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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: fencerider on September 30, 2017, 11:04:56 PM

Title: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on September 30, 2017, 11:04:56 PM
During the crisis in Puerto Rico Trump has shown an unparalleled level of incompetence. While the people are in survival mode after the wind of 3 hurricanes, the best Trump can do is say they should be helping themselves. Do we really want an ignoramus in the Whie House? The Constitution gives Congress authority to impeach the president for any reason; no crime necessary.

If the Republitards in Congress are to yellow-bellied to do the right thing and get rid of the worst president in our history, shouldn't we start recalling our representatives.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 01:30:19 AM
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During the crisis in Puerto Rico Trump has shown an unparalleled level of incompetence. While the people are in survival mode after the wind of 3 hurricanes, the best Trump can do is say they should be helping themselves. Do we really want an ignoramus in the Whie House? The Constitution gives Congress authority to impeach the president for any reason; no crime necessary.

If the Republitards in Congress are to yellow-bellied to do the right thing and get rid of the worst president in our history, shouldn't we start recalling our representatives.

The best comment I heard on TV this week was not whether Trump knew Puerto Rico was a part of the US last year or last week, but whether he understands it even NOW. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 01, 2017, 01:32:26 AM
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The best comment I heard on TV this week was not whether Trump knew Puerto Rico was a part of the US last year or last week, but whether he understands it even NOW. 

Ouch.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2017, 10:50:13 AM
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The best comment I heard on TV this week was not whether Trump knew Puerto Rico was a part of the US last year or last week, but whether he understands it even NOW.

Unclear actually.  We gave the people citizenship in 1917, to prevent the German navy from occupying it.  But it is a commonwealth, same as Philippines was shortly before WW II ... so no, PR isn't part of the US, it isn't a territory like American Samoa.  PR terrorists who tried to assassinate President Truman didn't think it was.  Is John McCain an American, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 10:55:15 AM
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Unclear actually.  We gave the people citizenship in 1917, to prevent the German navy from occupying it.  But it is a commonwealth, same as Philippines was shortly before WW II ... so no, PR isn't part of the US, it isn't a territory like American Samoa.  PR terrorists who tried to assassinate President Truman didn't think it was.  Is John McCain an American, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone?

I offer you an informatice quote from Wikipedia:

"Puerto Rican citizenship was first legislated by the United States Congress in Article 7 of the Foraker Act of 1900 and later recognized in the Constitution of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rican citizenship existed before the U.S. takeover of the islands of Puerto Rico and continued afterwards. Its affirmative standing was also recognized before and after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in 1952.  Puerto Rican citizenship was recognized by the United States Congress in the early twentieth century and continues unchanged after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2017, 03:08:25 PM
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I offer you an informatice quote from Wikipedia:

"Puerto Rican citizenship was first legislated by the United States Congress in Article 7 of the Foraker Act of 1900 and later recognized in the Constitution of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rican citizenship existed before the U.S. takeover of the islands of Puerto Rico and continued afterwards. Its affirmative standing was also recognized before and after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in 1952.  Puerto Rican citizenship was recognized by the United States Congress in the early twentieth century and continues unchanged after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico."

Error Will Robinson ... we took over Puerto Rico in 1898 in the Spanish American War.  So they were US citizens before the US takeover?  I think they mean after the Commonwealth was established in 1948-52 by President Truman.  Before that the President ruled Puerto Rico as the King of Spain had done previously.

"and the Jones Act of 1917, which made Puerto Ricans U.S. citizens" also from Wikipedia.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on October 02, 2017, 02:30:32 AM
I wasnt talking about citizenship. Now that you brought it up I will have to look up citizenship for Puerto Ricans. I don't know the details of the relationship of the U.S. and Puerto Rico, but clearly if we are going to call them a territory we have an obligation to provide emergency assistance for the major disaster they are now in.

Maybe people can overlook Trump being a dumbass while nobody is getting hurt, but nobody should be overlook Trump's behavior in a crisis
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2017, 07:17:43 AM
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I wasnt talking about citizenship. Now that you brought it up I will have to look up citizenship for Puerto Ricans. I don't know the details of the relationship of the U.S. and Puerto Rico, but clearly if we are going to call them a territory we have an obligation to provide emergency assistance for the major disaster they are now in.

Maybe people can overlook Trump being a dumbass while nobody is getting hurt, but nobody should be overlook Trump's behavior in a crisis

Technically not a territory like Guam.  A commonwealth ... think British.  But they have the right to secede, unlike California.  So we are providing emergency aide .. but if a D does it .. it is great, if an R does it .. sucks to be you.  Well, we don't know yet if FEMA etc is as bad this time as Katrina, but they were already dealing with Texas and Florida.  So please send all of your ill gotten gain and filthy lucre to a legitimate charity, to help out Puerto Rico.  Or shut your TDS up.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Gilgamesh on October 02, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
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worst president in our history,

Dude, any president from the 80's and earlier would be hated even more than Trump if they were president today. It's not that the current POTUS is the worst - it's that the current political climate is more sensitive to bigotry (perceived or real) than ever before. But as far as policies and public image go, Trump is far more progressive than politicians were 30 years ago.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 02, 2017, 12:34:40 PM
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Dude, any president from the 80's and earlier would be hated even more than Trump if they were president today. It's not that the current POTUS is the worst - it's that the current political climate is more sensitive to bigotry (perceived or real) than ever before. But as far as policies and public image go, Trump is far more progressive than politicians were 30 years ago.
You are so right on!  Why just yesterday I saw him (or should it be Him) walking on water.....................
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Gilgamesh on October 02, 2017, 12:48:05 PM
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You are so right on!  Why just yesterday I saw him (or should it be Him) walking on water.....................

Before you post you should consider whether the content of your would-be post adds more to the forum space than it takes away. You never create dialogue. You just sarcastically agree with everyone who you disagree with.

Here, this would be a good read for you, so you may improve your contributions:

https://alfredmacdonald.com/2012/12/26/dissecting-the-frog-on-sarcastic-paraphrase/

(It's actually a good read for anyone who enjoys argumentation, or anyone who enjoys observing it.)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 02, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
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Before you post you should consider whether the content of your would-be post adds more to the forum space than it takes away. You never create dialogue. You just sarcastically agree with everyone who you disagree with.

Here, this would be a good read for you, so you may improve your contributions:

https://alfredmacdonald.com/2012/12/26/dissecting-the-frog-on-sarcastic-paraphrase/

(It's actually a good read for anyone who enjoys argumentation, or anyone who enjoys observing it.)
I would engage you in dialogue except trying to talk to you about your new ruler Trump would be as productive as trying to dissuade a theist their god is a fiction.  Why bother?   
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Gilgamesh on October 02, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
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I would engage you in dialogue except trying to talk to you about your new ruler Trump would be as productive as trying to dissuade a theist their god is a fiction.  Why bother?   

Saying you won't engage someone in debate on the grounds that their position is unchanging is certainly a good tactic to avoid losing arguments and having to change your position.

But seriously read that page.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2017, 01:25:31 PM
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Dude, any president from the 80's and earlier would be hated even more than Trump if they were president today. It's not that the current POTUS is the worst - it's that the current political climate is more sensitive to bigotry (perceived or real) than ever before. But as far as policies and public image go, Trump is far more progressive than politicians were 30 years ago.

How soon we forget.  Also ... All D presidents were wonderful (said by a D supporter).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2017, 01:28:34 PM
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Before you post you should consider whether the content of your would-be post adds more to the forum space than it takes away. You never create dialogue. You just sarcastically agree with everyone who you disagree with.

Here, this would be a good read for you, so you may improve your contributions:

https://alfredmacdonald.com/2012/12/26/dissecting-the-frog-on-sarcastic-paraphrase/

(It's actually a good read for anyone who enjoys argumentation, or anyone who enjoys observing it.)

I much prefer sarcasm and wit, to decapitation by the Inquisition of the DNC or RNC.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 04:06:30 AM
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How soon we forget.  Also ... All D presidents were wonderful (said by a D supporter).

As opposed to the genious Presidents; Nixon, Ford, Bush 2, and Trump... 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
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During the crisis in Puerto Rico Trump has shown an unparalleled level of incompetence. While the people are in survival mode after the wind of 3 hurricanes, the best Trump can do is say they should be helping themselves. Do we really want an ignoramus in the Whie House? The Constitution gives Congress authority to impeach the president for any reason; no crime necessary.

If the Republitards in Congress are to yellow-bellied to do the right thing and get rid of the worst president in our history, shouldn't we start recalling our representatives.
While I'm as anxious as anyone to see the demented Cheeto sent packing back to his tower in NYC, there's a couple reasons I would prefer them to at least wait until the Mueller investigation wraps up.

One, 'high crimes and misdemeanors' is the bar set by the Constitution, and while he's a monumental asshole and complete incompetent, I can't at my most optimistic consider either of those a high crime or misdemeanor.  Now, incompetence brings the 25th Amendment into play, but that's for Pence and the Cabinet to implement, not Congress.

Two, impeachment should be uncommon.  The two times it went to the Senate, it was done for political reasons -- House and Senate Republicans simply wanted to get rid of Andrew Johnson, and later Bill Clinton (remember that even Witchfinder General Ken Starr had to ultimately admit that there was no wrongdoing in the Whitewater matter).  Nixon short-circuited what was by then his inevitable impeachment and conviction by resigning.  House Democrats (unwisely, in my opinion) took impeachment off the table as the lies and criminality over the Iraq invasion began to mount, and they did that for political reasons -- they didn't want to look like it was retaliation for attempted coup d'état against Clinton.

Third, I'm not sure I want Pence in charge.  He's a religious extremist who's not afraid to try to legislate his religion.  And unlike his boss, he's a politician who knows how to get what he wants through a legislature.  I certainly don't want him promoted this early in the term, when he has plenty of time to build incumbency before 2020.

So yes, I'm content to await the outcome of the Mueller investigation.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 12:10:48 PM
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While I'm as anxious as anyone to see the demented Cheeto sent packing back to his tower in NYC, there's a couple reasons I would prefer them to at least wait until the Mueller investigation wraps up.

One, 'high crimes and misdemeanors' is the bar set by the Constitution, and while he's a monumental asshole and complete incompetent, I can't at my most optimistic consider either of those a high crime or misdemeanor.  Now, incompetence brings the 25th Amendment into play, but that's for Pence and the Cabinet to implement, not Congress.

Two, impeachment should be uncommon.  The two times it went to the Senate, it was done for political reasons -- House and Senate Republicans simply wanted to get rid of Andrew Johnson, and later Bill Clinton (remember that even Witchfinder General Ken Starr had to ultimately admit that there was no wrongdoing in the Whitewater matter).  Nixon short-circuited what was by then his inevitable impeachment and conviction by resigning.  House Democrats (unwisely, in my opinion) took impeachment off the table as the lies and criminality over the Iraq invasion began to mount, and they did that for political reasons -- they didn't want to look like it was retaliation for attempted coup d'état against Clinton.

Third, I'm not sure I want Pence in charge.  He's a religious extremist who's not afraid to try to legislate his religion.  And unlike his boss, he's a politician who knows how to get what he wants through a legislature.  I certainly don't want him promoted this early in the term, when he has plenty of time to build incumbency before 2020.

So yes, I'm content to await the outcome of the Mueller investigation.

Causes for impeachment would come FROM the Mueller investigation. 

But like Agnew protecting Nixon from impeachment, Pence might also have to go first.  I'll admit some uncertainty of that.  Pence is (thankfully) not Agnew.  A deal for Pence might not be the worst thing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 09:31:45 PM
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Causes for impeachment would come FROM the Mueller investigation. 

But like Agnew protecting Nixon from impeachment, Pence might also have to go first.  I'll admit some uncertainty of that.  Pence is (thankfully) not Agnew.  A deal for Pence might not be the worst thing.

Better get Pence first .. otherwise the gays and atheists are going in the ovens ;-(  He is a Christian theocrat.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 04, 2017, 11:40:49 PM
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Causes for impeachment would come FROM the Mueller investigation. 

But like Agnew protecting Nixon from impeachment, Pence might also have to go first.  I'll admit some uncertainty of that.  Pence is (thankfully) not Agnew.  A deal for Pence might not be the worst thing.
My point exactly.  Going for a removal now is pointless.  Let's wait for the Mueller investigation to give us real crimes and misdemeanors.  Mere assholitude is not an impeachable offense (neither is a blowjob, but the GOP was desperate to get even with a Democrat who dared win elections).

I'd almost rather Pence *were* Agnew -- crooked to the core so he could be sidelined.  Pence is politician enough to get his extremist religious agenda through a GOP congress that's having trouble uniting behind Asshole because he can talk their language and cut the kind deals that are necessary.  Congress doesn't like being ordered around the way Asshole does it, especially not by tweet.  If he weren't so profoundly self-absorbed and immature, the damage he could have done by now is immense.

In some ways, having him stick around is almost (ALMOST!!) preferable, since with his psychotically unpredictable hand at the helm, he'll have an awful time accomplishing anything.  Pence could get his christofascist agenda enacted, while Asshole can't.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2017, 12:19:57 AM
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My point exactly.  Going for a removal now is pointless.  Let's wait for the Mueller investigation to give us real crimes and misdemeanors.  Mere assholitude is not an impeachable offense (neither is a blowjob, but the GOP was desperate to get even with a Democrat who dared win elections).

I'd almost rather Pence *were* Agnew -- crooked to the core so he could be sidelined.  Pence is politician enough to get his extremist religious agenda through a GOP congress that's having trouble uniting behind Asshole because he can talk their language and cut the kind deals that are necessary.  Congress doesn't like being ordered around the way Asshole does it, especially not by tweet.  If he weren't so profoundly self-absorbed and immature, the damage he could have done by now is immense.

In some ways, having him stick around is almost (ALMOST!!) preferable, since with his psychotically unpredictable hand at the helm, he'll have an awful time accomplishing anything.  Pence could get his christofascist agenda enacted, while Asshole can't.

Hillary taking a $1 million dollar bribe from Qatar ... is an impeachable offense against a Secretary of State.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 05, 2017, 12:58:45 AM
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Dude, any president from the 80's and earlier would be hated even more than Trump if they were president today. It's not that the current POTUS is the worst - it's that the current political climate is more sensitive to bigotry (perceived or real) than ever before. But as far as policies and public image go, Trump is far more progressive than politicians were 30 years ago.



It's not just bigotry... Donald Trump's actual policies have been deplorable as well. At least most previous politicians were either terrible people but decent politicians or they were great people but terrible politicians... Donald Trump is both just a shitty human being and an unbelievably incompetent politician and statesman. I think you really have to dig deep and go to presidents like Grant, John Tyler, Fillmore, Andrew Johnson,Harding to find the last time we had such a failure of a president, and we aren't even a full year into his reign yet.

Mind you, the "worst" presidents who were highly unpopular overwhelmingly all came before the 1980's (Bush Jr. is the exception to the rule), so your statement that it's the sensitivity of modern society doesn't really seem to hold much factual basis to it and instead is more just stereotyping the younger generations to try and defend your man as well as just seems like a desperate attempt at blaming anyone other than your guy for why people don't like him. At a certain point, you just have to face the music and say he is just the living embodiment of douchery.

And let's cut the bullshit, it's not "perceived" bigotry from Trump; if his statements and actions do not fit the bill of being a bigot, than it's time we retire that word from the English language because it's clear it has lost any meaning.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2017, 07:02:58 AM
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It's not just bigotry... Donald Trump's actual policies have been deplorable as well. At least most previous politicians were either terrible people but decent politicians or they were great people but terrible politicians... Donald Trump is both just a shitty human being and an unbelievably incompetent politician and statesman. I think you really have to dig deep and go to presidents like Grant, John Tyler, Fillmore, Andrew Johnson,Harding to find the last time we had such a failure of a president, and we aren't even a full year into his reign yet.

Mind you, the "worst" presidents who were highly unpopular overwhelmingly all came before the 1980's (Bush Jr. is the exception to the rule), so your statement that it's the sensitivity of modern society doesn't really seem to hold much factual basis to it and instead is more just stereotyping the younger generations to try and defend your man as well as just seems like a desperate attempt at blaming anyone other than your guy for why people don't like him. At a certain point, you just have to face the music and say he is just the living embodiment of douchery.

And let's cut the bullshit, it's not "perceived" bigotry from Trump; if his statements and actions do not fit the bill of being a bigot, than it's time we retire that word from the English language because it's clear it has lost any meaning.

See, if you don't like a politician, don't vote for them again, if you ever did.  End of story.  That is all you get to do as a citizen, sometimes.  And focus on the real power, Congress.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 04:00:35 AM
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Hillary taking a $1 million dollar bribe from Qatar ... is an impeachable offense against a Secretary of State.

Evidence please...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 04:05:32 AM
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It's not just bigotry... Donald Trump's actual policies have been deplorable as well. At least most previous politicians were either terrible people but decent politicians or they were great people but terrible politicians... Donald Trump is both just a shitty human being and an unbelievably incompetent politician and statesman. I think you really have to dig deep and go to presidents like Grant, John Tyler, Fillmore, Andrew Johnson,Harding to find the last time we had such a failure of a president, and we aren't even a full year into his reign yet.

Mind you, the "worst" presidents who were highly unpopular overwhelmingly all came before the 1980's (Bush Jr. is the exception to the rule), so your statement that it's the sensitivity of modern society doesn't really seem to hold much factual basis to it and instead is more just stereotyping the younger generations to try and defend your man as well as just seems like a desperate attempt at blaming anyone other than your guy for why people don't like him. At a certain point, you just have to face the music and say he is just the living embodiment of douchery.

And let's cut the bullshit, it's not "perceived" bigotry from Trump; if his statements and actions do not fit the bill of being a bigot, than it's time we retire that word from the English language because it's clear it has lost any meaning.

No actually, Trump is far more insane than any other President in our history.  Any rational and objective view suggests it.  Even Nixon actually intended to govern.  Trump is off in Never-Never Land.  And I don't say that happily or lightly.  I wish he was just manipulative.  Presidents can function that way.  He is just plain nuts!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 05:42:49 PM
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No actually, Trump is far more insane than any other President in our history.  Any rational and objective view suggests it.  Even Nixon actually intended to govern.  Trump is off in Never-Never Land.  And I don't say that happily or lightly.  I wish he was just manipulative.  Presidents can function that way.  He is just plain nuts!

He is just plain nuts! ... says Mr Peanut ;-)

Trump is the anti-Christ ... claims atheist ;-))
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 10:25:47 PM
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He is just plain nuts! ... says Mr Peanut ;-)

Trump is the anti-Christ ... claims atheist ;-))

So wrong again.  Atheists have no more belief in an anti-christ than a christ.  Both are superstitions we do not pay attention to.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 10:27:41 PM
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So wrong again.  Atheists have no more belief in an anti-christ than a christ.  Both are superstitions we do not pay attention to.

Your SQ (Satire Quotient) is really low.  You are not color blind, you are smiley blind ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 10:30:31 PM
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Your SQ (Satire Quotient) is really low.  You are not color blind, you are smiley blind ...

Rational people are often very literal.  But you are right, I missed the smiley.  That said, I bet you meant it. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 10:40:42 PM
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Rational people are often very literal.  But you are right, I missed the smiley.  That said, I bet you meant it.

We all have bad days.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 11:06:29 PM
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We all have bad days.

But some of us have reasons,  My TV blinked off, the car timing belt needs to be replaced, and I burned my mouth on a home-made pizza. 

What is your "bad day"?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 09, 2017, 10:30:51 AM
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But some of us have reasons,  My TV blinked off, the car timing belt needs to be replaced, and I burned my mouth on a home-made pizza. 

What is your "bad day"?

That is a pretty bad day.  Hope you can fix your pizza eating timing, find your belt to hold your pants up, and learn to live without the idiot box.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:13:04 AM
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That is a pretty bad day.  Hope you can fix your pizza eating timing, find your belt to hold your pants up, and learn to live without the idiot box.

I'm a suspender guy.  My car is a timing belt type of mechanism.  And I use the "idiot box" mostly to watch science, nature, and history DVDs.  Congrats, another 0 for 3 try...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:14:01 AM
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I'm a suspender guy.  My car is a timing belt type of mechanism.  And I use the "idiot box" mostly to watch science, nature, and history DVDs.  Congrats, another 0 for 3 try...

Takes an idiot to know an idiot box ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:17:17 PM
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Takes an idiot to know an idiot box ;-)

If watching science, nature, and history DVDs on the "idiot box" makes me an idiot, I will stand tall and proud.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 08:08:12 PM
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If watching science, nature, and history DVDs on the "idiot box" makes me an idiot, I will stand tall and proud.

You are using a technology ... not TV.  TV is for vidiots.  They only put good stuff on, because it won't fit on Youtube.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cocoa Beware on October 15, 2017, 04:37:23 PM
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Dude, any president from the 80's and earlier would be hated even more than Trump if they were president today. It's not that the current POTUS is the worst - it's that the current political climate is more sensitive to bigotry (perceived or real) than ever before. But as far as policies and public image go, Trump is far more progressive than politicians were 30 years ago.



I would say he is not yet the worst SCROTUS of all time, but it's only been a few months.

What I will say is that if he was able to get one or two of the things he wanted, for example:

A repeal of the ACA with no real replacement
An unencumbered agenda to silence dissent, the media in particular
A fetish for nuclear proliferation
A fetish to make NK and perhaps a few more places uninhabitable
An unencumbered agenda to kick people out of the country

Then not only would he be the worst President in history, he could be in the running for the most terrible leader of all time in any context.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on October 17, 2017, 04:55:00 AM
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'high crimes and misdemeanors' is the bar set by the Constitution
well I had to go read the Constitution again. You had me thinkng I slipped into an alternate universe... The Constitution makes it a requirement to impeach for treason, bribery, or high crimes. (In other words there are a lot of things that Congress can choose to let somone get away with, but they can’t overlook these particular things) No where does the Constitution say that these are the only reasons to impeach an elected official.

Mueller investigation: something makes me think Mueller is trying to lock Trump up for 100 years. Hey Mueller you only need to get 10 years. He is already an old fart.

I like that term assholitude :-D
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2017, 05:04:20 AM
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well I had to go read the Constitution again. You had me thinkng I slipped into an alternate universe... The Constitution makes it a requirement to impeach for treason, bribery, or high crimes. (In other words there are a lot of things that Congress can choose to let somone get away with, but they can’t overlook these particular things) No where does the Constitution say that these are the only reasons to impeach an elected official.

Mueller investigation: something makes me think Mueller is trying to lock Trump up for 100 years. Hey Mueller you only need to get 10 years. He is already an old fart.

I like that term assholitude :-D

One of the key aspects of governance is ... selective enforcement.  Particularly if an agency is its own reviewer.  This is hard to avoid with Congress.  Don't ask me ... I would impeach all of them, not just the one's I voted for, but definitely all those I didn't vote for.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 17, 2017, 09:36:11 AM
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well I had to go read the Constitution again. You had me thinkng I slipped into an alternate universe... The Constitution makes it a requirement to impeach for treason, bribery, or high crimes. (In other words there are a lot of things that Congress can choose to let somone get away with, but they can’t overlook these particular things) No where does the Constitution say that these are the only reasons to impeach an elected official.

Mueller investigation: something makes me think Mueller is trying to lock Trump up for 100 years. Hey Mueller you only need to get 10 years. He is already an old fart.

I like that term assholitude :-D
You're right, I had forgotten treason and bribery.  But I don't think either of those are likely charges.

I don't mind Mueller going for a 100 year sentence -- if he has enough for a sentence like that, then at least *some* of it will stick.  And we only really need one charge for a successful impeachment.  Alternately, if he has enough for a sentence like that then perhaps, as in 1974, the GOP will realize continued support is untenable and at the very least not stand in the way.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2017, 01:07:09 PM
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You're right, I had forgotten treason and bribery.  But I don't think either of those are likely charges.

I don't mind Mueller going for a 100 year sentence -- if he has enough for a sentence like that, then at least *some* of it will stick.  And we only really need one charge for a successful impeachment.  Alternately, if he has enough for a sentence like that then perhaps, as in 1974, the GOP will realize continued support is untenable and at the very least not stand in the way.

More stuff came out today, on the Russian uranium deal, that the FBI sat on, involving OK by Obama, massive bribery by Russian interests, and a giant bribe to the Clinton Foundation.  Yes, only Republicans are evil ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 02:03:51 AM
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You are using a technology ... not TV.  TV is for vidiots.  They only put good stuff on, because it won't fit on Youtube.

Wow, talk about misunderstanding!  You should see the 2 shelves of my Science/Nature/History DVDs. 



Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:14:00 AM
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Wow, talk about misunderstanding!  You should see the 2 shelves of my Science/Nature/History DVDs.

You probably still have a VCR ... stone tablet much? ;-)  You are supposed to stream everything now, so that NSA can watch you as you watch it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 09:57:47 AM
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You probably still have a VCR ... stone tablet much? ;-)  You are supposed to stream everything now, so that NSA can watch you as you watch it.

I have a VCR.  Its the only way I can watch the original Disney Fantasia.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:09:19 PM
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I have a VCR.  Its the only way I can watch the original Disney Fantasia.

But ... but ... you like boring literal facts, and hate all fiction and art, right?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on October 22, 2017, 04:11:33 AM
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More stuff came out today, on the Russian uranium deal, that the FBI sat on, involving OK by Obama, massive bribery by Russian interests, and a giant bribe to the Clinton Foundation.  Yes, only Republicans are evil ;-)
I was day dreaming while driving. On wed or thurs Steel and Ungar on the XM had some expert on on the subject. I want to try to get the podcast because the Uranium deal with Russia was as bad as it gets. Apparently all locked up in contracts that can not be changed... I’m glad I didnt vote for Hillary either. (thats right boys and girls, I didnt vote for Trump or Hillary. I voted against them both.)

Selling our uranium to Russia is as stupid as Obama giving fighter aircraft to Egypt after the government we made a deal with was overthrown by military coup
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2017, 10:02:03 AM
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I was day dreaming while driving. On wed or thurs Steel and Ungar on the XM had some expert on on the subject. I want to try to get the podcast because the Uranium deal with Russia was as bad as it gets. Apparently all locked up in contracts that can not be changed... I’m glad I didnt vote for Hillary either. (thats right boys and girls, I didnt vote for Trump or Hillary. I voted against them both.)

Selling our uranium to Russia is as stupid as Obama giving fighter aircraft to Egypt after the government we made a deal with was overthrown by military coup

Contracts are inviolate (but citizenship isn't).  How convenient is that?  See Cyprus, Greece and Catalonia.  I am starting to like the French/Russian revolution more.

But ... but ... everything is proven if a R-thug does it, but if a D-thug does it, then if you weren't in the room when Obama and Hillary and Putin cut their palms and made a blood oath ... then it is fake news.  Corruption isn't partisan.  Using partisanship to cock-block law enforcement is ... suicidal.  If we refuse to enforce laws ... then passing more laws won't help (same problem with legalized prostitution ... that we assume that regulations will be enforced).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 03:22:11 AM
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But ... but ... you like boring literal facts, and hate all fiction and art, right?

I live by facts.  But I can also indulge in the "willing suspension of disbelief" for some entertainment.  WHEN I choose AND recognizing I am doing it.  Understanding the factual world does not mean that fiction is not a part of the realm of the mind.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 11:04:33 PM
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I live by facts.  But I can also indulge in the "willing suspension of disbelief" for some entertainment.  WHEN I choose AND recognizing I am doing it.  Understanding the factual world does not mean that fiction is not a part of the realm of the mind.

Glad you clarified that.  Now about this delusion about being a bear ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 03:31:22 AM
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Glad you clarified that.  Now about this delusion about being a bear ...

The cavebear symbolism suits me.  Slow to rouse and quick to anger.  Hits hard.  Want to discuss the symbolism of "baruch"?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2017, 01:43:46 PM
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The cavebear symbolism suits me.  Slow to rouse and quick to anger.  Hits hard.  Want to discuss the symbolism of "baruch"?

First modern man, first modern Jew ... not an animal.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 02:06:59 PM
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First modern man, first modern Jew ... not an animal.

I didn't realize "baruch" was nearly 200,000 years old!  Or that jews went back so far too.  Must have awkward when the hunters roasted a pig....  Salad in the cave for one?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2017, 04:32:49 AM
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I didn't realize "baruch" was nearly 200,000 years old!  Or that jews went back so far too.  Must have awkward when the hunters roasted a pig....  Salad in the cave for one?

If a pre-Cro-Magnon is modern to you, then your iPhone must be way ... out of date ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 12:58:47 AM
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If a pre-Cro-Magnon is modern to you, then your iPhone must be way ... out of date ;-)

I have a simple cordless phone with NoMoRoBo, and it works just fine for me, thank you very much.  Unless I am expecting a call from a contractor, all the other calls are just junk to be deleted daily.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2017, 07:00:58 AM
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I have a simple cordless phone with NoMoRoBo, and it works just fine for me, thank you very much.  Unless I am expecting a call from a contractor, all the other calls are just junk to be deleted daily.

I screen calls too.  Simple enough even a cave man can do it (posting this from my man cave).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
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I screen calls too.  Simple enough even a cave man can do it (posting this from my man cave).

How many calls per day do you answer?  I am nearing 0.1.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2017, 08:05:10 PM
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How many calls per day do you answer?  I am nearing 0.1.

Not counting work calls, and texts, I am about where you are.  I keep a land line just as a honey pot for salesmen, pollsters and bill collectors.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 03, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
I dont answer numbers I dont know. But afterwards I try to call back to see what happens. If I call back and its D/C I know its a scam artist. If I call back and its some business I dont know I assume its a telemarketer. Either way I save the number and then block it. Makes it nice and quiet. After the first time they call, they may call again, but the phone doesnt ring anymore. :-D

I got a simple system for saving the numbers

scammer 1
scammer 2

telemarketer 1
telemarketer 2

my old phone had 33 telemarketer numbers. before the smart phone let me block the numbers, I just looked at the name on the screen and said I aint answering **-*
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Sylar on November 03, 2017, 01:22:09 AM
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I was day dreaming while driving. On wed or thurs Steel and Ungar on the XM had some expert on on the subject. I want to try to get the podcast because the Uranium deal with Russia was as bad as it gets. Apparently all locked up in contracts that can not be changed... I’m glad I didnt vote for Hillary either. (thats right boys and girls, I didnt vote for Trump or Hillary. I voted against them both.)

You strike me as liberal-leaning (at least that's what I garnered from your posts -- do correct me if I'm wrong). Did you really think the best time to make a principled stand was during the same election year we had a vacancy in the Supreme Court (which was prevented from being filled by GOP for a year), and potentially even more should Kennedy or another justice resign? Anyways, it's the past now.

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Selling our uranium to Russia is as stupid as Obama giving fighter aircraft to Egypt after the government we made a deal with was overthrown by military coup

This needs to be addressed because it's bullshit:

Quote
The claim that Clinton gave 20 percent of America’s uranium to Russia is incorrect and clearly misleading. Trump is referring to Russia’s nuclear power agency purchasing a majority stake in a Toronto-based energy company between 2009 and 2013. The company had mines and land in a number of US states with huge uranium production capacity — a move the US State Department signed off on. But PolitiFact did a thorough fact-check of the claim last year when Trump first made it on the campaign trail, and found the following faults with it:

1. The mines, mills, and land the company holds in the US account for 20 percent of the US’s uranium production capacity, not actual produced uranium.

2. The State Department was one of nine federal agencies and a number of additional independent federal and state regulators that signed off on the deal.

3. President Obama, not Secretary Clinton, was the only person who could’ve vetoed the deal.

4. Since Russia doesn’t have the legal right to export uranium out of the US, its main goal was likely to gain access to the company’s uranium assets in Kazakhstan.

5. Crucially, the main national security concern was not about nuclear weapons proliferation, as Trump suggests, but actually ensuring the US doesn’t have to depend too much on uranium sources from abroad, as the US only makes about 20 percent of the uranium it needs. An advantage in making nuclear weapons wasn’t the main issue because, as PolitiFact notes, “the United States and Russia had for years cooperated on that front, with Russia sending enriched fuel from decommissioned warheads to be used in American nuclear power plants in return for raw uranium.”
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/17/14649980/trump-clinton-russia-uranium

Secretary of State or any member of CFIUS cannot veto the transaction:
"Only the President has the authority to suspend or prohibit a covered transaction" (top of 74569)
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/foreign-investment/Documents/CFIUSGuidance.pdf

No uranium ever left the US, nor can it ever leave, according to a statement by Nuclear Regulatory Commission:

Quote
NRC’s review of the transfer of control request determined that the U.S. subsidiaries will remain the licensees, will remain qualified to conduct the uranium recovery operations, and will continue to have the equipment, facilities, and procedures necessary to protect public health and safety and to minimize danger to life or property. The review also determined that the licensees will maintain adequate financial surety for eventual decommissioning of the sites. Neither Uranium One nor ARMZ holds an NRC export license, so no uranium produced at either facility may be exported.

Also, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP04_TVbW8k

The deal was done on the up and up, requiring multi-agency review and approval. No criminal conspiracy whatsoever. Just standard policy practiced out in the open; it's your right to disagree with this policy, of course.

Now, question to you and others: Any fact-based argument as to why the transaction should have been stopped? I have yet to hear/read a convincing argument in answer to this question.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2017, 03:04:21 AM
If the Narrative is ... Russia is Evil ... then the DNC etc is Russian agents.

Meanwhile, if we are selling the US to the Chinese Communist Party already, why not sell the crumbs to Putin?  The Americans are slaves.  Get back to picking that cotton, you DNC troll ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 04, 2017, 12:59:33 AM
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I dont answer numbers I dont know. But afterwards I try to call back to see what happens. If I call back and its D/C I know its a scam artist. If I call back and its some business I dont know I assume its a telemarketer. Either way I save the number and then block it. Makes it nice and quiet. After the first time they call, they may call again, but the phone doesnt ring anymore. :-D

I got a simple system for saving the numbers

scammer 1
scammer 2

telemarketer 1
telemarketer 2

my old phone had 33 telemarketer numbers. before the smart phone let me block the numbers, I just looked at the name on the screen and said I aint answering **-*

I used to block calls.  But, when blocked, they seem to shift to new numbers.  I can block a few dozen numbers, but it doesn't seem to be worth the effort.  They just use new ones.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 04, 2017, 01:15:58 AM
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I used to block calls.  But, when blocked, they seem to shift to new numbers.  I can block a few dozen numbers, but it doesn't seem to be worth the effort.  They just use new ones.
I use an app called Mr Number.  It does a pretty good job of filtering out the cocksucking sacks of shit who need to die agonizingly... er, filtering out phone scammers.  It has a good block list and lets me add to it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 04, 2017, 01:20:17 AM
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I use an app called Mr Number.  It does a pretty good job of filtering out the cocksucking sacks of shit who need to die agonizingly... er, filtering out phone scammers.  It has a good block list and lets me add to it.

What techs can Mr Number be used with? 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 04, 2017, 05:25:08 AM
Sylar: I meant that I wasn’t paying attention when a good conversation about the uranium deal was going on. If I had been paying attention I would know as much about it as you do.

I didn’t make any stand on principal in the election. There was no way I was going to vote for Hillary even if she was the only candidate on the ballot. Personally I thought Jill Stein was a better candidate than Hillary or Trump. Everyone should be voting for who they think is best not who is most likely to win.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 04, 2017, 05:35:24 AM
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Sylar: I meant that I wasn’t paying attention when a good conversation about the uranium deal was going on. If I had been paying attention I would know as much about it as you do.

I didn’t make any stand on principal in the election. There was no way I was going to vote for Hillary even if she was the only candidate on the ballot. Personally I thought Jill Stein was a better candidate than Hillary or Trump. Everyone should be voting for who they think is best not who is most likely to win.

While I agree with you on principle, there is also the matter on trying to make sure the worst candidate does not win.  I voted for Clinton to defeat Trump.  Unfortunately, even THAT did not work.  And now we have Trump in his full inglorious existence...

If you voted for Stein, you may have helped elect Trump...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2017, 10:20:11 AM
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Sylar: I meant that I wasn’t paying attention when a good conversation about the uranium deal was going on. If I had been paying attention I would know as much about it as you do.

I didn’t make any stand on principal in the election. There was no way I was going to vote for Hillary even if she was the only candidate on the ballot. Personally I thought Jill Stein was a better candidate than Hillary or Trump. Everyone should be voting for who they think is best not who is most likely to win.

Correct, except Jill Stein (cough) showed she could be bought by Hillary after the election.  You should have voted for Gary Johnson ;-)

I don't think anyone knew about the Uranium One deal until quite recently ... the conspirators (Obama, Hillary, Mueller, Putin ...) suppressed the whistle blowers.

Remember it is only a lie when an R person lies about yellow cake (Bush), but it is the truth when a D person lies about yellow cake (Obama).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2017, 10:22:06 AM
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While I agree with you on principle, there is also the matter on trying to make sure the worst candidate does not win.  I voted for Clinton to defeat Trump.  Unfortunately, even THAT did not work.  And now we have Trump in his full inglorious existence...

If you voted for Stein, you may have helped elect Trump...

Other people here, at the time, said that.  I would de-citizen anyone who says what you just said.  Vote your conscience, or choose not to vote.  Both are legal.  Making something "implicitly" illegal to suite political ideology ... is insane.  How about ... one party, one candidate, one vote ... Big Clinton will tell you who to vote for.  Hillary Clinton was and still is a monster.  Donald Trump is no gentleman, and probably cheats on his taxes and does crooked business deals.  They are actually the same ... grifters ... operating in different arenas.  Trump was chosen by the DNC, Hillary and MSM to be the R party candidate, in order to shoe-in the election for Her.  But now we find out, the Clinton Criminal Syndicate had already taken over the DNC before the election even started, because Obama left it millions of dollars in the hole.  Then thru ... whatever means ... money appeared after being money laundered by the Clinton Foundation, to pay off the DNC debt.  Then 99% of all state level D party fund raising, went to Her, only crumbs went back to elect local Democrats.  Hence their poor showing, and the failure to get Electoral College votes in key states that were a shoe in, like Wisconsin.  Now everyone who wasn't already a Hillarybot, in the D party of self destruction, is being purged.  The Clinton Crime Syndicate will never let their claws loose from the D party.  They intend to rule it in perpetuity, like the Bush Crime Syndicate does with the R party.  Both Bush and Clinton ... Carlyle Group and CIA.  The Clintons are trojan horses ... R party members ... all the way back to college.  Hired on the long term plan to infiltrate and destroy the D party.  I sure hope they are successful ... even though I have no love for the R party.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Sylar on November 05, 2017, 04:36:39 AM
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Sylar: I meant that I wasn’t paying attention when a good conversation about the uranium deal was going on. If I had been paying attention I would know as much about it as you do.

I didn’t make any stand on principal in the election. There was no way I was going to vote for Hillary even if she was the only candidate on the ballot. Personally I thought Jill Stein was a better candidate than Hillary or Trump. Everyone should be voting for who they think is best not who is most likely to win.

Everyone is free to vote for who they think is best -- that is absolutely a given. I guess I am a bit more pragmatic and goal-oriented. Clinton (or even Trump, despite being an imbecile) as people did not matter to me. What mattered was policy. I chose to elect the person who resembled most my policy preference AND was somewhat capable of winning in order to eventually implement said policy. That's why even if I preferred Stein over Clinton, I could never vote for the former, because that would be like throwing away my vote. Stein's sure-loss helps me accomplish nothing.

I have always been an independent voter -- this was the first year ever I registered as a Democrat, just so I can elect Bernie in the California Primary. Previously, I've voted for Democrats or Republicans in local or state elections, depending on the candidate.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on November 05, 2017, 04:52:24 AM
Meanwhile trumph has picked Sam Clovis as head "scientist" at the agriculture department.. What a fucking winner this asswipe is..   http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/01/politics/kfile-sam-clovis-newsletters/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion  Read it and weep.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 06, 2017, 08:43:59 AM
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What techs can Mr Number be used with?
I'm using it on Android; I think there's an iOS version too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 03:07:08 AM
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Everyone is free to vote for who they think is best -- that is absolutely a given. I guess I am a bit more pragmatic and goal-oriented. Clinton (or even Trump, despite being an imbecile) as people did not matter to me. What mattered was policy. I chose to elect the person who resembled most my policy preference AND was somewhat capable of winning in order to eventually implement said policy. That's why even if I preferred Stein over Clinton, I could never vote for the former, because that would be like throwing away my vote. Stein's sure-loss helps me accomplish nothing.

I have always been an independent voter -- this was the first year ever I registered as a Democrat, just so I can elect Bernie in the California Primary. Previously, I've voted for Democrats or Republicans in local or state elections, depending on the candidate.

If I thought a 3rd party could garner 34% of the electoral votes I would give it a try. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:33:22 AM
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If I thought a 3rd party could garner 34% of the electoral votes I would give it a try.

And that is why you are still a D-R bitch.  Think of the US as a two-headed Stockholm Hostage.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 06:38:29 AM
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And that is why you are still a D-R bitch.  Think of the US as a two-headed Stockholm Hostage.

You can't treat anything seriously, can you?  The idea of a 3rd party has historical roots in US politics.  There were Whigs, No-Nothings, Unionists, Bull Moose, Progressive, etc parties in our history.  The Republicans were a 3rd Party once.  In fact, they might become a 3rd Party again.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:42:50 AM
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You can't treat anything seriously, can you?  The idea of a 3rd party has historical roots in US politics.  There were Whigs, No-Nothings, Unionists, Bull Moose, Progressive, etc parties in our history.  The Republicans were a 3rd Party once.  In fact, they might become a 3rd Party again.

Whigs were the 2nd party.  Democrat-republicans (renamed Democrats) were the 1st party (contrary to Federalists like the first two Presidents).  The D-R party was created by Jefferson as a counter move to the coup de etat staged in 1787.  Whigs were a counter move to the creation of the D-R party, as pro-England (mostly NY and New England).  South of Mason-Dixon, there were too many Scotch-Irish for there to be any nostalgia for Britain.  This still infects our politics today, hence the "Special Relationship" across "The Pond".  Sorry, No-Nothings were not a serious party like the Whigs ... who got renamed Republicans ... and from there the D-R party had to become just Democrat ... but there is that underlying collusion between the two, in name origin, as well as in fact.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 08:02:28 AM
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Whigs were the 2nd party.  Democrat-republicans (renamed Democrats) were the 1st party (contrary to Federalists like the first two Presidents).  The D-R party was created by Jefferson as a counter move to the coup de etat staged in 1787.  Whigs were a counter move to the creation of the D-R party, as pro-England (mostly NY and New England).  South of Mason-Dixon, there were too many Scotch-Irish for there to be any nostalgia for Britain.  This still infects our politics today, hence the "Special Relationship" across "The Pond".  Sorry, No-Nothings were not a serious party like the Whigs ... who got renamed Republicans ... and from there the D-R party had to become just Democrat ... but there is that underlying collusion between the two, in name origin, as well as in fact.

Yes, I know about the Democrat-Republicans.  Rolls-eyes...

I mentioned the No-Nothings as a 3rd party, which they were and where this discussion started.  You actually can only either make weak jokes or state the obvious apparently. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 07:46:35 PM
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Yes, I know about the Democrat-Republicans.  Rolls-eyes...

I mentioned the No-Nothings as a 3rd party, which they were and where this discussion started.  You actually can only either make weak jokes or state the obvious apparently.

False equivalence.  Same time period ... anti-Masonic party.  So that proves that Bill Clinton is Illuminati, yes?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 09, 2017, 12:28:14 AM
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Everyone is free to vote for who they think is best -- that is absolutely a given. I guess I am a bit more pragmatic and goal-oriented.
I think that if everyone was voting for their own best choice not who they thought could win that there would be no way in hell that Trump would have gotten chosen. Herman Cain is a genius compared to this Orange Dumbunny
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2017, 05:23:56 AM
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I think that if everyone was voting for their own best choice not who they thought could win that there would be no way in hell that Trump would have gotten chosen. Herman Cain is a genius compared to this Orange Dumbunny

At this point, voting by party is dumb.  Sorry fellow Atheistforum people.  Nixon vs HHH or Nixon vs McGovern wasn't a good choice either, this isn't new.  Johnson vs Goldwater?  Sheesh, two choices of death.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:45:48 AM
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At this point, voting by party is dumb.  Sorry fellow Atheistforum people.  Nixon vs HHH or Nixon vs McGovern wasn't a good choice either, this isn't new.  Johnson vs Goldwater?  Sheesh, two choices of death.

HHH would have been a better choice over Nixon in 1968, Nixon was a better choice over McGovern in 1972 for general political leadership , Johnson was a better choice over Goldwater in 1964.  But I voted for McGovern because I knew Nixon was a slimy bastard.   And ethics matter.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 02:09:35 AM
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HHH would have been a better choice over Nixon in 1968, Nixon was a better choice over McGovern in 1972 for general political leadership , Johnson was a better choice over Goldwater in 1964.  But I voted for McGovern because I knew Nixon was a slimy bastard.   And ethics matter.

I agree, ethics matters ... hence my non-support for the Clintons after 1994.  But on that basis, it is very hard to be politically active.  Only Machiavelli rules in politics.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 04:03:13 AM
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I agree, ethics matters ... hence my non-support for the Clintons after 1994.  But on that basis, it is very hard to be politically active.  Only Machiavelli rules in politics.

See, that's where equivalency fails.  Bill Clinton had weird consensual not-quite-sex with a adult female and the Republicans went crazy about it.

But Trump brags about groping women routinely ("because he can") and intrudes in their dressing rooms and Moore is assaulting a 14 year old girl and they "circle the wagons" to protect them. Both were wrong, but the hypocrisy is amazing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 10:48:24 AM
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See, that's where equivalency fails.  Bill Clinton had weird consensual not-quite-sex with a adult female and the Republicans went crazy about it.

But Trump brags about groping women routinely ("because he can") and intrudes in their dressing rooms and Moore is assaulting a 14 year old girl and they "circle the wagons" to protect them. Both were wrong, but the hypocrisy is amazing.

I think that D people secretly want to jet to that private island with Bill, and diddle underage girls, or in a private 747 while over international waters.  Disgusting.  And I don't support Trump.  And yes, politicians are a lot worse than hypocritical.  WW III is coming.  There are too many people, that is why "rent is too damn high" ... well nukes will solve that little problem.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 11:01:46 AM
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I think that D people secretly want to jet to that private island with Bill, and diddle underage girls, or in a private 747 while over international waters.  Disgusting.  And I don't support Trump.  And yes, politicians are a lot worse than hypocritical.  WW III is coming.  There are too many people, that is why "rent is too damn high" ... well nukes will solve that little problem.

I really do appreciate that you have become more honest and direct.  Unfortunately, your honesty and directness doen't make me think more highly of you.  Your opinions are drifting further into ultra-conservative thinking.

Democrats do not generally want to join your imagined jet flight to a private island of immorality. 

More sadly, you are engaged in a world of 20 years ago that didn't even exist then. 

And "WW III is coming.  There are too many people, that is why 'rent is too damn high' ... well nukes will solve that little problem".  Are you having a rent problem?  Or is it too many "damn immigrants"?  Do you want a nuclear war to reduce the world population?  Of whom?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 11:08:44 AM
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I really do appreciate that you have become more honest and direct.  Unfortunately, your honesty and directness doen't make me think more highly of you.  Your opinions are drifting further into ultra-conservative thinking.

Democrats do not generally want to join your imagined jet flight to a private island of immorality. 

More sadly, you are engaged in a world of 20 years ago that didn't even exist then. 

And "WW III is coming.  There are too many people, that is why 'rent is too damn high' ... well nukes will solve that little problem".  Are you having a rent problem?  Or is it too many "damn immigrants"?  Do you want a nuclear war to reduce the world population?  Of whom?

I am far-Right ... so it should sound like that, honestly.  And of course, inevitably, you project your concerns right off of CNN onto me.  I have no problem with immigrants ... my ancestors were immigrants.  I am not pr126 .. he isn't conservative enough.  No, I have low rent, but was projecting D party values using Jimmy McMillan.  If being far-Right doesn't win me friends, well, color me surprised.  And no, the Clintons didn't start getting completely immoral, and white-collar criminal, until after leaving office.  I guess they didn't want to embarrass the Secret Service detail ... until Obama, when they went off to the whore houses on their own.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
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I am far-Right ... so it should sound like that, honestly.  And of course, inevitably, you project your concerns right off of CNN onto me.  I have no problem with immigrants ... my ancestors were immigrants.  I am not pr126 .. he isn't conservative enough.  No, I have low rent, but was projecting D party values using Jimmy McMillan.  If being far-Right doesn't win me friends, well, color me surprised.  And no, the Clintons didn't start getting completely immoral, and white-collar criminal, until after leaving office.  I guess they didn't want to embarrass the Secret Service detail ... until Obama, when they went off to the whore houses on their own.

You are not "far-right" Baruch. You are far-far-far right slightly over the horizon.  You are beyond my ability to even discuss serious issues with you. 

I wish it was otherwise. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 11, 2017, 11:44:20 AM
Going by their website; CNN is a republican organization. They say things no Democrat would think of saying. Have to be out in Alex Jones territory to think CNN is too liberal. Its a moderate organization but definitely on the R side of the aisle.

For someone on the fire right you hide it well Baruch. I thought you were a moderate or a wildcard. I can admit to being a wildcard. Sometimes I listen to Alex Jones hangin on every word, but most of the time I think he’s full of crap (be a scary world if Limbaugher actually believes everything he says) Sometimes I listen to Mike Malloy and be tellin the radio “calm down Mike”. There are also times when I hear Malloy say something and I’ll be thinking “Its about time what took you so long?”.

: Mike Malloy is a far left atheist; now only on XM radio. On wed nights is church night. The day where he either generally makes fun of church or digs up dirt on religious leaders


🤔 I hope Baruch is not so far to the right that he thinks Trump is a hero


Nukes will not solve a rent problem. That would make only certain places safe to live. Rent will double or Triple after using nukes
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 11:59:04 AM
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Going by their website; CNN is a republican organization. They say things no Democrat would think of saying. Have to be out in Alex Jones territory to think CNN is too liberal. Its a moderate organization but definitely on the R side of the aisle.

For someone on the fire right you hide it well Baruch. I thought you were a moderate or a wildcard. I can admit to being a wildcard. Sometimes I listen to Alex Jones hangin on every word, but most of the time I think he’s full of crap (be a scary world if Limbaugher actually believes everything he says) Sometimes I listen to Mike Malloy and be tellin the radio “calm down Mike”. There are also times when I hear Malloy say something and I’ll be thinking “Its about time what took you so long?”.

: Mike Malloy is a far left atheist; now only on XM radio. On wed nights is church night. The day where he either generally makes fun of church or digs up dirt on religious leaders


🤔 I hope Baruch is not so far to the right that he thinks Trump is a hero

I think CNN is a bit conservative but not very rightist.  When I switch from MSNBC, CNN doesn't bother me much.  I am somewhere between them.

 I like the hosts of both.  But I'll admit the choice of guests does show a difference.  And I dislike hosts of any persusion who would let a guest finish a sentence.  I just can't watch Chris Matthews on MSNBC at 7 pm because of that.  And Ari "someone" is getting like that too at 6 pm.

Baruch "hid" it well until recently.  He stuck to religion.  Something released his inner John Birch lately.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 01:09:04 PM
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You are not "far-right" Baruch. You are far-far-far right slightly over the horizon.  You are beyond my ability to even discuss serious issues with you. 

I wish it was otherwise.

You are perfectly sane over baking etc. but you expect sanity in politics?  That is crazy!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 01:17:17 PM
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Going by their website; CNN is a republican organization. They say things no Democrat would think of saying. Have to be out in Alex Jones territory to think CNN is too liberal. Its a moderate organization but definitely on the R side of the aisle.

For someone on the fire right you hide it well Baruch. I thought you were a moderate or a wildcard. I can admit to being a wildcard. Sometimes I listen to Alex Jones hangin on every word, but most of the time I think he’s full of crap (be a scary world if Limbaugher actually believes everything he says) Sometimes I listen to Mike Malloy and be tellin the radio “calm down Mike”. There are also times when I hear Malloy say something and I’ll be thinking “Its about time what took you so long?”.

: Mike Malloy is a far left atheist; now only on XM radio. On wed nights is church night. The day where he either generally makes fun of church or digs up dirt on religious leaders


🤔 I hope Baruch is not so far to the right that he thinks Trump is a hero


Nukes will not solve a rent problem. That would make only certain places safe to live. Rent will double or Triple after using nukes

OK, you got me, I was channeling.  I am a wildcard.  I should tar Cavebear, but I should use honey, so the bees will take revenge on Winnie the Poo.  I was channeling the plantation owners ... not myself.  I own no plantation, I keep no slaves (except by being part of society).  The plantation owners are bent on Hell on Earth, they always are.  They own the planet (see 3 guys who own as much as the lower half of America combined?).  They can set fire to it if they want, just ask the SA crown prince.  No, Trump is no hero ... unless an arsonist is a hero for urban renewal (calling Emperor Nero ...).  And yes, MSM is right wing, in the sense that they are all controlled by the CIA, who by definition is right wing.  And the FBI, since the 60s, control all the left wing groups.

And you know, though I work with the military, I don't ever, ever want wars.  I don't want the things I worked on in the past to be used.  I don't want to see the young people I work with every day, killed because LBJ needs a hard on ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 01:19:50 PM
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  I don't want to see the young people I work with every day, killed because LBJ needs a hard on ...

Missed a few generations there Baruch? 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
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I think CNN is a bit conservative but not very rightist.  When I switch from MSNBC, CNN doesn't bother me much.  I am somewhere between them.

 I like the hosts of both.  But I'll admit the choice of guests does show a difference.  And I dislike hosts of any persusion who would let a guest finish a sentence.  I just can't watch Chris Matthews on MSNBC at 7 pm because of that.  And Ari "someone" is getting like that too at 6 pm.

Baruch "hid" it well until recently.  He stuck to religion.  Something released his inner John Birch lately.

I think you meant ... talking heads that "won't" let the guest finish their sentence ... are bad.  Been off TV addiction for 12 years now.  I attend TVA religiously ... TV Anonymous.

I have a hidden history in my own family.  I have mentioned some of it.  Sometimes I channel my grandfathers.  My own father was quite moderate in comparison.  Well, now that I got you hooked, I have this used car I think would make you the the cat's meow ... get lots of dates with the pretty young things ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
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Missed a few generations there Baruch?

Since 2001 we have been in bipartisan perpetual war.  Rip Van Winkle much?  LBJ is a good target ... such a nice man he was.  I would never talk about Eisenhower like that.  He knew how to kill people properly ... under a Congressional declaration of war.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 01:28:12 PM
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I think you meant ... talking heads that "won't" let the guest finish their sentence ... are bad.  Been off TV addiction for 12 years now.  I attend TVA religiously ... TV Anonymous.

I have a hidden history in my own family.  I have mentioned some of it.  Sometimes I channel my grandfathers.  My own father was quite moderate in comparison.  Well, now that I got you hooked, I have this used car I think would make you the the cat's meow ... get lots of dates with the pretty young things ...

Thank you.  Quite correct, I meant "wouldn't".  I have the most awful time completing contractions.  My thoughts are WAY faster than my fingers.  I also can't type "Th" words without going "TH", but I usually catch those. 

You wouldn't believe how much grief the contraction thing has caused me over the years though.  :(
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 12, 2017, 12:42:05 AM
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See, that's where equivalency fails.  Bill Clinton had weird consensual not-quite-sex with a adult female and the Republicans went crazy about it.

But Trump brags about groping women routinely ("because he can") and intrudes in their dressing rooms and Moore is assaulting a 14 year old girl and they "circle the wagons" to protect them. Both were wrong, but the hypocrisy is amazing.

Hell, they have people in Alabama saying they'll vote for Roy Moore even if the allegations against him are true.  They're so bound up in their political prejudices they'd be willing to send a child molester to the Senate just because there's an 'R' after his name and he says 'JAYZUS!' louder than his opponent.  And then they claim they're the ones with a special pipeline to (their) god.

That said, the polling after the accusations were made public show Moore and Jones roughly at parity, or Moore ahead but only within the margin of error of the poll.  I can't remember the last time a Democrat was competitive in Alabama.  I think it might've been 1978, but I'd genuinely have to google it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 12, 2017, 04:45:47 PM
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Hell, they have people in Alabama saying they'll vote for Roy Moore even if the allegations against him are true.  They're so bound up in their political prejudices they'd be willing to send a child molester to the Senate just because there's an 'R' after his name and he says 'JAYZUS!' louder than his opponent.  And then they claim they're the ones with a special pipeline to (their) god.

That said, the polling after the accusations were made public show Moore and Jones roughly at parity, or Moore ahead but only within the margin of error of the poll.  I can't remember the last time a Democrat was competitive in Alabama.  I think it might've been 1978, but I'd genuinely have to google it.
A high placed official in Ala. said something to the effect; Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 12, 2017, 05:23:52 PM
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A high placed official in Ala. said something to the effect; Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter.

I kinda figured sex mania wasn't confined to Democrat men ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 12, 2017, 11:39:12 PM
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A high placed official in Ala. said something to the effect; Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter.
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me wish the Deep South would secede again.  I sure as shit wouldn't stop them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2017, 11:54:12 PM
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This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me wish the Deep South would secede again.  I sure as shit wouldn't stop them.
Only if they get on a raft first.  These states don't rightly belong to those crazy assholes.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 13, 2017, 01:06:51 AM
Steele and Ungar: Steele made the point They would rather vote for a pedaphile than vote for a Democrat.

Supposedly Mary was 13 and Joseph was 15...

I suppose TVA could be a good thing. Maybe you could pretend that Trump isnt in the White House ;-)

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2017, 02:50:08 AM
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Steele and Ungar: Steele made the point They would rather vote for a pedaphile than vote for a Democrat.

Supposedly Mary was 13 and Joseph was 15...

I suppose TVA could be a good thing. Maybe you could pretend that Trump isnt in the White House ;-)

Doesn't matter who is in the White House, or anywhere else.  Life is meaningless, just ask our resident nihilists.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2017, 02:51:20 AM
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This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me wish the Deep South would secede again.  I sure as shit wouldn't stop them.

New England puritans wanted to secede first ... good riddance?  The original PC was from Boston, and prudery too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 15, 2017, 12:28:55 AM
retreat to Catalina Island.... those rafts wont be able to cross the current ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 15, 2017, 01:57:12 AM
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Hell, they have people in Alabama saying they'll vote for Roy Moore even if the allegations against him are true.  They're so bound up in their political prejudices they'd be willing to send a child molester to the Senate just because there's an 'R' after his name and he says 'JAYZUS!' louder than his opponent.  And then they claim they're the ones with a special pipeline to (their) god.

That said, the polling after the accusations were made public show Moore and Jones roughly at parity, or Moore ahead but only within the margin of error of the poll.  I can't remember the last time a Democrat was competitive in Alabama.  I think it might've been 1978, but I'd genuinely have to google it.

When Republicans in any place say they would rather have a Republican Senator who is a pedophile than a Democratic Senator who is generally conservative and qualified . that is a very bad situation. 

Ans let me say this...  I don't think a conservative Democratic Senator from Alabama is going to be any solid vote for Democrats in the Senate.  Conservative is still conservative.  But it would be hard to find anyone crazier and less ethical than Roy Moore.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2017, 02:09:04 AM
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retreat to Catalina Island.... those rafts wont be able to cross the current ;-)

Been there, done that ... 1968.  But went on the tourist boat.  Wasn't so poor I needed a raft.  Catalina was owned by the chewing gum conspiracy, and they did illegal gambling there, back in the day, before Las Vegas.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2017, 02:10:13 AM
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When Republicans in any place say they would rather have a Republican Senator who is a pedophile than a Democratic Senator who is generally conservative and qualified . that is a very bad situation. 

Ans let me say this...  I don't think a conservative Democratic Senator from Alabama is going to be any solid vote for Democrats in the Senate.  Conservative is still conservative.  But it would be hard to find anyone crazier and less ethical than Roy Moore.

Republicans/former Southern Democats .. really want you down on the plantation picking cotton.  They have had enough of the Copperheads too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 15, 2017, 02:40:31 AM
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Republicans/former Southern Democats .. really want you down on the plantation picking cotton.  They have had enough of the Copperheads too.

While I know you mean well, you should probably study US history a bit more accurately.  Copperheads were Northerners who supported secession.  You meant "carpetbaggers".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2017, 07:18:04 PM
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While I know you mean well, you should probably study US history a bit more accurately.  Copperheads were Northerners who supported secession.  You meant "carpetbaggers".

Carpetbaggers were Jews, so you support Gen Grant's infamous order in Tennessee?  A Jew was Sec of War for the Confederacy, that didn't happen under Lincoln.

Yeah, the analogy was strained.  Blue dog Ds are Rs in disguise.  Copperheads were enemies of Lincoln in the N states.  The emphasis being on "enemy" within your own lines.

A R official that supports a pedophile R candidate, is like an R official of that time, who supported the Copperheads.  R pedophiles are internal enemies of the R party.  Just as D pedophiles are internal enemies of the De party.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 16, 2017, 01:17:53 AM
you mean like the wmn that says Bill Clinton raped her in 1978?

Its a sick sick world..... (forgot the rest of that quote)

and then there’s JFK and Donald Trump

the D party for decaying
and the R party for revolting


Lincoln was a vampire slayer so of course he has a lot of enemies ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2017, 06:35:42 AM
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you mean like the wmn that says Bill Clinton raped her in 1978?

Its a sick sick world..... (forgot the rest of that quote)

and then there’s JFK and Donald Trump

the D party for decaying
and the R party for revolting


Lincoln was a vampire slayer so of course he has a lot of enemies ;-)

It is necessary for every politician to be an unindicted felon ... that way the CIA can control them thru blackmail.  Worked for J Edgar too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 18, 2017, 12:27:34 AM
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Carpetbaggers were Jews, so you support Gen Grant's infamous order in Tennessee?  A Jew was Sec of War for the Confederacy, that didn't happen under Lincoln.

Yeah, the analogy was strained.  Blue dog Ds are Rs in disguise.  Copperheads were enemies of Lincoln in the N states.  The emphasis being on "enemy" within your own lines.

A R official that supports a pedophile R candidate, is like an R official of that time, who supported the Copperheads.  R pedophiles are internal enemies of the R party.  Just as D pedophiles are internal enemies of the De party.

Carpetbaggers were any Northener who moved the the South to start a business during the Reconstruction Era about 1865-1877.  The name comes from the habit of making satchels from worn carpets (waste not, want not).  Many brought Northern industrial skills to the rather un-industrialized South and actually started businesses which improved the impoverished Southern situation and employed former Confederate soldiers and freed slaves.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2017, 02:08:52 AM
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Carpetbaggers were any Northener who moved the the South to start a business during the Reconstruction Era about 1865-1877.  The name comes from the habit of making satchels from worn carpets (waste not, want not).  Many brought Northern industrial skills to the rather un-industrialized South and actually started businesses which improved the impoverished Southern situation and employed former Confederate soldiers and freed slaves.

Wrong.  It was Jewish itinerant salesmen from the North, that created anti-Semitism (just ask Gen Grant).  They quickly forgot who their Sec of War had been.  You are repeating a stereotype from Gone With The Wind.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2017, 02:09:37 AM
Trump election and Russia-gate predicted 2400 years ago!

“In a democracy, someone who fails to get elected to office can always console himself with the thought that there was something not quite fair about it.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 18, 2017, 03:05:52 AM
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Wrong.  It was Jewish itinerant salesmen from the North, that created anti-Semitism (just ask Gen Grant).  They quickly forgot who their Sec of War had been.  You are repeating a stereotype from Gone With The Wind.

Your anti-Semitism is recognized.

EOL
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2017, 03:11:56 AM
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Your anti-Semitism is recognized.

EOL

Just being honest about $&$^# Gentiles ;-)  You Yankees all think that Gone With The Wind is unedited truth.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 24, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
More plot thickening.

Flynn's legal team has stopped coöperating with Asshole's (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42105048), telling them that " they can no longer discuss the investigation into alleged Russia interference in the 2016 US election".

It is not known whether they're merely distancing themselves from the clusterfuck in the White House, negotiating a deal, or are actually coöperating with Mueller's investigation.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on November 24, 2017, 10:46:33 PM
Just because that one idiot who thinks Trump isn't racist might see it here...

(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23722297_2127512773926356_1167791995990792959_n.jpg?oh=dfa32c6a39ce86c2febd0317fd34cfd9&oe=5AD682F8)

I'm sure it's all coincidental.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 25, 2017, 10:30:46 AM
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More plot thickening.

Flynn's legal team has stopped coöperating with Asshole's (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42105048), telling them that " they can no longer discuss the investigation into alleged Russia interference in the 2016 US election".

It is not known whether they're merely distancing themselves from the clusterfuck in the White House, negotiating a deal, or are actually coöperating with Mueller's investigation.

That is true of any investigation ... you aren't supposed to do a trial by public opinion.  And suspects are supposed to cooperate with prosecution?  Really?  But yes, it would be so smart to continue to communicate with someone indicted or likely to be ... so your communications can be added to the pile of evidence ... not!

So far, what seems to be the case, is that Flynn is guilty of influence peddling with the Turkish government, over Gulen.  But if it is a CIA op, then no matter what he did, it is still legal.  Same as the CIA assassination of JFK.  They may have a show trial, but find him innocent on a technicality.  Of just not indict him.  But none of that has anything to do with Russia.  If Flynn was working for the CIA and they choose to sacrifice him, that would be a bad mistake on their part.  If Flynn wasn't working for the CIA, then he is going to jail, but probably of the country club type.  On the other hand, it might be a double cross, that Flynn was trying to get Erdogan to show his cards ... so that something can be done about Erdogan (similar to a cop posing as a drug user to bring down a drug dealer).  Gulen seems to be a billionaire crime lord, who works for the US (as does Soros).  He will probably die in US exile, but in his sleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QseSvczllw

However ...

Gülen: "Muslims have a unique responsibility in fighting terror." ... officially, they are pacifist, support education and medical care.  Think of Chinese Communist opposition to Falun Gong in China.

And we all know that the US is behind all terrorism world-wide.  The Muslim terror in particular (Wilson's War).  So what is CIA up to with Gulen or Erdogan?  Double cross or triple cross?  I have Gulen's book on Sufi contemplation, that that may put me three-degrees of separation from Trump ;-).  Nothing radical in it.  Of course Salafists hate all Sufis, so the Saudis must hate him too.  And Erdogan is clearly a megalomaniac (wants to be Caliph of all Muslims) and proto-dictator (though not as bad as NorKs).  But that is usually the kind of ally the US prefers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on November 25, 2017, 12:27:17 PM
can’t condemn Moore cause he’s as dirty as him.

They forgot about Putin. Trump still hasnt pointed any fingers at Putin.

Baruch that is usually the kind of ally the U.S. prefers: It makes the CIA’s work so much easier because wannabe dictators aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty. and if they have money the CIA gets to keep their own.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 25, 2017, 01:10:13 PM
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can’t condemn Moore cause he’s as dirty as him.

They forgot about Putin. Trump still hasnt pointed any fingers at Putin.

Baruch that is usually the kind of ally the U.S. prefers: It makes the CIA’s work so much easier because wannabe dictators aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty. and if they have money the CIA gets to keep their own.

Actually Trump and Putin had an hour long conversation during or after the Vietnam regional summit ... anyone not Machiavellian is a fool.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/21/trump-putin-russia-syria-257407

I fail to see why Americans want nuclear war with Russia or China.  Is the US done messing up every other country on Earth?  Apparently not.

More on Flynn vs Turkey:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/25/michael-flynn-turkey-215865

The Deep State is not of one mind, but a coalition of competing interests.  Pro and anti-military coup, pro and anti-Gulen, pro and anti-Erdogan.  America is a cheap whore, for sale to everyone.  Turkey has been manipulated into genocidal paranoia before, in 1915.  Internal dissidents were blamed for Turkish military failures ... Armenians and Kurds and Greeks ... genocide was the result.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Nonsensei on November 25, 2017, 09:14:32 PM
Trump would need to actually break a law in order to be impeached. Unfortunately, not helping PR enough is not a criminal act nor is not being aware that PR inhabitants are U.S. citizens.

I am similarly not convinced that Trump had direct knowledge of any collusion with Russia because there's no reason for him to. He has people who would handle that sort of thing in his campaign and, indeed, what we are seeing is the people in his campaign getting nabbed by investigations but not a single thing solidly tying him to the collusion. An even moderately competent scheme would have him totally insulated from the wrongdoing.

The best we can hope from this investigation is that Trump is politically gutted by having a ton of highly placed people in his campaign thrown in jail for collusion. On the other hand, the rules of sanity don't really apply to Trump. He makes baseless assertions, and then when he is confronted with facts that prove his assertion wrong, he just makes up more assertions to discredit those facts. This got him into the White House so he would use it here.

I'm sure no matter how strong the evidence is he will just label it a liberal smear campaign and at least 30% of voters will believe him.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 26, 2017, 02:09:04 AM
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Just being honest about $&$^# Gentiles ;-)  You Yankees all think that Gone With The Wind is unedited truth.

A few movies I think are utter fiction:

Birth Of A Nation
Gone With The wind
Star Wars
Star Trek
Terminator
Alien
The Wizard Of Oz
Up
Despicable Me
Every James Bond Movie
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 26, 2017, 09:47:06 AM
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A few movies I think are utter fiction:

Birth Of A Nation
Gone With The wind
Star Wars
Star Trek
Terminator
Alien
The Wizard Of Oz
Up
Despicable Me
Every James Bond Movie

But did you enjoy any of them?  That is the point, not to used them as policy positions.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on December 01, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Okay, Flynn's not only copped to a crime, but is coöperating with Mueller (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42192080).  The White House announced that "nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr Flynn" and then immediately cancelled a scheduled appearance by Asshole in front of reporters.

Oh, and predictably, he's trying to weasel out of meaningful punishment by hiding behind his god and pretending he's really fully reformed and doesn't need to be punished: "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right".  Coward.  A real man would stand up and say "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and I am prepared to accept my punishment, and shall continue to work to make amends for what I have done".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 01, 2017, 06:53:11 PM
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Okay, Flynn's not only copped to a crime, but is coöperating with Mueller (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42192080).  The White House announced that "nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr Flynn" and then immediately cancelled a scheduled appearance by Asshole in front of reporters.

Oh, and predictably, he's trying to weasel out of meaningful punishment by hiding behind his god and pretending he's really fully reformed and doesn't need to be punished: "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right".  Coward.  A real man would stand up and say "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and I am prepared to accept my punishment, and shall continue to work to make amends for what I have done".

I want Flynn to take off his mask, and reveal the big eyed Grey alien underneath ;-)  I think enhanced interrogation is mandated, for all D-R officials.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 02, 2017, 02:20:31 AM
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Okay, Flynn's not only copped to a crime, but is coöperating with Mueller (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42192080).  The White House announced that "nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr Flynn" and then immediately cancelled a scheduled appearance by Asshole in front of reporters.

Oh, and predictably, he's trying to weasel out of meaningful punishment by hiding behind his god and pretending he's really fully reformed and doesn't need to be punished: "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right".  Coward.  A real man would stand up and say "I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong and I am prepared to accept my punishment, and shall continue to work to make amends for what I have done".

Flynn turned.  He got the "out Of Jail Free" card from Mueller.  Which means he provided serious information on higher-ups.  And there aren't many higher-ups other than Trump and family... 

It is the end of the beginning...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on December 02, 2017, 08:42:31 AM
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Flynn turned.  He got the "out Of Jail Free" card from Mueller.  Which means he provided serious information on higher-ups.  And there aren't many higher-ups other than Trump and family... 

It is the end of the beginning...
I am not so sure; while I hope with every fiber in my body that you are correct, I will not think justice will come to Trump and Co. until it actually does.  Will Trump use the excuse of a Korean War to establish martial law and then dictatorship (with the Hitler blueprint)?  Far fetched?  Okay.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2017, 09:14:24 AM
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I am not so sure; while I hope with every fiber in my body that you are correct, I will not think justice will come to Trump and Co. until it actually does.  Will Trump use the excuse of a Korean War to establish martial law and then dictatorship (with the Hitler blueprint)?  Far fetched?  Okay.

When George W came in, they were divided ... war against China (remember the US spy plane forced down) or war against ME.  The Chinese got lucky.  New Republican administration ... war against NorK or war against Iran?  Look at either very carefully.  When you least expect it, the US will invade Lichtenstein ... and lose.

On NorK ... in 1950, it was a patrol by SoK that triggered the inevitable NorK response.  If it is a war in Korea, it will be by mistake by the SoK government triggering the inevitable NorK response.  The real question is, how to keep Japan on the US side, instead of becoming a colony of China.  It depends on what Japan does ultimately.  NorK control of SoK ... means a destabilized Japan ... and China is more free to pressure or occupy Taiwan.

The US has planned war against Iran since 1979.  It all depends on what the SA crown prince is doing, and the Qatar connection (SA want excuse to take their natural gas (because colluding with Iran or whatever).  Iran will not directly attack SA, unless directly attacked first.  In which case, Riyadh and the gulf oil fields are taken out, and oil goes to $150 per barrel, and everyone is happy again.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on December 02, 2017, 11:12:48 AM
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When George W came in, they were divided ... war against China (remember the US spy plane forced down) or war against ME.  The Chinese got lucky.  New Republican administration ... war against NorK or war against Iran?  Look at either very carefully.  When you least expect it, the US will invade Lichtenstein ... and lose.

On NorK ... in 1950, it was a patrol by SoK that triggered the inevitable NorK response.  If it is a war in Korea, it will be by mistake by the SoK government triggering the inevitable NorK response.  The real question is, how to keep Japan on the US side, instead of becoming a colony of China.  It depends on what Japan does ultimately.  NorK control of SoK ... means a destabilized Japan ... and China is more free to pressure or occupy Taiwan.

The US has planned war against Iran since 1979.  It all depends on what the SA crown prince is doing, and the Qatar connection (SA want excuse to take their natural gas (because colluding with Iran or whatever).  Iran will not directly attack SA, unless directly attacked first.  In which case, Riyadh and the gulf oil fields are taken out, and oil goes to $150 per barrel, and everyone is happy again.
The US, within one or several intel branches, has multiple plans for each AO (Area of Operation) in the world; and they are always being re-evaluated.  I mean that the US had plans for war with/or in, each country of the world, friendly or not.  I've seen a few of these myself, but know that there are teams always working on all of them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2017, 12:24:14 PM
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The US, within one or several intel branches, has multiple plans for each AO (Area of Operation) in the world; and they are always being re-evaluated.  I mean that the US had plans for war with/or in, each country of the world, friendly or not.  I've seen a few of these myself, but know that there are teams always working on all of them.

And there are competing versions of the Dark State ... there isn't just one, even within a country.  I am sure that our Dark State isn't in full accord with the British version.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump!!!!
Post by: trdsf on December 02, 2017, 05:09:22 PM
And Asshole just admitted to obstruction of justice on Twitter (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/937007006526959618).  If he knew Flynn lied when Flynn resigned/was fired, and the day after that he asked Comey to back off, that is the definition of obstruction of justice.

I think we can take the question marks off this thread's title.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump!!!!
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2017, 08:00:09 PM
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And Asshole just admitted to obstruction of justice on Twitter (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/937007006526959618).  If he knew Flynn lied when Flynn resigned/was fired, and the day after that he asked Comey to back off, that is the definition of obstruction of justice.

I think we can take the question marks off this thread's title.

I wouldn't have asked Comey to back off.  I would have fired him on inauguration day.  That and every other turd appointed by Obama.

This is what D party folks consider to be professional journalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=130&v=d7Uy0Uznw4E
Title: Re: Impeach Trump!!!!
Post by: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 04:07:55 AM
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I wouldn't have asked Comey to back off.  I would have fired him on inauguration day.  That and every other turd appointed by Obama.

This is what D party folks consider to be professional journalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=130&v=d7Uy0Uznw4E

You are spinning out of control again, Baruch...  Get a grip.  Breathe deeply and often. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 04:58:32 AM
Spamming = objection to hysterical violent D party members?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 09, 2017, 06:00:54 AM
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Spamming = objection to hysterical violent D party members?

I'm a D (by pathetic choice, not party loyalty) and not feeling hysterical or violent...

Spamming meaning, false information to attack individuals.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 09:52:42 AM
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I'm a D (by pathetic choice, not party loyalty) and not feeling hysterical or violent...

Spamming meaning, false information to attack individuals.

False information like ... Hillary's email server?  And no, not every D party member is hysterical or violent ... just the "true" ones.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on December 10, 2017, 03:49:38 AM
Nonsensei you are wrong. No crime has to be committed to be impeached; unless you are refering to the attitude of republicans in Congress. go read the Constitution more carefully.

Congress can impeach any one for any reason. Or they can choose to overlook some very serious offenses. But what they can not do is ignore treason, bribery, or high crimes. If any of these 3 happens they have no choice but to impeach.

There are two definitions of treason. The common law definition; which puts people in prison; and the political definition which is only used for impeachment.

There is a really big argument and several books written about what exactly a high crime is...

Bribery. Everyone knows what that is without explanation. If you give money or something of value to someone for a favor, or someone gives you money or something of value for a favor, you’ve comitted bribery. Doesnt matter if you are giving or getting the benefit. 🤔 Holee Crap!!! If you are a representative in Congress and you change your vote to get money for your next election, you have committed an impeachable offense. I think that is more than half of Congress. How can the people have a proper impeachment when more than 50% need to be impeached??


Bill Clinton got impeached for having a BJ (maybe Congress was jealous). There is nothing to keep them from impeaching Trump for incompetence in the Constitution.


I am going to guess that they wont impeach him unless we force them to because they think that kissin up will get them reelected
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on December 10, 2017, 04:03:30 AM
Quote
I am going to guess that they wont impeach him unless we force them to because they think that kissin up will get them reelected

Not just that, but he is getting done some of the worst shit they have wanted for years. They may distance themselves from him for popularity reasons, but I am sure the majority of Republicans are loving the results... if not the man getting them done.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 12, 2017, 02:24:10 AM
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False information like ... Hillary's email server?  And no, not every D party member is hysterical or violent ... just the "true" ones.

Hillary Clinton's email server never turned out to have any unsecure or valuable information on it.  It was examined.  Nothing was found.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2017, 07:10:04 AM
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Hillary Clinton's email server never turned out to have any unsecure or valuable information on it.  It was examined.  Nothing was found.

And you want me to respect you?  It had numerous classified materials on it.  Part of which was shared with her daughter (on the Bengazi issue) ... stuff that was above Top Secret.  Are you really Mr Comey ... or that lower ranking FBI Hillary hack they have disclosed ... re-wrote the initial assessment of the server-gate?  Right ... just fake news.  Well, you are a fake bear (sometimes) ... or just a hack for the DNC.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
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And you want me to respect you?  It had numerous classified materials on it.  Part of which was shared with her daughter (on the Bengazi issue) ... stuff that was above Top Secret.  Are you really Mr Comey ... or that lower ranking FBI Hillary hack they have disclosed ... re-wrote the initial assessment of the server-gate?  Right ... just fake news.  Well, you are a fake bear (sometimes) ... or just a hack for the DNC.

Yep, I confess.  I'm a hack fer Hillary.

Not!  LOL!

Seriously, the Benghazi investigations always were true fake news.  Nothing there to find any more than the pathetic Comet Pizza sex trade scam pushed by Fox News. 

The long investigations of Clinton's emails never exposed anything and they weren't hackable.  There IS something to be said for a server the Russians even couldn't find. 

I assume you DO understand that voting for someone doesn't make one a "hack", right?

You would do better (and I hope you will) by arguing more facts and fewer innuendos.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 12:38:53 PM
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For someone on the fire right you hide it well Baruch. I thought you were a moderate or a wildcard.
This is only now becoming obvious to you?  I find that hard to take seriously.  But I'm happy you finally realize it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 12:45:56 PM
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But what they can not do is ignore treason, bribery, or high crimes. If any of these 3 happens they have no choice but to impeach.

Sadly, wrong.  Nothing and no one can FORCE Congress to impeach a President. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 12:52:04 PM
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This is only now becoming obvious to you?  I find that hard to take seriously.  But I'm happy you finally realize it.

At the risk of repeating myself, Baruch is far-right, ultra-religious, and maybe anarchist in a pre-WWI European sense.  I doubt he entirely rational.  All readers here should keep that in mind. 

Knowledge does not equal intelligence does not equal rationality.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 12:57:06 PM
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At the risk of repeating myself, Baruch is far-right, ultra-religious, and maybe anarchist in a pre-WWI European sense.  I doubt he entirely rational.  All readers here should keep that in mind. 

Knowledge does not equal intelligence does not equal rationality.
Somewhere in my memory, I remember Brauch saying something to the effect that rationality is to be abhorred.  But I doubt I could find that post, and I may have misinterpreted.  However, in my defense, I am seldom able to make heads or tales out of half of what he says.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 01:06:28 PM
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Somewhere in my memory, I remember Brauch saying something to the effect that rationality is to be abhorred.  But I doubt I could find that post, and I may have misinterpreted.  However, in my defense, I am seldom able to make heads or tales out of half of what he says.

Nor can I sometimes.  And nor can he.  It is one reason he makes silly jokes a lot.  It hides his lack of depth.  It gives him a diversion.  Rather like Trump.

I think of Baruch as like William Jennings Bryan.  I won't remember this accurately, but something like "a mile wide but as shallow as a plate".  You get the idea though. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:44:58 PM
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This is only now becoming obvious to you?  I find that hard to take seriously.  But I'm happy you finally realize it.

Definitely a wildcard, but not a maverick.  I am not McCain, I don't even like him.

Sorry, you refugees from Woodstock 1.0 ... 2.0 ... etc think anyone with any common sense is The Man.  Well I am man, even a male demigod, but I am not The Man.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:46:07 PM
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Sadly, wrong.  Nothing and no one can FORCE Congress to impeach a President.

Show the shit show, the real Zapruder tape, and they will suck their own dicks like a Mongolian contortionist, if asked nicely to do so.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:47:19 PM
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At the risk of repeating myself, Baruch is far-right, ultra-religious, and maybe anarchist in a pre-WWI European sense.  I doubt he entirely rational.  All readers here should keep that in mind. 

Knowledge does not equal intelligence does not equal rationality.

I agree.  Now y'all go an apply it to your addle-pated selves ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:50:09 PM
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Somewhere in my memory, I remember Brauch saying something to the effect that rationality is to be abhorred.  But I doubt I could find that post, and I may have misinterpreted.  However, in my defense, I am seldom able to make heads or tales out of half of what he says.

Context is everything.  You have to read all of my posts, all my likes, all other people's posts, and all their likes ... for the last 30 months.  Get crackin'.

My output is cumulative and comprehensive.  Others might suffer from short term memory loss.

But I can comment on your paraphrase .. in context ... rationality is tautology, and tautology is stale and lifeless.  Life comes from contingency, not tautology, with a good kick in the ass from self contradiction.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 07:51:32 PM
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Nor can I sometimes.  And nor can he.  It is one reason he makes silly jokes a lot.  It hides his lack of depth.  It gives him a diversion.  Rather like Trump.

I think of Baruch as like William Jennings Bryan.  I won't remember this accurately, but something like "a mile wide but as shallow as a plate".  You get the idea though.

Well I will admit that Clarence Darrow was a sharper butter knife than William Jennings Bryan.  But both were old men at the Scopes trial.  And you are still wrong about the Cross Of Gold speech.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 03:40:37 AM
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Well I will admit that Clarence Darrow was a sharper butter knife than William Jennings Bryan.  But both were old men at the Scopes trial.  And you are still wrong about the Cross Of Gold speech.

Took you 5 posts to get to this? 

You want our currency to be based on SILVER?  You've got to be jesting (as usual). 

The best thing Bryan did for his reputation was die after the Scopes trial.  Otherwise he would be a minor footnote in history.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
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Took you 5 posts to get to this? 

You want our currency to be based on SILVER?  You've got to be jesting (as usual). 

The best thing Bryan did for his reputation was die after the Scopes trial.  Otherwise he would be a minor footnote in history.

Actually not ... US currency should be based on cow patties.  And what about all this hatred for someone who died before you were born, and you never met?  Well maybe the stupid Scopes trial is triggering ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 11:14:13 AM
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Actually not ... US currency should be based on cow patties.  And what about all this hatred for someone who died before you were born, and you never met?  Well maybe the stupid Scopes trial is triggering ;-)

You think that I shouldn't care about people who died before I was born?  Lincoln died before I was born.  John Adams died before I was born.  Somewhere there was a male and a female who were first considered "human" (at different times) before I was born.

And untold bloody butchering theists died before I was born.  They all affected my life, so I care about them. 

And cow patties make bad currency.  Otherwise, dung beetles would be the bankers.  Hmmm, perhaps... But silver did not then and does not now.  The economists at the time of Bryan realized that.  Which is why you don't see Bryan's Head in the Futurama Hall of President Heads (or lists in history books today).

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
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You think that I shouldn't care about people who died before I was born?  Lincoln died before I was born.  John Adams died before I was born.  Somewhere there was a male and a female who were first considered "human" (at different times) before I was born.

And untold bloody butchering theists died before I was born.  They all affected my life, so I care about them. 

And cow patties make bad currency.  Otherwise, dung beetles would be the bankers.  Hmmm, perhaps... But silver did not then and does not now.  The economists at the time of Bryan realized that.  Which is why you don't see Bryan's Head in the Futurama Hall of President Heads (or lists in history books today).

I almost had you worshipping Kephra, the Egyptian beetle god who pushes the Sun across the sky!

According to the US Constitution, silver is money, and the mint simply is to take silver provided by the private sector, and Mint it into coin. with a small surcharge back to the Mint.  Copper coin was the only Federal money, provided as a public convenience.  Small quantities of gold coin were also minted on private sector demand, but we didn't have much gold to share initially.

The gold standard was an invention of the Bank of England, and really got going in 1816 after the end of the Napoleonic wars.  The British Empire and their Bank, screwed the US and everyone else for decades after that, first with loans to the various US Federal Banks (predecessors to the Federal Reserve) then screwed over Lincoln (loans in the form of interest bearing currency (some was fiat, but some was interest bearing bonds), and by 1871 had the US by the short hairs.  This tightening of the screws by the British, continued from 1871 until 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created, so that the US could help the British Empire in their predations, though it mostly went to support WW I.  WW I broke the back of the Empires in general, and the post WW I attempt to return to the gold standard, failed, because of the degree of breakdown in the British Empire.  Pound Sterling (aka Silver) was also debased as a result of WW I.  The Europeans never recovered enough before WW II started.  US (FDR) control of the gold markets from 1933, let to the Bretton-Woods system (designed to help Europe recover further thru stable Atlantic trade and loans) in 1944, and which ended in 1971, thanks to France, and the Vietnam War.

So that is all fantasy huh?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
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I almost had you worshipping Kephra, the Egyptian beetle god who pushes the Sun across the sky!

According to the US Constitution, silver is money, and the mint simply is to take silver provided by the private sector, and Mint it into coin. with a small surcharge back to the Mint.  Copper coin was the only Federal money, provided as a public convenience.  Small quantities of gold coin were also minted on private sector demand, but we didn't have much gold to share initially.

The gold standard was an invention of the Bank of England, and really got going in 1816 after the end of the Napoleonic wars.  The British Empire and their Bank, screwed the US and everyone else for decades after that, first with loans to the various US Federal Banks (predecessors to the Federal Reserve) then screwed over Lincoln (loans in the form of interest bearing currency (some was fiat, but some was interest bearing bonds), and by 1871 had the US by the short hairs.  This tightening of the screws by the British, continued from 1871 until 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created, so that the US could help the British Empire in their predations, though it mostly went to support WW I.  WW I broke the back of the Empires in general, and the post WW I attempt to return to the gold standard, failed, because of the degree of breakdown in the British Empire.  Pound Sterling (aka Silver) was also debased as a result of WW I.  The Europeans never recovered enough before WW II started.  US (FDR) control of the gold markets from 1933, let to the Bretton-Woods system (designed to help Europe recover further thru stable Atlantic trade and loans) in 1944, and which ended in 1971, thanks to France, and the Vietnam War.

So that is all fantasy huh?

No, your preaching to the choir in a way.  I know the history.  But we went off the silver standard a century ago and the gold standard a half ago.  Currency is mostly fictitious now, just accepted IOUs.  Although I have some silver certificates stashed as $2 bills.  Only for history and humor. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
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No, your preaching to the choir in a way.  I know the history.  But we went off the silver standard a century ago and the gold standard a half ago.  Currency is mostly fictitious now, just accepted IOUs.  Although I have some silver certificates stashed as $2 bills.  Only for history and humor.

Yes ... history had moved on, but that means the status quo approaches death ever more closely.  Technically we went off the domestic silver market in 1965, to fund the Vietnam War.  The international gold standard was badly hurt from 1914 - 1944, enough that the domestic gold standard couldn't hold up.  The artificially fixed price of silver and gold (relative to FR notes) was ... a fools game in the long run ... fantasy of omnipotent governments, not unlike the Euro now.  LBJ knew that doing both guns and butter was inflationary.  So how does the death of the present, which dies each second, sound to you?  Tick-tock, tick-tock.  Entropy is real, progress is the delusion that on net, we can borrow from Peter to pay Paul, and exponentially too.  Progress only seems to happen, because we aren't doing the accounting properly (including all streams).  We privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on December 26, 2017, 03:16:11 PM
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You are spinning out of control again, Baruch...  Get a grip.  Breathe deeply and often. 
Maybe a bit less LSD would also be in order...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 03:21:42 PM
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Maybe a bit less LSD would also be in order...

Zombie thread much?  I get high on myself, saves a lot of money and police questioning.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on December 26, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
Oh, I'm so proud of you!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on December 27, 2017, 11:35:55 PM
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Well I will admit that Clarence Darrow was a sharper butter knife than William Jennings Bryan.  But both were old men at the Scopes trial.  And you are still wrong about the Cross Of Gold speech.
are you talking about microScopes, teleScopes, or oscilloScopes? and why would you take any of them apart with a butter knife?


I find the arguments between Baruch and Cavebear to always be entertaining. Baruch: an enigma because he is a wildcard. Cavebear: a man that has the freedom of not ever being brain-washed by religion.


I just read that part of the Constitution again. It says Congress has the responsibility to coin money for the U.S.. It also says that it is up to Congress to determine the current coin of the realm. (no mention of silver regarding Congress) After that is says the states are not allowed to coin money. Interestingly enough, it says that the states are only allowed to pay debts with gold or silver.

My interpretation is that Congress can make paper money if they want to (to pay the U.S. debts to the states) but the states can only pay their debts to the U.S. with gold or silver. Its a set-up for some ridiculous problems.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2017, 06:36:25 AM
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are you talking about microScopes, teleScopes, or oscilloScopes? and why would you take any of them apart with a butter knife?


I find the arguments between Baruch and Cavebear to always be entertaining. Baruch: an enigma because he is a wildcard. Cavebear: a man that has the freedom of not ever being brain-washed by religion.


I just read that part of the Constitution again. It says Congress has the responsibility to coin money for the U.S.. It also says that it is up to Congress to determine the current coin of the realm. (no mention of silver regarding Congress) After that is says the states are not allowed to coin money. Interestingly enough, it says that the states are only allowed to pay debts with gold or silver.

My interpretation is that Congress can make paper money if they want to (to pay the U.S. debts to the states) but the states can only pay their debts to the U.S. with gold or silver. Its a set-up for some ridiculous problems.

Yes, the Federal government was tied down, with only excise taxes for income.  The Treasury needed accepted money for its own use (gold and silver).  And of course the Feds will always exploit the States (one of the reasons for the Civil War).

Eventually, that exploitation was extended to the Income Tax.  You are only allowed to pay it with US currency, so you have to get some, to pay your taxes.  You can't use BitCoin.

How did early Congress interpret that provision?  Spanish milled dollars (piece of eight) was the definition of a dollar.  Coinage act of 1792.  George Washington himself contributed his silverware from Mt Vernon, for the first half dismes (dimes).  The Constitution is always undermined, by "applicable legislation" as implied by how each term is interpreted by Congress.  And the WH undermines, by using signing statements (ukase).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1792_half_disme

http://jpatton.bellevue.edu/bottomline/dollar.html

This also regulated the relative value of gold vs silver, which created problems (the gold coin got exported to Britain for melting, because the gold was undervalued relative to silver).  Of course Congress changed their mind.  Hamilton argued for a central bank and got it.  America had been burned by Continental Currency during the Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency#Continental_currency

The Spanish milled dollar remained legal currency in the US until 1857.  Yes, Congress can define a dollar as such and such a fraction of BitCoin.
---------
The Constitutional amendment to define the Fed and Income Tax is an enigma, basically a blank check on you!  It was sold because of it's modest amount and it would only apply to the very rich.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act

The first US central tank issued only bank-to-bank notes.  They weren't for circulation.  That didn't start until 1914.

Basically, our great-grandparents enslaved us to J P Morgan and Congressional hubris (spending like a drunk sailor).

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 01:58:54 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting if the US govt announced that bitcoin is an illegal pyramid scheme?  CRASH!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 02:35:52 PM
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Wouldn't it be interesting if the US govt announced that bitcoin is an illegal pyramid scheme?  CRASH!

All governments are illegal pyramid schemes ... just ask Pharaoh.  But as long as the government has the monopoly of violence ... best to go along.

If there ever is a regular block-chain money, it will only come from the Federal Reserve or Bank of England ... not from private parties.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 06, 2018, 01:34:34 PM
Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


Trump on Democrats who failed to clap for him: 'Can we call that treason? Why not?' (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-on-democrats-who-failed-to-clap-1517863448-htmlstory.html)

I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on February 06, 2018, 01:47:56 PM
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Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


Trump on Democrats who failed to clap for him: 'Can we call that treason? Why not?' (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-on-democrats-who-failed-to-clap-1517863448-htmlstory.html)

I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!
If only you would be right.  I think Trump invented teflon.  Nothing sticks.  Basically he is doing whatever he wants to whoever he wants to. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 06, 2018, 01:59:20 PM
Well, Reagan was called the Teflon president, but Chump is even more slippery!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 06, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
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Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


Trump on Democrats who failed to clap for him: 'Can we call that treason? Why not?' (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-on-democrats-who-failed-to-clap-1517863448-htmlstory.html)

I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!
I think we're a closer to the point where we need to impeach while it's still possible than anyone wants to think.  He's actively cultivating a cult of personality, and at risk of invoking Godwin's Law, we've seen where that sort of thing leads.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on February 06, 2018, 03:02:36 PM
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I think we're a closer to the point where we need to impeach while it's still possible than anyone wants to think.  He's actively cultivating a cult of personality, and at risk of invoking Godwin's Law, we've seen where that sort of thing leads.
I don't think it is possible right now.  How in the world would the House agree to impeach?  It wouldn't.  If the congress changes to a Democratic one, then there is a slight glimmer of hope that it could happen.  But I don't even see that as very much of a possibility.  Our country is really, just so fucked up--I think it's called circling the drain.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 06, 2018, 03:37:45 PM
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I don't think it is possible right now.  How in the world would the House agree to impeach?  It wouldn't.  If the congress changes to a Democratic one, then there is a slight glimmer of hope that it could happen.  But I don't even see that as very much of a possibility.  Our country is really, just so fucked up--I think it's called circling the drain.
Politically, no, it's not possible, not with the current Congress.  Ryan would never let a serious threat of impeachment come to the floor.  The motion offered by Al Green (D-TX) in December was a privileged motion and required a floor vote, and Ryan was happy to allow that since there wasn't a hope in hell of it passing.  The separate motions offered by Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Steve Cohen (D-TN) were not privileged, and got assigned (properly, I might add) to the Judiciary Committee, where the Republican majority has simply failed to hold a hearing on them.

And that's the real danger in all this: the Republican majorities in the House and Senate are content to just keep looking the other way and looking the other way and looking the other way and occasionally issuing a mild 'tut tut' about some screamingly inappropriate/unethical comment from the Orange Disaster and just won't do anything about it until it's too late... and then it's too late.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Atheon on February 06, 2018, 03:56:24 PM
I look forward to pissing on trump's grave. Unfortunately, dictators live long lives. So I'll have to remain healthy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on February 06, 2018, 04:17:23 PM
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Politically, no, it's not possible, not with the current Congress.  Ryan would never let a serious threat of impeachment come to the floor.  The motion offered by Al Green (D-TX) in December was a privileged motion and required a floor vote, and Ryan was happy to allow that since there wasn't a hope in hell of it passing.  The separate motions offered by Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Steve Cohen (D-TN) were not privileged, and got assigned (properly, I might add) to the Judiciary Committee, where the Republican majority has simply failed to hold a hearing on them.

And that's the real danger in all this: the Republican majorities in the House and Senate are content to just keep looking the other way and looking the other way and looking the other way and occasionally issuing a mild 'tut tut' about some screamingly inappropriate/unethical comment from the Orange Disaster and just won't do anything about it until it's too late... and then it's too late.
I have never been a pessimistic kind of guy.  I have always maintained that the world is in the best condition it has ever been in.  But, since Trump, I really, really wonder.  Is it too late??--for this country it just might be.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 05:32:17 PM
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If only you would be right.  I think Trump invented teflon.  Nothing sticks.  Basically he is doing whatever he wants to whoever he wants to.

As opposed to Rep Joe Wilson, who yelled at Obama in an address to Congress "You Lie"!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 06:32:17 PM
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Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


Trump on Democrats who failed to clap for him: 'Can we call that treason? Why not?' (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-on-democrats-who-failed-to-clap-1517863448-htmlstory.html)

I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!

You mean the Hillary funded, Russian sourced, Obama approved October surprise ... which has blown up on the treasonous followers of the debauched D party leaders?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 06:34:12 PM
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As opposed to Rep Joe Wilson, who yelled at Obama in an address to Congress "You Lie"!

Obama is a politician.  Everything they say is a lie.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on February 06, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
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Obama is a politician.  Everything they say is a lie.
Joe Wilson is a politician too, so when he said Obama lied, he was lying.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 07:05:29 PM
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Joe Wilson is a politician too, so when he said Obama lied, he was lying.

Yes, so at this point, like the defeat of the magical dragon, you should shrink to infinity inside yourself ... because nature supposedly abhors a contradiction.

It will be fun waterboarding all the D party psychopaths ... the R party psychopaths of course think they are exempt ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 08:20:42 PM
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Yes, so at this point, like the defeat of the magical dragon, you should shrink to infinity inside yourself ... because nature supposedly abhors a contradiction.

It will be fun waterboarding all the D party psychopaths ... the R party psychopaths of course think they are exempt ...

You are withdrawing into sarc again.

Which magical dragon are you referring to?  The red and white dragons of Myrlyn, or those of the Chinese, or Dragonball Z, etc? 

I hope you aren't supporting waterboarding anyone in reality...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 06, 2018, 11:10:08 PM
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You are withdrawing into sarc again.

Which magical dragon are you referring to?  The red and white dragons of Myrlyn, or those of the Chinese, or Dragonball Z, etc? 

I hope you aren't supporting waterboarding anyone in reality...

Not I ... but then that is why we have the State.  To discover enemies both foreign and domestic, and to dispose of them.  So yes, those who will, try their hand at revolution ... and be disposed of.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 06, 2018, 11:50:07 PM
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Not I ... but then that is why we have the State.  To discover enemies both foreign and domestic, and to dispose of them.  So yes, those who will, try their hand at revolution ... and be disposed of.

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical".  Jefferson
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:01:39 AM
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"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical".  Jefferson

Quote slave owners and slave rapists much?

And no, if you want a French Revolution, go to France to do it.  They need to be executed.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:06:01 AM
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Quote slave owners and slave rapists much?

And no, if you want a French Revolution, go to France to do it.  They need to be executed.

Every generation and century has things to be ashamed of.  The important thing is that we do our best to imagine a better world and struggle on, stammerring and shambling, towards it.

I dread to think what our descendants in 2118 will think of the horrible people WE were...

We could make a long list of things to be ashamed of...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:09:56 AM
You are simply excusing your poor choice of quotation.  If Jefferson believed anything he said, he would have manumitted his own slaves at death, or better yet while still alive.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:30:35 AM
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You are simply excusing your poor choice of quotation.  If Jefferson believed anything he said, he would have manumitted his own slaves at death, or better yet while still alive.

I won't be draw into  a complete defense of Jefferson.  He was wrong about some things, right about others. 

WE can do better.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on February 08, 2018, 01:30:01 AM
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Every generation and century has things to be ashamed of.

I dread to think what our descendants in 2118 will think of the horrible people WE were...

For this generation we should be ashamed of Dodart Jigalo Trump. What they say about us in 2118 will probably be influenced by our decision to keep him or get rid of him.



I think it would be a good idea for Mueller to prosecute Trump before Trump fires him. The Constitution requires that the president be impeached for criminal activity. There is no grounds to say he can not be prosecuted. Sitting members of Congress can be prosecuted when a real crime is committed. They can not be prosecuted on frivolous charges. Only in a republican wet-dream would Mueller be charging Trump on frivolous charges. BTW the Constitution says that the president can not pardon anyone for an impeachable offense. i.e. Trump can not pardon himself to get out of imprachment
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on February 08, 2018, 04:24:07 AM
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Every generation and century has things to be ashamed of.  The important thing is that we do our best to imagine a better world and struggle on, stammerring and shambling, towards it.

I dread to think what our descendants in 2118 will think of the horrible people WE were...

We could make a long list of things to be ashamed of...

In the future peopl will look in the past and say "Can you believe those barbarians had ate animals and were mostly hetrosexual?"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 08, 2018, 01:44:06 PM
Apparently Chump's never even been a billionaire - just a wanna-be! Nothing but a con man, that's our president:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELs9HF5xIPo
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on February 08, 2018, 01:57:45 PM
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Apparently Chump's never even been a billionaire - just a wanna-be! Nothing but a con man, that's our president:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELs9HF5xIPo
Why do you think he never revealed his tax returns??
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on February 08, 2018, 02:20:54 PM
Huh. Out of $200 million that he took in from his father altogether, and according to this, has maybe only $400 million. That's 50 years for a doubling time. That comes out to an interest rate of a measly 1.44%.

Yeah. Genius businessman. He could have literally put his $200 mil into a savings account and be richer than he is right now.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 08, 2018, 07:15:30 PM
Too bad the snowflakes are melting again, like a year ago.  Is this an annual thing now?

Sorry, if they knew then, what is known now ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOijFfqXWo

Bill Clinton would not only be the second President to be impeached (indicted) but also the first to be convicted.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:20:44 AM
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In the future peopl will look in the past and say "Can you believe those barbarians had ate animals and were mostly hetrosexual?"

If the future world is homosexual, there won't be many people, LOL!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:29:38 AM
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For this generation we should be ashamed of Dodart Jigalo Trump. What they say about us in 2118 will probably be influenced by our decision to keep him or get rid of him.



I think it would be a good idea for Mueller to prosecute Trump before Trump fires him. The Constitution requires that the president be impeached for criminal activity. There is no grounds to say he can not be prosecuted. Sitting members of Congress can be prosecuted when a real crime is committed. They can not be prosecuted on frivolous charges. Only in a republican wet-dream would Mueller be charging Trump on frivolous charges. BTW the Constitution says that the president can not pardon anyone for an impeachable offense. i.e. Trump can not pardon himself to get out of imprachment

A Republican Congress will never impeach Trump. 

Impeachment is not for regular crimes.  It is poorly understood.  The President can be "impeached" for anything.  It is a political decision by Congress to remove a President (and some other elected officials) from office. 

If impeached, a trial is conducted in the Senate.  IF convicted, the President is thereby removed from office.

THEN, the former President may or may not be charged with crimes in regular court.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 06:58:44 AM
Thanks.  You did learn something in poli-sci.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 09, 2018, 10:13:47 AM
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A Republican Congress will never impeach Trump. 

Impeachment is not for regular crimes.  It is poorly understood.  The President can be "impeached" for anything.  It is a political decision by Congress to remove a President (and some other elected officials) from office. 

If impeached, a trial is conducted in the Senate.  IF convicted, the President is thereby removed from office.

THEN, the former President may or may not be charged with crimes in regular court.
To the best of my knowledge, it's not entirely settled as to whether a president is immune from regular prosecution while in office.  The grand jury that handed down the Watergate indictments wanted to indict Nixon, but Jaworsky talked them down to only naming him an unindicted co-conspirator because he didn't want to open that can of Constitutional worms—it would have been a major distraction to the investigation.

I think—obligatory I Am Not A Lawyer here, but I am a PoliSci grad with a particular interest in Constitutional balances—that it's still an undecided matter if the President can be held responsible outside the impeachment process for a criminal matter, while still in office.  For political matters, only the impeachment process applies.

So, for example, if the Orange Disaster Area really did go out and shoot someone in Times Square, he couldn't hide behind executive privilege unless it could be demonstrated that it was in the course of executing (no pun intended) his duties and responsibilities under the Constitution, and even then he'd have a hell of a time of it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 12:54:26 PM
The law is always murky, either because human behavior is murky, or the legal profession is murky.  Nothing is ever settled, because there is always another jurisdiction or another judge.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 09, 2018, 01:48:47 PM
One other thing occurs to me, and I not only don't have a good answer either way on it, I don't even know which way I lean.

If a President is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate over a criminal matter, would further legal proceedings in the criminal court system constitute double jeopardy under the Fifth Amendment?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 09, 2018, 02:49:07 PM
I think he should be impeached just for this:



(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1518102074/180208-stern-trump-hair-tease_hiy8tu)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 03:43:49 PM
You can pine all day long for the nostalgic ideas of 3rd parties, but until someone or large groups of someone's can garner enough money to take over and control the mass media we're stuck with 2 parties. It's the monied interests that control politics and not mere wishful thinking about the 3rd party that has yet to make any significant dent.
The Rs and Ds still control by far the lions share of all the wealth in the world and without a militaristic overthrow they'll continue to control it...and who do you suppose controls the military?  Hint: It ain't 3rd party candidates. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 03:55:49 PM
Once Trump finishes his only term in office he can then be prosecuted fully and probably convicted and hopefully sent to serve the rest of his days in a maximum security prison.
It's probably never going to happen, but in legalese it could conceivably occur.
I'd prefer he be sent to Guantanamo and held in the Muslim radical section.. That would be some sweet justice.. It won't happen, but gee, sure would make my balls tingle with delight.. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 09, 2018, 04:49:45 PM
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You can pine all day long for the nostalgic ideas of 3rd parties, but until someone or large groups of someone's can garner enough money to take over and control the mass media we're stuck with 2 parties. It's the monied interests that control politics and not mere wishful thinking about the 3rd party that has yet to make any significant dent.
The Rs and Ds still control by far the lions share of all the wealth in the world and without a militaristic overthrow they'll continue to control it...and who do you suppose controls the military?  Hint: It ain't 3rd party candidates.
The most likely source for a moderately successful third party right now, alas, are the teabaggers, and all it will take is someone like the Kochs to bankroll it.

On the plus side, that would fracture the GOP right up the middle and a lot of congressional districts might go blue when the other votes are split between the classic GOP and the wingnuts.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:18:27 PM
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You can pine all day long for the nostalgic ideas of 3rd parties, but until someone or large groups of someone's can garner enough money to take over and control the mass media we're stuck with 2 parties. It's the monied interests that control politics and not mere wishful thinking about the 3rd party that has yet to make any significant dent.
The Rs and Ds still control by far the lions share of all the wealth in the world and without a militaristic overthrow they'll continue to control it...and who do you suppose controls the military?  Hint: It ain't 3rd party candidates.

It isn't the parties either.  The CIA controls the media, and both parties.  This is for your own good.  Now go on and pay attention to your own business, citizen.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:19:24 PM
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Once Trump finishes his only term in office he can then be prosecuted fully and probably convicted and hopefully sent to serve the rest of his days in a maximum security prison.
It's probably never going to happen, but in legalese it could conceivably occur.
I'd prefer he be sent to Guantanamo and held in the Muslim radical section.. That would be some sweet justice.. It won't happen, but gee, sure would make my balls tingle with delight..

If I were the father of the owner of a certain blue dress, I would skin some former President, alive (not really).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
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One other thing occurs to me, and I not only don't have a good answer either way on it, I don't even know which way I lean.

If a President is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate over a criminal matter, would further legal proceedings in the criminal court system constitute double jeopardy under the Fifth Amendment?

I don't think so.  Conviction in the Senate only results in loss of office, not jail time.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 10, 2018, 02:48:46 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed here yet, but it really scares me into thinking that theocracy isn't very far off for the U.S.A.:




Meet Donald Trump’s New Evangelical Advisory Board (https://thinkprogress.org/meet-donald-trumps-new-evangelical-advisory-board-6a5bfc5460d7/)

I may have heard about this before, somewhere, but I apparently forgot about it. It's not a thing I want to forget about, though, as dangerous as it seems to be.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 10, 2018, 02:59:08 PM
But then, there's this:

Trump’s environmental good news (https://religionnews.com/2018/02/06/trumps-environmental-good-news/)

Quote
The good news out of Washington is that the White House has withdrawn the nomination of Kathleen Hartnett White to head the President’s Council of Environmental Quality. A leading shill for the carbon industry, the one-time chair of the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality would have joined Energy Secretary Rick Perry and EPA Administrator Greg Pruitt in a troika of climate change deniers driving the Trump Administration’s environmental policies.


But his next pick for the post could be even worse. As I keep having to say over and over since the last election, we'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on February 10, 2018, 04:26:12 PM
Ah, of course.  The Orange Disaster Area is perfectly happy to release a Republican memo against the advice of both his DoJ and the FBI, but oh no he has to block the Democrats' memo, even though its release was unanimously approved by the House Intelligence committee (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43012430)—unlike Nunes' crayon scribblings, which went out on a party-line vote.  You know, the one that had a Russian-backed social media push to have it released (http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1).

This House would have already impeached any Democratic President who had done a tenth of this shit.  So instead of #ReleaseTheMemo, how about #FuckingRepublicanHypocrites?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 10, 2018, 06:50:52 PM
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I don't know if this has been discussed here yet, but it really scares me into thinking that theocracy isn't very far off for the U.S.A.:




Meet Donald Trump’s New Evangelical Advisory Board (https://thinkprogress.org/meet-donald-trumps-new-evangelical-advisory-board-6a5bfc5460d7/)

I may have heard about this before, somewhere, but I apparently forgot about it. It's not a thing I want to forget about, though, as dangerous as it seems to be.

How is that different than Reagan or George W?  Carter was/is a very religious Southern Baptist.  We were planned as the second Israel/Atlantis by Francis Bacon.  As you are an atheist, I am sure if there is even one religious person in your town, you are hiding under your bed ;-)  But that is unnecessary.  Most of us don't bite (and neither do atheists).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 10, 2018, 06:51:49 PM
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But then, there's this:

Trump’s environmental good news (https://religionnews.com/2018/02/06/trumps-environmental-good-news/)


But his next pick for the post could be even worse. As I keep having to say over and over since the last election, we'll just have to wait and see.

Stop carbon now, by walking to work/shopping.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 10, 2018, 06:54:47 PM
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Ah, of course.  The Orange Disaster Area is perfectly happy to release a Republican memo against the advice of both his DoJ and the FBI, but oh no he has to block the Democrats' memo, even though its release was unanimously approved by the House Intelligence committee (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43012430)—unlike Nunes' crayon scribblings, which went out on a party-line vote.  You know, the one that had a Russian-backed social media push to have it released (http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1).

This House would have already impeached any Democratic President who had done a tenth of this shit.  So instead of #ReleaseTheMemo, how about #FuckingRepublicanHypocrites?

The Republican memo was redacted, because it had to be.  The Democrat memo can be released too, after it is redacted.  It is D-party psychosis ... that there is a vast Right Wing conspiracy to aid our Reptilian invaders.  And of course R-party is hypocrites, they are traitors, same as the D-party traitors.  Y'all get a room, in the dark, with knives, and we will see who, if anyone, makes it out.  I can definitely not mind losing 200 million mentally broken Americans.  The remaining 120 million of us, won't miss either of you.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on February 11, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogBawPAgQjo

"The opposition party didn't clap for me.  Waahhh!"

Get this buffoon out of office ASAP.

*edit - Also, disingenuous editing.  The Dems sat stonefaced during some seriously objectionable boasts and Trump's least objectionable statements (and a "USA! USA!" chant) were dubbed over that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 11, 2018, 04:15:14 PM
I want a YouTube of a Clinton orgy on Pleasure Island ... courtesy of Jeffrey Epstein.  Who was friends with a lot of people, including Donald Trump.  In fact, I won't vote for another Presidential candidate, unless they are a porn star, and I can watch how well they perform on YouTube.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on February 11, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Yeah, those traitorous Democrats ought to move to France, or something. ;)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on February 11, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
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Yeah, those traitorous Democrats ought to move to France, or something. ;)

With time machine.  Particularly Madame Defarge.  Feminism didn't start in the US, in the 1960s.  Stick that in your croissant.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on February 12, 2018, 02:29:45 AM
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Once Trump finishes his only term in office he can then be prosecuted fully and probably convicted and hopefully sent to serve the rest of his days in a maximum security prison.
or in the psyche ward
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 02:30:27 AM
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One other thing occurs to me, and I not only don't have a good answer either way on it, I don't even know which way I lean.

If a President is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate over a criminal matter, would further legal proceedings in the criminal court system constitute double jeopardy under the Fifth Amendment?

The best explanation I have heard says basically that a President is immune to direct criminal indictment.  The correction is to impeach and convict the President removing him from office.  THEN the former President is subject to criminal indictments. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2018, 06:41:07 PM
If Hillary had been elected we'd never have the possibility of having a space force, but the Space Cadet in Chief will give us one!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfHPLpXKfWg



Presumably it would look a lot like this:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNzjOjW5ymw


Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2018, 07:02:20 PM
Started with President Reagan's Star Wars program.  I knew one of the program manager (contractor) proposal leaders (back in 1988).  My employer's proposal (I wasn't involved, natch) failed due to failure to listen carefully to the customer (find out what they want, before you propose to meet that want).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Command

Until last year it was ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Functional_Component_Command_for_Space

But as of this year it is ... a Joint Force Space Component under USSTRATCOM (I guess that makes it an HQ not a functional unit).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Strategic_Command

This over-all organization includes the recently created ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cyber_Command

NSA goes back to Bletchley Park cooperation between the US and Britain during WW II.

So yes, regardless of who the President is, this stuff is real, and has been for a long time.  Thank G-d the Brits have Dr Who and the Tardis!  Guess he was off fighting space monsters (or The Master) while the Russian turncoat and his daughter were hit with special nerve gas last week ;-(
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2018, 07:08:47 PM
Well, I'm sure we need a space force - how else will we be able to fight and defeat Ming the Merciless?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2018, 07:40:26 PM
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Well, I'm sure we need a space force - how else will we be able to fight and defeat Ming the Merciless?

You are no Flash Gordon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFwECV8Kkk

President Xi is Ming the Merciless.  All you round eyes, bow down now!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2018, 08:03:21 PM
No, I'm Flesh Gordon!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on March 15, 2018, 01:36:45 AM
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No, I'm Flesh Gordon!

I don't seem to have that one in my video collection.   But I would like to have the one Putin seems to have on Trump...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2018, 05:15:06 AM
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I don't seem to have that one in my video collection.   But I would like to have the one Putin seems to have on Trump...

Here is the one we have on Putin ... long live Russia!  I expect a like from Munch, for the usual reasons ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHaVH9HhfI
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on May 03, 2018, 10:30:18 PM
GODDAMN!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lgbt-alarm-as-trump-signs-religious-liberty-exec-order


Quote
[The order—first reported Wednesday night by Religion News Service—will “help ensure that faith-based organizations have equal access to government funding and equal right to exercise their deeply-held beliefs,” Trump said.

But if those last three words—“deeply-held beliefs”—sound familiar, it’s because they are often used to justify anti-LGBT legislation in the name of “religious freedom.” Indeed, LGBT advocates say that the executive order is yet another federal action that could potentially encourage discrimination against LGBT people in the name of religion.

“We’re very concerned because this administration has a pattern of inviting discrimination in the name of religion,” Camilla Taylor, Director of Constitutional Litigation for the LGBT legal advocacy group Lambda Legal, told The Daily Beast shortly before the Rose Garden event./quote]
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on May 04, 2018, 12:04:44 AM
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GODDAMN!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lgbt-alarm-as-trump-signs-religious-liberty-exec-order


Quote
[The order—first reported Wednesday night by Religion News Service—will “help ensure that faith-based organizations have equal access to government funding and equal right to exercise their deeply-held beliefs,” Trump said.

But if those last three words—“deeply-held beliefs”—sound familiar, it’s because they are often used to justify anti-LGBT legislation in the name of “religious freedom.” Indeed, LGBT advocates say that the executive order is yet another federal action that could potentially encourage discrimination against LGBT people in the name of religion.

“We’re very concerned because this administration has a pattern of inviting discrimination in the name of religion,” Camilla Taylor, Director of Constitutional Litigation for the LGBT legal advocacy group Lambda Legal, told The Daily Beast shortly before the Rose Garden event.
As if I needed another reason to vote in next Tuesday's primary and this fall's general... I've really had enough of this christian sharia bullshit.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 04, 2018, 05:43:52 AM
By all means, vote.  But it takes even more than voting to promote whatever X agenda you have.  You have to participate in the guts of whatever party you support, for free.  And throw money at them too ... and not just during elections.  Voters are passive aggressive, when they aren't passive passive.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on May 04, 2018, 01:33:21 PM
It seems we've taken another step in the path leading to theocracy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 04, 2018, 06:27:38 PM
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It seems we've taken another step in the path leading to theocracy.

Sorry, atheism will always be a minority position, same as vegetarianism.  Nothing wrong with it, but manifest destiny it ain't.

The US was founded by deists, freemasons, christians, jews ... not too many muslims around back then.  But there was Egyptmania .. courtesy of the freemasons ... ever notice the Washington Monument?  That is the sun god, Ra's penis.  George Washington is giving the ignorant US, the fickle finder of fate.

Didn't Obama go to the National Prayer Breakfast?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on May 04, 2018, 06:47:55 PM
Oh, so you're a p
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Sorry, atheism will always be a minority position, same as vegetarianism.  Nothing wrong with it, but manifest destiny it ain't.
Oh, so now you're a prophet?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 04, 2018, 06:51:27 PM
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Oh, so you're a pOh, so now you're a prophet?

Yes, it is inevitable we will evolve into big brained Grey aliens, we were visited by our time traveling descendants in the 1950s.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on May 04, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
Atheists have a divine right to disbelieve.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 04, 2018, 08:42:09 PM
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Atheists have a divine right to disbelieve.

Just don't try that outside of Buckingham Palace.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 05, 2018, 02:39:09 AM
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Atheists have a divine right to disbelieve.

Mild objection:  It plays into the hands of those who are convinced we atheists BELIEVE is some sort of deity.  Other than that, good joke.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 05, 2018, 02:43:06 AM
The problem with debating with Baruch is that you occasionally have to read his posts.  I generally try not to to save myself the rolling of the eyes.  If his posts suddenly get factual and serious, let me know.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 05, 2018, 09:20:52 AM
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The problem with debating with Baruch is that you occasionally have to read his posts.  I generally try not to to save myself the rolling of the eyes.  If his posts suddenly get factual and serious, let me know.

When everyone starts agreeing with me, I will stop ignoring them ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on May 17, 2018, 03:20:23 PM
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/05/trumps-white-house-faith-office-is-a-white-evangel.html

Theocracy here we come
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 01:37:32 AM
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https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/05/trumps-white-house-faith-office-is-a-white-evangel.html

Theocracy here we come

The evangelists have turned a blind eye to the moral failings of Trump and sycophants in exchange for legislation and executive orders they have long desired. 

That doesn't say a lot of good things about THEM, does it?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on May 19, 2018, 08:14:04 AM
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The evangelists have turned a blind eye to the moral failings of Trump and sycophants in exchange for legislation and executive orders they have long desired. 

That doesn't say a lot of good things about THEM, does it?
These are the same people who doubled down on Roy Moore after it came out he was a kiddie fiddler.  Because, I suppose, he was molesting underage girls FOR JAY-ZUS!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 08:37:14 AM
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These are the same people who doubled down on Roy Moore after it came out he was a kiddie fiddler.  Because, I suppose, he was molesting underage girls FOR JAY-ZUS!

Since January 2017, I have been rather "intellectually" (but not ethically) admiring the mental flexibility of the moral fanatics who have suddenly discovered that an amoral creep who brags about abusing women "because he can", has  non-disclosure agreements with enough women to keep a lawyer busy full time, encourages foreign nations to bribe him, and speaks out of both sides of his mouth is A FINE PERSON TO SUPPORT AS PRESIDENT!

Well, no real surprise.  Every politician knows that if they make loud noises in the collection plate, they will discover ALL is forgiven. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 08:45:31 AM
But "impeach Trump"?  Ain't never gonna happen. The House "probably" wouldn't and the Senate for sure would never vote the 2/3 majority required even if some lunatic taped grenades to their heads!

Instead, go vote Democratic in November this year and in 2020

The House and the Senate can't impeach Trump, but we voters can.  Some people may miss voting day.  *I* am counting down the days NOW.  I can't wait!  It can't come too soon.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 19, 2018, 11:43:56 AM
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But "impeach Trump"?  Ain't never gonna happen. The House "probably" wouldn't and the Senate for sure would never vote the 2/3 majority required even if some lunatic taped grenades to their heads!

Instead, go vote Democratic in November this year and in 2020

The House and the Senate can't impeach Trump, but we voters can.  Some people may miss voting day.  *I* am counting down the days NOW.  I can't wait!  It can't come too soon.

The only practical political advice you have given.  If you don't vote, don't complain.  Too bad identity politics gets in the way ... only a Black gay Hispanic women can hit all the buttons in a D-campaign.  Keep pissing off all the White straight Anglo men and see what it gets you.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
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The only practical political advice you have given.  If you don't vote, don't complain.  Too bad identity politics gets in the way ... only a Black gay Hispanic women can hit all the buttons in a D-campaign.  Keep pissing off all the Whit straight Anglo men and see what it gets you.

OK. I'm here.  *sigh* 

"Black gay Hispanic women"?  Is there anyone other than straight Causasian males you DON'T hate?  Of course, that assumes you like ME (a straight Caucasian male) who is also an atheist.

I must also LMAO at you connecting Black and Hispanic.  You DO know that Hispanics are from Spain and that Spain was settled by the same goth/visigoth/frankish peoples who settled in most of Europe after Rome collapsed and then became the epitome of "white", right?  And that it was the Romans who were (dare I say?) Phoenicians from (god help you) THE MIDDLE EAST!

You are, without a doubt, the most screwed-up self-proclaimed "educated" person I have ever met.  I am ashamed to share a "race" with you.  Except of course, there is no such thing in reality as "race", but deep down, you probably don't agree with that.

So rejoice, REJOICE I SAY, I have responded to one of your posts, recognizing your existence, (but only personally, in my own mind, considering that the Admins are watching over us all) thinking you a very well-self-developed complete idiot!

You are back on "ignore".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 19, 2018, 01:50:48 PM
I don't hate anyone.  And I think that D-creatures lie when they say how much they love minorities.  They want their money and their vote, but nothing else.  That is why African-Americans didn't come out for Hillary like they came out for Barak.

Yes, virtue signaling is a kind of obsession with New Englanders.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 02:22:09 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess.  I'll have to work to get out of this thread.

You say you don't hate anyone, but you sure don't like anyone NOT LIKE YOU.  I do like other people.  My deepest known ancestors came here early (from a European, not native American POV).  Us in the 1600s, Canada in the 1600s.  Since that time we marrid into about every immigrant group that has arrived or fallen onto our shores. 

I am English, Scots, Irish, French, Norman, Scandanavian, , Russin, Slovakian, and probaly some where else everywhere.  I have nieces who are part Korean.  A DNA test says I am partly east asian and partly Middle Eastern,  I'm from everywhere.n  And if you met me, you would say I was English.

What I am is American.  And if you disagree, I will take a shillelagh and lööma your dry sonn!  OK?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 20, 2018, 12:58:22 AM
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In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess.  I'll have to work to get out of this thread.

You say you don't hate anyone, but you sure don't like anyone NOT LIKE YOU.  I do like other people.  My deepest known ancestors came here early (from a European, not native American POV).  Us in the 1600s, Canada in the 1600s.  Since that time we marrid into about every immigrant group that has arrived or fallen onto our shores. 

I am English, Scots, Irish, French, Norman, Scandanavian, , Russin, Slovakian, and probaly some where else everywhere.  I have nieces who are part Korean.  A DNA test says I am partly east asian and partly Middle Eastern,  I'm from everywhere.n  And if you met me, you would say I was English.

What I am is American.  And if you disagree, I will take a shillelagh and lööma your dry sonn!  OK?

People not like me?  Politically obsessed people aren't like me - but i enjoy gigging them.  I only mention politics here because it is far more important to posters than say .. philosophy.  I also keep one eye pealed for the Left and one for the Right, just in case.

I include many people as American ... but people still fighting the Civil War, from the North side, are Yanks in the Attic vs Confederates in the Attic (name of a book).  One can have many a theory about what is going on, but we really don't know.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on May 20, 2018, 06:21:38 PM
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One can have many a theory about what is going on, but we really don't know.

But you know that Hillary is running the Illuminati, right? And she was responsible for the last recession, and the cost of tea in China.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 20, 2018, 08:48:02 PM
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But you know that Hillary is running the Illuminati, right? And she was responsible for the last recession, and the cost of tea in China.

She is a minor character actor, compared to QEII and the Pope.  And the D-party is a children's party compared to royalty and the Vatican.  Don't mistake the hired help, for the owners.

Pamela Churchill was a latter day Mata Hari ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9W_Ar0YY5Y

Her last husband, Averell Harriman, the boss of the D-party at one point, and one of the founders of the CIA, she cultivated the Clintons when nobody knew who they were.  MI6 runs everything.  Including the 2016 US Presidential election ... Americans only think they aren't a part of the Commonwealth.  It is convenient for the Queen to let them think so.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 22, 2018, 04:16:48 AM
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But you know that Hillary is running the Illuminati, right? And she was responsible for the last recession, and the cost of tea in China.

I will take that as sarcasm or satire, or even a straight-forward joke.  But not seriously.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on May 22, 2018, 01:29:42 PM
You should never take seriously anything I say. ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 22, 2018, 08:26:40 PM
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You should never take seriously anything I say. ;-)

Quite the opposite, you are one of the few truly intelligent people here.  Not knocking the others.  Someone has to do janitorial duty ;-) ... "Flowers For Algernon"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on May 23, 2018, 09:23:33 AM
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... "Flowers For Algernon"
Funny you should mention that.  Told someone the other day that that story is the blueprint for what it feels like to grow old.  The memory of hitting that home run, making that great football catch, all the tennis aces, pouring coffee without spilling any....................and on and on.  I can remember those things--won't happen again.  Could be depressing, if I let it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 23, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
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Funny you should mention that.  Told someone the other day that that story is the blueprint for what it feels like to grow old.  The memory of hitting that home run, making that great football catch, all the tennis aces, pouring coffee without spilling any....................and on and on.  I can remember those things--won't happen again.  Could be depressing, if I let it.

It is very much like descriptions of Alzheimers in particular.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 12:28:38 AM
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You should never take seriously anything I say. ;-)

Should I treat all your future statements that way? 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 12:37:07 AM
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Funny you should mention that.  Told someone the other day that that story is the blueprint for what it feels like to grow old.  The memory of hitting that home run, making that great football catch, all the tennis aces, pouring coffee without spilling any....................and on and on.  I can remember those things--won't happen again.  Could be depressing, if I let it.

I read 'Flowers For Algernon' when it was first published was published in 1966 and was joint winner of that year's Nebula Award for Best Novel (the original publication was before my reading time).  I cried at the end.  I did not, however think of it in terms of aging.  I was too young.  I can understand it in that way now though. 

I turned 68 this week.  That's not "old" in today's terms in an industrial society, but I understand I am getting there.  78 will be harder, 88 might be the end.  I don't want to be like Charlie...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 07:34:00 AM
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I read 'Flowers For Algernon' when it was first published was published in 1966 and was joint winner of that year's Nebula Award for Best Novel (the original publication was before my reading time).  I cried at the end.  I did not, however think of it in terms of aging.  I was too young.  I can understand it in that way now though. 

I turned 68 this week.  That's not "old" in today's terms in an industrial society, but I understand I am getting there.  78 will be harder, 88 might be the end.  I don't want to be like Charlie...

Kudos.  I think I read it, as a school reading assignment, before 1974.  Same reaction then as you, same realization of mortality now as you.  Last 5 years got to watch my mother slowly die.  No fun at all for either of us.  If you haven't dealt closely with a dying relative, don't if it can be avoided.  That way what is coming upon you, will be a surprise!  And the cats are not much help either.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on May 25, 2018, 09:24:54 AM
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I read 'Flowers For Algernon' when it was first published was published in 1966 and was joint winner of that year's Nebula Award for Best Novel (the original publication was before my reading time).  I cried at the end.  I did not, however think of it in terms of aging.  I was too young.  I can understand it in that way now though. 

I turned 68 this week.  That's not "old" in today's terms in an industrial society, but I understand I am getting there.  78 will be harder, 88 might be the end.  I don't want to be like Charlie...
You do have a choice.  Become like Charlie------or die.  Take your pick........................
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 09:26:33 AM
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You do have a choice.  Become like Charlie------or die.  Take your pick........................

Since he isn't a snowflake, he doesn't get to claim a third choice.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 10:48:06 AM
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You do have a choice.  Become like Charlie------or die.  Take your pick........................

Was that the choice?  I think the idea was that we (collectively) are both "Charlies".  Some struggling through life, and some easing along understanding almost everything.  The point of the story, (beyond the obvious exaggerations) was that there was a Charlie who drops dishes and barely understands written words, and a Charlie who can think brilliantly.  And the 3rd party was the teacher who saw both sides of all of us.

And let me say that I don't ignore the surface level of the story from the teacher's POV.  It is all tragic on the surface.  I feel for her at the start, the middle, and the end.  When Charlie returns to the class at the end, I cry for her too.  She "knew him when" at both extremes, and saw what he "could have been".

And don't forget to cry for Algernon...  He briefly sensed that he knew something more than other mice, and lost that, as Charlie did.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 11:31:19 AM
Very nice analysis.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 11:37:35 AM
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Very nice analysis.

Oh crap, now I guess I have to take you off "ignore"...  For a while...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 11:42:32 AM
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Oh crap, now I guess I have to take you off "ignore"...  For a while...

If you are a literature critic, do you have to put a dragon fang thru it, because it is a horucrux?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
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If you are a literature critic, do you have to put a dragon fang thru it, because it is a horucrux?

Of course. As we drink the Amontillado.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on May 25, 2018, 12:56:22 PM
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I read 'Flowers For Algernon' when it was first published was published in 1966 and was joint winner of that year's Nebula Award for Best Novel (the original publication was before my reading time).  I cried at the end.  I did not, however think of it in terms of aging.  I was too young.  I can understand it in that way now though.
You and me both.  Although I read it as a SF-horror story.  Back in the mid-70s when I first read it, I was coming at it as someone who had always not only relied upon, but prized his own intellect.  It was with a mounting sense of genuine terror that I continued to read back down through the descent, hoping for something to stop the fall, knowing that it wasn't going to happen because it wasn't that kind of book.

I have a copy, but I approach it only gingerly and occasionally, and it's probably why I overreact internally when I do something innocent but dumb like forget my phone or my rain jacket or, as I've done a couple times now, that I've put water on to boil and come into the kitchen only to see about half an inch of rapidly evaporating water... time for a proper tea kettle with a whistle, I guess.  Walking into the living room and wondering what the hell I was doing in there really frightens me when it happens.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 01:09:42 PM
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You and me both.  Although I read it as a SF-horror story.  Back in the mid-70s when I first read it, I was coming at it as someone who had always not only relied upon, but prized his own intellect.  It was with a mounting sense of genuine terror that I continued to read back down through the descent, hoping for something to stop the fall, knowing that it wasn't going to happen because it wasn't that kind of book.

I have a copy, but I approach it only gingerly and occasionally, and it's probably why I overreact internally when I do something innocent but dumb like forget my phone or my rain jacket or, as I've done a couple times now, that I've put water on to boil and come into the kitchen only to see about half an inch of rapidly evaporating water... time for a proper tea kettle with a whistle, I guess.  Walking into the living room and wondering what the hell I was doing in there really frightens me when it happens.

That, my friend, is amazing!  I never thought of it that way.  While it is difficult to recall precisely where some story line turned, I remember having chills up my spine when Charlie understood he was beyond the comprehension of Ms. Kinnian.  But I still considered it a sci-fi plot though a tragedy.

Thinking of it now with your suggestions, I can see it as a sort of modern gothic tragedy.  Scary brilliant person, caring average person, ascent and fall...

As a teen though, I think it made me think of learning and the fear of failing, but also such profound sadness for both Charlie and Algernon.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on May 25, 2018, 01:22:51 PM
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That, my friend, is amazing!  I never thought of it that way.  While it is difficult to recall precisely where some story line turned, I remember having chills up my spine when Charlie understood he was beyond the comprehension of Ms. Kinnian.  But I still considered it a sci-fi plot though a tragedy.
Oh, I know exactly the line that did me in: "Algernon bit me."  Just those three little words, that foreshadowed everything that was going to happen.  I got a certain tightness in the chest and tremor up the spine just typing it out.  And what made it worse was that you knew Charlie knew what it meant.  It's like being told you have Alzheimer's while you still have enough of yourself left to fully grasp what that means.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 01:46:30 PM
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Oh, I know exactly the line that did me in: "Algernon bit me."  Just those three little words, that foreshadowed everything that was going to happen.  I got a certain tightness in the chest and tremor up the spine just typing it out.  And what made it worse was that you knew Charlie knew what it meant.  It's like being told you have Alzheimer's while you still have enough of yourself left to fully grasp what that means.

Yeah.  I had a different line.  Something about Ms. Killian talking to Charlie about a book and she could understand the connectiond he was making.

Like in Ender's Game when you first realized the "game" was real.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on May 25, 2018, 03:06:33 PM
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Yeah.  I had a different line.  Something about Ms. Killian talking to Charlie about a book and she could understand the connectiond he was making.

Like in Ender's Game when you first realized the "game" was real.
As I travel down this road, I grow to appreciate something my mom would say, time to time.  'Growing old is not for the weak!' 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 29, 2018, 05:28:21 AM
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As I travel down this road, I grow to appreciate something my mom would say, time to time.  'Growing old is not for the weak!'

MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on May 29, 2018, 06:46:14 AM
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MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't.

My Mom did the same, including golf.  And smoking like a chimney.  She last golfed when she was 86.  She smoked for 75 years.  They don't make moms like that anymore ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 29, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
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My Mom did the same, including golf.  And smoking like a chimney.  She last golfed when she was 86.  She smoked for 75 years.  They don't make moms like that anymore ;-)

Congrats to both our Moms.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on May 29, 2018, 12:17:56 PM
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MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't.
Seems like our mothers had much in common.  If that is accurate, then we were lucky sons.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on May 29, 2018, 12:50:25 PM
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Seems like our mothers had much in common.  If that is accurate, then we were lucky sons.

Yeah, "good Mom genes".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 04, 2018, 03:29:42 PM
Yup, he's at it again: now he claims an "absolute right" to pardon himself (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44359434).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHN3IJ_j8A

...but even Nixon never claimed he could pardon himself.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 04, 2018, 03:52:48 PM
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Yup, he's at it again: now he claims an "absolute right" to pardon himself (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44359434).

All those new "privacy policies" you've agreed to lately... Trump snuck this into the fine print. :-)

(http://i1.wp.com/www.frominsultstorespect.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/peanuts-and-blame.jpg?resize=600%2C808)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 04, 2018, 05:00:57 PM
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Yup, he's at it again: now he claims an "absolute right" to pardon himself (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44359434).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHN3IJ_j8A

...but even Nixon never claimed he could pardon himself.
Yeah, he thinks he can pardon himself, but I bet he never does whenever he farts.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 04, 2018, 06:32:15 PM
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Yup, he's at it again: now he claims an "absolute right" to pardon himself (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44359434).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHN3IJ_j8A

...but even Nixon never claimed he could pardon himself.

Yes, there is Presidential privilege (as executive branch and as CinC).  The US president isn't a ceremonial diplomat as that position is in some countries.  There are three contending branches of government, neither is completely subordinate to the other.

Nixon should have done a coup, and attacked Congress directly, like Yeltsin did ;-)  I no longer believe anyone does anything wrong, who opposes Democrats. ;-))
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 05, 2018, 03:51:53 AM
Trump may deserve impeachment, but it won't happen.  First "impeachment" is merely a "bringing of charges" in the House.  That only means a trial in the Senate.  The Senate is not going to convict Trump of anything.  The Chief Justice would be the Judge (with some House Members as Prosecutors) and require 67 Senators to vote to convict. 

As a practical matter, that isn't going to happen, so forget about it.  I mean, really seriously, forget about it...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 05, 2018, 07:12:54 AM
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Trump may deserve impeachment, but it won't happen.  First "impeachment" is merely a "bringing of charges" in the House.  That only means a trial in the Senate.  The Senate is not going to convict Trump of anything.  The Chief Justice would be the Judge (with some House Members as Prosecutors) and require 67 Senators to vote to convict. 

As a practical matter, that isn't going to happen, so forget about it.  I mean, really seriously, forget about it...

Yes, but in 2019 after the 2018 November miracle, the Communist Millennials get out the vote and turn every elected office up for grabs, into a W European communist party membership.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 05, 2018, 07:48:42 PM
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Trump may deserve impeachment, but it won't happen.  First "impeachment" is merely a "bringing of charges" in the House.  That only means a trial in the Senate.  The Senate is not going to convict Trump of anything.  The Chief Justice would be the Judge (with some House Members as Prosecutors) and require 67 Senators to vote to convict. 

As a practical matter, that isn't going to happen, so forget about it.  I mean, really seriously, forget about it...
Practically speaking, no, it's not going to happen.  Although if the Democrats take control of the House this fall and bring charges, even if they don't go to the Senate, the Repub leadership may try to push him out, same as they did Nixon -- mostly out of fear for what might happen to them in 2020.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 05, 2018, 08:19:24 PM
I wonder, if Chump is impeached, how many of his supporters would take up arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them?

Or at least try to end them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 06, 2018, 03:05:25 AM
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Practically speaking, no, it's not going to happen.  Although if the Democrats take control of the House this fall and bring charges, even if they don't go to the Senate, the Repub leadership may try to push him out, same as they did Nixon -- mostly out of fear for what might happen to them in 2020.

Nixon was undone by a coup from the FBI.  Sound familiar?  The R-party did nothing, the Deep State did everything.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 06, 2018, 03:06:34 AM
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I wonder, if Chump is impeached, how many of his supporters would take up arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them?

Or at least try to end them.

Don't ask for civil war ... that way lies madness.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 08, 2018, 01:05:22 AM
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I wonder, if Chump is impeached, how many of his supporters would take up arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them?

Or at least try to end them.
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
the heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
that Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub,
for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
when we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
must give us pause.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 08, 2018, 01:12:34 AM
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No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
the heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
that Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub,
for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
when we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
must give us pause.

Hamlet was a massive failure ... and psychotic.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 08, 2018, 01:45:28 PM
But he was a lot of fun at parties...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 08, 2018, 07:36:46 PM
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But he was a lot of fun at parties...

Not if poisoned swords and chalices were involved ;-(
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 09, 2018, 02:19:34 PM
I keep hoping this Trump will be the last Trump, and if that's the case, the rapture will happen during his tenure:



Quote
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last Trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Corinthians 15:52

After the rapture the rest of us can get on with having a great future.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 09, 2018, 02:22:40 PM
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I keep hoping this Trump will be the last Trump, and if that's the case, the rapture will happen during his tenure:


1Corinthians 15:52

After the rapture the rest of us can get on with having a great future.

Not when you are actually reincarnated as cock-roaches per Hinduism.  Gandhi said not to worry about the HaShoah ... righteous people who are murdered can hope to reincarnate as Hindus.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on June 09, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
Flowers for Algernon to add a different twist to your outlook, I will say that I read it too. I found it on the bookshelf at home. My mom said it was a required book for a psychology class she had in school. So I had the question of why this book was in a psychology class in the back of my head from the first page.

be nice if we could give some kind of intel enhancing drug to Trump for the next 3 years. the big dose; not the little one


Trump can and should be impeached for incompetence... maybe they keep him around because they realized he's so dumb they can get him to do anything they want him to do. Well we can hope its not because they are so dumb or loaded up on drugs that they think he is a smart guy
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 09, 2018, 10:58:01 PM
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Trump can and should be impeached for incompetence... maybe they keep him around because they realized he's so dumb they can get him to do anything they want him to do. Well we can hope its not because they are so dumb or loaded up on drugs that they think he is a smart guy
I know this was partly in jest, but I actually think this is why they keep him around.  They can get him to push through a whole lot of things potentially harmful to the middle class, and if something really backfires to come back at the party, they can blame it on Trump, with the old "buck stopped there" defense.  If something actually works out well, they will all be there to take credit.  In addition, I don't see Trump being the party's undoing.  Republicans have shown amazing resiliency.  Of course they only compete with one other party.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2018, 01:06:00 AM
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I know this was partly in jest, but I actually think this is why they keep him around.  They can get him to push through a whole lot of things potentially harmful to the middle class, and if something really backfires to come back at the party, they can blame it on Trump, with the old "buck stopped there" defense.  If something actually works out well, they will all be there to take credit.  In addition, I don't see Trump being the party's undoing.  Republicans have shown amazing resiliency.  Of course they only compete with one other party.

No real competition ... Bernie bros only kept around for laughs.  There is only the Goldman-Sachs party.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 10, 2018, 01:14:50 PM
The real problem is that Trump is dumb, for he is not that.  He is cunning.  He appears dumb on the surface because he does not have the agenda of a typical politician; his major goal is to put money into his pocket and the pockets of those (mainly family) close to him.  Everything is run thu that filter--how will this financially help me.  Hell, even his golf puts money in his pocket since he uses his own courses.  The closest parallel I can think of is a mafia boss.  He is running this country as his 'family'.  He is replacing the bureaucratic structure with is own people and at all levels.  With 2 more years to go,  it will impossible to undo all of those appointments.  He is replacing patriotism with nationalism for a reason.  He loves autocratic dictators and hopes to be one one day.  He is actually so good at what he is doing that his presidency is much worse than I had imagined it would be.  I have a bad feeling about 2020 (he could easily win that) and then what the hell will 2024 look like???
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2018, 01:28:35 PM
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The real problem is that Trump is dumb, for he is not that.  He is cunning.  He appears dumb on the surface because he does not have the agenda of a typical politician; his major goal is to put money into his pocket and the pockets of those (mainly family) close to him.  Everything is run thu that filter--how will this financially help me.  Hell, even his golf puts money in his pocket since he uses his own courses.  The closest parallel I can think of is a mafia boss.  He is running this country as his 'family'.  He is replacing the bureaucratic structure with is own people and at all levels.  With 2 more years to go,  it will impossible to undo all of those appointments.  He is replacing patriotism with nationalism for a reason.  He loves autocratic dictators and hopes to be one one day.  He is actually so good at what he is doing that his presidency is much worse than I had imagined it would be.  I have a bad feeling about 2020 (he could easily win that) and then what the hell will 2024 look like???

Nobody can predict the future.  Not even the ADA election analysis software used by the Hillary campaign.

So yes, by all means, count your chickens before they hatch ... not at all clear about the 2018 electoral cycle, and any Dems elected will be more conservative than those currently in office.  It has never been the plan (of Goldman-Sachs) to have the Dems nominate only Black Muslim gay trans-women for office ... no matter what propagandists claim.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 10, 2018, 05:44:40 PM
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The real problem is that Trump is dumb, for he is not that.  He is cunning.  He appears dumb on the surface because he does not have the agenda of a typical politician; his major goal is to put money into his pocket and the pockets of those (mainly family) close to him.  Everything is run thu that filter--how will this financially help me.  Hell, even his golf puts money in his pocket since he uses his own courses.  The closest parallel I can think of is a mafia boss.  He is running this country as his 'family'.  He is replacing the bureaucratic structure with is own people and at all levels.  With 2 more years to go,  it will impossible to undo all of those appointments.  He is replacing patriotism with nationalism for a reason.  He loves autocratic dictators and hopes to be one one day.  He is actually so good at what he is doing that his presidency is much worse than I had imagined it would be.  I have a bad feeling about 2020 (he could easily win that) and then what the hell will 2024 look like???
I'm hoping that by 2020 "The commander of Cheese" will have screwed things up so badly that the powers that be will have to put a Democrat in the office to clean things up before the next Republican gets in to fuck things up again. It's a game being played with us all, by someone who really doesn't know the rules.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 10, 2018, 09:02:09 PM
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I'm hoping that by 2020 "The commander of Cheese" will have screwed things up so badly that the powers that be will have to put a Democrat in the office to clean things up before the next Republican gets in to fuck things up again. It's a game being played with us all, by someone who really doesn't know the rules.
This is how I see it.  He hasn't fucked things up--not in his eyes nor the eyes of his followers.  And he IS playing the game by the rules; his rules.  And he is wildly successful so far.  His bank account is probably much bigger than it was a year ago, but not as big as it will become.  We are really talking at cross purposes when we talk about Trump.  Most news media outlets talk of the 'accepted' rules, guidelines, morals and ethics of the past.  Trump cares nothing about those.  He does not follow them, and has never pretended to.  He isn't now.  Why should he?  He has gotten away with all that he has wanted to and will continue to do so until people start talking to him (and the rest of us) in terms he understands. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 11, 2018, 02:28:18 AM
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I keep hoping this Trump will be the last Trump, and if that's the case, the rapture will happen during his tenure:


1Corinthians 15:52

After the rapture the rest of us can get on with having a great future.

Well, when Trump goes, I won't exactly consider it The Rapture, but I might feel a minor secular rapture of general happiness and relief.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2018, 06:11:22 AM
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Well, when Trump goes, I won't exactly consider it The Rapture, but I might feel a minor secular rapture of general happiness and relief.

How I felt when George W left the WH.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 11, 2018, 01:39:30 PM
Yeah, how wrong I was to think we could never have a president worse than Dubya!

It seems like we have a Russian mole in the WH this time, surely the highest-placed mole in the history of this country.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 11, 2018, 01:55:18 PM
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Yeah, how wrong I was to think we could never have a president worse than Dubya!

It seems like we have a Russian mole in the WH this time, surely the highest-placed mole in the history of this country.

When Reagan was elected I thought. "He's an idiot".  When Dubya was elected, I thought "OK THIS dimwit is a real idiot,  Give me Reagan".  When Trump was elected, I wanted Dubya back...

And I'm pretty sure now that I REALLY don't want to know who the next Republican President is whenever it happens. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2018, 06:04:14 PM
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Yeah, how wrong I was to think we could never have a president worse than Dubya!

It seems like we have a Russian mole in the WH this time, surely the highest-placed mole in the history of this country.

You are underestimating Boris Obama and Natasha Clinton.  The question is who do they work for, who is Fearless Leader?  Soros perhaps?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 11, 2018, 06:07:48 PM
Yeah, right - got citations?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2018, 06:10:35 PM
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Yeah, right - got citations?

Uranium One.  Anyone, even Palin who can see Russia from her porch ... are Fifth columnists.  I am happy for Russia however, at least they have a country.  All the US has is the final collapse of democratic corruption (notice small d).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 11, 2018, 06:55:37 PM
What is it about Uranium One (https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/) that you think has anything to do with anything?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2018, 11:08:53 PM
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What is about Uranium One (https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/) that you think has anything to do with anything?

Political scandal doesn't require violation of the law.  Per Nixon, it is impossible for the President to violate the law.  Obama knew this too.  So the question is political embarrassment and consequences.  Are there consequences to what politicians do or not?  I wish Obama wasn't involved, but afraid that he is one of all Presidents since Nixon, who are as ruthless as Nixon, as corrupt as Nixon.  It is easier to think Obama was duped by the Clinton crime family.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on June 20, 2018, 08:23:04 AM
Space Force is the newest Drumpf retardation.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 20, 2018, 09:36:39 AM
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Space Force is the newest Drumpf retardation.

The Trump brain imagines and the Trump brain declares the world "SO". 

Seriously, he has no sense of rational thought, and little sense of law.  In fact, his entire family seems to consider "law" an inconvenience.  I might exempt Melanija Knavs Trump as just married to him...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 20, 2018, 12:32:13 PM
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Space Force is the newest Drumpf retardation.

Yes, the Federal government needs to create a sixth branch of the military because, as Trump said, "When it comes to defending America, it is not enough to merely have an American presence in space. We must have American dominance in space." I mean how expensive could American dominance in space possibly be? This will make Trump's wall look incidental.

(https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense-comparison-full.gif)

Remember the days when Republicans at least pretended to want to shrink the Federal government? Of course, this entire announcement is another one of his distractions.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 20, 2018, 12:45:30 PM
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Space Force is the newest Drumpf retardation.

Like the Wall, will never happen.  This is just triggering fun toward the Left.  Like shaking the ant farm up.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 20, 2018, 12:48:44 PM
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Yes, the Federal government needs to create a sixth branch of the military because, as Trump said, "When it comes to defending America, it is not enough to merely have an American presence in space. We must have American dominance in space." I mean how expensive could American dominance in space possibly be? This will make Trump's wall look incidental.

(https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense-comparison-full.gif)

Remember the days when Republicans at least pretended to want to shrink the Federal government? Of course, this entire announcement is another one of his distractions.

The only reason to go into space was for the military, see Sputnik and Vanguard (failed) and Explorer (success).  This isn't new.  Most US rocket technology was developed from the V2 German missile.  So this is a nothing-burger for me.  I was involved in the militarizing of space back when I was an engineer during the Cold War.  What is interesting about the proposal, is that the USAF is no longer considered competent enough to take care of space ... as they have since the 1960s.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 20, 2018, 01:06:34 PM
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This is just triggering fun toward the Left.

And Libertarians I would assume.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 20, 2018, 01:12:50 PM
Now we will be able to really take the fight to Ming the Merciless! He's doomed I say, DOOMED!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 20, 2018, 01:59:47 PM
I've heard of religious pareidolia. Now we have political pareidolia:

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/hot-topics/trump-cloud-man-captures-photos-of-cloud-resembling-president-donald-trump
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on June 20, 2018, 02:29:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEhNHNydIs
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 20, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Why do people keep insulting orange orangutans by saying they look like Trump!?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 20, 2018, 03:32:34 PM
600 United Methodists file complaint against Sessions for child abuse, discrimination (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/19/united-methodists-church-complaint-jeff-sessions-border-policy/713986002/)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 20, 2018, 03:41:03 PM
Bah, is that all they see in the sky is an orange disaster area?  I've seen KitchenAid countertop mixers (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/7689532830/), numbers (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/8360900928/), sharks (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/10551470476/), the Flying Spaghetti Monster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/717412428/), McDonald's Gobblins (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/4776632080/), a teed-up golf ball (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/28106521971/), mushrooms (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/28403513070/), and a pond doing a pretty darn good impersonation of a very large Guinness (https://www.flickr.com/photos/trdsf/34940915636/).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on June 20, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Now Drumpf has decided to not separate families at borders and blames the democrats for not passing better laws.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 20, 2018, 06:43:55 PM
Well, he has to blame someone other than himself, and democrats are convenient.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 20, 2018, 06:52:11 PM
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Well, he has to blame someone other than himself, and democrats are convenient.
I think it must have been a couple of weeks now since I heard NPR play a sound bite of Trump blaming the Democrats for the current treatment of immigrant children.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 03:51:55 AM
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Now Drumpf has decided to not separate families at borders and blames the democrats for not passing better laws.

The First Lady didn't like it, and that persuaded the President.  But the law says, you can't keep unaccompanied minors in jail with adults ... for the children.  Most of the children are unaccompanied.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 21, 2018, 04:22:43 AM
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The First Lady didn't like it, and that persuaded the President.  But the law says, you can't keep unaccompanied minors in jail with adults ... for the children.  Most of the children are unaccompanied.
Why is it suddenly so important for Trump to follow the law in this case?  Why not in other cases?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 06:48:16 AM
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Why is it suddenly so important for Trump to follow the law in this case?  Why not in other cases?

So, you are saying, Trump (or Obama) should routinely ignore the law?  Which law did Obama ignore, or Trump ignore?  In the scandal of Russiagate ... it seems that nobody under Obama, or Obama for that matter, obeyed the law.

Trump was following the same law as Obama, until just yesterday, then wrote an executive order.  Since when is an executive order a law?  Congress didn't write any bill to change anything in regard to immigration enforcement.  Signing statements have also gotten out of control.

I have a big problem with all of these executive orders.  Let Congress pass a law, and the President sign it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 21, 2018, 07:01:13 AM
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So, you are saying, Trump (or Obama) should routinely ignore the law?
No, I didn't say anything.  It was a question.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 07:20:10 AM
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No, I didn't say anything.  It was a question.

Why is it suddenly so important for Trump to follow the law in this case? - The President is the law, whether Obama or Trump.

Why not in other cases? - Why ask why any politician chooses one thing over another?  Probably roll of the dice.

Now I ask you, which laws are you talking about?  It is still illegal, to immigrate without authorization, into any country.  Europe has decided to be generous in granting authorization, but that is ending now.  The US grants unofficial authorization, by lack of enforcement.  I see a problem with either strategy ... being too generous, legally, or in giving a nod and a wink to millions of illegals living in the US, because people like the cheap labor.

But as long as politicians and their supporters believe "the end justifies the means" ... then we are not a civil society, we are a crime wave.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on June 21, 2018, 08:02:58 AM
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Well, he has to blame someone other than himself, and democrats are convenient.
Democrats: "We didn't think we had to tell the president not to be a soulless bastard. Our bad."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 21, 2018, 11:58:09 AM
Oh, it gets worse.  It's now alleged that they're drugging kids—sometimes with powerful psychotropics—to keep them "calm" (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-medication/u-s-centers-force-migrant-children-to-take-drugs-lawsuit-idUSKBN1JH076).

If true, this is a Hague-worthy crime against humanity, not a merely impeachable high crime or misdemeanor.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 12:29:52 PM
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Democrats: "We didn't think we had to tell the president not to be a soulless bastard. Our bad."

Like Bill and Hillary?  Don't throw stones ... in politics, all houses are made of glass.  You can take those 12,000 children into your home, if you want them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 12:30:51 PM
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Oh, it gets worse.  It's now alleged that they're drugging kids—sometimes with powerful psychotropics—to keep them "calm" (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-medication/u-s-centers-force-migrant-children-to-take-drugs-lawsuit-idUSKBN1JH076).

If true, this is a Hague-worthy crime against humanity, not a merely impeachable high crime or misdemeanor.

This happens to many kids in school today.  Maybe you need to stop over-prescription of AD and ADHD drugs in the schools too?  Nobody here complained when Obama was doing this.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on June 21, 2018, 02:39:02 PM
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This happens to many kids in school today.  Maybe you need to stop over-prescription of AD and ADHD drugs in the schools too?  Nobody here complained when Obama was doing this.

That's because Obama didn't make racist statements against latinos and take children away from parents to be treated like animals. Obama didn't also fit it into his propaganda like Drumpf. Also this cam from Clinton whom didn't use such aggressive acts of bondage of illegals but every goddamn Trump supporter will derp derp derp
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 21, 2018, 02:51:20 PM
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That's because Obama didn't make racist statements against latinos and take children away from parents to be treated like animals. Obama didn't also fit it into his propaganda like Drumpf. Also this cam from Clinton whom didn't use such aggressive acts of bondage of illegals but every goddamn Trump supporter will derp derp derp
You're forgetting that in Baruchistan, because one kid in a public school was identified as having a potentially medicatable condition, was evaluated for it, and was properly prescribed something to help manage it at some point during the Obama administration, therefore AIIIEEE HILLARY EVIL!!!1!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 07:29:43 PM
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That's because Obama didn't make racist statements against latinos and take children away from parents to be treated like animals. Obama didn't also fit it into his propaganda like Drumpf. Also this cam from Clinton whom didn't use such aggressive acts of bondage of illegals but every goddamn Trump supporter will derp derp derp

That is false.  Are you a Leftist propagandist?  Jacobin (online mag) is for you.  The pictures of children being treated as animals (and yes, I do feel for the children) originally came from the Obama administration.  President Obama is an anti-White racist by his own words ... but much more articulate than President Trump.  Yes, I agree that bad words don't make a bad situation better ... I don't like Trump either.  If you want to rid the world of racism, rid it of race ... aka exterminate the human race.  But for those children who are in fact orphans, please adopt some.  Otherwise you can stop the virtue signaling and false concern.  I know I am not virtuous ... at least I am self aware and honest.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 21, 2018, 07:30:49 PM
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You're forgetting that in Baruchistan, because one kid in a public school was identified as having a potentially medicatable condition, was evaluated for it, and was properly prescribed something to help manage it at some point during the Obama administration, therefore AIIIEEE HILLARY EVIL!!!1!

No ... actually I have never claimed that Hillary is responsible for the over prescription of mood altering drugs to children.  But do your own research please.  I am sure that years ago, this was all part of the Trump master race plan.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on June 21, 2018, 08:32:56 PM
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That is false.  Are you a Leftist propagandist?  Jacobin (online mag) is for you.  The pictures of children being treated as animals (and yes, I do feel for the children) originally came from the Obama administration.  President Obama is an anti-White racist by his own words ... but much more articulate than President Trump.  Yes, I agree that bad words don't make a bad situation better ... I don't like Trump either.  If you want to rid the world of racism, rid it of race ... aka exterminate the human race.  But for those children who are in fact orphans, please adopt some.  Otherwise you can stop the virtue signaling and false concern.  I know I am not virtuous ... at least I am self aware and honest.

So Drumpf isn't a bigot and made th illegal immigragration policy much wors? What are you smoking?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 12:59:05 AM
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So Drumpf isn't a bigot and made th illegal immigragration policy much wors? What are you smoking?

So?  And are you an alien with an expired visa or some other awkwardness?  I think Ms Trump is trying to make things better for the children.  Did Michelle Obama do that?  How  many orphans are you going to adopt?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 22, 2018, 01:40:06 AM
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Why do people keep insulting orange orangutans by saying they look like Trump!?

Because the orangutans have more honest orange hair?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 22, 2018, 02:09:13 AM
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That is false.  Are you a Leftist propagandist?  Jacobin (online mag) is for you.  The pictures of children being treated as animals (and yes, I do feel for the children) originally came from the Obama administration.  President Obama is an anti-White racist by his own words ... but much more articulate than President Trump.  Yes, I agree that bad words don't make a bad situation better ... I don't like Trump either.  If you want to rid the world of racism, rid it of race ... aka exterminate the human race.  But for those children who are in fact orphans, please adopt some.  Otherwise you can stop the virtue signaling and false concern.  I know I am not virtuous ... at least I am self aware and honest.

OK, there comes a time when someone bizarre nut-case like Baruch just HAS to be confronted. 

The pictures of children on the news recently being treated as animals in chain link pens was NOT from the Obama administration.  They were recent and reported on legitimate news sites.

President Obama was not an anti-White racist by his own words.  Give me quotes, supported by dates place and time to support your claim and in context with fake ellipses.

"Yes, I agree that bad words don't make a bad situation better".  Well, then try not using them.  That would be a good start!  Try using facts.  I know that might be a hard change, but DO give it a try.

"If you want to rid the world of racism, rid it of race".  Do you even understand that "race" is a false construction?  "Race" is merely a matter of appearance of adaptation to local conditions over time.  All humans are the same species. And our ancestors 100,000 years ago seem to have been as intelligent as we are today.  We just have more accumulated information.  Take a 100,000 year old human baby and raise it here today and you would know the difference.  Send a baby today back then, and it wouldn't be superior.

You want to get rid of race?  Stay in one spot.  And die.  Or interbreed so thoroughly that no genetic differences can arise.  Do you have a preference?

Actually, I have come to doubt your self awareness  and honesty.  I used to think you were rather intelligent.  I now understand that you are somewhat educated in a few limited areas, but not actually very thoughtful.  There is a difference between knowing some esoteric stuff and actually being intelligent.  You aren't.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 02:20:47 AM
Do y'all know what Trump derangement syndrome is?

The existing law, which has been in place for 22 years, was signed by President Clinton.

How many orphans are you hosting, Cavebear?  You are like Comrade Dr Zivago ... I am sure you can host a few in your mansion.

Yes, this is all about racism, how all White males need to be exterminated.  If the folks trying to immigrate were high paid technical folks, then there is no issue (H1B).  But then Indians and Chinese are OK, but Latinos are not.

Personally ... I like Latinos.  I wish they would immigrate millions to New England, and expel all the Puritans back to Europe.  Make Boston into Guadalajara Del Norte.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 22, 2018, 02:51:18 AM
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Do y'all know what Trump derangement syndrome is?

The existing law, which has been in place for 22 years, was signed by President Clinton.

How many orphans are you hosting, Cavebear?  You are like Comrade Dr Zivago ... I am sure you can host a few in your mansion.

Yes, this is all about racism, how all White males need to be exterminated.  If the folks trying to immigrate were high paid technical folks, then there is no issue (H1B).  But then Indians and Chinese are OK, but Latinos are not.

Personally ... I like Latinos.  I wish they would immigrate millions to New England, and expel all the Puritans back to Europe.  Make Boston into Guadalajara Del Norte.

So you are in favor of what Presidente Vincente Fox once said about "The Reqonquista"?

Personally, I just want people to come here from everywhere in generally equal numbers.  A general immigration of Asians, Africans, Europeans, South Americans and Australians is JUST fine with me. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 06:53:49 AM
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So you are in favor of what Presidente Vincente Fox once said about "The Reqonquista"?

Personally, I just want people to come here from everywhere in generally equal numbers.  A general immigration of Asians, Africans, Europeans, South Americans and Australians is JUST fine with me.

For New England, yes ... get rid of it, make it into New New Mexico.  Just for you and people like you ... payback for past injustices by THE most self righteous people in the US.

Otherwise we actually don't differ.  That and I don't have Trump Derangement Syndrome ... on him or Obama or ... I have gotten over all past elections already.

The D party is assisting The Reconqista all they can (with the help of R party employers).  That is bipartisan.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 22, 2018, 10:50:40 AM
I wondered when the lie about the alleged "Democrat law" would surface.

And yes, I said lie.  Asserting that Trump's policy of family separation is Clinton's or Obama's fault is a lie (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/).  Period, end of statement.  Sorry that reality disagrees with you.

Well, no, I'm not sorry about that at all.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 22, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
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I wondered when the lie about the alleged "Democrat law" would surface.

And yes, I said lie.  Asserting that Trump's policy of family separation is Clinton's or Obama's fault is a lie (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/).  Period, end of statement.  Sorry that reality disagrees with you.

Well, no, I'm not sorry about that at all.
There is no end to alternate facts, but it has reached epic proportions under Trump.  If you can't deal with reality, you can simply choose the facts that fulfill your needs, and you can even change the facts when it suits your purpose.  Recently, it seems that more and more people are willing to believe bullshit that would have been laughed at in the past.  All politicians lie. We know this.  We even accept it as part of governance, but the lies never seemed as incredible as the shit Trump invents, and his supporters swallow lies that don't even make sense.  Some will accept them even when they know it isn't so.  We are a dysfunctional society.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 12:45:45 PM
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There is no end to alternate facts, but it has reached epic proportions under Trump.  If you can't deal with reality, you can simply choose the facts that fulfill your needs, and you can even change the facts when it suits your purpose.  Recently, it seems that more and more people are willing to believe bullshit that would have been laughed at in the past.  All politicians lie. We know this.  We even accept it as part of governance, but the lies never seemed as incredible as the shit Trump invents, and his supporters swallow lies that don't even make sense.  Some will accept them even when they know it isn't so.  We are a dysfunctional society.

D lies good, R lies bad.  As an Independent, I hate both of you.  Accepting incompetent or mentally deranged candidates at election time ... good reason to end elections entirely.  The American people aren't fit to be self governing.

Nothing since Nov 1963 is true, an probably even earlier.  You can't pledge fealty to Satan and remain a free people.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 22, 2018, 12:56:51 PM
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There is no end to alternate facts, but it has reached epic proportions under Trump.  If you can't deal with reality, you can simply choose the facts that fulfill your needs, and you can even change the facts when it suits your purpose.  Recently, it seems that more and more people are willing to believe bullshit that would have been laughed at in the past.  All politicians lie. We know this.  We even accept it as part of governance, but the lies never seemed as incredible as the shit Trump invents, and his supporters swallow lies that don't even make sense.  Some will accept them even when they know it isn't so.  We are a dysfunctional society.
Pretty much.  One expects a politician to shade the truth in order to put their side in the best possible light, and hell, we all do that.

Every other politician when caught out will either claim they were misquoted, or that they misspoke, or blame a staffer, or even once in a while acknowledge that they did, in fact, lie.  All of these at least recognize that yes, there is a thing that is true and that what was said wasn't.

This current bunch doubles down on the lie even in the face of documentary evidence that they were wrong.  Not even necessarily lying, just factually wrong about something, and it started the day of the inauguration, and it was a conscious and deliberate choice to lie.

So the initial statement that the inaugural had the biggest crowd ever?  Well, okay, that could just have been an honest mistake.  Certainly I wouldn't expect the Orange Disaster Area to be spending his time up on that platform counting heads.

But as soon as the documentary evidence came out that it wasn't?  Repeating the claim was no longer an honest mistake, it was a deliberate lie.

And it's a pattern that's been repeated since day one.  Politifact identifies fully 69% of his statements as Mostly False, False, or Pants On Fire -- compared to 17% Mostly True or True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/).  If you add the Half True to the Mostly True and True, for maximum benefit of the doubt, that's 32% -- the same percentage that's just plain False.

I mean, never mind being made to miss Dubya or Nixon in comparison.  I'm starting to think rebelling against George III was a bad idea.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 22, 2018, 01:25:06 PM
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So?  And are you an alien with an expired visa or some other awkwardness?  I think Ms Trump is trying to make things better for the children.  Did Michelle Obama do that?  How  many orphans are you going to adopt?

"I don't really care
Do U?"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8Lz03fBHw
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 22, 2018, 03:40:09 PM
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"I don't really care
Do U"

If Mrs. Trump had made a conscious decision to wear that jacket and used it to address insincerity, hypertrophy of sentiment and apathy I would have a new respect for her. Unfortunately she apparently is oblivious to what she is even wearing, confirming my existing opinion that she is currently spending her life going through the motions.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on June 22, 2018, 05:00:55 PM
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If Mrs. Trump had made a conscious decision to wear that jacket and used it to address insincerity, hypertrophy of sentiment and apathy I would have a new respect for her. Unfortunately she apparently is oblivious to what she is even wearing, confirming my existing opinion that she is currently spending her life going through the motions.
I can't really fault just going through the motions.  Can you imagine being married to the Orange Disaster Area without tuning out entirely?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 22, 2018, 05:25:41 PM
Could she possibly have not known what she was wearing? Like putting a sign on someone's back that says "kick me"? Maybe a staffer thought they were being funny?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 07:03:20 PM
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If Mrs. Trump had made a conscious decision to wear that jacket and used it to address insincerity, hypertrophy of sentiment and apathy I would have a new respect for her. Unfortunately she apparently is oblivious to what she is even wearing, confirming my existing opinion that she is currently spending her life going through the motions.

Like Michelle and Hillary?  Or are only D First Ladies worthy of respect?  Rhetorical question, I already know which of you escaped from the lunatic asylum ... in Cuba.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 22, 2018, 07:21:37 PM
I don't see how Mrs. Trump did not know nor understand what she was wearing.  She is a fashion maven and is fully aware of what clothing can do and what effect clothing can have.  Plus, she wore the jacket onto the plane and immediately had social media explode about the jacket.  On the return exit, she made sure that she wore that jacket again--she did not do that by accident.  She is married to the orange buffoon, and for that I feel sorry for he.  However, she does not HAVE to be married to him; could easily divorce him.  She has enough of her money to not worry about not eating or anything else.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 22, 2018, 07:32:13 PM
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I don't see how Mrs. Trump did not know nor understand what she was wearing.  She is a fashion maven and is fully aware of what clothing can do and what effect clothing can have.  Plus, she wore the jacket onto the plane and immediately had social media explode about the jacket.  On the return exit, she made sure that she wore that jacket again--she did not do that by accident.  She is married to the orange buffoon, and for that I feel sorry for he.  However, she does not HAVE to be married to him; could easily divorce him.  She has enough of her money to not worry about not eating or anything else.

So this is where you post eh, Donatella Versace?

If y'all are putting on your metrosexualism then OK ... because we are gay tolerant here, but fashion Fascists!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 23, 2018, 01:31:02 PM
I just don't see her willingly wearing a $39 jacket. It doesn't ring true, somehow. Maybe the fake news has fooled me again.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 23, 2018, 01:48:47 PM
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I just don't see her willingly wearing a $39 jacket. It doesn't ring true, somehow. Maybe the fake news has fooled me again.
"Willingly"?  Do you think she was forced by The Donald?  At first I thought she had simply threw the thing on without thinking.  But then, she wore it on the return trip as well.  I did not think much of her even before was the first lady--I think less of her now.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 23, 2018, 01:53:05 PM
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So this is where you post eh, Donatella Versace?

If y'all are putting on your metrosexualism then OK ... because we are gay tolerant here, but fashion Fascists!
As usual lately, you make no fucking sense.   I guess ever since  you felt you were a betrayed democrat, your brains have become scrambled and all that flows from your fingers is garbled shit. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 23, 2018, 09:50:26 PM
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As usual lately, you make no fucking sense.   I guess ever since  you felt you were a betrayed democrat, your brains have become scrambled and all that flows from your fingers is garbled shit.

At least I am a former Democrat, not a current one.  Nor a former nor current Republican.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 23, 2018, 10:39:02 PM
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At least I am a former Democrat, not a current one.  Nor a former nor current Republican.
Firmly ensconced in the inane party.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 23, 2018, 11:32:07 PM
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Firmly ensconced in the inane party.

Me or you?  I am non-ideological, I am realism based, not ideologically based.  The way people behave, is the way it is.  Deal with it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 24, 2018, 05:32:51 AM
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I am realism based, not ideologically based.
?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 05:56:53 AM
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?
?? back at you.  So if one agrees with the D party one is non-ideological?  Or if one has any opinion at all, one is ideological?

Empiricism - they way things are, like it or not aka realism.  Rationalism - the way things we want it to be, in some reasonable fashion.

The second isn't going to happen, by definition, and rationalists are going to go home disappointed almost all the time.  For example ...

It took almost 5000 years to end chattel slavery ... except it actually didn't end, it changed form (teenage girl prostitution in the US, indentured servitude in SA).  I happen to agree that from a rational moral POV, chattel slavery is wrong.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 24, 2018, 07:06:28 AM
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So if one agrees with the D party one is non-ideological?
Democrats are ideological.  Liberals are ideological.
 
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Or if one has any opinion at all, one is ideological?
You are a conservative.  Your hatred for liberals removes you from the realm of realism and belies an emotionally driven philosophy devoid of reason, typical of the right wing.  You are an ideologist.  There is nothing you can do about this.  You cannot rise above the rest of humanity.  You can only pretend that you have.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 24, 2018, 09:30:19 AM
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Me or you?  I am non-ideological, I am realism based, not ideologically based.  The way people behave, is the way it is.  Deal with it.
You call your posts 'dealing with it'???  Your recent crap smacks of a baby with a broken toy--whining and crying and carrying on.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 10:04:45 AM
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Democrats are ideological.  Liberals are ideological.
 You are a conservative.  Your hatred for liberals removes you from the realm of realism and belies an emotionally driven philosophy devoid of reason, typical of the right wing.  You are an ideologist.  There is nothing you can do about this.  You cannot rise above the rest of humanity.  You can only pretend that you have.

Interesting ;-)  Conservatives and Republicans are ideological.  So are Independents ... so nobody has any objectivity (realism).

I don't hate liberals, I hate ideology ... so I hate both sides.  If I were Conservative, I would be a Republican.

So Liberals are non-emotional, are objective/realist?  I don't think you meant to claim that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 10:05:58 AM
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You call your posts 'dealing with it'???  Your recent crap smacks of a baby with a broken toy--whining and crying and carrying on.

I share videos like pr126?  I am not Rachel Maddow, not that crying is a bad thing.  So how many orphans are you adopting?

Yes, I deal with it, by not making false claims about myself, the only person I truly know.

I will let others make false or true claims about public figures.  We will never know what is fact vs fiction in regards to them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 24, 2018, 10:58:22 AM
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  So how many orphans are you adopting?

About the same as you.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 24, 2018, 12:16:52 PM
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I don't hate liberals, I hate ideology ... so I hate both sides. 
No, you hate liberals.  You hate Democrats.   One can smell the venom in your posts.  Had you ever expressed that venom at conservatives or Republicans, I might believe you hate both sides.

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If I were Conservative, I would be a Republican.
Why?  Not all conservatives are Republicans.  Many are Libertarian.

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So Liberals are non-emotional, are objective/realist?  I don't think you meant to claim that.
No, I never said that or implied it.  That's just you shouting to an empty room about a straw man you invented on your own.

Just for your information, ideologies are not by definition bad.  They can be either good or bad.  And having no ideology is of no particular importance or even noteworthy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 02:41:39 PM
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No, you hate liberals.  You hate Democrats.   One can smell the venom in your posts.  Had you ever expressed that venom at conservatives or Republicans, I might believe you hate both sides.

Why?  Not all conservatives are Republicans.  Many are Libertarian.

**No, I never said that or implied it.  That's just you shouting to an empty room about a straw man you invented on your own.

Just for your information, ideologies are not by definition bad.  They can be either good or bad.  And having no ideology is of no particular importance or even noteworthy.

Good clarification.  Particularly **.  I thought that is what you meant, but I didn't know for sure.

I have said plenty of times, rhetorically ... put the Ds in the Blue FEMA camp and Rs in the Red FEMA camp.  There is plenty of hatred for Republicans here, you want me to join y'all's 15 minute collective hate (see 1984)? ... but I disagree with the hatred part in general (read into MikeCLs tone sometimes).

So you think, realistically, I would execute Ds and give the Rs a pass?  I would execute their memes, both sides.  Human ideas are mostly horrid.  If I hated people X, I would certainly be in favor of killing them (see Nazis and Commies).  That is because they cause genocide.  It is self defense to kill them (but only if push comes to shove, not because they have thought crimes).  But short of that, just kill their evil ideas.

To be clear ... I hate every R there has ever been, Lincoln included ... no ... just the policies.  Lincoln was faced with an insurmountable difficulty, and did the best he could.  But he greatly strengthened the central government and the eventual reintroduction of the central bank, and British influence.  Those were side effects, I doubt he intended them.  Rs then and now are nothing like him.

To be clear ... I hate every D there has ever been, LBJ included ... no ... just the policies.  LBJ killed a million Vietnamese to help the MIC and his own investments.  He implemented an anti-family welfare system that has destroyed millions of families.  Jefferson Davis did less damage than LBJ.  Just to mention another great Democrat.  Both Jefferson Davis and LBJ wanted the President dead, and both got what they wanted.

Most people here have no notion of good or bad, other than their gut feelings.  That is part of being Liberal these days.  I think most Americans consider Libertarians to be bat-shit crazy Conservatives, worse than Republicans.  Hardly an endorsement.  Gilgamesh is perhaps a Libertarian.  I am not.  I am in favor of authoritarian government, but only the Centrist/Independent kind.

There aren't many politicians I have any respect for ... but Ellison and Gabbard are interesting people.  Aside from being politicians of course.  Both of those claim to be D.  The Clintons claim to be D, but they never were.  Never accept anyone's self-labeling.  Same thing with Sanders, he isn't a D either, and Trump isn't an R.  Y'all being played for chumps.  I suspect both Sanders and Trump are Independents.  Trump being Libertarian, and Sanders being Collectivist.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 02:44:50 PM
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About the same as you.

Yes, but are you virtuous?  You can show an angry chip on your shoulder at times.

So far, I don't see you as being a whiney hypocrite unlike some people (not posting here).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on June 24, 2018, 03:52:53 PM
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I have said plenty of times, rhetorically ... put the Ds in the Blue FEMA camp and Rs in the Red FEMA camp. 
Yes, you have, but I don't believe it.  You hate liberals but defend conservatives.  If you thought they were both worthy of your disrespect, you wouldn't change the subject, reframe the debate, or deflect criticism of conservatives.  You simply don't allow for any blame of conservatives, even when they truly warrant criticism.  Your, "Yeah, but Hillary," defense exemplifies this.  You buy into all the conservative's liberal stereotyping and parrot their anti-liberal talking points.  Even worse, liberals aren't just social justice warriors, they become communists, or French revolutionaries.  These bizarre over simplifications and hyperbole address your pro conservative bias, and you should accept it if you want to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 24, 2018, 04:27:01 PM
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Yes, but are you virtuous?  You can show an angry chip on your shoulder at times.

Am I virtuous?  By what standard?  Actually, I don't strive for 'virtue', for that is like beauty--in the eye of the beholder.  I very much have an angry chip on my shoulder at times.  With Trump as president it is impossible not to.  I am like you, I am deeply disillusioned by what my country has become and that makes me angry.  But lately your lashing about is just plain unintelligible.  You seem so infantile in your labeling and pronouncements.  I think you are more disillusioned and angry than I.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 24, 2018, 05:27:09 PM
Hell, the Republican party's not even free of hyper-partisanship in it's own ranks. The extremists hate the less extreme for not being extreme enough. Much like the Middle East, I guess.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 06:02:26 PM
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Yes, you have, but I don't believe it.  You hate liberals but defend conservatives.  If you thought they were both worthy of your disrespect, you wouldn't change the subject, reframe the debate, or deflect criticism of conservatives.  You simply don't allow for any blame of conservatives, even when they truly warrant criticism.  Your, "Yeah, but Hillary," defense exemplifies this.  You buy into all the conservative's liberal stereotyping and parrot their anti-liberal talking points.  Even worse, liberals aren't just social justice warriors, they become communists, or French revolutionaries.  These bizarre over simplifications and hyperbole address your pro conservative bias, and you should accept it if you want to be taken seriously.

I defend traditions, but not because they are traditional.  Conservative isn't traditional ... they are simply reactionary progressives, rather than revolutionary progressives.  Nobody almost, in the US, is actually traditional (count the Amish etc).  The conservatives want to conquer the planet for the wealthy and corporations ... I don't see that as traditional at all.  The liberals want to conquer the planet for the UN and socialism ... I don't see that as liberal at all.

Almost all here are of the revolutionary progressive faction.  Gilgamesh and pr126 are reactionary progressives (they aren't anything like Amish).  This is a great opportunity for clarification.  It is a difference in how consciousness is framed (and I frame differently than when I was younger).

What separates progressive from traditional?  But don't call it regressive, it's pejorative.  Progressives look to the future (reactionaries fear it, revolutionaries embrace it).  Optimists vs pessimists, but future oriented.  Tradition means, look to the past.  And I get more clarity the farther I look back.  How not only is the American Revolution questionable, but so is the Roman Republic and the Athenian Democracy.  This is why I tolerate Islam ... because it is traditional.  I understand exactly what they are about (though I don't think they actually want to live per 1400 years ago).  Same thing with older forms of Christianity (see Catholicism) ... and Hinduism and Buddhism in their historical forms, not as New Age.  Classic paganism is interesting but neo-paganism is questionable, because it is projecting the present into the past.  I have spent the last two months learning what made an ancient Egyptian what he was.  Way before Western civilization was even an idea.  It gives me perspective, just as trying to get into the minds of Eastern culture does.

Y'all don't like the rhetoric?  Well it isn't my isolated view, it is contextual against all the rhetoric spewed by folks here (and anywhere).  Really, now many here will hate a politician's wife because of her clothing?  That isn't rhetorical?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 06:07:33 PM
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Am I virtuous?  By what standard?  Actually, I don't strive for 'virtue', for that is like beauty--in the eye of the beholder.  I very much have an angry chip on my shoulder at times.  With Trump as president it is impossible not to.  I am like you, I am deeply disillusioned by what my country has become and that makes me angry.  But lately your lashing about is just plain unintelligible.  You seem so infantile in your labeling and pronouncements.  I think you are more disillusioned and angry than I.

Yes, there is no truth.  Just feelings.  Reminds me of a song ...

I understand your anger, but of course am upset by it, but not at what you are angry about.  Anger is bad for the holder of it.

Yes, we are both of similar age, similar nationality ... and so are disillusioned.  Isn't it liberating to be free of idealism? (rhetorical question).

I see interesting connections, as memes come up.  Just a humble meme farmer from Kekistan.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on June 24, 2018, 06:59:37 PM
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Yes, there is no truth.  Just feelings.  Reminds me of a song ...

I understand your anger, but of course am upset by it, but not at what you are angry about.  Anger is bad for the holder of it.

Yes, we are both of similar age, similar nationality ... and so are disillusioned.  Isn't it liberating to be free of idealism? (rhetorical question).

I see interesting connections, as memes come up.  Just a humble meme farmer from Kekistan.
Anger is like seeking revenge.  It will consume you if you let it or take it too far.  And all that does is hurt you and nobody else.  So, I do come to anger from time to time (and much more now than in the past)--but I do try to let that go after a bit.  I don't think I've ever been 'idealistic' so I can't really be free of something I've not been bound up with.  Actually, that was considered a problem by myself early in life.  I wanted to fit 'in' and idealism would have made that easier.  But as much as I wanted to embrace one idealism or another, I simply could not buy all that waneeded to buy into any particular idealism.  I just picked this idea and that idea and ran with that.  That did not lead to any particular group, in fact it seemed to keep me out of most.  As it turns out idealism is an individual thing, so I guess I am idealistic in my own way.  Sort of like the meaning of my life is unique to me.   I too, see interesting (and odd to most other people) connections, but I try not to be consumed by them or over blow them or beat them to death.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 24, 2018, 11:24:03 PM
All good points.  Heartfelt.  Real.

Well pessimists are never disappointed ;-)  Outside of rhetoric, I am optimistic, because young people make me be optimistic.  Then again, I wouldn't be young again, for any reason.  No reason to give up hard earned experience.

Probably what draws us together, is we both follow our own drummer.

Being too self involved, is solipsist.  I am glad there are other people, would have no balance without them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 24, 2018, 11:41:32 PM
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Could she possibly have not known what she was wearing? Like putting a sign on someone's back that says "kick me"? Maybe a staffer thought they were being funny?

The message on the jacket was a very poor choice.  But she is a model and married to The Donald and used to stupid messages, so it probably didn't register with her.  But mostly, she doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on June 25, 2018, 01:25:37 PM
It's just that she (as far as I know) has never worn anything else like that, or even anything with words on it. So why would she have chosen that particular trip to have worn the silly thing? I already thought we were in the Bizarro universe, but now I'm sure.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on June 28, 2018, 03:47:11 AM
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It's just that she (as far as I know) has never worn anything else like that, or even anything with words on it. So why would she have chosen that particular trip to have worn the silly thing? I already thought we were in the Bizarro universe, but now I'm sure.

Well, I've worn some pretty stupid messages on shirts than seemed clever at the time, but my shirts held not international impact.  But for someone on the international stage, at an event designed to have meaning, who let her out dressed in that PARTICULAR jacket?  Wasn't there anyone who had a jacket for her saying "I Love You All"?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2018, 03:54:01 AM
I have wondered about women's clothing with trendy French on it ... does the woman know what it says?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 13, 2018, 04:44:18 PM
How many Americans will ever even hear about this?

Quote
WASHINGTON — The U.S. has the authority to keep prisoners locked up at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp for a century without charging them with a crime, as long as the U.S. keeps fighting terrorist groups like the Taliban, al Qaeda or its affiliates, the Trump administration argued in federal court on Wednesday...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc5jr_l_i10

If this can be done to anyone, it can be done to YOU!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 13, 2018, 07:14:45 PM
Sorry, but after the D party fucked the universe, just to be Republican-lite ... I no longer care about due process.

The best "bleeding heart" is right after you put your bayonet thru it ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 14, 2018, 09:58:48 PM
Oh yeah.  As if I didn't already think the Orange Disaster Area was a fucking asshole.  That Russian hacking that Mueller issued twelve indictments over?  It's Obama's fault, not Russia's (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44833479).

Jesus H. motherfucking Christ on a popsicle stick.  What a piece of fucking shit.  And now he's off to Finland to plaster his lips all over Putin's ass.

I am genuinely thankful that there is no reason to think I will ever have to look on him in person, because I fucking well *would* spit on him and call him "Traitor" to his face rather than shake his hand.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 14, 2018, 10:34:03 PM
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Oh yeah.  As if I didn't already think the Orange Disaster Area was a fucking asshole.  That Russian hacking that Mueller issued twelve indictments over?  It's Obama's fault, not Russia's (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44833479).

Jesus H. motherfucking Christ on a popsicle stick.  What a piece of fucking shit.  And now he's off to Finland to plaster his lips all over Putin's ass.

I am genuinely thankful that there is no reason to think I will ever have to look on him in person, because I fucking well *would* spit on him and call him "Traitor" to his face rather than shake his hand.

Obama is a Trump puppet, Hillary is a Trump puppet, George Shrub another Trump puppet ... is there no super power he doesn't have?

Who killed Seth Rich?  Why do they want to kill Julian Assange?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 15, 2018, 07:51:22 PM
This country is going to go down hill fast:



Quote
This week, the Trump Department of Justice actually argued in court that gay people aren’t protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and therefore employers should be able to fire someone based solely on their sexual orientation. The administration is openly advocating for bigotry against a large population of its own citizens with this argument, as Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins explains.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECffphRarQI


I'm afraid once the SCOTUS is sufficiently stacked with right-wing politicos, the GOP will never lose another SCOTUS case. Where will America be in a decade?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 15, 2018, 11:09:18 PM
I think it is OK to fire people for being members of a banned political party.  I would ban both D and R parties ... recalcitrants should then lose their jobs.  Free trip to Venezuela for Ds and to Somalia for Rs.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 17, 2018, 03:12:28 AM
The past quarter century or so has been a slow slide into intolerance in the US.  Bush senior once said he didn't think atheists should be considered citizens, and looking back he was a "tolerant Republican".  Bush junior  said he "he saw a soul" in Putin.  They have gotten less sensible and less tolerant ever since, to the point where they will deliberately separate children from their parents now as a tactical maneuver, accept Russian intrusions into our elections, and  think trade wars are good for US farmers and manufacturers.

Farmers can't leave the US but manufacturers are all planning to move production overseas.  Gee that sure makes things better here, right?

Trump wants to be "one of the big guys".  Unfortunately, the "guys" are Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran; the least democratic and free nations on the Earth. 

Trump is a loser on the wordlwide stage he is playing on.  I would love to play him at chess.  He would just throw his pieces out on the board one at a time, having no concept of a coordinated attack.

It wouldn't be such a disaster if he understood his limitations.  There have been Presidents who were not up to the job but paid attention to experienced advisors.  But Trump will not even do that. 

Trump does deserve to be impeached, but that won't happen unless the Democrats have a sweeping election in November to the point where both the House and the Senate are a large majority.

I will hope for that, but I don't expect that in the Senate.  So basically, the House will have to reassert it's powers and stop the Orange Idiot.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2018, 06:35:16 AM
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The past quarter century or so has been a slow slide into intolerance in the US.  Bush senior once said he didn't think atheists should be considered citizens, and looking back he was a "tolerant Republican".  Bush junior  said he "he saw a soul" in Putin.  They have gotten less sensible and less tolerant ever since, to the point where they will deliberately separate children from their parents now as a tactical maneuver, accept Russian intrusions into our elections, and  think trade wars are good for US farmers and manufacturers.

Farmers can't leave the US but manufacturers are all planning to move production overseas.  Gee that sure makes things better here, right?

Trump wants to be "one of the big guys".  Unfortunately, the "guys" are Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran; the least democratic and free nations on the Earth. 

Trump is a loser on the wordlwide stage he is playing on.  I would love to play him at chess.  He would just throw his pieces out on the board one at a time, having no concept of a coordinated attack.

It wouldn't be such a disaster if he understood his limitations.  There have been Presidents who were not up to the job but paid attention to experienced advisors.  But Trump will not even do that. 

Trump does deserve to be impeached, but that won't happen unless the Democrats have a sweeping election in November to the point where both the House and the Senate are a large majority.

I will hope for that, but I don't expect that in the Senate.  So basically, the House will have to reassert it's powers and stop the Orange Idiot.

I guess you never heard about the Whites Only lunch counters?  Yes, only in recent times have Americans been violent monkeys.  But you are correct, the House is the center of any real democracy.  That was by design.  But the founders distrusted democracy ... hence the emphasis on republic ... which was radical in its own time ... what no king?  Well Washington was a bit of a king for 8 years, after the coup of 1787.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 17, 2018, 08:27:14 PM
Anyone not sickened by Trump's performance in Helsinki is no patriot!

It seems that Vlad the Impaler has impaled The Donald...and by extension, America.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2018, 08:57:23 PM
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Anyone not sickened by Trump's performance in Helsinki is no patriot!

It seems that Vlad the Impaler has impaled The Donald...and by extension, America.

Is that you, Senator McCarthy?  I thought you were long dead ;-(

You have lost all perspective in your expression ... but I wouldn't censor you, that is too Franco-German ... see next post

Vlad was from what is now Romania.  And the present Queen of GB is a direct descendant of said Vlad.  Which is simply Slavic for James.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2018, 08:59:41 PM
Proper description of Anglo-American free speech ... in proper English ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Qep46tQoQ

The values of censorship is Russian and Catholic ... the values of blocking hate speech is French and German.

Of course those opposed to free speech, are in the same Western family as England and America ... if you don't mind sharing the cattle car with Robespierre and Hitler.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 18, 2018, 04:30:48 PM
In battle for nonverbal dominance at U.S.-Russia summit, Putin was the clear winner, experts say (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/07/17/in-battle-for-nonverbal-dominance-at-u-s-russia-summit-putin-was-the-clear-winner-experts-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96f89a6f006f)
Quote
Carrie Keating was almost slack-jawed with amazement by the end of President Trump’s news conference with Russian leader Vladimir Putin Monday. Keating has studied the nonverbal gestures of politicians for three decades, but she found the performance between the two men on the stage nothing short of incredible.

“Whoever made the arrangements, they so clearly favored Putin. You saw him do almost every dominant behavior you could stage in social science lab study,” said Keating, a psychology professor who studies charisma and leadership at Colgate University.

Keating quickly ticked off more than a dozen nonverbal assertions of dominance by Putin — including Putin’s agile hop onto the podium (vs. Trump’s lumbering walk), Putin’s animated gestures and the way he often disregarded the audience when speaking.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 18, 2018, 04:41:47 PM
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This country is going to go down hill fast:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECffphRarQI


I'm afraid once the SCOTUS is sufficiently stacked with right-wing politicos, the GOP will never lose another SCOTUS case. Where will America be in a decade?

Shit and the libertarians and republicans are so into their shit they lack insight.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2018, 07:19:17 PM
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In battle for nonverbal dominance at U.S.-Russia summit, Putin was the clear winner, experts say (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/07/17/in-battle-for-nonverbal-dominance-at-u-s-russia-summit-putin-was-the-clear-winner-experts-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96f89a6f006f)

I love it!  Used to be that Western pundits engaged in the black arts of Kremlinology.  Now they do Trumpology ... while being paid by Soros.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 18, 2018, 09:10:25 PM
They keep saying that since we are not at war with Russia it isn't treasonous for Trump to act like Putin is his bro while Russia has tampered with the election and is still tampering with our politics. It's like their stupid or something.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 01:00:29 AM
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They keep saying that since we are not at war with Russia it isn't treasonous for Trump to act like Putin is his bro while Russia has tampered with the election and is still tampering with our politics. It's like their stupid or something.

You are wrong.  The US is at war with Russia.  At war with everyone.  It is the only way we can keep our economy energized since 1940.

So, was Obama treasonous because he met with Putin?  Aren't all Americans treasonous per King George III?

All nations tamper, we tamper with our own elections.  Didn't you know that the Democrats stole the 1960 election, by stuffing ballots of dead people in Chicago?  Don't be naive.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 19, 2018, 01:54:03 PM
I think Russia's attack on our election was an act of war. I'd really hate to get in a shooting war with them, but we need to do something that will get their attention so they won't keep doing that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on July 19, 2018, 02:58:34 PM
I am in ways glad this won't end in bloodshed most likely, and Russia will walk all over us... but I hope I have time to jump ship before they sink it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
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I am in ways glad this won't end in bloodshed most likely, and Russia will walk all over us...
For now.  But I'd wager that between Trump and Crimea (and oopsie, shooting down a civilian plane), they've brought down serious long-term repercussions that counteract any short-term gains.

In a few years, Trump will be out of office and Putin's Russia still has just as much enemies but not as much friends, especially in high places.

The probable end results of the Second Cold War look much the same as the first.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on July 19, 2018, 03:31:05 PM
Maybe China/India will take over, and put us squabbling has-beens in the corner.

Life and the death of empires was so much easier before M.A.D. ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2018, 04:01:32 PM
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Maybe China/India will take over, and put us squabbling has-beens in the corner.
Be careful what you wish for...

I dunno about India, but China has actually been making great improvements, especially in alternative energy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China) and beefing up R&D (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-r-d/china-spends-279-bln-on-rd-in-2017-science-minister-idUSKCN1GB018), particularly AI (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/why-china-will-win-the-global-battle-for-ai-dominance).

Barring some sort of military confrontation or similar disaster, they are on track to becoming an increasingly powerful player in global politics.

The funny thing is that China's strategy is almost the exact opposite as Russia.  Instead of engaging in military adventurism and meddling with rivals (which angers them and brings down sanctions), China is going for a much more peaceable strategy of economic growth and technological gain, which has been working wonders for them so far.

Basically, China is going for the tech/science victory while Russia is going for a more rush-heavy domination victory.  It doesn't take a genius to realize which strat is going to work better long-term.

And the crazy thing is that all this is going down in an autocracy, which seemingly is absolutely horrendous to a country's wellbeing.

My theory for the longest time was that individual freedom is absolutely vital for the success of a country - that all other things being equal, countries with western-style democracy outperform countries with autocratic or dictatorial forms of government.  While I'm not giving up on that idea, these developments are certainly casting doubts on it.

Hell, Chinese state media (and common Chinese people) used Trump as an example of how democracy sucks (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/17/democracy-is-a-joke-says-china-just-look-at-donald-trump) and I've gotta say, they're not wrong.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 19, 2018, 05:41:29 PM
Wanna see some pictures of Trump? Just google the word "idiot." :-p
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 07:20:52 PM
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I am in ways glad this won't end in bloodshed most likely, and Russia will walk all over us... but I hope I have time to jump ship before they sink it.

Venezuela or S Africa awaits.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
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I think Russia's attack on our election was an act of war. I'd really hate to get in a shooting war with them, but we need to do something that will get their attention so they won't keep doing that sort of thing.

Everyone is at war.  Why do you think otherwise?  And yes, get the Russian's attention ... tell Vladimir to put on a shirt, when he rides horses in Siberia, looking all sexy like King Julian ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
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For now.  But I'd wager that between Trump and Crimea (and oopsie, shooting down a civilian plane), they've brought down serious long-term repercussions that counteract any short-term gains.

In a few years, Trump will be out of office and Putin's Russia still has just as much enemies but not as much friends, especially in high places.

The probable end results of the Second Cold War look much the same as the first.

Zombie Clinton she's our corpse, if she can't rot, nobody can.

Crimea is part of Russia, has been for 200 years.  We brought down the Dutch airliner, but failed in the false flag attempt.  That pacifist Obama is so ... wimpy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 07:24:38 PM
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Maybe China/India will take over, and put us squabbling has-beens in the corner.

Life and the death of empires was so much easier before M.A.D. ...

So yes the Barbarians will win.  Too masculine for the effeminate book readers.  So are you Visigoth or Ostrogoth?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2018, 07:25:24 PM
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Wanna see some pictures of Trump? Just google the word "idiot." :-p

Said by a paper-mache Marx head.

PS ... China was predicted to win in the 21st century, in The Rise And Fall Of The Great Powers (by Kennedy, not that idiot Fukuyama (Mr End of History).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_Powers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man ... the basis of all Western foreign policy since 1992.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2018, 07:05:30 AM
Oh, no, Russia's not trying to hack our elections (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44898505)...

Two priorities: the first one is getting the Orange Disaster Area and Ayatollah Pence out of our White House.

And the second is PHYSICAL BALLOTS.  Electronic voting is not secure.  There's no Constitutional requirement that votes be counted Election night, and I don't give a flying fuck if the media want to be able to report immediately.  Paper ballots aren't 100% secure -- nothing is -- but you can't reach out from a basement in Moscow and flip a switch and fuck over our country.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2018, 12:56:25 PM
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Oh, no, Russia's not trying to hack our elections (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44898505)...

Two priorities: the first one is getting the Orange Disaster Area and Ayatollah Pence out of our White House.

And the second is PHYSICAL BALLOTS.  Electronic voting is not secure.  There's no Constitutional requirement that votes be counted Election night, and I don't give a flying fuck if the media want to be able to report immediately.  Paper ballots aren't 100% secure -- nothing is -- but you can't reach out from a basement in Moscow and flip a switch and fuck over our country.

Sorry, victims of schizophrenia and psychosis ... won't do well at the ballot box.  The D party has to be purged of its infesting Left parasites, or close up shop.  Bernie was just chum to attract the Left-sharks for killing.  I agree, I am grateful my location uses paper ballots (which are then counted electronically).  So why is it OK for the CIA or FBI, to hack our elections?  Why is it OK for Britain (MI5 and MI6) to hack our elections?

Western Intel will defend us from the Left-shark-nado ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAuIXCDd2Fw
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 20, 2018, 01:19:29 PM
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Oh, no, Russia's not trying to hack our elections (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44898505)...

Two priorities: the first one is getting the Orange Disaster Area and Ayatollah Pence out of our White House.

And the second is PHYSICAL BALLOTS.  Electronic voting is not secure.  There's no Constitutional requirement that votes be counted Election night, and I don't give a flying fuck if the media want to be able to report immediately.  Paper ballots aren't 100% secure -- nothing is -- but you can't reach out from a basement in Moscow and flip a switch and fuck over our country.
The GOP doesn't want secure elections, they want to keep open the option of being able to steal elections when they're close enough, which is why they love close elections, because they're much easier to hack. And the media always seems to turn them into a horse race.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 20, 2018, 03:11:16 PM
Just came across this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZv8MsDsdsQ
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2018, 06:55:57 PM
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The GOP doesn't want secure elections, they want to keep open the option of being able to steal elections when they're close enough, which is why they love close elections, because they're much easier to hack. And the media always seems to turn them into a horse race.

Yeah, JFK had old Mayor Daley do it the hard way ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 21, 2018, 01:16:06 AM
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In battle for nonverbal dominance at U.S.-Russia summit, Putin was the clear winner, experts say (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/07/17/in-battle-for-nonverbal-dominance-at-u-s-russia-summit-putin-was-the-clear-winner-experts-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96f89a6f006f)

I also noted that Putin came to the podium at Helsinki with 1/4" thick stack of papers (of facts I assume) and Trump walked up with none.  The deliberate ignorance that Trumps sees as his best talent is fine when arguing with city leaders but NOTHING when experienced international leaders handle him as a clown.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2018, 01:56:10 AM
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I also noted that Putin came to the podium at Helsinki with 1/4" thick stack of papers (of facts I assume) and Trump walked up with none.  The deliberate ignorance that Trumps sees as his best talent is fine when arguing with city leaders but NOTHING when experienced international leaders handle him as a clown.

Yes, proof that Putin can read ... but can't afford a teleprompter as nice as Obama.  Perhaps Trump has eyesight problems?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on July 21, 2018, 03:56:19 AM
 Will impeachment be the next Democratic litmus test? (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/will_impeachment_be_the_next_democratic_litmus_test.html)
Quote
Nothing gets the liberal crazies more energized than the prospect of impeaching Trump.  This worries the national Democratic leadership because its members know that nothing would be more detrimental to their chances of retaking Congress than not only appearing to be off their nuts by calling for the impeachment of a president with no evidence that he's done anything wrong, but also energizing the Republican base, motivating Republicans to come out and vote.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 21, 2018, 04:04:20 AM
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Yes, proof that Putin can read ... but can't afford a teleprompter as nice as Obama.  Perhaps Trump has eyesight problems?

1.  Proof that Putin keeps facts at hand and Trump does not.

2.  The teleprompter was not used by either, and is irrelevant to both anyway.

3.  Obama wasn't involved.  Had he been, he probably would have refuted anything Putin said.

4.  Can't say much about Trump's eyesight.  But he doesn't show any foresight or aftersight.  He just lives in the moment and is shocked when people mention things he has said in the past that contradicts what he is said before.  Well, when you routinely lie, you should at least be smart enough to remember your lies for 6 hours.  Trump can't.  He lies, changes the lie 6 hours later, then reverts to the original lie in another 6 hours. 

5. Trump doesn't have eyesight problems (that I know of) but he sure has memory problems.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2018, 04:07:16 AM
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1.  Proof that Putin keeps facts at hand and Trump does not.

2.  The teleprompter was not used by either, and is irrelevant to both anyway.

3.  Obama wasn't involved.  Had he been, he probably would have refuted anything Putin said.

4.  Can't say much about Trump's eyesight.  But he doesn't show any foresight or aftersight.  He just lives in the moment and is shocked when people mention things he has said in the past that contradicts what he is said before.  Well, when you routinely lie, you should at least be smart enough to remember your lies for 6 hours.  Trump can't.  He lies, changes the lie 6 hours later, then reverts to the original lie in another 6 hours. 

5. Trump doesn't have eyesight problems (that I know of) but he sure has memory problems.

I voted for Obama for President, twice, but not because he was my messiah.  Trump continues what Obama started .. the death of everyone in Ukraine, Libya, Syria and Yemen.  That is how Americans refute ... we murder you.  You may be right about memory problems, you and I have them too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2018, 04:08:26 AM
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Will impeachment be the next Democratic litmus test? (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/will_impeachment_be_the_next_democratic_litmus_test.html)

Nothing ticks off RINOs than Democrat sex maniacs.  Obama wasn't that.  What ticks off DINOs more than any Republican who is not a Clinton.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 21, 2018, 04:34:28 AM
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I voted for Obama for President, twice, but not because he was my messiah.  Trump continues what Obama started .. the death of everyone in Ukraine, Libya, Syria and Yemen.  That is how Americans refute ... we murder you.  You may be right about memory problems, you and I have them too.

"You voted for Obama twice"...  There is hope for you yet.  Well, he wasn't my "messiah" either, just the best candidate at the time.  And likely the President I most agree with in my lifetime.

I was supporting Hillary Clinton in early 2008 and after thinking about what Obama was saying (as opposed to the speeches he was giving) I changed my mind.  I agreed with him more often the more I heard from him.  And then I agreed with with Clinton in 2016 as the best continuation.

The world would have made more sense and been safer if Clinton had been elected in 2016, and Russia had a lot to do with that not happening.  Trump has made the world a more insane place, lost our allies, and encouraged dictators around the world to push. 

Trump WILL go down in US history as the "Worst President Ever". 

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 21, 2018, 08:22:21 AM
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2015 called, they said you need to stop living in it.

I may agree with you, but please don't quote someone and not include their name.  Its too hard to go find it.  Just leave it in the quote, OK?   No offense, just a request.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on July 22, 2018, 08:46:23 AM
(https://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2018-07/207775_5_.jpg)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 11:09:00 AM
Impeachment is a political show trial.  That is what the impeachment against President Andrew Johnson (Southern VP under Lincoln in 1865) and President Bill Clinton (again, against a Southern boy) was all about.  That is what the threatened impeachment against Nixon was all about.  Presidents before and after Nixon did far worse!  So yes, Trump could be impeached, and still get acquitted (as did Johnson and Clinton).  But it would be all about getting revenge for the D party losing (when they had a sure win) in 2016.  And about revenge for the D party losing (when they had a sure win) in 2000.  D's just can win for losing, literally.  Al and Hillary were lame candidates.  Was their nomination ... deliberate?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on July 22, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
Quote
Was their nomination ... deliberate?

I believe it was. Nobody expected Trump to win, except Trump.
Same as with Mitt Romney.

I also believe that Obama was selected, not elected.

Think of a 2 horse race.
Put up your favorite horse and a lame horse, that you know it can't win.
This time the favorite didn't win. Despite the race was rigged.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 12:05:26 PM
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I believe it was. Nobody expected Trump to win, except Trump.
Same as with Mitt Romney.

I also believe that Obama was selected, not elected.

Think of a 2 horse race.
Put up your favorite horse and a lame horse, that you know it can't win.
This time the favorite didn't win. Despite the race was rigged.

Smart people only play with dice, that are weighted in their favor.  Fair fight is for children.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on July 22, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
"Madam President" is threatening to run again in 2020.
Which is funny because she can hardly walk. She has serious health issues. 

If she appears in a wheelchair, the media will swoon, look, just like FDR.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on July 22, 2018, 01:07:41 PM
Me after reading that tirade...

(https://i.gifer.com/YX8.gif)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 01:11:19 PM
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Me after reading that tirade...

(https://i.gifer.com/YX8.gif)

If you like political show trials, how about show trials for student demonstrators?  Not so funny then.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 22, 2018, 05:23:07 PM
Only two men have become president in modern time without winning the popular vote - both Republicans: 43 was put in office by SCOTUS, and 45 by the electoral college.

And yet you claim it's Democrats that steal elections?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on July 22, 2018, 05:41:51 PM
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Only two men have become president in modern time without winning the popular vote - both Republicans: 43 was put in office by SCOTUS, and 45 by the electoral college.

And yet you claim it's Democrats that steal elections?

Don't even get me started on gerrymandering and voter i.d. laws.

Not to say Democrats don't love themselves some good ol' gerrymandering themselves, but Republicans have taken it to the next level.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
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Only two men have become president in modern time without winning the popular vote - both Republicans: 43 was put in office by SCOTUS, and 45 by the electoral college.

And yet you claim it's Democrats that steal elections?

Yes, 1963 was the Stone Age ... or at least right after that, all Left thinking Americans got some drugs and got stoned;-(

And about Hillary and her bastardizing of the 2016 primaries and D-convention ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
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Don't even get me started on gerrymandering and voter i.d. laws.

Not to say Democrats don't love themselves some good ol' gerrymandering themselves, but Republicans have taken it to the next level.

Crying over spilt milk and sour grapes ... yuck combination.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 22, 2018, 07:59:11 PM
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Only two men have become president in modern time without winning the popular vote - both Republicans: 43 was put in office by SCOTUS, and 45 by the electoral college.

And yet you claim it's Democrats that steal elections?
That's one of the core rules of the Big Lie tactic: loudly accuse your opponents of that which your own side is guilty.  Having actual evidence of the accusation is of no relevance; having contradictory evidence is to be ignored loudly (for example, "fake news").
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 22, 2018, 08:07:33 PM
That's why he called Peter Strzok's testimony "disgusting." Pot, kettle and black - sounds like a law firm.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 22, 2018, 08:22:46 PM
Trump doesn't wake with a morning wood, but with a woodn't.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2018, 11:08:47 PM
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That's why he called Peter Strzok's testimony "disgusting." Pot, kettle and black - sounds like a law firm.

Don't know what was wrong with him, maybe MK-Ultra conditioning?  But Strzok gesticulated his face like out of The Exorcist.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 23, 2018, 01:31:04 PM
Facial gesticulation? First time I've come across that phrase. You're a real wordsmith!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 23, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
State Department deletes a statement condemning Russia over MH17 downing right after Trump's Putin summit (https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-deletes-statement-criticizing-russia-over-mh17-attack-trump-putin-2018-7)

It's stuff like this that makes people wonder about the Prez being in Putin's pocket.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
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Facial gesticulation? First time I've come across that phrase. You're a real wordsmith!

Thanks.  But William F Buckley I ain't ;-)  His bizarre gesticulation was all over the Internet the day he ... fibbed.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2018, 09:51:08 PM
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State Department deletes a statement condemning Russia over MH17 downing right after Trump's Putin summit (https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-deletes-statement-criticizing-russia-over-mh17-attack-trump-putin-2018-7)

It's stuff like this that makes people wonder about the Prez being in Putin's pocket.

It was never proven who shot it down.  But we can assume that Hades lies directly under the Kremlin ... atheists are experts at that kind of thing ;-)

Best bets it was the Kiev government false flag, trying to make the Donbas folks look guilty, or the Russians.  The US is allied to actual Nazis in Kiev.  I am sure Democrats are very proud of Joe Biden's terrorism support ... as they are supportive of McCain's support of ISIS in Syria.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 05:17:08 AM
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"Madam President" is threatening to run again in 2020.
Which is funny because she can hardly walk. She has serious health issues. 

If she appears in a wheelchair, the media will swoon, look, just like FDR.

Well, Hillary Clinton isn't being pushed around in a wheelchair, though you may have seen some photoshopped images on Fox or bad blogs.  But she won't run again.

Biden might, but there are probably more interesting and younger candidates more suited to the current electorate.  I won't suggest any ones in particular. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 03:16:28 PM
Quote
President Trump drew comparisons to George Orwell’s 1984 in an attack on the media during a speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention Tuesday.

In his address to the convention in Kansas City, Trump defended his decision to slap tariffs on the U.S.’s trading partners. As Trump told the crowd that “it’s all working out,” he warned those in the audience against believing what they see in the news.

“What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening,” Trump said.

For some, the quote immediately recalled a line from Orwell’s dystopian novel 1984: “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”



'What You're Seeing... Is Not What's Happening.' People Are Comparing This Trump Quote to George Orwell (http://time.com/5347737/trump-quote-george-orwell-vfw-speech/)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 03:23:24 PM
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'What You're Seeing... Is Not What's Happening.' People Are Comparing This Trump Quote to George Orwell (http://time.com/5347737/trump-quote-george-orwell-vfw-speech/)

Of course.  And for good reason.  Trump isn't Big Brother.  But he might be the grandfather of Big Brother if we aren't careful. 

Ben Franklin once said that "we have given you a republic, if you can keep it".  That's the question now.  Rome wasn't built in a day, and it didn't fall in a day either.

Will a democracy republic last?  Ask the Greeks, Romans, French...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 25, 2018, 03:36:38 PM
The Orange Disaster Area on tape discussing paying off a model over an affair with his then-lawyer (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44949500).  Y'know, after repeatedly denying knowing anything about it although he's already admitted reimbursing his lawyer for the payout.  No wonder he wants people to not believe their eyes and ears.

I'm having me a warm and fuzzy Watergate flashback, m'self.  Ah, tapes.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 03:43:11 PM
For now they're playing tapes, I hope soon they'll be playing Taps.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 03:46:08 PM
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The Orange Disaster Area on tape discussing paying off a model over an affair with his then-lawyer (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44949500).  Y'know, after repeatedly denying knowing anything about it although he's already admitted reimbursing his lawyer for the payout.  No wonder he wants people to not believe their eyes and ears.

I'm having me a warm and fuzzy Watergate flashback, m'self.  Ah, tapes.

MSNBC has been big on the Watergate comparisons lately.  But we had a Congress with stature and self-identity then.  They told Nixon to leave and he did.  Can you even IMAGINE Trump paying any attention to Congress now?  Trump will have to go kicking and screaming, dragged by his heels and he STILL might win in 2020 if the courts he has arranged allow it (and they will 5-4 all the way).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 03:54:23 PM
Don't believe your lying eyes, believe your lying president.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 04:04:23 PM
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Don't believe your lying eyes, believer your lying president.

Well that's what Trump keeps saying. Are you suggesting his inflamed supporters will suddenly become analytical?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 04:11:11 PM
No, just the first two syllables of that word...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 04:57:33 PM
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No, just the first two syllables of that word...

You meant of course "in" and "flamed."  LOL!

I actually had to decide if "flamed" was one syllable or two...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 04:59:06 PM
No, I meant the first two syllables of "analytical." :-P
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 05:00:23 PM
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No, I meant the first two syllables of "analytical." :-P

I know, I know, LOL!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 06:46:57 PM
Now Trump's claiming that Russia will interfere in the mid-term elections - for the Democratic party!

He's just planting a seed in his base, so if the Dems do well they'll think Russia helped them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 25, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
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Now Trump's claiming that Russia will interfere in the mid-term elections - for the Democratic party!
He would know all about that.  One wonders if he was told to say that by Putin.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 25, 2018, 07:05:59 PM
One does, indeed...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 25, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
Cut out the Middle Man.  I would vote directly for Putin myself.  He looks better without a shirt than Hillary or Donald.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on July 25, 2018, 08:23:20 PM
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Cut out the Middle Man.  I would vote directly for Putin myself.  He looks better without a shirt than Hillary or Donald.

Oh... I like it but the visual is just nasty.  Thanks a lot. 

I'm heading for the liquor cabinet in hopes that whiskey will cleanse the palate.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 25, 2018, 08:30:46 PM
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Oh... I like it but the visual is just nasty.  Thanks a lot. 

I'm heading for the liquor cabinet in hopes that whiskey will cleanse the palate.

Russians are superior men ... and Western dandies just can't handle it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 26, 2018, 07:17:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSASHp7enk
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 26, 2018, 07:24:55 PM
Sam Seder?  Last name is Jewish.  Why are you watching that Rothschild mouthpiece?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 26, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
What!?

 That's one of the most stupid things I've ever seen you ask - and that's saying a lot!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbHnvWjhhCw
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 26, 2018, 08:01:54 PM
You responded, didn't you?  Mission Accomplished!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 26, 2018, 08:07:29 PM
Meathead!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 26, 2018, 08:11:50 PM
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Meathead!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TewJlc6BA
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 27, 2018, 10:28:35 AM
I am irresistably reminded of the summer of 1973:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0sNwyV_fEM

Turns out (surprise surprise) the Orange Disaster Area knew about the meeting between his aides and a Russian delegation (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44976725).

In other news, the Congressional GOP continues to sit on their collective ass and do nothing about their crook in the White House, when we all know they would've started impeachment hearings on any Democrat with a twentieth the dirt that's already been dug up on Lord Dampnut.

Oh no, the one they want to impeach is Rod Rosenstein (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/26/the-articles-of-impeachment-against-rod-roesnstein-annotated/?utm_term=.1edb0c3e975a).  Basically for just doing his job.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on July 27, 2018, 11:13:59 AM
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In other news, the Congressional GOP continues to sit on their collective ass and do nothing about their crook in the White House, when we all know they would've started impeachment hearings...
I am beginning to think that they are not doing nothing; they seem to be working overtime to keep the truth from the US public and to block having anything done to Trump.  Money runs deep.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 27, 2018, 11:19:41 AM
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Oh no, the one they want to impeach is Rod Rosenstein (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/26/the-articles-of-impeachment-against-rod-roesnstein-annotated/?utm_term=.1edb0c3e975a).  Basically for just doing his job.
I heard about that.  A family member said that the House was bringing up articles of impeachment.  I was briefly impressed by their sudden courage against Il Dunce.  Turns out it's just Trump sycophants with an axe to grind against the Old Guard for making The Don uncomfortable.  :/
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 27, 2018, 12:52:45 PM
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I heard about that.  A family member said that the House was bringing up articles of impeachment.  I was briefly impressed by their sudden courage against Il Dunce.  Turns out it's just Trump sycophants with an axe to grind against the Old Guard for making The Don uncomfortable.  :/

Impeachment against Rosenstein, for delaying or obfuscating documents demanded by Congress.  Nothing will happen.  Citizens can go back to sheep (I mean sleep).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 27, 2018, 01:11:13 PM
Yeah, I heard they backed off on the Rosenstein impeachment, at least for now. But for crying out loud, on July 4th(!) the GOP were in Moscow glad-handing the Russians!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 27, 2018, 02:24:13 PM
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I am beginning to think that they are not doing nothing; they seem to be working overtime to keep the truth from the US public and to block having anything done to Trump.  Money runs deep.
See, that's the part that doesn't make sense.  A lot of them -- at least the leadership -- have been in politics long enough to know that they're going to get clobbered this November despite the brave face they try to put on it, and a significant chunk of the money is going to follow the power, not their party, and they can't not know that.  Worse, even some of their traditional sugar daddies like the Kochs are known to be squeamish about the Orange Disaster Area, especially with trade war talk in the air.

So mainstream Republicans are either not fired up about voting this fall, or are pissed off about what their party leader is doing and going to vote for someone else (not necessarily the Democrat, just not the Republican) if they vote at all, independents are swinging away from them hard, and Democrats are more fired up than they've been in ages.  If you go over the polling -- take your choice of sites, 538, RCP, Sabato -- even the built-in gerrymandered advantage isn't going to help them beyond mitigating the damage.  And the only thing they can count on the Orange Disaster Area to do is aperiodically dip his oar in with something that's only going to piss off more people than it pleases.  They can't get elected on their knuckledraggers alone (in most places).  I think that's why so many of them are retiring this year, they want to leave before they get kicked out.

I'll get the popcorn.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on July 27, 2018, 03:09:32 PM
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See, that's the part that doesn't make sense.  A lot of them -- at least the leadership -- have been in politics long enough to know that they're going to get clobbered this November despite the brave face they try to put on it, and a significant chunk of the money is going to follow the power, not their party, and they can't not know that.  Worse, even some of their traditional sugar daddies like the Kochs are known to be squeamish about the Orange Disaster Area, especially with trade war talk in the air.

So mainstream Republicans are either not fired up about voting this fall, or are pissed off about what their party leader is doing and going to vote for someone else (not necessarily the Democrat, just not the Republican) if they vote at all, independents are swinging away from them hard, and Democrats are more fired up than they've been in ages.  If you go over the polling -- take your choice of sites, 538, RCP, Sabato -- even the built-in gerrymandered advantage isn't going to help them beyond mitigating the damage.  And the only thing they can count on the Orange Disaster Area to do is aperiodically dip his oar in with something that's only going to piss off more people than it pleases.  They can't get elected on their knuckledraggers alone (in most places).  I think that's why so many of them are retiring this year, they want to leave before they get kicked out.

I'll get the popcorn.
I want so very much to go along with what you just said.  It makes sense.  It is very reasonable.  That's the problem for me, though.  Reasoning seems to have gone out the window.  I still have this sinking feeling (can't sink much more, can it??????) that the Repubs will still be in control after Nov.  Doesn't make sense, isn't reasonable---but there it is.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 27, 2018, 03:19:35 PM
I agree Mike. The GOP will do whatever they see as necessary to maintain their control of both the House and Senate. They're very good at stealing elections and getting away with it - it's what they do.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 27, 2018, 03:24:35 PM
It's certainly possible.  The trend is against them, but there's still a few months left, and Bob knows anything can happen.  The numbers are actually more difficult for the Senate than the House -- most of the tossup seats in play are Democrats in red states, but divided control will be better than nothing.

And, I'm a 'glass half full' kind of guy.

Actually, I'm a 'why is the glass twice as big as it needs to be' kind of guy, but you know what I mean. :D
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on July 27, 2018, 03:40:51 PM
I cant help but wonder just how many Republicans (and Democrats) have been compromised by the Russians. Perhaps this "loyalty" to Trump is much more about self-preservation than any ideological conviction.

Remember Roy Moore busting into Russian like it was nothing? Remember just how vehemently Donald Trump backed a child-molesting, far-right nutjob (who happens to be full of praise for Putin)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbpZ1-W_Ipc[/youtube

By itself it certainly was interesting, but nothing particularly fishy. But when you look at how deeply Russian money (and apparently agents) have infiltrated our politics... even if it completely innocent, it becomes incredibly suspicious.


I don't think cutting off the head will fix the problem anymore; even with Trump gone both our politics and frankly our society has been heavily influenced and manipulated by the Russians, and it's going to take some real work to fix that. I am not particularly convinced we can.


I always believed the Cold War was over, but it really feels more and more like the Soviets never really went away, they just shrunk... and now they are winning. China has essentially assumed the role as the world super-power and are greatly expanding their influence in Africa (which is an unbelievable resource pool to have), and the Russians and all their puppet states across the Middle East are actively over-throwing Eastern governments, occupying European countries and destabilizing NATO from within.

Likewise when you look at global trend... democracies are decreasing, and autocracies are on the rise... which again favours China and Russia over NATO and the States.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 27, 2018, 07:39:17 PM
I will praise Putin.  He is a Russian patriot.  And neither Russians, nor patriots, deserve your hate.  Y'all sound so much like LBJ, in 1965 ... oh right, he was a Democrat too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 27, 2018, 07:42:29 PM
Now that we know you say stupid shit just to get a rise out of us, you can go fuck with someone else - see if you can find anyone who gives a damn what you have to say.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 27, 2018, 07:47:53 PM
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Now that we know you say stupid shit just to get a rise out of us, you can go fuck with someone else - see if you can find anyone who give a damn what you have to say.

Well you can go %&%^$^ with a bunch of drugged up yippies, if you can find a time machine to get back to the 1968 Democrat National Convention.  Don't think you can.  I would have been happy if the 60s Establishment had simply shown y'all no mercy at all ... well actually sad, but a happy kind of sad.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 27, 2018, 07:49:20 PM
Fuck off twit.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 27, 2018, 07:56:40 PM
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Fuck off twit.

Young SJW of 1918 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwsrapJcA0

Young people today think they are doing something new ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 28, 2018, 05:16:30 AM
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I always believed the Cold War was over, but it really feels more and more like the Soviets never really went away, they just shrunk... and now they are winning. China has essentially assumed the role as the world super-power and are greatly expanding their influence in Africa (which is an unbelievable resource pool to have), and the Russians and all their puppet states across the Middle East are actively over-throwing Eastern governments, occupying European countries and destabilizing NATO from within.
More or less.  Never forget that Vlad the Impaler Putin spent 16 years as an officer in the KGB, from Brezhnev in 1975 through Andropov and Chernenko and ultimately Gorbachev in 1991, and later spent a year as director of the KGB's successor agency, the FSB, under Yeltsin.  He practices national oligarchy and international destabilization as if the Politburo never went away.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 28, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
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More or less.  Never forget that Vlad the Impaler Putin spent 16 years as an officer in the KGB, from Brezhnev in 1975 through Andropov and Chernenko and ultimately Gorbachev in 1991, and later spent a year as director of the KGB's successor agency, the FSB, under Yeltsin.  He practices national oligarchy and international destabilization as if the Politburo never went away.

And you listen to everything the US 17 Intel agencies say?  They killed JFK, or have you forgotten that. The Cold War never ended in the US either, the US cannot be sustained, without war ... just like the Mongol Horde.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 28, 2018, 02:47:35 PM
Should we be prepared for a false flag attack on the U.S. to gin up support for war? Would Trump go to war to gin up support for himself? Might he try to use a war with Iran as a weapon of mass distraction to divert attention away from his treason? Would America gain anything by bombing Iran? Does anyone really care? War would be great news for "defense" contractors - they'd rake in hundreds of billions of $$$$, so they likely will push hard for a war with anyone, they love war.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kojDxlJbySE


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-27/donald-trump-may-be-prepared-to-strike-iran-sources-say/10037728


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-28/james-mattis-dismisses-reports-possible-strike-iran-as-fiction/10046824


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/30/bolton-iran-mek-terrorism-trump/
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on July 28, 2018, 04:11:47 PM
"Would Trump go to war to gin up support for himself?"

Absolutely!  There would be no downside to a war for Trump.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 28, 2018, 08:50:39 PM
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Should we be prepared for a false flag attack on the U.S. to gin up support for war? Would Trump go to war to gin up support for himself? Might he try to use a war with Iran as a weapon of mass distraction to divert attention away from his treason? Would America gain anything by bombing Iran? Does anyone really care? War would be great news for "defense" contractors - they'd rake in hundreds of billions of $$$$, so they likely will push hard for a war with anyone, they love war.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kojDxlJbySE


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-27/donald-trump-may-be-prepared-to-strike-iran-sources-say/10037728


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-28/james-mattis-dismisses-reports-possible-strike-iran-as-fiction/10046824


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/30/bolton-iran-mek-terrorism-trump/

So which reptile aliens are responsible for 9/11 now?  Are pure energy beings responsible for helping the Russians to figure out Podesta's password was "password"?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 29, 2018, 01:23:54 AM
(https://www.amandamichellejones.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Alphabet-Chart.jpg)

Trump reportedly taught global trade policy with brightly-colored cue cards with minimal information (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-tariffs-eu-colorful-cards-2018-7)

At first, I honestly thought this was a joke.  A satirical portrayal of our stable genius by someone who exaggerates his characteristic dotard qualities to the extreme.  But then I remembered that he reportedly likes single-page memos with his own name sprinkled throughout, otherwise he quickly loses attention.  So, legit?  I really hope not, but it sure seems that way.

Btw, has anyone gotten confirmation that this guy has read a book yet?  Asking for a friend.  At this point, I'd even take his word for it.  If he said he read Animal Farm and thought that Snowball was a cuck and Napoleon "makes the best deals", I'd give him props for reading one more book this year than most of his fanbase.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 29, 2018, 04:01:50 AM
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Would Trump go to war to gin up support for himself? Might he try to use a war with Iran as a weapon of mass distraction to divert attention away from his treason?
Of course he would.  The man is a sociopath.  The only thing that matters to him is himself.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 29, 2018, 09:38:12 AM
Funny that would describe a great many people ... egotistical individualists.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 29, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
I guess we'd better leave Trump alone and stop bad-mouthing him - or else!



Quote
Right wing pastor Franklin Graham, son of the late Billy Graham, has some harsh words for those in the media who are talking about Trump’s payoffs to porn stars and Playboy playmates. Graham says that if they keep talking about these things they will have to face God’s wrath. Graham is just the latest in a long line of false prophets who are earning themselves a one-way ticket to damnation, as Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins explains.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2tLi_J5tMs
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 29, 2018, 07:01:40 PM
The Graham family have been way too connected to politics.  They damage Christianity doing that.  Christianity was meant to be non-political.

Crackers everyone, Graham Crackers that is ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 29, 2018, 07:17:22 PM
So, now Trump threatens to blackmail America. Surprise...he thinks the presidency is a protection racket.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm9XULgu_EQ


Make America Grovel Again!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 29, 2018, 07:18:59 PM
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I guess we'd better leave Trump alone and stop bad-mouthing him - or else!
Franklin Graham...I vaguely recall something about him recently.  *rifles through an overstuffed folder illustrated with a circle labelled "Famous by proxy" overlapping a circle labelled "Says dumb shit constantly"*  Aha!  Here it is.

(https://i.redditmedia.com/UFXvdh_H80dzHvmLWA8PUoL8ER6sKfi3gCznQAoAQoc.jpg?fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&arh=2&w=960&s=f39afd63970d4eab5a24337d9e915988)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 29, 2018, 07:21:25 PM
Trump: "Youse got a nice country here, be a shame if somethin' happened to it..."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on July 29, 2018, 07:24:01 PM
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The Graham family have been way too connected to politics.  They damage Christianity doing that.  Christianity was meant to be non-political.

Crackers everyone, Graham Crackers that is ;-)
Yeah, that's what Constantine thought.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 29, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
Trump likes to pay hush money to people he's screwed - like American farmers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on July 29, 2018, 08:00:17 PM
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Trump likes to pay hush money to people he's screwed - like American farmers.
And every time he screws someone it gets more expensive!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 29, 2018, 10:31:08 PM
Well it refreshing that it is "no longer" OK to be a douche in public office.  Don't nominate them, then you won't have to keep them out of stuffing the ballot box.

Meanwhile .. I have always been divided on "withholding approval" by the President on a bill.  Just veto it, and if they can't overturn the veto, then Congress should resign ;-))
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 30, 2018, 04:54:07 PM
A government of the [corporate] people, by the [corporate] people, and for the [corporate] people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB3MQkGuDJc
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 30, 2018, 06:48:36 PM
Well, if you like your Citizens United, you can keep your Citizens United.  How come Obama never proposed any law to reverse this?  Crickets ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 30, 2018, 07:39:05 PM
If Mueller has such "conflict of interest," why is it just now being mentioned? Did Trump consider this his ace-in-the-hole, to be released at the optimal time? Or has he just made the shit up, like he's been doing for so long?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SivNdA9QMU
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 30, 2018, 08:09:19 PM
Mueller was involved with ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller

Mueller supported the 9-11 fake investigation, supported the 2003 fake invasion of Iraq, he supported early versions of unconstitutional wiretaps we have today.  Pure Deep State guy, and in private practice after corruption and organized crime among other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act_of_1939

Both Republicans and Democrats in high office routinely violate the Hatch Act.  They are partisan, can they be anything else?  So only an Independent prosecutor should be allowed in any investigation ... if you can find one.

He was among those interviewed to be the head of the FBI (for him the second time) and didn't get the job.  Sour grapes?

Does anyone in the US not have a conflict of interest relative to Mr Trump?  See it would be hard to have a fair trial of anyone so famous ... as Nixon, Clinton or Trump.  Not that would ever stop a political show trial.  It was this kind of thing that caused the end of the Roman Republic.

But MSNBC?  Like CNN etc I respect them the same way I respect my toilet paper after I have used it.  Mueller I would respect however (if we ignore his partisan background of course).  I would think y'all would hate him, because of his military service.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 30, 2018, 08:39:20 PM
Now Old Bug Eyes says that collusion is not a crime. He says he's looked through the U.S. code and there's no crime called "collusion." Is he conceding that collusion happened but that it's OK, because it's not a crime? Maybe he should look it up under "conspiracy."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on July 30, 2018, 10:08:39 PM
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Now Old Bug Eyes says that collusion is not a crime. He says he's looked through the U.S. code and there's no crime called "collusion." Is he conceding that collusion happened but that it's OK, because it's not a crime? Maybe he should look it up under "conspiracy."

Let's save time here and call it obstruction.

Much more succinct.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 31, 2018, 02:37:24 AM
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Let's save time here and call it obstruction.

Much more succinct.

Even more succinct ... political parties obstruct each other ... get over it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 31, 2018, 02:38:37 AM
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Now Old Bug Eyes says that collusion is not a crime. He says he's looked through the U.S. code and there's no crime called "collusion." Is he conceding that collusion happened but that it's OK, because it's not a crime? Maybe he should look it up under "conspiracy."

Clintons, Obamas, Clintons again .... conspiracy to commit politics.  But when will the executions start?  That is what y'all want, that and free escargot.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on July 31, 2018, 03:47:55 AM
Dems are unhinged. Mental.

"This isn't politics anymore it is the world's dumbest religion"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8xEw2gjEVk
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on July 31, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
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Let's save time here and call it obstruction.

Much more succinct.
Old Bug Eyes seems to've had a collusion collision!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on July 31, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
Well, now the real trouble for the GOP starts: the Orange Disaster Area has attacked his own party's most reliable deep pockets (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45021213).

I'll make the popcorn — betcha the politicos follow the money, while the knuckledraggers follow Lord Dampnut.  This'll be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on July 31, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
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Well, now the real trouble for the GOP starts: the Orange Disaster Area has attacked his own party's most reliable deep pockets (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45021213).

I'll make the popcorn — betcha the politicos follow the money, while the knuckledraggers follow Lord Dampnut.  This'll be fun to watch.

Yes, maybe the Chinese are right ... Trump is a strategist/tactical genius?  Who doesn't want to poon the Koch brothers?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 01, 2018, 02:04:03 AM
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Let's save time here and call it obstruction.

Much more succinct.

Collision is not specifically a crime.  It is shorthand for conspiracy in many forms though.  Trump et al have gamed the debate talking about collusion not being a crime, when it is the crimes involved in conspiracy that are the crimes.  I am not fooled.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2018, 01:17:30 PM
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Collision is not specifically a crime.  It is shorthand for conspiracy in many forms though.  Trump et al have gamed the debate talking about collusion not being a crime, when it is the crimes involved in conspiracy that are the crimes.  I am not fooled.

Usually it is the coverup that gets you in trouble, not the original scandal.  Ask Nixon.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on August 01, 2018, 09:38:14 PM
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Usually it is the coverup that gets you in trouble, not the original scandal.  Ask Nixon.

Ask the Catholic church.

It isn't' the crime, it's the cover-up.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2018, 10:33:33 PM
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Ask the Catholic church.

It isn't' the crime, it's the cover-up.

Correct, if the bishops had fessed up, I would think the Catholic Church had a future.  A system that relies on self incrimination (confession) shouldn't run out of integrity.  Nobody will trust them enough to self-incriminate.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 03, 2018, 03:24:45 PM
Is Trump really a great businessman, or is he a great Russian asset?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXI6hNwWsOU


Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler? (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html)


All of Trump’s Russia Ties, in 7 Charts (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 03, 2018, 06:10:06 PM
Trump seems to lie every time he opens his mouth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IAgMXtyYtI


He lies when he doesn't even need to lie! I think he lies just for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 03, 2018, 06:40:52 PM
I slurp up Liberal tears with gusto!  With Conservatives, I prefer to drink their blood.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on August 03, 2018, 07:42:36 PM
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Trump seems to lie every time he opens his mouth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IAgMXtyYtI


He lies when he doesn't even need to lie! I think he lies just for the fun of it.
I don't think he even tries to figure out what he says is a lie or not--he doesn't care.  He says whatever he thinks will benefit him the most.  So why would he care about truth--whatever he says when he says it is the truth. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 03, 2018, 07:49:43 PM
I need to get some ID so I can go buy some groceries...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 03, 2018, 08:03:12 PM
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I need to get some ID so I can go buy some groceries...

Can they card paper-mache heads?  Seems inappropriate if the customer is already made of card board.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 12:39:54 AM
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I need to get some ID so I can go buy some groceries...

Yeah, like the grocery store needs a picture ID to sell me broccoli.  Trump is guilty of the failure of the very rich to understand how real life works.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:39:00 AM
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Yeah, like the grocery store needs a picture ID to sell me broccoli.  Trump is guilty of the failure of the very rich to understand how real life works.

True.  See food is a terror weapon.  Only day old bread for you, and Flint Michigan water.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 08:51:00 AM
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True.  See food is a terror weapon.  Only day old bread for you, and Flint Michigan water.

How little you know.  I bake my own bread.  And I even collect pure rainwater in sterile containers...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:54:02 AM
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How little you know.  I bake my own bread.  And I even collect pure rainwater in sterile containers...

Like dairymen who produce unpasteurized milk, the storm troopers will visit you ;-(  You must not be independent of the Food Mafia.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 09:09:14 AM
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Like dairymen who produce unpasteurized milk, the storm troopers will visit you ;-(  You must not be independent of the Food Mafia.

I'm not.  I think.  That is a very bizarre analogy, meaning little but suggesting less.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 09:12:34 AM
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I'm not.  I think.  That is a very bizarre analogy, meaning little but suggesting less.

Don't mention "Monsanto" unless you are all alone in a sound proof closet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5VtuQUL5I

Also don't sell lemonade or hot dogs.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 09:15:06 AM
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Don't mention "Monsanto" unless you are all alone in a sound proof closet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5VtuQUL5I

Also don't sell lemonade or hot dogs.

I think I can safely promise not to sell lemonade hot dogs.  I like mine with mustard.  Sometimes dill relish or even some chili.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 09:16:12 AM
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I think I can safely promise not to sell lemonade hot dogs.  I like mine with mustard.  Sometimes dill relish or even some chili.

Commas not comas.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 09:17:40 AM
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Commas not comas.

Try that one again...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 09:33:29 AM
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Try that one again...

I missed a comma, and then joked about it, recursively.  Higher computer science joke within a joke.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
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How little you know.  I bake my own bread.  And I even collect pure rainwater in sterile containers...
Isn't rain water dangerous? What kind of pollution is in the stuff? Have you ever had it tested for toxins?

Just wondering...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 01:42:53 PM
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Isn't rain water dangerous? What kind of pollution is in the stuff? Have you ever had it tested for toxins?

Just wondering...

Puritans out to protect everyone from themselves, wanna know.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 02:34:59 PM
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Isn't rain water dangerous? What kind of pollution is in the stuff? Have you ever had it tested for toxins?

Just wondering...

The rainwater is for my 6 Venus Fly traps.  I should have explained...  They don't deal well with chlorinated tap water.  That's why most VFTs people buy die.

But I suppose the rainwater would be good in an emergency.  Better than drinking the pond water.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 02:36:22 PM
Cool, I bet those fly traps are a lot more fun than fly swatters!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 02:41:57 PM
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Cool, I bet those fly traps are a lot more fun than fly swatters!

I catch flies inside by hand.  My cats are envious.  If you haven't carefully fed a grabbed housefly into a VFT trap to see it close suddenly, you don't know what lethality is, LOL!  I LOVE those things...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 02:59:29 PM
I tried catching flies with chopsticks, but I sucked at it! ;-D
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 03:45:27 PM
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I tried catching flies with chopsticks, but I sucked at it! ;-D

You must learn the mastery of the single chopstick, only then will you understand the rice...

Seriously, you sucked a fly off a chopstick?  LOL!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 03:54:34 PM
Sure, best way to eat flies! To quote Bobby Fischer -"best by test!"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
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I tried catching flies with chopsticks, but I sucked at it! ;-D

Miyamoto Musashi you are not.  Broken rice bowl too?  Musashi didn't eat the flies, he scared the ninjas.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
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Sure, best way to eat flies! To quote Bobby Fischer -"best by test!"

That is what Count Dracula's assistant said too.  Are you also related to Igor?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 05:04:38 PM
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The rainwater is for my 6 Venus Fly traps.  I should have explained...  They don't deal well with chlorinated tap water.  That's why most VFTs people buy die.

But I suppose the rainwater would be good in an emergency.  Better than drinking the pond water.

Takes scum to know pond scum? (sarc).  Some of the best biological species I know are scum.

Actually I would be afraid of the amoebas and other tiny critters.  Drink them, and die.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 07:27:07 PM
Who Is The Mystery Man Behind @realDonaldTrump? (Besides The President) (https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/603904858/who-is-the-mystery-man-behind-realdonaldtrump-besides-the-president)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 05, 2018, 03:07:05 AM
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Who Is The Mystery Man Behind @realDonaldTrump? (Besides The President) (https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/603904858/who-is-the-mystery-man-behind-realdonaldtrump-besides-the-president)

Speechwriters been in demand ever since politicians got lazy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 06, 2018, 01:49:45 AM
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I catch flies inside by hand.  My cats are envious.  If you haven't carefully fed a grabbed housefly into a VFT trap to see it close suddenly, you don't know what lethality is, LOL!  I LOVE those things...
If you ever visit up this way, I will take you to the carnivorous plants section of the local conservatory.  I really didn't think they'd survive all that well in Ohio, but they do fine even though they're kept outside year-round.  Flytraps, pitcher plants, I think sundews too.

I kept VFTs several years ago, and I was shocked when it flowered.  I had no idea they had flowers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 06, 2018, 06:48:44 AM
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If you ever visit up this way, I will take you to the carnivorous plants section of the local conservatory.  I really didn't think they'd survive all that well in Ohio, but they do fine even though they're kept outside year-round.  Flytraps, pitcher plants, I think sundews too.

I kept VFTs several years ago, and I was shocked when it flowered.  I had no idea they had flowers.

Flowers?  Hippie VFT.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 06, 2018, 02:11:36 PM
Here's a big surprise:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ljINMHC6A


He's not really an actor, he just plays one in the movies...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 06, 2018, 08:01:36 PM
Per Wiki ... Seagal should also get along well with Trump (alleged sexual predation).  I suspect Seagal likes semi-naked men on horseback ;-)

Look what Dennis Rodman did for N Korea!

Here is the guy to act as a peace maker between D and R ... no, not Robin Williams, the two-headed guy ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl3e-OUnavQ
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 06, 2018, 08:06:03 PM
Remember this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFENSU8CmZk

Atheistforums florist
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 08, 2018, 07:03:14 PM
Hell, Trump doesn't even care if he causes his oldest son to go to prison as long as he can save his own ass! WTF!?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 08, 2018, 07:18:33 PM
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Hell, Trump doesn't even care if he causes his oldest son to go to prison as long as he can save his own ass! WTF!?
Really??  I haven't heard anything about this.

Also, *coughingfit*Stalin*coughingfit*
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
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Hell, Trump doesn't even care if he causes his oldest son to go to prison as long as he can save his own ass! WTF!?

The President can pardon anyone, at anytime, for any reason, or no reason at all.  Clinton did.  So you think he wouldn't pardon his oldest son?  Well, maybe he hates his oldest son, wants to teach him a lesson ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2018, 07:43:53 PM
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Really??  I haven't heard anything about this.

Also, *coughingfit*Stalin*coughingfit*

Anyone connected with NYC or New Jersey real estate is a mobster.  But then so are most of the people in Congress.  Cohen clearly is a "consiglieri" aka Jewish mafia lawyer.  Think the Star Trek classic episode where they went to Planet Chicago ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7eGdtvo85U

We are living this right now.

And this is in fact, the greatest live action "reality show" ... it is what the Don does ... capiche?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 09, 2018, 04:44:00 AM
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Sure, best way to eat flies! To quote Bobby Fischer -"best by test!"

That was P-K4...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 09, 2018, 05:58:06 AM
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Really??  I haven't heard anything about this.

Also, *coughingfit*Stalin*coughingfit*
Oh yeah, he chucked Little Donnie under the bus when he tweeted that Junior did in fact meet the Russians at Trump Tower for dirt on political opponents (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45100770), leaving Junior to have to double down on the "it was about adoptions!" story, thus by implication calling the Orange Disaster Area a liar.

I foresee a frosty Thanksgiving dinner with the family in the White House this November...

Anyway, here's your scorecard on how the lies about the Trump Tower meeting have evolved over time (from the above BBC News link):
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2018, 06:42:30 AM
It is hard to control a family business.  The one founded by my father's father, fell apart after he died.  Damn kids!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 09, 2018, 06:51:48 AM
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Oh yeah, he chucked Little Donnie under the bus when he tweeted that Junior did in fact meet the Russians at Trump Tower for dirt on political opponents (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45100770), leaving Junior to have to double down on the "it was about adoptions!" story, thus by implication calling the Orange Disaster Area a liar.

I foresee a frosty Thanksgiving dinner with the family in the White House this November...

Anyway, here's your scorecard on how the lies about the Trump Tower meeting have evolved over time (from the above BBC News link):
  • 8 July 2017: The New York Times reveals the June 2016 meeting took place and Mr Trump Jr releases a statement describing it as a “short introductory meeting” that focused on Russian adoptions
  • 9 July 2017: The Times reports that Mr Trump Jr was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before the meeting. He confirmed the report but said in a second statement that “no meaningful information” came from the meeting
  • 11 July 2017: Mr Trump Jr tweets screenshots of his email correspondence that discussed setting up the meeting just minutes before the email chain was revealed in a Times story. The emails showed he was eager to accept “sensitive” information that was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump”
  • 12-16 July 2017: The president’s lawyer Jay Sekulow denies that Mr Trump was involved in his son’s initial statement to the Times
  • 2 June 2018: The Times reports that Mr Trump’s lawyers wrote a letter to special counsel Mueller acknowledging that he dictated his son’s initial statement
  • 26 July 2018: The president’s former personal lawyer Michael Cohen says that Mr Trump approved the June 2016 meeting, contradicting previous statements by the Trump legal team
  • 5 August 2018: The president says his son took the meeting “to get information on an opponent”, but denies having any knowledge of it

I wonder how long it will take for The Donald to say that his son, Junior,  was just a neighbor and he really never knew much about him...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2018, 06:53:50 AM
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I wonder how long it will take for The Donald to say that his son, Junior,  was just a neighbor and he really never knew much about him...

Like George W and Enron?  Standard procedure man.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 09, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
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That was P-K4...
Oh...uh...yeah, that's the ticket! ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 09, 2018, 07:22:12 PM
This is so hard to believe, how can all these people believe that Trump is the saviour of the planet?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71QNZsVqIc
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2018, 07:30:36 PM
Because he is a clear sign of the End Time!  Obviously ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 09, 2018, 07:36:10 PM
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This is so hard to believe, how can all these people believe that Trump is the saviour of the planet?

Trump's presidency was NOT decided in heaven - unless heaven is in Moscow!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2018, 07:38:29 PM
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Trump's presidency was NOT decided in heaven - unless heaven is in Moscow!

End Time is when your money runs out.  No more subscription to Time.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 10, 2018, 06:25:47 PM
We may not hear about this from the MSM, so I'm glad Kyle is on top of it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GxFCA0x2s


The reason Trump was put in office by Putin is the goal of destroying America's economy - America first, the Europe.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 10, 2018, 07:28:53 PM
The giant timeline of everything Russia, Trump and the investigations (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/russia-timeline/)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2018, 01:01:58 AM
You are the inverse of pr126 ... that isn't a good thing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on August 11, 2018, 08:47:19 AM
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Anyone connected with NYC or New Jersey real estate is a mobster.  But then so are most of the people in Congress.  Cohen clearly is a "consiglieri" aka Jewish mafia lawyer.  Think the Star Trek classic episode where they went to Planet Chicago ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7eGdtvo85U

We are living this right now.

And this is in fact, the greatest live action "reality show" ... it is what the Don does ... capiche?
A friend from Chicago sent me an email yesterday noting that last weekend, Chicago had 72 shootings, and 12 left dead ranging in age from 11 to 66.  Having said that, A Piece of the Action might be my all time favorite episode of the original Star Trek.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2018, 12:11:19 PM
Gangsterism went down hill, when they got rid of the 1928 Packard touring car, and the Thompson sub-machinegun.  You have to know what kind of alien planet you are on, and learn to fit into native culture.  Illinois, to my knowledge, is still a pretty corrupt place at all levels of government.  A long history of bribes and official abuse/neglect.  Lincoln was the last honest man elected from there ;-(

And remember, in the 19th century, Americans E of the Mississippi admired the Wild Wild West.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on August 11, 2018, 02:17:31 PM
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And remember, in the 19th century, Americans E of the Mississippi admired the Wild Wild West.
When I was a kid, Abraham Lincoln, Davy Crocket, and the Civil War seemed like the olden days, but I was born 43 years after the 19th Century.  Didn't miss it by much.  Now at my age, the taming of the west on horseback that began before the invention of the repeating rifle doesn't strike me as that long ago.  What does impress me is how far we came with science and technology since the Gettysburg Address.  It makes you wonder just how much mankind had been fucking around for the first 100,000 years.  First some guy learned how to chip flint.  Thousands of years go by and then another guy invents the wheel.  Thousands more go by and someone comes up with the shovel.  And all of a sudden everything started happening at once and we are flying through space and blowing each other up with atomic bombs.  Great advancements in science, but none in politics.  We are still being governed by complete idiots.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 11, 2018, 02:28:10 PM
Religion is supposed to bring wisdom to mankind, but after all this time we still have very little of it. Science has done more to improve our condition in the last 300 years than religion did in the last 30,000 years. Our science has far outstripped our wisdom because there's none at all coming to us from religion. It's time we gave up the idea that religion can give us anything other than false hope, and start to think in terms of our place in the reality of a dangerous cosmos.

But we won't do that, we'd rather just keep bombing each other back to the stone age.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2018, 03:18:45 PM
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Religion is supposed to bring wisdom to mankind, but after all this time we still have very little of it. Science has done more to improve our condition in the last 300 years than religion did in the last 30,000 years. Our science has far outstripped our wisdom because there's none at all coming to us from religion. It's time we gave up the idea that religion can give us anything other than false hope, and start to think in terms of our place in the reality of a dangerous cosmos.

But we won't do that, we'd rather just keep bombing each other back to the stone age.

Greater technical ability at being a-moral.  More efficient raping, pillaging and murder.  Just ask Aleppo Syria.

Yeah, in the 1960s, the 1940s weren't that long ago, just the same as the 1990s are now.

Yes, iPhone made in China by wage slaves ... Enlightenment in action.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 11, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
Maybe this is something like what Trump has in mind fo0r his Space Force:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXeUkrlxQ98
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 11, 2018, 07:40:25 PM
The Trump administration is like sharks in a feeding frenzy, or a bunch of hens at a pecking party. We don't need to have "shark week" any more, it's going to be a permanent part of the U.S. government, apparently.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2018, 07:50:23 PM
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The Trump administration is like sharks in a feeding frenzy, or a bunch of hens at a pecking party. We don't need to have "shark week" any more, it's going to be a permanent part of the U.S. government, apparently.

Don't diss the lawyer class, sharks part in respect (part of old joke).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2018, 07:51:13 PM
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Maybe this is something like what Trump has in mind fo0r his Space Force:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXeUkrlxQ98

So his aerospace is already Baroque?  Can you launch your interceptors in one minuet?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2018, 03:43:18 AM
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Religion is supposed to bring wisdom to mankind, but after all this time we still have very little of it. Science has done more to improve our condition in the last 300 years than religion did in the last 30,000 years. Our science has far outstripped our wisdom because there's none at all coming to us from religion. It's time we gave up the idea that religion can give us anything other than false hope, and start to think in terms of our place in the reality of a dangerous cosmos.

But we won't do that, we'd rather just keep bombing each other back to the stone age.

Religion has never brought wisdom to humankind.  Rather, it is that humankind has learned what works and does not work to keep human societies functioning.  All that religion has ever done is steal the hard-won experience of humankind and write about it while adding some nonsense guys in the sky to explain what we had already learned.  And some idiotic religious rules about a special day of the week dedicated to giving money to them. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2018, 05:46:49 AM
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Religion has never brought wisdom to humankind.  Rather, it is that humankind has learned what works and does not work to keep human societies functioning.  All that religion has ever done is steal the hard-won experience of humankind and write about it while adding some nonsense guys in the sky to explain what we had already learned.  And some idiotic religious rules about a special day of the week dedicated to giving money to them.

And Druids already knew that the world was round.  Are you a Druid?

Humanity has no wisdom, history proves it again and again and ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on August 12, 2018, 07:26:47 AM
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Humanity has no wisdom, history proves it again and again and ...
Stunning generalization for such a huge and varied group.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2018, 08:24:01 AM
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Stunning generalization for such a huge and varied group.

Everyone thinks they are great ... but don't take their word for it ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 13, 2018, 12:13:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dDzblDP.jpg)

Well, he does love the poorly educated, and they love him right back.

I thought for sure that this must've been a photoshop or something.  So I went and found the tweet (https://twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1026577916128362497).  It's 100% real.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2018, 06:41:59 AM
Trump continued the job expansion that began under Obama, from about 2011.  The jobs created so far however, are not good jobs.  If we count 7 years of expansion, then that is 70+14 months or 84 months.  So not quite 90.  Of course Obama-god is responsible for the earlier poor expansion, just as Trump-god is responsible for the more recent poor expansion.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 13, 2018, 10:46:33 AM
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I wonder how long it will take for The Donald to say that his son, Junior,  was just a neighbor and he really never knew much about him...
About three seconds after he decides Junior is a liability.  Could happen sooner rather than later if he figures out Junior's calling him a liar.  I don't think he's smart enough to realize that.  He's perfectly capable of believing both his tweets and Junior's statements at the same time, even if they're mutually exclusive.

An alternate possibility reminds me of Roland Hedley's Return to Reagan's Brain in Doonesbury...
(http://assets.amuniversal.com/782a17209214012f2fe300163e41dd5b)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2018, 12:46:21 PM
I like Doonesbury too.  One of the few good things to crawl out of the 60s.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 13, 2018, 03:55:38 PM
Many people seem to think that Trump will go down soon, and he will, but only on Putin...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: orcus on August 13, 2018, 04:23:52 PM
Any time there's something that might harm Trump it turns out not to involve him in any way.

Manafort's team made a request that none of the stuff at trial discuss Trump, and Mueller's team agreed.

Flynn's in on some bullshit "lying to the FBI" charge and shows no signs of telling on Trump.

Michael Cohen's a scumbag, but Mueller isn't prosecuting him, indicating that Cohen has nothing on Trump.

None of the guys above seem to have had immunity, and none of them besides Flynn are the kinds of dudes who'd take a fall for Trump.

Nothing hard has come out, and anything that could have been hard proof has turned out to be nothing. Snowflakes get beat.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 13, 2018, 04:31:44 PM
It's not over yet, since the weight-challenged female has not yet begun to sing. They were after Clinton for years before they got around to Monica, and Clinton lied about it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: orcus on August 13, 2018, 04:36:46 PM
A nice Washington Examiner article. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-if-mueller-didnt-charge-flynn-and-manafort-with-collusion-then-who-was-colluding)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 13, 2018, 07:17:07 PM
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It's not over yet, since the weight-challenged female has not yet begun to sing. They were after Clinton for years before they got around to Monica, and Clinton lied about it.
Which lie I find preferable to selling out to a foreign power.  It's a little tragic to think that over the last 50 years in the GOP, you have to consider Nixon a *high* water mark.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 13, 2018, 07:23:50 PM
Yeah, we do live in interesting times, huh?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2018, 08:43:36 PM
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Which lie I find preferable to selling out to a foreign power.  It's a little tragic to think that over the last 50 years in the GOP, you have to consider Nixon a *high* water mark.

You already did.  How much schlock do you buy from China?  Not that there is anything wrong with that.  And most of you are old Viet Cong supporters.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2018, 08:44:07 PM
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Yeah, we do live in interesting times, huh?

That is a Chinese curse ... see my next comment, Round Eyes.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 17, 2018, 01:33:01 PM
Trump donors irked (http://theweek.com/speedreads/790832/trump-campaign-donors-are-getting-irritated-money-being-used-elongated-hush-payments) that some of their money is being used as "slush funds to pay fired or troublesome employees"

Well, there's a very simple solution to that problem...

Quote
"It's diverting donor money that could be used to wage the midterm election battle or store resources for Trump's re-election," said Dan Eberhart, Trump donor and America First adviser. "Instead, it's an elongated hush payment."
Diverting funds away from the election battle, sounds terrible.  An electoral loss would be awful...for Trump.  Not quite so bad for America, though.

Quote
At the same time, he said, "they still want to win elections," so wallets aren't necessarily closed.
Makes perfect sense.  I mean, what's the alternative?  Supporting someone who doesn't betray your trust and embarrass you daily?  That's crazy talk.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 17, 2018, 01:39:43 PM
GOP forbid Trump should use his own money to pay for hush. His hush fund is probably bigger than his legal fund. Maybe he should ask his boss Putin to pay some of it?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2018, 07:10:19 PM
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GOP forbid Trump should use his own money to pay for hush. His hush fund is probably bigger than his legal fund. Maybe he should ask his boss Putin to pay some of it?

With really rich people, they always use other people's money ... particularly tax payers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 17, 2018, 08:35:05 PM
"Would not concede despite all available evidence" - yep that's Trump, all right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grCHPh8R-YY
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on August 17, 2018, 08:50:48 PM
Trump really came unhinged today getting on Marine-1. I think Mueller is starting to get under his skin. It's starting to look like everyone but Trump is going to get in trouble. I dont know how that math works.

He should have already been kicked out for gross incompetence. I guess he's still a useful idiot to somebody. I wonder if he gets charged with a crime if Congress will still look the other way. The Constitution requires that a president committing a crime to be impeached. But obviously Congress doesnt care what it says. they screw it up all the time
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 18, 2018, 01:13:22 AM
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Trump really came unhinged today getting on Marine-1. I think Mueller is starting to get under his skin. It's starting to look like everyone but Trump is going to get in trouble. I dont know how that math works.

He should have already been kicked out for gross incompetence. I guess he's still a useful idiot to somebody. I wonder if he gets charged with a crime if Congress will still look the other way. The Constitution requires that a president committing a crime to be impeached. But obviously Congress doesnt care what it says. they screw it up all the time
If the GOP remains in control, they will.  They'd've already impeached any Democrat who'd done even a tenth the shit that the Orange Disaster Area has already done.

As a matter of practical politics, absent an indictable offense, I'm not entirely sure a Democratic House would impeach either.  In the first place, barring a blue tidal wave this fall, there's just no chance of getting 67 votes to convict in the Senate.  And as a purely political matter, they don't want to hand the keys of the White House over to Ayatollah Pence.

Granted, even if video surfaced of the Orange Disaster Area fucking a dead goat and using an American flag as a condom, the Republicans would find a way to keep making excuses for him, or at least clearing their throats and looking the other way.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 18, 2018, 01:25:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CeNfpcN.jpg)

Kaisch knows what's up.  (And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Trump doesn't like Kaisch (https://twitter.com/johnkasich/status/1019027296668340224?lang=en))

It's tempting to paint the Trumpster fire as a liberal VS conservative battle, but really this is a mutual threat.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 18, 2018, 02:12:06 AM
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Trump really came unhinged today getting on Marine-1. I think Mueller is starting to get under his skin. It's starting to look like everyone but Trump is going to get in trouble. I dont know how that math works.

He should have already been kicked out for gross incompetence. I guess he's still a useful idiot to somebody. I wonder if he gets charged with a crime if Congress will still look the other way. The Constitution requires that a president committing a crime to be impeached. But obviously Congress doesnt care what it says. they screw it up all the time

Second Investigative Counsel to be formed ... to investigate massive collusion and interference with election ... by Democrats, who are linked to Putin thru Obama-Kenyan administration.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 18, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
This is why Trump can't be a racist: with those bone spurs he could never run a race...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 19, 2018, 06:04:11 PM
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"Would not concede despite all available evidence" - yep that's Trump, all right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grCHPh8R-YY

All Trump had to do was go to youtube and watch the thing:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 20, 2018, 04:48:20 AM
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Kaisch knows what's up.  (And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Trump doesn't like Kaisch (https://twitter.com/johnkasich/status/1019027296668340224?lang=en))
Being an Ohioan, I know that John Kasich is no moderate (defunding Planned Parenthood, and tried the same union-busting shit that Walker did in Wisconsin, but we overturned it at the ballot box), but props where they're due.

I think he's pretty clearly positioning himself for 2020 as the Anti-Trump.  My wishful thinking scenario is Kasich getting the nomination, and the Orange Disaster Area running as an independent out of egotism, pique, spite, bull-headedness, whatever.  I'll make the popcorn.  :)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 20, 2018, 09:00:11 AM
Oh, Rudy.  According to Giuliani, "truth isn't truth (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838)".  Chuck Todd's reaction is... appropriate:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk-HotbUwAAJzOa.jpg)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2018, 09:34:08 AM
You expected honesty?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 20, 2018, 09:34:47 AM
I wonder when the TDS will burn itself out.
Pace it, folks, there are another 6 years to go. SMH.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2018, 09:37:19 AM
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I wonder when the TDS will burn itself out.
Pace it, folks, there are another 6 years to go. SMH.

Republicans need that long to recover from ODS.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 20, 2018, 09:43:01 AM
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Republicans need that long to recover from ODS.

What?! O was the best president America ever had. The ONE.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on August 20, 2018, 11:08:59 AM
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Oh, Rudy.  According to Giuliani, "truth isn't truth (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838)".  Chuck Todd's reaction is... appropriate:


The motto of the Trump administration. (the other, unstated one, is 'Look how fucking rich I've become!'
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2018, 12:17:32 PM
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The motto of the Trump administration. (the other, unstated one, is 'Look how fucking rich I've become!'

Good sans culottes  POV
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 20, 2018, 01:19:53 PM
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Oh, Rudy.  According to Giuliani, "truth isn't truth (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838)".  Chuck Todd's reaction is... appropriate:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk-HotbUwAAJzOa.jpg)
Leave it to Old Bug Eyes to muddy the swamp water...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 20, 2018, 01:20:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sum3KPb3y1Q
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 20, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sum3KPb3y1Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sum3KPb3y1Q)

(http://[url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk_ahEkW4AAlOE_.jpg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk_ahEkW4AAlOE_.jpg[/url])
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 20, 2018, 05:22:27 PM
John Oliver can be funny and informative at the same time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etkd57lPfPU
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 20, 2018, 05:46:15 PM
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Oh, Rudy.  According to Giuliani, "truth isn't truth (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838)".  Chuck Todd's reaction is... appropriate:
For now they're just muddying the water, I expect soon they'll be bloodying the water.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 21, 2018, 01:44:22 PM
So Lord Dampnut is afraid of picking up a perjury rap if he testifies under oath to the Mueller investigation (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45254374).

Psst, Donnie -- the simple fix to that is to quit lying.  I mean, if you change your story six times before finally admitting the truth of something, that's six lies right there.

Anyway, we're right back into Howard Baker territory again (remember when Republicans actually gave a fuck about good governance?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0sNwyV_fEM

If he's determined to not be put under oath, that only makes me wonder what it is he doesn't want to have to say on the record under penalty of perjury...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2018, 01:59:20 PM
He may not even know what the truth is after so many lies. Or maybe he's just not able to keep from lying under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2018, 02:04:15 PM
So, it isn't really Trump's Space Force, it comes from "defense" contractors:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QChrxtpe0SA


All that money will be great for the sacred shareholders.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jgk3HaaNxE
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 21, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
The Orange Disaster Area's ex-lawyer has made a plea deal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265546).  He is expected to plead guilty to tax fraud and campaign finance violations.  It is not yet known if this also means he's going to be coöperating with Mueller's probe, or the details of his plea deal.  It may be that he knew he was busted and pleaded out just to get it over with, or it may be that he's turned.

Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 21, 2018, 04:42:44 PM
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The Orange Disaster Area's ex-lawyer has made a plea deal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265546).  He is expected to plead guilty to tax fraud and campaign finance violations.  It is not yet known if this also means he's going to be coöperating with Mueller's probe, or the details of his plea deal.  It may be that he knew he was busted and pleaded out just to get it over with, or it may be that he's turned.

Stay tuned.

Here's to hoping the reduced sentencing was for him to squeal against Trump, which has been the goal all along.

Pleading guilty to campaign finance violations... but the Trump campaign also did absolutely nothing wrong and it's all a witch hunt. Mmhmm. Okay.


There certainly exists a Trump Derangement Syndrome, and it exists for the people who believe his crimes aren't that big of deal or, even worse, didn't happen. I wonder how long they can kick and pout about reality before it sinks in.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on August 21, 2018, 05:07:07 PM
Michael Cohen implicated Trump as a part of his criminal acts. The Constitution is clear. If the president is found guilty of a felony or a misdemeanor, Congress must impeach him. There is no choice for Congress what they will do. It requires that president to be impeached and removed from office.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 21, 2018, 06:30:10 PM
At best that means we go from a wannabe dictator to a wannabe theocract. I will be excited as the next guy when trumps farce comes to an end, but it doesn't look like things will significantly improve.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2018, 07:50:57 PM
Now it's time for pardons. Curious to see how that will play out. But will it come down to Trump's word vs Cohen's? It'd be nice to know just what evidence they actually have against Trump.

I hope I don't run out of popcorn...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2018, 08:31:20 PM
Good thing Trump has all the best people - I'd hate to see him with all the worst people!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 21, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
Speaking of working (and colluding) with the worst people, the judge threw out the defamation lawsuit against Christopher Steele (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/christopher-steeles-victory-in-a-dc-court/568057/), the author of the famous Trump–Russia dossier.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on August 21, 2018, 09:19:30 PM
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Good thing Trump has all the best people - I'd hate to see him with all the worst people!
yup instead of Trump screwing them they would be screwing him.

Pence is probably gloating about now.... thinking about it soon being his turn to screw the U.S.. After Trump being so crazy, it will probably take a little while for people to realize Pence is no angel.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2018, 09:32:12 PM
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Michael Cohen implicated Trump as a part of his criminal acts. The Constitution is clear. If the president is found guilty of a felony or a misdemeanor, Congress must impeach him. There is no choice for Congress what they will do. It requires that president to be impeached and removed from office.

Obama, George W, Clinton ... remember those criminals.  They have been shitting on your worthless Constitution for centuries now.

If you want to arrest criminals, put the Dems in FEMA camps (next to Republicans).

The 2016 election showed me, that most voters deserve the death penalty. (sarc)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2018, 09:33:01 PM
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Speaking of working (and colluding) with the worst people, the judge threw out the defamation lawsuit against Christopher Steele (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/christopher-steeles-victory-in-a-dc-court/568057/), the author of the famous Trump–Russia dossier.

First we kill all the lawyers ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on August 21, 2018, 10:09:13 PM
we dont need no FEMA camps. just put a fence around D.C. and call it the forbiden zone
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on August 21, 2018, 11:12:58 PM
Drumpf will never be impeached. His hold is too strong. Also the government is too corrupted and the Drumpf fan club is too stupid. The libertarians and others decide to wait it out for a new election that will never elect their third party candidates. Meanwhile the far left is still having a fit and their politicians are getting screwed by eachother. I woundn't be surprised if the party collapses on itself.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 22, 2018, 02:16:41 AM
Let's see... Manafort goes down in flames (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265676), and Cohen implicates his former boss in a federal crime (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265546)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZFTUtbn1RU

Fuck popcorn, that deserves a martini.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 22, 2018, 05:04:01 AM
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Let's see... Manafort goes down in flames (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265676), and Cohen implicates his former boss in a federal crime (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45265546)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZFTUtbn1RU

Fuck popcorn, that deserves a martini.

The Trump is probably clutching at bricks trying to stay afloat.  And we should all toss him a few in support...  I have a cinder block I'll be glad to offer.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 22, 2018, 12:47:10 PM
(https://i.redditmedia.com/f9iRY7EOZu-_9f48hMxmsjRo-I-tRy6M3MD6uP8V3yk.png?fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&arh=2&w=640&s=0b948ee5cd84d912fa83bb06b947a94a)

My favorites are the second and fourth ones.

#2 - "Sure, he plead guilty to arson and murder, but they didn't convict on the jaywalking charge!  WITCH HUNT!"

#4 - Remember when Trump said that he'd surround himself with "the best people"? LOL

*edit - for #1 I think he got a little confused on what constitutes a crime.  Senior moment.  It happens.  And the second sentence is a classic Trump whataboutism that you're just supposed to listen and believe.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 01:24:07 PM
The trouble with all this is that the more desperate Trump gets the more dangerous he'll be. What he'll do is anybody's guess, but it won't be good for America.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 02:05:54 PM
Because you're not likely to see this anywhere else, I want to post it here, just so y'all will know about it:

Quote
The Trump administration unveiled their new environmental plans this week that would significantly roll back clean air protections that were put in place by President Obama. The EPA admits in their own assessments that their new plans will result in roughly 1,400 American deaths per year, but they seem fine with that if it helps the fossil fuel industry make a few more dollars each year.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpUX1FyAq0A
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 22, 2018, 02:50:17 PM
Yeah, these kind of life-and-death decisions are the things that should really doom this administration.  Instead we're talking about Stormy Daniels and some pee-pee tape.  :(

Also, whenever I hit the environmentalism gong, I always have to deal with blithering idiots who seem to think that making money and curbing pollution are mutually exclusive (asbestos - the perfect building material for the discerning real estate mogul) or envision the environment as if it were some sort of far-away, ultra-resistant thing that can take care of itself so we need not concern ourselves with it.

I've gotten really tired of having to basically say this:

(https://pics.me.me/why-would-you-want-to-save-the-environment-because-im-13690278.png)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 03:21:46 PM
Richard Nixon said "I am not a crook" - but he was a lying crook.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 22, 2018, 03:34:55 PM
Why Trump Supporters Believe He Is Not Corrupt

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/what-trumps-supporters-think-of-corruption/568147/

... Trump’s supporters say they care about corruption. During the campaign, they cheered his vow to “drain the swamp” in Washington, D.C. When Morning Consult asked Americans in May 2016 to explain why they disliked Hillary Clinton, the second most common answer was that she was “corrupt.” And yet, Trump supporters appear largely unfazed by the mounting evidence that Trump is the least ethical president in modern American history. When asked last month whether they considered Trump corrupt, only 14 percent of Republicans said yes. Even Cohen’s allegation is unlikely to change that.

The answer may lie in how Trump and his supporters define corruption. In a forthcoming book titled How Fascism Works, the Yale philosophy professor Jason Stanley makes an intriguing claim. “Corruption, to the fascist politician,” he suggests, “is really about the corruption of purity rather than of the law. Officially, the fascist politician’s denunciations of corruption sound like a denunciation of political corruption. But such talk is intended to evoke corruption in the sense of the usurpation of the traditional order.”

Fox’s decision to focus on the Iowa murder rather than Cohen’s guilty plea illustrates Stanley’s point. In the eyes of many Fox viewers, I suspect, the network isn’t ignoring corruption so much as highlighting the kind that really matters. When Trump instructed Cohen to pay off women with whom he’d had affairs, he may have been violating the law. But he was upholding traditional gender and class hierarchies. Since time immemorial, powerful men have been cheating on their wives and using their power to evade the consequences.

The Iowa murder, by contrast, signifies the inversion—the corruption—of that “traditional order.” Throughout American history, few notions have been as sacrosanct as the belief that white women must be protected from nonwhite men. By allegedly murdering Tibbetts, Rivera did not merely violate the law. He did something more subversive: He violated America’s traditional racial and sexual norms.

Once you grasp that for Trump and many of his supporters, corruption means less the violation of law than the violation of established hierarchies, their behavior makes more sense. ...


Trump supporters don't mind that he lies and is corrupt because they consider him to be working in their best interests, doing bad deeds in pursuit of a greater good. "He may be a thug but he's our thug." I think the only way his supporters will turn against him is if he overtly betrays their values, such as advocating the use of federal funds to make abortion free and legal.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
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Because you're not likely to see this anywhere else, I want to post it here, just so y'all will know about it:





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpUX1FyAq0A

Less dead than from Obama's foreign policy!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2018, 05:06:48 PM
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Richard Nixon said "I am not a crook" - but he was a lying crook.

Our only honest politician?

Of course he is corrupt.  People don't call it that if the corruption works in their favor though.  Obama's corruption hurt me.  He can burn in Hell.  What Trump did in NYC real estate, 10 years ago, didn't.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Great, now Trump wants to have his own private army! Yeah, that's just what America and the world needs.


Quote
President Donald Trump is increasingly venting frustration to his national security team about the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan and showing renewed interest in a proposal by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to privatize the war, current and former senior administration officials said.

Prince's idea, which first surfaced last year during the president's Afghanistan strategy review, envisions replacing troops with private military contractors who would work for a special U.S. envoy for the war who would report directly to the president...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGWwLZH77II


When war is profitable, war is perpetual.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 07:00:57 PM
Russians are falling from the sky the same way gringos were falling from the sky in The 3 Amigos:     



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCJMjLRe15k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C61Yba072lA

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2018, 07:10:56 PM
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Great, now Trump wants to have his own private army! Yeah, that's just what America and the world needs.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGWwLZH77II


When war is profitable, war is perpetual.

Never heard of Blackwater ... which became Hillary's private army when she was Sec of State?

British History's Biggest Fibs With Lucy Worsley Episode 1; The Wars Of The Roses  ... on Youtube ...

Will Trump be the next King Richard III, to be lied about for the next 500 years?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on August 22, 2018, 10:15:40 PM
It's time for the republicans to dust off that playbook.

Impeach Clinton for lying about an affair, but ignore the lying about an affair that affected an election.

Surely they will stand up and support their principles. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 23, 2018, 12:10:31 AM
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Because you're not likely to see this anywhere else, I want to post it here, just so y'all will know about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpUX1FyAq0A

THAT the Republicans' dirty little secret.  While Trump is keeping the public's eyes on his nonsense, his administration is busy doing outrageous things to profit business at the expense of the environment, research, and public interest.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 23, 2018, 12:29:46 AM
 The seven stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/08/the_seven_stages_of_trump_derangement_syndrome.html)

Quote
Donald Trump's election in 2016 upset the Washington, D.C. apple cart – bigly!  Not only were his detractors, critics, and opponents adversely triggered by the stunning defeat of Hillary Clinton, but they continue to wallow miserably in the Seven Stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome.  And unlike the seven stages of grief, the ill effected show no signs of recovery or acceptance.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on August 23, 2018, 12:43:35 AM
There are no 'stages' involved in TDS.

It is a single step. 

One needs to clear the initial hurdle... it's all hyperbole after that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2018, 05:54:32 AM
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It's time for the republicans to dust off that playbook.

Impeach Clinton for lying about an affair, but ignore the lying about an affair that affected an election.

Surely they will stand up and support their principles.

I would have been happy if the Republicans had made the Clintons disappear.  But they are too useful, as double agents.

Just like Republicans, Democrats have no principles .. other than winning by any means possible.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2018, 05:56:10 AM
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The seven stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/08/the_seven_stages_of_trump_derangement_syndrome.html)

These Demotards post videos ... just like you do.  Then complain about you.  Yes, Obama was an alien Muslim from Planet Bro.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 23, 2018, 09:40:42 AM
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It's time for the republicans to dust off that playbook.

Impeach Clinton for lying about an affair, but ignore the lying about an affair that affected an election.

Surely they will stand up and support their principles.
They really don't care (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45274175).  It's all about the hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2018, 09:43:59 AM
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They really don't care (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45274175).  It's all about the hypocrisy.

You are intolerant of hypocrisy?  That is dissing a protected D party voting group.  You must turn in your SJW membership card now!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2018, 09:46:08 AM
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The seven stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/08/the_seven_stages_of_trump_derangement_syndrome.html)



It's like arguing with a fundamentalist Christian. Even when reality is proving them explicitly wrong, they will just repeat over and over how right they are and passive-aggressively insist that it's everyone else who is delusional.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2018, 09:50:27 AM
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It's like arguing with a fundamentalist Christian. Even when reality is proving them explicitly wrong, they will just repeat over and over how right they are and passive-aggressively insist that it's everyone else who is delusional.

Says the true believer in the Obama god and the Hillary god ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 23, 2018, 01:20:59 PM
Latest from the Bloviating Orange: Impeach me and everyone's going to be poor (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45285585).  Oh, and even though Cohen's a dirty liar, what he pled guilty to isn't even really a crime.  The Orange Disaster Area knows this because he watches TV.  And without him and his brain in charge, the economy will completely fall apart.

The hell with impeachment, I'm thinking Amendment 25 Section 4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_4:_Vice_Presidential%E2%80%93Cabinet_declaration) again...

Oh, and regarding impeachment?  Pretty much it's just Republicans talking about it (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republicans-are-talking-about-impeachment-way-more-than-democrats/), usually to lie about Democrats planning to impeach the instant they have a majority.  Meanwhile, Pelosi took impeachment off the table (again) (https://www.apnews.com/84e70fc19bc14b0a90526e9473c502d1/The-Latest:-Pelosi-says-impeachment-'not-a-priority), and the only Democrat running for Congress on an explicitly impeachment based platform lost their primary.

Methinks the GOP doth protest too much.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 23, 2018, 01:38:18 PM
Well, the economy will crash with or without Trump, but I think it's his (Putin's) objective to make it crash such that it will never be a viable economy again.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: fencerider on August 23, 2018, 02:13:32 PM
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The hell with impeachment, I'm thinking Amendment 25 Section 4

Methinks the GOP doth protest too much.
 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_4:_Vice_Presidential%E2%80%93Cabinet_declaration)

Do you think Trump actually thought about the 25th amendment enough to keep firing his cabinet to prevent them from voting him out? ... probably not.


I guess orange disaster will follow Agent Orange everywhere he goes except to the stomping grounds of is base
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 23, 2018, 05:03:05 PM
Now Trump's secretary of education wants to spend taxpayer money to supply guns to schools!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9jzbu95gHk



What a horrible bunch of goons we've got running our country.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 23, 2018, 10:07:58 PM
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Do you think Trump actually thought about the 25th amendment enough to keep firing his cabinet to prevent them from voting him out? ... probably not.

I guess orange disaster will follow Agent Orange everywhere he goes except to the stomping grounds of is base

I think he stopped reading amendments at Two.

Although I bet he's gonna get real familiar with Five if he has a smart lawyer.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2018, 10:59:28 PM
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Well, the economy will crash with or without Trump, but I think it's his (Putin's) objective to make it crash such that it will never be a viable economy again.

Good.  Then the Mexicans can make tacos out of all of you.  Aztecs are proven to have done ritual cannibalism.

DeVos is the sister of Prince (Blackwater) right?  The head of the private army the DNC loves.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 24, 2018, 02:37:52 AM
How much better would America be if Hillary was in the White House as president.
One can dream...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 24, 2018, 03:21:53 AM
Does being so hateful get as boring to be as it is to read?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2018, 03:38:10 AM
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Does being so hateful get as boring to be as it is to read?

Don't be a hater, love Hitler (video burlesques).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 24, 2018, 11:10:19 AM
(https://i.redd.it/nm0a8mhph0i11.jpg)

You can almost smell the fear and desperation.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2018, 01:23:16 PM
Yeah, smells like bacon...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2018, 05:30:22 PM



Yeah, we really need a traitorous president to have his own private army:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Xr77ajOO4


Those rare earth elements are exactly the reason for the war in Afghanistan. If you thought it had something to do with 9/11 or bin Laden, you've been sold a bill of goods - and you bought it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2018, 06:47:08 PM
All the oil in Iraq, going to China, all the minerals in Afghanistan, going to China.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2018, 07:12:55 PM
Maybe Trump will soon have a meltdown, like the Wicked Witch of the West!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2018, 11:03:08 PM
Atheists are sociopaths like Goldilocks, or like the witch in the Gingerbread House?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2018, 01:48:43 PM
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I think he stopped reading amendments at Two.

Although I bet he's gonna get real familiar with Five if he has a smart lawyer.
I think all the skeletons are about to come out of the closet...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on August 25, 2018, 05:53:11 PM
The president of the United States fucked up while coloring the flag for children.

I don't know if that is ground for impeachment, but it's stupid enough to warrant at least thinking about it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
Well, he's a sort of peachy color, so maybe he's already been impeached in the abstract, and all we have to do is make it real.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2018, 11:26:23 PM
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Well, he's a sort of peachy color, so maybe he's already been impeached in the abstract, and all we have to do is make it real.

Michael Cohen's lawyer is Lanny Davis, a long time friend of Hillary Clinton.  He was forced by the Papal Nuncio to retract some of his loud public claims he has made recently.  He had to do two Hail Hillaries and donate $100 into the plate.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 01:45:14 AM
The Republicans were SO OUTRAGED by Bill Clinton getting a blow-job from a willing intern that they impeached him.

But the Republicans don't care that:

Trump admitted on tape that he sexually assaulted many women
Invaded dressing rooms at beauty pageants routinely
Engaged in racial housing discrimination
Has Mafia ties
Created a totally false university
Deliberately damaged apartments to drive tenants away
Declared bankruptcy 4 times are strictly a profit tactic
Hired undocumented workers to demolish a building, underpaid the workers, and didn't provide protective wear
Committed "marriage rape"
Broke New Jersey casino rules (and that takes some effort)
Violated anti-trust regulations
Falsified condo agreements and expectations
Routinely fails to pay workers and contractors (daring them to sue him)
Bought his own books to improve selling statistics
Hired undocumented women as models
Did business with Cuba when it was illegal
Lies about charity gifts

And that doesn't bother the Republicans...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 27, 2018, 02:42:54 AM
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The Republicans were SO OUTRAGED by Bill Clinton getting a blow-job from a willing intern that they impeached him.
The Republicans are outraged about EVERYTHING done by anyone not a Republican.  Doesn't even matter if it's not even illegal or unethical.  I'm still waiting for the hearings on Condie Rice's and Colin Powell's private email servers.

The only actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the blind, slavering, deranged worship Trumpies have for the Orange Disaster Area.  I mean, I'm a die-hard Democrat, but I'm perfectly willing and capable of discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the Clinton and Obama presidencies -- or Carter or Johnson or Kennedy or Truman or Roosevelt or however far back you care to go.

You can't get a Republican to ever admit the possibility that any Republican president ever did anything wrong, or that any Democratic president ever did anything right.  Half the time, you can't even get them to admit to things that Republicans actually did, no matter how much documentary evidence there is.

Personally, I refuse to engage with the delusional.  As soon as a conversation starts with "Socialist cucks..." or the like, fuck 'em.  That's not someone who wants to, or can, have an actual exchange of ideas.  Their brains are set in concrete.

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And that doesn't bother the Republicans...
Nope, not in the least.  Hypocrisy is the hallmark of the modern Republican.  I can remember when one could still have a meaningful conversation with one.  It really hasn't been possible for the most part since 1994 and the rise of Newt Gingrich and scorched-earth politicking.  Evil Twin and I quit talking politics around 2000 (for the record, he was a McCain supporter, and it took me five years to get off McCain's mailing list because I bought him a campaign T-shirt as a birthday present) because we valued our friendship more than our politics.  The only time we really talk politics anymore is when we *both* are bitching about Libertarians.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 03:15:07 AM
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The Republicans are outraged about EVERYTHING done by anyone not a Republican.  Doesn't even matter if it's not even illegal or unethical.  I'm still waiting for the hearings on Condie Rice's and Colin Powell's private email servers.

The only actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the blind, slavering, deranged worship Trumpies have for the Orange Disaster Area.  I mean, I'm a die-hard Democrat, but I'm perfectly willing and capable of discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the Clinton and Obama presidencies -- or Carter or Johnson or Kennedy or Truman or Roosevelt or however far back you care to go.

You can't get a Republican to ever admit the possibility that any Republican president ever did anything wrong, or that any Democratic president ever did anything right.  Half the time, you can't even get them to admit to things that Republicans actually did, no matter how much documentary evidence there is.

Personally, I refuse to engage with the delusional.  As soon as a conversation starts with "Socialist cucks..." or the like, fuck 'em.  That's not someone who wants to, or can, have an actual exchange of ideas.  Their brains are set in concrete.
Nope, not in the least.  Hypocrisy is the hallmark of the modern Republican.  I can remember when one could still have a meaningful conversation with one.  It really hasn't been possible for the most part since 1994 and the rise of Newt Gingrich and scorched-earth politicking.  Evil Twin and I quit talking politics around 2000 (for the record, he was a McCain supporter, and it took me five years to get off McCain's mailing list because I bought him a campaign T-shirt as a birthday present) because we valued our friendship more than our politics.  The only time we really talk politics anymore is when we *both* are bitching about Libertarians.

LIKE, LIKE, LIKE...

I think what most differentiates Democrats from Republicans is that Democrats don't support Democrat politicians who turn out to be scumbags and Republicans support their scumbags to the death. 

And I am not surprised by that.  I once had a carpool member who thought sports penalties were just a calculation of the game.  That there was nothing wrong with breaking all the rules if the benefit was greater than the penalty.  He considered rules just to be "things to be manipulated".

That is not a way that I can think.  But Republicans, by evidence, do.  It is both baffling and a cause for alarm and anger.

The scariest things in US populations to me are the people who support Trump in spite of all the values they profess to believe and yet easily ignore for this one person.  Look at the Swift-Boat campaign against Kerry and attacks on Max Cleveland, yet support for  Bush and Trump who evaded the draft as "warriors".  Look at how they won't even acknowledge people like McCain as brave and heroic.

The hypocrisy sickens me.  They are living in a world of not rational thought and happy in it. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2018, 07:36:09 AM
Sorry, but people are psychopathic ... this shows up particularly in their political expression.  Just like "Sneeches" with or without stars.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 27, 2018, 04:51:48 PM
I can't decide if this one is funny or scary - maybe some of both:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hpyC1Zcl4Y&t=218s
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
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I can't decide if this one is funny or scary - maybe some of both:

Actually, fundamentalists speak in tongues even when they don't think they are...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2018, 07:53:12 PM
Fundamentalists, Pentacostals, Charismatics ... are all separate movements, mostly within Protestantism.  But expect ignorance from atheists.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 28, 2018, 01:02:58 AM
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Actually, fundamentalists speak in tongues even when they don't think they are...
I well recall the one time I got talked into going to an evangelical service.  I don't remember how I got talked into it, or why I said yes, but when they started speaking in tongues, I clearly remember thinking, "These people are fucking insane."  Glossolalia is fucking useless if it's not a real, in-use language.  Otherwise it's just "Lama lambacthala lamasala rama rama khlamachta..." and that's not a fucking language.  That's gibberish.  Speaking in tongues means using languages speakers of that language can understand, not blathering random syllables that the pastor can then claim means anything he wants them to mean.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 28, 2018, 01:20:56 AM
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"Lama lambacthala lamasala rama rama khlamachta..."
By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth!  A prophecy!

*dons weird hat and sacred undies*

I shall translate this prophecy with my ancient mayan runestones!  ($5.99 each at Walmart)
Now to google translate it from mayan to aramaic to british english to actual english.

It says..."9 times 9 the sacred serpent will rise the indecipherable"

Clearly, it's talking about the Draco constellation (or the Athenian legislator of the same name) and a leader of 9 territories instituting a new world order.  Huzzah!  Or maybe sacred means unholy and 9 times 9 refers to the year in which an unholy leader will reign.  Or the number of years of his/her reign.  Or maybe September 9th.  And indecipherable obviously means incredible/awe-inspiring.  Duh.

Oh my IPU, is this really how religions get started?  Nah, I'm probably doing something wrong.  Ooh, better take a past historical event and then form-fit it to this prophecy.  Can't be proven wrong when you never stick your neck out at all.  Unfalsifiable is just a fancy way of saying incontestable.

Boom.  Proof of divine presence right there.  Take that, atheists!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2018, 05:50:03 AM
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I well recall the one time I got talked into going to an evangelical service.  I don't remember how I got talked into it, or why I said yes, but when they started speaking in tongues, I clearly remember thinking, "These people are fucking insane."  Glossolalia is fucking useless if it's not a real, in-use language.  Otherwise it's just "Lama lambacthala lamasala rama rama khlamachta..." and that's not a fucking language.  That's gibberish.  Speaking in tongues means using languages speakers of that language can understand, not blathering random syllables that the pastor can then claim means anything he wants them to mean.

The Didache, from like the 1st century CE, says that if someone will speak in tongues .. then keep your mouth shut unless there is someone there to interpret.  Old old problem.

Using scripture as a rune ... was practiced by rabbis in the 2nd century CE.  All prophecy is after the fact, not before.  Rubes will be rubes.  The other folks were examining sheep entrails.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 28, 2018, 01:22:19 PM
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Actually, fundamentalists speak in tongues even when they don't think they are...
Ever heard of bibliomancy? That's when you open your Bible at "random" and put your finger on a "random" verse, and that's God speaking directly to you. I've known people who actually do this, and believe it!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2018, 03:48:44 PM
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Ever heard of bibliomancy? That's when you open your Bible at "random" and put your finger on a "random" verse, and that's God speaking directly to you. I've know people who actually do this, and believe it!

That is what the rabbis did, except it wasn't a book, it was a scroll ... and there was no chapters, verses or punctuation.

You can also treat hebrew letters as numbers (the Greeks did the same).  From that you do gematria.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 28, 2018, 05:39:27 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-abe-pearl-harbor-remember-ripped-trade-1093230

Dammit, Trump.  I was trying to just chill out a bit and make fun of fundies, but he's just gotta make a fool of himself to stay in the headlines.  *sigh*

This is like some sh*t that some racist dotard would say, not some fit, young...he's how old?  72.  Damn.  Well, that explains that.  I guess he really is a racist old fogey.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2018, 08:47:10 PM
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https://www.newsweek.com/trump-abe-pearl-harbor-remember-ripped-trade-1093230

Dammit, Trump.  I was trying to just chill out a bit and make fun of fundies, but he's just gotta make a fool of himself to stay in the headlines.  *sigh*

This is like some sh*t that some racist dotard would say, not some fit, young...he's how old?  72.  Damn.  Well, that explains that.  I guess he really is a racist old fogey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No

"Not this good will you look when you are 900 years old" - Yoda
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on August 28, 2018, 11:29:30 PM
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https://www.newsweek.com/trump-abe-pearl-harbor-remember-ripped-trade-1093230

Dammit, Trump.  I was trying to just chill out a bit and make fun of fundies, but he's just gotta make a fool of himself to stay in the headlines.  *sigh*

This is like some sh*t that some racist dotard would say, not some fit, young...he's how old?  72.  Damn.  Well, that explains that.  I guess he really is a racist old fogey.
Also... no, he fucking well doesn't remember Pearl Harbor.  His birthday is June 14, 1946.  Pearl Harbor was attacked December 7, 1941.  He doesn't remember any part of World War II.

That's like me saying I remember the launch of Sputnik.  Hint: I was born in 1963.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2018, 12:45:48 AM
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Also... no, he fucking well doesn't remember Pearl Harbor.  His birthday is June 14, 1946.  Pearl Harbor was attacked December 7, 1941.  He doesn't remember any part of World War II.

That's like me saying I remember the launch of Sputnik.  Hint: I was born in 1963.

Yeah, Astronaut Shepherd going up on the Redstone, then Astronaut Glenn going up on the Atlas.  Don't remember Grissom though, in between.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on August 29, 2018, 12:05:12 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/reports-trump-warned-evangelical-leaders-of-violence-from-democrats-if-republicans-lose-the-midterms/2018/08/28/4f397bb6-ab0a-11e8-8a0c-70b618c98d3c_story.html?utm_term=.81f95029c236

Quote
At Monday’s dinner with the Christian leaders, Trump described the November election in dire terms.

“You’re one election away from losing everything that you’ve got,” he said, according to NBC News.
Yes, that would be very, very unfortunate.  Thoughts and prayers.  Thoughts and prayers.

Quote
Trump also erroneously claimed Monday that he had done away with the Johnson Amendment, which he described to the evangelical leaders as a “disaster for you,” according to the NBC report.

The provision bars religious institutions and other tax-exempt organizations from endorsing political candidates.
Prelude to an attack on secularism?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2018, 01:03:51 PM
Y'all love "signing statements" with Obama does them ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment

Not sure what if anything Trump's nuance on this law has any practical effect.  But rest assured, the Republicans will be shortly rounding up Gays and Democrats for Final Solution, right?

The SCOTUS already eroded some secularism while Obama was still in office.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 29, 2018, 01:21:43 PM
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Thoughts and prayers.  Thoughts and prayers.

My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who believes thoughts and prayers do anyone any good at all.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on August 29, 2018, 01:37:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY4c2AZxV0k
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
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My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who believes thoughts and prayers do anyone any good at all.

How about ... hold your breath until you turn blue (state)?

Maxine is the genius fo the D-party ;-))
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 30, 2018, 02:01:14 PM

The bad guys always have an advantage over the good guys, because they don't mind breaking rules (or laws) in order to win - and the GOP must win at any cost.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWM2wOAwhdo&t=334s
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on August 30, 2018, 06:52:36 PM
Quote
"President Trump warned evangelical leaders Monday night that Democrats “will overturn everything that we’ve done and they’ll do it quickly and violently” if Republicans lose control of Congress in the midterm elections.

Speaking to the group in the State Dining Room of the White House, Mr. Trump painted a stark picture of what losing the majority would mean for the administration’s conservative agenda, according to an audiotape of his remarks provided to The New York Times by someone who attended the event.

“They will end everything immediately,” Mr. Trump said. “When you look at antifa,” he added, a term that describes militant leftist groups, “and you look at some of these groups, these are violent people.”

A White House spokesman, Hogan Gidley, declined to elaborate on what the president meant."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzsbWUsCayA
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on August 30, 2018, 07:26:46 PM
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The bad guys always have an advantage over the good guys, because they don't mind breaking rules (or laws) in order to win - and the GOP must win at any cost.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWM2wOAwhdo&t=334s

Democrats don't break rules?  Bwahaha.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 01, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
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Ever heard of bibliomancy? That's when you open your Bible at "random" and put your finger on a "random" verse, and that's God speaking directly to you. I've known people who actually do this, and believe it!

Sounds like a Ouiji Board.  I played people with that.  A little peeking and you can get the moving thing anywhere you want.  In fact, with practice, unpeeking memory can get the guide anywhere you want.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 02, 2018, 12:52:14 AM
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Sounds like a Ouiji Board.  I played people with that.  A little peeking and you can get the moving thing anywhere you want.  In fact, with practice, unpeeking memory can get the guide anywhere you want.

Ah, but that is cheating.  You will come back as a que ball on a billiard table ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on September 04, 2018, 01:22:44 PM
I think that politics has replaced religion.

The same animosity and hatred between Democrats and Republicans that was between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until they come to their senses.








 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
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I think that politics has replaced religion.

The same animosity and hatred between Democrats and Republicans that was between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until they come to their senses.

Don't hold your breath .. R and D are senseless.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 04, 2018, 01:39:56 PM
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I think that politics has replaced religion.

The same animosity and hatred between Democrats and Republicans that was between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until they come to their senses.








 

And just like in that situation, one side is actually pretty objectively in the right and one is pretty objectively in the wrong.


Also, if you think religion isn't a big part of America's hatred... well, once again you really need to learn more about American culture.

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on September 04, 2018, 07:01:14 PM
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I think that politics has replaced religion.

The same animosity and hatred between Democrats and Republicans that was between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until they come to their senses.
Advice from someone free of animosity?  Or just as angry and for much, much stupider reasons?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2018, 07:38:21 PM
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And just like in that situation, one side is actually pretty objectively in the right and one is pretty objectively in the wrong.


Also, if you think religion isn't a big part of America's hatred... well, once again you really need to learn more about American culture.

Exactly ... the Catholics should burn all the Protestants at the stake ;-)

Americans are very religious, and ideological.  Even without religion, we would kill over ideology.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 05, 2018, 04:39:55 PM
Quote
Shortly after his first congressional campaign in 1988, radio station WRCR-FM in Rushville, Indiana hired Pence to host a weekly half-hour radio show, Washington Update with Mike Pence. In 1992, Pence began hosting a daily talk show on WRCR, The Mike Pence Show, in addition to a Saturday show on WNDE in Indianapolis.




Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...the next president of the United States of America!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKO_IhgKKpQ


I'm sure Pence has been chomping at the bit just waiting for his chance to become the most powerful man in the world - and turn America into a Dominionist Christian theocracy.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 05, 2018, 07:02:54 PM
Here's our Fearless Leader, meeting with sheriffs, getting from them a plaque:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuOkhbqbUs8


Jeez, it's getting hard to listen to this traitor!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 05, 2018, 07:28:59 PM
Hopefully you will get theocrat Pence.  And he will burn all the atheists (I don't want that).  Beware of what you ask for.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 06, 2018, 11:03:54 AM
Well, it ought to be an interesting day in the White House today (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html)...

I am less disturbed by White House staffers taking it upon themselves to prevent an unstable President from issuing dangerous orders — Kissinger and Schlesinger did the same towards the end of the Nixon Administration, ordering the military command to verify with them any nuclear launch order, and when Nixon boarded the helicopter to take him away from the White House, the nuclear football did not go with him even though he would still be president for another two hours.

What I do find disturbing is their willingness to allow all the damage that the Orange Disaster Area is doing domestically and internationally, because he gives them cover to pursue their political goals, particularly the ones they know are unpopular and unwanted.  I don’t care if they’ve prevented some of the damage: they’re still willing to let this unstable narcissist be (nominally) in control because they can get all their right wing madness implemented while everyone’s watching the lunatic rant.

That’s cowardly and dishonest.  They know the man they’re trying to “contain” is a danger to the country, and rather than take the legal route — Section 4 of the 25th Amendment — they’re content to let the White House be a clown car rather than a limousine.  Because their political and policy goals are more important to them than the well-being of the nation.  The writer is no unsung hero, secretly protecting the nation from an out-of-control president.  The writer is an anonymous coward, using the sideshow as a cover.

I find the timing interesting: no one's talking about Kavanaugh now, giving Senate Republicans an additional chance to shove through the nomination without anyone looking too closely.

The Orange Disaster Area, meanwhile, is throwing a screaming purple fit, calling it treason and demanding the Times hand over the name of the writer (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/us/politics/trump-new-york-times-anonymous-editorial.html).
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on September 06, 2018, 11:24:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mh9KxdSzg&t=318s
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 06, 2018, 12:44:34 PM
TDSS strikes again.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 06, 2018, 01:01:04 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mh9KxdSzg&t=318s

Coup de etat is all American.  That is what the Constitutional convention under Washington and Franklin were doing ... ask Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson.

Mike Pence wants to be President badly, same as LBJ.  Same as George H W Bush (see Reagan shooting).  Or it could be a setup of Pence.

Democrats so desperate, they are even willing to support a R-person assassinating a R-President.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 06, 2018, 01:36:41 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mh9KxdSzg&t=318s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Mh9KxdSzg&t=318s)

"Totally anonymous, hur hur funny how that works..."

Yes, tell me more about how you would publish an article about how your boss is a lunatic under your own name. It's kinda like those damn whistleblowers, always wanting to protect the anonymity and stuff to avoid retribution! What a bunch of cucks!


You keep on sharing this guy, and I have to admit I have only watched a few clips, but he doesn't seem to be the brightest tool in the rocket science.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 06, 2018, 03:16:46 PM
I'm looking forward to Trump's meltdown over this. I wonder just how desperate he's becoming. His tweets should be fun to read for a change!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 06, 2018, 06:53:01 PM
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I'm looking forward to Trump's meltdown over this. I wonder just how desperate he's becoming. His tweets should be fun to read for a change!

Without Trump you might not have any entertainment at all.  Grousing is what the grouses here do best ;-)

Anonymous accusations ... just like a show trial in the old Soviet Union .. who would have thunk it?

A great many accusations actually come without anonymity ... maybe they are just stupid ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on September 06, 2018, 09:03:24 PM
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You keep on sharing this guy, and I have to admit I have only watched a few clips, but he doesn't seem to be the brightest tool in the rocket science.
PR probably doubles this guy's views.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 06, 2018, 09:06:09 PM
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I'm looking forward to Trump's meltdown over this. I wonder just how desperate he's becoming. His tweets should be fun to read for a change!

Nothing interesting yet :(.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 07, 2018, 09:09:39 AM
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Nothing interesting yet :(.
Oh, I don't know.  As far as I can recall, this is the first time he's explicitly referred to reporting and opinion as "TREASON? (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037464177269514240)" rather than railing about "fake news", "lying reports" and other Trumpisms for "You bastard, how did you find that out?"

Now, treason is a crime defined in the Constitution and not a word to be thrown about lightly, since it is also a capital crime.  So I think it does represent a raising of the stakes in his ongoing war with the media.  And his most committed followers are listening (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45361667).  I fear it’s only a matter of time — and not very much time — before there’s real violence by his wanna-be brownshirts.  I fear there will be a shooting or bombing at a polling place this November, or a Democratic campaign rally this fall, or an attack on a newspaper or television station.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on September 07, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
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I'm looking forward to Trump's meltdown over this. I wonder just how desperate he's becoming. His tweets should be fun to read for a change!
Remember when we used to look to the Presidency for leadership?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 07, 2018, 12:57:10 PM
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Remember when we used to look to the Presidency for leadership?

JFK was a demi-god, when I was little.  Then the CIA/FBI killed him.  Damn atheists ;-)

Sorry, I have seen no leadership since JFK.  Wonder why?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 07, 2018, 12:58:06 PM
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Oh, I don't know.  As far as I can recall, this is the first time he's explicitly referred to reporting and opinion as "TREASON? (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037464177269514240)" rather than railing about "fake news", "lying reports" and other Trumpisms for "You bastard, how did you find that out?"

Now, treason is a crime defined in the Constitution and not a word to be thrown about lightly, since it is also a capital crime.  So I think it does represent a raising of the stakes in his ongoing war with the media.  And his most committed followers are listening (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45361667).  I fear it’s only a matter of time — and not very much time — before there’s real violence by his wanna-be brownshirts.  I fear there will be a shooting or bombing at a polling place this November, or a Democratic campaign rally this fall, or an attack on a newspaper or television station.

So, leakers and fifth-columnists are good then?  Next Democrat President should have lots of fun.  Or did that already happen?  Why was Obama so impotent?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 07, 2018, 01:34:20 PM
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Oh, I don't know.  As far as I can recall, this is the first time he's explicitly referred to reporting and opinion as "TREASON? (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037464177269514240)" rather than railing about "fake news", "lying reports" and other Trumpisms for "You bastard, how did you find that out?"

Now, treason is a crime defined in the Constitution and not a word to be thrown about lightly, since it is also a capital crime.  So I think it does represent a raising of the stakes in his ongoing war with the media.  And his most committed followers are listening (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45361667).  I fear it’s only a matter of time — and not very much time — before there’s real violence by his wanna-be brownshirts.  I fear there will be a shooting or bombing at a polling place this November, or a Democratic campaign rally this fall, or an attack on a newspaper or television station.
Yeah, so far they've just been muddying the water, but soon I'm afraid they'll start bloodying the water...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 07, 2018, 03:18:44 PM
What can the courts do if Trump just ignores their decisions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kal1sFQi5bA


“John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.” Andrew Jackson

Remembering the Time Andrew Jackson Decided to Ignore the Supreme Court In the Name of Georgia’s Right to Cherokee Land (https://sustainatlanta.com/2015/04/02/remembering-the-time-andrew-jackson-decided-to-ignore-the-supreme-court-in-the-name-of-georgias-right-to-cherokee-land/)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 07, 2018, 03:45:30 PM
One other thing about this anonymous op-ed bothers me: the writer had to know that the Disaster-in-Chief would blow a gasket over it and make their self-proclaimed "resistance" even harder to carry out.  It's self-defeating at a minimum.  Most likely it's going to make an out-of-control, paranoid man even more out-of-control and paranoid, and make trying to mitigate the damage he's doing even more difficult.

Part of me wonders if this is something put out by a loyalist who's seeing the Orange Disaster Area undermined by his own staff and knows this is going to make that more difficult.  I wonder if there are any Bannon/Breitbart people remaining in the White House -- this would not only strengthen their hand by making it harder to interfere with their extremist agenda, but it's just the sort of false flag operation I think they're capable of.

The other part wonders if the writer is deliberately trying to push the Orange One over the edge entirely and force the Cabinet's hand with regard to Section 4 of the 25th Amendment.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 07, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
Hell, we may never know what's really going on. I've wondered whether Trump's people didn't put this out to give him an excuse for a general purge of WH staff, so he could hire people more loyal to him. It's just about impossible to second-guess these masters of manipulation.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on September 07, 2018, 04:16:01 PM
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Part of me wonders if this is something put out by a loyalist who's seeing the Orange Disaster Area undermined by his own staff and knows this is going to make that more difficult.  I wonder if there are any Bannon/Breitbart people remaining in the White House -- this would not only strengthen their hand by making it harder to interfere with their extremist agenda, but it's just the sort of false flag operation I think they're capable of.

The other part wonders if the writer is deliberately trying to push the Orange One over the edge entirely and force the Cabinet's hand with regard to Section 4 of the 25th Amendment.
The whole thing reminds me a lot of Town of Salem (a Mafia-style game where there are two factions, each person's true allegiance is hidden to others, and they set up executions each day, usually with members of one group working together to systematically eliminate all members of the other group)

Come to think of it, the Trump administration has as much ex-members as any of Town of Salem, as well as a penchant for purging their ranks in a sort of faction warfare.

I'm deeply troubled by how well this analogy fits.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 07, 2018, 06:37:49 PM
I'm sure glad other people watch FOX News, so I don't have to:


Sean Hannity Guest Claims Donald Trump Is the ‘Most Sound-Minded’ President Ever—And Science Proves It (https://www.newsweek.com/sean-hannity-trump-sound-minded-1109227)

I'm sure Trump's fan-base believes this with all their pea-pickin' little hearts.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 07, 2018, 06:58:09 PM
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Yeah, so far they've just been muddying the water, but soon I'm afraid they'll start bloodying the water...

Blood is good.  Then we can see if Ds are real people or zombies ;-)  Oh, it is your people, Antifa ... who took first blood already.  Payed by Soros.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 08, 2018, 03:31:01 AM
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Remember when we used to look to the Presidency for leadership?

Yeah, like when Obama was President.  Srsly
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 08, 2018, 03:35:28 AM
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What can the courts do if Trump just ignores their decisions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kal1sFQi5bA


“John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.” Andrew Jackson

Remembering the Time Andrew Jackson Decided to Ignore the Supreme Court In the Name of Georgia’s Right to Cherokee Land (https://sustainatlanta.com/2015/04/02/remembering-the-time-andrew-jackson-decided-to-ignore-the-supreme-court-in-the-name-of-georgias-right-to-cherokee-land/)

I remember reading that quote in history classes.  Today, it would take a DC police action if the White House security team resisted.   Maybe Army.  A more interesting question is whether the Cabinet and/or staff would push him out the front door...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 08, 2018, 08:48:55 AM
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Yeah, like when Obama was President.  Srsly

He was a great disappointment.  And then he has behaved badly after leaving office.  I know Africans and African-Americans at work, that I respect more.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 08, 2018, 08:50:12 AM
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I remember reading that quote in history classes.  Today, it would take a DC police action if the White House security team resisted.   Maybe Army.  A more interesting question is whether the Cabinet and/or staff would push him out the front door...

This did happen in S Korea a couple years ago.  Also Japan actually jailed one of their PM's back in the 70s ... something we didn't do with Nixon.  The Asians are clearly more intelligent than we are ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 08, 2018, 02:15:06 PM
In response to the earlier convo about the leaks...

Obama recently said this in one of his rallies, and it's spot on... it doesn't really matter if the leaks are true or not, because it's them patting themselves on the back for putting bandaids on a gaping wound, while still encouraging the guy widening the wound to keep doing what he is doing.

Quote
“These people aren’t elected, they aren’t accountable, they’re not doing us a service by actively promoting 90 percent of the crazy stuff that’s coming out of this White House and then saying, ‘don’t worry, we’re preventing the other 10 percent.’”
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 08, 2018, 02:46:26 PM
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In response to the earlier convo about the leaks...

Obama recently said this in one of his rallies, and it's spot on... it doesn't really matter if the leaks are true or not, because it's them patting themselves on the back for putting bandaids on a gaping wound, while still encouraging the guy widening the wound to keep doing what he is doing.

No win situation.  Both parties should be completely discredited.  I welcome our Chinese overlords.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 08, 2018, 02:47:28 PM
Maybe alien invasion wouldn't be such a bad thing...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 08, 2018, 02:52:34 PM
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Maybe alien invasion wouldn't be such a bad thing...

Do you mean Mexicans or Martians?    And "yes" is not an answer, LOL!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 08, 2018, 02:58:07 PM
Well, if "Martians" invaded they'd be illegal, too, but it's hard to build a wall to keep them out, much less get them to pay for it! ;-P
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 08, 2018, 03:00:01 PM
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Well, if "Martians" invaded they'd be illegal, too, but it's hard to build a wall to keep them out, much less get them to pay for it! ;-P

Question.  If you come straight down into a country from outer space, have you really illegally crossed a border?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 08, 2018, 03:04:01 PM
Better minds than mine would be needed to answer that! ;-P
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 08, 2018, 03:05:19 PM
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Better minds than mine would be needed to answer that! ;-P

Alien lawyers can never be illegal aliens ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 08, 2018, 03:06:39 PM
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Better minds than mine would be needed to answer that! ;-P

*I* know, let's ask Trump!

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 12, 2018, 02:21:30 PM
I hope all those Trump fans who helped put this traitor in office are happy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qr0wBwN4PU


No, I don't hope they're happy, I hope they're miserable and hate themselves.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 12, 2018, 02:34:12 PM
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I hope all those Trump fans who helped put this traitor in office are happy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qr0wBwN4PU


No, I don't hope they're happy, I hope they're miserable and hate themselves.

On a side note her boobs are amazing
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 02:42:11 PM
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I hope all those Trump fans who helped put this traitor in office are happy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qr0wBwN4PU


No, I don't hope they're happy, I hope they're miserable and hate themselves.

You had me worried for a moment.  *I* hope they are throw themselves off a dam.  But, then, they would probably throw themselves on the wet side...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 12, 2018, 03:32:45 PM
Trump bragged about having the tallest building in lower Manhattan after the towers fell:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct97ljiUlVk
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 03:40:15 PM
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Trump bragged about having the tallest building in lower Manhattan after the towers fell:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct97ljiUlVk

Well did he?  He might or might not have.

Oh, he bragged,  Well, duh, that's what he does.  Bet he didn't even know.  And of course, it doesn't matter to anyone but him.

But I couldn't find out...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 12, 2018, 03:40:52 PM
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Question.  If you come straight down into a country from outer space, have you really illegally crossed a border?
Prefacing it with the obligatory I Am Not A Lawyer... no, probably not.  National borders do not extend upwards indefinitely, otherwise orbiting a satellite would be a nightmare of diplomatic negotiations.  I think the rule of thumb is that aircraft are subject to national boundaries, but spacecraft are not.  It's probably tucked away somewhere in the Outer Space Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty).

As a side note, there is a body of opinion that Eisenhower had received intelligence that the Soviets were about to launch Sputnik I, and rather than accelerate the Explorer program to try to beat them to it, he let the Soviets launch first to get a precedent for unrestricted orbital overflight.  After all, once the Russians had orbited Sputnik I and II before Explorer I launched, they couldn't complain about American satellites passing over their territory when there had been no objection from the Americans for Soviet satellites overflying theirs.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 03:47:20 PM
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Prefacing it with the obligatory I Am Not A Lawyer... no, probably not.  National borders do not extend upwards indefinitely, otherwise orbiting a satellite would be a nightmare of diplomatic negotiations.  I think the rule of thumb is that aircraft are subject to national boundaries, but spacecraft are not.  It's probably tucked away somewhere in the Outer Space Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty).

As a side note, there is a body of opinion that Eisenhower had received intelligence that the Soviets were about to launch Sputnik I, and rather than accelerate the Explorer program to try to beat them to it, he let the Soviets launch first to get a precedent for unrestricted orbital overflight.  After all, once the Russians had orbited Sputnik I and II before Explorer I launched, they couldn't complain about American satellites passing over their territory when there had been no objection from the Americans for Soviet satellites overflying theirs.

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised.  Politic thinking at the top level is beyond me.  And beyond Eisenhower too, maybe.  But a staff member might have thought of it that way.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 12, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
I think the Putin/Trump agenda is the destruction of the economies of the West, with "America first" then Europe. Trump wants to punish the Western banks that stopped loaning him money and reward the Russian banks that did loan him money.
Quote
“The federal deficit hit $895 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal 2018, an increase of $222 billion, or 32 percent, over the same period the previous year, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

The nonpartisan CBO reported that the central drivers of the increasing deficit were the Republican tax law and the bipartisan agreement to increase spending. As a result, revenue only rose 1 percent, failing to keep up with a 7 percent surge in spending, it added.”




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k7lIy_qSeQ
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 12, 2018, 08:19:12 PM
Quote
“Voters haven't embraced the tax overhaul President Donald Trump signed late last year, but one of the main architects of the bill still thinks Democrats made an error in pledging to revisit the law.

"They are running on it and it's a huge mistake because no one wants to go back to the bad old days when the economy was flat, paychecks were flat," Rep. Kevin Brady, a Texas Republican, said in an interview that aired Friday morning on CNBC. He chairs the House Ways and Means Committee, the chamber's tax writing panel.

Republicans have tried to put tax reform back to the forefront in recent days, about two months ahead of midterm elections when they will try to stop Democrats from taking a House majority. Later this month, the House GOP aims to pass a bill that would make individual tax cuts approved last year permanent and would ease rules around retirement accounts, among other proposals.

The tax law, the GOP's signature achievement of this Congress, has failed to catch on with voters the way Republicans hoped. About 37 percent of registered voters approve of the platform, versus roughly 42 percent who disapprove, according to a RealClearPolitics average of polls. Consequently, Republican candidates have not used it heavily in ads across the country, despite the insistence from House Speaker Paul Ryan and other GOP leaders that the measure is working.”



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HplNzGvfYnU


Just more wealth care for the people who really matter to the GOP.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 12, 2018, 08:34:12 PM
Remember the days when Trump's handling of Puerto Rico was a "big" issue?

God, the simple times. But at least we can relive those memories...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQDbEDCFG1w

Trump is saying that his handling of Puerto Rico was an absolute success (right after the death toll got bumped up by several thousand, with the majority of those coming from lack of aid to the island in the months following) as well as moving $10,000,000 from hurricane response and relief programs to move to ICE detention centres.

Fucking. Psychopath. If you haven't seen his remarks about 9/11 as well... give them a look. Literally right after 9/11, his first thought was, "Huh, I have the biggest building in Manhattan again! Cool!".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 12, 2018, 08:55:46 PM
Wait until censorship goes full on in the US, with Republicans in charge.  Not so good for you or me.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on September 12, 2018, 09:37:30 PM
I think the Putin/Trump agenda is the destruction of the economies of the West, with "America first" then Europe. Trump wants to punish the Western banks that stopped loaning him money and reward the Russian banks that did loan him money.

Succinctly stated and quite possibly true.

Trump never saw any of these investigations coming to fruition, and we can only hope Mueller sees them through.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 12, 2018, 09:58:50 PM
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I think the Putin/Trump agenda is the destruction of the economies of the West, with "America first" then Europe. Trump wants to punish the Western banks that stopped loaning him money and reward the Russian banks that did loan him money.

Succinctly stated and quite possibly true.

Trump never saw any of these investigations coming to fruition, and we can only hope Mueller sees them through.

Mueller works for Satan, same as the rest of them.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on September 12, 2018, 10:09:32 PM
I did not know that.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 14, 2018, 03:58:22 AM
3000 dead in Puerto Rico.  --> Trump: A tremendous unsung success!

3000 dead on 9/11. --> Trump: Yeah! Now I have the tallest building in downtown Manhattan!


Dude is just a straight-up psychopath.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2018, 07:15:33 AM
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3000 dead in Puerto Rico.  --> Trump: A tremendous unsung success!

3000 dead on 9/11. --> Trump: Yeah! Now I have the tallest building in downtown Manhattan!


Dude is just a straight-up psychopath.

Most Americans are, that is why they voted for two psychopaths.  Could have had Gary Johnson, but no ...

Yes, too bad Trump is trying to equal Shrub's record on Katrina.  Too bad Republicans control the weather ... so you can blame them for that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 14, 2018, 05:53:52 PM
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3000 dead on 9/11. --> Trump: Yeah! Now I have the tallest building in downtown Manhattan!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-bragged-tallest-building/

According to this, whether he "bragged" or not is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, he was definitely bragging.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 14, 2018, 06:03:24 PM
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-bragged-tallest-building/

According to this, whether he "bragged" or not is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, he was definitely bragging.

I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wasn't bragging... why the fuck would you still bring up your building is now the tallest?

At the absolute least it was a horrible train of thought to say out loud, even if he didn't mean it in the most remotely braggadocio of ways. But you also have to remember he is Trump, who bragged about how "unsung, amazing" his handling of Puerto Rico (that left nearly 3000 people dead) was.

So yeah, he was bragging.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 14, 2018, 06:05:58 PM
Yeah, according to Trump those 3000 people did not die - it was the Democrats who inflated the number just to make him look bad.

As if he needs anyone other than himself to make him look bad...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2018, 06:48:03 PM
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I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wasn't bragging... why the fuck would you still bring up your building is now the tallest?

At the absolute least it was a horrible train of thought to say out loud, even if he didn't mean it in the most remotely braggadocio of ways. But you also have to remember he is Trump, who bragged about how "unsung, amazing" his handling of Puerto Rico (that left nearly 3000 people dead) was.

So yeah, he was bragging.

Some of us don't like stereotypical New Yorkers.  Cavebear has definitely turned me off on New England folk.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2018, 06:49:01 PM
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I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wasn't bragging... why the fuck would you still bring up your building is now the tallest?

At the absolute least it was a horrible train of thought to say out loud, even if he didn't mean it in the most remotely braggadocio of ways. But you also have to remember he is Trump, who bragged about how "unsung, amazing" his handling of Puerto Rico (that left nearly 3000 people dead) was.

So yeah, he was bragging.

What condition did Obama leave FEMA in?  Consider that also.

"The hurricane caused close to $62 billion in damage in the United States and at least $315 million in the Caribbean. Hurricane Sandy is the nation's most expensive storm since Hurricane Katrina, which caused $128 billion in damage. New York was most severely impacted due to damage to subways and roadway tunnels."

So is Obama personally responsible for not doing more to minimize the damage caused by Sandy?  After all ... Shrub is personally responsible for Katrina.  Darn those HAARP folks!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2018, 11:40:50 PM
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I think the Putin/Trump agenda is the destruction of the economies of the West, with "America first" then Europe. Trump wants to punish the Western banks that stopped loaning him money and reward the Russian banks that did loan him money.

That is entirely possible, though not proven.  But my bet is that Trump is a bit vengeful.  He does seem to focus on "those who did him wrong" in his mind.

Well, allow me to expand on that idea.  Trump is likely to be proven eventually to either be in the pocket of the Russians OR gladly willing to go along with them in their desires because he like authoritarian leaders.  Neither is in the service of the US.

That does not bother Trump.  Democracy, and the defense of democracy, is not his goal.  His goal is power, wealth, and control.  If enough people understand that in 7 weeks from now, his ability to control (but not his ability to destroy) will be diminished and history will conclude that the American People narrowly escaped a dictator.  But his ability to destroy will still be functional.

We will need to deal with that after the mid-term elections.  No one who is as basically insane as Trump can be allowed to continue to damage our international relationships and our internal politics for long. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2018, 11:59:19 PM
Politicians are rarely charitable.  Evidence?  Nixon.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 15, 2018, 02:09:41 PM
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That is entirely possible, though not proven.  But my bet is that Trump is a bit vengeful.  He does seem to focus on "those who did him wrong" in his mind.

Well, allow me to expand on that idea.  Trump is likely to be proven eventually to either be in the pocket of the Russians OR gladly willing to go along with them in their desires because he like authoritarian leaders.  Neither is in the service of the US.

That does not bother Trump.  Democracy, and the defense of democracy, is not his goal.  His goal is power, wealth, and control.  If enough people understand that in 7 weeks from now, his ability to control (but not his ability to destroy) will be diminished and history will conclude that the American People narrowly escaped a dictator.  But his ability to destroy will still be functional.

We will need to deal with that after the mid-term elections.  No one who is as basically insane as Trump can be allowed to continue to damage our international relationships and our internal politics for long. 
And the more desperate he becomes, the more dangerous he'll be, to both the U.S.A and the world. And all I can do is watch helplessly, like someone who knows a huge meteor is heading straight for the planet,  but can do nothing to stop it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 02:37:27 PM
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And the more desperate he becomes, the more dangerous he'll be, to both the U.S.A and the world. And all I can do is watch helplessly, like someone who knows a huge meteor is heading straight for the planet,  but can do nothing to stop it.

I keep thinking "November 6th, November 6th, November 6th"...

Failing that, Mueller...

Failing that "Jurrasic Park Attacks The White House"?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Even after November the new term won't start until January, and after that he'll still have lots of time in the office to destroy stuff, since, even if the Dems win both the House and Senate, it'll take a long time to actually get him out.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
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Even after November the new term won't start until January, and after that he'll still have lots of time in the office to destroy stuff, since, even if the Dems win both the House and Senate, it'll take a long time to actually get him out.

Yes, of course, November 6th is just the start.  But I expect that some Repubs will grow a spine if they survive "The Blue Wave"...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
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I keep thinking "November 6th, November 6th, November 6th"...

Failing that, Mueller...

Failing that "Jurrasic Park Attacks The White House"?

That last remark ... could happen.  Velociraptors, like sharks, will grant lawyers (most politicians) professional courtesies ;-)  Trump not being a lawyer, will get eaten.  Obama not.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 03:38:50 PM
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Even after November the new term won't start until January, and after that he'll still have lots of time in the office to destroy stuff, since, even if the Dems win both the House and Senate, it'll take a long time to actually get him out.

Burn the whole thing down.  I am counting Putin and Xi to end this ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 15, 2018, 05:01:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f64F6BcHsY
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 15, 2018, 05:12:37 PM
Will being impeached actually help Trump in 2020? Only if he remains in office:


Quote
According to new reports, Donald Trump is reportedly telling those closest to him that getting impeached may actually help his chances of winning reelection in 2020. Obviously the President doesn’t understand what kind of trouble he could actually be in if calls for impeachment continue to grow louder because he’s ignoring the fact that he’d likely be ineligible to run for President again if it happens


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6zRfyr5v4Q
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 15, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
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Yes, of course, November 6th is just the start.  But I expect that some Repubs will grow a spine if they survive "The Blue Wave"...
I don't.  They'll just feel emboldened if they survive it.  The only way to break them is to crush them electorally.  It's like the idiot who just barely won the 12th district special election last month -- he had a lead of 1500 votes (in a district designed to be a safe R seat) with about 8500 absentee and provisional ballots outstanding, and he kept demanding the Democratic candidate concede.  Which command of mathematics explains why Republicans seem to think that they can cut taxes on everyone except the people who need tax relief, spend like no tomorrow on the military, and balance the budget.

At the very least, a 'tax and spend' Democrat has the decency to go about raising the money before spending it, as opposed to a 'borrow and mortgage my children and grandchildren for my own personal gain' Republican.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 16, 2018, 01:18:03 AM
Mostly true.  But no Republican has been serious about balancing any budget since at least Reagan.  And the "Republican" Bill Clinton came closest to balancing the budget.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 16, 2018, 02:03:39 PM
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Will being impeached actually help Trump in 2020? Only if he remains in office:
Quote
According to new reports, Donald Trump is reportedly telling those closest to him that getting impeached may actually help his chances of winning reelection in 2020. Obviously the President doesn’t understand what kind of trouble he could actually be in if calls for impeachment continue to grow louder because he’s ignoring the fact that he’d likely be ineligible to run for President again if it happens
That's an interesting question.  The Constitution doesn't explicitly bar an impeached and convicted President from running and getting elected again, although the Senate may add a ban on future federal-level service if they convict.  When District Court Judge Alcee Hastings was convicted by the Senate in 1989, they didn't bar him from future Federal office, and four years later Hastings was elected to Congress, where he still serves today.

'Nother little object lesson here — Hastings, a Democrat, was impeached by a Democratic-controlled House (by a vote of 413-3) and convicted by a Democratic-controlled Senate on eight of eleven charges they voted on (a further six were dispensed with as being unnecessary as Hastings had already been convicted).

Republicans, on the other hand, simply don't care what crimes their fellow Republicans commit — one cannot with any honesty claim that any Democratic President who had done a tenth of the things the Orange Disaster Area has wouldn't already be the subject of an impeachment investigation, and probably already impeached in the House and sent on to the Senate for action.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 16, 2018, 02:40:38 PM
So that is why the D party didn't impeach LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Obama?  They are all guilty of war crimes.  Though Carter is only guilty of being afraid of rabbits.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 16, 2018, 07:36:51 PM
At least one Republican won't put up with the BS coming out of the Republican party anymore:


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-donor-les-wexner-announces-departure-from-republican-party-after-obama-visit_us_5b9d455ae4b046313fbbbdf1

Quote
Ohio billionaire and longtime Republican donor Les Wexner says he is officially done with the party, and was prompted to leave after former President Barack Obama visited the state.

Wexner, the CEO of retail conglomerate L Brands, which owns Victoria’s Secret and Bath & Body Works, announced at a leadership summit in Columbus on Thursday that he “won’t support this nonsense in the Republican Party” anymore,


I really hope this will set a long-term trend.


Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 16, 2018, 07:47:08 PM
Chris Hedges is someone I think worth listening to:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPk9HSLagVg
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on September 16, 2018, 08:27:46 PM
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At least one Republican won't put up with the BS coming out of the Republican party anymore:


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-donor-les-wexner-announces-departure-from-republican-party-after-obama-visit_us_5b9d455ae4b046313fbbbdf1


I really hope this will set a long-term trend.
That tremor your seismographs just picked up was my jaw hitting the floor.  Lex... er Les Luthor... dammit!  Wexner has bailed on the Repubs?  Wow.  Just... wow.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 16, 2018, 09:29:57 PM
Mr Hedges ... don't hedge your bets?  Financially, the craziness can continue longer than you can protect your assets.  Te financial craziness is driven by the political craziness.

Burn down the American empire?  Well ... only a true pyro would burn down his own house, while he was still in it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 03:01:07 AM
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That tremor your seismographs just picked up was my jaw hitting the floor.  Lex... er Les Luthor... dammit!  Wexner has bailed on the Repubs?  Wow.  Just... wow.

Every week, there seem to be more and more Republicans leaving the party and/or abandoning Trump.  I consider this a decent action of the "better" people understanding the inanity and craziness of the Trumpians.

Nixon was forced to resign due to factual crimes.  Trumpians will be charged one at a time for sheer meanness, corruption, and idiocy. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2018, 06:31:37 AM
Why feel reassured by Mike Pence supporters?  With him as President, everyone here will be in a FEMA camp, run by Christians.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2018, 01:50:53 PM
Yeah we can't win, even if we win. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 02:37:57 PM
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Yeah we can't win, even if we win. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Well, technically, we are not "damned" either way.  And neither are Christians, for that matter.  They just don't wake up after death and realize it.  We atheists, on the other hand realize that we are not damned BEFORE we die.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2018, 02:57:15 PM
Well, then, let's just say we're screwed either way. I've been expecting the rise of powerful theocrats for a while, and soon they'll be coming into their own.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 03:01:45 PM
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Well, then, let's just say we're screwed either way. I've been expecting the rise of powerful theocrats for a while, and soon they'll be coming into their own.

Not in the US.  The theists are mostly old and dying off.  TROTW is another problem though. Poverty creates stupidity and stupidity creates religion.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2018, 07:06:28 PM
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Yeah we can't win, even if we win. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Proof of G-d if I ever read one ;-))
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on September 22, 2018, 12:20:57 AM
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Well, then, let's just say we're screwed either way. I've been expecting the rise of powerful theocrats for a while, and soon they'll be coming into their own.

They've actually been here for awhile.

Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson, and the new breed like Olsteen. 

Different guys that need money. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 22, 2018, 12:39:26 AM
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They've actually been here for awhile.

Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson, and the new breed like Olsteen. 

Different guys that need money.

Billy Graham was the first successful one.  And the Bakkers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 03:36:36 AM
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They've actually been here for awhile.

Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson, and the new breed like Olsteen. 

Different guys that need money.

They are less socially and politically important than they used to be. 
(https://imgur.com/a/e43KhMI)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: ferdmonger on September 26, 2018, 12:09:40 AM
They are less socially and politically important than they used to be.

Thank god!  (Giant smiley unattached.)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 02:50:00 AM
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They are less socially and politically important than they used to be.

Thank god!  (Giant smiley unattached.)

Waves come and waves go.  Both the anti-religious and the religious ignore history.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 12:10:00 AM
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Waves come and waves go.  Both the anti-religious and the religious ignore history.

I am not religious, nor am I anti-god.  One can't be anti-god if you don't think one exists. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2018, 02:20:49 AM
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I am not religious, nor am I anti-god.  One can't be anti-god if you don't think one exists.

I am not anti-Democrat, since none exist.  Same with Republicans.  No true Americans.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 07:15:41 AM
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I am not anti-Democrat, since none exist.  Same with Republicans.  No true Americans.

There is evidence that both Democrats and Republicans exist.  And one might say that there are "Americans".  Variously indigineous, invading, and imported. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2018, 01:07:22 PM
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There is evidence that both Democrats and Republicans exist.  And one might say that there are "Americans".  Variously indigineous, invading, and imported.

Fictions like Adam and Eve.  I thought you didn't support fictions ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 01:30:33 PM
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Fictions like Adam and Eve.  I thought you didn't support fictions ;-)

I think YOU exist.  That is close enough to fiction.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2018, 07:20:35 PM
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I think YOU exist.  That is close enough to fiction.

You are wrong.  Neither of us exist, here, on this forum.  Just digital data which is neither alive nor conscious.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 28, 2018, 06:31:42 PM
Quote
Dr. Justin Frank, Pschoanalyst and author puts Donald Trump on Sigmund Freud's couch on the Thom Hartmann Program, what is the 45th President's major malfunction?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLbc7EaKKyU
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2018, 06:47:37 PM
Yes ... psychological analysis will probably find a narcissistic psychopath.  Typical of politicians and media stars.  So?

There is an old saying ... anyone who actually wants to be Pope, is unfit for that office.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 29, 2018, 07:04:06 PM


Quote
President Donald Trump spoke at the United Nations against the dangers of socialism, which he believes will lead to increased and unjustified policing, power centralized into the hands of a few people and poverty for the many.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48xxCLynWu4
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2018, 12:40:49 AM
Typical Republican policy.  But I thought real Republicans hate Trump?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on September 30, 2018, 05:42:26 PM

Who the hell says things like this!?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0awE-rnL4


I'd love to read those love letters! I bet they're hot!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on September 30, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
Bang on political cartoon about Trump's SC nominee and the GOP's response...

(http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/media/photologue/photos/cache/CH-MacKinnon-09_29_2018_original.jpg)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2018, 06:30:48 PM
Kim vs Trump ... yes, probably they recognize a fellow narcissist.

Yes, Per D party ... never let any R ever appoint anyone to any judgeship etc again ... really?

Were you at those parties the Kavanaugh went to at that exclusive prep school?

For me, I can never vote for any D candidate again, not even Obama.  Too much psychopathy among their gross leadership.  Like Maxine Waters.

I want every D party official accused of visiting Comet Pizza ... and mobbed by the peasants with torches and pitchforks?  No need for a trial, you know they are Satanic.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 05:36:40 AM
The above posts are amazing.  Trump is a child, he needs control, he fights order, etc.  And this is the person the minority elected and REJOICE in?  It says more about his supporters tan hin, but he does seem to be psychologigally damaged...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 06:27:24 AM
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The above posts are amazing.  Trump is a child, he needs control, he fights order, etc.  And this is the person the minority elected and REJOICE in?  It says more about his supporters tan hin, but he does seem to be psychologigally damaged...

Everyone is psychologically damaged.  The fight is over victimization ... get with the program.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 07:18:39 AM
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Everyone is psychologically damaged.  The fight is over victimization ... get with the program.

Speak for yourself, Horatio.  Not all who live are damaged.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 12:32:53 PM
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Speak for yourself, Horatio.  Not all who live are damaged.

So ... not a true Democrat then.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 12:38:45 PM
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So ... not a true Democrat then.

Never was.  Not a party member.  But given the 2 choices, I end up voting for Democrats by default.  Given threats to freedom via anarchy (everyone for themself) and theocracy on the R side and greater taxes to support infrastructure D etc. I 'd rather "pay than pray"...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 12:55:06 PM
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Never was.  Not a party member.  But given the 2 choices, I end up voting for Democrats by default.  Given threats to freedom via anarchy (everyone for themself) and theocracy on the R side and greater taxes to support infrastructure D etc. I 'd rather "pay than pray"...

Like I said ... centrist.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 01:10:35 PM
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Like I said ... centrist.

On a scale of 0-100 with Marx on the 100, i'm probably 60.  You are probably 35 and PR is probably 20.  In actuality, I'm more a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive.  I think you are more a Franklin Pierce type.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 01, 2018, 06:16:24 PM
Quote
According to a new report from the Trump administration, the planet is absolutely headed for a 7 degree temperature increase by the year 2100. But rather than using that as a flashpoint to spark change, they are using it as an excuse to say that we should go ahead and reduce fuel standards since there’s nothing we can do to stop the inevitable. They are wrong, but that hasn’t stopped them in the past, as Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins explains.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h1heDGwMws



"The planet is doomed, so let's just go ahead and kill it now."

Yep, sounds like Republicans, all right. Maybe they believe that if they fuck the planet up enough, then Jesus will have to come back and save his flock.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 07:09:34 PM
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On a scale of 0-100 with Marx on the 100, i'm probably 60.  You are probably 35 and PR is probably 20.  In actuality, I'm more a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive.  I think you are more a Franklin Pierce type.

I like Teddy Roosevelt too.  Until he split the ticket in 1912 and let the Wilsonian monster in.  To stop the Taft-o-saurus.  That is the origin of the RINO and DINO duopoly.

Franklin Pierce is an interesting choice.  I admire Andrew Jackson more.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 01, 2018, 10:45:16 PM
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"The planet is doomed, so let's just go ahead and kill it now."

Yep, sounds like Republicans, all right. Maybe they believe that if they fuck the planet up enough, then Jesus will have to come back and save his flock.
What, so they can fuck up heaven as badly as they fucked up the earth? Or that they can fuck up the new earth as bad as the old one? That's an argument to get rid of the problem and restart from backup, which is still bad news to you if you're part of the problem.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 10:52:24 PM
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What, so they can fuck up heaven as badly as they fucked up the earth? Or that they can fuck up the new earth as bad as the old one? That's an argument to get rid of the problem and restart from backup, which is still bad news to you if you're part of the problem.

Try Buddhism/Hinduism ... keep fucking things up again and again ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 02, 2018, 01:03:34 AM
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According to a new report from the Trump administration, the planet is absolutely headed for a 7 degree temperature increase by the year 2100.
Presumably written by the Chinese to reduce the US's manufacturing capabilities, right?

But seriously, the Trump administration is actively seeking to make global warming worse (http://time.com/5372406/climate-change-epa-coal-trump/) - which is worse than doing nothing at all.

Forgot politics for a second.  We've known about this problem for decades and decades, there's no doubt that it's real and the expected effects are catastrophic.  And not in some distant way.  No, this is going to haunt us - in ways we can't even imagine yet and probably for the rest of our lives.  And it's going to haunt our children.  And our children's children.

Doing nothing (or worse) about this problem at a national level is simply unforgivable.  Left, right, center, whatever.  Doesn't matter.

We can and should make putting the brakes on this incoming storm a major priority for any administration.  Full stop.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2018, 06:13:09 AM
Ah ... so end China (manufacturing and cars) by bombing them back to the Stone Age?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 02, 2018, 01:12:00 PM
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Presumably written by the Chinese to reduce the US's manufacturing capabilities, right?

But seriously, the Trump administration is actively seeking to make global warming worse (http://time.com/5372406/climate-change-epa-coal-trump/) - which is worse than doing nothing at all.

Forgot politics for a second.  We've known about this problem for decades and decades, there's no doubt that it's real and the expected effects are catastrophic.  And not in some distant way.  No, this is going to haunt us - in ways we can't even imagine yet and probably for the rest of our lives.  And it's going to haunt our children.  And our children's children.

Doing nothing (or worse) about this problem at a national level is simply unforgivable.  Left, right, center, whatever.  Doesn't matter.

We can and should make putting the brakes on this incoming storm a major priority for any administration.  Full stop.

Too many people believe that God is in charge, and he'd never let things get too bad. At least, not until it's time for Armageddon - then all bets are off.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2018, 07:16:47 PM
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Too many people believe that God is in charge, and he'd never let things get too bad. At least, not until it's time for Armageddon - then all bets are off.

Silly theology by silly people.  G-d isn't nice.  Read Job, Ecclesiastes and Lamentations.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 02, 2018, 09:14:29 PM
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Silly theology by silly people.  G-d isn't nice.  Read Job, Ecclesiastes and Lamentations.

Damn straight h's a prick.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
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Damn straight h's a prick.

Also a perfect memory, and vindictive ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 02, 2018, 10:48:56 PM
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Damn straight h's a prick.

In this mosaic Trump isn't just A prick but several hundred.

Zoom at your peril.

(https://redditupvoted.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/0pekvxx.jpg)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2018, 07:07:26 AM
It was so much more primitive in the 70s when we made symbol pictures of Lincoln etc.

Where's Waldo?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 03, 2018, 10:33:44 AM
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In this mosaic Trump isn't just A prick but several hundred.

Zoom at your peril.

Not while I'm at work, I won't!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 03, 2018, 10:40:01 AM
Meanwhile, just to prove that he's made of awful — and apparently see if he can break the record for the widest gender gap ever recorded in an American election — the Orange Disaster Area is now actively mocking Dr Blasey Ford's testimony (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45727618).

Granted, this is the same guy who openly mocked a disabled reporter (https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-reporter-with-disability-berman-sot-ac.cnn).

Any other person would have been driven from public life by now just for the first one.  I simply cannot fathom why anyone would support this vile entity any longer.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 03, 2018, 11:49:55 AM
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Meanwhile, just to prove that he's made of awful — and apparently see if he can break the record for the widest gender gap ever recorded in an American election — the Orange Disaster Area is now actively mocking Dr Blasey Ford's testimony (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45727618).

Granted, this is the same guy who openly mocked a disabled reporter (https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-reporter-with-disability-berman-sot-ac.cnn).

Any other person would have been driven from public life by now just for the first one.  I simply cannot fathom why anyone would support this vile entity any longer.
I agree 100%!!!!  Yet look at all the women who are holding up 'Women for Trump' signs!!!That goes into the 'I just, for the life of me, can't figure this out!'  WTF at its most profound!! 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 03, 2018, 01:30:16 PM
They (Trump supporters/fanatics) have been taught to believe lies when told them, and to worship and obey authority. They can't help it, the indoctrination has been too effective for them to resist it. And that's if they even wanted to resist it, but they don't even realize that there is anything to be resisted. The powers that be are grandmasters of manipulation and psychological encouragement, and have chosen the lowest common denominator to suborn.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 03, 2018, 02:25:34 PM
Okay, I got my FEMA testing alert.

I put the odds at 50-50 that Lord Dampnut uses it within the next six months in order to distract from something he got himself stuck in.

Actually, I put it at about 50-50 that he uses it before (or on) Election Day to stir up fear and/or disrupt GOTV activities.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 03, 2018, 02:43:25 PM

Apparently Trump's whole life has been a fraud. He's not a "self-made man" at all, and that was one of his major talking points. There seems to be a reason that he has affluenza:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtLrDz9Qznk
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2018, 03:58:28 PM
Used car salesmen and squillionaires are within the psychopath spectrum.

I would mock any and all D or R people, but it seems unnecessary at this point.  They have lost any credibility they once had.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2018, 04:00:11 PM
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I agree 100%!!!!  Yet look at all the women who are holding up 'Women for Trump' signs!!!That goes into the 'I just, for the life of me, can't figure this out!'  WTF at its most profound!!

The problem with most political behavior is that it depends on stereotypical behavior .. aka stereotyping people.  Not all women are the same.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 03, 2018, 10:11:16 PM
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Apparently Trump's whole life has been a fraud. He's not a "self-made man" at all, and that was one of his major talking points. There seems to be a reason that he has affluenza:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtLrDz9Qznk

Like father, like son.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2018, 10:53:55 PM
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Like father, like son.

Robespierre would be happy you are "woke".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 04, 2018, 01:09:04 AM
Wh...wha...what? Trump really didn't just parlay the "small loan of 1 MILLION DOLLARS from his dah-dee into billions through sheer will and genius building skills? Say it ain't so Trumpites! He couldn't have been involved in cheating, lying and tax fraud schemes since it's common knowledge that all taxes are derived from the Devil himself and only exist to take his HARD EARNED money to GIVE to us underserving types.  No, he's only rich because he had to work a billion times harder than everyone else! Or..did he merely just work harder at lying than everyone else?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 01:14:07 AM
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Okay, I got my FEMA testing alert.

I put the odds at 50-50 that Lord Dampnut uses it within the next six months in order to distract from something he got himself stuck in.

Actually, I put it at about 50-50 that he uses it before (or on) Election Day to stir up fear and/or disrupt GOTV activities.

I expect that "Lord Dampnut" (LOL on that phrase!) will do anything OTHER than show his taxes statements in order to stay in power.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 01:14:37 AM
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Wh...wha...what? Trump really didn't just parlay the "small loan of 1 MILLION DOLLARS from his dah-dee into billions through sheer will and genius building skills? Say it ain't so Trumpites! He couldn't have been involved in cheating, lying and tax fraud schemes since it's common knowledge that all taxes are derived from the Devil himself and only exist to take his HARD EARNED money to GIVE to us underserving types.  No, he's only rich because he had to work a billion times harder than everyone else! Or..did he merely just work harder at lying than everyone else?

The revolutionary Left usually fails.  And being pacifists opposed to gun control, the war won't last very long at all.

This is how it goes down ... to end the 1960s ...

There was no Greening of America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pwro3vCUdU
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 01:19:34 AM
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The revolutionary Left usually fails.  And being pacifists opposed to gun control, the war won't last very long at all.

This is how it goes down ... to end the 1960s ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pwro3vCUdU

Wasn't it just a few decades ago that the Right was screaming that the Left was violent, and willing to use weapons to support their cause?  Sure, have it both ways.  That is the Right theory. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 01:54:10 AM
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Wasn't it just a few decades ago that the Right was screaming that the Left was violent, and willing to use weapons to support their cause?  Sure, have it both ways.  That is the Right theory.

Didn't change a thing ... Nixon ended the student protests and the ghetto riots.  Yes, we are all violent .. and we virtue signal too.

I will take status quo violence usually, over the revolutionary kind.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 04, 2018, 02:52:25 AM
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Okay, I got my FEMA testing alert.
Me, too.  First time that I can recall.  WTF was that about?  Cause it didn't strike me as routine.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 02:56:12 AM
https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2018/10/02/nationwide-emergency-alert-test-planned-oct-3-test-messages-will-be-sent (https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2018/10/02/nationwide-emergency-alert-test-planned-oct-3-test-messages-will-be-sent)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 06:38:33 AM
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Me, too.  First time that I can recall.  WTF was that about?  Cause it didn't strike me as routine.

You have been warned.  I am sure Alex Jones could say a lot about it ;-)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 07:01:11 AM
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You have been warned.  I am sure Alex Jones could say a lot about it ;-)

Modern version of "hide under your desk and pray"...  Except who has a desk these days?  And who has an office?    I do have a VERY sturdy storm drain.  Not so deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door, but twill serve.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 07:10:37 AM
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Modern version of "hide under your desk and pray"...  Except who has a desk these days?  And who has an office?    I do have a VERY sturdy storm drain.  Not so deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door, but twill serve.

Not so old, that we practiced nuclear drill hiding under our school desks.  Maybe you remember that?

Kiss ass goodbye only applies to Mongolian contortionists.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 07:27:04 AM
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Not so old, that we practiced nuclear drill hiding under our school desks.  Maybe you remember that?

Kiss ass goodbye only applies to Mongolian contortionists.

We were limber as youths in the 60s.  And SOME of us (like me) laughed at the absurdity.  I remember once that if there was a 10 minute warning, we should all go home.  I lived 15 minutes away...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 04, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
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I expect that "Lord Dampnut" (LOL on that phrase!) will do anything OTHER than show his taxes statements in order to stay in power.
There are some wonderful politician anagrams -- you may recall that 'Spiro Agnew' is 'Grow A Penis', and 'Ronald Wilson Reagan' is 'Insane Anglo Warlord'.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 01:16:43 PM
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There are some wonderful politician anagrams -- you may recall that 'Spiro Agnew' is 'Grow A Penis', and 'Ronald Wilson Reagan' is 'Insane Anglo Warlord'.

Outstanding.  Sadly, anagrams baffle me.  I was better with slogans.  Most of which I probably couldn't even enter HERE!  Hey, when they start with "Tricky Dick" you can guess...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 04, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
Evidently we've been lied to all our lives! It turns out that crime really does pay, after all!

Who knew!?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html


I know I've already posted about this, but it bears repeating, I think.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 07:22:00 PM
Crime always pays.

We are all criminals.

if you aren't rich yet, you are doing it wrong!

Go dress up and Gandhi, tell us how holy you are.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
I will be glad when all the MSM is shut down by whatever dictator we so richly deserve.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 04, 2018, 08:48:30 PM
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Outstanding.  Sadly, anagrams baffle me.  I was better with slogans.  Most of which I probably couldn't even enter HERE!  Hey, when they start with "Tricky Dick" you can guess...
My favorite slogan from the early 70s was "Dick Nixon before he dicks you!"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 05, 2018, 01:23:09 AM
(https://i.redd.it/63w60lr819q11.jpg)

Coming soon:

"We lost the election because the libs bused in illegals!"
*picture of a school bus posted on FB with the mexican flag clumsily photoshopped on it*
*tidal wave of angry, gun-toting "peaceful" protestors going absolutely apeshit for 4 years*

--OR--

"Whew, that was a close election.  So close that the SCOTUS had to step in.  5-4 decision in our favor.  Your candidate lost fair and square, don't be such crybabies about it!"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 05, 2018, 01:49:34 AM
If Beto does not win, I'm not sure I am going to bother being optimistic anymore about America. Yes, progressives are winning... in states that are already progressive. America is more than New York, California, New England...

About a third of Americans polled believe Kavanaugh is innocent. Trying my best to look at it from a neutral point of view... I just don't see how anyone can hold this position. I completely understand the position of, "I don't know.", and can accept that, but if you are sure he is innocent after those hearings then there is not a chance in hell you aren't supporting him only because of his party.

I said it in another thread that America is a conservative nation... but it seems like we are becoming something far worse than that. We have become a regressive country... we have installed politicians who fight tooth and nail to bring us back to Gilded Age economics, that institute racist policies that effects millions upon millions of minorities in an attempt to make them second-class citizens, that wants to return us to the more ugly periods of sexism against women (I mean for fucks sake, we have a sitting U.S. president who fired a crowd up to laugh at a rape victim).

I don't see America recovering in my life time, especially not without some drastic events intervening the path we have gone down. My mom has always described American politics as a swinging pendulum, but I would take it one further... American society is a swinging pendulum, but each returning swing from one side strikes harder and harder each time in retaliation against the other.


The best one can do it seems is to put your head down, be a good person and hope you can avoid the crossfire for as long as you can... eventually you will get caught up in the shit storm, so might as well enjoy the calm before as long as you can.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 05, 2018, 02:23:59 AM
Looking at all the evidence to the contrary, how can people think Kavanaugh is totally innocent is beyond me. When 3 victims com fowarrd and th FBI and the Government is covering shit up it isn't really that hard to see.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 05, 2018, 02:41:50 AM
Does anyone has irrefutable evidence of Kavanagh guilt?
 Or it it just mass hysteria goaded by the Democrat party?

I know, it is a cover up by the FBI. The same lot who done the same for HRC.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 03:49:40 AM
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Looking at all the evidence to the contrary, how can people think Kavanaugh is totally innocent is beyond me. When 3 victims com fowarrd and th FBI and the Government is covering shit up it isn't really that hard to see.

He isn't innocent.  Any American, on any day, has committed 3 felonies.  On that basis, never confirm any appointee to any office ever again (unless Jesus).  I don't know what felonies he has committed.  I do believe, that an R has committed many of the same felonies that a D has committed.  They aren't different species.  I would be happy if we closed all our courts, and sent the judges into unemployment, along with all the police and all the lawyers.  All those folks are parasitic.  If you have a legal problem ...

Same with Trump or any other American, and their taxes.  Did Trump cheat?  Damn right.  Everyone should?  There are no valid laws in a country based on treason and genocide.  Embrace your evil side while you still can.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 03:51:34 AM
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Does anyone has irrefutable evidence of Kavanagh guilt?
 Or it it just mass hysteria goaded by the Democrat party?

I know, it is a cover up by the FBI. The same lot who done the same for HRC.

All Republicans are shape shifting reptilians.  Alex Jones told them so.  It is only fake news if the Democrats look bad.  And clearly Soros is behind both factions, in N America and Europe.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 05, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
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(https://i.redd.it/63w60lr819q11.jpg)

Coming soon:

"We lost the election because the libs bused in illegals!"

DO not count your chickens before they hatch.  With every fiber of my being, I wish a democratic sweep in the coming election.  But my reasoning tells me it just isn't going to happen.  As a country, this election will be the final nails into the coffin. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 05, 2018, 09:50:27 AM
Kavanaugh is guilty of... not being a Democrat!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 05, 2018, 10:28:36 AM
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Kavanaugh is guilty of... not being a Democrat!

No, he's guilty of not being pro-choice. If the Democrats had nominated Kavanaugh and he was pro-choice, and Dr. Ford went to the Republicans, the Republicans would be using the same tactic to prevent him from being appointed. When it comes to the Supreme Court, abortion is the number one thing liberals and conservatives care about. Ending legal abortion, after all, is what Trump promised in 2016: that Roe would be “automatically” be overturned should he be elected.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 05, 2018, 10:45:04 AM
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No, he's guilty of not being pro-choice. If the Democrats had nominated Kavanaugh and he was pro-choice, and Dr. Ford went to the Republicans, the Republicans would be using the same tactic to prevent him from being appointed. When it comes to the Supreme Court, abortion is the number one thing liberals and conservatives care about. Ending legal abortion, after all, is what Trump promised in 2016: that Roe would be “automatically” be overturned should he be elected.
So accusing him of being a serial rapist, an alcoholic and a child molester was just a deception?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 05, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
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So accusing him of being a serial rapist, an alcoholic and a child molester was just a deception?

It is a tactic to prevent him from being appointed to the Supreme Court. Do I think Dr. Ford is lying? No. The Democrats were looking for anything to block Kavanaugh's appointment and they are using Dr. Ford as a means to an end. The Republicans would have done the exact same thing. Trump is countering by reframing Kavanaugh as the victim. Both sides know how important this appointment and the midterm elections are and both sides are taking off the gloves.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 05, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Based on his performance in his second round of testimony, he's mostly guilty of lacking a judicial temperament and of bringing an entirely unnecessary cloud over the Supreme Court.  I am realist enough to know that despite appearances, certainly the justices are partisan.  But they do generally make the effort of at least trying to appear non-partisan, and Kavanaugh couldn't be bothered to do that.  The politic thing to do was leave attacking the Democrats to the Republicans.

Now, I question not just his fitness to serve, but also his intelligence and his emotional maturity.

This would have all been over with by now if they'd pulled Kavanaugh and nominated Amy Coney Barrett (an ideological match of Gorsuch) and they'd've had their right-wing court in place in time for the opening of the term this week.

But of course, the general intelligence and emotional maturity of the Republican Party is in question, too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 05, 2018, 11:09:28 AM
The law "innocent until proven guilty" is not for everyone.  There are exceptions.

All it needs is to burn a cross on his front lawn before lynching him.
Just like in the good old days.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 05, 2018, 11:14:11 AM
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Now, I question not just his fitness to serve, but also his intelligence and his emotional maturity.
Nah.  It's all because he's a Republican.  PR said so, and he's never said anything here that has ever turned out to be wrong.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 05, 2018, 11:38:46 AM
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The law "innocent until proven guilty" is not for everyone.  There are exceptions.

Yeah--the question is asked--how much money do you have?  That decides it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 12:26:45 PM
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DO not count your chickens before they hatch.  With every fiber of my being, I wish a democratic sweep in the coming election.  But my reasoning tells me it just isn't going to happen.  As a country, this election will be the final nails into the coffin.

Since 2016 ... I can emote that the end of the US is a good thing.  Not knowledge, not belief.  And with every fiber of my being.  Like wishing an asteroid had struck Germany or the USSR in the 1930s.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 12:28:43 PM
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So accusing him of being a serial rapist, an alcoholic and a child molester was just a deception?

Every human is evil.  Doesn't matter what the specifics are.  Both sides virtue signal ... but forget about "our father in Hell, damned be his name".
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 12:31:35 PM
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It is a tactic to prevent him from being appointed to the Supreme Court. Do I think Dr. Ford is lying? No. The Democrats were looking for anything to block Kavanaugh's appointment and they are using Dr. Ford as a means to an end. The Republicans would have done the exact same thing. Trump is countering by reframing Kavanaugh as the victim. Both sides know how important this appointment and the midterm elections are and both sides are taking off the gloves.

Congress should be more Turkish ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi96f4v5iC0

But the Turks forgot to bring guns to a food fight.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 12:33:12 PM
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The law "innocent until proven guilty" is not for everyone.  There are exceptions.

All it needs is to burn a cross on his front lawn before lynching him.
Just like in the good old days.

Dems don't do that anymore, the Repubs do now.  Dems prefer to send you to their Gulag.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 05, 2018, 12:35:40 PM
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The law "innocent until proven guilty" is not for everyone.  There are exceptions.

All it needs is to burn a cross on his front lawn before lynching him.
Just like in the good old days.


In many people's mind, the consequences go beyond Kavanaugh's guilt or innocence. The seriousness can't be overstated.

Liberal argument: If Kavanaugh is truly innocent, slandering an innocent man who will continue to be a federal judge is morally preferable to millions of women losing their reproductive rights.

Conservative argument: If Kavanaugh is truly guilty, appointing a man who sexually assaulted a woman in his youth is morally preferable to the continued slaughter of millions of unborn babies.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 12:41:27 PM
Yes, this is why we will have Civil War, if it is as stereotyped as you said.  I hope not.  In that stereotype there is a lot more evil to do than just extending or ending the right to terminate a pregnancy.  The Handmaid's Tale anyone?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 05, 2018, 01:18:37 PM
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No, he's guilty of not being pro-choice. If the Democrats had nominated Kavanaugh and he was pro-choice, and Dr. Ford went to the Republicans, the Republicans would be using the same tactic to prevent him from being appointed. When it comes to the Supreme Court, abortion is the number one thing liberals and conservatives care about. Ending legal abortion, after all, is what Trump promised in 2016: that Roe would be “automatically” be overturned should he be elected.

The Republicans don't really care about abortion or any other social issue, they only use those as hot-button items to fire up their base. They only really care about financial issues, which most people, especially their base don't even understand.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 05, 2018, 01:21:28 PM
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Yeah--the question is asked--how much money do you have?  That decides it.
No, I think the question is: how much money can you make for us?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 05, 2018, 01:40:10 PM
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The Republicans don't really care about abortion or any other social issue, they only use those as hot-button items to fire up their base.
I sometimes think that, but then I note that their base today becomes their leadership tomorrow (a phenomenon that rank-and-file democrats are envious of), so I think they sincerely do care about this issue.

For starters, its antagonizes their religious sensibilities and their related preoccupation with policing sexual morality.  (see homosexuality, birth control, HPV vaccine, etc)

Secondly, it conflicts with their concept of the traditional role of women as keepers of home and hearth foremost.

Thirdly, it's one of those complex, morally-ambiguous things that stupid people can't really grock - characterizing it as simple infanticide is much easier for them to grasp.  Thus, there will always be a subgroup who finds it positively abhorrent, which the Republicans gleefully cater towards and who in turn become Republicans.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 05, 2018, 02:05:30 PM
You may be right, it's impossible to put my head in their space and see the world as they see it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 05, 2018, 02:45:48 PM
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You may be right, it's impossible to put my head in their space and see the world as they see it.
Imagine someone who's kind of lost in the modern world, fears the future, and longs for an idealized past.

Also, someone who gets their news from Hannity and Alex Jones.  Fear and disinformation are the two major motivating factors, here.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 05, 2018, 02:48:31 PM
Necrocephalic? I can picture that...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 07:05:58 PM
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The Republicans don't really care about abortion or any other social issue, they only use those as hot-button items to fire up their base. They only really care about financial issues, which most people, especially their base don't even understand.

It is possible to understand finance.  But not if you believe in a free lunch, or benefits without work.  Those two are why people don't understand finance.  Nobody can make you understand something, when it is in your short term interest, to not understand it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 05, 2018, 07:07:41 PM
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You may be right, it's impossible to put my head in their space and see the world as they see it.

That is why you fail (see chess strategy).  And why they fail for the same reason.  If you can't anticipate their next move, then it is unclear what your present move should be.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 05, 2018, 09:02:38 PM
Quote
The law "innocent until proven guilty" is not for everyone. 

1. I am not the judge, nor the jury, in this case. Innocent until proven guilty is stating the rules for a court, not what a private citizen is forced to think.

2. Kavanaugh is not appearing before a judge nor jury. This was simply a hearing and had no legal implications, so innocent until proven guilty is not even relevant in this case.

3. Do you believe O.J. Simpson is innocent simply because he was proven innocent? Was Carl DeLuna guilty and deserved to be executed even though the officer admits he lied about the evidence and someone else has repeatedly stated that he was the one who actually did it?


The law is not by nature what is right, nor is it what is wrong.


4. To go back to 1 and 2, this is a job interview... tell me a single other job where if you were being accused of sexual assault, rightfully or wrongfully, your employer wouldn't care.


Quote
All it needs is to burn a cross on his front lawn before lynching him.

Cut the drama, all people are saying is that there are better choices for the Supreme Court, even ones that share his hateful ideology but at least don't have credible evidence that they attempted to rape someone against them.

It's not like this "case", if you even want to call it that given it has no legal ramifications, is determining if he should be executed, or even lose his normal job or... well, anything, really.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 01:51:22 AM
Your worst nightmare is realized.
Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed (51-49) for the supreme court.

The circus is over.





Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 06, 2018, 02:31:39 AM
Imagine being so partisan you celebrate an accused rapist who is being reviewed by he BAR association, who was nominated to take away reproductive rights for women, being elected to a life time appointment and one of the most powerful positions in the nation, just because it sticks it to "the left"...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 02:44:40 AM
Accused yes. Proven no.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 06, 2018, 02:57:46 AM
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Accused yes. Proven no.


Accused by credible sources who asked the FBI to investigate it, while he himself consistently tried to avoid any investigation into it. You have multiple times now accused Ford of being guilty until proven innocent, so let's cut the charade of that being what you care about.

Guilty people don't ask the FBI to investigate them, and innocent people aren't terrified of the FBI getting involved.

The fact of the matter is we will never know if he is guilty because there was no actual investigation. There are judges that share his ideology who aren't accused of raping women... why is this where the right wants to make it's stand, other than to be hateful?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 03:04:02 AM
Did Ford categorically state that she was actually raped by Kavanaugh?
I did not hear that. If it was a rape, why was it not reported to the police at the time?
How about the parents?

Also, I find it suspicious to air all this at the most convenient time. 37 years later.

The end justifies the means.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 06, 2018, 03:46:40 AM
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Did Ford categorically state that she was actually raped by Kavanaugh?
I did not hear that. If it was a rape, why was it not reported to the police at the time?
How about the parents?

Also, I find it suspicious to air all this at the most convenient time. 37 years later.

The end justifies the means.

And 3 people came up to say they were raped by a chronic liar? And the cover up is obvious. And you are blind.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 06, 2018, 04:01:13 AM
Hypothetical question:  is there a conservative on the planet who is such a complete POS that even PR won't try to defend him?  Or is it just 100% partisan circling the wagons all day, every day?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 06, 2018, 04:01:19 AM
Quote
Did Ford categorically state that she was actually raped by Kavanaugh?

Yes.

Quote
If it was a rape, why was it not reported to the police at the time?

Trauma? Shame? The fact that the overwhelming majority of rapists walk Scot-free while the woman has to deal with the social stigma? The fear of retaliation?

There are literally hundreds of reasons why women (and men) don't come forward.

Quote
Also, I find it suspicious to air all this at the most convenient time. 37 years later.

Yes... it's totally "suspicious" to bring up a crime when someone is being interviewed for one of the, arguably, top 10 most powerful government positions in the United States. A crime you had told your therapist and family about years before. Why would anyone bring it up at a time like that...

You have already decided she is guilty because you rather your "side" win than believe a woman could be sexually assaulted by a drunkard. And judging by your remarks above you obviously don''t have much sympathy for other rape victims as well since you apparently know nothing about the ramifications of sexual violence.

I would like to sit here and pretend to be shocked, but it's not like this is the first time you have indicated you have a bit of a misogynistic streak to your character.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 04:18:14 AM
If Kavanaugh is guilty as  you are all convinced, why has he been confirmed to the supreme court?
Should he not be on the way to prison for rape?

I know, a massive cover up. Is the FBI also guilty of collusion? Sure they are.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 06, 2018, 04:35:05 AM
Attorneys: Christine Blasey Ford doesn't want Kavanaugh impeached, has no regrets

https://www.news4jax.com/news/politics/attorneys-ford-doesnt-want-kavanaugh-impeached-has-no-regrets

WASHINGTON (CNN) - As Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh awaits a final Senate confirmation vote, a lawyer representing Christine Blasey Ford says she absolutely does not want him impeached if Democrats take control of Congress.

Ford's attorney Debra Katz tells CNN's Dana Bash in an interview that Ford only wanted to tell her story to Senate Judiciary Committee members. She doesn't want the process to drag on into the next Congress should Democrats end up winning control on Capitol Hill.

"Professor Ford has not asked for anything of the sort. What she did was to come forward and testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee and agree to cooperate with any investigation by the FBI and that's what she sought to do here," Katz said. ...

"And this was what she wanted to do, which was provide this information to the committee so they could make the best decision possible. And I think she still feels that was the right thing to do, so I don't think she has any regrets." ...



I have a lot of respect for Dr. Ford. She didn't have to put herself in the middle of a political maelstrom and media circus by telling a painful personal story for which she knew she would be criticized and mocked. She put her reputation on the line when she had no incentive to do so other than doing what she felt was right. I hope testifying doesn't negatively affect her career.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 06, 2018, 05:07:30 AM
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If Kavanaugh is guilty as  you are all convinced, why has he been confirmed to the supreme court?
Should he not be on the way to prison for rape?

I know, a massive cover up. Is the FBI also guilty of collusion? Sure they are.

They are afraid of King Trump.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 05:25:45 AM
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And 3 people came up to say they were raped by a chronic liar? And the cover up is obvious. And you are blind.

All humans are chronic liars ... we call it ... fiction.  What are you lying about?  Or just lying down?

Dr Ford was involved with hypnosis, and lied about it.  MK Ultra much?  Just more gamesmanship by the CIA aka Gestapo?

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 05:26:32 AM
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Your worst nightmare is realized.
Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed (51-49) for the supreme court.

The circus is over.

Not yet, the full Senate hasn't taken final confirmation action.  The media can milk this awhile longer.

The whole point of this exercise, is to get some controversial Senate votes that can't be denied, that can be used in the upcoming Senate elections.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 05:28:07 AM
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Hypothetical question:  is there a conservative on the planet who is such a complete POS that even PR won't try to defend him?  Or is it just 100% partisan circling the wagons all day, every day?

Can you hate conservatives as much as I hate liberals?  Hypothetical question only.  Atheism, religion of hate.  Oh ... sorry pr126 ... that is Islam.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 05:29:14 AM
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If Kavanaugh is guilty as  you are all convinced, why has he been confirmed to the supreme court?
Should he not be on the way to prison for rape?

I know, a massive cover up. Is the FBI also guilty of collusion? Sure they are.

Putin did it.  He has Thanos powers, the Commie stones are his, in his gauntlet of Marx!

Everyone here is 4 years old, hiding under their bed covers from the Boogie Man.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 05:33:08 AM
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They are afraid of King Trump.

Y'all should be afraid of King Jesus.  How much does Soros pay y'all for posting here?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 05:57:51 AM
Who needs evidence when you have faith? [in the democrat party]? :)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on October 06, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
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https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2018/10/02/nationwide-emergency-alert-test-planned-oct-3-test-messages-will-be-sent (https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2018/10/02/nationwide-emergency-alert-test-planned-oct-3-test-messages-will-be-sent)
I got my test in the last two days on my cell phone.  The special buzz alarmed me.  I thought an untracked hurricane was coming or something like that.  It just goes to show that FEMA does work.  Yay FEMA!  It works!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on October 06, 2018, 09:46:00 AM
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Who needs evidence when you have faith? [in the democrat party]? :)
Politically as in religion, faith is worthless.  Evidence is of little importance.  So what is the solution?  Vote Republican? 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 10:18:55 AM
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Politically as in religion, faith is worthless.  Evidence is of little importance.  So what is the solution?  Vote Republican? 
If you prefer the globalist/socialist utopia promised, vote Democrat.
See how well it works in California, New York, Detroit etc.
Open borders? Watch Europe implode. Take it as a warning.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on October 06, 2018, 10:47:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftA0lngeuXY
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 06, 2018, 10:52:46 AM
Quote
Who needs evidence when you have faith? [in the democrat party]? :)

Who needs evidence when you have faith? [that the person making credible accusations is lying because she is a woman]? :)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on October 06, 2018, 10:54:04 AM
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well, if you prefer the Marxist utopia promised, vote Democrat.
See how well it works in California, New York, Detroit etc.
There is no Marxist Utopia in the US.  I don't know where it is now, but California was the 7th largest economy in the world.  New York is probably the 1st largest economy in the US, and has more culture like the arts, although I'm talking about a city, which isn't as big as a state.  Detroit put all of it's eggs in the American automobile industry, which survived for as long as it did on an unrealistic patriotism to buy American even while Japan, and now Korea of all places, are making more popular and economical cars for the American consumer.  Detroit was always a major shithole IMO.  California not so much, especially as you travel north.  I wouldn't want to live in New York or California.  Some places in the US are more desirable shitholes to live than others.  I don't want a Marxist Utopia anymore than I want a fascist republic.  Since I left Chicago when I was 17, I've always lived in places surrounded by conservatives.  IMO, these types of places are the least worst shitholes, but my life revolves around nature, and I don't make choices about where I live based on the local political climate.  I don't think I would be happier surrounded by liberals if it meant being in crowds and tall buildings.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 11:17:43 AM
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Politically as in religion, faith is worthless.  Evidence is of little importance.  So what is the solution?  Vote Republican?

Admit the US is dead not alive.  Later you can admit that G-d is alive, not dead.

Has the US ever been like Athens?  No.  Has the US ever been like the Roman Republic?  Yes.  Plutocracy and militarism.  So unless you are a plutocrat or associated with the MIC (or domestic injustice system) ... you are a pleb (welfare mother) or slave.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 11:20:21 AM
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Who needs evidence when you have faith? [that the person making credible accusations is lying because she is a woman]? :)

It actually doesn't matter if she told the truth.  The Dems have been POONED by the master of Reality TV.  And Trump can still afford great looking hookers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 06, 2018, 11:29:09 AM
The really sad thing for the Republicans is, if they didn't have a man with the emotional maturity of a three year old in the White House, they could have resolved this in a minute by — as I suggested before — withdrawing Kavanaugh and instead nominating any one of a number of female conservative Federal judges.  Judge Barrett's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Coney_Barrett) name was the one most often mentioned, but she's in no way the only alternative.  Democrats would have been unable to mount a very serious opposition to a female nominee under the circumstances, Republicans would have their conservative court, and that would be that.  That's plain old politics.

Instead, you have a spoiled asshole in the Executive who throws a tantrum if anyone even hints at saying "no" to him, and a hypocrite, coward and liar running the Senate who didn't even want Kavanaugh nominated in the first place (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/07/us/politics/trump-mcconnell-supreme-court.html) about to shove through a damaged nominee and guaranteeing a damaged court that can only operate under a cloud of public distrust for years to come.

There are times I wonder if this is all a plot by libertarian-leaning Republicans to undermine any vestige of trust left in any part of the government whatsoever.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 06, 2018, 11:35:16 AM
Said if before.  Trump isn't the Real President (tm).  Pence is.  As was Biden and Cheney before him.  Voters are so cute when they are confused and angry.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 02:50:51 AM
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Evidently we've been lied to all our lives! It turns out that crime really does pay, after all!

Who knew!?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html


I know I've already posted about this, but it bears repeating, I think.

Crimes always pays if you get away with it.  And most great wealthy people live off the crimes of their fathers.  I would say to ask the Trump children, but I won't sink that low.  Ask the Rockefellers.  Well beyond the statutes of limitations...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 04:03:59 AM
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Crimes always pays if you get away with it.  And most great wealthy people live off the crimes of their fathers.  I would say to ask the Trump children, but I won't sink that low.  Ask the Rockefellers.  Well beyond the statutes of limitations...

Jealous you can't share your pirate booty with Hell spawn? (sarc).  Actually children are wonderful.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 05:04:28 AM
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Jealous you can't share your pirate booty with Hell spawn? (sarc).  Actually children are wonderful.

I didn't get my wealth from Daddy.  I saved like mad.  Actually, none of your post makes much sense in general or specific.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 08:41:06 AM
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I didn't get my wealth from Daddy.  I saved like mad.  Actually, none of your post makes much sense in general or specific.

That's OK.  I am American enough to appreciate "self made".  But sometimes (not you) it means "newly stolen".  Saving is hard if you have a spouse or children or impoverished family/friends.  I had the first two.  And those social burdens make it hard to keep what you save.  I am building my second "fortune" having lost the first in divorce.  However, the point of money isn't to have it, but to spend it where it is needed.  I hope to leave this world the way I came in, with no fortune at all, having applied it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 10:41:58 AM
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That's OK.  I am American enough to appreciate "self made".  But sometimes (not you) it means "newly stolen".  Saving is hard if you have a spouse or children or impoverished family/friends.  I had the first two.  And those social burdens make it hard to keep what you save.  I am building my second "fortune" having lost the first in divorce.  However, the point of money isn't to have it, but to spend it where it is needed.  I hope to leave this world the way I came in, with no fortune at all, having applied it.

OK, that was serious, and I will treat it seriously.  Sometimes men suffer from divorces.  A friend of my father's (so close we called him "Uncle") spent his life living above a garage after  divorce.  Be equally, many women spend much of their lives in poverty after divorces raising children on low salaries.  And both sides can feel alone and separated from their children.

No one wins.

I agree that money isn't the object of life.  Mine will go to my siblings and their children in hopes that they have easier lives than I did.  Recall me mentioning roaches dropping off the ceilings at night when I was younger... 

You can't take it with you when you die.  I've mentioned having money.  But I live like a college student.  I just don't love "things" much.  I do need a better chair to watch MSNBC from.  The headrest is too low on the current one and bends my neck.  And even then, I am thinking about a computer chair without wheels attached. 

All my basic furniture is "old stuff from parents and grandparents".  I may splurge on an oak dining table and 4 chairs soon, but that is 20 years overdue.  I live a simple life.  "House Beautiful" magazine is never going to visit me, LOL. 

Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
A simple life, regardless of resources, is best.  But for me reading and writing are a part of what is best.  That and being useful to customers, employers, friends and relatives.  Not so simple as a hermit miser.  In Hinduism, the ideal old age is that of the hermit, but without any goods (no miserliness, you give it away before you move into the forest to contemplate mortality by yourself).  For some the "forest" is the cremation ground.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
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A simple life, regardless of resources, is best.  But for me reading and writing are a part of what is best.  That and being useful to customers, employers, friends and relatives.  Not so simple as a hermit miser.  In Hinduism, the ideal old age is that of the hermit, but without any goods (no miserliness, you give it away before you move into the forest to contemplate mortality by yourself.  For some the "forest" is the cremation ground.

My Filosofic does not extend quite so far. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 01:35:42 PM
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My Filosofic does not extend quite so far.

And I am clearly not S Asian, but I think they provide a useful contrast.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 02:13:24 PM
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And I am clearly not S Asian, but I think they provide a useful contrast.

How are you sure you are not?  DNA test? 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 02:19:03 PM
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How are you sure you are not?  DNA test?

You know I did, and that I am not ... though over 40,000 years ago, some ancestry in Europe comes from W Asia or S Asia.  But not recently.  Though we are all Africans as of 80,000 years ago, including the earlier hominids who left Africa earlier.

I happen to admire many cultures.  But I have to defend W European/American culture from its competitors.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 02:21:45 PM
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You know I did, and that I am not ... though over 40,000 years ago, some ancestry in Europe comes from W Asia or S Asia.  But not recently.  Though we are all Africans as of 80,000 years ago, including the earlier hominids who left Africa earlier.

I happen to admire many cultures.  But I have to defend W European/American culture from its competitors.

Close, but behind the times. 

"But I have to defend W European/American culture from its competitors"  Why?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 02:32:09 PM
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Close, but behind the times. 

"But I have to defend W European/American culture from its competitors"  Why?

Says a self hating American?  Shiranu much?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 02:35:21 PM
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Says a self hating American?  Shiranu much?

Oh I don't mind the US being in Europe.  Let WW4 be fought there instead of here.  I besides, those GIs bring home lovely wives and that improves the gene pool.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 02:38:40 PM
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Oh I don't mind the US being in Europe.  Let WW4 be fought there instead of here.  I besides, those GIs bring home lovely wives and that improves the gene pool.

Good points ;-)  A brother of my father-in-law brought back a German girl.  Quite an exile for her, to go to a small town in the Colorado mountains.

Yes, per neutron bombs, the point is to use Europe as hostages and cannon fodder.  We are so ... virtuous ;-)  But they did refuse the neutron bombs.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 07, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
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Good points ;-)  A brother of my father-in-law brought back a German girl.  Quite an exile for her, to go to a small town in the Colorado mountains.

Yes, per neutron bombs, the point is to use Europe as hostages and cannon fodder.  We are so ... virtuous ;-)  But they did refuse the neutron bombs.

Well I am proud to say that my family tree now has a Japanese woman, a South Korean women, and a half Korean guy.   And if you look at it right, they have the reverse.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 07, 2018, 05:16:26 PM
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Actually children are wonderful.
Yeah, especially with a little catsup!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 07, 2018, 05:42:46 PM
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Well I am proud to say that my family tree now has a Japanese woman, a South Korean women, and a half Korean guy.
So help me, I read that last clause as "half a Korean guy" and was going to ask what happened...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2018, 07:42:38 PM
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Well I am proud to say that my family tree now has a Japanese woman, a South Korean women, and a half Korean guy.   And if you look at it right, they have the reverse.

Korean guy .. upper or lower half? ;-) That's gotta hurt!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 07, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
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Says a self hating American?  Shiranu much?

I don't hate being American, I only hate that being American has become synonymous with being a boring and horrible human being. Yes... we always did horrible things... but we also lead the way in magnificent achievements in science, in war, in culture as well as pioneering revolutionary new ways of thinking culturally and politically for many generations.

I hate that we are trying to regress into repeating everything we did wrong rather than celebrating and emulating everything we did right. In that way, I would argue I am quite conservative... I want to conserve the things that made America great, and it was never our bigotry, our racism, our sexism, nor classism and screwing our fellow citizen over that did those things... it was our drive for progress, for equality, for excellence and being the moral beacon of the world that made us great.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on October 09, 2018, 11:59:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Gl7CTdK.jpg)

(https://images.8tracks.com/cover/i/009/070/542/tumblr_ms29ua07jd1s8h29zo1_r1_500-8089.png?rect=6,48,444,444&q=98&fm=jpg&fit=max)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 10, 2018, 12:47:17 AM
so depressing
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 10, 2018, 01:26:53 AM
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So help me, I read that last clause as "half a Korean guy" and was going to ask what happened...

LOL!  But BIL.  His dad married a Korean woman.  She was loved in the family.  No problems there.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 10, 2018, 02:38:28 PM
It offends my intelligence that certain groups of republicans say that a obvious corrupted liar should be respected and praised as a member of SCOPTUS. It also offends my intelligence that they say its a liberal's problem and snobbishly laugh. It should everyone's problem but these people who can be good people are stupid and bigoted as fuck and I like to hit them with a crrowbar.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 10, 2018, 03:06:15 PM
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It offends my intelligence that certain groups of republicans say that a obvious corrupted liar should be respected and praised as a member of SCOPTUS. It also offends my intelligence that they say its a liberal's problem and snobbishly laugh. It should everyone's problem but these people who can be good people are stupid and bigoted as fuck and I like to hit them with a crrowbar.

Yes, the SCOTUS should all be centrist.  They SHOULD be a safety zone.  Kavanaiugh will not be.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 10, 2018, 03:13:10 PM
I suspect that, if the Republicans lose any mid-term elections, they'll just take them to court, all the way up to the SCOTUS. And then, guess what? They'll win.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 10, 2018, 04:33:26 PM
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I suspect that, if the Republicans lose any mid-term elections, they'll just take them to court, all the way up to the SCOTUS. And then, guess what? They'll win.

Yes.  No more to say.  Just Yes.  OK, more...

I look at the world thinking if Al Gore hadn't been cheated from the Election in 2000.  We would have solar power everywhere.  We would not have climate change now, we would have transcontinental maglevs.

Don't laugh. We would...  18 years is a long time.    We went to the moon in 9.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 10, 2018, 06:42:51 PM
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Yes.  No more to say.  Just Yes.  OK, more...

I look at the world thinking if Al Gore hadn't been cheated from the Election in 2000.  We would have solar power everywhere.  We would not have climate change now, we would have transcontinental maglevs.

Don't laugh. We would...  18 years is a long time.    We went to the moon in 9.
If Al Gore had not been such an abject coward, we may not be on the doorstep of a dictatorship. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 10, 2018, 06:55:58 PM
The Republicans know how to fight dirty, and are not afraid to do just that. The Democrats either don't know how, are afraid to. or both. The corporations win either way, but the people lose more with the GOP in power.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2018, 08:34:44 PM
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Yes, the SCOTUS should all be centrist.  They SHOULD be a safety zone.  Kavanaiugh will not be.

BS ... SCOTUS worthless since Dred Scott decision over 150 years ago.  Where were you people when Citizen's United was approved by SCOTUS?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2018, 08:36:00 PM
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The Republicans know how to fight dirty, and are not afraid to do just that. The Democrats either don't know how, are afraid to. or both. The corporations win either way, but the people lose more with the GOP in power.

Rollerball ... enjoy your entertainment, citizen!  All corporations, all the time.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2018, 08:37:40 PM
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It offends my intelligence that certain groups of republicans say that a obvious corrupted liar should be respected and praised as a member of SCOPTUS. It also offends my intelligence that they say its a liberal's problem and snobbishly laugh. It should everyone's problem but these people who can be good people are stupid and bigoted as fuck and I like to hit them with a crrowbar.

Funny, that is exactly what some Republicans are saying about the Democrats ... that unless you give them a dictatorship, they will take their spunk-in-spiced soy latte, and run home to watch Oprah and have a good cry.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2018, 08:38:30 PM
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If Al Gore had not been such an abject coward, we may not be on the doorstep of a dictatorship.

A bug not a feature.  We have insect overlords, not reptilians.  Social insects are ruled by Queens.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 11, 2018, 12:44:00 AM
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If Al Gore had not been such an abject coward, we may not be on the doorstep of a dictatorship.
Gore and Kerry both.  I have little doubt in my mind that Kerry had his election stolen in 2004 right here in Ohio, and despite all his posturing about not backing down, he immediately caved anyway.

I'm sorry, but the notion that the exit polls happened to be inaccurate only in Ohio and nowhere else — which is what you need to believe in order to accept the "official" 2004 results as being true and accurate — is bullshit.  The simple facts are:
I for one would really prefer for the head of a voting machine manufacturer to publicly promise to deliver accurate results without regard to who they personally support.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 04:45:43 AM
In the future, thanks to the Internet, and the crappy security that has to be so CIA can hack everything ...

elections will happen, from home, not a polling booth, and you won't even know the results are as fake as the primaries that Hillary won.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on October 11, 2018, 06:01:11 AM
So in one of his first cases, Kavanaugh is already arguing in favour of indefinite detention of immigrants without a trial. Even Neil, Trumps other appointee, had reservations about this.

But remember, innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what I was told to think about him? Apparently he doesn't share your ideals...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 11, 2018, 11:02:42 AM
Some people wonder why people support Trump. My husband has a degree in business, manages our financial investments, and the economy is by far the issue he cares about most. He believes that Trump's confrontation of China's worldwide economic and strategic aggression, its internal oppression and balancing trade between US and China will be Trump's legacy. He didn't vote for Trump in 2016 but says if Trump continues to push China and protect America's economic interest he will vote for him, regardless of other issues, because he feels economic trade rules will affect America for generations. Agree or disagree, this is part of Trump's appeal.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on October 11, 2018, 11:23:03 AM
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Gore and Kerry both.  I have little doubt in my mind that Kerry had his election stolen in 2004 right here in Ohio, and despite all his posturing about not backing down, he immediately caved anyway.

I'm sorry, but the notion that the exit polls happened to be inaccurate only in Ohio and nowhere else — which is what you need to believe in order to accept the "official" 2004 results as being true and accurate — is bullshit.  The simple facts are:
  • exit polling is not a "guess", it's a well-researched way to measure, within statistical limits, the results of voting; and
  • only one out of every 37 Kerry votes needed to be flipped to a Dubya vote to change the exit poll result to the "official" result; and
  • the CEO of Diebold, HQ'd right here in Ohio and manufacturer of electronic voting machines, had in a rather Orwellian way publicly promised to deliver Ohio for Dubya.
I agree with all that you said.  But I'd prefer if all voting was done with paper ballots.
I for one would really prefer for the head of a voting machine manufacturer to publicly promise to deliver accurate results without regard to who they personally support.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on October 11, 2018, 12:28:31 PM
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I agree with all that you said.  But I'd prefer if all voting was done with paper ballots.
So would I.  There's no law that says all ballots have to be counted and announced fifteen minutes after the polls close.  On a matter this important, I want a paper trail.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 11, 2018, 12:36:07 PM
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Some people wonder why people support Trump. My husband has a degree in business, manages our financial investments, and the economy is by far the issue he cares about most. He believes that Trump's confrontation of China's worldwide economic and strategic aggression, its internal oppression and balancing trade between US and China will be Trump's legacy. He didn't vote for Trump in 2016 but says if Trump continues to push China and protect America's economic interest he will vote for him, regardless of other issues, because he feels economic trade rules will affect America for generations. Agree or disagree, this is part of Trump's appeal.

So they would ignore the flaws  for their preferred positives. That's just selfish and insane in one go.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 11, 2018, 01:05:17 PM
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So they would ignore the flaws  for their preferred positives. That's just selfish and insane in one go.

We voted for Clinton even though she's a horrible person because she supported more of our interests. My husband thinks Trump is a horrible person but he's willing to vote for him if the Democrats don't put forth a candidate who will play hardball with China and prioritize US economic interests, which they probably won't. It's not about ignoring the flaws but balancing them against priorities. There nothing insane about believing the health of the American economy is a top priority.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 01:07:56 PM
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Some people wonder why people support Trump. My husband has a degree in business, manages our financial investments, and the economy is by far the issue he cares about most. He believes that Trump's confrontation of China's worldwide economic and strategic aggression, its internal oppression and balancing trade between US and China will be Trump's legacy. He didn't vote for Trump in 2016 but says if Trump continues to push China and protect America's economic interest he will vote for him, regardless of other issues, because he feels economic trade rules will affect America for generations. Agree or disagree, this is part of Trump's appeal.

Trump is much smoke and little fire.  What little he as done, has been show and tell.  And no one can say how the trade war will work out.  The alternative to letting China become the primary economy starting in the 90s ... was nuclear war.  The USSR is down, and Russia is better than the USSR, but not by much economically.  The Chinese Communist Party morphed ... but with Xi becoming the new Mao ... it seems we are seeing "peak China" for now.  The tendency of nations is to try to become hegemon, with many competitors.  Keeping the competition to non-violence is a challenge.  The US became undisputed hegemon in 1992 ... but that was never meant to last.  Not only a revived Russia, and an ever more vigorous China, but an EU led by Unified Germany ... oppose this.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
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We voted for Clinton even though she's a horrible person because she supported more of our interests. My husband thinks Trump is a horrible person but he's willing to vote for him if the Democrats don't put forth a candidate who will play hardball with China and prioritize US economic interests, which they probably won't. It's not about ignoring the flaws but balancing them against priorities. There nothing insane about believing the health of the American economy is a top priority.

Nixon sold out the US to China way back in the 70s.  I was all for it back then.  Al Gore was caught in a China scandal in the 2000 election.  How soon we forget.  That election was so close, that one item could have turned it.

There can be no healthy US economy, without a healthy world economy.  Unfortunately the first is impossible, because the second is impossible.  That is why you have human trafficking immigration criminality, being supported at the highest levels.  Deplorables, all the way down.

The Dems made a pack with the Clinton Cthulhu ... because she promised to eat the gays last.

Most people won't consider the economy vs voting.  Most people believe in a magical free lunch, that many are kept from getting, because Trump etc is a meanie!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 01:14:48 PM
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So in one of his first cases, Kavanaugh is already arguing in favour of indefinite detention of immigrants without a trial. Even Neil, Trumps other appointee, had reservations about this.

But remember, innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that what I was told to think about him? Apparently he doesn't share your ideals...

Innocent until proven guilty ... bwahaha ... hasn't been true since we got Al Capone for tax evasion.  Idealists believe all sorts of happy nonsense.

Declaration of Independence = lies
US Constitution and amendments = lies
US legal code based on the above = more lies

Keep trying what is failing, it is sure to work if you try hard enough.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 01:17:11 PM
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So they would ignore the flaws  for their preferred positives. That's just selfish and insane in one go.

Voters = insane primates
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 11, 2018, 03:29:57 PM
Just...wow...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGUqv8LTkw
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 11, 2018, 03:46:24 PM
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Just...wow...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGUqv8LTkw

I admit I know nothing about Kanye West, I've never heard him speak before and I'm not even sure I have heard any of his songs. I will only say that I agree with Trump when he responded, "That was quite something."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 07:34:14 PM
Democrats don't like when welfare/crime slaves think independently.  Gotta keep that 10% strongly voting blindly for communism.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 11, 2018, 08:49:12 PM
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Voters = insane primates

Baruch=FOS
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2018, 10:19:13 PM
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Baruch=FOS

LBJ was Satan himself.  Just ask the Vietnamese.  And LBJ was every inch a Democrat.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 14, 2018, 01:37:53 AM
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Where were you people when Citizen's United was approved by SCOTUS?

Screaming angry!  And still angry to this day. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2018, 02:24:54 AM
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Screaming angry!  And still angry to this day.

Yes, both parties in Congress jumped into action to .... yawn.  Term limits anyone?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 14, 2018, 05:15:13 AM
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Yes, both parties in Congress jumped into action to .... yawn.  Term limits anyone?

I hate dark money.  On either side.  Astroturf crap with names that disguise their intent.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2018, 07:54:45 AM
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I hate dark money.  On either side.  Astroturf crap with names that disguise their intent.

Every congressman should wear a suit coat, with the logos of all his/her sponsors on it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on October 14, 2018, 08:59:11 AM
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Every congressman should wear a suit coat, with the logos of all his/her sponsors on it.

That WOULD make them more honest.  In fact, I rather like the idea.  "Senator Smith, brought to you today by The Koch's, The Catholic Church, and some PACs"
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on October 17, 2018, 01:51:39 PM
Quote
"President Donald Trump likes to boast that he’s breaking records with the latest low unemployment figures. Here’s another record for his administration: The 2018 federal deficit hit the highest level of the last six years.

The deficit jumped 17 percent (or by $113 billion) to $779 billion at the end of Trump’s first fiscal year, according to final figures released Monday by the Treasury Department. That’s mostly due to the massive corporate tax cut that slashed rates from 35 percent to 21 percent, choking revenue for spending, which climbed 3 percent. Much of that was a hike in defense spending and money to pay interest on the climbing federal debt, CNN reported.

The U.S. government’s $523 billion in interest payments to service its debt in 2018 — the highest ever — was more than the entire economic output of Belgium this year, Bloomberg reported."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbauVaaw4Vk


Does this surprise anyone? Not me, I've been saying for a while that the Putin/Trump agenda is the ruination of America's economy ("America first"), and then the economy of the EU. They seem to be right on track to do just that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2018, 06:49:42 PM
Like the EU?  Move to the EU.  They need suckers to replace the Greeks, Brits maybe the Italians, the Hungarians ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 01, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUenC7BWjZ8


It's interesting to see Trump admit that he lies, but will his fan base ever believe that?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2018, 06:28:39 AM
Only the government should be allowed to lie - Plato

Full quote:

To the rulers of the state then, if to any, belongs the right to use falsehood, to deceive either enemies or their own citizens, for the good of the state: and no one else may meddle with this privilege. - The Republic

Known liars ... George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, FDR ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 02, 2018, 01:16:36 PM
I bet no president has ever lied nearly as much as the current occupant of the WH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf-HxgdboOU


Oh, but CNN is "fake news," huh?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 02, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
2000 lies? Kimmel calls it "lie2K"! LOL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQruDaf7bKs
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2018, 01:53:03 PM
Truthiness is the new reality (same as the old reality).

Tell it to Reverend Weems.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 03, 2018, 02:30:08 AM
I am looking forward to Election Day when people who despise Trump win.  The House at least.  The Senate seems unlikely.

The saddest part, but almost sensible, is that the theists will support Trump in spite of his faults that far out range anything previous Presidents did in spite of his immoral and unethical behavior and views.  He gave them 2 radical insane SCOTUS and they forgive him for everything.

That's sick!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 11:18:21 AM
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I am looking forward to Election Day when people who despise Trump win.  The House at least.  The Senate seems unlikely.

The saddest part, but almost sensible, is that the theists will support Trump in spite of his faults that far out range anything previous Presidents did in spite of his immoral and unethical behavior and views.  He gave them 2 radical insane SCOTUS and they forgive him for everything.

That's sick!

Maybe.  I dred elections now.  Someone will be disappointed.  Will they start a civil war?  Democrats do.  Just one step closer to elections being banned, replaced by dictatorship.  And yes, you are partisan ... as are most other people.  I am not in this sense, I hate inhumanity, which seems to be brought to the fore by politics.  The center cannot hold, as long as the wings find it profitable to divide and disintegrate the US.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 03, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
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I am looking forward to Election Day when people who despise Trump win.  The House at least.  The Senate seems unlikely.

I know it is popular in some circles to think Trump will be defeated in a few days.  I predict that the Repubs will retain control of both houses and that Trump will be reelected in two years.  I don't see much hope for this country; and it seems to be a sickness that is creeping around the world. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 11:29:20 AM
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I know it is popular in some circles to think Trump will be defeated in a few days.  I predict that the Repubs will retain control of both houses and that Trump will be reelected in two years.  I don't see much hope for this country; and it seems to be a sickness that is creeping around the world.

You may be right.  But the idea that people will turn centrist and moderate, shake hands, and stop acting out ...is even more unlikely.  Think Planet of the Apes.  I voted for as many non-R non-D as I could.  I had to choose the R over the D when no independent was available ... for the same reasons I voted for Obama over McCain or over Romney ... I don't vote for ...

When I voted for Obama, it wasn't because of the D after his name, but in spite of it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 03, 2018, 11:35:20 AM
My default is Demo.  Never, ever a Repub.  Once upon a time, that was not the case.  I would, every now and again, vote independent or Rep.  Now, all repubs represent evil--yeah, 100%.  So, I consider the issues and who represents those issues I care about.  If an independent represents those then I vote for them; otherwise I default to a Demo.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
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My default is Demo.  Never, ever a Repub.  Once upon a time, that was not the case.  I would, every now and again, vote independent or Rep.  Now, all repubs represent evil--yeah, 100%.  So, I consider the issues and who represents those issues I care about.  If an independent represents those then I vote for them; otherwise I default to a Demo.

I did that once, then stopped voting.  I didn't like myself that way.  I understand that demonizing an opposition is what you do before war and genocide.  I can see genocide coming to the US.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 03, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
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I did that once, then stopped voting.  I didn't like myself that way.  I understand that demonizing an opposition is what you do before war and genocide.  I can see genocide coming to the US.
Yeah, so can I.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 03, 2018, 01:30:50 PM
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I know it is popular in some circles to think Trump will be defeated in a few days.  I predict that the Repubs will retain control of both houses and that Trump will be reelected in two years.  I don't see much hope for this country; and it seems to be a sickness that is creeping around the world. 
I think so, as well, but I'm a pessimist, so I always expect the worst. Occasionally the worst doesn't happen, and I can be glad I was wrong. I really hope I'm wrong in this case! I hope we don't see a terrorism style of civil war, which seems to have already begun. Whatever happens, I don't expect it to be good for this country.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 01:40:19 PM
War in general, and civil war in particular, are never good ideas.  But people keep turning to it again and again ;-(

Americans could stick together better, with an external enemy like the Soviet Union.  That is part of the reason for the "Russia, Russia" narrative.  I seem to recall and Outer Limits episode about this ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 04, 2018, 01:50:30 AM
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My default is Demo.  Never, ever a Repub.  Once upon a time, that was not the case.  I would, every now and again, vote independent or Rep.  Now, all repubs represent evil--yeah, 100%.  So, I consider the issues and who represents those issues I care about.  If an independent represents those then I vote for them; otherwise I default to a Demo.
I swore never to vote for another Republican during the attempted coup d'état against President Clinton -- not only do I remain unconvinced that articles of impeachment brought by a lame duck House even need to be considered by a Senate of the next Congress, but the standing ovation that then-chairman (and professional class hypocrite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hyde#Extramarital_affair)) Edward Henry Hyde and the Repubs on the Judiciary Committee gave Witchhunter General Starr at the end of his testimony was the most revoltingly partisan display I had ever seen, up to that point.  Especially if you're old enough to remember the way Pete Rodino ran the Judiciary Committee during Watergate.  The Republicans clearly had no interest in unearthing the facts -- they wanted revenge on a President they were unable to defeat in two elections, no more, no less.

That doesn't mean I will always vote for the Democrat, but I will withhold my vote in specific races if there's no acceptable alternative.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2018, 03:35:46 AM
Democrats want revenge too.  That is what Hitler wanted against GB and France.  So noble a motivation.  Is that any different than KKK who want revenge for the US Civil War?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 05, 2018, 03:53:36 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZD_xyAjC-E
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2018, 07:28:31 PM
Yawn ... broken promises of every slime ball politician ever.  Have you ever read H L Mencken?  Now there was a newspaper man ...

"A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar."

"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods."

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance."

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2018, 12:52:38 PM
But ... wishing everyone a happy day.  I want everyone to be successful and happy, though I now it won't happen, because I know people work a cross purposes.  For Americans ... go vote if you haven't already.  Be a good sport, and don't be too upset if your candidate looses or too arrogant if your candidate wins.  Unlike some others on the Internet, I don't feed on liberal tears, or conservative ones either.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Munch on November 06, 2018, 01:05:01 PM
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But ... wishing everyone a happy day.  I want everyone to be successful and happy, though I now it won't happen, because I know people work a cross purposes.  For Americans ... go vote if you haven't already.  Be a good sport, and don't be too upset if your candidate looses or too arrogant if your candidate wins.  Unlike some others on the Internet, I don't feed on liberal tears, or conservative ones either.
well said. whatever happens happens
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2018, 01:18:15 PM
Today will be the day the US of A will cement it's claim to the stupidest people in the world.  To be clear.  The dems will win more seats, but the repubs will retain control of both houses--throw in the presidency and the supreme court and the agents of the 1% and the religious will have free reign over what is left of the govt.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 06, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
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The dems will win more seats, but the repubs will retain control of both houses--throw in the presidency and the supreme court and the agents of the 1% and the religious will have free reign over what is left of the govt.

https://youtu.be/WH1NihRN5cU
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on November 06, 2018, 04:22:36 PM
I'll just mark this under Trump, since it ties into his strong armed tactics...

In El Paso, ICE and Border Patrol have been gathering around polling centres to try and intimidate Hispanics from voting.

I have heard it said the U.N. needs to start getting involved and overseeing our elections, and I agree with that whole-heartedly. We also just recently had some issues with our machines changing votes, which hurt both sides.

Elections are a fucking joke; hundreds of thousands of people being purged (they just coincidently are overwhelmingly minorities), untrustworthy machines, the person with less votes winning... I voted this year, and have in every election I could, but it's reaching the point where even I question if voting actually matters. It seems like if it still does, they are finding any way they can to make sure it doesn't.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 06, 2018, 04:25:01 PM
The powers that be have gotten very tired of having to bow to the voters of this country, and would like nothing better than to do away with voting completely. They may soon get their way.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2018, 07:36:51 PM
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Today will be the day the US of A will cement it's claim to the stupidest people in the world.  To be clear.  The dems will win more seats, but the repubs will retain control of both houses--throw in the presidency and the supreme court and the agents of the 1% and the religious will have free reign over what is left of the govt.

Try not to have a fit over things you can't control.  You aren't the commissar in charge of one party elections ... yet.  But you could do worse than my precinct if someone would just make you dictator ...

As I IMed before ... some precincts allow early voting, with proper ID vetting of voters vs voter rolls (not many get past that).  Just having a drivers license isn't enough to vote, you have to register weeks before.  Properly made ballots, with proper tabulation.  But the majority of precincts in the US suck, as do most of the states and counties, apparently.  Local politics at its best.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2018, 07:38:15 PM
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The powers that be have gotten very tired of having to bow to the voters of this country, and would like nothing better than to do away with voting completely. They may soon get their way.

I would second that.  Then get rid of the American people, replace them with 100 million or so hard working Chinese.  Send all the existing Americans to Venezuela.  Once you have a Chinese America, with one party under Xi ... you can revive proper voting ;-)

I have to wonder what kind of voting Shiranu is complaining about.  Letting people with no valid ID vote?  Letting people not registered vote?  I could hope not.  As posted above, there have been solutions for this, from before 2000.  Meanwhile the D party has been accused in Georgia of fixing things ...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2018, 07:44:57 PM
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Try not to have a fit over things you can't control. 
This coming off your keyboard??? :))))  Okay...............................
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2018, 07:47:41 PM
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This coming off your keyboard??? :))))  Okay...............................

I merely act as the walls for this echo chamber ... most of you like Blue Meanies, allergic to music.  Nowhere man to the rescue!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 06, 2018, 08:15:24 PM
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Meanwhile the D party has been accused in Georgia of fixing things ...
Of course - the GOP always accuses its opponents (sans evidence) of doing exactly what it is already doing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2018, 08:48:33 PM
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Of course - the GOP always accuses its opponents (sans evidence) of doing exactly what it is already doing.

If both do it, ban both parties.  As an Independent I would love to end y'alls reign of terror.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: James51 on November 07, 2018, 03:52:52 AM
Trump must be crapping himself after the election. 2nd term looking less and less likely... Thankfully!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Munch on November 07, 2018, 04:55:59 AM
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Trump must be crapping himself after the election. 2nd term looking less and less likely... Thankfully!

Or it just means he's going to try and create an image of himself that will get more votes, while working out some more rigged systems behind the public image, now knowing the threat of losing
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2018, 06:09:32 AM
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Or it just means he's going to try and create an image of himself that will get more votes, while working out some more rigged systems behind the public image, now knowing the threat of losing

Trump had, and still has plenty of Rs who don't support him.  We need JEB, we need JEB!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Munch on November 07, 2018, 07:55:21 AM
What's a Jeb, sounds like something you put on a horse
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2018, 08:10:07 AM
May be, he'll go with something like 'I wasn't impeached! See, I am totally awsome!' 

And dat's a lot of gals, dems. Good job. Puhahahah. :)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 07, 2018, 08:42:50 AM
I was wrong about the midterm.  I did not really think the dems would take the house.  Happy to be wrong in this instance.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2018, 11:14:42 AM
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I was wrong about the midterm.  I did not really think the dems would take the house.  Happy to be wrong in this instance.

Right? So was I. I woke up at 7 smt in the morning, and found my phone in the dark to check,lol. I couldn't wait to turn on the comp. And shouted at mom from bed. :) We got up and watched the news.

It affected my whole day to be honest. I went out and made some shopping, which I needed but I couldn't find it in me for a few days now. Walked around, ate American fast food to celebrate. :p   
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2018, 11:53:26 AM
Montana as 2 senators and only one representative.  It's the first time I've seem Montana go all Republican.  The Democratic Senator lost by a hair.  It was something like 49.9% to 49.2%.  Republicans losing the House didn't surprise me.  The Congress usually drifts in a direction to oppose a sitting president.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I know of none off the top of my head.  Life goes on.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 07, 2018, 12:02:29 PM
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Right? So was I. I woke up at 7 smt in the morning, and found my phone in the dark to check,lol. I couldn't wait to turn on the comp. And shouted at mom from bed. :) We got up and watched the news.

It affected my whole day to be honest. I went out and made some shopping, which I needed but I couldn't find it in me for a few days now. Walked around, ate American fast food to celebrate. :p
I was braced for a glum next two years.  But was pleasantly surprised (hasn't happened for quite some time with politics)--it does make today much brighter.  Hope I'm not just setting myself up for more disappointments in the future. :)  Another surprise--many, many more women winning seats, which I take as another good sign.  So, Shoe, happy day!!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2018, 12:34:55 PM
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Montana as 2 senators and only one representative.  It's the first time I've seem Montana go all Republican.  The Democratic Senator lost by a hair.  It was something like 49.9% to 49.2%.  Republicans losing the House didn't surprise me.  The Congress usually drifts in a direction to oppose a sitting president.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I know of none off the top of my head.  Life goes on.

"It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones." -Calvin Coolidge

This is why a divided Congress is a good thing.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2018, 12:51:56 PM
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I was braced for a glum next two years.  But was pleasantly surprised (hasn't happened for quite some time with politics)--it does make today much brighter.  Hope I'm not just setting myself up for more disappointments in the future. :)  Another surprise--many, many more women winning seats, which I take as another good sign.  So, Shoe, happy day!!

Happy day, sweety. Hugs. :)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 07, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
I look forward to his book Mein Kampf mit der Vernunft.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2018, 01:15:30 PM
I know I'm suppose to be excited, but...

Republicans GAINED three seats in the Senate. They elected, in multiple states, representatives who are more inline with Trumpian ideology than against it. It just seems like those partisan lines are getting thicker and thicker, and the Republicans view this as a victory, even if they lost the House.

This was an election that was suppose to be stacked against the Republicans, and they came out on top... and not just that, the Republican party has shifted further inline with Trumpism than against it.

That said... Colorado elected an openly gay, Jewish progressive and I have been looking at moving to Colorado so... that's pretty dope. And a Somali-Muslim woman, and a Palestinian woman (as well as an Iranian-American in Florida and an Afghani-American)... as well as the two first Native American representatives, one in my home state, won. As a whole, the Democratic Party shifted to actually represent Democrats' demographics, and that is amazing... but it still seems America as a whole has not embraced that and it's still a country for, of and by old white people.


All I really see is that the government now even more accurately represents just how divided the country is, and I don't think that partisanship is a good thing.


Edit: Of course, I also live in a State that, even if it was just by a whisker, chose blatant, expressed bigotry and hatred over a candidate who literally visited left, right, and middle of the political spectrum and of the State and promised to work for everyone, regardless of their political orientation.... so I am living right in the heart of American partisanship it seems and that probably skews my outlook a bit.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 07, 2018, 01:19:22 PM
This will certainly make for an interesting next couple of years. The Republicans will not roll over and play dead, you can be sure of that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 07, 2018, 01:45:50 PM
I hope we can finally stop hearing about the "caravan" from Trump, now that the elections are done.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2018, 02:37:28 PM
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I know I'm suppose to be excited, but...

Republicans GAINED three seats in the Senate. They elected, in multiple states, representatives who are more inline with Trumpian ideology than against it. It just seems like those partisan lines are getting thicker and thicker, and the Republicans view this as a victory, even if they lost the House.

This was an election that was suppose to be stacked against the Republicans, and they came out on top... and not just that, the Republican party has shifted further inline with Trumpism than against it.

You are right. Do you know why the first thing I did in the morning was to check American midterm elections? It's not because I was curious or wanted to be informed. Or not because I love it, almost as much as I love to blame it for evereything in the world. It's because what happens in the US, what comes between a monkey's lips, determines the price of food I can afford daily. And the point we arrived over here is so dark, at this point I am so fucking exhausted, I am happy seeing some sort of a change, even the slightest. Some sort of a fight.

And this one turned out OK. Much better than I expected honestly. And he is afraid, I don't care who says what. I know him, we have one here. And I love that. 

He is going to get the second term. In my opinion. World has seen much worse, sweety. You know that. For now, that is. It's exactly like in that video Unbeliever posted and Munch called ageist, and apparently nobody took seriously,lol. We are quite a few generations of whiners, not doers. And we'll get what we deserve.       
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2018, 07:39:04 PM
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I hope we can finally stop hearing about the "caravan" from Trump, now that the elections are done.

Soros planned it, but Soros is a fellow billionaire.

Now we need World War III and a draft.  Just rid ourselves of Millennials?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 08, 2018, 06:59:39 PM
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Trump must be crapping himself after the election. 2nd term looking less and less likely... Thankfully!
Well, that remains to be seen.  The results were closer than the polling indicated they would be.  What remains to be seen is whether there's a fault in the way polling is done (unlikely but not impossible -- it's not a hard science like physics or chemistry, but neither is it bullshit like astrology), or whether Trumpsters are either refusing to answer or lying to pollsters, just as a matter of fucking with "the system", or whether there's been skulduggery with voting machines.

I am inclined to thinking most of it is Trumpsters refusing, or screwing with, pollsters — with just a soupçon of deliberately screwing over Democratic strongholds, you know, just happening to forget to send the power cords along with the machines (only to polling places in mostly Democratic areas, isn't it funny how that works out) and selectively purging voter rolls (https://www.wired.com/story/georgia-voting-machine-issues-heighten-scrutiny-brian-kemp/) or posting signs that read "Don't vote for Democrats on Tuesday and sing 'Oh how I love Jesus' on Sunday" in churches serving as polling places (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/11/06/elections-2018-florida-church-discourages-voting-democrats/1911606002/).

FWIW, I don't think churches should be used as polling places.  The poll workers at my local are excellent, but there's some creepy past pastor worship going on in there — seriously, the paintings of the previous pastors are bigger than the crucifixes, and all of them are painted in exactly the same pose.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2018, 07:14:49 PM
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I look forward to his book Mein Kampf mit der Vernunft.

Is that you, Chancellor Merkel?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 02:16:10 AM
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Maybe.  I dred elections now.  Someone will be disappointed.  Will they start a civil war?  Democrats do.  Just one step closer to elections being banned, replaced by dictatorship.  And yes, you are partisan ... as are most other people.  I am not in this sense, I hate inhumanity, which seems to be brought to the fore by politics.  The center cannot hold, as long as the wings find it profitable to divide and disintegrate the US.

The center has not held.  We are in a partisan era, mostly by Republicans moving farther to the Right each election cycle.  As far as I can tell, the Democrats are pretty much where they were 40 years ago.

The idea that just because the parties are farther apart shows they are both moving away from "center" is a false equivalency.  If I stay where I am standing and another person moves farther away, that doesn't mean that I moved.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2018, 02:52:56 AM
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The center has not held.  We are in a partisan era, mostly by Republicans moving farther to the Right each election cycle.  As far as I can tell, the Democrats are pretty much where they were 40 years ago.

The idea that just because the parties are farther apart shows they are both moving away from "center" is a false equivalency.  If I stay where I am standing and another person moves farther away, that doesn't mean that I moved.

Hm  ... 40 years ago they were into "why did McGovern lose".  How did you turn out on the 8values poll some of us took awhile back?  Anarchist?  Bloodthirsty Revolutionary?  Bloodthirsty Reactionary?  Just kidding.  Most people here who did, and who admitted their results, were moderate to hard Left.

It isn't just about the Republicans.  They are 1/3 of the electorate.  The problem for both parties is they have lost the middle 1/3.  I saw nothing partisan I wanted to support 2 years ago, and also this election.  DNC and RNC continue to play with the band on the USA Titanic.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2018, 04:46:01 AM
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The center has not held.  We are in a partisan era, mostly by Republicans moving farther to the Right each election cycle.  As far as I can tell, the Democrats are pretty much where they were 40 years ago.

The idea that just because the parties are farther apart shows they are both moving away from "center" is a false equivalency.  If I stay where I am standing and another person moves farther away, that doesn't mean that I moved.
I doubt that voters change their values much.  Moving to the right happens at the decision making level, and has little to do with voters.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 07:01:31 AM
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Hm  ... 40 years ago they were into "why did McGovern lose".  How did you turn out on the 8values poll some of us took awhile back?  Anarchist?  Bloodthirsty Revolutionary?  Bloodthirsty Reactionary?  Just kidding.  Most people here who did, and who admitted their results, were moderate to hard Left.

It isn't just about the Republicans.  They are 1/3 of the electorate.  The problem for both parties is they have lost the middle 1/3.  I saw nothing partisan I wanted to support 2 years ago, and also this election.  DNC and RNC continue to play with the band on the USA Titanic.

I came out on the survey right on Bernie Sanders' forehead.  I'm dead-enter Libertarian/Left.  But that's my personal view for an idealized universe of people just like me.  Since the world is (sadly) not all "just like me", I think some accomodations have to be made. 

Let's just say that if Trump had a fatal heart attack, I wouldn't mourn much...

I would like to think of myself as an independent voter.  But every time I have to make a choice, I end up with a Democrat.  If Republicans weren't so damn MEAN and anti all-people-vote all the time, I would consider them more.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2018, 12:54:10 PM
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I came out on the survey right on Bernie Sanders' forehead.  I'm dead-enter Libertarian/Left.  But that's my personal view for an idealized universe of people just like me.  Since the world is (sadly) not all "just like me", I think some accomodations have to be made. 

Let's just say that if Trump had a fatal heart attack, I wouldn't mourn much...

I would like to think of myself as an independent voter.  But every time I have to make a choice, I end up with a Democrat.  If Republicans weren't so damn MEAN and anti all-people-vote all the time, I would consider them more.

Sort of answered the question.  Nothing wrong with the answer.  I wouldn't mind if all the D and R party officials dropped dead.  Myself .. I would end up with an independent candidate each time.  I can no longer consider either D or R, as first choice, ever again.  They have burned their bridges.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
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Sort of answered the question.  Nothing wrong with the answer.  I wouldn't mind if all the D and R party officials dropped dead.  Myself .. I would end up with an independent candidate each time.  I can no longer consider either D or R, as first choice, ever again.  They have burned their bridges.

Name the Independent candidates (non R or D) you have actually voted for.

I voted for Anderson in 1980.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2018, 01:05:47 PM
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Name the Independent candidates (non R or D) you have actually voted for.

I voted for Anderson in 1980.

You are older than me .. so not Cotton Mather?

No national office.  State office gives you my location.  It is enough to say I was surprised how many Independents filed.  I voted Independent for both Governor and Lt Governor for example.

In the past I wouldn't vote independent, that has only happened in 2008 and on.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 01:24:01 PM
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You are older than me .. so not Cotton Mather?

No national office.  State office gives you my location.  It is enough to say I was surprised how many Independents filed.  I voted Independent for both Governor and Lt Governor for example.

In the past I wouldn't vote independent, that has only happened in 2008 and on.

On might wonder about Mather's Remarkable Providences...

Are you from Maine?  NH?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2018, 01:26:10 PM
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On might wonder about Mather's Remarkable Providences...

Are you from Maine?  NH?

I know a Mr Main ... but I don't know which state he is from.  He is in charge of military/civilian training in our unit.

Never got closer than Kennedy International.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
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I know a Mr Main ... but I don't know which state he is from.  He is in charge of military/civilian training in our unit.

Never got closer than Kennedy International.

The State you are in is the state you are in.  I don't really care.

Dropped Cotton like a rock, didn't you?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 09, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
Trump's trying to remove the cataracts from the eyes of Justice. He doesn't just believe he's above the law, he believes that, for him, no law exists.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 09, 2018, 04:29:20 PM
Wow, I just found out that Matt Whitaker, the acting attorney general, believes judges should have a "biblical view of justice"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/08/matthew-whitaker-acting-attorney-general-judges-christian

“Because natural law is often used from the eye of the beholder, if you will,” Whitaker said. “I’d like to see things like their world view. What informs them? How have they lived their life? Are they people of faith? Do they have a biblical view of justice? Which I think is very important.”

“What I know is that as long as they have that worldview, that they’ll be a good judge. And if they have a secular worldview, that ‘this is all we have here on Earth’, then I’m going to be very concerned about how they judge.”

I still think the right is trying to turn America into a theocracy, and this is just one step more in that direction.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2018, 06:21:57 PM
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Trump's trying to remove the cataracts from the eyes of Justice. He doesn't just believe he's above the law, he believes that, for him, no law exists.

The law has to be blind.  It is written by politicians.

You know the Guardian is a communist rag, right?

I like the judges Hitler used after the 1944 assassination attempt.  They were certainly godless, unless you count Hitler as deity.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 10, 2018, 11:16:15 AM
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I still think the right is trying to turn America into a theocracy, and this is just one step more in that direction.
The Talebangelical wing of the GOP is pushing that way.  And the profit über alles wing doesn't care as long as they can make a buck from it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 10, 2018, 11:17:11 AM
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Let's just say that if Trump had a fatal heart attack, I wouldn't mourn much...
I can give you two words that would make you mourn just a little: President Pence.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2018, 12:47:23 PM
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Trump's trying to remove the cataracts from the eyes of Justice. He doesn't just believe he's above the law, he believes that, for him, no law exists.

Just like Nixon and Clinton.  Civil War 2.0 now!  Turn the internet over to China, to insure patriotism by algorithm.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2018, 12:49:11 PM
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The Talebangelical wing of the GOP is pushing that way.  And the profit über alles wing doesn't care as long as they can make a buck from it.

Yep, in some people's universe, Pat Robertson became President in 1988.  Why are all the parallel universes, dystopias?

If you hate money, give all you have away to the nearest atheist shelter.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 07:38:08 AM
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I can give you two words that would make you mourn just a little: President Pence.

Let's consider Trump as a gibbering idiot orangutan and Pence as the mildly annoying web-footed wanna-be duck.  Give me Pence.  He would be chewed into mincemeat.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Mike Cl on November 14, 2018, 08:55:28 AM
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Let's consider Trump as a gibbering idiot orangutan and Pence as the mildly annoying web-footed wanna-be duck.  Give me Pence.  He would be chewed into mincemeat.
To consider trump as 'a gibbering idiot orangutan' is a disservice to the orangutan and not accurate.  Trump has a plan and it has worked, as far as he is concerned, very very well.  His goal is to amass as much wealth for he and his clan as he can.  He cares nothing for this country; only in keeping his core happy so he can stay in power longer.  He is the king of chaos and he uses it very well.  He knows what he wants and has effectively thrown up a smoke screen of chaos that allows him to do his stuff in the background.  The only kink so far has been this election.  My only hope is that he loses enough of his base that he is finally toppled from power.  But I still think he would win re-election again if he were to run today.  My country is more stupid and nationalistic than I had ever imagined.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 09:09:12 AM
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To consider trump as 'a gibbering idiot orangutan' is a disservice to the orangutan and not accurate.  Trump has a plan and it has worked, as far as he is concerned, very very well.  His goal is to amass as much wealth for he and his clan as he can.  He cares nothing for this country; only in keeping his core happy so he can stay in power longer.  He is the king of chaos and he uses it very well.  He knows what he wants and has effectively thrown up a smoke screen of chaos that allows him to do his stuff in the background.  The only kink so far has been this election.  My only hope is that he loses enough of his base that he is finally toppled from power.  But I still think he would win re-election again if he were to run today.  My country is more stupid and nationalistic than I had ever imagined.

My apologies to the orang-u-tan.  The hair confused me.  The orang-u-tan has a much more lively expression in the eyes, a reasonably developed sense of neighborliness, and doesn't bother anyone.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on November 14, 2018, 09:53:15 AM
TDS 24/7. Whatever gets you to sleep at nights.

Only 6 years to go.

BTW, Hillary Clinton is thinking to run 2020 for president. Don't let her down! Third time lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5VP5nuLVCI
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 14, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
Hillary Clinton can suck dick
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: pr126 on November 14, 2018, 10:10:03 AM
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Hillary Clinton can suck dick
She has outsourced that task to Monica Lewinsky.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
Hillary Clinton would surely have made a better President them The Donald.  She wouldn't have alienated our allies, would have put honest and mission-oriented people in Secretary positions (as opposed to people abusing the public trust), and certainly would have organized intelligent reactions to Russian and Chinese cyberattacks.

Her marital relations with Bill are irrelevant.  That is between them and not a matter of governance.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 12:58:23 PM
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Hillary Clinton would surely have made a better President them The Donald.  She wouldn't have alienated our allies, would have put honest and mission-oriented people in Secretary positions (as opposed to people abusing the public trust), and certainly would have organized intelligent reactions to Russian and Chinese cyberattacks.

Her marital relations with Bill are irrelevant.  That is between them and not a matter of governance.

Hitler or Stalin would have made a better US President .. since 1960.  This world is coming to and end soon.  The Bilderbergers have decreed it.

And on sex mania and adultery ... try to explain your position to any board of inquiry regarding access to classified information.  I have to say ... JFK did deserve to be deposed ... but I wouldn't have shot his dick off.  Same with Bill Clinton.  The Senate had their chance, and blew off someone ... in the men's room.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 03:10:19 PM
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Hitler or Stalin would have made a better US President .. since 1960.  This world is coming to and end soon.  The Bilderbergers have decreed it.

Please include me in your pre-ascension Will.  I'll be around to collect.  And I will thank you in my non-prayers.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:44:20 PM
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Hillary Clinton can suck dick

CIA says ... you will put the Clintons and the Bushes into glass coffins as your forever dynasties ... ala Beijing and Moscow.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:45:32 PM
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Let's consider Trump as a gibbering idiot orangutan and Pence as the mildly annoying web-footed wanna-be duck.  Give me Pence.  He would be chewed into mincemeat.

Ha ... Pence will put all the gays in a woodchopper ;-(  Don't even think it.  You would like an American Ayatollah ... huh?  How New England of you.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:50:20 PM
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Please include me in your pre-ascension Will.  I'll be around to collect.  And I will thank you in my non-prayers.

Political science classes in hippie land (college) ... rotted your common sense.  You would have access to classified information, and violate every covenant that grants you access, to be more edgy?  Hey look at me, Edward Snowden, before Edward Snowden was even born?  And no, having access to that stuff ... is not a good thing.  Best to not have a job requirement for it, believe me.

Or all you deviants just jealous that you have fewer lovers than ... Wilt Chamberlain?  Neither JFK nor Bill, can even cast a shadow compared to that dick.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:51:12 PM
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Hillary Clinton can suck dick

I suspect that is what drove Bill to be a satyr (male nymphomaniac).  He realized that both of her ends had teeth.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:52:01 PM
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Please include me in your pre-ascension Will.  I'll be around to collect.  And I will thank you in my non-prayers.

Only Republicans leave bequests to self admitted millionaires.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SoldierofFortune on November 14, 2018, 07:56:46 PM
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Ha ... Pence will put all the gays in a woodchopper.  Don't even think it.  You would like an American Ayatollah ... huh?

Ahaha. Netflix are always making propaganda in favour of gays, lesbians, LGBT etc. :D
I think this is a political thing to normalise LGBT...
Besides i must indicate that i don't think beign gay is not normal.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:59:50 PM
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Ahaha. Netflix are always making propaganda in favour of gays, lesbians, LGBT etc. :D
I think this is a political thing to normalise LGBT...
Besides i must indicate that i don't think beign gay is not normal.

There are good gay people, of course.  Even good normies.  I don't have a problem, for example, with psychopathic lesbians ... it is the psychopathic part that worries me, not the lesbian part.

I don't mind if people normalize furries ... just don't expect many people to appreciate your public exhibitionism.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SoldierofFortune on November 14, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
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There are good gay people, of course.  Even good normies.  I don't have a problem, for example, with psychopathic lesbians ... it is the psychopathic part that worries me, not the lesbian part.

I don't mind if people normalize furries ... just don't expect many people to appreciate your public exhibitionism.

If we are living in a society that appreciates free speech, exhibitionism wouldn't be a problem.
But i appreciate that the society in which we live may lead a man that exhibits his thinks openly, to be subjected bad things...
For instance, to freely say i am an atheist in Turkey and -as far as i understand in the USA- can causes one to be subjected public lynch...

whatever. Netflix is a monopolic firm and the scenarists is on the right track to shape the humans' mind...
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 08:16:54 PM
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If we are living in a society that appreciates free speech, exhibitionism wouldn't be a problem.
But i appreciate that the society in which we live may lead a man that exhibits his thinks openly, to be subjected bad things...
For instance, to freely say i am an atheist in Turkey and -as far as i understand in the USA- can causes one to be subjected public lynch...

whatever. Netflix is a monopolic firm and the scenarists is on the right track to shape the humans' mind...

If you want to make love ... to another man's wife, while he watches, but he doesn't like it, in a country that allows crimes of passion ... then you have problems my friend.  There is no free speech, unless you have the money to pay for it.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: SoldierofFortune on November 14, 2018, 08:27:55 PM
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If you want to make love ... to another man's wife, while he watches, but he doesn't like it, in a country that allows crimes of passion ... then you have problems my friend.  There is no free speech, unless you have the money to pay for it.

I was thinking when i was younger the USA was being administired by what the constitution orders...
But the reality is that the people who have the money actually orders, like you rightly indicate.

now i am crying while i am learning more and more about how things are on progress in the world...


Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 08:52:12 PM
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I was thinking when i was younger the USA was being administired by what the constitution orders...
But the reality is that the people who have the money actually orders, like you rightly indicate.

now i am crying while i am learning more and more about how things are on progress in the world...

What doesn't Khashoggi you, makes you stronger.  Be strong.  You can't survive in the jungle without it.

I thought the US was wonderful when I was a child.  Even though I was close in time to WW II (parents and grandparents in it) I didn't hate Germans or Japanese.  I still don't though they did nasty things.  I just wasn't aware how nasty my own country was ... they don't teach that in school.  I am just now getting to the point of forgiving the Americans too.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 15, 2018, 07:17:53 AM
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Let's consider Trump as a gibbering idiot orangutan and Pence as the mildly annoying web-footed wanna-be duck.  Give me Pence.  He would be chewed into mincemeat.
Pence can put his Talebangelical aims into policy without looking like a snarling, childish moron, and has been in legislative and executive government long enough to know how to do it.  He's genuinely the more dangerous of the two, certainly in terms of social policy.  The Orange Disaster Area keeps getting in his own way and picking fights that don't need to be picked and managing to piss off strategic members of his own side; Ayatollah Pence would more likely not do that.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2018, 01:27:54 PM
As much as I fear a continued Trump administration, I think a Pence administration would be far worse in the long run. I'd expect some version of A Handmaid's Tale. Even without a "President Pence," we may still be heading towards a theocracy. Too many influential factions are pushing hard to put Christianity's spokespersons in charge of the government.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2018, 06:54:14 PM
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As much as I fear a continued Trump administration, I think a Pence administration would be far worse in the long run. I'd expect some version of A Handmaid's Tale. Even without a "President Pence," we may still be heading towards a theocracy. Too many influential factions are pushing hard to put Christianity's spokespersons in charge of the government.

First we kill the non-Believers ...
Then we kill the non-Christians ...
Then we kill the non-Catholics ...

Pope is happy.  World is returned to circa 1500.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 16, 2018, 03:59:06 AM
I am watching a piece of news right now. They are mocking his claim that people are voting in disguise. LOOL I didn't know that one. 
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2018, 06:04:38 AM
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I am watching a piece of news right now. They are mocking his claim that people are voting in disguise. LOOL I didn't know that one.

People use disguise all the time.  Make them vote naked ... particularly the pretty ones.  All I get to see are little old ladies.

There are strange things with the voting boxes in Broward Country FL.  Turkey isn't the only place that has crooked elections.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 16, 2018, 12:13:19 PM
NO.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2018, 01:07:44 PM
Looking forward to Trump ending all WH press conferences.  A judge ruled he can't expel a particular reporter, for inappropriate behavior.  He was inappropriate, out of control, even before he "accidentally" touched the aide, when she tried to grab the microphone.  If the President can't pull a press pass ... ban all reporters from the WH.  At least until an Obama judge rules that the President is completely powerless, even in the WH.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 16, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
Wow, those F-35s are really stealthy - even right next to it, you can't see it!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nPm5xjsHKc
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
You are demonstrating just as much ignorance as the President.  Running for office in 2020?  The first stealth planes were in WW II, in Britain and Germany.  Airplanes made with plywood and glue, less metal.  That is what the Spruce Goose of Howard Hughes was all about.  And no, only Harry Potter has a cloak of invisibility.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 16, 2018, 06:35:23 PM
Melania says: be bestial.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2018, 06:44:59 PM
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Melania says: be bestial.

Ms Obama says ... be Michael?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Cavebear on November 17, 2018, 12:01:35 AM
I keep wondering whether keeping Trump as President is better in the long run (to 2020 elections where he might be cast out) vs the damage he can do to our world relationships until then and considering that Pence might win in 2020 if Trump is impeached and convicted.

It is not an easy thing to evaluate.  Trump IS an international embarrassment and diplomatic disaster, but perhaps keeping him in office until 2020 would be better.   
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2018, 12:39:09 AM
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I keep wondering whether keeping Trump as President is better in the long run (to 2020 elections where he might be cast out) vs the damage he can do to our world relationships until then and considering that Pence might win in 2020 if Trump is impeached and convicted.

It is not an easy thing to evaluate.  Trump IS an international embarrassment and diplomatic disaster, but perhaps keeping him in office until 2020 would be better.

Should have made Jimmy Carter President-for-Life.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 17, 2018, 11:42:09 AM
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I keep wondering whether keeping Trump as President is better in the long run (to 2020 elections where he might be cast out) vs the damage he can do to our world relationships until then and considering that Pence might win in 2020 if Trump is impeached and convicted.

It is not an easy thing to evaluate.  Trump IS an international embarrassment and diplomatic disaster, but perhaps keeping him in office until 2020 would be better.
Barring a 'smoking gun' piece of evidence, there's no conviction possible -- and even with that kind of evidence, I expect the Republicans would go out of their way to pretend it didn't exist.  I mean, at this point, it feels like it's only a matter of time before the Orange Disaster Area does shoot a guy on 5th Avenue (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/opinion/trump-midterms-shoot-fifth-avenue.html)... and Congressional Republicans will continue to make excuses for him and look the other way and pretend nothing happened.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 17, 2018, 01:23:47 PM
Actually, I doubt Trump could figure out how to fire a gun, so I think the denizens of 5th Ave. can feel safe.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 17, 2018, 02:02:26 PM
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Actually, I doubt Trump could figure out how to fire a gun, so I think the denizens of 5th Ave. can feel safe.
True.  He's more likely to hire someone to be a ghost-shooter for him, and then claim the credit himself.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Green Bottle on November 18, 2018, 03:01:06 PM
https://youtu.be/KNCJCnHGHKM
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2018, 04:49:11 PM
This is very interesting, with a lot of food for thought:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ZEY_c1e8Q


https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/edward-j-watts/mortal-republic/


Quote
What killed the Roman Republic? It wasn’t plague, external enemies, civil war, or corruption, although all of those things played a role. No, writes Watts (Chair, History/Univ. of California, San Diego; Hypatia: The Life and Legend of an Ancient Philosopher, 2017, etc.), author of the superb The Final Pagan Generation (2015). What killed the Republic was its electorate. “A republic is not an organism,” he writes, meaningfully. “It has no natural life span. It lives or dies solely on the basis of choices made by those in charge of its custody.” That electorate chose to trade the freedoms and responsibilities of representative government for the security of the Pax Augusta, for “they came to believe that freedom from oppression could only exist in a polity controlled by one man.” Watts chronicles the death as one by which the ambitions of would-be rulers, bribes offered and accepted, and votes bought and sold all contributed to the arrival of imperial and totalitarian rule. The seeds of destruction had been scattered long before the fact. As the author writes, for instance, even Rome at its height was no stranger to scandals, in one case requiring the unheard-of executions of three Vestal Virgins whose behavior had not, in fact, been appropriately virginal. Still, better angels often spoke, as when Pompey and Crassus, political foes on the brink of civil war, agreed to follow the rules such that “the most powerful men in the Roman state clearly specified that they trusted the system to protect them from their rivals and to allow them to compete fairly within the rules it set." Given that mistrust of institutions is a key ingredient in the collapse of republican rule, as we are witnessing daily, the lesson is pointed.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2018, 06:07:49 PM
Quote
Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter David Cay Johnston may know Donald Trump better than any other working journalist, having first profiled the forty-fifth president in 1988 and tracked him ever since. He was the first to write about a potential Trump presidency when Trump announced his campaign in June 2015, and we turn to him now for a comprehensive examination of the first one hundred days of Donald Trump’s presidency in his book 'It’s Even Worse Than You Think: What the Trump Administration Is Doing to America'. He provides unique insight about the actions the new administration is quietly approving without drawing the attention of the Washington press corps, and examines phenomena the mainstream press stopped covering years ago. Join Johnston for a deep exposition of the workings of federal government agencies as they affect the lives of all Americans: from our wallets, to our health care, to our safety.

David Cay Johnston is a journalist, author, and winner of the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for Beat Reporting. He has chronicled Donald Trump’s conduct in his books: Temples of Chance and the New York Times bestseller The Making of Donald Trump. He has been called “One of America’s most important journalists” by The Washington Monthly, and he has acted as an uncredited source of documents and insight for major campaign reports by The Washington Post, The New York Times, Bloomberg, and network television.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azck1jY79cA


It's good to hear people that really know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2018, 07:29:54 PM
But does he consider Barak or Hillary to be gods?  That would pretty much discount anything he has to say to me.  You are not a true Democrat unless you believe in the apotheosis of DNC vermin.  So atheists are not true Democrats.

And the video is way too long.  Watched the first minute only.  Tired after work.

Besides, Pence is clearly the "acting" President ... like Cheney.  Trump is the actor President like George W.
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Hydra009 on November 21, 2018, 12:48:44 AM
Pentagon says troops at US border to cost about $210 million (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-says-troops-at-us-border-to-cost-about-210-million/2018/11/20/b8bbd0c6-ed12-11e8-8b47-bd0975fd6199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.559d131cd5d8)

I'm starting to sympathize more and more with conservative outrage at wasteful federal spending.  The problem is I don't think they truly understand what's wasteful and what's not - they seem particularly blind to wasteful spending when a "good, conservative guy" is in office.

Quote
On Tuesday, Trump said he was sure the troops are happy to be on the border mission, even though it means being away from home over Thanksgiving.
(https://i.imgur.com/8KTtscB.jpg?fb)
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 21, 2018, 04:37:18 AM
Nuking Mexico is cheaper ... so why don't you penny pinchers advocate that?  Politician in Cali suggested we use nuke against legal gun owners in the US!

Do you know that the military costs you ...

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/

It isn't cheap.  Cheapskates and pacifists unite!
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: trdsf on November 23, 2018, 04:05:56 PM
Well, we all know how much Republicans hate government business being conducted over private emails, right?

Let's all wait for them to start chanting "Lock her up!" again (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ivanka-trump-used-a-personal-email-account-to-send-hundreds-of-emails-about-government-business-last-year/2018/11/19/6515d1e0-e7a1-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3e7c14cedbe0).

While you're at it, lock him up too (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/24/jared-kushner-private-email-white-house-243071).

And while we can't lock him up for this (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/us/politics/trump-phone-security.html), just how fucking stupid does he have to be before Republicans admit he's fucking stupid?
Title: Re: Impeach Trump????
Post by: Baruch on November 23, 2018, 05:56:29 PM
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Well, we all know how much Republicans hate government business being conducted over private emails, right?

Let's all wait for them to start chanting "Lock her up!" again (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ivanka-trump-used-a-personal-email-account-to-send-hundreds-of-emails-about-government-business-last-year/2018/11/19/6515d1e0-e7a1-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3e7c14cedbe0).

While you're at it, lock him up too (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/24/jared-kushner-private-email-white-house-243071).

And while we can't lock him up for this (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/us/politics/trump-phone-security.html), just how fucking stupid does he have to be before Republicans admit he's fucking stupid?

I agree, arrest anyone currently or formerly a government official who is using a private email system to circumvent the law (you must make all emails public property (to National Archives) if you are an Federal official.

https://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news/court-rules-foia-can-apply-private-email-accounts

Its the law.  How about arresting Obama/Hillary etc for subverting the election process in 2016?  That is even more serious than Watergate.  That and colluding with Russia on Uranium One and god knows h