Nope, the "morals" of the candidate don't matter. Just ask the 71% of evangelicals who say the allegations of child molestation against Roy Moore don't matter to them (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-values-that-values-voters-care-about-most-are-policies-not-character-traits/).
Quoteevangelicals’ first priority is to elect politicians who will fight for them and advance their agenda on the issues they care about.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
They are voting for someone aligned with their values. Evangelical Christians are immoral to the core.
Quote from: Telesio on November 27, 2017, 01:30:24 PM
They are voting for someone aligned with their values. Evangelical Christians are immoral to the core.
Specifically ... Israel. Support Israel (no matter what) then you get the Evangelical vote. Trump's son-in-law is Jewish, and is best buds with Bibi. Has nothing to do with morality or candidate Moore. Meanwhile the US continues to support atrocities in Yemen, though they are winding down in Syria. Politics has nothing to do with morality, never has.
For me, immorality is off-putting. But virtue signaling doesn't sufficiently attract.
BTW - while I am Jewish, I don't support Israel. I support the US.
Quote from: Telesio on November 27, 2017, 01:30:24 PM
They are voting for someone aligned with their values. Evangelical Christians are immoral to the core.
I think it rather points up their tendency to believe things not only without evidence, but also
despite evidence.
Quote from: trdsf on November 27, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I think it rather points up their tendency to believe things not only without evidence, but also despite evidence.
Wouldn't that define most voters? It failed in ancient Athens ... ouzo, gay sex, Spartans etc.
Quote from: trdsf on November 27, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I think it rather points up their tendency to believe things not only without evidence, but also despite evidence.
This. For example, abortion. Let's say that one believes it's the same thing as infanticide. Naturally, they'd want to reduce abortion rates. The gameplan? Ban abortion. No sex ed. No condoms. In fact, let's make sex ed abstinence only. Shockingly, this gameplan has not been very successful. Do they change their strategy? No.
It's almost as if they're not actually interested in minimizing abortions, but rather to use the issue to energize the ingroup and bash outgroups.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 27, 2017, 06:45:22 PM
This. For example, abortion. Let's say that one believe it's the same thing as infanticide. Naturally, they'd want to reduce abortion rates. The gameplan? Ban abortion. Not sex ed. Not condoms. In fact, let's make sex ed abstinence only. Shockingly, this gameplan has not been very successful. Do they change their strategy? No.
It's almost as if they're not actually interested in minimizing abortions, but rather to use the issue to evangelize and condemn.
Law & Order goons, do like to condemn. They hate everyone. This is why there are over 200 million different laws in the US. Because clearly the law is working, so more of the same is reasonable ;-) As a father of a daughter, I can always control her pregnancies the traditional way ... by killing her boyfriends first ;-)
Quote from: trdsf on November 27, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I think it rather points up their tendency to believe things not only without evidence, but also despite evidence.
They hated Bill Clinton and loved the scandal. Roy Moore? No problemo. It's a SNL skit by itself.
Quote from: SGOS on November 28, 2017, 02:23:25 PM
They hated Bill Clinton and loved the scandal. Roy Moore? No problemo. It's a SNL skit by itself.
Only actual celibate monks and nuns are electable in the US now ;-)
More evidence that so-called 'values' voters don't actually have any values? Alleged serial molester Moore is back in the lead in Alabama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Alabama,_2017#Polling_4).
I've said it before, and I'll say it here, too: Dear South, please secede again. We won't stop you this time. Signed, Rational People.
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 30, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
But morality, legality, ethics etc are all the natural products of natural law. It is unavoidable, manifest teleology. Early in the so called Enlightenment, we even had "natural theology" as a meme, for a short while. French Revolution kind of spoiled that.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 30, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
Their morals are fine. It's the devil that seduces them into doing bad things, and you can't resist when Satan takes over your body.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 30, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
When you're seriously screwed up, the best camouflage is this family/christian stuff. A lot of people lower their guard when they should raise it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 30, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
Their moral values seem more like values demanded of others. It's a code handed down from a supreme being, and supposedly applies to all mankind. That's the principle involved, but it's applied rather selectively, not necessarily by the supreme being himself, but by his minions. For those who are pure evil, violating the code results in eternal death. This applies to men and women of unalterable decadence, like Bill Clinton and JFK, and about any other democrat you can think of. Those Democrats who do not violate the code outright, are thinking evil thoughts if they haven't gotten around to actually violating the codes yet.
Republicans respect the codes. Admittedly, they violate them too, but they feel sorry about it, even if they deny it. You can't blame a basically good person for denying an evil. He denies because he wants to be good and wants the approval of others. But Democrats always act out of wanton disregard. On the other hand, when a parishioner's wife fucks the preacher's son, she is happy to repent and confess in a public show of contrition, which is the Christian thing to do. So the next time she fucks the preacher's son, she does it on a clean slate, and her lust and wanton disregard never accumulates enough violations to rise to the level of pure evil.
Roy Moore is of the wanton disregard type, which is highly unusual for a Republican. He does not confess, and shows no sign of guilt or shame, but he is basically a good man who can eventually be saved by the prayer of others. He respects the 10 commandments enough to erect a monument to them in the public square, and like the rest of the codes, they apply to all mankind, except that reasonable exceptions can be made for him and the rest of the Christian guard that watches society and points out the true evil doers as is their duty.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 30, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
I have noticed that those who preach 'family values' or 'christian morality' don't have any values or morality. Or none they can or want to stick to.
Certainly any one of the people who've said they'd vote for Moore even if the allegations are proved beyond reasonable doubt are free to continue to call themselves christian if they like.
But they are not allowed to call themselves moral. If they were in fact moral, they should be demanding their party get behind another candidate, a write-in, and leave Moore hanging rather than say they're perfectly satisfied being represented in Washington by a child molester.
I'd like to go so far as to say that if they were in fact moral, they would never have voted for creeps and cretins like Moore and Asshole in the first place, but I won't. ;)
Quote from: trdsf on December 01, 2017, 12:55:50 PM
I'd like to go so far as to say that if they were in fact moral, they would never have voted for creeps and cretins like Moore and Asshole in the first place, but I won't. ;)
I'll go there. Morality doesn't actually interest the far-right. They gave that up years ago. What they desire now is court-packing and elected officials (from dog-catcher on up) who support their religion, racism, and other various bigotries.