https://splinternews.com/widow-of-fallen-solider-broke-down-into-tears-after-tru-1819637707?rev=1508299698077&utm_campaign=socialflow_fusion_facebook&utm_source=fusion_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Is it still too early to judge him? Just curious.
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 01:20:58 AM
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
We are talking about the Trump who said that McCain was a "loser" because he was captured, right?
"McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment occurred on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over Hanoi in North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile.[34][35] McCain fractured both arms and a leg when he ejected from the aircraft,[36] and nearly drowned after he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake.[34] Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him.[34] McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Há»a Lò Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[35]
Although McCain was seriously wounded and injured, his captors refused to treat him. They beat and interrogated him to get information, and he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a high-ranking admiral.[37] His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.[38][39]
McCain spent six weeks in the hospital, where he received marginal care.[34] He had lost 50 pounds (23 kg), was in a chest cast, and his gray hair had turned as white as snow.[34] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi.[40] In December 1967, McCain was placed in a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live more than a week.[41] In March 1968, McCain was placed into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[42]
Beginning in August 1968, McCain was subjected to a program of severe torture.[45] He was bound and beaten every two hours; this punishment occurred at the same time that he was suffering from dysentery.[34][45] Further injuries led McCain to attempt suicide, which was stopped by guards.[34] Eventually, McCain made an anti-U.S. propaganda "confession".[34] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[46][47] Many U.S. POWs were tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements;[48] virtually all of them eventually yielded something to their captors.[49] McCain received two to three beatings weekly because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[50]
McCain refused to meet various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[51] From late 1969, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[52] while McCain continued actively to resist the camp authorities.[53] McCain and other prisoners cheered the U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, viewing it as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.[47][54]
McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years until his release on March 14, 1973.[55] His wartime injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[56]?
From Wikipedia, hence the footnotes....
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 01:20:58 AM
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
You're right, telling the pregnant, grieving widow of a soldier who died in combat, "Meh, he knew what he was getting into." isn't bad.
I'm sure you're just the most charming person that everyone loves.
@Cavebear: Just this week he said that previous president's never called widows to offer their condolences, then back-tracked on that to say they probably never did, he didn't know, after contacting General Kelly who's son had just died. And of course there is his harassment of the Khan family, who's son received a Medal of Honor posthumously, and used that as an opportunity to attack Muslims.
But remember; kneeling to the flag (a protest that was recommended by a Green Beret to Kap) is disrespectful to the troops, but voting a man like this into office isn't.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
You're right, telling the pregnant, grieving widow of a soldier who died in combat, "Meh, he knew what he was getting into." isn't bad.
I'm sure you're just the most charming person that everyone loves.
He did know, and she did know, and more honor to them both. And the soldier respect posthumously and the spouse and children deserve our support after.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 01:43:12 AM
He did know, and she did know, and more honor to them both. And the soldier respect posthumously and the spouse and children deserve our support after.
Oh for sure he knew... but that's just not what you fucking grieving widow. That's just kicking someone in the teeth while their down. A random asshole on the internet doing it? Okay, it's just means your a terrible human being. But the fucking president of the United States doing that? Honestly.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 01:45:04 AM
Oh for sure he knew... but that's just not what you fucking grieving widow. That's just kicking someone in the teeth while their down. A random asshole on the internet doing it? Okay, it's just means your a terrible human being. But the fucking president of the United States doing that? Honestly.
What do you want to bet that eventually we will learn that whatever letters of support Trump sent to grieving military families were autopenned?
As a liberal, I'm getting tired of liberal media turning in to what conservative media was for the last 4 years. Actually it already has turned in to it, pre-trump, which is a reason that I can bet is a huge part of why he is in office
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 18, 2017, 02:16:29 AM
As a liberal, I'm getting tired of liberal media turning in to what conservative media was for the last 4 years. Actually it already has turned in to it, pre-trump, which is a reason that I can bet is a huge part of why he is in office
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Yeah, because being a dick to the military and their family is more-or-less the same of the Conservative medias outrage over... Obama wore a tan suit (eghads!), went golfing (the horror!), is Obama REALLY America (totally not racist though!) and every other non-issue they brought up. Particularly when we are literally having giant demonstrations about people "desprespecting" the military by excising their right to free speech, and the president is bragging about how he is the only president to send letters to troop's families (until he was called on it, to which he then said, 'well, I don't know if that's true, but it's what I have been told so it might be!').
Yup. Basically the same thing...
:roll:
(Also, conservatives have called him on this as well. But sure, let's pretend this is just the big-bad left out to get poor wittle Trump...)
It's bad, yes, but it's fucking trivial... Just like how they talked about Obama.
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And oh yeah, I meant 8 years they talked like this about Obama. This is barely even news
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 18, 2017, 02:41:16 AM
And oh yeah, I meant 8 years they talked like this about Obama. This is barely even news
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I agree it shouldn't be news, but the problem is that there are still huge hold outs of people who don't think he is an absolutely horrible human being.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 03:23:49 AM
I agree it shouldn't be news, but the problem is that there are still huge hold outs of people who don't think he is an absolutely horrible human being.
And by "he" you mean...?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 18, 2017, 02:16:29 AM
As a liberal, I'm getting tired of liberal media turning in to what conservative media was for the last 4 years. Actually it already has turned in to it, pre-trump, which is a reason that I can bet is a huge part of why he is in office
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Both are shills for the CIA. The MO has to be the same. See Goebbels around? He must still be alive, one of the Nazis America took home after WW II.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 03:23:49 AM
I agree it shouldn't be news, but the problem is that there are still huge hold outs of people who don't think he is an absolutely horrible human being.
We are all horrible human beings. You wouldn't know, unless you are one too. Look in the mirror. Then be chastised.
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:26:57 AM
We are all horrible human beings. You wouldn't know, unless you are one too. Look in the mirror. Then be chastised.
I looked in the mirror as you requested. I decided, logically, that I was a rather fine person and had little to be ashamed of as an adult.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 01:20:58 AM
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
Jack ass.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 07:51:08 AM
I looked in the mirror as you requested. I decided, logically, that I was a rather fine person and had little to be ashamed of as an adult.
Was reminding virtue signally Shiranu. In your case, like a woman with EE boobs, you ego arrives long before the rest of you ;-0
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 18, 2017, 02:41:16 AM
And oh yeah, I meant 8 years they talked like this about Obama. This is barely even news
It likely wouldn't have been news if Trump hadn't first declared that Obama didn't properly perform his job informing/comforting bereaved military families. Now the accusation is boomeranging right back to him. The media didn't create this gaffe.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 01:20:58 AM
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 18, 2017, 07:35:28 PM
It likely wouldn't have been news if Trump hadn't first declared that Obama didn't properly perform his job informing/comforting bereaved military families. Now the accusation is boomeranging right back to him. The media didn't create this gaffe.
Are you saying that Trump is a transvestite? Giuliani is one. They need all the gaffs they can get ;-))
Heres the thing with Trump.
At this stage, seeing so many posts on forums each day of the next ridiculous, outlandished, crude, obnoxious, backwards and deceitful things he's done, I just have to wonder now why is anyone posting this stuff and still acting surprised by any of it?
He's a clown, a Saturday morning cartoon villain, if you give attention to his bs your just giving him the attention he wants, and honestly whatever mess he causes will be dealt with when the next guy or girl comes along.
Quote from: Munch on October 18, 2017, 07:46:58 PMHe's a clown, a Saturday morning cartoon villain, if you give attention to his bs your just giving him the attention he wants, and honestly whatever mess he causes will be dealt with when the next guy or girl comes along.
So I hope. But this clown still has a surprisingly large following. Granted, they're complete idiots, but we have lots of complete idiots here. I worry that we won't get back on track when the Orange Blunder is ushered from office - that this is the new normal for us.
As I've said before, america's survived Nixon, two Bush's and Ulysses S. Grant, I think it'll be fine.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
You're right, telling the pregnant, grieving widow of a soldier who died in combat, "Meh, he knew what he was getting into." isn't bad.
Telling her, "He knew what he signed up for, but when it happens it hurts anyways" is an objectively non-offensive thing to say. It's not bad in any way.
But when one wants to hate someone, one will perceive normal behavior from them to be evil.
If the same thing was said by anyone who you weren't already predisposed to hate, you wouldn't care - at most you would think, "it could be worded slightly better but whatever" and you fucking know it. You could make the argument that the president should be above creating syntax like a common man would, but if the worst thing the president does is use the same words that a laymen would've, then it's not a fucking problem - at all.
Pussy.
QuoteHe's a clown, a Saturday morning cartoon villain, if you give attention to his bs your just giving him the attention he wants, and honestly whatever mess he causes will be dealt with when the next guy or girl comes along.
Except more and more countries are saying, "Yeah, honestly, if the Americans voted this guy in... we don't think we can trust the next president either. They have ruined their reputation."
I'm flattered you think we are still trust-worthy, but unfortunately the people in power are increasingly saying, "If one president thinks he has so much power, why won't the next?".
QuoteTelling her, "He knew what he signed up for, but when it happens it hurts anyways" is an objectively non-offensive thing to say. It's not bad in any way.
Obviously. That's why she was all smiles and happ... oh, right, the actual victim was upset about it. But you know what, you know better than the people actually affected, don't you?
QuoteBut when one wants to hate someone, one will perceive normal behavior from them to be evil.
Well, when both sides of the isle hate you for it... then you have really fucked up.
QuoteIf the same thing was said by anyone who you weren't already predisposed to hate, you wouldn't care...
Wrong again, Bob. In a regular presidency, this would be breaking news that would be talked about for weeks, be it a Republican or a Democrat. This president is so batshit insane and so devoid of any empathy this is buried in the rest of the shit and forgotten within a week.
This is NOT normal behaviour, and acting like it is only encourages it. And we should not pretend for a second that this is normal, and end up making it normal.
QuotePussy.
Grow up. You're like an edge-lord 16 year old, "Hurrr, I just learned what cynicism is! Fuck the world!". It's trite af, mate.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 08:22:48 PM
Well, when both sides of the isle hate you for it... then you have really fucked up.
I think your likely find the rest of the world, that has common sense, can read about the political culture war going on in america right now and understands the country is divided on the for and against crowd, it doesn't look at america and think the entire country voted for one bad president together, anymore then when we had Tony Blaire over here.
Your also find other countries would be pissed regardless whoever won it, because america has a democracy and other countries don't have that luxury.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 01:20:58 AM
wah wah.
He didn't say anything bad. Don't care.
Of course you don't care. You back trump. How could you care???? trump does not care. Except for HIM. You seem to be just like that. No ethics, no morals, no code of conduct, no backbone, no regard for anything but him and his. Yeah, I bet you are exactly like that.
Quote from: Munch on October 18, 2017, 08:12:08 PM
As I've said before, america's survived Nixon, two Bush's and Ulysses S. Grant, I think it'll be fine.
Perhaps. Sometimes, you recover from hardship. Sometimes, you don't. Who can know until it's years behind us?
Certainly, Americans living through the civil war didn't know how things would shake out at the time. Nor the Vietnam protestors. Nor us, right now.
Trump unites atheists and theists, in a manner of speaking. Theists exclaim "god is dead" and atheists exclaim "devil is alive".
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 08:22:48 PM
This is NOT normal behaviour, and acting like it is only encourages it. And we should not pretend for a second that this is normal, and end up making it normal.
It is. You're over-reacting. Boohoo.
By the way, there's still 0 proof he even worded it that way. Which is almost irrelevant, though, because what he's being accused of isn't even remotely bad.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 18, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
Perhaps. Sometimes, you recover from hardship. Sometimes, you don't. Who can know until it's years behind us?
Certainly, Americans living through the civil war didn't know how things would shake out at the time. Nor the Vietnam protestors. Nor us, right now.
I missed that quote, but I would also like to contend that the United States has still yet to recover from the civil war, and that was a hundred umph years ago.
To me given that, if the civil war is the bar we are approaching, then that is all the more reason to be concerned. When people are saying we haven't been this divided since Vietnam or saying we survived the civil war... that is not good. That is not even remotely good. The go all Goodwin, that's like saying Germany survived Ww1 and 2... I mean...sure?... but I don't think the Germans are better off for doing so, and those things still effect Germany today.
Or to put it another way... yes, Scotland and Ireland have survived British imperialism... that shouldn't be the bar or standard we aim for, though.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 10:37:48 PM
It is. You're over-reacting. Boohoo.
No, you're just a douchebag. Like idol, like idoliser.
One last thing... yes, WE survived Nixon, Reagan, Bush. You know who didn't? Millions of innocent Iraqis. Victims of ISIS violence created from the war on terror power vacuum. The millions of people in sweat shops, in poverty, from Regan era trade agreements. The millions who have died or suffered from our terrible republican healthcare corruption.
If that is what we are at... you're trying to comfort me with that? Really now?
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 10:42:09 PMI missed that quote, but I would also like to contend that the United States has still yet to recover from the civil war, and that was a hundred umph years ago.
To me given that, if the civil war is the bar we are approaching, then that is all the more reason to be concerned. When people are saying we haven't been this divided since Vietnam or saying we survived the civil war... that is not good. That is not even remotely good. The go all Goodwin, that's like saying Germany survived Ww1 and 2... I mean...sure?... but I don't think the Germans are better off for doing so, and those things still effect Germany today.
Or to put it another way... yes, Scotland and Ireland have survived British imperialism... that shouldn't be the bar or standard we aim for, though.
That's true. Just because we recover (sort of) doesn't mean this stuff doesn't have lasting repercussions. All I know is I read the politics section and this is what I see: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCxDMPNpmhs/
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 18, 2017, 07:35:28 PM
It likely wouldn't have been news if Trump hadn't first declared that Obama didn't properly perform his job informing/comforting bereaved military families. Now the accusation is boomeranging right back to him. The media didn't create this gaffe.
As it is with every presidency. What else is new?
new guy comes in and people blame the old guy for shit and the people that didn't vote for the current guy gets blamed for shit too. And the circle continues....
Quotenew guy comes in and people blame the old guy for shit and the people that didn't vote for the current guy gets blamed for shit too. And the circle continues....
What?
People aren't blaming the old guy (Obama), only Trump was. Literally no one supported him on that, and then a week later this happens and blows up in his face. This has nothing to do with anyone but Trump digging himself a hole, and then digging it a little bit deeper.
I know you aren't a Trump fan, so I'm trying not to word this like I would towards Gilg... but just... honestly?
Ask yourself from 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or your parents... would the president of the United States, in normal times, being callus towards a KiA soldier's pregnant widow, been a non-issue, regardless of what party he was from? Would it be a non-issue when he has a history of insulting soldier's grieving families and ridiculing a PoW for being... a PoW?
I'm sorry, but this shit
is not normal. We cannot let this shit be "normal".
I'm sorry, but this is just... there is no historical precedence for this. This is a guy continuing to dig a hole deeper and deeper, and people turning around and either jumping straight in it with him because he can do no wrong, or saying that the hole isn't even a big deal. Sure, when the hole was a few inches deep, I can grant you that... but we are about 20 kilometers past that now, and people still are saying, "Meh, just ignore it.".
Literally no one blamed Obama for things? You have a sheltered circle of people to talk politics with, buddy. What did you do? Pull a jmpty and block everyone on facebook that even slightly isn't in agreement with you 100%?
No one is letting this be normal, but you are overreacting, as are many people.
Don't mistake things like this got "ignoring it" for realizing there is better things to do with my time and life, than bitch and moan like conservatives did for 8 years... Although liberals are even worse than conservatives in that sense, at this point. And conservatives are still really bad.
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And this presidency really isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. People are over reacting over trivial shit like this constantly and that's really all it is. Nothing really has happened that has been good, but at the same time, nothing really has happened that is bad either.
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I'm ready for the "holier than thou / I'm offended by what is going on and anyone that isn't offended is wrong" response.
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 02:04:21 AM
And this presidency really isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. People are over reacting over trivial shit like this constantly and that's really all it is. Nothing really has happened that has been good, but at the same time, nothing really has happened that is bad either.
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Is there a way I can post you a back pat? People's overreaction to trump is both laughable and irritating to keep seeing popping up on forums everyday more then what stupid shit trump is doing himself
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 02:10:11 AM
I'm ready for the "holier than thou / I'm offended by what is going on and anyone that isn't offended is wrong" response.
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People soon forget. They voted for Bill Clinton or not .. and they conclude he is an asshole or a genius. Repeat with George W Bush. Repeat with Barak Obama. Repeat with Donald Trump ... but like Avis, The Donald tries harder ;-( And there is only one politician in the US, maybe only one person ... the jerk de jure ... The POTUS.
Quote from: Munch on October 19, 2017, 03:41:09 AM
Is there a way I can post you a back pat? People's overreaction to trump is both laughable and irritating to keep seeing popping up on forums everyday more then what stupid shit trump is doing himself
Yes, and Brits never bitch about their PM ;-) They put all their focus on the POTUS? Politics in English is so much poo tossing ... in Ireland, Canada, Australia and NZ too. And since English is still the most popular second language ... all the rest of the world gets to watch us ;-p
it is a bit like sports fandom ... except it is taken too seriously. Usually with sports people aren't all like ... "We are all going to die tomorrow". Well maybe we will. History is a bitch.
Quote from: Baruch on October 19, 2017, 03:48:22 AM
Yes, and Brits never bitch about their PM ;-) They put all their focus on the POTUS? Politics in English is so much poo tossing ... in Ireland, Canada, Australia and NZ too. And since English is still the most popular second language ... all the rest of the world gets to watch us ;-p
it is a bit like sports fandom ... except it is taken too seriously. Usually with sports people aren't all like ... "We are all going to die tomorrow". Well maybe we will. History is a bitch.
Not really, and you know why? Because even from the UK people are more likely to complain about something trump said then their own political elected leader. Infact it's more likely a newspaper will talk about what stupid thing trump did over the weekend then what evil shit kim jong un did lately. Because trump is a clown, and clowns entertain people.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 02:01:54 AM
Literally no one blamed Obama for things? You have a sheltered circle of people to talk politics with, buddy. What did you do? Pull a jmpty and block everyone on facebook that even slightly isn't in agreement with you 100%?
No one is letting this be normal, but you are overreacting, as are many people.
Don't mistake things like this got "ignoring it" for realizing there is better things to do with my time and life, than bitch and moan like conservatives did for 8 years... Although liberals are even worse than conservatives in that sense, at this point. And conservatives are still really bad.
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Except what you are talking about there is literally irrelevant to what happened here, and no one is asking you to do anything, bitch, moan, cry, whatever. You are doing that entirely of your own free will right now; I'm not holding a gun to your head saying, "Read this thread, respond to it and cry over how terrible trump is!"
And sure, keep telling yourself this presidency isn't terrible. If you think this shit storm isn't bad, I'm really concerned how far people have to be hurt before you will even bat an eye.
No one is asking you to, and yet you still are.
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And let's be clear here. I hate Trump as our president, but more than half the shit that is whined about on liberal media isn't even close to newsworthy
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Yeah, as much as I don't like Trump, I am not sure this isn't one of those times where good intention just came out wrong. I wonder if the guy has any empathy at all. "He knew what he was getting into" , could easily be seen as a compliment. "He knew what he was getting into but still went".. is that not what we expect our "hero's" to do?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
No one is asking you to, and yet you still are.
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No one is asking me to force you to read these threads, and yet I am still forcing you to read them?
Alrighty then. I'm not sure how I feel about having that type of power over you. If you want it back, or know someone else who wants it, hit me up because I'de be glad to give it to someone else.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 19, 2017, 12:26:06 PM
No one is asking me to force you to read these threads, and yet I am still forcing you to read them?
Alrighty then. I'm not sure how I feel about having that type of power over you. If you want it back, or know someone else who wants it, hit me up because I'de be glad to give it to someone else.
Uhhh what? I never said you forced me to do anything. I'm just bored and felt like discussing the topic. Sorry not everyone is not completely in agreement with you
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 02:01:54 AM
Literally no one blamed Obama for things? You have a sheltered circle of people to talk politics with, buddy. What did you do? Pull a jmpty and block everyone on facebook that even slightly isn't in agreement with you 100%?
Shir is correct in saying that Trump started it and it blew up in his face. If you want to blame someone for making this a big media circus, Trump's your guy.
And honestly, it should be a story. Informing military families of military deaths is a pretty important part of being Commander in Chief. A Prez who flubs as badly as Trump allegedly did deserves all the scorn he gets.
And yeah, I agree that there are a lot of trivial news stories circulating about the guy - half the news stories out there are seemingly all about Trump - but I don't consider this one to be nearly as trivial as say Obama's mustardgate or Obama's "apology tour" or Obama's muslim gang sign. Could you imagine the furor if Obama was saddled with the scandals that Trump's been involved in so far? Obama sneezes wrong and we never hear the end of it, but Trump royally screws up or pursues horrid policies, and we're supposed to just let it go.
I know it gets annoying to hear negative political news and people fussing about said news all the time, but expressing disapproval about this stuff is what we have to do to insure that we get better leadership next time. If we downplay or ignore it, it continues.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 12:29:06 PM
Uhhh what? I never said you forced me to do anything. I'm just bored and felt like discussing the topic. Sorry not everyone is not completely in agreement with you
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You literally just said, in a quote about me not forcing you to do anything, that I am doing something.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 11:42:00 AM
And let's be clear here. I hate Trump as our president, but more than half the shit that is whined about on liberal media isn't even close to newsworthy
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Based on your biases.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2017, 01:24:19 PM
Shir is correct in saying that Trump started it and it blew up in his face. If you want to blame someone for making this a big media circus, Trump's your guy.
And honestly, it should be a story. Informing military families of military deaths is a pretty important part of being Commander in Chief. A Prez who flubs as badly as Trump allegedly did deserves all the scorn he gets.
And yeah, I agree that there are a lot of trivial news stories circulating about the guy - half the news stories out there are seemingly all about Trump - but I don't consider this one to be nearly as trivial as say Obama's mustardgate or Obama's "apology tour" or Obama's muslim gang sign. Could you imagine the furor if Obama was saddled with the scandals that Trump's been involved in so far? Obama sneezes wrong and we never hear the end of it, but Trump royally screws up or pursues horrid policies, and we're supposed to just let it go.
I know it gets annoying to hear negative political news and people fussing about said news all the time, but expressing disapproval about this stuff is what we have to do to insure that we get better leadership next time. If we downplay or ignore it, it continues.
Yes. Shir is correct, but only partially. Trump and the media work hand in hand. He did not start this on his own. The media is not stupid, but it is predictable. It just wants to start drama.
The interesting thing about Trump is he isn't malicious. He's incompetent. Liberal media will go out of their way to spin things like Trump is horrible and evil, when in reality he just doesn't know what he's doing. But hey, articles have to make headlines... Aka money.
Trump has proven time and time again that he is incapable of using his words right. And when he says something dumb, the media spins it I'm the way that he's only capable of being a prick, just like when Obama did something or couldn't accomplish something constructive media blamed him for being incompetent. I don't think Trump is fit for the job... not even close, but this is predictable by the media's standards.
Remember. The media made Trump president in the first place. Especially liberal media. It made Trump president even more than conservative media could ever hope for.
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Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2017, 02:47:42 PM
Based on your biases.
Nice zinger. I'd like to hear what you're assuming my biases are.
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 11:42:00 AM
And let's be clear here. I hate Trump as our president, but more than half the shit that is whined about on liberal media isn't even close to newsworthy
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I, too hate Trump as our president--or even as a person who is not worth much as a human. And I'm tired of all the shit that has grown up about him. And I'm tired of all the whining. But I don't see or hear the whining as coming from the 'liberal media'. (Whatever and whoever that is) Trump has given life to and a voice to the Alt-Right. Hate that--alt-right--, let's name it what it is, white nationalism. Trump supports it with his appointments. And he has not came out as being against it, but has tacitly supported it. He has divided this country in ways I have not seen in my lifetime. And he does nothing to repair those rifts; he accelerates them. He is a loose canon and is scary on many fronts. I am more than a little frightened by him and his actions and lack of actions.
Pickled, he has me deeply worried for this nation.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2017, 04:28:42 PM
I, too hate Trump as our president--or even as a person who is not worth much as a human. And I'm tired of all the shit that has grown up about him. And I'm tired of all the whining. But I don't see or hear the whining as coming from the 'liberal media'. (Whatever and whoever that is) Trump has given life to and a voice to the Alt-Right. Hate that--alt-right--, let's name it what it is, white nationalism. Trump supports it with his appointments. And he has not came out as being against it, but has tacitly supported it. He has divided this country in ways I have not seen in my lifetime. And he does nothing to repair those rifts; he accelerates them. He is a loose canon and is scary on many fronts. I am more than a little frightened by him and his actions and lack of actions.
Pickled, he has me deeply worried for this nation.
I thought this was about what he said to the relative of a fallen soldier.
I fear for the country because of the voice he gave to nazis, but this is a different topic.
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Nice zinger. I'd like to hear what you're assuming my biases are.
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Seems like they're about 50% of reality.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 19, 2017, 12:26:06 PM
No one is asking me to force you to read these threads, and yet I am still forcing you to read them?
PE is an admin and needs to read all posts to make sure we're staying within the rules.
Quote from: Munch on October 19, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
PE is an admin and needs to read all posts to make sure we're staying within the rules.
Fair play.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:26:25 PM
Yes. Shir is correct, but only partially. Trump and the media work hand in hand. He did not start this on his own. The media is not stupid, but it is predictable. It just wants to start drama.
The media loves covering drama. And Trump loves starting it. If it weren't for Trump periodically threatening the media in retaliation for unfavorable coverage, I would call it a mutualistic relationship.
QuoteThe interesting thing about Trump is he isn't malicious. He's incompetent. Liberal media will go out of their way to spin things like Trump is horrible and evil, when in reality he just doesn't know what he's doing.
I dunno about that. Sure, he's not the next Hitler, but there's definitely a lot about his policies that could be attributed to malice against
specific segments of the population.
But let's say you're right and everything he's done wrong is only due to incompetence. For quite a few issues, like environmental regulations or net neutrality, is there really a functional difference between non-malicious harm and malicious harm? The outcome is exactly the same either way.
QuoteTrump has proven time and time again that he is incapable of using his words right. And when he says something dumb, the media spins it I'm the way that he's only capable of being a prick, just like when Obama did something or couldn't accomplish something constructive media blamed him for being incompetent. I don't think Trump is fit for the job... not even close, but this is predictable by the media's standards.
Well, there was that thing with McCain. "He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured." It's very difficult to explain that as anything other than being a prick. I simply figured that given his track record, him acting like a prick again is somewhat plausible.
QuoteRemember. The media made Trump president in the first place. Especially liberal media. It made Trump president even more than conservative media could ever hope for.
Oh, I know (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/301147-cnn-president-airing-so-many-full-trump-rallies-was-a). They covered the hell out of the guy, back before he was even a frontrunner in the primary. He played the media like a fiddle then and arguably still has a great deal of control over what gets covered now. That's why this narrative of the media taking this non-story and puffing it up until it's big news isn't terribly plausible. The much simpler explanation is that they were drawn to drama already in progress.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
I thought this was about what he said to the relative of a fallen soldier.
I fear for the country because of the voice he gave to nazis, but this is a different topic.
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Yeah, it is. But it is difficult to not see it as simply another example of him not being able to demonstrate he has even the basic human emotions--and he just can't feel empathy for anybody but himself. Nobody seems to take him at his spoken words. Everybody wants to put words (that he did not speak) into his mouth. Just examine what he says and how he says it. He is a broken man.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2017, 04:28:42 PM
And he has not came out as being against it, but has tacitly supported it.
Well, no; no, he hasn't. But you already lost this debate in another thread. Yet, here you are, still pushing a position that you lost on. See, that, to me, screams, "shitty person."
Quote
Nobody seems to take him at his spoken words. Everybody wants to put words (that he did not speak) into his mouth.
Are you fucking daft? This whole thread is based on a claim about what he said that has not been - and will not be - substantiated.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:26:25 PM
Yes. Shir is correct, but only partially. Trump and the media work hand in hand. He did not start this on his own. The media is not stupid, but it is predictable. It just wants to start drama.
The interesting thing about Trump is he isn't malicious. He's incompetent. Liberal media will go out of their way to spin things like Trump is horrible and evil, when in reality he just doesn't know what he's doing. But hey, articles have to make headlines... Aka money.
Trump has proven time and time again that he is incapable of using his words right. And when he says something dumb, the media spins it I'm the way that he's only capable of being a prick, just like when Obama did something or couldn't accomplish something constructive media blamed him for being incompetent. I don't think Trump is fit for the job... not even close, but this is predictable by the media's standards.
Remember. The media made Trump president in the first place. Especially liberal media. It made Trump president even more than conservative media could ever hope for.
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Trump is Hillary's easiest opponent (cough). Bernie would walk over Trump even easier, but he isn't anointed holy oil by Pope Comey. Gen Kelley came out today and said, it was disgraceful for a congresswoman to listen in on a private conversation between Trump and that widow. From now on, invite them to the WH and keep the congress-critters out.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 19, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Fair play.
Ban all D and R voters equally? I am good with that ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2017, 06:26:18 PM
Yeah, it is. But it is difficult to not see it as simply another example of him not being able to demonstrate he has even the basic human emotions--and he just can't feel empathy for anybody but himself. Nobody seems to take him at his spoken words. Everybody wants to put words (that he did not speak) into his mouth. Just examine what he says and how he says it. He is a broken man.
We are all broken, just not in the same ways. I couldn't ever vote for any more ape men ... give me actual gorillas next time.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 19, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Fair play.
Don't worry. You're not breaking any rules. This is a good discussion, so far. This is why forums exist, in the first place, to discuss things, especially when people aren't exactly in alignment with their views
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Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2017, 04:59:11 PM
Seems like they're about 50% of reality.
If you're going to try to insult me, at least insult me with something of substance.
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 07:17:06 PM
If you're going to try to insult me, at least insult me with something of substance.
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I never
try to insult people.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2017, 07:27:14 PM
I never try to insult people.
That makes sense, then. No wonder it fell flat
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Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
Well, no; no, he hasn't. But you already lost this debate in another thread. Yet, here you are, still pushing a position that you lost on. See, that, to me, screams, "shitty person."
Are you fucking daft? This whole thread is based on a claim about what he said that has not been - and will not be - substantiated.
The left say he has actively endorsed racism, the racists say he has actively endorsed them... I'm sorry, but both sides disagree with you. So get the fuck out of here with that shitty argument bullshit; when your actions and words are racist, people of both sides are saying you are racist, the racists say you are racist... you're either racist, or the word racist doesn't mean shit. It seems the only way you will accept your idol is a racist douche Lord is if he explicitly said he was himself... and then you would just start arguing that being racist isn't even a big deal.
And the woman has now come out and said it's true... but let me guess, first hand accounts and the victim don't matter if Trump says it didn't happen. Just like the meeting with the Russians never happened. Or Obama meeting with widows never happened. Or that record breaking inauguration crowd did happen. Or...
@Pickled: not in the mood today to argue this shit because today was a great day, but it's been said several times now, so if it hasn't gotten through then it probably never will...
The civilian head of the military, the guy who's primarily role is to be the moral voice of the people, said something so insensitive that he caused a pregnant widow to break down and cry... who has repeatedly disrespected the troops and their families... is not normal behavior. That burden of proof that this is in any way, shape, or form "normal", when even people in your camp and even further down the line say it isn't, lands squarely on your shoulders.
I am not disagreeing with you because you are the other, I'm disagreeing with you because you are presented with evidence and just keep on saying, "Nah, you just disagree with me because you are a liberal!".
Put up or shut up, or at least don't expect people to start agreeing with you or stop talking about it. Give me evidence of presidents harassing veterans and their families, insulting prisoners of war for being PoWs, and I will concede right here and now that you are right, this is normal or at the very least has some historical similarities and is not a big deal.
I'm completely open to agree with you when you offer facts, offer evidence. But all you offer is opinion that you don't like us time and time again, and I'm sorry, but you can't expect to sway people by just saying they are wrong because they annoy you.
I think you have valid points about SJW culture and all that, but you never present anything other than they annoy you to make me see it as a legitimate issue. I am more than open for dialog and facts. I'm not open to changing my world view simply because of someone else's opinions on the subject.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
Well, no; no, he hasn't. But you already lost this debate in another thread. Yet, here you are, still pushing a position that you lost on. See, that, to me, screams, "shitty person."
Are you fucking daft? This whole thread is based on a claim about what he said that has not been - and will not be - substantiated.
Hey. No need to be hostile. Watch it.
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Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 03:23:49 AM
I agree it shouldn't be news, but the problem is that there are still huge hold outs of people who don't think he is an absolutely horrible human being.
Agreed. Even GWB has been taking shots at Trump, which is saying something.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 06:44:46 PMThis whole thread is based on a claim about what he said that has not been - and will not be - substantiated.
Did you expect the family to tape the phone call that they didn't know they'd receive? :eh:
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 07:28:17 PM
That makes sense, then. No wonder it fell flat
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Preparation H, I hear it helps.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2017, 08:53:29 PM
Preparation H, I hear it helps.
Thanks! I'll keep it in mind
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Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2017, 08:35:54 PM
Did you expect the family to tape the phone call that they didn't know they'd receive? :eh:
The post you are quoting has nothing to do with my expectations. It remains a truism regardless of my expectations.
Just once, I'd like to see a straightforward, honest answer to a serious question.
QuoteI am not disagreeing with you because you are the other, I'm disagreeing with you because you are presented with evidence and just keep on saying, "Nah, you just disagree with me because you are a liberal!".
Except, I'm not saying this. I'm saying that it's because liberal media loves to push this sort of stuff and you guys gobble it up like it's candy.
If you remember correctly, I stated many times that I am liberal. So, no. It's not that you're liberal. You, like many people on all sides of the political spectrum, are falling for the media's trap and getting distracted by stuff like this.
I am in the same boat of what aitm mentioned. This could have easily been an attempt at a compliment, or seen as one, at least.
Trump has many things against him, he basically "ok"ed a platform for hatespeech, and through his opportunistic personality, said that there are good people in nazi groups... which is clearly not the case. It's bizzare that he even suggested that... that anyone could suggest that, but he's the most watched person in the world right now, and I am betting that the pressure is getting to him. And because he isn't a genuine person, he is slipping up hardcore with his words. He just simply doesn't know what to do because he, out of attempts to not anger any side, he says shit like "there are fine people on both sides" I don't think he has malicious intent, like hydra is suggesting. He's incompetent at best. His incompetence is causing some horrible backlash, but it's not his intent. He's just dumb. He's definitely not a politician.
I haven't tried to sway you in a looooong time. TBH, I just don't care anymore about the extreme sjw culture. It's dying anyway. I've lost interest and I have more important things to do. I'm not really sure how these people that obsess about things like SJWs do get anything done, in all honesty. Unless they're making money off of perpetuating regurgitated empty rhetoric.
Back to the main topic, though. I think the issue of if he is being an asshole or not, is subjective, just like how you and I might not ever agree that he is being malicious or just plain dumb and incompetent. I would argue the latter. I don't think he's even capable of being malicious. The way this article is worded is clearly spun to make him look like an ass. I guess what he said could have been worded a bit better, but is everyone ignoring the second part of that sentence? "But when it happens it hurts anyway" So cleverly added at the end of that paragraph, like it was an afterthought, when it might not have been.
Idk. “He knew what he signed up for, but when it happens it hurts anyway"... I don't see how that is so insensitive like the media is spinning it. It just seems like a failed attempt at comforting them... A good try, I'd say too... and I hate Trump
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 09:19:18 PM
The post you are quoting has nothing to do with my expectations. It remains a truism regardless of my expectations.
No one knows what your expectations are because all you do is talk trash to people in threads. It's a wonder how anyone gives you the time of day in this site.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2017, 09:23:06 PM
Just once, I'd like to see a straightforward, honest answer to a serious question.
My answer is, 'No.'
Where do we go from there?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 09:36:13 PM
My answer is, 'No.'
Where do we go from there?
Finally. And the more reasonable of the two options. Honest and reasonable. Very good.
Well, now you know why it's a firsthand account rather than a claim backed up by evidence - because it wasn't recorded. So, do you understand now why calling it unsubstantiated doesn't cast doubt on the claim?
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2017, 09:50:49 PM
Finally. And the more reasonable of the two options. Honest and reasonable. Very good.
Well, now you know why it's a firsthand account rather than a claim backed up by evidence - because it wasn't recorded. So, do you understand now why calling it unsubstantiated doesn't cast doubt on the claim?
I have an unrecorded phone call tonight from Elvis ... so has to be true, because I didn't vote for Trump.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 19, 2017, 08:28:17 PM
Agreed. Even GWB has been taking shots at Trump, which is saying something.
So what. He can choke on another pretzel. Shrub's family are old traitors. If Trump is a horrible human being, that makes Hillary and the Hillary bots innocent? That Obama didn't commit treason with Comey and Bill Clinton over the uranium deal? Can't set up the concentration camps fast enough. You will all be made to play Concentration (old TV show) until you D-Nazis are blue in the face. The R-Nazis are already red in the face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsbEQHH0ak
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 19, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
Well, no; no, he hasn't. But you already lost this debate in another thread. Yet, here you are, still pushing a position that you lost on. See, that, to me, screams, "shitty person."
Are you fucking daft? This whole thread is based on a claim about what he said that has not been - and will not be - substantiated.
As I've pointed out before--you are suffering from brain rot (if you really have any left). You are a perfect Trump supporter.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2017, 11:09:08 PM
As I've pointed out before--you are suffering from brain rot (if you really have any left). You are a perfect Trump supporter.
I've gotten brain rot a few times while playing Skyrim. A potion of cure disease will clear that right up (although Gilgamesh should consider praying to Stendarr as well).
Sent while riding my mighty steed: Godzilla
Trump's response around 3:00... yeah, tell me more about how it was just an innocent remark.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 19, 2017, 11:45:11 PM
I've gotten brain rot a few times while playing Skyrim. A potion of cure disease will clear that right up (although Gilgamesh should consider praying to Stendarr as well).
Sent while riding my mighty steed: Godzilla
I hadn't really thought of that--good catch!! Those damn rats (trump supporters no doubt) have given that to me too--I always carry at least two of the cure disease potions with me at all times.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
I thought this was about what he said to the relative of a fallen soldier.
I fear for the country because of the voice he gave to nazis, but this is a different topic.
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You are right, it was. But it is difficult to unravel only a single thread when dealing with Trump. It all seems to spiral back to his lack of the ability to feel empathy and his deep seated need for revenge against real or imagined slights. And he has often said that that revenge would and will be be at least ten times as strong as the slight. This particular incident seems to be tied into his hatred for the dictator of Chad; in Trump's latest immigration ban list, Chad was included on it even tho Chad is the most effective force fighting Islamic terrorism in the central part of Africa; hence Chad removed their troops from that fight and that was when our 4 soldiers were killed. And he still hasn't told us why he put Chad on that list; or what the operation was that got those soldiers killed.
I'm waiting for him to put Wakanda on that list, because of the reported Black Panther activity there.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 20, 2017, 09:31:20 AM
You are right, it was. But it is difficult to unravel only a single thread when dealing with Trump. It all seems to spiral back to his lack of the ability to feel empathy and his deep seated need for revenge against real or imagined slights. And he has often said that that revenge would and will be be at least ten times as strong as the slight. This particular incident seems to be tied into his hatred for the dictator of Chad; in Trump's latest immigration ban list, Chad was included on it even tho Chad is the most effective force fighting Islamic terrorism in the central part of Africa; hence Chad removed their troops from that fight and that was when our 4 soldiers were killed. And he still hasn't told us why he put Chad on that list; or what the operation was that got those soldiers killed.
Another widow from April, just released a recording of her conversation with Trump. Not all all what you haters describe. Has some actual empathy. It is SJW-D-Party shits who lack real empathy, they just want to ride identity politics to gain absolute power. Many Americans need to be drafted, into a perpetual war with China ...
And no, no President is going to release to you or to me, what they do that is classified. Not that isn't a way to cover up mistakes and outright villainy ... but then that is what ape men do.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2017, 04:28:42 PM
I'm tired of all the whining. But I don't see or hear the whining as coming from the 'liberal media'. (Whatever and whoever that is) Trump has given life to and a voice to the Alt-Right. Hate that--alt-right--, let's name it what it is, white nationalism.
You can blame the media, I suppose, and I often do, but Trump brings this on himself. We understand the media. It's purpose may not always be praiseworthy, but if there is some kind of controversy to stir, the media will focus on it, often to a bizarre excess. Trump thrives on this sort of environment. The media was made for Trump. He's a media whore who has finally found a niche where he can get the ultimate attention he wants. Sure he complains about it and condemns it, but it's hard to believe he's not relishing every moment where he inserts himself into the limelight by acting like a jerk. Jerks are magnets for attention, and they know it, and they know how to get attention. Good for them, I suppose, but the problem is that all that attention they are able to focus on themselves does little or nothing for the common good.
That's what building a wall between the US and Mexico was about, a totally useless waste of money designed to draw attention because of the very nature of its ridiculous impracticality. But this sort of attention serves you well if you want to be a jerk, and a bunch of people will even love you for it. OK, so don't build a wall. Whatever. Who cares? Just shout absurd things and people will praise you for "saying it like it is," and you can think you're important.
The little guy wants to be treated like a real person, not like a prole or a peasant. Don't do that ... and the less educated in the US will rise up, under Soros and the Clintons (aka Pol Pot) and kill all the college graduates. Except of course for their agent provocateurs currently in college. Deep Dope.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2017, 09:50:49 PM
Finally. And the more reasonable of the two options. Honest and reasonable. Very good.
So, do you understand now why calling it unsubstantiated doesn't cast doubt on the claim?
Calling it unsubstantiated doesn't cast doubt. The fact that it IS unsubstantiated - and always will be - casts doubt on the claim.
Apparently the answer to that question is also no.
Quote from: Munch on October 18, 2017, 08:12:08 PM
As I've said before, america's survived Nixon, two Bush's and Ulysses S. Grant, I think it'll be fine.
But Trump is now, and now involves some intelligent leadership which he can't provide.
If the problem was just a simple difference of opinion about strategies or programs, I could just grit my teeth and wait. But Trump seems out to destroy all alliances, end all treaties, and create a world of chaos he can manipulate.
That's what wanna be dictators do at the start.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 03:55:01 AM
But Trump is now, and now involves some intelligent leadership which he can't provide.
If the problem was just a simple difference of opinion about strategies or programs, I could just grit my teeth and wait. But Trump seems out to destroy all alliances, end all treaties, and create a world of chaos he can manipulate.
That's what wanna be dictators do at the start.
I am all for Boys From Brazil ;-)
Normal person: Hmmm, do I trust that a chronic liar, egotistical jackass with no ability to properly convey sympathy because he lacks sympathy didn't make a widow cry because of heartless remarks, against the statement of the widow herself, because he and his lacky who has now been caught lying just to be an asshole as well said so? Nah, that would be stupid to take their word over the actual victims.
Trump supporters: FAKE NEWS! UNSUBSTANTIATED! YOU CANT KNOW!!! WHY YOU HATE TRUMP!!!!!!!!!! IT WASN'T EVEN BAD IF HE SAID IT!
I'm just wondering, if it's not a big deal and was just an innocent remark, why the fuck Trump and Kelly have to lash out at everyone, attack everyone's character, and just double down on being a pair of jackasses instead of just saying, "I'm truly sorry it was interpreted that way, it's not how I meant it and if anyone was insulted that was never my intention and I again deeply apologize."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/opinions/don-lemon-letter-to-trump-la-david-johnson/index.html
Tell me, how presidented is it for the president to start throwing shade on twitter at a widow of a KiA soldier?
Wait till all the Congress-critters are drafted into Marine Corp boot camp! I am going to love our military dictatorship then ;-) Too bad General Pinochet isn't available anymore.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 18, 2017, 08:14:46 PM
Telling her, "He knew what he signed up for, but when it happens it hurts anyways" is an objectively non-offensive thing to say. It's not bad in any way.
Under no circumstances should you ever say
It’s what he signed up for. Unless for some reason you’re secretly happy that he’s dead.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 22, 2017, 12:53:00 PM
Apparently the answer to that question is also no.
There is 0 mutual exclusion between the idea that 'arbitrarily recording every phonecall is absurd' and the fact that the claim is unsubstantiated (and suspect on account of it being posited by two democrats, one of which is a career politician for the party.) Both instances are truisms.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 24, 2017, 12:24:06 AM
I'm just wondering, if it's not a big deal and was just an innocent remark, why the fuck Trump and Kelly have to lash out at everyone, attack everyone's character, and just double down on being a pair of jackasses instead of just saying, "I'm truly sorry it was interpreted that way, it's not how I meant it and if anyone was insulted that was never my intention and I again deeply apologize."
Maybe because they're tired of malicious actors spreading propaganda and slander about them.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 25, 2017, 11:43:49 AMsuspect on account of it being posited by two democrats, one of which is a career politician for the party.
Well, at least you're being more honest now about your actual reasons for automatically disbelieving the accusation. Doubt based on partisanship rather than skepticism.
Personally, I'm more likely to believe that the chronic liar is lying (he even did the "everybody knows it" routine, which is sort of a tell for him), especially since it's more than one person's firsthand account.
Also:
The check's been in the pipeline for months, but it's dated from the same day the media started asking about it (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/24/trumps-25-000-family-slain-soldier-arrives-after-questions-press/793501001/).
Very strange how that works out.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on October 25, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
Maybe because they're tired of malicious actors spreading propaganda and slander about them.
Has Trump ever gone a day without lying? He did not on the campaign trail--and not since he has been in the White House. As for slander--he invented that stuff. He slanders on a daily basis. That is one of his main tactics. You really are just as sleazy as your hero, aren't you. Not a question--a statement. Slime.................................
Found this on the web:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMpkkJfWsAA-eYf.jpg)
Starting an argument with, "Found this on the web", probably isn't the greatest argument you can make. If you want, I can go "find" a post of yours saying that you love Muslims and infact have 5 gay Muslim lovers who gay love the Muslim right into you. Does that mean it's true?
My god, is there anything you aren't a hateful little shit about? That "so called" politician is actually a very close friend of the family that was invited by Johnson to listen to the conversation.
Use some common sense for once in your life and ask yourself if that post is remotely consistent with the message she has given to the media or with what someone would say about a family friend who was important enough to be invited into such an important call.
Every fart Trump makes is a "Bengazi" .. gotta cover for the Hillarybots. This will end in tears ... the Americans don't deserve to survive even the drive to work. They should have all been slaughtered in 1865 ... for their irredeemable sins (as seen by then Christian Americans). The Natives would have smoked a peace pipe in our remembrance, and then politely invited the Blacks to return to Africa, or else.
Quote from: fencerider on October 24, 2017, 01:01:53 AM
Under no circumstances should you ever say It’s what he signed up for. Unless for some reason you’re secretly happy that he’s dead.
The upper class want all of us dead. It never was a secret.
Found this on the web:
(https://s.faketrumptweet.com/j98ruhcc_b7r8mz_lak1ca.png)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 19, 2017, 04:26:25 PM
Remember. The media made Trump president in the first place. Especially liberal media. It made Trump president even more than conservative media could ever hope for.
All for-profit media is for-profit first, long before they're liberal or conservative. Asshole and the ongoing train-wreck aroudn him puts butts in seats where they can be advertised at, and the media knew that when he first threw his made-in-China hat into the ring. They've
always known that he'd be a ratings bonanza for them, so they've always reported him differently than any other candidate -- otherwise his candidacy would have ended the day he mocked a disabled reporter as any other candidate's would have.
As they say, follow the money.
Quote from: trdsf on October 26, 2017, 03:41:26 PM
All for-profit media is for-profit first, long before they're liberal or conservative. Asshole and the ongoing train-wreck aroudn him puts butts in seats where they can be advertised at, and the media knew that when he first threw his made-in-China hat into the ring. They've always known that he'd be a ratings bonanza for them, so they've always reported him differently than any other candidate -- otherwise his candidacy would have ended the day he mocked a disabled reporter as any other candidate's would have.
As they say, follow the money.
William Randolph Hearst would definitely vote for Trump ;-)
The media has always been built upon the premise that if it bleeds it leads and the trump problem, and its a YUGE problem is that the if it bleeds it leads has morphed into if it screams shit 24/7 it leads.
What I find more bothersome is trump is about to visit China and he'll very likely get wooed by the Chinese who will flattering him into handing over the last vestiges of our sovereignty to the Chinese government for a bit of ego stroking.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 26, 2017, 11:15:05 PM
The media has always been built upon the premise that if it bleeds it leads and the trump problem, and its a YUGE problem is that the if it bleeds it leads has morphed into if it screams shit 24/7 it leads.
What I find more bothersome is trump is about to visit China and he'll very likely get wooed by the Chinese who will flattering him into handing over the last vestiges of our sovereignty to the Chinese government for a bit of ego stroking.
I welcome our Chinese overlords. Now that for the first time since Mao, Xi has just been hailed as the new Mao ... his own "sayings" being added to the little red book.
There are so many problems with Trump.
He lies routinely, he insults gratuitously, and he has no sense of other nations or people actually existing. The best I might say is that he doesn't actually even remember the things he says about people or nations one day to the next. I suspect he only exists in the present.
It is hard to say he is actually "lying", because he seems to believe everything he says. It doesn't matter to him whether what he says is true or not, only that what he says gets him to the goal of glorifying Trump.
And we are not going to get him out of the Presidency in this term. The only hope is to survive until 2020 and hope he gets primaried out or loses the general election to almost ANYONE with a basic sense of government.
Quote from: Baruch on October 25, 2017, 09:00:52 PM
The upper class want all of us dead. It never was a secret.
not that I am worth more to them dead than alive. Aint got anything valuable for them to get their mitts on
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 25, 2017, 12:41:05 PM
Has Trump ever gone a day without lying?
I think that happened on the day he was flying to Japan. didnt have a microphone ;-)
Cavebear:
we are not going to get him out of the presidency this termCross your fingers. If Congress doesn’t pass any big ticket items there will be a lot of people get kicked out of Congress in 2018. We can hope they are replaced by people willing to impeach him.
Quote from: fencerider on October 28, 2017, 11:49:34 PM
not that I am worth more to them dead than alive. Aint got anything valuable for them to get their mitts on
I think that happened on the day he was flying to Japan. didnt have a microphone ;-)
Cavebear: we are not going to get him out of the presidency this term
Cross your fingers. If Congress doesn’t pass any big ticket items there will be a lot of people get kicked out of Congress in 2018. We can hope they are replaced by people willing to impeach him.
It isn't just avarice ... the upper class is always paranoid about a slave revolt.
Quote from: Baruch on October 29, 2017, 12:06:19 AM
It isn't just avarice ... the upper class is always paranoid about a slave revolt.
And that is why the citizens get to vote. Sure the rich try their best to stay on top, but the 99% sometimes get things right. Clinton, Gore, Obama, Clinton.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 01:05:16 AM
And that is why the citizens get to vote. Sure the rich try their best to stay on top, but the 99% sometimes get things right. Clinton, Gore, Obama, Clinton.
Ha ... some apes are more equal than the other apes ...
Voting is controlled opposition, just like everything else.
Quote from: Baruch on October 31, 2017, 07:16:39 AM
Ha ... some apes are more equal than the other apes ...
Voting is controlled opposition, just like everything else.
No. the voting is pooched lately. Rural States get a disproportionate electoral vote and many States are skewed locally. There is a reason Democrats get 60% of the votes in some States and less than half the congressional districts. It's called "Gerrymandering". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
No. the voting is pooched lately. Rural States get a disproportionate electoral vote and many States are skewed locally. There is a reason Democrats get 60% of the votes in some States and less than half the congressional districts. It's called "Gerrymandering". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
Don't worry, nuclear warheads will solve our urban problem. The Corn Palace will be safe ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Palace
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
No. the voting is pooched lately. Rural States get a disproportionate electoral vote and many States are skewed locally. There is a reason Democrats get 60% of the votes in some States and less than half the congressional districts. It's called "Gerrymandering". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
The good news is that it looks like Kennedy is the swing vote on the gerrymandering case before the Supreme Court, and it further looks like Kennedy is leaning towards finding a way to restrict or bar gerrymandering. His questioning of the "pro-gerrymandering" attorneys was sharp and harsh; he did not even question the attorneys opposite. Historically, Kennedy reserves his stronger questioning for the side he is leaning away from. It's not a foolproof rule, but it is a historical indicator of which way he may go.
Granted that predicting the Supreme Court is about as easy as Kremlinology during the Cold War, or forecasting who the next pope will be, there's still some tentative cause for optimism. The most likely outcome is a 5-4 majority that strikes partisan gerrymandering when it passes some recognizable point.
There's a slim chance Roberts may join if the decision hinges on something like 'one person, one vote' rather than more abstruse legal reasoning -- I get the feeling that Roberts has always had one eye on his legacy, and wouldn't care to be a Chief Justice who voted against an equal-access decision. A decision to strike in principle, but with only tepid remedies, might be enough to coax him over. And while it wouldn't be a perfect decision, it would be a step in the right direction.
Alito, Thomas and The Interloper are hopeless, of course.
Yes, ending gerrymandering would be nice. We haven't done it in over 200 years, but we can keep hoping.
Quote from: trdsf on November 01, 2017, 01:01:18 PM
The good news is that it looks like Kennedy is the swing vote on the gerrymandering case before the Supreme Court, and it further looks like Kennedy is leaning towards finding a way to restrict or bar gerrymandering. His questioning of the "pro-gerrymandering" attorneys was sharp and harsh; he did not even question the attorneys opposite. Historically, Kennedy reserves his stronger questioning for the side he is leaning away from. It's not a foolproof rule, but it is a historical indicator of which way he may go.
Granted that predicting the Supreme Court is about as easy as Kremlinology during the Cold War, or forecasting who the next pope will be, there's still some tentative cause for optimism. The most likely outcome is a 5-4 majority that strikes partisan gerrymandering when it passes some recognizable point.
There's a slim chance Roberts may join if the decision hinges on something like 'one person, one vote' rather than more abstruse legal reasoning -- I get the feeling that Roberts has always had one eye on his legacy, and wouldn't care to be a Chief Justice who voted against an equal-access decision. A decision to strike in principle, but with only tepid remedies, might be enough to coax him over. And while it wouldn't be a perfect decision, it would be a step in the right direction.
Alito, Thomas and The Interloper are hopeless, of course.
I expect that Kennedy will become just the 4th vote of the minority opinion...
The difference between Abraham Lincoln and Donald Trump:
Trump: "He knew what he signed up for."
Abraham Lincoln:
Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.
Dear Madam,--
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle.
I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save.
I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.
Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln
Kind of a difference there, right?
Apples and oranges comparison much? And sorry, Abraham Lincoln had his constitutional problems too, but that didn't stop him. I give him an A for vision and an A for trying. What we need is a good civil war against the Democrats, and a suspension of civil liberties.
Quote from: Baruch on November 04, 2017, 10:57:11 AM
Apples and oranges comparison much? And sorry, Abraham Lincoln had his constitutional problems too, but that didn't stop him. I give him an A for vision and an A for trying. What we need is a good civil war against the Democrats, and a suspension of civil liberties.
I eat both apples and oranges daily. And plums and strawberries and bananas. The mix is not bad, but good.
My point was that Lincoln understood how to discuss sensitive and personal griefs with families in a time when 10,000 soldiers could be killed in a single day, and Trump cannot deal with 4 in two weeks...
Trump didn't care; they were just "temp employees" in his mind.