Ok, technically I'm just a rodman at this point, as I've only been surveying for 6 months, but either way ask me things.
Also, to get it out of the way: I left this forum and others for a bit to focus on IRL concerns. I'm far left politically, but honestly this forum isn't the most "logical" for general politics, much less leftist politics. I recently, apolitically, got back into guns, so if any of you wanna talk to me about that pm me. Otherwise, just ask me questions about my job here.
Welcome back.
What's the craziest thing you've seen while surveying?
Are you still a raging homo?
What is a land surveyor?
And how did you get that thin look in your avatar. Been dying to know that for years.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 01, 2017, 02:07:26 AM
What is a land surveyor?
I too would like to learn just what the hell it is you do.
Where are my property lines?
Why is the word, hectare, in the human language, anyway?
Quote from: SGOS on September 01, 2017, 06:26:22 AM
Why is the word, hectare, in the human language, anyway?
France, 1795 ... don't ask!
Eventually ... Achilles will catch up to Hectare and kill him.
I use land surveyors all the time.....many are them are somewhat annoying and whiny....therefore......
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 31, 2017, 11:10:52 PM
Welcome back.
What's the craziest thing you've seen while surveying?
So far, a full 18 wheeler truck just in the middle of the woods. My boss found a body.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on August 31, 2017, 11:59:23 PM
Are you still a raging homo?
Yes!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 01, 2017, 02:07:26 AM
What is a land surveyor?
And how did you get that thin look in your avatar. Been dying to know that for years.
Basically I tell people where their shit is, or where to put their shit. I use lasers to do this.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on September 01, 2017, 05:53:18 AM
Where are my property lines?
Probably not where your fence is.
Quote from: aitm on September 01, 2017, 10:06:17 AM
I use land surveyors all the time.....many are them are somewhat annoying and whiny....therefore......
Every surveyor down here is just a raging alcoholic.
Did you know Geo. Washington worked as a surveyor? Probably before your time.
If i sit on my doorstep on a hot day and crack open a cold one, can i call myself an amature land surveyor?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 01, 2017, 10:51:53 AM
Did you know Geo. Washington worked as a surveyor? Probably before your time.
3 of the 4 on Rushmore were. Washington was actually considered a shitty surveyor.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 01, 2017, 10:57:58 AM
If i sit on my doorstep on a hot day and crack open a cold one, can i call myself an amature land surveyor?
You need to measure things while you do so.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 01, 2017, 11:17:01 AM
3 of the 4 on Rushmore were. Washington was actually considered a shitty surveyor.You need to measure things while you do so.
I can measure my alcohol intake?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 01, 2017, 11:30:25 AM
I can measure my alcohol intake?
Can anybody measure your alcohol intake?
I worked one fall with the Forest Service Engineers. Kind of a fancy name for surveyors. All we did back then was put in logging roads. It was kind of fun discovering places of beauty in areas I would never have gone on my own. Of course the roads eventually wrecked the beauty, turning great vistas into seas of clear cuts, but I got to see it before that happened. Like you, I was a rodman. Actually, I think the description was Rod and Chain Man. In those days we used actual rods, and measured point to point with a steel chain, which wasn't really a chain, but looked like a Roto-Rooter with measuring marks embedded into it. The bright guy on the crew ran the transit that measured the direction from the last point. The value of a transit these days is probably determined by artifact collectors and junk dealers.
More fun than locating roads was a two year project locating the boundaries of old mining claims, which were established and turned over to private owners who would poke about hoping to find something of value in the dirt back in the late 1800s. None of them ever contained enough minerals to sustain a family, but over the years they would change ownership because some astute gold bug would go to the county court house and find out what claims had been abandoned and left by the owner with unpaid taxes. They could be "purchased for taxes," often for a few hundred dollars, and then eventually be abandoned again. These claims were often 200 acres or more, and eventually became quite valuable as the national forests began to run out of timber, and logging companies were searching harder and harder and going deeper into the woods. The Forest Service needed to know what property wasn't theirs, so they wouldn't be cutting down someone else's trees.
We would work from old surveyor notes, searching for corner stones that were actual rocks inscribed and left face down to protect the inscriptions. There will helpful hints in the notes such as "lying 43 feet 132 degrees from a Douglas Fir with a blaze mark facing the stone." Of course, the trees had often toppled over, but we could sometimes locate the stone with the help of the broken stump. It was like a treasure hunt turning over stones looking for something written on them.
Would you define your homo as raging flaming or pornhubrec level?
Asking the important questions
We built more than roads. Here is a trail visible from this shot using Google Earth. We constructed this two miles of tail starting on the lake on the right to where it disappears into the trees on the top left. We lived at the lake for two summers in wall tents, each with it's own stove, and had our own cook. The trail was planned to go from one end of the divide to the other following the main ridge, probably about 60 miles, but the project was shut down after 7 miles when the government designated the mountain range as wilderness in 1964. The surveying equipment was nothing more than an abney level which fit in your pocket because the only thing we were concerned about was that the trail grade never exceed 10%.
Much of the construction was done with dynamite sometimes 200 sticks at a time. I got to press the button a couple of times, which was always a thrill.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k189/Talaria_42/Divide%20Trail%202_zpsjsv9vdub.jpg)
Yes, I understand that Corp of Engineers knows what C4 is good for ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on September 01, 2017, 11:45:30 AM
I worked one fall with the Forest Service Engineers. Kind of a fancy name for surveyors. All we did back then was put in logging roads. It was kind of fun discovering places of beauty in areas I would never have gone on my own. Of course the roads eventually wrecked the beauty, turning great vistas into seas of clear cuts, but I got to see it before that happened. Like you, I was a rodman. Actually, I think the description was Rod and Chain Man. In those days we used actual rods, and measured point to point with a steel chain, which wasn't really a chain, but looked like a Roto-Rooter with measuring marks embedded into it. The bright guy on the crew ran the transit that measured the direction from the last point. The value of a transit these days is probably determined by artifact collectors and junk dealers.
More fun than locating roads was a two year project locating the boundaries of old mining claims, which were established and turned over to private owners who would poke about hoping to find something of value in the dirt back in the late 1800s. None of them ever contained enough minerals to sustain a family, but over the years they would change ownership because some astute gold bug would go to the county court house and find out what claims had been abandoned and left by the owner with unpaid taxes. They could be "purchased for taxes," often for a few hundred dollars, and then eventually be abandoned again. These claims were often 200 acres or more, and eventually became quite valuable as the national forests began to run out of timber, and logging companies were searching harder and harder and going deeper into the woods. The Forest Service needed to know what property wasn't theirs, so they wouldn't be cutting down someone else's trees.
We would work from old surveyor notes, searching for corner stones that were actual rocks inscribed and left face down to protect the inscriptions. There will helpful hints in the notes such as "lying 43 feet 132 degrees from a Douglas Fir with a blaze mark facing the stone." Of course, the trees had often toppled over, but we could sometimes locate the stone with the help of the broken stump. It was like a treasure hunt turning over stones looking for something written on them.
Cool! My boss started in the steel chain days. I definitely like the exploration aspect of the whole thing.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 01, 2017, 12:27:28 PM
Would you define your homo as raging flaming or pornhubrec level?
Asking the important questions
Define pornhubrec.
(https://i.imgur.com/42H0h5Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GBYV4CZ.jpg)
Some pics of me on the job.
Quote from: Baruch on September 01, 2017, 03:08:04 PM
Yes, I understand that Corp of Engineers knows what C4 is good for ;-)
I never worked for the Corps. But they are even worse than the Forest Service.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 01, 2017, 05:47:09 PM
Define pornhubrec.
Hardcore gay recording for millions to watch on pornhub
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 01, 2017, 06:29:41 PM
Hardcore gay recording for millions to watch on pornhub
I mean, I guess I act like a "typical guy". I'll either shake your hand or kick your ass.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 01, 2017, 06:37:28 PM
I mean, I guess I act like a "typical guy". I'll either shake your hand or kick your ass.
I can keep going with homo questions
I must admit that you look better from the rear.....coming from a straight guy...take it for what it's worth.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 01, 2017, 07:45:18 PM
I can keep going with homo questions
You can but I'm not gonna fuck you.
Neither are any of the girls.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 01, 2017, 09:18:25 PM
You can but I'm not gonna fuck you.
Neither are any of the girls.
I have a girlfriend tho
Back on topic-ish, some guys with nothing better to do reviewed the survey of the Mason-Nixon Line and determined it was way off in places.
Do you still have the same boyfriend?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 02, 2017, 08:31:19 AM
Back on topic-ish, some guys with nothing better to do reviewed the survey of the Mason-Nixon Line and determined it was way off in places.
I've heard about that. The 4 corners monument was found to be about 1000 feet out of place, but because all 4 states had agreed on it for so long it's now the official corner of all 4 states anyways.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on September 02, 2017, 09:42:45 AM
Do you still have the same boyfriend?
Yes
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 02, 2017, 08:31:19 AM
Back on topic-ish, some guys with nothing better to do reviewed the survey of the Mason-Nixon Line and determined it was way off in places.
200+ year old conspiracy theory ... so since Washington was a land speculator (at least in the Ohio Valley) ... maybe he was corruptly defining boundaries for "friends" rather than just being incompetent? American leaders are corrupt as soon as you scratch the surface. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams etc were all corrupt.
Quote from: Baruch on September 02, 2017, 02:21:04 PM
200+ year old conspiracy theory ... so since Washington was a land speculator (at least in the Ohio Valley) ... maybe he was corruptly defining boundaries for "friends" rather than just being incompetent? American leaders are corrupt as soon as you scratch the surface. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams etc were all corrupt.
Never trust a surveyor. They're all crooks, and they want to screw you.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 02, 2017, 02:19:31 PM
I've heard about that. The 4 corners monument was found to be about 1000 feet out of place, but because all 4 states had agreed on it for so long it's now the official corner of all 4 states anyways.
Yes
That's a pretty important corner, but it's out in a desert in the middle of nowhere, and the guy that put it there is dead. I doubt much would change if they put it in the right place. When I was in Arizona, I took a course in Arizona State History, about 80% of which focused on the four states squabbling over water rights. At least they can find agreement on this one thing, which is coincidentally known to be wrong by all parties involved.
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 02:44:37 PM
That's a pretty important corner, but it's out in a desert in the middle of nowhere, and the guy that put it there is dead. I doubt much would change if they put it in the right place. When I was in Arizona, I took a course in Arizona State History, about 80% of which focused on the four states squabbling over water rights. At least they can find agreement on this one thing, which is coincidentally known to be wrong by all parties involved.
Well, when the original surveyors put it there it superseded all prior written descriptions. It's 1000 feet off from where a modern surveyor would put it, but considering that it was shortly after the civil war its really incredible that it's that close.
I like nice neat states, and it's much easier for surveyors to make squares. Look at Colorado. Now look at West Virginia. It may have the worst shape of any state. Hell, they didn't even bother surveying it. They just followed rivers, creeks, cowpaths, and told Ohio and Pennsylvania to finish up as soon as there was any real work needed to be done.
(http://www.ago.wv.gov/gunreciprocity/Documents/mapP.png)
Michigan takes the cake, however. It should be two states. What surveyor came up with the idea of two giant parcels of land separated by hundreds of miles of water and calling it a state? Northern Michigan is farther from Southern Michigan than Russia is from Sara Palin's house. Any idiot can tell it actually belongs to Wisconsin.
And what doofus decided to cut off the top of the Texas Panhandle and give to Oklahoma?
So here's a really basic question: What is that thingy and what does it measure?
Quote from: Mermaid on September 02, 2017, 03:48:32 PM
So here's a really basic question: What is that thingy and what does it measure?
Total station. It's a combination of an electronic theodolite and an electronic distance meter. It uses lasers to measure distance and angles. The one in the pic I posted is a Topcon GTS 3B. It's accurate to within thousandths of a foot. My job is to hold a pole with a prism on it that reflects the laser back to the station.
You know, I have always wondered that, and have never bothered to ask anyone. I learned a thing today!
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 02:28:53 PM
Never trust a surveyor. They're all crooks, and they want to screw you.
Just like any other zoning commission. A case of liquor, and you can get property rezoned, no problemo. No, I am implying that a young George Washington, who at that time wasn't rich, might have taken bribes. He wasn't beyond killing Natives, Frenchmen or treason. What if a part of a neighboring property is desirable ... and you can't easily buy it off the current owner? Just have the property line moves a smidgen. We had a family friend, who bought an undeveloped property in California years ago, and it turned out it had already been sold to someone else.
If someone expects people to be all Gandhi or St Joan of Arc ... they are going to either keep their head up their ass, or be very disappointed. But maybe he was just an incompetent liar, like during the Braddock expedition disaster.
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 02:44:37 PM
That's a pretty important corner, but it's out in a desert in the middle of nowhere, and the guy that put it there is dead. I doubt much would change if they put it in the right place. When I was in Arizona, I took a course in Arizona State History, about 80% of which focused on the four states squabbling over water rights. At least they can find agreement on this one thing, which is coincidentally known to be wrong by all parties involved.
Typical government compromise. Bet it happens everyday in Congress ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 01:52:33 AM
Typical government compromise. Bet it happens everyday in Congress ;-)
Kick the can down the road, and let someone who gives a crap deal with it later on.
Section corners are set with a fairly high degree of mathematical precision and having been a rod and chainman, I know that the measurements require a lot of precision as well. My boss would admonish me if I wasn't pulling the chain hard enough, which would result in a point of measurement being as much as a quarter of an inch off. In a way, 4 states are agreeing to accepting as fact that mathematically 2 + 2 = 5.
Cases of boundary dispute can occur 100 years after the corners are determined. This is not unusual, and a new survey legally reestablishes an old boundary, often to the chagrin of one of the parties involved. If they want to establish the authenticity of the previous corner, there is a process known as a Boundary Adjustment, which requires another survey, and new data to show the required jog to make the math come out correctly.
This could result in 4 sloppy corners that don't meet at 90 degree angles, and much of the hoopla behind the monument comes under question. They could still have a monument dedicated to the flaws of poor measurement, and the celebration of the inadequacy of post Civil War technology. But that would be kind of weird.
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 03:31:12 PM
And what doofus decided to cut off the top of the Texas Panhandle and give to Oklahoma?
The western part of Montana was specifically designed to look like the profile of Hubert H Humphries.
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 08:20:52 AM
The western part of Montana was specifically designed to look like the profile of Hubert H Humphries.
That's some steep rugged country and would have been very hard to survey. I'm guessing someone said, "Lets just say the ridge lines will be the boundary and be done with it."
I always thought Montana's western edge looked like Alfred Hitchcock.
"In a way, 4 states are agreeing to accepting as fact that mathematically 2 + 2 = 5." ... that is how state budgets are calculated in most cases, unless their state constitution makes them balance it out.
Quote from: SGOS on September 02, 2017, 03:28:16 PM
Michigan takes the cake, however. It should be two states. What surveyor came up with the idea of two giant parcels of land separated by hundreds of miles of water and calling it a state? Northern Michigan is farther from Southern Michigan than Russia is from Sara Palin's house. Any idiot can tell it actually belongs to Wisconsin.
This two part Michigan is the result of the Toledo War. From wiki:
"When the Michigan Territory was first established in 1805, it included only the Lower Peninsula and the eastern portion of the Upper Peninsula. In 1819, the territory was expanded to include the remainder of the Upper Peninsula, all of Wisconsin, and part of Minnesota (previously included in the Indiana and Illinois Territories). When Michigan was preparing for statehood in the 1830s, the boundaries proposed corresponded to the original territorial boundaries, with some proposals even leaving the Upper Peninsula out entirely. Meanwhile, the territory was involved in a border dispute with the state of Ohio in a conflict known as the Toledo War.
The people of Michigan approved a constitution in May 1835 and elected state officials in late autumn 1835. Although the state government was not yet recognized by the United States Congress, the territorial government effectively ceased to exist. A constitutional convention of the state legislature refused a compromise to accept the full Upper Peninsula in exchange for ceding the Toledo Strip to Ohio. A second convention, hastily convened by Governor Stevens Thomson Mason, consisting primarily of Mason supporters, agreed in December 1836 to accept the U.P. in exchange for the Toledo Strip."
See, things were so much better when even Territorial Governors were considered C-in-C of their state militias ;-(
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on August 31, 2017, 10:54:20 PM
Ok, technically I'm just a rodman at this point, as I've only been surveying for 6 months, but either way ask me things.
Also, to get it out of the way: I left this forum and others for a bit to focus on IRL concerns. I'm far left politically, but honestly this forum isn't the most "logical" for general politics, much less leftist politics. I recently, apolitically, got back into guns, so if any of you wanna talk to me about that pm me. Otherwise, just ask me questions about my job here.
OK. When I moved here, I built a fence a foot inside the property line on Dad's advice so that I had a legal right to stand outside it to make repairs. The neighbor built a fence keeping me out. How to I re-establish the property line?
I'm serious.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 11:57:22 PM
OK. When I moved here, I built a fence a foot inside the property line on Dad's advice so that I had a legal right to stand outside it to make repairs. The neighbor built a fence keeping me out. How to I re-establish the property line?
I'm serious.
Why would he build a fence, if you already built a fence?
Quote from: SGOS on September 04, 2017, 05:58:33 AM
Why would he build a fence, if you already built a fence?
OK, I originally built a fence around the entire back yard to keep some rather vicious loose neighbor dogs out. I set the fence inside the property line 1 foot because my dad said it was wise to have the outside space for repairs and legal access. Then all the neighbors connected their own fences to mine, shutting off the access I thought I had to my own and taking the 1 foot set-in.
I know where the surveyor's pipes are and I want to reclaim the taken space. How do I do that? I would like the entire yard marked.
Quote from: Baruch on September 01, 2017, 08:52:40 AM
France, 1795 ... don't ask!
Eventually ... Achilles will catch up to Hectare and kill him.
You crack me up sometimes... Achilles/Hector... And I love myrmidons. They turn the soil industrially
I work like a Trojan here ... no, not that kind of Trojan!
on your property dispute ...
1. Ask nicely
2. Approach the local zoning commission
3. Sue his ass
#2 won't work if he is a property developer who has bribed the zoning commission every year at Christmas time. I know, it happened to my parents.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 06:22:29 AM
I know where the surveyor's pipes are and I want to reclaim the taken space. How do I do that? I would like the entire yard marked.
I think you inadvertently created a problem that will eventually have to be disputed. Granted it was intended to avoid an appearance of trespass on your neighbor's property, but it became a one foot no-man's land that your neighbor seized for his own use. Most people put the fence on the property line. Good intentions aside, it's not a good idea leaving a pile of money on a table, or a foot of land lying unused on the ground. Someone always has their eye out looking for a way to get those things, in this case by default, maybe even inadvertent default. This is the kind of thing that leads to boundary disputes in the future. People start assuming they know where the boundary is based on things that have nothing to do with a survey: "I'll tell you where the boundary is. It starts down there by the creek and it goes by those bushes over toward that shed. When the government people came to check the power lines. I showed 'em where the boundary is. It's been there long as I can remember. My Daddy showed it to me 60 years ago."
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 06:22:29 AM
I want to reclaim the taken space. How do I do that? I would like the entire yard marked.
First, discuss it with your neighbor, explain your original intentions, and how you ended up losing the access you intended to provide yourself. I'm guessing he will say it's fine if you come in "his" yard to maintain your fence. That might be workable, but the best solution would be to move the fence to the property line, so there is no question about who's yard belongs to who that can create a permanent misconception down the road. There's no reason to give your neighbor an extra foot, although I'm sure he would accept it.
Aside from moving your fence, there is a second option, and I knew of this happening to a friend of mine. A guy bought the empty lot next to his house, and built his house right on the property line. It didn't bother my friend that this required trespass during construction, which would only be temporary, but the eves of the house ended up extending two feet over the property line, an "unforeseen" circumstance that creates a perplexing problem. Indeed, part of the house (the eve) was on my friend's property. My friend solved the problem by selling the new neighbor two feet off his lot.
The third option is to leave things as is as your father intended. Legally, you still own access to the other side of your fence, but is one foot enough room to maintain a fence without stepping on your neighbor's property inadvertently? You're going to end up trespassing whether you own that other foot or not. I know this is a pedantic quibble, but this is the kind of shit neighbors sometimes fight over.
At any rate, discussion is the first step. I would opt to hold my ground, both literally and metaphorically. A decent neighbor will work with you to make it right. If he won't, see a lawyer, and don't put it off. Some states make provisions of prior use where approved or unnoticed trespass eventually becomes a right of ownership, or at least an official easement to use your property. If your neighbor builds a wood shed with a concrete floor next to your fence, you effectively lose that one foot. You may still own it, but you will never get it back without a legal fight, which may not settle in your favor.
I would try to get that foot back soon. In many states they have some crazy ass law that states if you allow people to use your property long enough, it becomes a legal right of way for them forever.
Quote from: aitm on September 04, 2017, 08:51:34 AM
I would try to get that foot back soon. In many states they have some crazy ass law that states if you allow people to use your property long enough, it becomes a legal right of way for them forever.
Thank you both and you are both quite correct. There is loss of property through disuse. But my neighbor is new, so I might be able to make a legal claim back. My property is surely not a part of the new sale.
I need to discuss it.
Still, my question to the surveyor was about how to get a measurement...
SGOS covered it quite well. I would like to add that if you know where the property markers are, try the diplomatic approach before anything. Even a simple survey like that will still cost a few hundred dollars, and if it enters the legal arena you will absolutely need a survey done.
I mostly do surveys for permits, but the last survey I did for a fencing dispute was a pretty good example of where diplomacy would have saved everyone money. The guy's neighbor was piling dog shit against his fence, insisting that his fence went a few inches over the property line. It turns out that his fence was inside his property line a good 6 inches, so his neighbor was wrong. That's a good deal and everything, but something that could have been solved by inviting your neighbor over for a beer instead cost him about $500.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
Thank you both and you are both quite correct. There is loss of property through disuse. But my neighbor is new, so I might be able to make a legal claim back. My property is surely not a part of the new sale.
I need to discuss it.
Still, my question to the surveyor was about how to get a measurement...
For accurate location and measurements you would need a boundary survey with stakes on line. Essentially the machine will tell us where to put the stakes that show your property line. The surveyor would also locate your fence and see if it's over the line in any spot.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 09:52:31 AM
SGOS covered it quite well. I would like to add that if you know where the property markers are, try the diplomatic approach before anything. Even a simple survey like that will still cost a few hundred dollars, and if it enters the legal arena you will absolutely need a survey done.
I mostly do surveys for permits, but the last survey I did for a fencing dispute was a pretty good example of where diplomacy would have saved everyone money. The guy's neighbor was piling dog shit against his fence, insisting that his fence went a few inches over the property line. It turns out that his fence was inside his property line a good 6 inches, so his neighbor was wrong. That's a good deal and everything, but something that could have been solved by inviting your neighbor over for a beer instead cost him about $500.
A few $100 dollars would be trivial...
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
Still, my question to the surveyor was about how to get a measurement...
You may not need it. The county records, and plats may be all that is needed, but if your neighbor disputes it, the only solution may be another survey, paid for by either you or the neighbor. In the old days, pre GPS, this would probably involve a survey from the nearest brass cap, which officially marks a section corner or a quarter corner. This would determine the correct locations of the rebar or axle that marks the property boundary.
I was surprised to hear recently, that much of the East, like east of the Mississippi River does not have surveyed Townships, and hence, no section corners. If this is true, I don't have any idea how property boundaries would be determined. I did a quick internet search and couldn't confirm this, however. But there has to be some legal redress to solve disputes. Ultimately, there needs to be some fixed locations like the Western brass caps that can be used as an official reference that can be surveyed from. Otherwise property ownership would all be based on "down the road to Joe Barnard's place over to the old windmill past Archer's woods," and nobody would truly have a clue what they owned.
Quote from: SGOS on September 04, 2017, 10:19:38 AM
You may not need it. The county records, and plats may be all that is needed, but if your neighbor disputes it, the only solution may be another survey, paid for by either you or the neighbor. In the old days, pre GPS, this would probably involve a survey from the nearest brass cap, which officially marks a section corner or a quarter corner. This would determine the correct locations of the rebar or axle that marks the property boundary.
I was surprised to hear recently, that much of the East, like east of the Mississippi River does not have surveyed Townships, and hence, no section corners. If this is true, I don't have any idea how property boundaries would be determined. I did a quick internet search and couldn't confirm this, however. But there has to be some legal redress to solve disputes. Ultimately, there needs to be some fixed locations like the Western brass caps that can be used as an official reference that can be surveyed from. Otherwise property ownership would all be based on "down the road to Joe Barnard's place over to the old windmill past Archer's woods," and nobody would truly have a clue what they owned.
Actually, I know exactly where all the survey pipes are inset, and I have a 5 corner property. It should be very easy to establish the lines.
Quote from: SGOS on September 04, 2017, 10:19:38 AM
You may not need it. The county records, and plats may be all that is needed, but if your neighbor disputes it, the only solution may be another survey, paid for by either you or the neighbor. In the old days, pre GPS, this would probably involve a survey from the nearest brass cap, which officially marks a section corner or a quarter corner. This would determine the correct locations of the rebar or axle that marks the property boundary.
I was surprised to hear recently, that much of the East, like east of the Mississippi River does not have surveyed Townships, and hence, no section corners. If this is true, I don't have any idea how property boundaries would be determined. I did a quick internet search and couldn't confirm this, however. But there has to be some legal redress to solve disputes. Ultimately, there needs to be some fixed locations like the Western brass caps that can be used as an official reference that can be surveyed from. Otherwise property ownership would all be based on "down the road to Joe Barnard's place over to the old windmill past Archer's woods," and nobody would truly have a clue what they owned.
There are brass disks here, but they are not as common as out west. I can't speak for other states, but down here if you really needed to the legal description of your property should start from the right of way of some nearby intersection. I really don't use that though, as long as the math works and the pins are there.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 10:23:54 AM
Actually, I know exactly where all the survey pipes are inset, and I have a 5 corner property. It should be very easy to establish the lines.
A plat is still useful just so you can show that those are your pipes in particular.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
There are brass disks here, but they are not as common as out west. I can't speak for other states, but down here if you really needed to the legal description of your property should start from the right of way of some nearby intersection. I really don't use that though, as long as the math works and the pins are there.
I wondered about that.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 10:42:53 AM
A plat is still useful just so you can show that those are your pipes in particular.
Yes, but knowing where start measuring locally is 90% of the problem solved.
Quote from: SGOS on September 04, 2017, 10:52:57 AM
I wondered about that.
Like, I suppose if I was surveying an empty tract of land and I didn't know where it was I'd survey from the right of way, but otherwise as long as I have a plat and an address I can find out where I'm supposed to be. Even in the empty tracts of land I simply use bordering property to establish where I need to be. It helps that I work in the Atlanta area and just about every empty piece of property is bordered by developed properties. If I were in a rural area with just a plat and a legal description I would survey from the intersection, but it's not needed in my day to day work.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 11:27:14 AM
Like, I suppose if I was surveying an empty tract of land and I didn't know where it was I'd survey from the right of way, but otherwise as long as I have a plat and an address I can find out where I'm supposed to be. Even in the empty tracts of land I simply use bordering property to establish where I need to be. It helps that I work in the Atlanta area and just about every empty piece of property is bordered by developed properties. If I were in a rural area with just a plat and a legal description I would survey from the intersection, but it's not needed in my day to day work.
3 Pipes and a plat beats an ace of fences. Right? LOL!
An acre of fences can be a pain in the ass for practical reasons on my end. Pro tip: if you wanna be a surveyor in an area that's both urban and still inexplicably heavily wooded, always carry a machete and learn how to jump a fence. Not everyone does it, but I also carry pepper spray in case I come across any aggressive dogs.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 11:55:59 AM
An acre of fences can be a pain in the ass for practical reasons on my end. Pro tip: if you wanna be a surveyor in an area that's both urban and still inexplicably heavily wooded, always carry a machete and learn how to jump a fence. Not everyone does it, but I also carry pepper spray in case I come across any aggressive dogs.
Figured out surveying on my own with compass and chain and plat copy.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 11:27:14 AM
Like, I suppose if I was surveying an empty tract of land and I didn't know where it was I'd survey from the right of way, but otherwise as long as I have a plat and an address I can find out where I'm supposed to be. Even in the empty tracts of land I simply use bordering property to establish where I need to be. It helps that I work in the Atlanta area and just about every empty piece of property is bordered by developed properties. If I were in a rural area with just a plat and a legal description I would survey from the intersection, but it's not needed in my day to day work.
The last time I looked into in Montana, maybe 20 years ago, 20 acre parcels could be sold by legal description, along the lines of "the west half of the northeast quarter of southwest quarter of section 12, Township xxx, Range xxx", and they were talking about changing that to 40 acres or larger.
My wife and I were considering buying a 20 acre parcel 35 years ago, and it had no corners on it. I was surprised and when I asked the developer, he told me that a legal description was all that was needed. As it turned out, he did hire a couple of unlicensed surveyors to put in some corners, because he was dividing up a quarter section, and buyers wanted to have a better idea of the property lines.
I wish I could have bought it. It was lovely a combination of meadow and woods, a spectacular view of the mountains, and a babbling brook meandering quietly through the middle of the property, but the seller started giving us a run around. His lawyer was vague about things. I didn't know what was going on, and we backed out of the deal. My guess is that he was looking for another buyer to start a bidding war, but that was only my best guess. I really wasn't sure what was going on, and after a month of him hemming and hawing and never getting around to signing the papers, we decided we didn't want to play the game anymore.
At one time I had a little side business doing sanitary reviews for the state when subdivisions were being submitted. People called it getting a perc test, because that was the only visible thing they could see being done beyond the survey itself, but it was more complicated than that, with a lot of documentation, water testing, maps, and research sent to the state. Licensed surveyors would contact me to do this, as the state preferred someone not directly connected to the surveyors, who would have less of a vested interest in passing the reviews of plots not suitable for development.
Surveyors could tell by looking at the land if something wasn't going to be suitable, and tell that to buyers and developers before the survey was done, but there was one outfit that would do the survey first, and worry about suitability after the fact. I refused to work for that company, because it put me in the position of the being the bad guy that cost the seller a bunch of money for a useless survey. However, as it was with the guys I worked for, there was only one or two reviews in several years that the state rejected. Actually, they weren't even submitted. I would take the problem to the County Sanitarian, who would confirm that the project was a no go before I got into the time consuming part, and nobody would be charged anything.
I'll bet like me, you see some nice parcels from time to time that you seriously think about buying yourself. I tested some lake property some insiders had bought from the lumber company. They were making one acre parcels 50 miles out of town in a beautiful location. I asked how much they were going to sell the parcels for, and they told me $30,000 dollars, which I thought was grossly out of line. Two years later they were selling those things for over $100,000 dollars a lot, and I'm still kicking myself.
Quote from: SGOS on September 04, 2017, 12:21:58 PM
The last time I looked into in Montana, maybe 20 years ago, 20 acre parcels could be sold by legal description, along the lines of "the west half of the northeast quarter of southwest quarter of section 12, Township xxx, Range xxx", and they were talking about changing that to 40 acres or larger.
My wife and I were considering buying a 20 acre parcel 35 years ago, and it had no corners on it. I was surprised and when I asked the developer, he told me that a legal description was all that was needed. As it turned out, he did hire a couple of unlicensed surveyors to put in some corners, because he was dividing up a quarter section, and buyers wanted to have a better idea of the property lines.
I wish I could have bought it. It was lovely a combination of meadow and woods, a spectacular view of the mountains, and a babbling brook meandering quietly through the middle of the property, but the seller started giving us a run around. His lawyer was vague about things. I didn't know what was going on, and we backed out of the deal. My guess is that he was looking for another buyer to start a bidding war, but that was only my best guess. I really wasn't sure what was going on, and after a month of him hemming and hawing and never getting around to signing the papers, we decided we didn't want to play the game anymore.
At one time I had a little side business doing sanitary reviews for the state when subdivisions were being submitted. People called it getting a perc test, because that was the only visible thing they could see being done beyond the survey itself, but it was more complicated than that, with a lot of documentation, water testing, maps, and research sent to the state. Licensed surveyors would contact me to do this, as the state preferred someone not directly connected to the surveyors, who would have less of a vested interest in passing the reviews of plots not suitable for development.
Surveyors could tell by looking at the land if something wasn't going to be suitable, and tell that to buyers and developers before the survey was done, but there was one outfit that would do the survey first, and worry about suitability after the fact. I refused to work for that company, because it put me in the position of the being the bad guy that cost the seller a bunch of money for a useless survey. However, as it was with the guys I worked for, there was only one or two reviews in several years that the state rejected. Actually, they weren't even submitted. I would take the problem to the County Sanitarian, who would confirm that the project was a no go before I got into the time consuming part, and nobody would be charged anything.
I'll bet like me, you see some nice parcels from time to time that you seriously think about buying yourself. I tested some lake property some insiders had bought from the lumber company. They were making one acre parcels 50 miles out of town in a beautiful location. I asked how much they were going to sell the parcels for, and they told me $30,000 dollars, which I thought was grossly out of line. Two years later they were selling those things for over $100,000 dollars a lot, and I'm still kicking myself.
Well, it sure beats "along the river". Rivers move...
I see decent parcels all the time. In particular Atlanta is fast turning into a city of luxury houses and apartments, so to anyone owning property in or around Atlanta I'd suggest you hold onto it for a while if you can.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 12:54:34 PM
Well, it sure beats "along the river". Rivers move...
I surveyed one property that had the back property line as the centerline of a creek. You obviously can't do that today, but since it was grandfathered in technically his property gets bigger or smaller every couple of years.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 12:58:13 PM
I surveyed one property that had the back property line as the centerline of a creek. You obviously can't do that today, but since it was grandfathered in technically his property gets bigger or smaller every couple of years.
And I have one property line centered on a drainage easement. I cant tell what happens if erosion moves the drainage easement. LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
And I have one property line centered on a drainage easement. I cant tell what happens if erosion moves the drainage easement. LOL!
I mean if that's the legal definition of your line, then technically it moves.
Edit: getting that rectified would require a new survey to establish a permanent line, and would depend on state, county, and local laws.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 12:54:56 PM
I see decent parcels all the time. In particular Atlanta is fast turning into a city of luxury houses and apartments, so to anyone owning property in or around Atlanta I'd suggest you hold onto it for a while if you can.
Atlanta had a bad drought a few years ago, guess things are back to normal now?
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 01:16:24 PM
Atlanta had a bad drought a few years ago, guess things are back to normal now?
We're out of the drought, now we just have an influx of rich hipsters gentrifying everything in sight.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 04, 2017, 01:15:59 PM
I mean if that's the legal definition of your line, then technically it moves.
Edit: getting that rectified would require a new survey to establish a permanent line, and would depend on state, county, and local laws.
I THOUGHT I'd catch you on that. The property line is established. Through the drainage easement, to be sure. But the easement can wander and it doesn't change the property line...
Study harder...
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2017, 04:04:06 AM
I THOUGHT I'd catch you on that. The property line is established. Through the drainage easement, to be sure. But the easement can wander and it doesn't change the property line...
Study harder...
That was more of a reading comprehension fail than a surveying fail.
Anyways, I'm starting to learn how to use the instrument. Yesterday I set up the station!
Also yesterday was a rather easy one because all the property corners were already dug up and marked. These people apparently wanted to flip a house and decided to save money by getting a simple boundary survey and then renovating and adding without getting a permit. What they didn't consider is that Atlanta is fucking brutal when it comes to permits. So we go out there, everything is cleared and marked by the previous surveyors, and all we really had to do was the as-built part so they could get the proper permits.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 08, 2017, 04:54:25 PM
That was more of a reading comprehension fail than a surveying fail.
Anyways, I'm starting to learn how to use the instrument. Yesterday I set up the station!
Also yesterday was a rather easy one because all the property corners were already dug up and marked. These people apparently wanted to flip a house and decided to save money by getting a simple boundary survey and then renovating and adding without getting a permit. What they didn't consider is that Atlanta is fucking brutal when it comes to permits. So we go out there, everything is cleared and marked by the previous surveyors, and all we really had to do was the as-built part so they could get the proper permits.
You seem to be getting the basics down. Good. But, while I like you, you seem to be getting more than you were ready for on the "Ask Me Things". LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on September 11, 2017, 01:05:45 AM
You seem to be getting the basics down. Good. But, while I like you, you seem to be getting more than you were ready for on the "Ask Me Things". LOL!
Eh, pretty much what I expected down to the questions about my sexuality.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on September 11, 2017, 05:40:39 AM
Eh, pretty much what I expected down to the questions about my sexuality.
What?