Atheistforums

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: Greatest I am on October 05, 2017, 09:34:34 PM

Title: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 05, 2017, 09:34:34 PM
If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

 We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2017, 09:40:49 PM
How have you been doing, GIA?  Missed you.

The first act of opposing something that is wrong, is to not embrace it yourself.

But the neo-lib version is ... compare reality to idealism, and where reality comes up short, force reality to change to our liking.  Unfortunately we don't all agree on the specifics.

The neocon version is ... reality is what it is, exploit what it is, don't bother to force reality to change, simply recognize it and use it to your advantage.

I tend to be centrist.  Recognize reality for what it is, but don't idealize or be cynical either.  There is very little we can do to make things better.  It is Ok to do that much, but sometimes in trying to hard too make things better, we make things worse.  If you have an opportunity to exploit, consider passing that opportunity by.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 05, 2017, 10:03:00 PM
Hey buddy. Long time no chat. Nice to bump into you again.

I can agree that it would be hard to oppose what one embraces.

I do not see a lot of Jewish do unto others in your words my friend.

What do you think of this quote and should the sentiment not include all those around us?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Your words don't quite match what I have seen you lovingly try to do on occasion with your own interlocutors.

I thought you recognized that if none of us took the steps of correcting each other, we would still be living in trees and caves.

Regards
DL


Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2017, 06:30:50 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hey buddy. Long time no chat. Nice to bump into you again.

I can agree that it would be hard to oppose what one embraces.

I do not see a lot of Jewish do unto others in your words my friend.

What do you think of this quote and should the sentiment not include all those around us?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Your words don't quite match what I have seen you lovingly try to do on occasion with your own interlocutors.

I thought you recognized that if none of us took the steps of correcting each other, we would still be living in trees and caves.

Regards
DL

Biblical correction is rather severe.  I am gentle.  Like Jesus, my yoke (yoga) is light.  Right now there is only one youth posting here, so not many in need of correction that fit that profile.  Mostly ape men in need of a banana.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Mike Cl on October 06, 2017, 09:39:20 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL
As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.   
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2017, 11:06:38 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.

Can evil fight evil?  Who are the good guys?  Can the house of Satan stand?
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: pr126 on October 07, 2017, 02:19:10 AM
Quote
If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Well, you can try.


Islam has been created from the get go for conquest, imperialist - military expansionby war, deception and coertion.

There is no separation of Mosque and state. Law, finance, politics, in fact all aspect of life  is regulated by the system.
The religious aspect of this political system is there to ensure compliance, cohesion.

Islam permits encourages to spread itself by war.
It permits polygamy for replacement of soldiers killed in wars,
More recently for the purpose of demographic advantage.
It teaches hate and warfare against unbelievers.
Women are possessions to the Muslim Male.
Gender apartheid.
Brutal medieval punishments to offenders
Death penalty for apostasy.
And much more.

But to publicly oppose this ideology/religion is forbidden all over the world.

You can try, and suffer the consequences.

That is how weak are the non-Muslims while Islam is gaining strength globally.
Deny it all you want, it will not change reality.





Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 07, 2017, 02:29:27 AM
I only follow one, the most fantastic crime fighter the world has ever known.  Chicken Man. (he's everywhere, he's everywhere!)
https://youtu.be/B863IdiQWMw
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2017, 09:42:28 AM
Hey, at work, I am Super Chicken Little Man.  I chicken shit all over your homage to a radio show from the 1960s ;-)
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Mike Cl on October 07, 2017, 09:49:55 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Can evil fight evil?  Who are the good guys?  Can the house of Satan stand?
Which brings us to the word 'evil'--what is it?  The OP seems to think it (whatever it is--he did not define it) religion can fight it.  In my eyes, evil and religion go together. 
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2017, 09:55:05 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Which brings us to the word 'evil'--what is it?  The OP seems to think it (whatever it is--he did not define it) religion can fight it.  In my eyes, evil and religion go together.

In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Mike Cl on October 07, 2017, 10:07:52 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 03:04:06 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.

"Alien Slaves:

    "Of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondwomen. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them may ye buy and of their families that are with you which they have begotten in your land; and they may be your possession" (Lev. 25:44–45).

Paupers & Debtors:

    A debtor who is unable to pay his debts may give himself in bondage to his creditor (cf. Lev. 25:39; Prov. 22:7; see also II Kings 4:1; Isa. 50:1; Amos 2:6, 8:6; Neh. 5:5). According to other opinions, the verse in Leviticus 25:39 deals with an ordinary pauper who sold himself and the debtor's bondage was against strict law, although it happened from time to time in practice (see Elon, Ḥerut ha-Perat, 1–10, and n. 9; *Execution (Civil)).

Criminals:

    A thief who is unable to make restitution is "sold for his theft" (Ex. 22:2).

Prisoners of War:

    It would appear from Numbers 31:26–27 and Deuteronomy 20:10–11 that prisoners of war could be, and were, taken into bondage, but it has been contended that no prisoners of war were ever taken into private slavery (Kaufmann, Y., Toledot 1 (1937), 651).

Female Slaves:

    A father may sell his daughter into slavery (Ex. 21:7), usually apparently for household duties and eventual marriage (Ex. 21:7–11).

Children of Slaves:

    The Bible mentions "the son of thy handmaid" (Ex. 23:12), "he that is born in the house" (Gen. 17:12, 13; Lev. 22:11), indicating that the status of slaves devolved upon their children.

"
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 05:27:51 PM
Yes, in another reality, Jews conquered the Earth and exterminated the Germans (not).  The actual eye-for-an-eye law was liberal, but was invented in Babylon by King Hammurabi ... before Abraham was born.  Rabbinic Jewish leaders made the standard of evidence so difficult, that it was rare to convict anyone of a capital crime.  Which is just as well, since our Gentile overlords didn't like us doing capital punishment ... they preferred to do that themselves.

And yes, I ride to work every day on a camel, that is why the Tanakh/OT is so relevant today ;-)  Jews haven't been even approximately OT since 135 CE.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yes, in another reality, Jews conquered the Earth and exterminated the Germans (not).  The actual eye-for-an-eye law was liberal, but was invented in Babylon by King Hammurabi ... before Abraham was born.  Rabbinic Jewish leaders made the standard of evidence so difficult, that it was rare to convict anyone of a capital crime.  Which is just as well, since our Gentile overlords didn't like us doing capital punishment ... they preferred to do that themselves.

And yes, I ride to work every day on a camel, that is why the Tanakh/OT is so relevant today ;-)  Jews haven't been even approximately OT since 135 CE.

Im sure there are sci-fi books about the Jews being the majority religion on Earth or some other planet.   Whoppee.

Which would be interesting to discuss the alt-Earth.  But then you go dumb about "ride to work every day on a camel".
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 09, 2017, 09:58:17 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Im sure there are sci-fi books about the Jews being the majority religion on Earth or some other planet.   Whoppee.

Which would be interesting to discuss the alt-Earth.  But then you go dumb about "ride to work every day on a camel".

Some prefer ancient BS, others prefer futuristic BS.  I live in the present.  Nothing in the Bible applies to me ... or any other Jew.  Most Jews are secular/atheists.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 11:56:46 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Biblical correction is rather severe.  I am gentle.  Like Jesus, my yoke (yoga) is light.  Right now there is only one youth posting here, so not many in need of correction that fit that profile.  Mostly ape men in need of a banana.

Nice to be able to laugh on occasions.

It is an atheist site after all.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.   

Not to get into too much semantics but I think you confuse faith and belief. Faith to me does not take reasoning but belief in something does as it has to get past your reality filters.

I also see atheism as an ideology or  belief system. Yours, to me, as you say includes non-belief in any God. Other than those semantic definition issue, we have no argument.

I like that you follow the Golden rule but would point out that when you correct a theist, and he takes your correction, you in a sense do harm to his mind as he now has to adjust his thinking.

I see the good in that and he should as well but it will hurt for a bit before he ses your tough love for the good that it is.

Do not stop though.

I hope you do that elsewhere as here you might not have much access to those who need correcting the most.

Regards
DL   
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

But to publicly oppose this ideology/religion is forbidden all over the world.

You can try, and suffer the consequences.

That is how weak are the non-Muslims while Islam is gaining strength globally.
Deny it all you want, it will not change reality.


You know Islam well.

There are some Muslim countries that allow criticism but mostly where Muslims are not the majority. In those, they tend to kill apostates.

They are gaining in some countries but also losing in places like China and Myanmar.

I think that many countries are getting fed up with them though which is unfortunately helping right wing governments get elected into power. I am more left wing and do not like that trend. Countries are getting Trumped, so to speak.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 12:35:09 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.

We Gnostic oppose both organized religion as well as the idol worshiping religions as they cause the most trouble for people.

Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God.

Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?

I think that they and early Gnostic Christians were calling themselves Chrestians before Christianity usurped their God and holy books and made them theirs.

Can you tell I hunger for a historian?

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 12:37:01 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 

In this case, let's say homophobia, misogyny and a slave mentality.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2017, 01:15:58 PM
"Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God." ... of course that is true ;-)

"Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?" ... I have a divided opinion.  Karaite Jews aren't very relevant today, compared to 1100 years ago.  The most relevant are secular/atheist Jews.  Next are the Orthodox Jews.  I can't see how to sort that out, who is "most struggling" .. I would have to go with the secular/atheist Jews ... but mostly against, not for G-d.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 10, 2017, 02:58:57 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God." ... of course that is true ;-)

"Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?" ... I have a divided opinion.  Karaite Jews aren't very relevant today, compared to 1100 years ago.  The most relevant are secular/atheist Jews.  Next are the Orthodox Jews.  I can't see how to sort that out, who is "most struggling" .. I would have to go with the secular/atheist Jews ... but mostly against, not for G-d.

Thanks much. The way I see things, the Jews were on their way to a rather good ideology before Christianity took over and screwed things up.

Gnostic Christianity is quite close to secular and Karaite Jews and perhaps that explains why some say that the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

The Cathars might have been bang on in calling their Bishops Parfait. That French translates to perfect in English.

I am a Parfait WIP. ;-)

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Mike Cl on October 10, 2017, 05:30:22 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In this case, let's say homophobia, misogyny and a slave mentality.

Regards
DL
Those are some of my evils as well.  But hardly all encompassing.  Since you are Gnostic, how does a fictional jesus or a fictional bible help you in any way to figure out what evil is?
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 04:52:47 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not to get into too much semantics but I think you confuse faith and belief. Faith to me does not take reasoning but belief in something does as it has to get past your reality filters.

I also see atheism as an ideology or  belief system. Yours, to me, as you say includes non-belief in any God. Other than those semantic definition issue, we have no argument.

I like that you follow the Golden rule but would point out that when you correct a theist, and he takes your correction, you in a sense do harm to his mind as he now has to adjust his thinking.

I see the good in that and he should as well but it will hurt for a bit before he ses your tough love for the good that it is.

Do not stop though.

I hope you do that elsewhere as here you might not have much access to those who need correcting the most.

Regards
DL

You can always identify a theist when they say "atheism" [is] an ideology or  belief system".  Like bald is a hair color.  The idea offends me , the person has to be a fool, and obviously a theist.  Theists just HAVE to assume everyone must believe in SOME deity, do if it isn't theirs it is either a false positive one (like llah to chistians or a satanic one.  Such people are idiots and their numbers are legion.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 09:58:40 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Those are some of my evils as well.  But hardly all encompassing.  Since you are Gnostic, how does a fictional jesus or a fictional bible help you in any way to figure out what evil is?

One issue/question at a a time.

Now that we agree on some evils, are you fighting those evils here and elsewhere?

To your last.
It is the analysing of what those fictions say, that form my view of good and evil, but I get views from non-fictional sources as well and apply reason and logic to them. I also get my views of what is immoral from those same sources.

The source does not matter, the thinking and conclusions I come up with what I embrace. I do not care who the messenger is and focus on the message.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 10:03:04 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You can always identify a theist when they say "atheism" [is] an ideology or  belief system".  Like bald is a hair color.  The idea offends me , the person has to be a fool, and obviously a theist.  Theists just HAVE to assume everyone must believe in SOME deity, do if it isn't theirs it is either a false positive one (like llah to chistians or a satanic one.  Such people are idiots and their numbers are legion.

As I said, we have no argument so I will ignore your rather ignorant reply.

You can take your view here if you want.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/atheist-churches-for-real.515762/

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 10:44:27 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As I said, we have no argument so I will ignore your rather ignorant reply.

You can take your view here if you want.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/atheist-churches-for-real.515762/

Regards
DL

I should hesitate to say I dislike new theists since I am just celebrating my anniversary here.  But I do. 

The discussion is getting so weird I can't tell theists from the atheists lately.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: pr126 on October 11, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
If atheism is a belief system, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 11:02:46 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If atheism is a belief system, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I like that way of putting it.  My Maternal Grampa tried to get my involved in that hobby but I escaped it.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I should hesitate to say I dislike new theists since I am just celebrating my anniversary here.  But I do. 

The discussion is getting so weird I can't tell theists from the atheists lately.

I have the same problem.

I draw the line at supernatural belief and whether someone is an idol worshiper or a God seeker on the religious side.

Regards
DL



Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 01:25:31 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have the same problem.

I draw the line at supernatural belief and whether someone is an idol worshiper or a God seeker on the religious side.

Regards
DL

The line is drawn, but which side do you stand?
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 02:17:02 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The line is drawn, but which side do you stand?

I reject all things supernatural.

Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenists and perpetual seekers.

Like Karaite Jews, we place man above God. And why not, they are all man made.

I think that Gnostic Christianity is the only ideology that can be a bridge between atheists or non-believers and believers.

That fact was what scared the hell out of ancie3nt Christianity and governments and that is why we had to die.

When both sides hate you, you will know you are on the right path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGLdJIh3-3U

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:24:29 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I reject all things supernatural.

Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenists and perpetual seekers.

Like Karaite Jews, we place man above God. And why not, they are all man made.

I think that Gnostic Christianity is the only ideology that can be a bridge between atheists or non-believers and believers.

That fact was what scared the hell out of ancie3nt Christianity and governments and that is why we had to die.

When both sides hate you, you will know you are on the right path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGLdJIh3-3U

Regards
DL

You should talk to Baruch more often.  Feel free to confuse each other.  However, by my merely saying that, Baruch will probably have to agree with you.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 02:38:49 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You should talk to Baruch more often.  Feel free to confuse each other.  However, by my merely saying that, Baruch will probably have to agree with you.

He and I agree on most things. Surprising as I see him as above my pay scale. Mind you, the odd time I have to ignore a few of his analogues connections and just cherry pick what I recognize from his wealth of knowledge. What I badly put in three sentences, he would perhaps take 3 chapters to say the same thing. That is not a complaint. It is just showing the complexity of his delivery as compared to mine. Our thinking is close on many issues.

Regards
DL

 
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:45:54 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
He and I agree on most things. Surprising as I see him as above my pay scale. Mind you, the odd time I have to ignore a few of his analogues connections and just cherry pick what I recognize from his wealth of knowledge. What I badly put in three sentences, he would perhaps take 3 chapters to say the same thing. That is not a complaint. It is just showing the complexity of his delivery as compared to mine. Our thinking is close on many issues.

Regards
DL

Good.  Please run away together and stop bothering us.  You can whisper sweet sentences and paragraphs to each other.  Ask Munch how that works...
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 11, 2017, 02:50:01 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Good.  Please run away together and stop bothering us.  You can whisper sweet sentences and paragraphs to each other.  Ask Munch how that works...

Thanks for that disingenuous reply dick wad.

I am a net bully but usually do not show such undeserved ignorance.

Regards
DL


Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:53:36 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Thanks for that disingenuous reply dick wad.

I am a net bully but usually do not show such undeserved ignorance.

Regards
DL

But I recognized you for it from the start, and you deserved it.  Thank me later...
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:28:50 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I should hesitate to say I dislike new theists since I am just celebrating my anniversary here.  But I do. 

The discussion is getting so weird I can't tell theists from the atheists lately.

Awesome.  When you can no longer tell, or care, if your fur is on the outside or the inside ... you have arrived!  Bear-Zen.

GIA and I are very close to secular.  Neither of us fit the Evangelical Christian bug-bear that some of you are so familiar with.  GIA would say ... choose an ideal god, as an idol, to pull you forward to better things.  Fight against lesser idols.  I would say, no idols for me (Jewish side of me).  Look at life as it is, with all the horror.  Like Rick in Rick & Morty.  In other words, GIA is a psychology based progressive ... without the epistemological fundamentalism.  He is pragmatic in his way, not an ideologue.

I am just like him, psychology based, but not a progressive, a realist.  There are good days, there are bad days ... but don't overestimate how much you can force reality to give you more good days, because you are just road kill on the highway of life.  Just because things seem to be better now than 500 years ago, is just prejudice.  Just because I would tend to prefer my own time, isn't proof either.  We get the cards we are dealt.  Put your shekels into the pot and play, or fold.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:31:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If atheism is a belief system, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

And it is a shitty hobby too ;-)

Actually anything you or I think, is bias, is prejudice ... it is worse than a belief system.  At least a belief system has some order (system) to it.  Real facts have no order, it is chaos, other than the dragons in the cloud shape view of reality that most people think is real.  Cosmos is the worst title for any show ever ... humans disprove it.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:36:05 PM
Gia - I reject all things supernatural.

I reject the fake dualities of the human mind, if I had to give a label to reality, I call it supernatural, but that isn't how modern people take the term, it is how ancient people took the term.  Ancient people didn't have a word for natural, or a word for religion.  "Natural" was a term invented by atheists, to set into opposition to "supernatural".  I don't accept this gambit.  Ancients simply said what they were doing was "life" ... not "religion" vs "everything else as defined by modern schizoids".

GIA - When both sides hate you, you will know you are on the right path.

You are ready to leave the Shao-lin temple.  Just don't be the star on a syndicated TV show ;-)

Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:36:50 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Thanks for that disingenuous reply dick wad.

I am a net bully but usually do not show such undeserved ignorance.

Regards
DL

Calm down .. only Cavebear is allowed to bully.
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:37:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You should talk to Baruch more often.  Feel free to confuse each other.  However, by my merely saying that, Baruch will probably have to agree with you.

We are old friends.  Been on two previous forums together.  But never at the same time .. hmmm
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 12, 2017, 10:15:51 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are ready to leave the Shao-lin temple.  Just don't be the star on a syndicated TV show ;-)

Given that opportunity, I think I would take it with the caveat that I would remain anonymous as I would want to be seen as every man and every woman and stay without an image so that the words would matter and be the focus and not my inherited handsomeness.   

Like the old Gods, I would want to be seen as androgynous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0

I wish to rule the world, like all people should. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxX-QOV9tI

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Greatest I am on October 12, 2017, 10:24:19 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Gia - I reject all things supernatural.

I reject the fake dualities of the human mind, if I had to give a label to reality, I call it supernatural, but that isn't how modern people take the term, it is how ancient people took the term.  Ancient people didn't have a word for natural, or a word for religion.  "Natural" was a term invented by atheists, to set into opposition to "supernatural".  I don't accept this gambit.  Ancients simply said what they were doing was "life" ... not "religion" vs "everything else as defined by modern schizoids".


Words of wisdom.

We need to return to the older wiser way of thinking of God.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

God should remain something or someone that is sough, but if found, held close, but rejected the moment a better view or ideal is found.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op
Post by: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 01:19:36 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Words of wisdom.

We need to return to the older wiser way of thinking of God.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

God should remain something or someone that is sough, but if found, held close, but rejected the moment a better view or ideal is found.

Regards
DL

Do you even realize that none of that made any sense whatsoever?