreement regarding international law. I wouldn't want Spain extending their laws to us, so why would they let us extend our laws to them? That is why there are visas in the first place. If you are Spanish, get permission of the Spanish government to travel to the US etc ... their government has to vett everyone. And we can politely say, thanks but no thanks.
ARGH! Baruch! What happened?! D:
Quote from: Munch on February 28, 2018, 09:09:35 PM
ARGH! Baruch! What happened?! D:
I have been waiting for the most opportune moment to reveal ... Machine Gun Winston, head of the British Gangland.
Quote from: Baruch on February 28, 2018, 08:20:42 PM
You and I are in agreement regarding international law. I wouldn't want Spain extending their laws to us, so why would they let us extend our laws to them? That is why there are visas in the first place. If you are Spanish, get permission of the Spanish government to travel to the US etc ... their government has to vett everyone. And we can politely say, thanks but no thanks.
What you been smoking lately? Most places, people can leave a country, but they need permission to enter another...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2018, 03:29:59 AM
What you been smoking lately? Most places, people can leave a country, but they need permission to enter another...
How do you leave a country, without permission to enter another? The days of free entry into Canada and Mexico are over. Schengen was a disaster in Europe.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2018, 05:51:40 AM
How do you leave a country, without permission to enter another? The days of free entry into Canada and Mexico are over. Schengen was a disaster in Europe.
Moving to many places just requires a plane or boat ticket or even just a car. I didn't say it cost nothing or that it was legal.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2018, 03:54:43 PM
Moving to many places just requires a plane or boat ticket or even just a car. I didn't say it cost nothing or that it was legal.
You crossed no international boundary ... in current conditions. Try moving to Canada ... anytime.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2018, 07:37:44 PM
You crossed no international boundary ... in current conditions. Try moving to Canada ... anytime.
Did it several times. Canadians like US dollars. Actually, who doesn't?
Quote from: Cavebear on March 08, 2018, 05:51:08 AM
Did it several times. Canadians like US dollars. Actually, who doesn't?
Any rational person would know ... Not Worth A Continental ... and Confederate Money. The US has no credit, just nukes.
Quote from: Baruch on March 08, 2018, 02:16:33 PM
Any rational person would know ... Not Worth A Continental ... and Confederate Money. The US has no credit, just nukes.
Just where did you confuse US dollars with nukes? And I haven't been passing around any pre-or rebel US bills, have you? There you go, off on a silly irrelevant tangent again... You can't stick to a topic.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 08, 2018, 03:27:09 PM
Just where did you confuse US dollars with nukes? And I haven't been passing around any pre-or rebel US bills, have you? There you go, off on a silly irrelevant tangent again... You can't stick to a topic.
Your money is worthless ... so is mine. But fools are born every minute.
Quote from: Baruch on March 08, 2018, 07:44:12 PM
Your money is worthless ... so is mine. But fools are born every minute.
Last I checked (5 minutes ago), the US dollar was the international currency of trade. The US Dollar is used in 67% of all trades and the Euro (in 2nd) is used in just below 20%. Must suggest EXPERTS find value in it.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Quote from: Cavebear on March 12, 2018, 06:24:26 AM
Last I checked (5 minutes ago), the US dollar was the international currency of trade. The US Dollar is used in 67% of all trades and the Euro (in 2nd) is used in just below 20%. Must suggest EXPERTS find value in it.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Give thanks to the 1% .. as soon as they shift from the dollar to the yuan, your assets (and mine) won't be worth much.
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2018, 06:54:50 AM
Give thanks to the 1% .. as soon as they shift from the dollar to the yuan, your assets (and mine) won't be worth much.
You shift to the Yuan for 10 years and I'll stick to the Dollar and you'll be a pauper...
Can we make a travel ban on old men with orange hair?
Quote from: fencerider on March 12, 2018, 10:33:02 AM
Can we make a travel ban on old men with orange hair?
LOL! And their family, too!