I suppose everyone has seen this by now. Utah nurse arrested for following hospital protocol. This blows my mind. It's not like she's being uncooperative. The hospital tells her she is not allowed to draw blood from an unconscious patient without a warrant or two other extenuating circumstances, none of which are met. So a detective handcuffs her and drags her out of the hospital. I think she's going to be OK, but she is probably confused about the reality she lives in right now. I would be. I don't know that I could maintain her level of civility in the aftermath. I would try, but I'd probably blow the TV interview afterwards. Catching this on the internet was a WTF??? moment for me.
The Arrest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU_RjebYDis
The Police Press Conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSWoiPWcC9E
News Interview with Nurse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zafTlclc090
Somehow, cops have to be reminded of their place... and I honestly don't know how that will be done when society creates memes luke, "blue lives matter too!" and constantly make excuses for them like, "not all cops are bad, so don't criticise them!"'.
I think it would be best for our society and the state it is in right now, for her to sue the police dept. for all the money she can get. And it would be appropriate for that police officer be charged with assault--and his supervisor if he did, indeed, tell the officer to arrest the nurse. I'm afraid neither will happen.
QuoteMy SJW Is Showing After Police Arrest Nurse
Between shit like this and Charlottesville, I'm kind of wishing for the SJWs to come back. Better the evil I'm mildly annoyed by than the evil I'm fucking terrified of.
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 02:24:57 PM
I suppose everyone has seen this by now. Utah nurse arrested for following hospital protocol. This blows my mind. It's not like she's being uncooperative. The hospital tells her she is not allowed to draw blood from an unconscious patient without a warrant or two other extenuating circumstances, none of which are met. So a detective handcuffs her and drags her out of the hospital.
It boils my blood how this bully-with-a-badge immediately leapt to roughing her up when he found out he wouldn't get his way. What a brutal enforcer.
Will he keep his job? Would he keep his job if this weren't caught on camera?
In closing, I'd like to remind everyone that if I fuck up making a pizza, I fully expect to be fired. But when one of these people fucks up a person's life, what are the consequences? (if any)
In Albuquerque the police kill vagrants ... even if they are White ;-(
But really, since 9/11, the FISA court granted universal warrant for the President to do anything he damn well pleases, and delegate that god-power to any police jurisdiction he wants to grant it to.
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
Will he keep his job? Would he keep his job if this weren't caught on camera?
It's an interesting case as well as a visual example of police intimidation. Conducting a search and seizure requires that a cop have reason to suspect wrong doing, which I assume justifies a warrant, although a warrant may not be required, depending on how "reason" is defined. I'm only guessing about how that works.
So cops have to make their own decision on whether to conduct a search without a warrant and take personal responsibility for the legality of it later. But can they force a civilian to conduct the search for them? Who would be guilty of the illegal search, if it is illegal? Could the police just muscle their way into intensive care and get their own blood sample? I mean if you need a blood sample that bad, it must be OK, right?
Take the nurse out of the picture, and imagine this case going to court. If the judge throws out the case on the basis of an illegal search and seizure, does the officer have the right to immediately rough up the judge and drag him out of the courtroom? The judge is just doing his job. How would that be different than the nurse?
One of my first reactions to this was wow, a nurse who protects the patient, rather than giving into the police.
I had thought all commercial truckers (this case) had given implied consent to testing when they accepted their license to drive big rigs, but after looking it up, Nope, the hospital rules regarding this were spot on. The trucker had to be under arrest or a warrant needed if he did not/could not consent.
This poor guy ended up in the hospital via a different driver fleeing police and crashing into the truck. The other driver died. There was no probable cause to arrest this driver, nor seek a warrant - though that does not mean a judge wouldn't have signed a warrant if asked.
Quote from: SGOS on September 03, 2017, 05:40:01 AM
Could the police just muscle their way into intensive care and get their own blood sample? I mean if you need a blood sample that bad, it must be OK, right?
That certainly could happen, although any lawyer would claim the police were biased and thus their "chain of custody" would be tainted as well.
I have always wanted to challenge the right of officers to enter my house with a warrant but not without my having the right to search them for drugs or other contraband. We have established that cops have and will plant their own drugs to defend their warrant. I wonder how well that would play if I demanded they strip to their skivvies afor I let em in. Yo, Bitch! That bra looks stuffed, drop it!
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
It boils my blood how this bully-with-a-badge immediately leapt to roughing her up when he found out he wouldn't get his way. What a brutal enforcer.
I was taken aback by that one too. He could have said in a much more civilized manner, "Mam, I'm going to have to take you down to the station," and escorted her to his car. Instead, he said, "That's it. I'm arresting you," and then he apparently grabbed her. I couldn't tell if she was resisting, however. She seemed to be struggling in defense of the unusually rough treatment. It seemed like the cop just wanted to get tough and teach her a lesson, and manhandling her was the method of choice.
Also, she seemed to be fearful when she was explaining patient rights and hospital rules to the cop. I was perplexed by why that was, and I wondered if she sensed the cops unstable emotional state and a coming attack long before he escalated the situation.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on September 02, 2017, 08:23:36 PM
Between shit like this and Charlottesville, I'm kind of wishing for the SJWs to come back. Better the evil I'm mildly annoyed by than the evil I'm fucking terrified of.
I don't understand our culture at all.
"SJW" is such an annoying term. Everything is on a continuum, a spectrum. We seem to love to label people by one belief or action. Being disgusted by this police officer does not make you a "SJW", it makes you someone who finds this unjust act to be bad.
ARGH.
Quote from: SGOS on September 03, 2017, 09:57:58 AMIt seemed like the cop just wanted to get tough and teach her a lesson, and manhandling her was the method of choice.
Exactly. And if that's how he acts in a hospital, just imagine how he acts in the streets. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that this probably isn't the first time he's blown a gasket and roughed somebody up simply because he wanted to.
And he's far from the only one. You'd think people sworn to uphold the law would have more respect for it.
Quote from: Mermaid on September 03, 2017, 10:17:13 AM
I don't understand our culture at all.
"SJW" is such an annoying term. Everything is on a continuum, a spectrum. We seem to love to label people by one belief or action. Being disgusted by this police officer does not make you a "SJW", it makes you someone who finds this unjust act to be bad.
ARGH.
Thank You.
"... does the officer have the right to immediately rough up the judge and drag him out of the courtroom?" ... quite a few cops would love to rough up quite a few judges over the last 60 years. Their profession stinks, above the law, even more than police.
Good thing there wasn't a whole gang of cops there - they would probably all have jumped on her, maybe choked her out, or worse. Damned cops - can't live with them, can't live without them. I expect this kind of thing to get worse before it gets better. Chump wants them to be even more rough, so they think they've got carte blanche to do as they please.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 03, 2017, 01:17:53 PM
Good thing there wasn't a whole gang of cops there - they would probably all have jumped on her, maybe choked her out, or worse. Damned cops - can't live with them, can't live without them. I expect this kind of thing to get worse before it gets better. Chump wants them to be even more rough, so they think they've got carte blanche to do as they please.
Can't we all just get along? - Rodney King
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 02:27:08 PM
Can't we all just get along?
You don't even need to footnote the author. No one can forget that quote.
Quote from: SGOS on September 03, 2017, 02:48:32 PMYou don't even need to footnote the author. No one can forget that quote.
I used to say that all the time in the 90s, usually with the implication that it's a naive sentiment.
I didn't learn until recently that Rodney King said that in an attempt to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
Reminds me of cops saying "get along, nothing to see here" when they're beating someone half to death.
Trump has spent a great deal of time lately inflating the egos of cops. Most of them suffer from inferiority complex.
I have a CDL refusing a drug test is considered the same as failing one, but that doesn't say anything about an unconscious person. There are cops that hate truck drivers as much as they hate black people and they will take every opportunity to take them down.
Stupid cop forgot a basic rule for nurses. They can't do anything without a Dr's order to do it.
Maybe all cops need to take an anger management class... and Baruch can be the teacher ;-)
I hope she sues for false arrest because he had no justifiable reason to arrest her
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 03:23:56 PM
I used to say that all the time in the 90s, usually with the implication that it's a naive sentiment.
I didn't learn until recently that Rodney King said that in an attempt to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
I remember watching him on TV probably 40 different times in the same news clip, and yes it was naïve, which is probably why it got so much air time. But I don't remember a news commentator commenting on his oratory or intent. He had his heart in the right place, but it kind of leaves you not knowing what to say, doesn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0
Quote from: fencerider on September 03, 2017, 03:40:36 PM
I hope she sues for false arrest because he had no justifiable reason to arrest her
She did say nothing is off the table, which is good, because it wouldn't be smart to give the police a free pass on that one.
I can arrange that ... anger management for cops. At work, we had to go to that ... and all we learned about the objects of our anger is "They are doing the best they can". On a realistic note, I have a nephew who is a cop, so I would put him in charge. He seems to be a good man to me. What I do know more directly, is the PTSD that cops have ... my ex once rode on patrol with a policeman, as part of a community support effort. The cop had to stop a motorist, and she said that she could feel the fear the policeman had, his uncertainly as to what he might be getting into (an armed escaped felon perhaps). Police stop turned out OK, but the cop was keyed up to the point of near breakdown. I would suggest regular free psychological counseling would go a long way for police and firemen.
I admire policing in general. We can't live without it. But too many are out of control. Control has to be re-established. A few in jail and the problem will diminish.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 11:08:30 PM
I admire policing in general. We can't live without it. But too many are out of control. Control has to be re-established. A few in jail and the problem will diminish.
If the problem is psychological, jailing won't solve it ... we already tried that with the war on drugs.
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 11:21:03 PM
If the problem is psychological, jailing won't solve it ... we already tried that with the war on drugs.
Some out-of-control police get jailed, it will send an internal message. Drug jailings don't work because of profit margins. Police in jail will change behavior.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 11:43:17 PM
Some out-of-control police get jailed, it will send an internal message. Drug jailings don't work because of profit margins. Police in jail will change behavior.
Jailing people doesn't solve anything. Jailing cops means ... they learn to leave no witnesses. That may already be happening (that young black woman recently down in Texas). Asset forfeiture is big business now, 4.5 billion dollars, supposedly to stop the drug trade (it doesn't, it funds municipalities that can't raise property tax) .. the public takes a larger loss now than the loss from actual theft.
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 12:32:11 AM
Jailing people doesn't solve anything. Jailing cops means ... they learn to leave no witnesses. That may already be happening (that young black woman recently down in Texas). Asset forfeiture is big business now, 4.5 billion dollars, supposedly to stop the drug trade (it doesn't, it funds municipalities that can't raise property tax) .. the public takes a larger loss now than the loss from actual theft.
They've already learned that a century ago. And routine asset forfeiture has GOT to stop.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 12:47:55 AM
They've already learned that a century ago. And routine asset forfeiture has GOT to stop.
Team Rocket is now in charge (Pokemon) ... won't stop until they have captured all the Pokemon (assets). The IRS was used to get rid of Al Capone ... now everyone is being screwed over by the precedent. That is how law works.
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 12:53:41 AM
Team Rocket is not in charge (Pokemon) ... won't stop until they have captured all the Pokemon (assets). The IRS was used to get rid of Al Capone ... now everyone is being screwed over by the precedent. That is how law works.
Ah Jesse and James. Always go *PING up in the sky. They always annoyed me. Not that I ever followed Pokemon to the end (if it ever ended) but I always thought it should end with one last little girl and some weak pokemon facing Ash, and he RELEASED THEM ALL! Rather than take the last one.
But that's just me...
Update: the manhandling cop got fired and the other one got demoted (https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46118645&nid=148&title=chief-fires-officer-who-arrested-u-nurse-lieutenant-demoted)
I'm surprised that something was actually done about this rather than just letting this stuff slide. But I'm also surprised that I'm surprised. Shouldn't this be the expected outcome?
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 10, 2017, 11:20:39 PM
Shouldn't this be the expected outcome?
I guess it happens sometimes. I wouldn't say I'm surprised, but if hey let it slide, I wouldn't have been surprised either.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 10, 2017, 11:20:39 PM
Update: the manhandling cop got fired and the other one got demoted (https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46118645&nid=148&title=chief-fires-officer-who-arrested-u-nurse-lieutenant-demoted)
I'm surprised that something was actually done about this rather than just letting this stuff slide. But I'm also surprised that I'm surprised. Shouldn't this be the expected outcome?
It should. It's not. That is the surprise.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 01:10:02 AM
It should. It's not. That is the surprise.
Government agencies, including the cops, don't discipline themselves ... wasn't that so in your agency? It is in mine. People are well intentioned, but then The System intervenes and it all goes to shit.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 10, 2017, 11:20:39 PM
Update: the manhandling cop got fired and the other one got demoted (https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46118645&nid=148&title=chief-fires-officer-who-arrested-u-nurse-lieutenant-demoted)
I'm surprised that something was actually done about this rather than just letting this stuff slide. But I'm also surprised that I'm surprised. Shouldn't this be the expected outcome?
Yes, but not a cop conspiracy. Not a government conspiracy. Just a bureaucracy covering its own ass. Don't like bureaucracy? Then don't vote to have more government agencies, and more missions for the agencies we already have. More government isn't the answer, it is the problem.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 10, 2017, 11:20:39 PM
Update: the manhandling cop got fired and the other one got demoted (https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46118645&nid=148&title=chief-fires-officer-who-arrested-u-nurse-lieutenant-demoted)
I'm surprised that something was actually done about this rather than just letting this stuff slide. But I'm also surprised that I'm surprised. Shouldn't this be the expected outcome?
Part of me wonders if this would also have been the punishment had the nurse been black rather than white. I can't quite divest myself of the feeling that in that case, it would've been administrative leave with pay and a talking-to. Considering it took this long to sack him when that should have been an immediate frog-march out the door as soon as that video came out...
Quote from: trdsf on October 11, 2017, 10:40:01 AM
Part of me wonders if this would also have been the punishment had the nurse been black rather than white. I can't quite divest myself of the feeling that in that case, it would've been administrative leave with pay and a talking-to. Considering it took this long to sack him when that should have been an immediate frog-march out the door as soon as that video came out...
We are a nation of laws. And all the laws need to be applied equally. If they aren't applied to someone else, they may not be applied to me.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 11:23:24 AM
We are a nation of laws. And all the laws need to be applied equally. If they aren't applied to someone else, they may not be applied to me.
We will all be equal, when we are all 6 foot tall White males who are my age, and go to synagogue. Otherwise, short of Star Wars clone wars, don't expect much equality. Laws are so the little guys aren't dicks as big as the big guys. Your Civics 101 is quaint.
Quote from: trdsf on October 11, 2017, 10:40:01 AMPart of me wonders if this would also have been the punishment had the nurse been black rather than white.
And if it had been a fatal shooting rather than a comparably mild manhandling. The thought has crossed my mind. I'll leave it at that.
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 08:48:07 PM
We will all be equal, when we are all 6 foot tall White males who are my age, and go to synagogue. Otherwise, short of Star Wars clone wars, don't expect much equality. Laws are so the little guys aren't dicks as big as the big guys. Your Civics 101 is quaint.
So laws are just for rich white guys, right? The question is "do you think that is right".
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 01:55:25 AM
So laws are just for rich white guys, right? The question is "do you think that is right".
There is right, there is left. Two hands still, thank G-d. Why choose one over the other?
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:28:39 AM
There is right, there is left. Two hands still, thank G-d. Why choose one over the other?
A physical analogy for a political ideology? Weak.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 07:31:49 AM
A physical analogy for a political ideology? Weak.
Not much to work with, Mr Lewis - Dean Martin
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:32:39 AM
Not much to work with, Mr Lewis - Dean Martin
Oh yeah, that Dean guy, he was sure a thinker.