So as some of you may have heard, a woman was shot and killed after she ran over a police officer and that officers partner proceeded to put 3 into her chest.
Though some articles are more slanted than others the general facts are
-she crashed into a wall/object near a bunch of people
-clearly and heavily inebriated
-had a guy with her
-police attempted to arrest her
-something happens, she panics?
-she attempts to flee and in doing so runs over one of the arresting officers
-remaining officer proceeds to shoot her 3 times, eventually proving fatal
-she was in college and by some accounts wanted to be a lawyer
-her father thus far isn't railing against the system, but is heartbroken about his daughter being killed. By some accounts saying that he wished she had never been drinking.
-she was black
By questions are
Was this woman acting aggressively with intent to harm, panicking and attempting to flee, were the cops justified in opening fire according to the law, does the color of her skin matter as much as her running into a cop?
My own opinion: she panicked and did something stupid and then did even more stupid by running over a cop, as the other one on duty you have to assume intent to harm/kill especially with other civilians nearby. And her skin does not matter as much as being bit by a car used as a deadly weapon.
Whatever the reasons everybody had this is a great case of escalation-by-gun.
Honestly, giving the state of things in america with the joy happy gun toting cops and easy to access firearms the average citizen can get ahold of, its no wonder it forms the kind of mindset people like this woman had, and fear it creates. Its pretty insane some of the stories coming out of america related to gun crimes and the fact police have no restraint when holding one.
Quote from: Munch on October 12, 2017, 11:10:27 AM
Honestly, giving the state of things in america with the joy happy gun toting cops and easy to access firearms the average citizen can get ahold of, its no wonder it forms the kind of mindset people like this woman had, and fear it creates. Its pretty insane some of the stories coming out of america related to gun crimes and the fact police have no restraint when holding one.
The best figures I've seen say you have a 1/110,000,000 chance of being shot by a police officer on any given day. Other figures show that 3% of Americans own 126,000,000 guns, collectively. That's half of all guns in America. Most Americans don't own a gun. Most Americans who own a gun own just one.
So, Americans can't be characterized by sweeping generalizations, not even American cops.
This was similar to the woman in Washington DC, with the baby in the back seat, who tried to ... accidentally or deliberately ... drive into the WH driveway, past the armed guards. Did she panic? What was her intent? We will never know. She was Black and the WH guards shot her dead, but fortunately missed her baby.
I have only been in one incident (I wasn't driving) where we tried to elude the police. We did. But my buddy from HS scared the shit out of me. No telling what the cop would have done if he/she had caught us.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 12, 2017, 07:53:28 AM
So as some of you may have heard, a woman was shot and killed after she ran over a police officer and that officers partner proceeded to put 3 into her chest.
Though some articles are more slanted than others the general facts are
-she crashed into a wall/object near a bunch of people
-clearly and heavily inebriated
-had a guy with her
-police attempted to arrest her
-something happens, she panics?
-she attempts to flee and in doing so runs over one of the arresting officers
-remaining officer proceeds to shoot her 3 times, eventually proving fatal
-she was in college and by some accounts wanted to be a lawyer
-her father thus far isn't railing against the system, but is heartbroken about his daughter being killed. By some accounts saying that he wished she had never been drinking.
-she was black
By questions are
Was this woman acting aggressively with intent to harm, panicking and attempting to flee, were the cops justified in opening fire according to the law, does the color of her skin matter as much as her running into a cop?
My own opinion: she panicked and did something stupid and then did even more stupid by running over a cop, as the other one on duty you have to assume intent to harm/kill especially with other civilians nearby. And her skin does not matter as much as being bit by a car used as a deadly weapon.
The police rule is shoot first and ask questions later. And guess who gets to ask the questions? They think they are 007 with license to kill.
It has to stop. And it will only stop when some murderous police get hauled off to jail for their crimes.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 04:59:25 AM
The police rule is shoot first and ask questions later. And guess who gets to ask the questions? They think they are 007 with license to kill.
It has to stop. And it will only stop when some murderous police get hauled off to jail for their crimes.
I agree. I don't support rogue cops, or rogue police departments. Alas, that is what we got. And more White folk are killed by cops than colored folk (yes, the percentage is disproportionate ... so we need to have cops kill more White folk to compensate).
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:35:50 AM
I agree. I don't support rogue cops, or rogue police departments. Alas, that is what we got. And more White folk are killed by cops than colored folk (yes, the percentage is disproportionate ... so we need to have cops kill more White folk to compensate).
And the numbers are wrong by definition. More whites are killed, but not innocent ones. It is a false equivalency to compare a bank robber killed in a firefight with a black guy sitting in a car. Don't be insultingly stupid about that. There is a difference between "arrested while white" and "shot for being black".
So just to be clear, you're saying that they should have not fired on her after she ran over a cop and was attempting to flee an arrest at the same time while inebriated and endangering civilian lives?
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 09:37:31 AM
So just to be clear, you're saying that they should have not fired on her after she ran over a cop and was attempting to flee an arrest at the same time while inebriated and endangering civilian lives?
I'm saying that MOST examples show extreme lethal police prejudice.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 09:49:58 AM
I'm saying that MOST examples show extreme lethal police prejudice.
Yes but the example provided I was asking opinions on this specific event, not cop shootings in general. In this specific event, was it warranted? That was the question
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 10:05:15 AM
Yes but the example provided I was asking opinions on this specific event, not cop shootings in general. In this specific event, was it warranted? That was the question
A specific event among many others means little.
So you refuse to answer the question at hand and instead return to blanket covering everything?
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
So you refuse to answer the question at hand and instead return to blanket covering everything?
Your focus on one event matters little. You are using it for a purpose I do not share.
So you'd rather go to an anti cop argument rather then address specifically what this post is about. Just to be clear. You're on the anti cop arguement to the point where you refuse to discuss or perhaps even fathom an event where a police officer is warranted or forced to use wounding or deadly force.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 10:56:55 AM
So you'd rather go to an anti cop argument rather then address specifically what this post is about. Just to be clear. You're on the anti cop arguement to the point where you refuse to discuss or perhaps even fathom an event where a police officer is warranted or forced to use wounding or deadly force.
I am not anti-cop. I am anti-murder. If you wish to discuss one event, please feel free to do so.
Aha now we're getting somewhere. Yes this was intended to address this single event, and the use of deadly force . Keep in mind of what this woman was doing and what she was capable of doing and tell me how they could have stopped her at that moment without deadly force as you would wish and I would gladly listen
If I need to rewrite the facts so you can see them I can do
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 11:04:55 AM
Aha now we're getting somewhere. Yes this was intended to address this single event, and the use of deadly force . Keep in mind of what this woman was doing and what she was capable of doing and tell me how they could have stopped her at that moment without deadly force as you would wish and I would gladly listen
If I need to rewrite the facts so you can see them I can do
You fail to understand. You wish to use some specific event to demonstrate a broad view, and I really don't care. You are attempting to use an anectdotal example to make some claim, and I'm simply not going to pay attention to it. Complain all you want. But provide a few dozen examples and I might.
I could do just that, and you are the one complaining mr. High and mighty. You read my post and decided to post something that was in no way an answer to a question I asked and even went so far as to claim I was attempting to use one event to justify everhting which is wrong. Bad boy.
I said in this specific event was it justified and you refused to answer that. Blatantly. And the fact that you're still here means you do care. You softy you.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 11:12:46 AM
I could do just that, and you are the one complaining mr. High and mighty. You read my post and decided to post something that was in no way an answer to a question I asked and even went so far as to claim I was attempting to use one event to justify everhting which is wrong. Bad boy.
I said in this specific event was it justified and you refused to answer that. Blatantly. And the fact that you're still here means you do care. You softy you.
No. I'm still here because you insist that I play an argument game I don't care about and it amuses me.
Let's say you present the best argument you can about whatever it is you are arguing for, and I'll read it and reply.
I'm not arguing anything besides the fact that you have yet to answer the question i originally proposed, you went off on a tangent
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 11:27:49 AM
I'm not arguing anything besides the fact that you have yet to answer the question i originally proposed, you went off on a tangent
I don't feel like reading the original long post. Express it succintly and I'll discuss it.
Based on what the woman had already done and was continuing to do was the officer who shot her justified or required to shoot her
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 12:32:52 PM
Based on what the woman had already done and was continuing to do was the officer who shot her justified or required to shoot her
Who
What
When
Where?
Woman ran over a police officer, while she was drunk and hitting cars on the side of the road. While narrowly avoiding some pedestrians and almost hitting more. Then attempted to flee the scene after the officers tried to apprehend her without violence, then she ran one over. And the other officer shot her to death after this
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 12:45:23 PM
Woman ran over a police officer, while she was drunk and hitting cars on the side of the road. While narrowly avoiding some pedestrians and almost hitting more. Then attempted to flee the scene after the officers tried to apprehend her without violence, then she ran one over. And the other officer shot her to death after this
Given those as facts? Blow her away. She was killable the moment she tried to kill anyone with her car. If those are the facts.
See that was easy.
That sounds all I was asking the whole time
Nothing more nothing less
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on October 18, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
That sounds all I was asking the whole time
Nothing more nothing less
Your focus wasn't my focus... Get used to it. LOL!
A sad event, but I can't really fault the cop in this case. I doubt she meant to kill anyone, but she shouldn't have been driving drunk, and trying to escape arrest is not a good idea. I can't really imagine any way the situation could have been handled better.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 08:00:45 AM
And the numbers are wrong by definition. More whites are killed, but not innocent ones. It is a false equivalency to compare a bank robber killed in a firefight with a black guy sitting in a car. Don't be insultingly stupid about that. There is a difference between "arrested while white" and "shot for being black".
Yes, all Whites are devils ... go to Nation of Islam meetings much?
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:30:33 PM
Yes, all Whites are devils ... go to Nation of Islam meetings much?
You are being deliberately obtuse again. Its embarrassing. Do you stay up nights thinking of stupid things to post?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 05:10:47 AM
You are being deliberately obtuse again. Its embarrassing. Do you stay up nights thinking of stupid things to post?
I stay up all nights ... posting.
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 11:32:54 PM
I stay up all nights ... posting.
I stay up nights thinking more than I post. Some thinking is better than posting sometimes.