https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/priests-told-to-stop-calling-bishops-spineless-nerds-and-sycophantic-half-wits-1.3284408
Also, the altarboys need to move their hips more and most of the Nuns are faking it.
But on a more serious note:
QuoteA major concern of priests was how those of their number who faced abuse allegations were being treated by church authorities.
Fr Tim Hazelwood, who was himself falsely accused, said “there was no consistency in how [ACCUSED]priests are treated.†Guidelines were not being applied correctly and he cited three recent cases as examples.
He also raised concern about funeral rights for priests out of ministry which can mean currently that there is no death notice placed in the papers and no concelebrated funeral Mass, he said.
The report from the ACP regional meetings stated that in this context, “priests statutory rights are being deniedâ€, he said. It was also “unjust that a priest is asked to stand down on the basis of an anonymous accusation.â€
A presentation was made on behalf of the ACP to solicitor Robert Dore for his “untold†work on behalf of priests, and on a pro bono basis.
Making the presentation, Fr Tony Flannery, said that “without Robert we would never have been able to establish there was such a thing as a false allegation.â€
Mr Gore received a standing ovation from all the priests present.
Snitches be lyin'.
Innocent until proven guilty or innocent if proven holy? :angelsmall:
The inventors of the Inquisition have turned on their own.
Religious leaders abusing children is nearly routine. Denying normal sexuality drives some clergy to abnormal actions.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:27:09 AM
Religious leaders abusing children is nearly routine. Denying normal sexuality drives some clergy to abnormal actions.
Correct. The Orthodox Churches require lower clergy to marry. This has never been controversial with rabbis, Protestant ministers or imams.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 02:07:49 AM
Correct. The Orthodox Churches require lower clergy to marry. This has never been controversial with rabbis, Protestant ministers or imams.
"Require"? That seems almost as bad. Did you mean "allow"?
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 05:41:50 AM
"Require"? That seems almost as bad. Did you mean "allow"?
No ... required. Holy discipline, though not as bad as being a monk. See the Orthodox have monks too, and to be a bishop or higher, you have to be a monk. No sex for you. But parish priests shouldn't be tempted. Not everyone is set to be celibate. See, in America, you are free to be whatever shit-hole you want to be. The American Dream.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 10:22:24 AM
No ... requited. Holy discipline, though not as bad as being a monk. See the Orthodox have monks too, and to be a bishop or higher, you have to be a monk. No sex for you. But parish priests shouldn't be tempted. Not everyone is set to be celibate. See, in America, you are free to be whatever shit-hole you want to be. The American Dream.
The US has always been a problem to religious groups. They can't get the usual grip on the government. And long may it stay that way...
They would if they could and that's one reason I maintain the fight.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:17:09 PM
The US has always been a problem to religious groups. They can't get the usual grip on the government. And long may it stay that way...
They would if they could and that's one reason I maintain the fight.
Agreed. Tyrants hate anarchy, are attracted to controlling it, like moths to flame.
BTW .. being a mystic may involve an internal theocracy, rather than an external one. I prefer self discipline over external discipline.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
Agreed. Tyrants hate anarchy, are attracted to controlling it, like moths to flame.
BTW .. being a mystic may involve an internal theocracy, rather than an external one. I prefer self discipline over external discipline.
Well, you sure went off-normal (for you) yesterday. I'm serious when I ask "are you OK?".
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:54:37 PM
Well, you sure went off-normal (for you) yesterday. I'm serious when I ask "are you OK?".
Sorry, it is hard to define "normal" for me. I like it that way. If I fit in anyone's stereotype ... then they are having their leg pulled ... either because I am pulling it, or because they are projecting. Vehemence comes and goes, as the world burns.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 12:57:31 PM
Sorry, it is hard to define "normal" for me. I like it that way. If I fit in anyone's stereotype ... then they are having their leg pulled ... either because I am pulling it, or because they are projecting. Vehemence comes and goes, as the world burns.
Well, I can tell you are hiding something, but that's your business.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 01:59:31 PM
Well, I can tell you are hiding something, but that's your business.
I keep my porn to myself of course.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
I keep my porn to myself of course.
DON'T think of Kim Possible...
oh you two funny guys, your like the siskel and ebert of these forums.
Quote from: Munch on December 09, 2017, 07:05:21 PM
oh you two funny guys, your like the siskel and ebert of these forums.
Cavebear and I for the last year, have generated most of the traffic here. Quantity, not necessarily quality. Y'all just like to watch old men fighting over a game of checkers.
A cover up by the church is very effective, at least until the cover up is exposed. But at that point, the cover up needs to become a clean up. You can't just keep covering up. It's been exposed. The cat is out of the bag. Guilt has been legally established, and everyone on the planet knows you are guilty. This scandal isn't going away unless you fix the problem. The Catholic Church could learn to clean rather than cover. They've done it before, although it usually takes hundreds of years to admit its errors, but for as much egg as it has on its face, you would think the Church would now whole heartedly embrace new strategies for dealing with its mistakes, especially when denial and inaction are failing so miserably. I guess old habits are hard to break. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, and my top favorite cliché, "Stop fucking around, already."
You underestimate the "memory hole". And things disappear much faster now. If something became an urban legend, it stayed around a long time (King Richard III killed his nephews). Now news is rated at minutes.
Quote from: Baruch on December 10, 2017, 12:48:12 AM
Cavebear and I for the last year, have generated most of the traffic here. Quantity, not necessarily quality. Y'all just like to watch old men fighting over a game of checkers.
Don't claim me as a partner in your postings! I think you are a raving ultra-religious ultra-authoritarian lunatic who sits in bed all day waiting for posts to reply to jesterly and idiotically just to get responses.
Debating you is like playing Whack-A-Mole. When I have, at times, slowly gotten you into reasonable discussions, you throw it all away with some series of slapstick verbal crap and I give up on you.
You actually don't want reasonable discussions. They re difficult and tke some effort. And you prefer the jokes and nonsense.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 12, 2017, 02:53:04 AM
Don't claim me as a partner in your postings! I think you are a raving ultra-religious ultra-authoritarian lunatic who sits in bed all day waiting for posts to reply to jesterly and idiotically just to get responses.
Debating you is like playing Whack-A-Mole. When I have, at times, slowly gotten you into reasonable discussions, you throw it all away with some series of slapstick verbal crap and I give up on you.
You actually don't want reasonable discussions. They re difficult and tke some effort. And you prefer the jokes and nonsense.
You are the best sparring partner I have now. I will continue to hit you (in a friendly way). Egg you on at times, even when I am out of eggs. And yes, I do post a lot, when there is a target rich environment. But as a skeptic of the group think that lives here ... not as a missionary. Radical group think is just knee-jerk Leftism.
And yes, isn't it incumbent on us to rage at the machine? Is apathy a virtue? Yes, my values are increasingly refined .. partly by the sparring here. I am more religious, not less, as a result. But not in a conventional or irrational way. And since when is democracy rational? Mob rule is chaos. And about authoritarianism, aren't you projecting? I have never proposed to become a moderator, so I can control the other posters ... nor will I.
Sometimes it seems more like Statler and Waldorf than Siskel and Ebert ;)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 14, 2017, 09:26:14 AM
Sometimes it seems more like Statler and Waldorf than Siskel and Ebert ;)
I am convinced. in spite of your color, that you are not Kermit ;-)) But if you speak French instead of Dutch, then you are still a frog ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2017, 02:10:02 PM
I am convinced. in spite of your color, that you are not Kermit ;-)) But if you speak French instead of Dutch, then you are still a frog ;-)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/T3o2jSO7mf7Ta/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Baruch on December 10, 2017, 12:48:12 AM
Cavebear and I for the last year, have generated most of the traffic here. Quantity, not necessarily quality. Y'all just like to watch old men fighting over a game of checkers.
I'd rather watch y'all fight with flame-throwers, but I doubt I'll get the opportunity. Ah, well, life's a bitch, huh?
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 14, 2017, 06:04:50 PM
I'd rather watch y'all fight with flame-throwers, but I doubt I'll get the opportunity. Ah, well, life's a bitch, huh?
You asked for it ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukw9oGSwLn4
Flame on!
Coming to a weenie roast near you ... got Smores?
Quote from: Baruch on December 12, 2017, 06:53:20 AM
You are the best sparring partner I have now. I will continue to hit you (in a friendly way). Egg you on at times, even when I am out of eggs. And yes, I do post a lot, when there is a target rich environment. But as a skeptic of the group think that lives here ... not as a missionary. Radical group think is just knee-jerk Leftism.
And yes, isn't it incumbent on us to rage at the machine? Is apathy a virtue? Yes, my values are increasingly refined .. partly by the sparring here. I am more religious, not less, as a result. But not in a conventional or irrational way. And since when is democracy rational? Mob rule is chaos. And about authoritarianism, aren't you projecting? I have never proposed to become a moderator, so I can control the other posters ... nor will I.
I do not come here to spar with a neo-nazi religious fanatic. I come here to discuss events with other atheists. YOU, on the other hand, seem to be here just to post jokes and games and if you weren't here, I would be happier to not get drawn into your nonsense.
The problem is, that when I still want to talk late at night, you are the only one posting, and in my boredom, you are the only game in town.
I keep trying to put you on my "Ignore" list, but it doesn't work.
If you disappeared now, I would consider it a board improvement.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 15, 2017, 03:04:19 AM
I do not come here to spar with a neo-nazi religious fanatic. I come here to discuss events with other atheists. YOU, on the other hand, seem to be here just to post jokes and games and if you weren't here, I would be happier to not get drawn into your nonsense.
The problem is, that when I still want to talk late at night, you are the only one posting, and in my boredom, you are the only game in town.
I keep trying to put you on my "Ignore" list, but it doesn't work.
If you disappeared now, I would consider it a board improvement.
And you are a kill-joy, but I still love you. You can discuss with anyone willing to talk to you. Their problem, not mine. One of our recent un-loved posters went off and built his own website ... so he could have less obnoxious conversations with people like himself. Problem is, everyone is unique, so ... crickets.
Quote from: Baruch on December 15, 2017, 04:58:46 AM
And you are a kill-joy, but I still love you. You can discuss with anyone willing to talk to you. Their problem, not mine. One of our recent un-loved posters went off and built his own website ... so he could have less obnoxious conversations with people like himself. Problem is, everyone is unique, so ... crickets.
Chirp.
One can prefer to have the company of atheists when visiting an atheist site without being a cricket.
Why don't you go visit a theist site? Or have you been banned from them?
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 03:17:35 PM
Chirp.
One can prefer to have the company of atheists when visiting an atheist site without being a cricket.
Why don't you go visit a theist site? Or have you been banned from them?
Never been banned anywhere. I cooperate with the moderators. If you want an exclusive club, be like the little boys who build a treehouse, and put up a partly legible sign that says "girls not allowed".
There is nobody like you. Or like me. Or like anyone else. Tribal fantasies are just desperate delusions attempting to escape loneliness.
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:26:34 PM
Never been banned anywhere. I cooperate with the moderators. If you want an exclusive club, be like the little boys who build a treehouse, and put up a partly legible sign that says "girls not allowed".
There is nobody like you. Or like me. Or like anyone else. Tribal fantasies are just desperate delusions attempting to escape loneliness.
Your claim to uniqueness conflicts with mine and everyone else's not like me.
Joke...
Quote from: Baruch on November 08, 2017, 07:22:04 PM
The inventors of the Inquisition have turned on their own.
That's the trouble - they were too turned on...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 26, 2017, 05:15:04 PM
That's the trouble - they were too turned on...
Once sadism kicks in ... the Republicans can't stop. Once the masochism kicks in ... the Democrats can't stop. I think the candidates should dress up in leather and whips.
I'd prefer they dress in nothing at all, but I doubt I'll get my way on that.
On second thought, that might not be such a good idea after all...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 26, 2017, 05:24:50 PM
I'd prefer they dress in nothing at all, but I doubt I'll get my way on that.
On second thought, that might not be such a good idea after all...
You want to see a fat naked jowly Republican guy? LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 12:45:37 PM
You want to see a fat naked jowly Republican guy? LOL!
There is something for everyone ... in politics ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 12:46:52 PM
There is something for everyone ... in politics ;-)
The problem is that the "something" is false for too many. Conspiracy theorists abound in the Republican party.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 12:56:46 PM
The problem is that the "something" is false for too many. Conspiracy theorists abound in the Republican party.
Democrats regard Republicans as ... demon spawn ... because they are so reality based ;-(
Both parties are certifiable.
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 12:58:20 PM
Democrats regard Republicans as ... demon spawn ... because they are so reality based ;-(
Both parties are certifiable.
Democrats are pathetic strategically and tactically, but factual. Republicans are excellent chess players but only out for shucking the masses for personal gain.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:19:26 PM
Democrats are pathetic strategically and tactically, but factual. Republicans are excellent chess players but only out for shucking the masses for personal gain.
Democrats are out for party gain ... they have no persona, being Borg.
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 01:20:54 PM
Democrats are out for party gain ... they have no persons, being Borg.
So the Republicans work for the 1% and Democrats for the downtrodden, and THEY are the Borg? Interesting world-view you have.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:32:52 PM
So the Republicans work for the 1% and Democrats for the downtrodden, and THEY are the Borg? Interesting world-view you have.
Yep, they work for downtrodden billionaires like Oprah ;-) Both parties use the poor, as slaves, they disagree on how to do the slavery.
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:24:06 PM
Yep, they work for downtrodden billionaires like Oprah ;-) Both parties use the poor, as slaves, they disagree on how to do the slavery.
The difference is that I want the poor to have a better life, and the Republicans want to squeeze every last dime out of them (and me too).
What I want is a large middle class, not a large lower and upper one.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 05:37:26 AM
The difference is that I want the poor to have a better life, and the Republicans want to squeeze every last dime out of them (and me too).
What I want is a large middle class, not a large lower and upper one.
That is easy ... prince ... give away all you have, and follow G-d. But to do that you have to trust G-d aka faith in G-d. And no, G-d is no wishing tree.
Misplaced identification ... let Oprah give away all her money, let every Democrat give away all their money ... then I won't think they are Republicans in disguise ... beware the Decepticons! No, instead lets just tax everyone to death (with special tax deductions just for Democrats natch).
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 06:45:10 AM
That is easy ... prince ... give away all you have, and follow G-d. But to do that you have to trust G-d aka faith in G-d. And no, G-d is no wishing tree.
Misplaced identification ... let Oprah give away all her money, let every Democrat give away all their money ... then I won't think they are Republicans in disguise ... beware the Decepticons! No, instead lets just tax everyone to death (with special tax deductions just for Democrats natch).
I do not require poverty in people to accept their understanding of life and the universe. Indeed, most current expansion of knowledge requires money.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 06:51:27 AM
I do not require poverty in people to accept their understanding of life and the universe. Indeed, most current expansion of knowledge requires money.
Don't you don't or anyone here, say they love the poor. America loves to fuck the poor ... that is how we love each other.
Well, I am taking care of a retired indigent Native American ... supplying him with extra pin money he needs. I also take care of my Ex, even though she is on her second divorce. And I take care of my daughter, who is handicapped. All three of those people are poor. And I suspect they are getting every penny ... so I have feels for the poor poor medical care and elder care system that costs $6000 per month. They might not be getting much, other than my corpse. Though I support people working in medical care and elder care ... but at least they have jobs.
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 06:57:44 AM
Don't you don't or anyone here, say they love the poor. America loves to fuck the poor ... that is how we love each other.
Well, I am taking care of a retired indigent Native American ... supplying him with extra pin money he needs. I also take care of my Ex, even though she is on her second divorce. And I take care of my daughter, who is handicapped. All three of those people are poor. And I suspect they are getting every penny ... so I have feels for the poor poor medical care and elder care system that costs $6000 per month. They might not be getting much, other than my corpse. Though I support people working in medical care and elder care ... but at least they have jobs.
I am not so perfect that I don't pity the poor. But I was one myself. And even then only by US standards. I had a roof over my head and heat even when I had to share it with La Cucaracha... My desire is to help others get better lives.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:02:17 AM
I am not so perfect that I don't pity the poor. But I was one myself. And even then only by US standards. I had a roof over my head and heat even when I had to share it with La Cucaracha... My desire is to help others get better lives.
Teach a man to fish ... how Republican of you. That is what Democrats are today, bourgeois.
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:23:13 AM
Teach a man to fish ... how Republican of you. That is what Democrats are today, bourgeois.
No, the Republicans will either sell you a fish or sell you a gimmick to catch them. And maybe Democrats will give you a fish. *I* will teach you how to fish.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:59:29 AM
No, the Republicans will either sell you a fish or sell you a gimmick to catch them. And maybe Democrats will give you a fish. *I* will teach you how to fish.
So, an Independent, like me ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 12:40:09 PM
So, an Independent, like me ;-)
Depends, would you like to learn how to fish? I have some experience at that.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 04:09:22 AM
Depends, would you like to learn how to fish? I have some experience at that.
In what that usually contextualizes to ... a government employee (or contractor) giving advice on how to make the free market grow ... is laughable.
If you mean actual fishing, then no.
Quote from: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 06:49:14 AM
In what that usually contextualizes to ... a government employee (or contractor) giving advice on how to make the free market grow ... is laughable.
If you mean actual fishing, then no.
I meant actual fishing. You toss a small lure out on the top of the water and let it sit a few minutes. Then give it a twitch to make it seem like something that doesn't want to be there. Crippled minnow, bug on the water, doesn't really much matter. Another twitch, A LUNGE from below! If you are not surprised too much, you flip your fishing rod up and catch a predator fish.
Or not.
I laugh watching some guys in boats splashing the water with big lures as fast as they can. Like speed equals skill. Sure they catch some fish. But I get more teasing them and knowing when to expect a strike.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 05:12:53 AM
I meant actual fishing. You toss a small lure out on the top of the water and let it sit a few minutes. Then give it a twitch to make it seem like something that doesn't want to be there. Crippled minnow, bug on the water, doesn't really much matter. Another twitch, A LUNGE from below! If you are not surprised too much, you flip your fishing rod up and catch a predator fish.
Or not.
I laugh watching some guys in boats splashing the water with big lures as fast as they can. Like speed equals skill. Sure they catch some fish. But I get more teasing them and knowing when to expect a strike.
Same as catching predator women ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 05:15:31 AM
Same as catching predator women ;-)
Wouldn't know thing about that. Don't play those games. Ask my children.
I played a video game called Monster Bass that was pretty good. I've since then wanted to attach a tiny video camera to a real fishing line to watch the fish take the bait or lure. I haven't been able to do it yet, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TsRz1HdZMQ
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 13, 2018, 01:31:41 PM
I played a video game called Monster Bass that was pretty good. I've since then wanted to attach a tiny video camera to a real fishing line to watch the fish take the bait or lure. I haven't been able to do it yet, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TsRz1HdZMQ
I once had the opportunity to climp up on a large branch that hung over a spot were we wnt fishihg for bass. I could see the fish in the water. It was AMAZING how they ignored almost every. Noisy splashy lures usually went right past their noses. But a small pop fly sitting out there for a while, the twitched slightly always got their attention. Still almost no strikes (we weren't all that good at twitchihg the bugs), but they got a lot more attention that most of the other stuff.
My daughter and I played Oregon Trail when she was little. She always enjoyed the fishing part. But the hunting part not so much. She would fire without taking here time ... and get hit with a ricochet!
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 07:32:08 PM
My daughter and I played Oregon Trail when she was little. She always enjoyed the fishing part. But the hunting part not so much. She would fire without taking here time ... and get hit with a ricochet!
Is that a game, or a real life experience?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2018, 03:19:05 AM
Is that a game, or a real life experience?
I am not that old. I wouldn't have let a 7 year old handle a hunting rifle!
Quote from: Baruch on February 18, 2018, 08:18:32 PM
I am not that old. I wouldn't have let a 7 year old handle a hunting rifle!
But in a game you will. Interesting...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 02:53:44 AM
But in a game you will. Interesting...
In my favorite game, I am an Classical civilization predator. Currently Carthage is conquering the East, after having finished off Rome.
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 06:33:40 AM
In my favorite game, I am an Classical civilization predator. Currently Carthage is conquering the East, after having finished off Rome.
What game are you discussing? If any Civ game, I'm in.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 08:40:22 AM
What game are you discussing? If any Civ game, I'm in.
Note in game section. Older game, with building and war.
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 07:29:55 PM
Note in game section. Older game, with building and war.
I settled on Civ 5. I may be gone for a while.