It is an apocryphal book.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/bar.htm
Yep ... and Baruch was the name of the secretary (amanuensis) of the prophet Jeremiah. Sometimes Paul used a secretary to write out his thoughts in his letters to the churches, the secretary adding his little bit at the end of the letter.
Quote from: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 11:49:40 PM
Yep ... and Baruch was the name of the secretary (amanuensis) of the prophet Jeremiah. Sometimes Paul used a secretary to write out his thoughts in his letters to the churches, the secretary adding his little bit at the end of the letter.
Ah well, the secretaries do some work. Credit acceptable. And "secretaries" in both the old and new sense...
Can anyone understand what they read?
Deut32:39
See now that I, yes I, am he;
there is no god beside me.
I put to death and I make alive;
I wound and I heal.
No one saves anyone from my hand!
Part of a longer poem, called the Song of Moses.
If one understands it, then one can see its value as an elliptical statement about reality. Just as understanding Macbeth, the play by Shakespeare, will help you understand the destructive power of giving into ambition.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 12:01:58 AM
Can anyone understand what they read?
Deut32:39
See now that I, yes I, am he;
there is no god beside me.
I put to death and I make alive;
I wound and I heal.
No one saves anyone from my hand!
Part of a longer poem, called the Song of Moses.
If one understands it, then one can see its value as an elliptical statement about reality. Just as understanding Macbeth, the play by Shakespeare, will help you understand the destructive power of giving into ambition.
Read rather literally, it says" See now that I, yes I, am he;
there is no god beside me.
I put to death and I make alive;
I wound and I heal.
No one saves anyone from my hand!
Meaning the only god, killer, wounder, unavoidable. And changer of his actions.
That is a pretty standard deity. As we post on in days, you show more and more often that you are just another standard christian, threatening all of us with punishment for lacking your faith in the supernatural.
Why are you actually here? You are just another theist bothering a group of atheists who wish to talk to each other. Other than trying to trying to convert we atheists more eruditely than most evangelical theists, what is your point? You aren't going to convert ME or most of the posters here.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 12:01:58 AM
Can anyone understand what they read?
Deut32:39
See now that I, yes I, am he;
there is no god beside me.
I put to death and I make alive;
I wound and I heal.
No one saves anyone from my hand!
Part of a longer poem, called the Song of Moses.
If one understands it, then one can see its value as an elliptical statement about reality. Just as understanding Macbeth, the play by Shakespeare, will help you understand the destructive power of giving into ambition.
God is just bragging about how badass he is. He's the one who gives lives and takes it away. He holds all power, and resistance is futile. This is the same god who thought it'd be a good idea to plague Egypt every time the Pharaoh refused to release the Hebrews, while simultaneously performing mind control in order to prevent the Pharaoh from giving in too soon. The entire point of all of that was so that God could show off his super powers.
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 01:44:55 AM
God is just bragging about how badass he is. He's the one who gives lives and takes it away. He holds all power, and resistance is futile. This is the same god who thought it'd be a good idea to plague Egypt every time the Pharaoh refused to release the Hebrews, while simultaneously performing mind control in order to prevent the Pharaoh from giving in too soon. The entire point of all of that was so that God could show off his super powers.
Well said! No theist can speak other of a deity than mentioning the all-power and all-control demanded over its adherents. I have no use for that nonsense.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 01:22:02 AM
Read rather literally, it says" See now that I, yes I, am he;
there is no god beside me.
I put to death and I make alive;
I wound and I heal.
No one saves anyone from my hand!
Meaning the only god, killer, wounder, unavoidable. And changer of his actions.
That is a pretty standard deity. As we post on in days, you show more and more often that you are just another standard christian, threatening all of us with punishment for lacking your faith in the supernatural.
Why are you actually here? You are just another theist bothering a group of atheists who wish to talk to each other. Other than trying to trying to convert we atheists more eruditely than most evangelical theists, what is your point? You aren't going to convert ME or most of the posters here.
Deuteronomy is a Jewish scripture. Originally Christianity was a Jewish heresy, and I suspect so was Islam. Our most important product was two of the largest heresies so far ;-)
As a Jew I don't convert. Even if you were Jewish, I wouldn't try to convert you to more orthodox belief/practice. Even if I was Israeli (am not), I wouldn't try to get you to join Likud. I used an example of a scriptural text, as an example of writing ... which I don't think most people here would understand (anymore than most of us would understand an equation from QFT). But English is more accessible as an example than QFT. So you missed the point. No problemo ... it wasn't for you anyway. You continue to project your paranoia ... that is a medical concern, not a philosophical or other concern. Us old guys tend to develop problems, I know myself it is true.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:44:38 PM
Deuteronomy is a Jewish scripture. Originally Christianity was a Jewish heresy, and I suspect so was Islam. Our most important product was two of the largest heresies so far ;-)
As a Jew I don't convert. Even if you were Jewish, I wouldn't try to convert you to more orthodox belief/practice. Even if I was Israeli (am not), I wouldn't try to get you to join Likud. I used an example of a scriptural text, as an example of writing ... which I don't think most people here would understand (anymore than most of us would understand an equation from QFT). But English is more accessible as an example than QFT. So you missed the point. No problemo ... it wasn't for you anyway. You continue to project your paranoia ... that is a medical concern, not a philosophical or other concern. Us old guys tend to develop problems, I know myself it is true.
Some of those Jews are rather peeved that Christians stole the OT to use as the warped prerequisite for the NT. Are you a peeved Jew, Baruch? I wouldn't blame you.
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 23, 2017, 01:44:55 AM
God is just bragging about how badass he is. He's the one who gives lives and takes it away. He holds all power, and resistance is futile. This is the same god who thought it'd be a good idea to plague Egypt every time the Pharaoh refused to release the Hebrews, while simultaneously performing mind control in order to prevent the Pharaoh from giving in too soon. The entire point of all of that was so that God could show off his super powers.
My G-d ... as I defined it to the new young guy today ... is bad ass. Life is bad ass (tautology since G-d is Life). Get over it. I don't like it either, but I have to call it as I see it, not run away and hide in my safe space like a Millennial. Thank G-d my parent's generation didn't behave that way ... but maybe they hadn't drunk so much fluoridated water in their youth.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 03:46:34 PM
Some of those Jews are rather peeved that Christians stole the OT to use as the warped prerequisite for the NT. Are you a peeved Jew, Baruch? I wouldn't blame you.
I am open minded. But yes, there are some Jews (see Likud) who would exterminate every Gentile off the planet, starting with the Christians .. or maybe it is the Muslims ... it is hard to keep up with Israeli politics ;-(
Quote from: Cavebear on September 23, 2017, 01:56:23 AM
Well said! No theist can speak other of a deity than mentioning the all-power and all-control demanded over its adherents. I have no use for that nonsense.
Americans in particular, think they are individuals with solipsistic powers. Of course we can't stand anyone with power over us, though that power exists. Wage slavery, debt slavery ... it would be a relief to have a G-d be the asshole, rather than the ape men ...
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
My G-d ... as I defined it to the new young guy today ... is bad ass. Life is bad ass (tautology since G-d is Life). Get over it. I don't like it either, but I have to call it as I see it, not run away and hide in my safe space like a Millennial. Thank G-d my parent's generation didn't behave that way ... but maybe they hadn't drunk so much fluoridated water in their youth.
Hopefully, the G-d who exists solely in your mind does not have "monstrous tyrant" attached to his resume, but you still might be one of those apologetic Jews who excuses such abhorrent behavior for badassery.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
Americans in particular, think they are individuals with solipsistic powers. Of course we can't stand anyone with power over us, though that power exists. Wage slavery, debt slavery ... it would be a relief to have a G-d be the asshole, rather than the ape men ...
No doubt, man is to blame. He created G-d, after all. Of course, those men who believe in G-d are also to blame, for they just love to do things in that G-d's name.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 03:53:43 PM
Hopefully, the G-d who exists solely in your mind does not have "monstrous tyrant" attached to his resume, but you still might be one of those apologetic Jews who excuses such abhorrent behavior for badassery.
A real Jew is about ethics. So can never be Likud. Can never rationalize obviously bad behavior. That is why Israel is doomed ... it is evil. In the 20th century, some hurting Jews looked into the Abyss, and the Abyss looked back into them and took them over, killed their Jewish soul.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 03:54:51 PM
No doubt, man is to blame. He created G-d, after all. Of course, those men who believe in G-d are also to blame, for they just love to do things in that G-d's name.
I agree. The degree of agency of any god is questionable, including the fictional ones. Is a fictional person in your head, an agent? If you think you are a super-hero ... who is at fault of you try to fly off the roof with your cape flapping? This is why it is important to have good, mature archetypes. This is also why we mythologize real people, because their actual reality isn't viable as an archetype.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:01:45 PM
A real Jew is about ethics. So can never be Likud. Can never rationalize obviously bad behavior. That is why Israel is doomed ... it is evil. In the 20th century, some hurting Jews looked into the Abyss, and the Abyss looked back into them and took them over, killed their Jewish soul.
For a Jew who cares about Ethics, do you believe atheists or theists have a stronger hold on the ethics front?
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 04:25:13 PM
For a Jew who cares about Ethics, do you believe atheists or theists have a stronger hold on the ethics front?
The problem is ape men. What actually makes people tick? A psychological problem that. I think the get out of jail free card (G-d made me do it) is definitely unethical, and theists have that at their disposal. Militant religious people in particular. So for them, whatever individual demons move them, theism isn't an improvement. One can be ethical without religion or theism ... but the problem with ethics doesn't go away with a swish of the naturalism magic wand. As I have posted before, people have the ability to develop a conscience, and should do so. It requires care and feeding to grow stronger. If you do that, then you will grow ethical, morally, legally (in the objective sense). But it isn't easy being a ape man.
BTW - Spinoza's major work was an attempt to put ethics on a secular Euclidean basis. There was very little god in his G-d. And I am not too different .. hence the choice of avatar.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:36:36 PM
As I have posted before, people have the ability to develop a conscience, and should do so.
I agree with that. Except, of course, in the case of psychopaths who psychologically have no conscience.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 04:38:52 PM
I agree with that. Except, of course, in the case of psychopaths who psychologically have no conscience.
That approximately seems to be the case. Psychology isn't an exact science. Humanity is an ecology of different kinds of people filling many nitches. Someone has to be the garbage collector ... just as there has to be vermin who clean up the detritus and dead bodies. I am not sure that puritanism wouldn't cause us to prematurely eliminate classes of people who only seem superficially undesirable to us. It is possible that Hitler and Stalin were necessary, in which case I hate my G-d with a passion!
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 04:53:58 PM
It is possible that Hitler and Stalin were necessary, in which case I hate my G-d with a passion!
Most reasonable people would no longer place any sort of necessary belief in that G-d.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 04:56:39 PM
Most reasonable people would no longer place any sort of necessary belief in that G-d.
That is puritanical prejudice or virtue signaling. I am in favor of ethics, but under no illusion that I am ethical. I am not sufficiently flexible to go off into fantasy land because reality sucks. Reality would still suck, even without a G-d.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 05:26:44 PM
That is puritanical prejudice or virtue signaling. I am in favor of ethics, but under no illusion that I am ethical. I am not sufficiently flexible to go off into fantasy land because reality sucks. Reality would still suck, even without a G-d.
Reality is reality with or without a belief in G-d.
Only those with the belief in G-d presume to think reality is impossible without G-d.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 05:28:38 PM
Reality is reality with or without a belief in G-d.
Only those with the belief in G-d presume to think reality is impossible without G-d.
Irrelevant to the overall suckitude ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 05:31:13 PM
Irrelevant to the overall suckitude ;-(
Suck it up, bitch.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 05:35:18 PM
Suck it up, bitch.
Yeah, not virtue signaling, but beef-cake signaling ... be a real man, be an atheist ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 05:36:38 PM
Yeah, not virtue signaling, but beef-cake signaling ... be a real man, be an atheist ;-)
No, just be a real man who accepts that some things are out of your control and that maybe resorting to a fantasy is not the solution.
Quote from: Sorginak on September 23, 2017, 05:37:47 PM
No, just be a real man who accepts that some things are out of your control and that maybe resorting to a fantasy is not the solution.
I couldn't agree more. Hence my hatred of politics. All the candidates should have to dress like IT.
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2017, 03:44:38 PM
Deuteronomy is a Jewish scripture. Originally Christianity was a Jewish heresy, and I suspect so was Islam.
DUH! You "suspect" that because Christianity and Islam use the same prophets and history there MIGHT have been a connection?
Let me help you understand a few other things. Many tree leaves are green. Some roses are red. Most cars run on gas.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 28, 2017, 04:07:13 AM
DUH! You "suspect" that because Christianity and Islam use the same prophets and history there MIGHT have been a connection?
Let me help you understand a few other things. Many tree leaves are green. Some roses are red. Most cars run on gas.
I was being nice. Are you going to give us a lecture on the Rothschilds next, hum?
Quote from: Baruch on September 28, 2017, 07:21:27 AM
I was being nice. Are you going to give us a lecture on the Rothschilds next, hum?
You were being insultingly obvious. You are only the 2nd most intelligent person on the forum.
Quote from: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 11:49:40 PM
Yep ... and Baruch was the name of the secretary (amanuensis) of the prophet Jeremiah. Sometimes Paul used a secretary to write out his thoughts in his letters to the churches, the secretary adding his little bit at the end of the letter.
Yeah, yeah, but what's on everyone's mind is can you take shorthand on your clantily clad thigh? Wait..scantily? Yeah, that's the ticket..your scantily clad thigh.. I haven't had enough coffee this morning yet.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 28, 2017, 07:24:25 AM
You were being insultingly obvious. You are only the 2nd most intelligent person on the forum.
Well, you improve your stature by not taking up my challenge. There are only Republicans hiding under your bed ;-)
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 28, 2017, 07:26:24 AM
Yeah, yeah, but what's on everyone's mind is can you take shorthand on your clantily clad thigh?
As in the four horsemen of the Apocalypse? Don't go there, I would love genocide too much ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 28, 2017, 07:27:52 AM
As in the four horsemen of the Apocalypse? Don't go there, I would love genocide too much ;-)
Sorry, I prefer my secretaries scantily clad and not riding around on big mean looking horses scaring the brethren..
Quote from: Baruch on September 28, 2017, 07:27:02 AM
Well, you improve your stature by not taking up my challenge. There are only Republicans hiding under your bed ;-)
My king-size waterbed with drawers under it allows no room for Republicans. I might check the deck though. They love BBQ's.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 28, 2017, 07:30:40 AM
Sorry, I prefer my secretaries scantily clad and not riding around on big mean looking horses scaring the brethren..
Sorry, I don't look too good in a short pin-stipe skirt or tight business dress ;-) You should have seen me in my youth ... hoot, hoot ;-)
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 28, 2017, 07:30:40 AM
Sorry, I prefer my secretaries scantily clad and not riding around on big mean looking horses scaring the brethren..
You mean like 5'4" and weighing 120 pounds soaking wet, wearing shorts?
Like I was at 14? LOL!