Why is Trump attacking the NFL? As he has stated time and again, he loves revenge. And for him, it is not the tit-for-tat type; he want 10 times the damage done to them as what he precised as done to him. So, why in this case?
As the Washington Post put it:
In 1986, Trump convinced his fellow USFL owners to launch what amounted to a hostile takeover attempt: They moved the league’s schedule to the fall to compete directly with the NFL, then sued the NFL, alleging antitrust violations. Trump predicted to his fellow USFL owners that the lawsuit would result in a massive judgment â€" hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in damages from the NFL â€" that would force the NFL to offer to merge the leagues.
In the trial, NFL attorneys framed their case around Trump, arguing that the lawsuit was a charade orchestrated by Trump as a way to get into the NFL on the cheap. The argument worked.
“I thought he was extremely arrogant, and I thought that he was obviously trying to play the game,†juror Patricia Sibilia recalled in a telephone interview last year. “He wanted an NFL franchise. . . . The USFL was a cheap way in.â€
The jury ruled that the NFL had violated antitrust law but concluded that the USFL’s financial struggles were of its own making and awarded only $1 in damages. In antitrust cases, damages are tripled, so Trump’s legal assault on the NFL won a grand total of $3.
The USFL folded.
“Only Donald Trump could somehow turn the behemoth of the NFL into an underdog,†said Michael Tollin, director of the ESPN documentary “Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?â€
Trump lost an estimated $22 million on the Generals. The Cowboys team â€" which Trump said he considered buying in 1983 but did not because you could succeed only “laterally†in the NFL â€" was sold in 1989 to Jerry Jones for $140 million. According to Forbes, the team, still owned by Jones, is now worth an estimated $4.8 billion, making it the world’s most valuable sports franchise.
After the USFL folded, Trump’s name arose periodically in discussions about NFL ownership. In 1988, he made a bid for the New England Patriots but ultimately bowed out. In 2014, Trump said he offered $1 billion for the Buffalo Bills, but he was bested by a $1.4 billion offer.
Trump is not complicated. He is simply what he has always been. An evil, evil creature.
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?
No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...
Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 30, 2017, 09:27:37 PM
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?
No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...
I have no doubt you are wrong. And I have steered you in the right direction.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2017, 09:46:28 PM
I have no doubt you are wrong. And I have steered you in the right direction.
Thanks Dad....
Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 30, 2017, 10:17:36 PM
Thanks Dad....
You're welcome, son. Any time you have questions, don't hesitate to ask--you know I always have time for you.....................
well Drew if you are one of those people that doesnt understand that freedom of religion does not mean you get to choose any religion as long as its Christian. If you dont know it means that you can also choose to be a Muslim or a Satanist, maybe this is a bridge too far for you.
There are times when people refuse to join the army are being patriotic (unjustified war like Vietnam). There are also times when not standing up to salute the flag is also being patriotic (it is a vote of no confidence in the current governments actions. If you think that its a disrespect to the country to not stand for the Star Spangled Banner you have been indoctrinated with some belief system; probably of religious origin; which not every one has been indoctrinated with).
If you want to try to say someone who doesnt salute the flag is not patriotic be warned that you are on the path that led to the Nazi take-over of Germany.
Wondering where the, "Huuuurrrr! Special snowflakes!" Brigade has been through this whole controversy... oddly silent about a bunch of people losing their shit because someone disagreed with them...
Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 30, 2017, 09:27:37 PM
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?
No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...
Trump doesn't care a tinker's dam about NFL players kneeling to support "Black Lives Matter".
He only cares are driving his mid-country supporters to a frenzy of artificial national honor, unreal patriotism, and to hatred toward other nations. Minor things like NFL players are just fodder for his distraction from more serious events like enriching himself and his like through tax changes to come...
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
As the Washington Post put it:
In 1986, Trump convinced his fellow USFL owners to launch what amounted to a hostile takeover attempt: They moved the league’s schedule to the fall to compete directly with the NFL, then sued the NFL, alleging antitrust violations. Trump predicted to his fellow USFL owners that the lawsuit would result in a massive judgment â€" hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in damages from the NFL â€" that would force the NFL to offer to merge the leagues.
The owners voted 12-2 to pursue this avenue.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
The jury ruled that the NFL had violated antitrust law but concluded that the USFL’s financial struggles were of its own making and awarded only $1 in damages. In antitrust cases, damages are tripled, so Trump’s legal assault on the NFL won a grand total of $3.
The USFL folded.
So there was an antitrust issue?? The foundation of the legal case was TRUE.
Quote from: articleShe said that three of the six jurors had favored the NFL and that three others wanted to award damages as high as $300 million to the USFL. But they were so boggled by the task at hand, Sanchez said, that they decided on the $1 amount, believing that Judge Peter K. Leisure would understand that as a signal for him to decide the damage award. "I felt we had to put our faith in the court," she said.
An article on the case from 1986, rather than wapo re-write:
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/sports/sp-18643_1_jury-finds-nfl-guiltyBut I do not believe Trumps statements on the players kneeling during the anthem has anything to do with the above. I think were Trump an NFL owner he would require his players to stand during the anthem. I think Trump genuinely finds this taking a knee during the anthem disrespectful.
More on NFL policy:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/09/25/what-nfl-rule-book-actually-says-national-anthem/699886001/While not a fan of Kapernick in general, I have struggled with the question of Does he have a free speech right? He is an employee, not a paying ticket holder. He had signed the contract which in 2016, when he started his 'protest', was obligated by policy to follow protocol at the anthem which he did not do. As an employee, I am required to follow policies at my workplace and repeated violations of policy can result in termination. Many of us are required by 'policy' to avoid topics such as politics to ensure a peaceful, cooperative work environment.
Typically a QB is considered the leader of the team. In real life, I dont want to hear my supervisor/manager/lead person spewing out his/her politics when I am on the job. I dont want to hear the cashier at walmart spewing out their discontent with the police in a different city/state/etc when I am paying for my stuff, so I cannot disagree with the NFL policy on what players are expected to do on the field wearing the companies uniforms. Thats the way it is for the majority of working slobs in the USA; working people who are also the paying ticket holders at these various stadiums that they helped fund, willingly or not.
This is racism cloaked under the bravado of patriotism. If it was a bunch of white guys protesting blacks getting food-stamps why the stadiums would spend weeks cleaning up the split beer from all the bending over.
Quote from: chill98 on October 01, 2017, 09:44:56 AM
The owners voted 12-2 to pursue this avenue.
So there was an antitrust issue?? The foundation of the legal case was TRUE.
An article on the case from 1986, rather than wapo re-write:
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/sports/sp-18643_1_jury-finds-nfl-guilty
But I do not believe Trumps statements on the players kneeling during the anthem has anything to do with the above. I think were Trump an NFL owner he would require his players to stand during the anthem. I think Trump genuinely finds this taking a knee during the anthem disrespectful.
More on NFL policy:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/09/25/what-nfl-rule-book-actually-says-national-anthem/699886001/
While not a fan of Kapernick in general, I have struggled with the question of Does he have a free speech right? He is an employee, not a paying ticket holder. He had signed the contract which in 2016, when he started his 'protest', was obligated by policy to follow protocol at the anthem which he did not do. As an employee, I am required to follow policies at my workplace and repeated violations of policy can result in termination. Many of us are required by 'policy' to avoid topics such as politics to ensure a peaceful, cooperative work environment.
Typically a QB is considered the leader of the team. In real life, I dont want to hear my supervisor/manager/lead person spewing out his/her politics when I am on the job. I dont want to hear the cashier at walmart spewing out their discontent with the police in a different city/state/etc when I am paying for my stuff, so I cannot disagree with the NFL policy on what players are expected to do on the field wearing the companies uniforms. Thats the way it is for the majority of working slobs in the USA; working people who are also the paying ticket holders at these various stadiums that they helped fund, willingly or not.
As fas as NFL players go using games to make political stements, I'm not on their side. If you pay money to watch entertainers perform (and athletes are entertainers), that is not a free speech forum.
You can stand in the public square and state your views, you can write a letter to the newspaper, you can write a book, you can go on a talk show . That's free speech.
But using a paid event is wrong. You shouldn't abuse a captive audience.
Quote from: aitm on October 01, 2017, 10:23:09 AM
This is racism cloaked under the bravado of patriotism. If it was a bunch of white guys protesting blacks getting food-stamps why the stadiums would spend weeks cleaning up the split beer from all the bending over.
Are we agreeing or disagreeing? I can't really tell.
I personally don't have a problem with it. At all. If it was ignored, the whole thing would be....ignored. But the media, blew it up and all of a sudden white people who make on average 60,000 a year are paying 100+ for a ticket get pissed that black men making millions should be protesting about anything.
And it is certainly not about the flag, that just the excuse. We have had white presidents wearing the flag inside their coat, a clear violation of the flag code, Kid Rock cut a hole in one and pranced about as it was a poncho, Nuget wore one, all against the flag code, but no whitey said a thing about that. How can kneeling be an insult anyway? How come nobody gives a shit about the camerman wandering around? Who gave them exempt status? Or the reporters? Or the people selling beer and crap? Or the stadium security walking around? Nope, just some uppity n*&^$Ws pissing off da white folk and all of a sudden, this turns into false patriot call to action.
Cave bear - "But using a paid event is wrong. You shouldn't abuse a captive audience." You are correct for once ;-) Abusing a captive audience is what all governments do to their citizens ;-(
Aitm - I am not religious about my flag, but Ted Nugent should be burned in effigy, all these POS should be burned in effigy. And of course the Media play this up ... we are in the second McCarthyite period of insanity, are we not? And yes, all Democrats are pedohiles, I read it on the Internet somewhere ;-(
Quote from: fencerider on September 30, 2017, 10:53:33 PM
well Drew if you are one of those people that doesnt understand that freedom of religion does not mean you get to choose any religion as long as its Christian. If you dont know it means that you can also choose to be a Muslim or a Satanist, maybe this is a bridge too far for you.
There are times when people refuse to join the army are being patriotic (unjustified war like Vietnam). There are also times when not standing up to salute the flag is also being patriotic (it is a vote of no confidence in the current governments actions. If you think that its a disrespect to the country to not stand for the Star Spangled Banner you have been indoctrinated with some belief system; probably of religious origin; which not every one has been indoctrinated with).
If you want to try to say someone who doesnt salute the flag is not patriotic be warned that you are on the path that led to the Nazi take-over of Germany.
But I like Nazis. They were only bad, because they were Gentile, not Jewish. Kosher Nazis would be perfect in all they do. Just ask Likud in Israel.
Quote from: aitm on October 01, 2017, 10:42:54 AM
I personally don't have a problem with it. At all. If it was ignored, the whole thing would be....ignored. But the media, blew it up and all of a sudden white people who make on average 60,000 a year are paying 100+ for a ticket get pissed that black men making millions should be protesting about anything.
And it is certainly not about the flag, that just the excuse. We have had white presidents wearing the flag inside their coat, a clear violation of the flag code, Kid Rock cut a hole in one and pranced about as it was a poncho, Nuget wore one, all against the flag code, but no whitey said a thing about that. How can kneeling be an insult anyway? How come nobody gives a shit about the camerman wandering around? Who gave them exempt status? Or the reporters? Or the people selling beer and crap? Or the stadium security walking around? Nope, just some uppity n*&^$Ws pissing off da white folk and all of a sudden, this turns into false patriot call to action.
You make a good point. I could make an argument that entertainers can get away with what the audience expects.
But I will surrender the argument.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 10:27:03 AM
But using a paid event is wrong. You shouldn't abuse a captive audience.
The inclusion of the anthem for a sporting event is absurd in my opinion. A blatant overture to install national pride and identity after Vietnam gave many of us a great suspicion of the government and of using the flag for nefarious reasons. Apparently, it worked. Now it is getting use to recreate a division that was hopefully a few more generations from disappearing, right back to square one.
Quote from: aitm on October 01, 2017, 11:02:35 AM
The inclusion of the anthem for a sporting event is absurd in my opinion. A blatant overture to install national pride and identity after Vietnam gave many of us a great suspicion of the government and of using the flag for nefarious reasons. Apparently, it worked. Now it is getting use to recreate a division that was hopefully a few more generations from disappearing, right back to square one.
Not to be a nefarious nebob of negativism, but the anthem was first played at the 1918 baseball world series and because of the spontaneous response among the fans, it caught on...
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 10:27:03 AM
As fas as NFL players go using games to make political stements, I'm not on their side. If you pay money to watch entertainers perform (and athletes are entertainers), that is not a free speech forum.
You can stand in the public square and state your views, you can write a letter to the newspaper, you can write a book, you can go on a talk show . That's free speech.
But using a paid event is wrong. You shouldn't abuse a captive audience.
In some respect I may agree. Except the NFL has been bought by the military and govt. for some time now. Prior to 2009, the NFL teams stayed in the locker rooms until after the national anthem. Then, the NFL accepted money to have the teams pay homage to the song and flag. Paid for patriotism. For me, that opens the NFL to all kinds of protests. The govt and military wanted to improve enlistment rate; turning the flag into a symbol of the military was one way to do that. I dislike the flag being a symbol of anything more than freedom; and how much more patriotic can one get than protesting? Our country was founded in revolution and protest.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2017, 11:46:16 AM
In some respect I may agree. Except the NFL has been bought by the military and govt. for some time now. Prior to 2009, the NFL teams stayed in the locker rooms until after the national anthem. Then, the NFL accepted money to have the teams pay homage to the song and flag. Paid for patriotism. For me, that opens the NFL to all kinds of protests. The govt and military wanted to improve enlistment rate; turning the flag into a symbol of the military was one way to do that. I dislike the flag being a symbol of anything more than freedom; and how much more patriotic can one get than protesting? Our country was founded in revolution and protest.
I did not know that. I don't generally watch football, so the past practices escaped my awareness.
I have engaged in protests in my years. But always on my own time and not with forced participants. I support informed protest. Just not when others are FORCED to be involved.
At least they don't force prayer on us during the game. I mean NASCAR does but them's a bunch of red's anyway. I don't even go to high school events, don't know if they still have a prayer or not.
Quote from: aitm on October 01, 2017, 12:09:49 PM
At least they don't force prayer on us during the game. I mean NASCAR does but them's a bunch of red's anyway. I don't even go to high school events, don't know if they still have a prayer or not.
There are a few things I've never done. Never watched an episode of Dallas not even the famous one. And never watched a car race.
Hmm, "few" implies at least 3. OK, never had confetti or gatorade poured over me even when the golf team I was on went 16-0. The only winning team my high school had that year...
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2017, 11:46:16 AM
In some respect I may agree. Except the NFL has been bought by the military and govt. for some time now. Prior to 2009, the NFL teams stayed in the locker rooms until after the national anthem. Then, the NFL accepted money to have the teams pay homage to the song and flag. Paid for patriotism. For me, that opens the NFL to all kinds of protests. The govt and military wanted to improve enlistment rate; turning the flag into a symbol of the military was one way to do that. I dislike the flag being a symbol of anything more than freedom; and how much more patriotic can one get than protesting? Our country was founded in revolution and protest.
Not exactly true:
Quote from: politiFactUntil that year, players in primetime games would remain inside their locker rooms while the anthem was sung, due to timing concerns for the television networks. After 2009, the players in primetime games have been on the field during the anthem, McCarthy said.
But this change only affected primetime games. For all other games -- typically held at 1 p.m. or 4 p.m. Eastern -- players had already been stationed on the field for the national anthem. So the 2009 change simply applied to primetime games the rules that had already been in place for daytime games.
According to Time mag,
QuoteHowever, while the Times referred to the song as the national anthem, that was not technically the case yet. The song was then just an anthem for the U.S. Army and Navy, but it would prove to have legs (even if the Cubs' World Series record would not). "The outpouring of sentiment, enthusiasm, and patriotism at the 1918 World Series went a long way to making the (song) the national anthem,’’
So the song was originally an anthem for military but became the national anthem.
And finally (from Time again)
Quote from: TimeAt the end of the war, after Japan announced it would surrender, NFL Commissioner Elmer Layden called for all of the league's teams to play "The Star-Spangled Banner" at their games, arguing, “The National Anthem should be as much a part of every game as the kick-off. We must not drop it simply because the war is over. We should never forget what it stands for.â€
http://time.com/4955623/history-national-anthem-sports-nfl/
We generally agree about 1918...
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 11:58:06 AM
I did not know that. I don't generally watch football, so the past practices escaped my awareness.
I have engaged in protests in my years. But always on my own time and not with forced participants. I support informed protest. Just not when others are FORCED to be involved.
As far as I'm concerned, the playing to the anthem is forced on me. I have never liked doing it; nor in school, either. The NFL protest does not cost us any time or effort. If it offends you don't look at the players. It is about the mildest form of protest I've ever seen. Understand, I am a huge patriot of this country. In the scheme of things, it is a grand country with much going for it. And as a patriot it is incumbent upon me to protest against that which I think my country is wrong about. Protest is how this country came about and protesting has been and should be an honored way of expressing opinion.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 11:27:36 AM
Not to be a nefarious nebob of negativism, but the anthem was first played at the 1918 baseball world series and because of the spontaneous response among the fans, it caught on...
WW I much? Woodrow Wilson was a Nazi. Worse than John Adams.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2017, 11:46:16 AM
In some respect I may agree. Except the NFL has been bought by the military and govt. for some time now. Prior to 2009, the NFL teams stayed in the locker rooms until after the national anthem. Then, the NFL accepted money to have the teams pay homage to the song and flag. Paid for patriotism. For me, that opens the NFL to all kinds of protests. The govt and military wanted to improve enlistment rate; turning the flag into a symbol of the military was one way to do that. I dislike the flag being a symbol of anything more than freedom; and how much more patriotic can one get than protesting? Our country was founded in revolution and protest.
Said by a Democrat ... got Jefferson Davis? ... got William Jefferson Clinton? Go protest, you Leninist ;-))
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 12:28:50 PM
There are a few things I've never done. Never watched an episode of Dallas not even the famous one. And never watched a car race.
Hmm, "few" implies at least 3. OK, never had confetti or gatorade poured over me even when the golf team I was on went 16-0. The only winning team my high school had that year...
You are un-American ;-) What spaceship marooned you here? Are you from France?
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2017, 02:35:00 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the playing to the anthem is forced on me. I have never liked doing it; nor in school, either. The NFL protest does not cost us any time or effort. If it offends you don't look at the players. It is about the mildest form of protest I've ever seen. Understand, I am a huge patriot of this country. In the scheme of things, it is a grand country with much going for it. And as a patriot it is incumbent upon me to protest against that which I think my country is wrong about. Protest is how this country came about and protesting has been and should be an honored way of expressing opinion.
See, see ... as a Democrat you should prefer "Dixie" ... just without the slaves, you liberal Rebel you ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on October 01, 2017, 03:01:25 PM
See, see ... as a Democrat you should prefer "Dixie" ... just without the slaves, you liberal Rebel you ;-)
Your snark should be embarrassing to you.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 04, 2017, 04:09:49 AM
Your snark should be embarrassing to you.
i am shameless. If I were evil, I would kill millions. Fortunately for all of us, I am not evil. I just slept overnight at a Caligula Inn Express.
Quote from: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 09:34:08 PM
i am shameless. If I were evil, I would kill millions. Fortunately for all of us, I am not evil. I just slept overnight at a Caligula Inn Express.
I hope they served free wafflles. With poison ivy syrup.
Interesting perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhborYfWsY
The NFL perhaps wants their own country. Let them have Wake Island. Then leave their privileged asses there. Let them contemplate, what the Americans, outnumbered and without any hope of relief, did to fight the Japanese Navy and Marines.
As it is, the NFL is in the process of reversing their own position, because they realize this SJW shit is bad for business.
I just think they would like it if their kids weren't being gunned down by police in the playground or if their sons weren't being shot while sitting in a car or walking across the street or just running scared. Sounds reasonable to me. What good is all the hoopla, flags and fancy parades if it applies to everyone else but you?
Quote from: aitm on October 10, 2017, 09:09:55 PM
I just think they would like it if their kids weren't being gunned down by police in the playground or if their sons weren't being shot while sitting in a car or walking across the street or just running scared. Sounds reasonable to me. What good is all the hoopla, flags and fancy parades if it applies to everyone else but you?
War is peace. Life is death. Get over the American dream already. If you don't like what police are doing ... don't wine, do something. Go to Police Academy, make a funny cop spoof ...
Quote from: Baruch on October 10, 2017, 09:35:26 PM
War is peace. Life is death. Get over the American dream already. If you don't like what police are doing ... don't wine, do something. Go to Police Academy, make a funny cop spoof ...
And you embarrassing to most people. The routine killing of people of color by police is horrible, wrong, and against everything I think about the rule of law.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 02:02:22 AM
And you embarrassing to most people. The routine killing of people of color by police is horrible, wrong, and against everything I think about the rule of law.
You are SJW then? You think that cops routinely, based on job, not color, go looking to kill Black teens? You have KKK on the brain. The cops know, the real thugs have guns. If Trayvon had been a real thug, Zimmerman would have been jumped by a dozen other Bloods, all heavily armed. Zimmerman's trial would have been unnecessary. Tragedy happens, cops make mistakes. So lets kill all the cops then? There are little old White ladies gunned down by mistake by cops, so why don't we have LOWLM?
And because there's no situation that Asshole can't make worse, is everyone familiar with his threat to take away the NFL's tax breaks if they don't toe his personal line on "patriotism" (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41568978)?
*sigh*
I just can't in good conscience avoid using the word 'fascist' anymore.
Quote from: aitm on October 10, 2017, 09:09:55 PM
I just think they would like it if their kids weren't being gunned down by police in the playground or if their sons weren't being shot while sitting in a car or walking across the street or just running scared. Sounds reasonable to me. What good is all the hoopla, flags and fancy parades if it applies to everyone else but you?
Your right! Kids shouldn't be gunned down at a playground regardless of whos doing the shooting.
https://www.google.com/search?q=playground+shooting
We do have playground shootings and police are very aware of this.
QuoteOne reason for the lack of prosecution and subsequent conviction begins with the Supreme Court’s legal standard for use of lethal force. According to Graham v. Connor, the landmark 1989 case that established the standard, each “use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.†The ruling specifically cautions against judging police too harshly for split-second decisions made in “tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving†situations. All of this gives officers plenty of leeway to explain why their actions were legal.
It is the exact same issue as 'safe spaces' and 'micro-aggression', only in this particular job the systemic priority is on the safety of the state actor (police). Any perceived threat justifies the use of extreme force, which is why juries all over the place, while following the judicial instruction, keep returning not guilty verdicts.
All these juries have been conditioned via many aspects of real life, work, school, trickle down to in their very homes, about not hurting anyones feelings, cant say "I like your hair/dress" because it may be perceived in a way unintended...
So all an officer has to do is say "I felt threatened" and the jury, via real life conditioning and the defense attorney pounding the reality of the police [potential danger in every call], has no choice but return the not guilty verdict.
So the burden is upon the civilian to ensure that an officer cannot perceive a threat, a condition whos bar has been lowered by the SJW's activities in creating 'social justice'. Which is ultimately why Kaepernick is attacking the wrong end of the issue.
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:10:44 AM
You are SJW then? You think that cops routinely, based on job, not color, go looking to kill Black teens? You have KKK on the brain. The cops know, the real thugs have guns. If Trayvon had been a real thug, Zimmerman would have been jumped by a dozen other Bloods, all heavily armed. Zimmerman's trial would have been unnecessary. Tragedy happens, cops make mistakes. So lets kill all the cops then? There are little old White ladies gunned down by mistake by cops, so why don't we have LOWLM?
There are times when you make vague sense. This is not one of those times.
Quote from: trdsf on October 11, 2017, 11:01:34 AM
And because there's no situation that Asshole can't make worse, is everyone familiar with his threat to take away the NFL's tax breaks if they don't toe his personal line on "patriotism" (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41568978)?
*sigh*
I just can't in good conscience avoid using the word 'fascist' anymore.
Outlaw the NFL and even Canadian NFL. Make soccer mandatory!
(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL-teamsn-renamed-cartoon-ben-garrison.jpg)
Quote from: chill98 on October 12, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL-teamsn-renamed-cartoon-ben-garrison.jpg)
Free speech and free actions related to speech can be awkward. But they don't count JUST when they agree with your views. They also count when you don't like them.
Quote from: chill98 on October 12, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL-teamsn-renamed-cartoon-ben-garrison.jpg)
That's funny mainly because out of all the sports in America, football is far-and-away the most utterly regressive and socially backwards there is.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 18, 2017, 02:32:19 AM
That's funny mainly because out of all the sports in America, football is far-and-away the most utterly regressive and socially backwards there is.
I wasn't discussing the sport itself. But yes, it is brutal and militaristic. I prefer baseball myself.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 04:10:39 AM
I wasn't discussing the sport itself. But yes, it is brutal and militaristic. I prefer baseball myself.
I like the way you think!! Go Yankees!
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
I like the way you think!! Go Yankees!
I would not mind if the Yankees regained the title; The Nationals having lost the chance yet again...
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
I like the way you think!! Go Yankees!
Ohhh, and I thought you were a nice person!
:grr: Cleveland got robbed AGAIN...
Quote from: trdsf on October 18, 2017, 01:47:43 PM
Ohhh, and I thought you were a nice person!
:grr: Cleveland got robbed AGAIN...
I agree--Cleveland was the better team. And Houston is the better team--even better than Cleveland--too. But I'm still rooting for the Yanks!
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
I agree--Cleveland was the better team. And Houston is the better team--even better than Cleveland--too. But I'm still rooting for the Yanks!
Watching Ken Burns 'Baseball' right now. Getting past Cobb and to Ruth.
And I grew up rooting for the Yankees in VA in the 60s when they were flat. Well, I was the only kid in my VA school from "north".
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 01:59:06 PM
Watching Ken Burns 'Baseball' right now. Getting past Cobb and to Ruth.
And I grew up rooting for the Yankees in VA in the 60s when they were flat. Well, I was the only kid in my VA school from "north".
I started rooting for the Yankees while in the 5th grade in Alabama. Since I was from Oregon, I was branded a 'Yankee'; so it was natural to root for them. And still do.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 02:05:38 PM
I started rooting for the Yankees while in the 5th grade in Alabama. Since I was from Oregon, I was branded a 'Yankee'; so it was natural to root for them. And still do.
I have to ask. There was a girl in school from GA, and I couldn't understand a WORD she said. My classmates must have thought the same about me. Did you have that same feeling?
Quote from: chill98 on October 12, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
(https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL-teamsn-renamed-cartoon-ben-garrison.jpg)
Wow, you guys live in your own little world, don't ya?
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 18, 2017, 02:24:06 PM
Wow, you guys live in your own little world, don't ya?
Yes, sometimes we get local and detailed But I can expand. I can consider Buddihsts for example.
The debate among monks unfolds in the presence of their teachers, with a very well set rules of procedure for the defender and the questioners. I think it is a bit like listening to rabbinacal jews. The tradition of such debates is traced to the ancient Hindu Orthodoxy in India and this practice slipped into Buddhist orthodoxy in Tibet i(n the eighth century I think). One aspect of debates that intereats me is that defender of a claim seems to havethe onus to prove his point of view on the subject proposed for debate.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
I agree--Cleveland was the better team.
I forgive you.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
And Houston is the better team--even better than Cleveland--too. But I'm still rooting for the Yanks!
...as amended. :D
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 02:10:12 PM
I have to ask. There was a girl in school from GA, and I couldn't understand a WORD she said. My classmates must have thought the same about me. Did you have that same feeling?
In the 5th grade I was in an elementary school that drew its students from the people who worked for a huge Army supply/ammo dump. So, not all had that deep southern drawl. After a bit I could understand them fairly well.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 02:35:47 PM
Yes, sometimes we get local and detailed But I can expand. I can consider Buddihsts for example.
The debate among monks unfolds in the presence of their teachers, with a very well set rules of procedure for the defender and the questioners. I think it is a bit like listening to rabbinacal jews. The tradition of such debates is traced to the ancient Hindu Orthodoxy in India and this practice slipped into Buddhist orthodoxy in Tibet i(n the eighth century I think). One aspect of debates that intereats me is that defender of a claim seems to havethe onus to prove his point of view on the subject proposed for debate.
A dharma duel ... very popular with Tibetans.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 18, 2017, 02:24:06 PM
Wow, you guys live in your own little world, don't ya?
I doubt it, millionaire football stars do.
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
I doubt it, millionaire football stars do.
Top football players are not "millionaires". They are "100 millionaires". I expect a few are into the billionaire level. Pretty good wages for some people who couldn't keep a real job...