In a talk by Dawkins, he encouraged people to blaspheme. It's, he said, a victim-less offence.
I agree with him on blasphemy. Blasphemy can be quite delightful and meaningful. Once I went cycling with a friend when a storm suddenly raged. We went to a bus shelter to wait out the storm. As the thunder roared, I started to blaspheme God, Jesus, etc. My friend seemed unperturbed. And then it dawned on me that my target of blasphemy meant nothing to him. He was a Muslim. So I started to blaspheme Allah and Muhammad so badly that I'm sure the cutthroats would have killed me many times over and suicide bombers (if they had known what I said) would have blown themselves up by the hundreds. My friend suddenly turned pale. Just then there was a loud thunder and I saw that he was shaking. He told me that I would get both of us killed. I asked him why? Is it because Allah drank so much alcohol that he couldn't aim his lightning at me alone and somehow he'd miss me and hit my friend? Or perhaps Allah has Parkinson's Disease? Or perhaps Muhammad was busy buggering Allah? I went on in that vein for a long time. By then, my friend was squatting down and shielding his head with his hands, so sure was he that we'd both be struck by the lightning of Allah. After some time, it became clear that nothing was happening. The rain had stopped and the sun began to peep out of the clouds. As we continued cycling, my friend said to me, 'I wonder if God enjoyed it.' I asked him what was it God enjoyed? His reply stunned me. He said, 'Being buggered by Muhammad'.
You see, what has happened is this - blasphemy has shocked my friend initially into thinking that we'd both be killed by Allah because the blasphemy was quite bad and provocative. But nothing happened. There was a novel I once read by a Nobel laureate for literature, Czeslaw Milosz. A few boys stole the Eucharist wafer and took it to the woods. One of them took out a knife and stabbed the wafer. They looked at the clouds expecting lightning to emerge from them. But nothing happened. The fact that nothing happens never fails to explain most eloquently that God or Allah doesn't exist. Somehow this seems more effective than an intellectual argument.
So, blaspheme away. Think of the worst things to say about each God and say it with glee. The result is always good.
Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 12:07:37 PM
In a talk by Dawkins, he encouraged people to blaspheme. It's, he said, a victim-less offence.
I agree with him on blasphemy. Blasphemy can be quite delightful and meaningful. Once I went cycling with a friend when a storm suddenly raged. We went to a bus shelter to wait out the storm. As the thunder roared, I started to blaspheme God, Jesus, etc. My friend seemed unperturbed. And then it dawned on me that my target of blasphemy meant nothing to him. He was a Muslim. So I started to blaspheme Allah and Muhammad so badly that I'm sure the cutthroats would have killed me many times over and suicide bombers (if they had known what I said) would have blown themselves up by the hundreds. My friend suddenly turned pale. Just then there was a loud thunder and I saw that he was shaking. He told me that I would get both of us killed. I asked him why? Is it because Allah drank so much alcohol that he couldn't aim his lightning at me alone and somehow he'd miss me and hit my friend? Or perhaps Allah has Parkinson's Disease? Or perhaps Muhammad was busy buggering Allah? I went on in that vein for a long time. By then, my friend was squatting down and shielding his head with his hands, so sure was he that we'd both be struck by the lightning of Allah. After some time, it became clear that nothing was happening. The rain had stopped and the sun began to peep out of the clouds. As we continued cycling, my friend said to me, 'I wonder if God enjoyed it.' I asked him what was it God enjoyed? His reply stunned me. He said, 'Being buggered by Muhammad'.
You see, what has happened is this - blasphemy has shocked my friend initially into thinking that we'd both be killed by Allah because the blasphemy was quite bad and provocative. But nothing happened. There was a novel I once read by a Nobel laureate for literature, Czeslaw Milosz. A few boys stole the Eucharist wafer and took it to the woods. One of them took out a knife and stabbed the wafer. They looked at the clouds expecting lightning to emerge from them. But nothing happened. The fact that nothing happens never fails to explain most eloquently that God or Allah doesn't exist. Somehow this seems more effective than an intellectual argument.
So, blaspheme away. Think of the worst things to say about each God and say it with glee. The result is always good.
I smile at the story, understanding it.
My best friend most of my adult life was Jewish. Ya gotta have someone, I knew no other atheists, and Jews aren't big on converting.
But he never quite understood my atheism. One day, approaching a traffic light, I said "stay green, stay green", and he interpreted that as a sign of prayer. I tried to disabuse him of the notion saying it was "a hope the random events of the universe would operate in my favor".
*I* was just hoping the light would stay green long enough to get through it. And he did contemplate what I meant. But I suspect he forever after thought it was a prayer because that's what HE understood.
1. Is that really what most people are doing when they express a hope that something goes their way?
2. Can people really be that stupid to think a deity would act on such a minor thing?
I think about that event often because it was so bizarre from my viewpoint. And, BTW, he is no longer a friend.
Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 12:07:37 PM
In a talk by Dawkins, he encouraged people to blaspheme. It's, he said, a victim-less offence.
I agree with him on blasphemy. Blasphemy can be quite delightful and meaningful.
Yeah, it's good to get over that absurd taboo. Words don't hurt fictional beings, nor do said beings attempt divine retribution. That's an important milestone to hit for a person.
But after a while, blasphemy sorta loses its charm. The next stage is a cold indifference. It's just not an important enough issue to concern oneself with. It'd be a completely dead issue if it weren't for believers seeking to harm blasphemers on behalf of their cosmic overlord's feelings. Wow, that's a strange sentence to write, though I suppose we live on a strange planet.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 01, 2017, 12:36:07 PM
Yeah, it's good to get over that absurd taboo. Words don't hurt fictional beings, nor do said beings attempt divine retribution. That's an important milestone to hit for a person.
But after a while, blasphemy sorta loses its charm. The next stage is a cold indifference. It's just not an important enough issue to concern oneself with. It'd be a completely dead issue if it weren't for believers seeking to harm blasphemers on behalf of their cosmic overlord's feelings. Wow, that's a strange sentence to write, though I suppose we live on a strange planet.
Yeah, you know you are over religion when you get a splinter or stub a toe and it changes from "goddammit" to "oh crap"...
I still use religious language from time to time. Force of habit.
The difference now is that it's all 100% figurative, the literal meaning is practically unthinkable. "God damn it" is just a fancy way of expressing frustration, not literally asking for a divine curse on something.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 01, 2017, 12:55:11 PM
I still use religious language from time to time. Force of habit.
The difference now is that it's all 100% figurative, the literal meaning is practically unthinkable. "God damn it" is just a fancy way of expressing frustration, not literally asking for a divine curse on something.
Same here. But try to convince a theist acquaintance of that! LOL!
Cavebear - "a hope the random events of the universe would operate in my favor"
You were or are, a cultural Pagan. You believe in fate, luck, goddess Fortuna, goddess Tyche, goddess Tanit (all goddesses of business people). Nothing wrong with that, just don't sacrifice any of your cats on your pagan altar ... it would make me sad. Gamblers and businessmen take risks (ship grain in ancient times from Tyre to Alexandria). This is why business insurance was invented in Holland 400 years ago, to spread the risk, to goose goddess Fortuna. Also "caveat emptor" ... Hermes/Mercury wasn't the god of travelers and thieves for nothing.
Perhaps most Christians 1600 years ago were cultural Christians. They didn't convert ... their Emperor or king did it for them. They weren't expected to agree, just obey. Personal conversion didn't happen until the Reformation, and then only with some Protestant churches (the ones that are closet Catholic, like the Anglican, aren't Evangelical).
Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 12:07:37 PM
So, blaspheme away. Think of the worst things to say about each God and say it with glee. The result is always good.
There's a blasphemy challenge on You Tube, from more than a decade ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7QVbJnSPQE
I blaspheme every chance I get.
(http://i.imgur.com/V7qJEWX.gif)
I try to avoid god language when I talk -- but when I lose my temper or get startled into an exclamation, I do fall back on the old standbys, starting with "goddammit!" and rapidly ascending the scale until I get to "Jesus H motherfucking Christ on a popsicle stick!"
Quote from: trdsf on October 03, 2017, 04:25:37 PM
I try to avoid god language when I talk -- but when I lose my temper or get startled into an exclamation, I do fall back on the old standbys, starting with "goddammit!" and rapidly ascending the scale until I get to "Jesus H motherfucking Christ on a popsicle stick!"
Does the H stand for Holy?
Doesn't the H stand for Jesus' middle name, Hogan? Or is it Hortense?
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 03, 2017, 07:51:14 PM
Doesn't the H stand for Jesus' middle name, Hogan? Or is it Hortense?
Good Lord! You are wrong. Don't you know your theology? It's not Hogan or Hortense. It's 'Humbug'.
Quote from: St Truth on October 03, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
Good Lord! You are wrong. Don't you know your theology? It's not Hogan or Hortense. It's 'Humbug'.
From Wikipedia, "the most widely accepted derivation is from the divine monogram of Christian symbolism. The symbol, derived from the first three letters of the Greek name of Jesus (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ), is transliterated iota-eta-sigma, which can look like IHS, ΙΗϹ (with lunate sigma), JHS or JHC "
Quote from: St Truth on October 03, 2017, 07:32:17 PM
Does the H stand for Holy?
It stands for Harold. As in "Our father, who art in heaven, Harold be thy name..."
Blasphemy is a victimless crime. :=)
Quote from: St Truth on October 03, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
Good Lord! You are wrong. Don't you know your theology? It's not Hogan or Hortense. It's 'Humbug'.
H for Haploid.
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 09:55:55 AM
It stands for Harold. As in "Our father, who art in heaven, Harold be thy name..."
Sounds like "Gladly The Cross-eyed Bear". ;)
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 09:59:37 AM
Blasphemy is a victimless crime. :=)
Of course. There is no deity to care about words. But churches get hit by lightening. When has the American Atheist HQ been struck?
There is an American Atheist HQ?
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:08:46 AM
There is an American Atheist HQ?
Of course:
American Atheists
225 Cristiani St.
Cranford, NJ 07016
Wonders never cease.
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:17:50 AM
Wonders never cease.
Well, I've been an "American Atheist" Life Member since before Madelyn Murray and family was killed by the employee nutcase in 1995. You should read about it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair)
I was an atheist since April 1944. ;=)
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:26:02 AM
I was an atheist since April 1944. ;=)
How old ARE you, LOL? You got me beat by by almost 20 years and I realized I was an atheist about age 12 (1962). Must be enjoying your 80s by now. And I thought I was one the old guys...
I will have to go easier on you. Can't cause a heart attack on one the originals... ;)
QuoteHow old ARE you, LOL?
74 in April. With 2 cardiac arrests and a quadruple cardiac operation 4 years ago + type 2 diabetes.
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:40:57 AM
74 in April. With 2 cardiac arrests and a quadruple cardiac operation 4 years ago + type 2 diabetes.
Ah well, you are claiming atheist from birth. I count mine from when I understood what it meant. You have 6 years on me (1950 that way) . But I'll respect that. Until I forget, LOL!
QuoteAh well, you are claiming atheist from birth.
So are you.
Your sig:
Atheist born, atheist bred. And when I die, atheist dead!
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:57:13 AM
So are you.
Your sig: Atheist born, atheist bred. And when I die, atheist dead!
"Nailed" LOL! But I meant more about when I rationally realized it. True, I was never a theist, but there were years when the specific concept of "atheism" had not yet firmed in my mind.
But I'll tell you a brief story. My Mom was a lapsed Catholic who married a vague protestant. Mom's parents loved Dad but hated his irreligion. One day when I was about 7, Grampa took me for a walk. Who doesn't like a walk with a Grampa?
He led me to a church. I felt cheated. I didn't like the place at all. It seemed all crazy. But I didn't know why until a few years later when I began to be able to think about things more clearly.
You're good, I like that.
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 10:40:57 AM
74 in April. With 2 cardiac arrests and a quadruple cardiac operation 4 years ago + type 2 diabetes.
Wow, you are even older than my grandpa. My grandpa has diabetes too. A lot of old people have that. It's something to do with all the sweets you've eaten all your life. My grandpa has to take medication for his diabetes and it's a lifelong thing. Apparently there is no cure for diabetes. You just have to control it.
Diabetes can be caused by excessive sugar intake, but also by low insulin production to process sugar. That last is hard because the only energy supply to the brain (so I've read) is sugar.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Diabetes can be caused by excessive sugar intake, but also by low insulin production to process sugar. That last is hard because the only energy supply to the brain (so I've read) is sugar.
I like anything that's sweet but my mum tries to get me to eat healthier food. I don't like vegetables except for chips (potato is a vegetable).I can live on just chips with vinegar. I can do without salt though. If I'm eating in a restaurant and I'm forced to choose my vegetable dish, I always go for bubble and squeak. My mum doesn't count that as vegetable but it is and it's the only really delicious vegetable. LOL
Quote from: St Truth on October 04, 2017, 12:03:31 PM
I like anything that's sweet but my mum tries to get me to eat healthier food. I don't like vegetables except for chips (potato is a vegetable).I can live on just chips with vinegar. I can do without salt though. If I'm eating in a restaurant and I'm forced to choose my vegetable dish, I always go for bubble and squeak. My mum doesn't count that as vegetable but it is and it's the only really delicious vegetable. LOL
Forgive my smile... I had a longtime friend who thought the french fries or onion slice on his hamburger was "his vegatable requirement. And he usually didn't even those.
Try a good chinese restaurant and experience veggies cooked "just crisp". My mom boiled every vegetable beyond recognition, and English cooking is similar. I always loved going to any chinese place as a kid. When I went to college, I discovered steamed veggies and raw and tossed salads (in my own room - the dining hall cooked like Mom did).
When I got my first apartment and a steamer tray, I never looked back. Mom knew to make spaghetti and meatballs when a I visited. The boiled-for-15-minutes brussel sprouts never got touched.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
Forgive my smile... I had a longtime friend who thought the french fries or onion slice on his hamburger was "his vegatable requirement. And he usually didn't even those.
Try a good chinese restaurant and experience veggies cooked "just crisp". My mom boiled every vegetable beyond recognition, and English cooking is similar. I always loved going to any chinese place as a kid. When I went to college, I discovered steamed veggies and raw and tossed salads (in my own room - the dining hall cooked like Mom did).
When I got my first apartment and a steamer tray, I never looked back. Mom knew to make spaghetti and meatballs when a I visited. The boiled-for-15-minutes brussel sprouts never got touched.
Yeah, the Midwestern way is similar -- boil 'em until you can't count 'em anymore.
I halve and roast sprouts with balsamic vinegar, rosemary, and orange zest. Man, that's good.
It may genuinely be changing preferences over time. Over the last ten years, I've picked up an appreciation for the so-called 'granny vegetables' -- parsnips, rutabagas, turnips -- and learned to like vegetables that I historically haven't, like asparagus. But it
is all in the preparation. Steamed asparagus is so much better than boiled rope.
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 12:41:47 PM
Yeah, the Midwestern way is similar -- boil 'em until you can't count 'em anymore.
I halve and roast sprouts with balsamic vinegar, rosemary, and orange zest. Man, that's good.
It may genuinely be changing preferences over time. Over the last ten years, I've picked up an appreciation for the so-called 'granny vegetables' -- parsnips, rutabagas, turnips -- and learned to like vegetables that I historically haven't, like asparagus. But it is all in the preparation. Steamed asparagus is so much better than boiled rope.
I smoked slabs of pork butt the other day. Cubed them up for pork stew. But I also smoked some potatoes and corn on the cob. Best potatoes I've even had! And the corn was good. Try some baked beets. Peel after cooled and reheat later with butter and some vinegar. Damn those are GOOD!
How did we get from blasphemy to smoked pork butts?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 12:46:41 PM
I smoked slabs of pork butt the other day. Cubed them up for pork stew. But I also smoked some potatoes and corn on the cob. Best potatoes I've even had! And the corn was good. Try some baked beets. Peel after cooled and reheat later with butter and some vinegar. Damn those are GOOD!
We do beets sliced and oven baked with the tiniest dash of cinnamon and chili powder. Just enough to let you know there's something there.
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 12:53:06 PM
We do beets sliced and oven baked with the tiniest dash of cinnamon and chili powder. Just enough to let you know there's something there.
Cinnamon? I'll have to try that. I have some in the fridge now. Do you peel them before or after baking?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 12:55:48 PM
Cinnamon? I'll have to try that. I have some in the fridge now. Do you peel them before or after baking?
It's been a while since we made them, so I really don't recall off the top of my head. Either/or should be fine.
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 01:09:41 PM
It's been a while since we made them, so I really don't recall off the top of my head. Either/or should be fine.
I think peeling them after baking gets the hard skin off which kept the insides moist.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 01:20:47 PM
I think peeling them after baking gets the hard skin off which kept the insides moist.
Bake in the oven with the skin, (washed) wrapping in aluminum foil to retain moisture, and easier to peel. (the skin just rubs off)
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 02:05:08 PM
Bake in the oven with the skin, (washed) wrapping in aluminum foil to retain moisture, and easier to peel. (the skin just rubs off)
Did that. Works. Beets are under-appreciated. Don't panic when you poop in the morning though... LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 01:20:47 PM
I think peeling them after baking gets the hard skin off which kept the insides moist.
We probably peeled them first since they were being roasted -- got to get that Maillard reaction going. :)
Yeah, I think that was it -- peel, slice, dust, roast, eat.
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 02:31:03 PM
We probably peeled them first since they were being roasted -- got to get that Maillard reaction going. :)
Yeah, I think that was it -- peel, slice, dust, roast, eat.
Ever smoke-cooked a potato?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 02:33:09 PM
Ever smoke-cooked a potato?
No, but that sounds good -- I assume in a smoker. I need to get one of those some day...
Quote from: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 03:24:20 PM
No, but that sounds good -- I assume in a smoker. I need to get one of those some day...
There are dedicated cabinet style smokers, but I like the offset kind. If you set the grates right, you can grill a steak or 2 on them directly over the charcoal. You have to buy a couple extra grates though.
Delmonico steak grilled is great. Slabs of boston butt slow smoked is better. If I was on a desert island, I would want a lot of apple trees and a lot of pigs, LOL!
Quote from: trdsf on October 03, 2017, 04:25:37 PM
I try to avoid god language when I talk -- but when I lose my temper or get startled into an exclamation, I do fall back on the old standbys, starting with "goddammit!" and rapidly ascending the scale until I get to "Jesus H motherfucking Christ on a popsicle stick!"
Wow--and I thought I was reaching the bottom (or actually, the pinnacle) when I uttered, "Jesus H. fucking Christ! But adding 'motherfucker' and 'on a popsicle stick!' is genius. I LIKE it!
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 04, 2017, 06:16:16 PM
Wow--and I thought I was reaching the bottom (or actually, the pinnacle) when I uttered, "Jesus H. fucking Christ! But adding 'motherfucker' and 'on a popsicle stick!' is genius. I LIKE it!
The 'popsicle stick' part comes from my ex-partner. He was creative that way.
Less creatively, I added the 'motherfucking'. :D
Quote from: pr126 on October 04, 2017, 02:05:08 PM
Bake in the oven with the skin, (washed) wrapping in aluminum foil to retain moisture, and easier to peel. (the skin just rubs off)
The skin has all the nutrients ;-(
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 10:06:04 AM
Of course. There is no deity to care about words. But churches get hit by lightening. When has the American Atheist HQ been struck?
One of the churches my wife preached at, was hit by lightning. But a few years after we left. Went down the metal steeple, and into the kitchen where it did some burn damage. Turns out, the church had a metal steeple because a few years earlier, one of the elderly ladies insisted that a church didn't look right without a steeple.
Quote from: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
The skin has all the nutrients ;-(
For many vegetables, yes. But not most root crops. They are the same skin to core.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 05:07:07 AM
For many vegetables, yes. But not most root crops. They are the same skin to core.
Skin all the way down? Are you fur on the inside as well as the outside?
Quote from: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 01:45:53 PM
Skin all the way down? Are you fur on the inside as well as the outside?
I didn't say "skin all the way down". Root crops, being all evolved stems and roots. are mostly the same throughout though. It is the fruits that are variable. And "fruits" means any enlarged plant ovary. Like beans and tomatoes.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 09, 2017, 12:06:36 AM
I didn't say "skin all the way down". Root crops, being all evolved stems and roots. are mostly the same throughout though. It is the fruits that are variable. And "fruits" means any enlarged plant ovary. Like beans and tomatoes.
Too much sexy. Put it in the Adult section. Next you will be telling me that plants not only have ovaries, they have other sexy stuff to, and believe in inter-species sex with bees ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on October 09, 2017, 09:53:54 AM
Too much sexy. Put it in the Adult section. Next you will be telling me that plants not only have ovaries, they have other sexy stuff to, and believe in inter-species sex with bees ;-)
Actually, "yes". Put THAT in your smoke and pipe it. LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 05:45:06 AM
Actually, "yes". Put THAT in your smoke and pipe it. LOL!
Yes, LOL. Stop being so sensitive. I am not insulting you. I am playing with you. Since we both keep cats, you should like that. I like you, as a scratching post.
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 08:04:29 PM
Yes, LOL. Stop being so sensitive. I am not insulting you. I am playing with you. Since we both keep cats, you should like that. I like you, as a scratching post.
Well THAT is entirely different. You think I am the scratching post and I think you are the poop outside the litter box.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 05:32:32 AM
Well THAT is entirely different. You think I am the scratching post and I think you are the poop outside the litter box.
Dogs like to eat cat poop ... hence my 2000+ likes.
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 06:52:08 AM
Dogs like to eat cat poop ... hence my 2000+ likes.
2000+ likes? Not from here for sure.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 10:25:54 AM
2000+ likes? Not from here for sure.
And in any case, quantity doesn't mean quality. If it's 2,000 likes out of 20,000 posts, that's only 10%. If it were 2,000 likes out of 2,500 posts, that might be different.
Quote from: trdsf on October 18, 2017, 10:39:44 AM
And in any case, quantity doesn't mean quality. If it's 2,000 likes out of 20,000 posts, that's only 10%. If it were 2,000 likes out of 2,500 posts, that might be different.
I think what he is suggesting is that, because he gets likes elsewhere, they must mean something here.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
I think what he is suggesting is that, because he gets likes elsewhere, they must mean something here.
At last glance, he has 2300+ likes right here on AF. The data is what the data is.
Of course, as a standalone number, it lacks context. We lack the average rate of likes per message across all users or even across the regularly active users. At a bare minimum, in order to be useful as a metric it has to be taken against the user's total number of posts, not as a disconnected datum.
It's like asking "How are you?" and getting the answer "Five!" with no further clarification. Five what? Five out of five? Five out of ten? Five percent? Five minutes to live?
It's just a dilatory tactic, really, taking advantage of an almost instinctive innumeracy in the face of a number for which we cannot form an immediate meaningful visualization.
If I hand someone a coffee cup and say there are five marbles in there, they can tell at a glance if there are. If I hand them a coffee cup full of marbles and give them any number that's not unreasonable on the face of it, it will be accepted as a reasonable estimate and, more importantly, the number will not be challenged by the person without a good reason to challenge it. If I tell you a cup full of marbles has 'two' or 'two hundred thousand', both are obviously incorrect at a glance, even without knowing the actual count.
But if I tell you 'one hundred and fifty seven', that
isn't obviously incorrect. And most people are willing to shrug and go 'okay', even though it may actually be three hundred, or there may be an obstruction invisible underneath them and the count is only forty. And once I've said 157
and you've provisionally accepted it, you'll reject 300 and 40 as being 'obviously' too many or too few, even though one or the other answer may be the right one.
The most correct response here is to look up the formulæ for the volume of a sphere, and the volume of a cylinder, and -- assuming the marbles are all essentially similar -- you can get an estimation of your own that's going to be damn close to the actual count without just having to take a number at face value. It may turn out that 157 is a meaningful number,
and you would then have a reason
why it's a good number. There is a context for the claim.
By analogy, the correct thing to do with the claim of 2000+ is to look for its context, which would be all members who have a comparable number of posts without regard to likes, and all members who have a comparable number of likes without regard to posts, and then you can draw a conclusion about whether its inference -- that the claimant writes meaningful and appreciated posts via the metaphor "dogs like to eat cat poop" -- holds merit.
Quote from: trdsf on October 18, 2017, 01:28:38 PM
At last glance, he has 2300+ likes right here on AF. The data is what the data is.
Of course, as a standalone number, it lacks context. We lack the average rate of likes per message across all users or even across the regularly active users. At a bare minimum, in order to be useful as a metric it has to be taken against the user's total number of posts, not as a disconnected datum.
It's like asking "How are you?" and getting the answer "Five!" with no further clarification. Five what? Five out of five? Five out of ten? Five percent? Five minutes to live?
It's just a dilatory tactic, really, taking advantage of an almost instinctive innumeracy in the face of a number for which we cannot form an immediate meaningful visualization.
If I hand someone a coffee cup and say there are five marbles in there, they can tell at a glance if there are. If I hand them a coffee cup full of marbles and give them any number that's not unreasonable on the face of it, it will be accepted as a reasonable estimate and, more importantly, the number will not be challenged by the person without a good reason to challenge it. If I tell you a cup full of marbles has 'two' or 'two hundred thousand', both are obviously incorrect at a glance, even without knowing the actual count.
But if I tell you 'one hundred and fifty seven', that isn't obviously incorrect. And most people are willing to shrug and go 'okay', even though it may actually be three hundred, or there may be an obstruction invisible underneath them and the count is only forty. And once I've said 157 and you've provisionally accepted it, you'll reject 300 and 40 as being 'obviously' too many or too few, even though one or the other answer may be the right one.
The most correct response here is to look up the formulæ for the volume of a sphere, and the volume of a cylinder, and -- assuming the marbles are all essentially similar -- you can get an estimation of your own that's going to be damn close to the actual count without just having to take a number at face value. It may turn out that 157 is a meaningful number, and you would then have a reason why it's a good number. There is a context for the claim.
By analogy, the correct thing to do with the claim of 2000+ is to look for its context, which would be all members who have a comparable number of posts without regard to likes, and all members who have a comparable number of likes without regard to posts, and then you can draw a conclusion about whether its inference -- that the claimant writes meaningful and appreciated posts via the metaphor "dogs like to eat cat poop" -- holds merit.
AWESOME!
I might look at the top layer of marbles and project the number through an imagined cup. but I read every word with interest. Your writing was worth the effort.
I never thought to look up my "likes".
Quote from: trdsf on October 18, 2017, 10:39:44 AM
And in any case, quantity doesn't mean quality. If it's 2,000 likes out of 20,000 posts, that's only 10%. If it were 2,000 likes out of 2,500 posts, that might be different.
No ... just that an echo chamber isn't the best way to determine how things are. Every forum is an echo chamber. It is ironic to get that many likes here, when I am a pet theist. But then most people here like pets ;-) I also give out a lot of likes.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 01:54:21 PM
AWESOME!
I might look at the top layer of marbles and project the number through an imagined cup. but I read every word with interest. Your writing was worth the effort.
I never thought to look up my "likes".
You are a curmudgeon, you don't even like your own posts. Are you going to do a flip for us and become narcissist?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
I think what he is suggesting is that, because he gets likes elsewhere, they must mean something here.
You are so wrong, oh Legend In My Own Mind.
Quote from: Baruch on October 19, 2017, 07:13:39 AM
No ... just that an echo chamber isn't the best way to determine how things are. Every forum is an echo chamber. It is ironic to get that many likes here, when I am a pet theist. But then most people here like pets ;-) I also give out a lot of likes.
I do consider you the one most knowledgeable of the Bible, historical context for the text, as well as the languages it was written in. An expert on fiction, perhaps, but it is quite entertaining when Christians come here and try to act like they're smarter than you.
Nearly forty years ago poolside at my apartment complex amongst a group and we had some clouds and a few bolts of lightning, somebody said some kind of "god is angry" crap so I grabbed a aluminum umbrella and stood on the diving board, "god does't have the balls to hit me with lightning".
Now I am convinced that the average xian has a great deal of uncertainty and doubt, they know prayer really hardly ever works, and yet when I shouted that line, 10 of the 15 or so there, literally fell over chairs and tables trying to escape the confines of the pool area. I laughed my but off.
Quote from: aitm on October 19, 2017, 12:21:51 PM
Nearly forty years ago poolside at my apartment complex amongst a group and we had some clouds and a few bolts of lightning, somebody said some kind of "god is angry" crap so I grabbed a aluminum umbrella and stood on the diving board, "god does't have the balls to hit me with lightning".
Now I am convinced that the average xian has a great deal of uncertainty and doubt, they know prayer really hardly ever works, and yet when I shouted that line, 10 of the 15 or so there, literally fell over chairs and tables trying to escape the confines of the pool area. I laughed my but off.
Don't repeat that at home, kids ... OSHA won't approve.
Quote from: aitm on October 19, 2017, 12:21:51 PM
Nearly forty years ago poolside at my apartment complex amongst a group and we had some clouds and a few bolts of lightning, somebody said some kind of "god is angry" crap so I grabbed a aluminum umbrella and stood on the diving board, "god does't have the balls to hit me with lightning".
Now I am convinced that the average xian has a great deal of uncertainty and doubt, they know prayer really hardly ever works, and yet when I shouted that line, 10 of the 15 or so there, literally fell over chairs and tables trying to escape the confines of the pool area. I laughed my but off.
Reminds me of a guy in my fraternity in '81 who, during a thunderstorm, climbed out on the roof of the frat house with a beer in one hand and a bong in the other and sat there yelling "I DARE YOU!"
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2017, 12:48:50 PM
Reminds me of a guy in my fraternity in '81 who, during a thunderstorm, climbed out on the roof of the frat house with a beer in one hand and a bong in the other and sat there yelling "I DARE YOU!"
The legless friend of Forrest Gump? He did that, while on the mast of the shrimp boat. Got the stupidity out of his system, he did.
Jesus H motherfucking Christ
Quote from: St Truth on October 03, 2017, 07:32:17 PM
Does the H stand for Holy?
I think in this situation it stands for Horny
If Mohammed was buggering Allah and he thinks he’s gonna get 7 virgins every night, he must be horny too.
Quote from: fencerider on October 22, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
Jesus H motherfucking ChristI think in this situation it stands for Horny
If Mohammed was buggering Allah and he thinks he’s gonna get 7 virgins every night, he must be horny too.
In Kabbalah, sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. Most anti-sex behavior is motivated by misogyny and misandry. In Kabbalah mythology, G-d and Shekinah get it on every Friday night, that is what makes it both holy and sexy.
Quote from: aitm on October 19, 2017, 12:21:51 PM
Nearly forty years ago poolside at my apartment complex amongst a group and we had some clouds and a few bolts of lightning, somebody said some kind of "god is angry" crap so I grabbed a aluminum umbrella and stood on the diving board, "god does't have the balls to hit me with lightning".
Now I am convinced that the average xian has a great deal of uncertainty and doubt, they know prayer really hardly ever works, and yet when I shouted that line, 10 of the 15 or so there, literally fell over chairs and tables trying to escape the confines of the pool area. I laughed my but off.
I am reminded of when Lee Trevino was called off the course because of lightening and he held a 1 iron over his head because "even God can't hit a 1 iron".
BTW, I can. But I can't hit a wood (or even a metal "wood") worth a damn. And my chip shots are pretty random...
And speaking of golf, I love the joke about the Saudi Arabian guy saying "Darn, I landed in the grass trap".
BTW, do you recall the one about Sam Snead saying the greens were so slick he marked his ball with a dime and it slid off"?