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The Lobby => Introductions => Topic started by: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:30:41 AM

Title: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:30:41 AM
I used to post on this forum every day back when I was in college.....must have been 2004-2006-ish? I just stumbled back across this by random--my goodness, I still recognize some of the names! (Hillbilly Atheist, SVZurich....Buckster!)

Anyone know if the archives from way back a million years ago exist somewhere? I mostly want to try to remember what my old name was...or read over my old posts, to see how much I've changed!

But if not, eh, I'll cope. I still have fond memories.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:19:46 AM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:30:41 AM
I used to post on this forum every day back when I was in college.....must have been 2004-2006-ish? I just stumbled back across this by random--my goodness, I still recognize some of the names! (Hillbilly Atheist, SVZurich....Buckster!)

Anyone know if the archives from way back a million years ago exist somewhere? I mostly want to try to remember what my old name was...or read over my old posts, to see how much I've changed!

But if not, eh, I'll cope. I still have fond memories.

No idea about archives.  Ask the Admins.  Are you an atheist?
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 01:46:26 AM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:30:41 AM
I used to post on this forum every day back when I was in college.....must have been 2004-2006-ish? I just stumbled back across this by random--my goodness, I still recognize some of the names! (Hillbilly Atheist, SVZurich....Buckster!)

Anyone know if the archives from way back a million years ago exist somewhere? I mostly want to try to remember what my old name was...or read over my old posts, to see how much I've changed!

But if not, eh, I'll cope. I still have fond memories.
Welcome back. The names you are mentioning are no longer here.

We had at least two major crashes, and could not restore the old AF as you knew it. Lost forever.
Very few members still here from a decade ago.
Reggie has left the forum to a new crew.

This is not the AF as you knew it. Sorry to disappoint.

If I remember, you are from the UK, West country?

Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 01:46:26 AM
Welcome back. The names you are mentioning are no longer here.

We had at least two major crashes, and could not restore the old AF as you knew it. Lost forever.
Very few members still here from a decade ago.
Reggie has left the forum to a new crew.

This is not the AF as you knew it. Sorry to disappoint.

If I remember, you are from the UK, West country?
Bah--that sucks! I was from North Dakota, but now (like most people who grew up in North Dakota) live in Minneapolis.

Oh well. I'm sure seeing the crap 20-year-old me was writing would produce more cringe than is healthy. That's too bad that everyone I knew has left. Todangst was another one--guy taught me SO much stuff here. :)

To answer the previous poster: I don't believe in a personal God or anything, but I'm much much much less militant in my atheism now than I was in my heyday here.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 02:06:37 AM
You can find some of the old members at Rationalresponders forum.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 02:07:35 AM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
Bah--that sucks! I was from North Dakota, but now (like most people who grew up in North Dakota) live in Minneapolis.

Oh well. I'm sure seeing the crap 20-year-old me was writing would produce more cringe than is healthy. That's too bad that everyone I knew has left. Todangst was another one--guy taught me SO much stuff here. :)

To answer the previous poster: I don't believe in a personal God or anything, but I'm much much much less militant in my atheism now than I was in my heyday here.

Too bad.  I understand though,  I was on an atheist site in the 90s (streaming chat).  It went away and I miss some old friends from there.  They are probably still around, maybe even here, but we don't recogonize each other's avatars, LOL!.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 02:37:51 AM
Here is todangst.

https://www.rationalresponders.com/user/todangst
And
http://www.rationalresponders.com/user/hillbillyatheist
And
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/6092
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 07:53:20 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 02:37:51 AM
Here is todangst.

https://www.rationalresponders.com/user/todangst
And
http://www.rationalresponders.com/user/hillbillyatheist
And
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/6092

Nothing worse than toad angst...  Just a mild joke.  LOL!
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 08:21:32 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 07:53:20 AM
Nothing worse than toad angst...  Just a mild joke.  LOL!
Todangst translated from German = fear of death.

Sent from my LG-H860 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 14, 2017, 08:21:32 AM
Todangst translated from German = fear of death.

Sent from my LG-H860 using Tapatalk

Do you think toads do not suffer angst?  OK, I'm not Baruch.  I actually mean something intelligible by what I say.  I clicked on your links.  Only one worked at the time.  And that one was something about Jesus and Mohammed being the same person?

So I sort of gave up on that.

A toad finding itself of a road feels angst.  It's going to likely die.  I will not be the toad.  I would at least hop FAST!

Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mr.Obvious on September 14, 2017, 08:32:20 AM
Welcome back, prodigal son, to our little band of heathens.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 14, 2017, 08:32:20 AM
Welcome back, prodigal son, to our little band of heathens.

Yeah yeah, hurray hurray.  Let's see a worthwhile post.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: aitm on September 14, 2017, 09:52:05 AM
Welcome back. We are much quieter than we used to be. Some like it, some don't.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Blackleaf on September 14, 2017, 09:53:29 AM
It's kinda depressing trying to reconnect with people, only to find most of them left. At least this site still exists. The ones I frequented when I was a kid have mostly dissolved. Been here a grand total of two years. Welcome back.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 09:58:54 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 14, 2017, 09:53:29 AM
It's kinda depressing trying to reconnect with people, only to find most of them left. At least this site still exists. The ones I frequented when I was a kid have mostly dissolved. Been here a grand total of two years. Welcome back.
When you get to be my age that is the nature of the beast.  Some have moved on and others have died.  That will happen more and more for me, I think.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 09:58:54 AM
When you get to be my age that is the nature of the beast.  Some have moved on and others have died.  That will happen more and more for me, I think.

Yeah, here too.  The news is filled every day wit people my age kicking off. 
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 10:16:47 AM
Yeah, here too.  The news is filled every day wit people my age kicking off.
It's when most of them are younger than me that it gets to be odd--or something.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
For me you are new--so welcome (back) Davo.  Hope you stick around.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
For me you are new--so welcome (back) Davo.  Hope you stick around.

Yeah, you are new to me too.  Say something devastatingly atheistic so I really know where you stand. 

And don't take that wrong.  I've been around the block a few times.  Skeptical...
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: trdsf on September 14, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
You're also new to me, but I'll take your word that you're a returnee, so welcome back.  :D
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: trdsf on September 14, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
You're also new to me, but I'll take your word that you're a returnee, so welcome back.  :D
Accept it on faith. :)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
Do you think toads do not suffer angst?  OK, I'm not Baruch.  I actually mean something intelligible by what I say.  I clicked on your links.  Only one worked at the time.  And that one was something about Jesus and Mohammed being the same person?

So I sort of gave up on that.

A toad finding itself of a road feels angst.  It's going to likely die.  I will not be the toad.  I would at least hop FAST!

No you are not me.  I may have multiple personalities, but all of them make posts that are remarkable ;-)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Accept it on faith. :)

LOL!  OK, you have a good sense of humor.  But Baruch could have said that.  And would, actually.  And probably will.

Oh. speak of the devil.  ;)

If I may ask, who is the most evil person who ever lived?
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Accept it on faith. :)
Faith--yes!  One of my strongest assets.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
Bah--that sucks! I was from North Dakota, but now (like most people who grew up in North Dakota) live in Minneapolis.

Oh well. I'm sure seeing the crap 20-year-old me was writing would produce more cringe than is healthy. That's too bad that everyone I knew has left. Todangst was another one--guy taught me SO much stuff here. :)

To answer the previous poster: I don't believe in a personal God or anything, but I'm much much much less militant in my atheism now than I was in my heyday here.

Many people go thru atheism but not all stay there ... sometimes they get there thru teenage rebellion, some by steady maturing.  As you get older, you can read your old writings fairly often ... and remark .. who was that guy?
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Faith--yes!  One of my strongest assets.

Missed out on the smiley or sarc tag ;-)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 12:57:20 PM
No you are not me.  I may have multiple personalities, but all of them make posts that are remarkable ;-)

Oh, they are ALL "remarkable"   We remark on them often.  But are they meaningful?  I think less then half.  A 1/4 is iffy.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 01:02:21 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 01:01:06 PM
Missed out on the smiley or sarc tag ;-)
What?!  You doubt my faith????
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Faith--yes!  One of my strongest assets.

What?  Have I misunderstood you this past year?
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:07:35 PM
What?  Have I misunderstood you this past year?
Nope--not a whit, not a tittle.  Just deep sarcasm for your good bud,  Baurch.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:30:41 AM
I used to post on this forum every day back when I was in college.....must have been 2004-2006-ish? I just stumbled back across this by random--my goodness, I still recognize some of the names! (Hillbilly Atheist, SVZurich....Buckster!)

Anyone know if the archives from way back a million years ago exist somewhere? I mostly want to try to remember what my old name was...or read over my old posts, to see how much I've changed!

But if not, eh, I'll cope. I still have fond memories.

So you are like, 1986ish?  Welcome, ya bonnie laddie...
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 01:01:30 PM
Oh, they are ALL "remarkable"   We remark on them often.  But are they meaningful?  I think less then half.  A 1/4 is iffy.

I only play 11-D chess with President Obama ;-)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
I only play 11-D chess with President Obama ;-)

Aside from the fact that you couldn't play 3D chess (I can) Obama would probably beat you at any game or argument.

Which means nothing, really.  The point is that you are struggling HERE!  And your posts are generally without meaning.  Like this one.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Sal1981 on September 14, 2017, 02:31:42 PM
Those are some old-timers.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 02:44:13 PM
Yep--I'm 32. Went from being a hell-raiser to moving to the suburbs with a wife and a kid, and punching the clock in an office. It happens!

Let's see, is there anything interesting about me? Not a lot to work with but: huge baseball fan (go Royals!). Pretentious film snob (sorry, I know we are the worst, though I'm perhaps not FULLY the worst since I do adore the burgeoning micro-budget American indie scene --I'm not a "just Tarkovsky and Fellini, you plebe" guy). I read a lot, but it's almost all literary fiction (some of my favorite writers are Edith Wharton, Knut Hamsun, Neil LaBute, and Michel Houellebecq).

Politically I'm a hodgepodge: culturally I'm right of center, but on economics I'm extremely far left. I usually vote Democrat.

Religion: I was raised in a non-religious household, so I've only been to church for weddings. Was very much into the popular atheist writers of the day (Harris, Shermer, George H. Smith, Dawkins, etc) but have moved on very far from them (I think Dawkins in particular is doing much more harm than good). I'm more of a "squishy" atheist, one who lacks faith but envies those who do. Sorry again!

Also, I don't put pineapple on my pizza, and consider those who do to be the real heathens.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: trdsf on September 14, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 12:51:29 PM
Accept it on faith. :)
Well, it's not an especially extraordinary claim, so I won't push for extraordinary evidence.

Now, if you're going to say you've been on Mars for the last ten years, then I might want to see pictures.  :D
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Unbeliever on September 14, 2017, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 10:16:47 AM
Yeah, here too.  The news is filled every day wit people my age kicking off. 
Old football players never die, they just kick off.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Unbeliever on September 14, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
For me you are new--so welcome (back) Davo.  Hope you stick around.
I second the motion!

(https://rlv.zcache.com/stick_around_funny_cartoon_barnacle_sticker-r4e939f004828466a850ad641e26bceab_v9waf_8byvr_324.jpg)

You've got a lot of catching up to do!
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 14, 2017, 03:46:39 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 02:44:13 PM
Yep--I'm 32. Went from being a hell-raiser to moving to the suburbs with a wife and a kid, and punching the clock in an office. It happens!

Let's see, is there anything interesting about me? Not a lot to work with but: huge baseball fan (go Royals!). Pretentious film snob (sorry, I know we are the worst, though I'm perhaps not FULLY the worst since I do adore the burgeoning micro-budget American indie scene --I'm not a "just Tarkovsky and Fellini, you plebe" guy). I read a lot, but it's almost all literary fiction (some of my favorite writers are Edith Wharton, Knut Hamsun, Neil LaBute, and Michel Houellebecq).

Politically I'm a hodgepodge: culturally I'm right of center, but on economics I'm extremely far left. I usually vote Democrat.

Religion: I was raised in a non-religious household, so I've only been to church for weddings. Was very much into the popular atheist writers of the day (Harris, Shermer, George H. Smith, Dawkins, etc) but have moved on very far from them (I think Dawkins in particular is doing much more harm than good). I'm more of a "squishy" atheist, one who lacks faith but envies those who do. Sorry again!

Also, I don't put pineapple on my pizza, and consider those who do to be the real heathens.

This should be good.  I'm a 67 year old dedicated atheist.  Started as a Boy Scout.  Grew up in a non-theist family like you.

Washington Nationals fan.  but I'm not a devoted sports watcher. 

I don't have your artistic provenance.  None of the movie people you mentioned ring a bell.  The last movie I saw in a theater was AntZ.  Though I saw the 2nd showing of 'Alien" in NYC.  We saw the 1st viewers come out pale and slack-jawed and I turned to my friend and said "WHAT have we gotten ourselves into"?

I love reading Harris, Shermer, and Dawkins, et al.  And Jared Diamond.

Card-carrying life member of American Atheists pre O'Hair murders.  The first thing I searched when the office got internet was "atheist".  Was an early member of their streaming chat, so that tells you I go back a ways.  New here, just a year.

Pineapple on pizza?  No, strictly pepperoni, green peppers and mushroom, extra sauce.  I love tomatoes...  And I make my own usually.

We aren't identical politically.  In fact I'm the moderate opposite; more culturally left and economically cautious.

Nice to meet you.  I look forward to some great discussions...

Cavebear
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: davoarid on September 14, 2017, 02:44:13 PM

Let's see, is there anything interesting about me? Not a lot to work with but: huge baseball fan (go Royals!).

Also, I don't put pineapple on my pizza, and consider those who do to be the real heathens.

Huge Yankees fan--old enough to have lived thru the Pine Tar Incident.  Do you know what that was?  The last time KC was good (was they ever good?:)))was when George Brett played.  At least that is what Bill James claims--love his writings--hate he works for the Red Sux.  I am old enough to remember when the KC A's were almost the farm system for the Yankees.  (Roger Maris came from KC)  In any case--love baseball too.

And I join you about pineapple on pizza.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 07:24:27 PM
I agree about Jared Diamond.  About the only thing I agree with Cavebear.  I am a heretical theist, drug here by Mike Cl from another forum.  Drugs were pretty good too ;-)  Politically .. Kekistani.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Mike Cl on September 14, 2017, 08:39:14 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 07:24:27 PM
I agree about Jared Diamond.  About the only thing I agree with Cavebear.  I am a heretical theist, drug here by Mike Cl from another forum.  Drugs were pretty good too ;-)  Politically .. Kekistani.
See--sometimes a drug is a good thing! :)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2017, 05:58:55 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 07:24:27 PM
I agree about Jared Diamond.  About the only thing I agree with Cavebear.  I am a heretical theist, drug here by Mike Cl from another forum.  Drugs were pretty good too ;-)  Politically .. Kekistani.

If you were drug here, feel free to leave at any time. 

What about Diamond interests you?  I have some opinions but I'd like to hear yours first.  For a change and so you just don't attack mine reflexively.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2017, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 19, 2017, 05:58:55 AM
If you were drug here, feel free to leave at any time. 

What about Diamond interests you?  I have some opinions but I'd like to hear yours first.  For a change and so you just don't attack mine reflexively.

But ... but .. you are just like the funny hammer the doctor uses to hit my knee cap with.

Dr Diamond is a humanitarian and an anthropologist.  Did you see the movie version of Guns, Germs and Steel?  Did you read any of his other books?  A really great anthropologist and humanitarian.  He is fact based and well informed ... and not Western biased.  But his conclusions run against the whole UN under-developed country dogma.  In country X, some things will simply not work, because of climate and biology.  Not the people.  Of course people are a problem, in other respects.  I like his hypothesis, that if the rhino had been a domesticable animal, then Black Africans would have dominated the world circa 1900 instead of Europeans.  Stefan Molyneux is on the other side of the argument, regarding average IQ.  Average IQ does vary from place to place, but what matters is your individual IQ, vs what you are trying to do.  If it is too low, you are a village idiot in any society.  There will always be enough high IQ people in any given society that will push it forward (possibly off a cliff).

Empires of the Word by Nicholas Ostler is a good complement to Dr Diamond, covering the main cultural development, language.  He also covers the whole planet, and over 5000 years of time.  In Guns, Germs and Steel ... the most significant events happened in prehistory, before writing.  Access to domesticable plants and animals was decisive.  You just didn't have much of a competitive chance if you lived in the Amazon vs Anatolia.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2017, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 19, 2017, 12:55:02 PM
But ... but .. you are just like the funny hammer the doctor uses to hit my knee cap with.

Dr Diamond is a humanitarian and an anthropologist.  Did you see the movie version of Guns, Germs and Steel?  Did you read any of his other books?  A really great anthropologist and humanitarian.  He is fact based and well informed ... and not Western biased.  But his conclusions run against the whole UN under-developed country dogma.  In country X, some things will simply not work, because of climate and biology.  Not the people.  Of course people are a problem, in other respects.  I like his hypothesis, that if the rhino had been a domesticable animal, then Black Africans would have dominated the world circa 1900 instead of Europeans.  Stefan Molyneux is on the other side of the argument, regarding average IQ.  Average IQ does vary from place to place, but what matters is your individual IQ, vs what you are trying to do.  If it is too low, you are a village idiot in any society.  There will always be enough high IQ people in any given society that will push it forward (possibly off a cliff).

Empires of the Word by Nicholas Ostler is a good complement to Dr Diamond, covering the main cultural development, language.  He also covers the whole planet, and over 5000 years of time.  In Guns, Germs and Steel ... the most significant events happened in prehistory, before writing.  Access to domesticable plants and animals was decisive.  You just didn't have much of a competitive chance if you lived in the Amazon vs Anatolia.

Yeah, I know, the "But...but" is your joking style to distract what comes later with an absurd irrelevancy. 
Fine...

I have seen the movie (well, tape).  It was awful.  Pretentious, driveling, and condescending.  I was embarrassed to watch it.

The original book was superb.  The book "Guns. Germs, and Steel' changed my whole way of thinking about
how civilizations developed after the late bronze age.  The other books are simplistic crap.  Although I am slogging my way through 'Collapse' a 2nd try.  Hey, he had one great idea.  Doesn't mean he had another.

I would give a lot to have had that one great understanding as an original thought...  Almost like Odin's eye...  Or Natural Selection.  But I do understand it and that matters.

Access to domesticatable animals.  Access to domesticatable plants.  Living with both and the diseases they carried.  That other people did not have the same animals and plants available (and we sure have tried since).   That some groups thrived BECAUSE of the diseases from animals and plants that kept killing the weak.  That some had an advantage of the deaths of their ancestors to develop faster in the out-of-the way Europe

The Plague and Smallpox killed so many but the survivors were immune after.  One step leads to another.  There is a reason the Europeans met the AmerIdians rather than they sailed to Spain.

And it is all so much about happenstance.  Where you live determined what diseases the local population survived and ignored.  What food supplies you had to feed the children; what specialization of labor permitted to increase efficiency of production.

His ideas do not support the UN idea of everyone can rise if they only try.  You can't make a nation in a desert or a jungle and he explains why.

I have read Molyneux.  He is a neo-nazi, right wing fanatic, and racist.  Further, he suggests that most of the world's problems is that we are raised badly by women, left our "Family Of Origin (Aryan), and need an IQ uplift through his cult-therapy. 

I despise all his views.

I'm not familiar with Ostler, but I have studied linguistics in several books by Ruhlen and Baldi and understood the basics though I am surely not grad level at THAT.  But the books had some tests and I got it all pretty much right when it came to cognates (Latin helped, but I got the pre-Latin stuff cold too).  I think I would get a B in pre-writing languages in a conversation with them.

I will have to read Ostler.

But I doubt anything I ever read will shake me from Diamond's basic view of the advantages of domesticatable plants and animals and the consequences of living with them closely.





Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2017, 09:03:57 PM
We don't disagree, because Dr Diamond happens to be right.  He is also right, that if humanity locally or globally degrades their living environment sufficiently, then they either migrate or don't survive.  Migrating to Mars to trash it, isn't a viable option.

Yes, I don't agree with Molyneux on the issue of IQ, or on other issues.  But just mentioning him, as an indirect criticism of Diamond ... was just ad hominem on your part.  You are a partisan/bigot like all the other ape men.  And yes, Ostler isn't biased either, he simply describes what happened.  His speculation on the future of language, or if English will survive competition with Chinese or Hindi ... is of course only speculation.  Don't judge him on that.

One reason I mentioned the UN development agenda, is that it has had time to work 50 years, and has failed.  The old idea was that colonialism held Nigeria back from becoming a super-power.  The new idea was that the Cold War held Nigeria back from becoming a super-power.  There are more serious problems biogeography wise and climate wise with Nigeria ... than just conspiracy theories about the White Overlords.  Not that I am not sympathetic to Nigerians ... but they will always have certain problems if they remain in Nigeria.  Like lack of weaponized rhinos.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on September 21, 2017, 10:29:23 AM
Welcome back, friend.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 19, 2017, 09:03:57 PM
We don't disagree, because Dr Diamond happens to be right.  He is also right, that if humanity locally or globally degrades their living environment sufficiently, then they either migrate or don't survive.  Migrating to Mars to trash it, isn't a viable option.

Yes, I don't agree with Molyneux on the issue of IQ, or on other issues.  But just mentioning him, as an indirect criticism of Diamond ... was just ad hominem on your part.  You are a partisan/bigot like all the other ape men.  And yes, Ostler isn't biased either, he simply describes what happened.  His speculation on the future of language, or if English will survive competition with Chinese or Hindi ... is of course only speculation.  Don't judge him on that.

One reason I mentioned the UN development agenda, is that it has had time to work 50 years, and has failed.  The old idea was that colonialism held Nigeria back from becoming a super-power.  The new idea was that the Cold War held Nigeria back from becoming a super-power.  There are more serious problems biogeography wise and climate wise with Nigeria ... than just conspiracy theories about the White Overlords.  Not that I am not sympathetic to Nigerians ... but they will always have certain problems if they remain in Nigeria.  Like lack of weaponized rhinos.

Hold on now...  I agree with you about Diamond historically.  I agree we can't trash the planet and move on. 

We agree and disagree about Molyneux.  There are aspects of him that are neo-Nazi and racist.  Saying that is not ad hominem when there is evidence.  Stephan Molyneux thinks average IQ varies from place to place.  When that is applied to ethnicity or race or place, it is generally racist.

I suggest you not confuse lack of educational opportunities for lack of IQ.

The UN is not the greatest governing body.  Few nations will give it power to enforce worldwide rules and it doesn't having steady funding except from the US.  But it has possibilities.

Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 10:54:27 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 01:05:41 AM
Hold on now...  I agree with you about Diamond historically.  I agree we can't trash the planet and move on. 

We agree and disagree about Molyneux.  There are aspects of him that are neo-Nazi and racist.  Saying that is not ad hominem when there is evidence.  Stephan Molyneux thinks average IQ varies from place to place.  When that is applied to ethnicity or race or place, it is generally racist.

I suggest you not confuse lack of educational opportunities for lack of IQ.

The UN is not the greatest governing body.  Few nations will give it power to enforce worldwide rules and it doesn't having steady funding except from the US.  But it has possibilities.

We most definitely agree.  I used Molyneux as a counter example, not as an endorsement.  I also understand, same as you, how he is wrong on IQ (Bell Curve was trash).  But the UN still has hope?  Is that you ... Eleanor Roosevelt? ;-)
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 10:54:27 AM
We most definitely agree.  I used Molyneux as a counter example, not as an endorsement.  I also understand, same as you, how he is wrong on IQ (Bell Curve was trash).  But the UN still has hope?  Is that you ... Eleanor Roosevelt? ;-)

The more I see about how nations collide, the more I wonder about a united world.

It bothers me greatly, knowing the possibilities of dictator (Roman style) , but a united world government might be our only chance at not wiping ourselves out before the Centurians arrive and do.  LOL! 
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
The more I see about how nations collide, the more I wonder about a united world.

It bothers me greatly, knowing the possibilities of dictator (Roman style) , but a united world government might be our only chance at not wiping ourselves out before the Centurians arrive and do.  LOL!

I think it is ... Sontaurans ... and they are vulnerable at their little vent hole in the back ... kind of like the stupid Death Star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3FoeR6wBQ
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 11:36:18 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
I think it is ... Sontaurans ... and they are vulnerable at their little vent hole in the back ... kind of like the stupid Death Star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3FoeR6wBQ

Couldn't even get a rise out of you from the Roman meaning of "dictator" vs the modern?  You MUST be tired...
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
I think it is ... Sontaurans ... and they are vulnerable at their little vent hole in the back ... kind of like the stupid Death Star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3FoeR6wBQ

Actually, that "obvious flaw" in the Death Star really wasn't much of a weakness when you think about it. The weak point was a single exhaust port. It's impossible to have such a big station have only one little exhaust port the size of a possum, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief for a sci-fi, it still definitely doesn't qualify as a chink in the armor. Also, exhaust pushes gas OUT. Meaning it would have provided resistance to any missiles entering it, knocking them off course. Instead, that missile miraculously traveled miles to the center of the Death Star to blow it up. If the Resistance didn't have a space wizard on their side, they wouldn't have had a chance in Hell to destroy the Death Star.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 12:08:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
Actually, that "obvious flaw" in the Death Star really wasn't much of a weakness when you think about it. The weak point was a single exhaust port. It's impossible to have such a big station have only one little exhaust port the size of a possum, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief for a sci-fi, it still definitely doesn't qualify as a chink in the armor. Also, exhaust pushes gas OUT. Meaning it would have provided resistance to any missiles entering it, knocking them off course. Instead, that missile miraculously traveled miles to the center of the Death Star to blow it up. If the Resistance didn't have a space wizard on their side, they wouldn't have had a chance in Hell to destroy the Death Star.

The biggest diamond has a tapping point that will shatter it, a ming vase can be broken with a marble, and (in one sci-fi novel) the baddest tank can be destroyed by a trained dog with a grenade.  Nothing is perfect.  I feel sorry for the dog, though.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:06:11 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
Actually, that "obvious flaw" in the Death Star really wasn't much of a weakness when you think about it. The weak point was a single exhaust port. It's impossible to have such a big station have only one little exhaust port the size of a possum, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief for a sci-fi, it still definitely doesn't qualify as a chink in the armor. Also, exhaust pushes gas OUT. Meaning it would have provided resistance to any missiles entering it, knocking them off course. Instead, that missile miraculously traveled miles to the center of the Death Star to blow it up. If the Resistance didn't have a space wizard on their side, they wouldn't have had a chance in Hell to destroy the Death Star.

Family Guy spoof on Death Star design flaw ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nTk_lJqiIQ

We aerospace engineers are paid to avoid these little design flaws!
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 23, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
I was here back then, and I'm afraid the archives have been lost to time.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 23, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
I was here back then, and I'm afraid the archives have been lost to time.

Same thing happened to the records of the 13th century, including Dante, in the original Rollerball movie.  Very plausible, since almost every major computer system on the planet is either hacked, broken or both.  See, if civilization was like software, the first woodpecker who came along would destroy the planet.  We are moving everything to software ... so I see apocalypse as Page 404 Not Found.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:06:11 PM
Family Guy spoof on Death Star design flaw ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nTk_lJqiIQ

We aerospace engineers are paid to avoid these little design flaws!

Plugging up the hole would be like sticking a potato in the tailpipe of your car. Only your car is the size of a moon and should realistically have many more tailpipes than it actually does.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 04:30:37 PM
Plugging up the hole would be like sticking a potato in the tailpipe of your car. Only your car is the size of a moon and should realistically have many more tailpipes than it actually does.

A real rebel would be all like ... putting sugar in the gas tank.  But wouldn't do that, because it would be too triggering for diabetics.
Title: Re: I have returned from a decade-long absence!
Post by: Cavebear on September 28, 2017, 01:23:41 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:15:29 PM
in the original Rollerball movie.

Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan...