Atheistforums.com

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:25:19 AM

Title: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:25:19 AM
Two things that calms me down is My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and Bob Ross videos.

Here is one of things Bob Ross does, beat the devil out of that brush. I watch Bob Ross because watching someone talk while painting is nice.

I dunno, just wondering?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 21, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
Yeah, you're definitely a troll. But to address your question, I am not offended by the mere mention or use of religion. I've even made up a few religions for a video game I'm making. Myths can be fun when approached as they should be: as works of fiction. They have no place in politics or child rearing.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 21, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
Yeah, you're definitely a troll. But to address your question, I am not offended by the mere mention or use of religion. I've even made up a few religions for a video game I'm making. Myths can be fun when approached as they should be: as works of fiction. They have no place in politics or child rearing.
But thats what memes are. Example parents brainwashes religion right? But new generation of parents brainwashes LGBT to kids. Its ideological childhood, environment and culture that shapes people from what i get.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Sorginak on August 21, 2017, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
But new generation of paretns brainwashes LGBT to kids.

Ummm, no.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:44:34 AM
Quote from: Sorginak on August 21, 2017, 11:38:35 AM
Ummm, no.
I've seen it online with a kid entering LGBT Pride with parents waving LGBT flags though. But in reality i dont think its my place to tell people other than religion being some organization in general, but i dont wanna go off topic and i dont wanna try to throw people under the fence either.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 21, 2017, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
But thats what memes are. Example parents brainwashes religion right? But new generation of parents brainwashes LGBT to kids. Its ideological childhood, environment and culture that shapes people from what i get.
Well, you get wrong.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
But thats what memes are. Example parents brainwashes religion right? But new generation of parents brainwashes LGBT to kids. Its ideological childhood, environment and culture that shapes people from what i get.


I don't think you quite get the concept of "brainwashing."
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Hydra009 on August 21, 2017, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:44:34 AMI've seen it online with a kid entering LGBT Pride with parents waving LGBT flags though.
Parents recruit their kids in all kinds of political stuff, from protesting for gay rights to protesting against gay rights.  Hell, the Westboro Baptists have used kids to hold their signs.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Sorginak on August 21, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 21, 2017, 05:13:13 PM
Parents recruit their kids in all kinds of political stuff, from protesting for gay rights to protesting against gay rights.  Hell, the Westboro Baptists have used kids to hold their signs.

Don't be fueling her ill logic.  If anything, the parents are supporting their gay children by attending the gay pride events.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2017, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
But thats what memes are. Example parents brainwashes religion right? But new generation of parents brainwashes LGBT to kids. Its ideological childhood, environment and culture that shapes people from what i get.

Unfortunately, politics has trumped tradition.  You can support or trash tradition based on political advantage.  We live in a more barbaric age, but with better technology.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 22, 2017, 09:10:58 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 21, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
Yeah, you're definitely a troll. But to address your question, I am not offended by the mere mention or use of religion. I've even made up a few religions for a video game I'm making. Myths can be fun when approached as they should be: as works of fiction. They have no place in politics or child rearing.

Barring illegal abuse or mistreatment aren't you in favor of parents raising their children as they see fit? Its odd how you reject religion yet sound like the Taliban in how you want only your beliefs and views to be acceptable.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: fencerider on August 23, 2017, 12:23:47 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 22, 2017, 09:10:58 PM
Barring illegal abuse or mistreatment aren't you in favor of parents raising their children as they see fit? Its odd how you reject religion yet sound like the Taliban in how you want only your beliefs and views to be acceptable.

But why should you accept from others what you think is wrong? Case in point I didn't hear about Santa Claus until 7th grade. Never heard anything about the Easter Bunny until Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs. When I heard about Santa for the first time I asked my mom about it. My first reaction to her explanation was why would anyone say something so stupid to their kids. My sister was listening and we looked at each other with a big wtf look on our face.

I aint about to say its ok for anyone to lie to their kids about Santa. I can understand someone like Cavebear that grew up with out any religion saying its wrong for anyone to teach that stuff to their kids.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2017, 07:05:06 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 22, 2017, 09:10:58 PM
Barring illegal abuse or mistreatment aren't you in favor of parents raising their children as they see fit? Its odd how you reject religion yet sound like the Taliban in how you want only your beliefs and views to be acceptable.

No, parents should give their children over to be raised in Marxist Youth camps ;-)
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2017, 07:07:17 AM
Quote from: fencerider on August 23, 2017, 12:23:47 AM
But why should you accept from others what you think is wrong? Case in point I didn't hear about Santa Claus until 7th grade. Never heard anything about the Easter Bunny until Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs. When I heard about Santa for the first time I asked my mom about it. My first reaction to her explanation was why would anyone say something so stupid to their kids. My sister was listening and we looked at each other with a big wtf look on our face.

I aint about to say its ok for anyone to lie to their kids about Santa. I can understand someone like Cavebear that grew up with out any religion saying its wrong for anyone to teach that stuff to their kids.

"But why should you accept from others what you think is wrong?" ... I think being a Democrat is wrong.  So I should lobby my Congressman to have them all arrested, right?  Rights come from the barrel of a government gun.  See if the gloves come off, there is no more discussion ... let alone polite discussion.  Just mobs, may the best mob win.  Yes, make it illegal for parents to lie ... like lie about the USA (or other native country) ... lie about their political party (doesn't matter which).  First to achieve French/Russian revolution, we must seize control of the children, because they are the future.  The people who are anti-marriage, anti-family, anti-parenting will have their way.  Sociopaths of the world unite!
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 07:38:48 AM
Quote from: fencerider on August 23, 2017, 12:23:47 AM
But why should you accept from others what you think is wrong? Case in point I didn't hear about Santa Claus until 7th grade. Never heard anything about the Easter Bunny until Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs. When I heard about Santa for the first time I asked my mom about it. My first reaction to her explanation was why would anyone say something so stupid to their kids. My sister was listening and we looked at each other with a big wtf look on our face.

I aint about to say its ok for anyone to lie to their kids about Santa. I can understand someone like Cavebear that grew up with out any religion saying its wrong for anyone to teach that stuff to their kids.
You were raised on Mars?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 07:39:52 AM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:25:19 AM
Two things that calms me down is My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and Bob Ross videos.

Here is one of things Bob Ross does, beat the devil out of that brush. I watch Bob Ross because watching someone talk while painting is nice.

I dunno, just wondering?

It's a euphemism for "beating the shit out of them".
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 23, 2017, 08:58:41 AM
Quote from: fencerider on August 23, 2017, 12:23:47 AM
But why should you accept from others what you think is wrong? Case in point I didn't hear about Santa Claus until 7th grade. Never heard anything about the Easter Bunny until Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs. When I heard about Santa for the first time I asked my mom about it. My first reaction to her explanation was why would anyone say something so stupid to their kids. My sister was listening and we looked at each other with a big wtf look on our face.

I aint about to say its ok for anyone to lie to their kids about Santa. I can understand someone like Cavebear that grew up with out any religion saying its wrong for anyone to teach that stuff to their kids.
You are a guy of logic--I usually  like what I read.  But I have to draw the line here!  "...Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs."  Those 'crappy' eggs are the only legit reason for easter!  I must confess--love those things.  My wife used to insist on an Easter pinata--pity the kids that got in my way when that thing opened up and those eggs fell to the ground.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 12:35:38 PM
I call bullshit on not hearing of Santa if OP is in the US. Commercialization of holidays requires obnoxious intrusions of Santa figures everywhere.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 23, 2017, 01:53:48 PM
I think encouraging kids to believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy is just a way for Christian parents prime them for later belief in Jesus. Apparently, it usually works quite well.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 23, 2017, 01:53:48 PM
I think encouraging kids to believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy is just a way for Christian parents prime them for later belief in Jesus. Apparently, it usually works quite well.
The ones who grow up and realize Santa is a lie will question everything else their parents have told them.

If they're smart enough, that is.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 23, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: fencerider on August 23, 2017, 12:23:47 AM
I aint about to say its ok for anyone to lie to their kids about Santa. I can understand someone like Cavebear that grew up with out any religion saying its wrong for anyone to teach that stuff to their kids.

He can disagree and apply it to his own situation. As I said barring anything illegal or abusive parents should be free to bring up children as they see fit without government interference. Secondly for all atheists know the belief we owe our existence to mindless forces and happenstance is a myth. Complete faith in it being true doesn't make it a fact.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2017, 07:03:35 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 23, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
He can disagree and apply it to his own situation. As I said barring anything illegal or abusive parents should be free to bring up children as they see fit without government interference. Secondly for all atheists know the belief we owe our existence to mindless forces and happenstance is a myth. Complete faith in it being true doesn't make it a fact.

But but ... atheists are the Brights, the real chosen people ;-)  You have people who think that everything is material.  On the other end you have people who think that everything is spiritual.  Usually extremists are wrong.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 07:45:51 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 23, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
He can disagree and apply it to his own situation. As I said barring anything illegal or abusive parents should be free to bring up children as they see fit without government interference. Secondly for all atheists know the belief we owe our existence to mindless forces and happenstance is a myth. Complete faith in it being true doesn't make it a fact.
My hillbilly cousins would applaud.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on August 23, 2017, 09:05:01 PM
Quote from: Agro on August 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM
Its ideological childhood, environment and culture that shapes people from what i get.

I suppose it is possible to get a straight kid to go full blown gay....but I really doubt it.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 23, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 23, 2017, 07:03:35 PM
But but ... atheists are the Brights, the real chosen people ;-)  You have people who think that everything is material.  On the other end you have people who think that everything is spiritual.  Usually extremists are wrong.
That's because extremists tend not look to the real wold for confirmation of their extreme ideas. Materialism is different: we've looked extremely hard for the nonmaterial, and when nothing turns up after centuries of earnest looking, "Well, maybe it doesn't exist after all," becomes the only reasonable position.

And when you see theist after theist present dumb argument after dumb argument, and often the exact same dumb argument, it becomes difficult not to think of yourself as brighter than them.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2017, 07:02:38 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 23, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
That's because extremists tend not look to the real wold for confirmation of their extreme ideas. Materialism is different: we've looked extremely hard for the nonmaterial, and when nothing turns up after centuries of earnest looking, "Well, maybe it doesn't exist after all," becomes the only reasonable position.

And when you see theist after theist present dumb argument after dumb argument, and often the exact same dumb argument, it becomes difficult not to think of yourself as brighter than them.

Yes, and you come to your conclusions about materialism ... thru Baysian (not frequency) statisics ... bwahaha.  I got a Hillary Wins in 2016 sticker for you ;-))
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 24, 2017, 11:35:42 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 22, 2017, 09:10:58 PM
Barring illegal abuse or mistreatment aren't you in favor of parents raising their children as they see fit? Its odd how you reject religion yet sound like the Taliban in how you want only your beliefs and views to be acceptable.

If you want to raise children, you should use actual facts and evidence when deciding how to raise them, not a barbaric book of myths. We've known for decades that spanking is counterproductive, that it increases bad behavior and has ZERO benefits. Yet Christians insist on using it because the Bible says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Religious parents are also likely to leave their homosexual children homeless. The Bible is a horrible source for parenting advice.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2017, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 23, 2017, 07:45:51 PM
My hillbilly cousins would applaud.
If they could figure out how...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 24, 2017, 05:36:33 PM
Quote from: aitm on August 23, 2017, 09:05:01 PM
I suppose it is possible to get a straight kid to go full blown gay....but I really doubt it.
hehe "blown" hehe
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 24, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 24, 2017, 02:06:08 PM
If they could figure out how...
Some of them have advanced degrees in pattycake.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 24, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 24, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
Some of them have advanced degrees in pattycake.
That would be a good degree for a wife (or girl friend) to have--don't you think????
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 24, 2017, 06:53:43 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 24, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
That would be a good degree for a wife (or girl friend) to have--don't you think????
It's the best they can do considering they would never be admitted to a University that didn't have "Baptist" in the name.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 24, 2017, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 24, 2017, 06:53:43 PM
It's the best they can do considering they would never be admitted to a University that didn't have "Baptist" in the name.
Not speaking of that 'degree'--look up pattycake in the urban dictionary.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: fencerider on August 24, 2017, 11:12:14 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 23, 2017, 08:58:41 AM
Cadbury was making a commercial for their crappy chocolate eggs."  Those 'crappy' eggs are the only legit reason for easter!  I must confess--love those things.

At least you don't have to worry about me taking them... all the more for you
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 24, 2017, 11:40:02 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 23, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
That's because extremists tend not look to the real wold for confirmation of their extreme ideas. Materialism is different: we've looked extremely hard for the nonmaterial, and when nothing turns up after centuries of earnest looking, "Well, maybe it doesn't exist after all," becomes the only reasonable position.

And they've looked just as hard for a materialist explanation of all we observe in the universe and have failed to find it...well maybe a materialistic explanation doesn't exist? 


Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 24, 2017, 11:49:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 24, 2017, 11:35:42 AM
If you want to raise children, you should use actual facts and evidence when deciding how to raise them, not a barbaric book of myths. We've known for decades that spanking is counterproductive, that it increases bad behavior and has ZERO benefits. Yet Christians insist on using it because the Bible says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Religious parents are also likely to leave their homosexual children homeless. The Bible is a horrible source for parenting advice.

What guide would you use or do you suggest? What moral values should parents teach there children?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 25, 2017, 12:28:32 AM
Quote from: fencerider on August 24, 2017, 11:12:14 PM
At least you don't have to worry about me taking them... all the more for you
Thanks.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 12:51:07 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 24, 2017, 11:49:12 PM
What guide would you use or do you suggest? What moral values should parents teach there children?

Know and act out good values.  Then when your children copy you, they will be copying the good stuff.  Arguing with them, Nicomanchean Ethics ... won't work very well.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 25, 2017, 10:39:36 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 24, 2017, 11:49:12 PM
What guide would you use or do you suggest? What moral values should parents teach there children?

If I were to use any book as a source for parenting advice, I'd pick one by an author with a significant education in psychology, preferably a doctorate. I wouldn't trust anyone else to know what they're talking about. Others would just be relying on anecdotal data, tradition, and/or the Bible.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 25, 2017, 10:39:36 AM
If I were to use any book as a source for parenting advice, I'd pick one by an author with a significant education in psychology, preferably a doctorate. I wouldn't trust anyone else to know what they're talking about. Others would just be relying on anecdotal data, tradition, and/or the Bible.

What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?

Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 25, 2017, 10:54:50 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?
If they are admonishments, they would be okay.  But if you demonstrate them, that would be effective.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 25, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?
My other post about this. :)
--Lying is not universally bad.  We can all think of situations where to tell the truth as you see it would simply hurt feelings.  That could simply be seen as thoughtless and cruel.
   Yes, honesty is the best policy--generally.  This is where modeling for children is important.   They will see what you do and that will be truly instructive for them.
--stealing.  Generally not good.  But if your family is starving and stealing food is the only way to get, then one would steal.  Far fetched?  Maybe--but look around the world.
--Hurting others.  It is best not to inflict pain needlessly.  But if my family, pets or friends are in harms way and the only way to keep them safe is to inflict pain, then I will do all in my power to inflict that pain.
----Disrespecting parents is generally not good.  But what if  they beat you daily or worse.  Do abusive parents deserve respect?  Don't think so.
---Laziness---being lazy all the time is not good.  But working all the time is not good either.  Children need to learn to respect work--and to respect rest, and how to balance the two.
----Respect authority figures of all kinds.  Unless those figures (whether individuals or govt.) misuse their authority.  Are there not times when you want your children to be able to tell an authority figure that what they are doing or want to do is not appropriate? 
---And yes, the golden rule is a great concept to teach children.

All of these concepts will be modeled (for good or ill; perfectly or not so perfectly) by you and that is when your children will learn the most and take those lessons to heart more than just hearing a parent tell them what to do and how to do it.  I found it difficult to tell my child an ironclad rule or way to proceed in every instance.  So, I used the golden rule most of the time; how would you like to be treated in 'x' situation and why.  It is not easy, but it is worth the effort.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 11:51:48 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 25, 2017, 10:39:36 AM
If I were to use any book as a source for parenting advice, I'd pick one by an author with a significant education in psychology, preferably a doctorate. I wouldn't trust anyone else to know what they're talking about. Others would just be relying on anecdotal data, tradition, and/or the Bible.

But Dr Spock would suggest parents raise their babies as little Vulcans ;-)
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 26, 2017, 01:48:16 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?

What Mike said. Morality is subjective, and children should be taught that they should approach each situation individually when able. Young children aren't capable of understanding the complexities of subjective morality at first, but they will grow to understand it in time. Provided, of course, that they are raised in a healthy learning environment, not a Conservative Christian environment which may stunt their growth.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 02:06:57 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?
They are good general rules.  But exceptions exist and those also need to be explained.
Lying is sometimes good.  "Does this dress make my butt look fat"?
Stealing bread to feed a child is OK; stealing a steak is iffy.
Hurting a person who attacks you is OK.
If your parents are crazed idiots, disrespecting them is OK.
If you are a slave, laziness is a legitimate act of civil disobedience.
Respecting the Law is generally good, but some laws need to be changed and civil disobedience is one way.

There are exceptions to any rule...  Intelligence is how we make those choices.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 25, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
My other post about this. :)
--Lying is not universally bad.  We can all think of situations where to tell the truth as you see it would simply hurt feelings.  That could simply be seen as thoughtless and cruel.
   Yes, honesty is the best policy--generally.  This is where modeling for children is important.   They will see what you do and that will be truly instructive for them.
--stealing.  Generally not good.  But if your family is starving and stealing food is the only way to get, then one would steal.  Far fetched?  Maybe--but look around the world.
--Hurting others.  It is best not to inflict pain needlessly.  But if my family, pets or friends are in harms way and the only way to keep them safe is to inflict pain, then I will do all in my power to inflict that pain.
----Disrespecting parents is generally not good.  But what if  they beat you daily or worse.  Do abusive parents deserve respect?  Don't think so.
---Laziness---being lazy all the time is not good.  But working all the time is not good either.  Children need to learn to respect work--and to respect rest, and how to balance the two.
----Respect authority figures of all kinds.  Unless those figures (whether individuals or govt.) misuse their authority.  Are there not times when you want your children to be able to tell an authority figure that what they are doing or want to do is not appropriate? 
---And yes, the golden rule is a great concept to teach children.

All of these concepts will be modeled (for good or ill; perfectly or not so perfectly) by you and that is when your children will learn the most and take those lessons to heart more than just hearing a parent tell them what to do and how to do it.  I found it difficult to tell my child an ironclad rule or way to proceed in every instance.  So, I used the golden rule most of the time; how would you like to be treated in 'x' situation and why.  It is not easy, but it is worth the effort.

Yes a parents actions and examples are the best teacher of how to live.
It would be cruel to intentionally hurt someone under the banner of telling the truth. Those are exceptional occasions. By and large telling the truth is the best policy if for no other reason as a matter of personal integrity. Lies usually get found out anyway. It can be extremely difficult at times to tell the truth usually because the truth will make the person telling the truth look bad. I tried to encourage truth telling by making the punishment less severe for telling the truth. One thing I avoided doing was asking my child a question I knew the answer to so I could catch them lying also. Its dishonest in it self to ask a question you already know unless you're a lawyer, they're exempt from all these rules. 

The thing with all moral values is they can be very tough to do. Its easy not to steal, cheat or swindle someone when all your needs are met, its much more difficult when you're starving. As the saying goes the real measure of a person's integrity isn't when everyone is looking, it's when no one is looking. There are circumstances where honoring a parent is very difficult but even under those circumstances it usually serves the child better since doing otherwise could escalate the situation. The problem with situation ethics is one can always rationalize there violation of basic ethics, many believers and Christians do it as well as anyone.

All the ethics I listed are taught and embraced by Judeo/Christian religions. I was raised a Catholic and these ethics were always drilled into my head. Did it mean I never transgressed? Hardly. I believe it gave me a higher platform to fall from then if I was raised by non-religious secular family that never emphasized such values. The USA (where I live) has become far more secular and less religious over the past 100 years. Has it become better any more civilized? More enlightened? Better mannered? More ethical? There are a lot of problems with organized religion but have we thrown the baby out with the bathwater?


Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 26, 2017, 01:48:16 AM
What Mike said. Morality is subjective, and children should be taught that they should approach each situation individually when able. Young children aren't capable of understanding the complexities of subjective morality at first, but they will grow to understand it in time. Provided, of course, that they are raised in a healthy learning environment, not a Conservative Christian environment which may stunt their growth.

Just curious have you raised children?

Here's a list of a few people brought up in Christian homes...Do you have anything like evidence for instance to support your position?

Katy Perry
Aretha Franklin
Jessica Simpson
Phil Jackson
Nat King Cole
Vincent Van Gogh
Jane Austen
Alice Cooper
Condoleezza Rice
Denzel Washington
Arsenio Hall
Marvin Gaye
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King Jr.















Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 05:19:11 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 05:11:12 PM
Just curious have you raised children?

Here's a list of a few people brought up in Christian homes...Do you have anything like evidence for instance to support your position?

Katy Perry
Aretha Franklin
Jessica Simpson
Phil Jackson
Nat King Cole
Vincent Van Gogh
Jane Austen
Alice Cooper
Condoleezza Rice
Denzel Washington
Arsenio Hall
Marvin Gaye
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King Jr.

Yes...
Douglas Adams, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Woody Allen, Fred Armisen, Lance Armstrong, Darren Aronofsky, Isaac Asimov, Julian Assange, Dan Barker, Dave Barry, Ingmar Bergman, Pierre Berton, Niels Bohr, Richard Branson, Derren Brown, Kari Byron, James Cameron, Asia Carrera, George Carlin, John Carmack, Adam Carolla, John Carpenter, Asia Carrera, Fidel Castro, Noam Chomsky, Jeremy Clarkson, Billy Connolly, Francis Crick, David Cronenberg, David Cross, Alan Cumming, Rodney Dangerfield, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Ani DiFranco, Micky Dolenz, Albert Einstein, Harlan Ellison, Paul ErdÅ's, Richard Feynman, Harvey Fierstein, Reginald Finley, Barney Frank, Morgan Freeman, Larry Flynt, Dave Foley, Arian Foster, Jodie Foster, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Gates, Bob Geldof, Ricky Gervais, Ira Glass, James Gleick, Robert Heinlein, Ernest Hemingway, Katharine Hepburn, Christopher Hitchens, Jamie Hyneman, Eddie Izzard, Penn Jillette, Billy Joel, Ana Kasparian, Diane Keaton, Skandar Keynes Michael Kinsley, Keira Knightley, Kramer, John Landis, Hugh Laurie, Artie Lange, Richard Leakey, Bruce Lee, Tom Lehrer, John Lennon, Tom Leykis, James Lipton, H.P. Lovecraft, Ernst Mach, Seth MacFarlane, Bill Maher, John Malkovich, Barry Manilow, Todd McFarlane, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller, Frank Miller, Claude Monet, Julianne Moore, Rafael Nadal, Randy Newman, Mike Nichols, Jack Nicholson, Gary Numan, Bob Odenkirk, Patton Oswalt, Camille Paglia, Trey Parker, PewDiePie, Steven Pinker, Brad Pitt, Joaquin Phoenix, Paula Poundstone, Terry Pratchett, Robin Quivers, Daniel Radcliffe, James Randi, Ron Reagan Jr., Rob Reiner, Keanu Reeves, Rick Reynolds, Gene Roddenberry, Henry Rollins, Andy Rooney, Salman Rushdie, Adam Savage, Brian Sapient, Erwin Schrödinger, Bob Simon, Steven Soderbergh, Annika Sorenstam, George Soros, Richard Stallman, Howard Stern, Matt Stone, Julia Sweeney, Teller, Studs Terkel, Pat Tillman, Tool, Alan Turing, Eddie Vedder, Jesse Ventura, Gore Vidal, Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Steven Weinberg, Joss Whedon, Ted Williams, Steve Wozniak, HUNDREDS MORE...

Good enough?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 08:00:59 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 05:19:11 PM
Yes...
Douglas Adams, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Woody Allen, Fred Armisen, Lance Armstrong, Darren Aronofsky, Isaac Asimov, Julian Assange, Dan Barker, Dave Barry, Ingmar Bergman, Pierre Berton, Niels Bohr, Richard Branson, Derren Brown, Kari Byron, James Cameron, Asia Carrera, George Carlin, John Carmack, Adam Carolla, John Carpenter, Asia Carrera, Fidel Castro, Noam Chomsky, Jeremy Clarkson, Billy Connolly, Francis Crick, David Cronenberg, David Cross, Alan Cumming, Rodney Dangerfield, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Ani DiFranco, Micky Dolenz, Albert Einstein, Harlan Ellison, Paul ErdÅ's, Richard Feynman, Harvey Fierstein, Reginald Finley, Barney Frank, Morgan Freeman, Larry Flynt, Dave Foley, Arian Foster, Jodie Foster, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Gates, Bob Geldof, Ricky Gervais, Ira Glass, James Gleick, Robert Heinlein, Ernest Hemingway, Katharine Hepburn, Christopher Hitchens, Jamie Hyneman, Eddie Izzard, Penn Jillette, Billy Joel, Ana Kasparian, Diane Keaton, Skandar Keynes Michael Kinsley, Keira Knightley, Kramer, John Landis, Hugh Laurie, Artie Lange, Richard Leakey, Bruce Lee, Tom Lehrer, John Lennon, Tom Leykis, James Lipton, H.P. Lovecraft, Ernst Mach, Seth MacFarlane, Bill Maher, John Malkovich, Barry Manilow, Todd McFarlane, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller, Frank Miller, Claude Monet, Julianne Moore, Rafael Nadal, Randy Newman, Mike Nichols, Jack Nicholson, Gary Numan, Bob Odenkirk, Patton Oswalt, Camille Paglia, Trey Parker, PewDiePie, Steven Pinker, Brad Pitt, Joaquin Phoenix, Paula Poundstone, Terry Pratchett, Robin Quivers, Daniel Radcliffe, James Randi, Ron Reagan Jr., Rob Reiner, Keanu Reeves, Rick Reynolds, Gene Roddenberry, Henry Rollins, Andy Rooney, Salman Rushdie, Adam Savage, Brian Sapient, Erwin Schrödinger, Bob Simon, Steven Soderbergh, Annika Sorenstam, George Soros, Richard Stallman, Howard Stern, Matt Stone, Julia Sweeney, Teller, Studs Terkel, Pat Tillman, Tool, Alan Turing, Eddie Vedder, Jesse Ventura, Gore Vidal, Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Steven Weinberg, Joss Whedon, Ted Williams, Steve Wozniak, HUNDREDS MORE...

Good enough?

Good enough for what? My post was in response to Blackleafs claim...

QuoteProvided, of course, that they are raised in a healthy learning environment, not a Conservative Christian environment which may stunt their growth.

Do you believe there is any study that demonstrates children raised in a religious home are negatively impacted as a result?

Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 08:00:59 PM
Good enough for what? My post was in response to Blackleafs claim...

Do you believe there is any study that demonstrates children raised in a religious home are negatively impacted as a result?

Parents who only accept faith healing and no modern medicine are bad parents.  But it is prejudice to call all religious parents ... to be of that religion.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 27, 2017, 01:17:09 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 05:11:12 PM
Just curious have you raised children?

Here's a list of a few people brought up in Christian homes...Do you have anything like evidence for instance to support your position?

Katy Perry
Aretha Franklin
Jessica Simpson
Phil Jackson
Nat King Cole
Vincent Van Gogh
Jane Austen
Alice Cooper
Condoleezza Rice
Denzel Washington
Arsenio Hall
Marvin Gaye
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King Jr.

I can't easily access my college's database right now, but there is a theory by Erikson that suggests people have different major developmental crises throughout their lives. The first stage is for babies, and is called "trust vs mistrust." In this stage, children learn whether or not their parents are trustworthy. If the parent fails to instill trust, the child's mistrust may be applied to people in general. The second stage is where religion may come into play, where fundamentalists are concerned. Early childhood is the "autonomy vs shame and doubt" stage, where children idealy will be encouraged to build confidence in their competencies to accomplish tasks. Parents with the attitude of maintaining control, who say "do what I say, and don't ask why" and don't allow children to make their own decisions may damage a child's self-worth and confidence. I know this was true in my case. There is a lot more I can get into with this theory, but I don't want to go too in depth right now.

Another relevant theory, though, is Kohlberg's theory of moral development. To summarize, children start with pre-conventional morality, in which morality is all about reward and punishment and self-interest. In level 2, the conventional level, adolescents and adults see morality via social norms and authorities. Religious morality typically fits this, where rules are rigid and cannot be challenged. Level 3, post-conventional level, is the level some adults never reach. This is the level where morality is understood to be subjective and situational, where authority figures and laws can be wrong.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 28, 2017, 09:09:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Parents who only accept faith healing and no modern medicine are bad parents.  But it is prejudice to call all religious parents ... to be of that religion.

I mentioned early on barring abuse or illegal behavior child raising is a parents prerogative. Parents who deprive children of medical care should be arrested and jailed accordingly. 
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on August 28, 2017, 09:39:44 PM
Frankly, I don't believe in non-punishment. The animal kingdom teaches its young by pain. You perhaps think we are better somehow due to our larger brains. A child that touches a hot stove won't do it again...unfortunately most wont get a second chance, but you can chide them all you want, yell, scream or rant and they may still touch the hot stove. Pain is a far better teacher, be it heat, electricity or love. I, like everyone, don't want my kid or grandkid to experience pain, but it is far better to understand the severe pain of a hot stove top than to pull a pan of boiling oil over on you. One is survivable, the other....not so much. Love and comfort is squishy and wonderful and all...but a hot jab in the gut goes a lot farther for future understanding of the reality of life.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 01:23:49 AM
Quote from: aitm on August 28, 2017, 09:39:44 PM
Frankly, I don't believe in non-punishment. The animal kingdom teaches its young by pain. You perhaps think we are better somehow due to our larger brains. A child that touches a hot stove won't do it again...unfortunately most wont get a second chance, but you can chide them all you want, yell, scream or rant and they may still touch the hot stove. Pain is a far better teacher, be it heat, electricity or love. I, like everyone, don't want my kid or grandkid to experience pain, but it is far better to understand the severe pain of a hot stove top than to pull a pan of boiling oil over on you. One is survivable, the other....not so much. Love and comfort is squishy and wonderful and all...but a hot jab in the gut goes a lot farther for future understanding of the reality of life.

Non-punishment is not the only alternative to corporal punishment. And research has shown that corporal punishment is counterproductive to discouraging problem behaviors. There's no justification for inflicting pain on a child to teach them a lesson. Unless you're suggesting parents should stand by and let their kids touch hot stoves, in which case I'd be calling Child Protective Services.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2017, 06:50:33 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 01:23:49 AM
Non-punishment is not the only alternative to corporal punishment. And research has shown that corporal punishment is counterproductive to discouraging problem behaviors. There's no justification for inflicting pain on a child to teach them a lesson. Unless you're suggesting parents should stand by and let their kids touch hot stoves, in which case I'd be calling Child Protective Services.

See, this is using children as part of the war against parents.  The proper way to deal with teens, is the 1960s method, updated.  Start a war in SE Asia, draft all the young men and young women, and send them there to play with the leeches and pungi pits ;-(

The problem with child discipline is that nothing works ... and most somehow survive bad parenting.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 29, 2017, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 25, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?


All those concepts predate your religion, they're the basis of civil society. Religion just hijacked them, because religions do nothing original.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 29, 2017, 07:15:42 AM
All those concepts predate your religion, they're the basis of civil society. Religion just hijacked them, because religions do nothing original.

Pfft. Next you're going to tell me Christians didn't invent Ultimate Frisbee or dodge ball.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 29, 2017, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 10:15:57 AM
Pfft. Next you're going to tell me Christians didn't invent Ultimate Frisbee or dodge ball.
Okay. Christians didn't invent Ultimate Frisbee or dodge ball.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2017, 12:51:13 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 29, 2017, 07:15:42 AM
All those concepts predate your religion, they're the basis of civil society. Religion just hijacked them, because religions do nothing original.

Yes, atheist cave men founded all social institutions.  But Og Trump hijacked them ;-)  You have the cave paintings to back that shit up?

Philosophy (secular thought) only dates to early Classical Greece.

However, since then I count it even ... we know how to be secular or religious, and still be stupid apes.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 29, 2017, 03:06:43 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 10:15:57 AM
Pfft. Next you're going to tell me Christians didn't invent Ultimate Frisbee or dodge ball.
Well, according to Pavel Chekov "the Russians inwented those."
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 29, 2017, 11:44:33 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?



Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 29, 2017, 07:15:42 AM
All those concepts predate your religion, they're the basis of civil society. Religion just hijacked them, because religions do nothing original.

Fine, if by your own admission they're the basis for civil society how can you be opposed to children being taught it? Secondly why don't secular sources teach and re-enforce these foundational concepts for a civil society?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 29, 2017, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 29, 2017, 11:44:33 PM

Secondly why don't secular sources teach and re-enforce these foundational concepts for a civil society?
They do.  In public school it's called civics and character counts, for two sources of citizenship. 
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Hydra009 on August 30, 2017, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 05:11:12 PM
Just curious have you raised children?

Here's a list of a few people brought up in Christian homes...Do you have anything like evidence for instance to support your position?
At first, I thought that Blackleaf had a valid point but now, after learning that Jessica Simpson grew up in a Christian household (an American citizen growing up as a Christian...what are the odds??) I have to admit that Drew's superb logic totally blows Blackleaf's shallow and tenuous argument out of the water.  Blackleaf, this intellectual juggernaut has slayed thee.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 30, 2017, 12:32:21 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 29, 2017, 11:44:33 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?



Fine, if by your own admission they're the basis for civil society how can you be opposed to children being taught it? Secondly why don't secular sources teach and re-enforce these foundational concepts for a civil society?

Don't worry, there are standards of behavior for public school teachers, and board of education standards for curricula.  These are all controlled by politics, not religion ... outside of parochial schools.  And most parents teach their children, by letting them watch bad TV.  I never once, got a moral lecture from my parents, was lucky to get the "sex talk" one time from dad (and handed a popular Kinsey book about the details).  What I learned as a kid from TV was that adults were scary and stupid.  I was taught history (old version of PC) at school.  If I wanted philosophy or religion, I read it myself.  I don't think present practice was all that different for my daughter (she got the sex talk from her mother).  My growing up was minimally religious, but my daughter is a PK.  There isn't a whole lot of difference between us ... I think because of genetics, because our generation is radically different.

The reason why we don't have full on morality police lectures in school is ... it would be too controversial for the board of education or the PTA.  Not some mass Leftist conspiracy.  If you want your kid to be religiously schooled, you send your child to parochial school, and pay for it yourself.  We tried that for all of 3 months with my daughter.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 30, 2017, 08:41:59 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 29, 2017, 11:44:33 PM
What if I taught my children...

Lying is bad, honesty is the best policy
Stealing is wrong you should never steal
Hurting others physically or mentally is always wrong even they hurt you you should turn the other cheek and walk away.
Disrespecting your parents is wrong
Laziness is a bad character trait hard work is its own reward.
Respect the law, the government and private property.
You should do you utmost to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

Do you think children raised under these admonishments is harmful?



Fine, if by your own admission they're the basis for civil society how can you be opposed to children being taught it? Secondly why don't secular sources teach and re-enforce these foundational concepts for a civil society?
When did I say I was opposed to teaching them? What I am opposed to is the one you left out of your Top Ten No-Nos list, the one about your imaginary friend. Didn't think we'd notice that, did you?

The Ten C's. is not unique to your branch of theology, variations on it are found around the world, it's how we live together as a society. Most places don't have the religious baggage attached, of course, it's taught as "this is how we don't kill each other."
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on August 30, 2017, 11:49:03 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 29, 2017, 11:54:09 PM
They do.  In public school it's called civics and character counts, for two sources of citizenship.

This character counts looks excellent from what I've heard. I don't know how pervasive it is. This gives me hope for the youth of today.

Here's the core ethics...

Trustworthiness
(think true blue)

Be honest • Don’t deceive, cheat, or steal • Be reliable â€" do what you say you’ll do • Have the courage to do the right thing • Build a good reputation • Be loyal â€" stand by your family, friends, and country

Respect
(think the Golden Rule)
Treat others with respect; follow the Golden Rule • Be tolerant and accepting of differences • Use good manners, not bad language • Be considerate of the feelings of others • Don’t threaten, hit or hurt anyone • Deal peacefully with anger, insults, and disagreements

Responsibility
(think green for a garden or finances or as in being solid like an Oak Tree)
Do what you are supposed to do • Plan ahead • Persevere: keep on trying! • Always do your best • Use self-control • Be self-disciplined • Think before you act â€" consider the consequences • Be accountable for your words, actions, and attitudes • Set a good example for others


Fairness
(think of dividing an orange into equal sections to share fairly with friends)
Play by the rules • Take turns and share • Be open-minded; listen to others • Don’t take advantage of others • Don’t blame others carelessly • Treat all people fairly

Caring
(think of a heart)
Be kind • Be compassionate and show you care • Express gratitude • Forgive others • Help people in need

Citizenship
(think regal purple as representing the state)
Do your share to make your school and community better • Cooperate • Get involved in community affairs • Stay informed; vote • Be a good neighbor • Obey laws and rules • Respect authority • Protect the environment • Volunteer
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 31, 2017, 12:15:34 AM
I actually taught that for over 30 yrs in my juvenile hall school.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 01:30:13 AM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 30, 2017, 11:49:03 PM
This character counts looks excellent from what I've heard. I don't know how pervasive it is. This gives me hope for the youth of today.

Here's the core ethics...

Trustworthiness
(think true blue)

Be honest • Don’t deceive, cheat, or steal • Be reliable â€" do what you say you’ll do • Have the courage to do the right thing • Build a good reputation • Be loyal â€" stand by your family, friends, and country

Respect
(think the Golden Rule)
Treat others with respect; follow the Golden Rule • Be tolerant and accepting of differences • Use good manners, not bad language • Be considerate of the feelings of others • Don’t threaten, hit or hurt anyone • Deal peacefully with anger, insults, and disagreements

Responsibility
(think green for a garden or finances or as in being solid like an Oak Tree)
Do what you are supposed to do • Plan ahead • Persevere: keep on trying! • Always do your best • Use self-control • Be self-disciplined • Think before you act â€" consider the consequences • Be accountable for your words, actions, and attitudes • Set a good example for others


Fairness
(think of dividing an orange into equal sections to share fairly with friends)
Play by the rules • Take turns and share • Be open-minded; listen to others • Don’t take advantage of others • Don’t blame others carelessly • Treat all people fairly

Caring
(think of a heart)
Be kind • Be compassionate and show you care • Express gratitude • Forgive others • Help people in need

Citizenship
(think regal purple as representing the state)
Do your share to make your school and community better • Cooperate • Get involved in community affairs • Stay informed; vote • Be a good neighbor • Obey laws and rules • Respect authority • Protect the environment • Volunteer


And none of that is specifically religious...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 10:55:30 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 31, 2017, 12:15:34 AM
I actually taught that for over 30 yrs in my juvenile hall school.

But if you can quack like a duck, can you also waddle like a duck?

Good behavior simply requires a well fed conscience that you pay attention to.  How you fill it, is up to you.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 11:08:25 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 10:55:30 AM
But if you can quack like a duck, can you also waddle like a duck?

Good behavior simply requires a well fed conscience that you pay attention to.  How you fill it, is up to you.

Sometimes the duck is the ugly duckling that becomes the goose.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 31, 2017, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 10:55:30 AM
But if you can quack like a duck, can you also waddle like a duck?

Good behavior simply requires a well fed conscience that you pay attention to.  How you fill it, is up to you.
That reminds me of what my good buddy and teaching partner (juvenile hall school--two classrooms and two teachers) told me once.  He said:
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck!  Meaning, 'Yes my soon to be ex was not only tutoring that guy (she lived in another town by then) but sleeping with him as well.  From then on my now wife and I know who we mean when we talk about The Duck.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on August 31, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 29, 2017, 01:23:49 AM
And research has shown that corporal punishment is counterproductive to discouraging problem behaviors. There's no justification for inflicting pain on a child to teach them a lesson.

Lucky for me and the rest of my siblings as well as millions of others, our parents didn't buy into that line of thought.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 01, 2017, 08:44:26 AM
Quote from: aitm on August 31, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
Lucky for me and the rest of my siblings as well as millions of others, our parents didn't buy into that line of thought.

But if you had grown up as a totally undomesticated wild-ling you would have been perfect cannon fodder for anti-Fa!
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 02:59:32 PM
Quote from: aitm on August 31, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
Lucky for me and the rest of my siblings as well as millions of others, our parents didn't buy into that line of thought.

You're just going to throw out decades of research because you turned out okay? Are you aware of the weaknesses of anecdotal evidence?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 26, 2017, 05:11:12 PMJust curious have you raised children?

In writing my original reply on my cell phone, I forgot to address this question. No, I'm not a parent. But simply being a parent does not make one a good source of parenting advice either. If one does not learn from their experience, experience does not become wisdom. Try driving in Houston sometime, and you'll see my point. People with decades of driving experience changing lanes at the very last second to make a turn, driving well over 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, driving mere inches from the car in front of them, showing absolutely no concern for the safety of themselves or anyone else. They're just as dangerous on the road, if not moreso, than new drivers.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 03:10:27 PM
Quote from: aitm on August 31, 2017, 07:43:55 PM*Unluckily for me and the rest of my siblings as well as millions of others, our parents didn't buy into that line of thought, but we mostly turned out okay despite that.
FIFY.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 03:07:21 PM
In writing my original reply on my cell phone, I forgot to address this question. No, I'm not a parent. But simply being a parent does not make one a good source of parenting advice either. If one does not learn from their experience, experience does not become wisdom. Try driving in Houston sometime, and you'll see my point. People with decades of driving experience changing lanes at the very last second to make a turn, driving well over 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, driving mere inches from the car in front of them, showing absolutely no concern for the safety of themselves or anyone else. They're just as dangerous on the road, if not moreso, than new drivers.

Well, this is part of the folk wisdom, that if what I am doing hasn't killed me yet, there is no reason to stop.  This is why people drink, smoke, do drugs ...

And sorry, experience doesn't produce wisdom ... but there is no wisdom without it.  If I raised a hundred children, over a hundred years, then I would have some authoritative experience ... or just have 100 messed up children ;-(  As it is, nobody gets to parent that much ... that limits our regrets.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 02:59:32 PM
You're just going to throw out decades of research because you turned out okay? Are you aware of the weaknesses of anecdotal evidence?

Much research by academics ... can be like marriage advice from the Pope.  Sorry, an academic career ... doesn't impress me much ... but then nothing much does.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Unbeliever on September 03, 2017, 03:30:37 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 02:59:32 PM
You're just going to throw out decades of research because you turned out okay? Are you aware of the weaknesses of anecdotal evidence?
Yeah, I think "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on September 03, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 02:59:32 PM
You're just going to throw out decades of research because you turned out okay? Are you aware of the weaknesses of anecdotal evidence?
No, I am using personal actual history, bona-fide observation, existing criminal history of people brought up the Dr. Spock suggested way, along with years of active involvement with youth sports as a coach and sponsor. In simpler words, I lived it point blank, right in the face up front, front row. I did not get my information from a article written by psycho-babblists who wrote it whilst their kids were still teething and spending time-out in the corner for bonking the other kid over the head with a steel tonka truck because they weren't taught manners. Real life, real results, sorry, I bow to that every time.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
No, I am using personal actual history, bona-fide observation, existing criminal history of people brought up the Dr. Spock suggested way, along with years of active involvement with youth sports as a coach and sponsor. In simpler words, I lived it point blank, right in the face up front, front row. I did not get my information from a article written by psycho-babblists who wrote it whilst their kids were still teething and spending time-out in the corner for bonking the other kid over the head with a steel tonka truck because they weren't taught manners. Real life, real results, sorry, I bow to that every time.

Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of anecdotal evidence. And reducing a field of science to "psycho-babble" too? You're starting to sound like the hard-core Conservative Christians.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on September 03, 2017, 05:38:44 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of anecdotal evidence. And reducing a field of science to "psycho-babble" too? You're starting to sound like the hard-core Conservative Christians.

yeah...

"hey, I got a study here says do this and that will happen."

"that's interesting, every experience in my life says exactly the opposite".

"well this is science and you need to believe it"

"no"

"well yer just stupid to believe everything that you have experienced in life over this study here"
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 08:21:47 PM
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 05:38:44 PM
yeah...

"hey, I got a study here says do this and that will happen."

"that's interesting, every experience in my life says exactly the opposite".

"well this is science and you need to believe it"

"no"

"well yer just stupid to believe everything that you have experienced in life over this study here"

Ever met anyone who claimed to be a bad driver? No? Well, if everyone's personal experience is that they are all good drivers, bad drivers must not exist. Fuck research. And while we're at it, every generation is worse than the last in every way because every single generation complains about the generations that come after theirs.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on September 03, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
Don't hyper-ventilate yerself....I have personal experience with vaccinations as well. Vaccinations...good. See, ya know observation is pretty much the foundation of scientific discovery.

When someone tells you they have a lifetime of experience in "x" and that that experience counters study "y"...there is no winning argument. To think that you can say, "well, these people...." has more weight than personal first hand experience? You lost before you started. You will never be able you to present a "study" against established behavior witnessed first hand. Even IF the witnessed experience is flawed, you cannot win the argument. Human psychology tells us that even the remote"es" challenge to a perceived fact is useless in the face of the person who so believes said "fact".

Never challenge a persons "facts" faith or beliefs... you cannot win. Present your "evidence" and let it lay. Period. A person who is interested will look at it and consider it...and perhaps adapt. A person who is steadfast in their opinion...will not change.

For god sake son, you're on an atheist website..you think we give a shit about other peoples opinions?
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 09:45:44 PM
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 08:49:01 PMDon't hyper-ventilate yerself....I have personal experience with vaccinations as well. Vaccinations...good.
That's a correct conclusion, but arrived at by unsound logic.  I worry about what conclusions you would reach had you had a different personal experience.

QuoteSee, ya know observation is pretty much the foundation of scientific discovery.
Personal experience =/= scientific observation.

The first is evidence "collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony" (which incidentally, is related to the "personal experience" apologetics argument)

The second refers to collecting data (preferably, using specialized instruments) and importantly, comparing them with other observations and if possible, replicating this observational phase in the future.

Knowing the difference between these two concepts is the difference between being immediately convinced or remaining tentatively skeptical that cold fusion is real when a single researcher claims a successful test.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:10:44 PM
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 05:38:44 PM
yeah...

"hey, I got a study here says do this and that will happen."

"that's interesting, every experience in my life says exactly the opposite".

"well this is science and you need to believe it"

"no"

"well yer just stupid to believe everything that you have experienced in life over this study here"

Some people replace the Pope with other authority ... usually academic.  They don't realize what scammers academics are.  If you want honesty and intelligence, don't include people in your equation.  Yes, the university's research is so convincing, particularly in political science ;-)

For most people, vaccinations are positive.  But not all people are chemically the same .. some people react badly to them.  Hence the conundrum over public policy.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:12:55 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 08:21:47 PM
Ever met anyone who claimed to be a bad driver? No? Well, if everyone's personal experience is that they are all good drivers, bad drivers must not exist. Fuck research. And while we're at it, every generation is worse than the last in every way because every single generation complains about the generations that come after theirs.

No, actually all drivers are bad drivers.  There are ones that are dead already, and those who will be dead eventually.  Are you ageist?  But that isn't the experience he is talking about, we aren't talking about folk story myths.  BTW ... if the public is wrong about everything, then stop voting already.  Just put PhDs into the ultimate academic junta.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
Don't hyper-ventilate yerself....I have personal experience with vaccinations as well. Vaccinations...good. See, ya know observation is pretty much the foundation of scientific discovery.

When someone tells you they have a lifetime of experience in "x" and that that experience counters study "y"...there is no winning argument. To think that you can say, "well, these people...." has more weight than personal first hand experience? You lost before you started. You will never be able you to present a "study" against established behavior witnessed first hand. Even IF the witnessed experience is flawed, you cannot win the argument. Human psychology tells us that even the remote"es" challenge to a perceived fact is useless in the face of the person who so believes said "fact".

Never challenge a persons "facts" faith or beliefs... you cannot win. Present your "evidence" and let it lay. Period. A person who is interested will look at it and consider it...and perhaps adapt. A person who is steadfast in their opinion...will not change.

For god sake son, you're on an atheist website..you think we give a shit about other peoples opinions?

You never know when some fact will convince a person who depends on anecdotal evidence to change them to change their mind.  People who are anecdotally-based are suggestible to begin with.  Like, politician X" who they admire says so.  Or something factual ENOUGH to matter like "99" of vaccinated kids don't get disease Z and 30% of unvaccinated ones do, or "oh gosh we would never be that stupid to not vaccinate our kids".

Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:36:48 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:21:35 PM
You never know when some fact will convince a person who depends on anecdotal evidence to change them to change their mind.  People who are anecdotally-based are suggestible to begin with.  Like, politician X" who they admire says so.  Or something factual ENOUGH to matter like "99" of vaccinated kids don't get disease Z and 30% of unvaccinated ones do, or "oh gosh we would never be that stupid to not vaccinate our kids".

Personal experience isn't an anecdote, if you are the one who experienced it.  If another experienced it, and you never did ... that is an anecdote.  If you both experienced it, and came to the same conclusion, that is mini-science.  But that isn't the issue, the issue is about worshipping PhDs.

Public policy on vaccinations are hard.  Suppose you know that 1% will react badly.  Suppose you have a public policy that says, vaccinate everyone no matter what.  Then we are sacrificing 1% of the population for the greater good.  Or do we give those people, if they can be determined in advance, another alternative?  What if that alternative means that there is a slightly greater chance of contagion, compared to simply sacrificing 1% of the population?  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Unless you are statist and hate freedom, even responsible freedom.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:50:25 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:36:48 PM
Personal experience isn't an anecdote, if you are the one who experienced it.  If another experienced it, and you never did ... that is an anecdote.  If you both experienced it, and came to the same conclusion, that is mini-science.  But that isn't the issue, the issue is about worshipping PhDs.

Public policy on vaccinations are hard.  Suppose you know that 1% will react badly.  Suppose you have a public policy that says, vaccinate everyone no matter what.  Then we are sacrificing 1% of the population for the greater good.  Or do we give those people, if they can be determined in advance, another alternative?  What if that alternative means that there is a slightly greater chance of contagion, compared to simply sacrificing 1% of the population?  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Unless you are statist and hate freedom, even responsible freedom.

Oops, yes.  I should have specified that some people accept anecdotal experiences AS personal experience of people they trust.  They tend (to me) to be one and the same practically, but you are quite correct in definition.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:50:25 PM
Oops, yes.  I should have specified that some people accept anecdotal experiences AS personal experience of people they trust.  They tend (to me) to be one and the same practically, but you are quite correct in definition.

Unless you want to diss your own personal experience, even when sober.  In which case you have a problem, not me.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
Unless you want to diss your own personal experience, even when sober.  In which case you have a problem, not me.

You know, when someone doesn't even accept "you're right" they probably have a "Baruch complex"...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 11:13:02 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
You know, when someone doesn't even accept "you're right" they probably have a "Baruch complex"...

Talking to more than a one man audience ... you aren't hearing voices, there are more than one of us out here.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 11:53:08 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 03, 2017, 11:13:02 PM
Talking to more than a one man audience ... you aren't hearing voices, there are more than one of us out here.

Multiple "Baruchs?  That would explain much...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2017, 11:53:08 PM
Multiple "Baruchs?  That would explain much...

Now silly, when I post I am aware of at least all the people who have posted in the string to that point, and usually the "usual cast of characters" even if they haven't posted yet.  You aren't the only person in the audience, unless you are a solipsist.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 02:11:17 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
Now silly, when I post I am aware of at least all the people who have posted in the string to that point, and usually the "usual cast of characters" even if they haven't posted yet.  You aren't the only person in the audience, unless you are a solipsist.

I learned a long time ago that the person I address is not actually the group of readers.  You never address your posts to the person you are replying to.  It is the larger audience out there.

If YOU were my readership, I wouldn't bother.  To an atheist, You are hopeless...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on September 04, 2017, 09:01:31 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 03, 2017, 09:45:44 PM

Personal experience =/= scientific observation.


"I saw a bird fly"
"don't be stupid, things can't fly"
"but I saw a bird fly"
"...anecdotal evidence"...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: aitm on September 04, 2017, 09:01:31 AM
"I saw a bird fly"
"don't be stupid, things can't fly"
"but I saw a bird fly"
"...anecdotal evidence"...

That is not anectodal evidence.  Direct observation. 

Did I say something unintentionally stupid earlier to deserve that? 
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on September 04, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
When I talk to my religious cousins I'm guided by the people around them. The younger folks are listening to what I say, and they ask questions via email that shows they're getting the ideas I put across. I have a few other relatives who aren't religious and we're trying to keep the young ones out of the rabbit hole. Some success, too many failures, but we'll keep trying.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 04, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
When I talk to my religious cousins I'm guided by the people around them. The younger folks are listening to what I say, and they ask questions via email that shows they're getting the ideas I put across. I have a few other relatives who aren't religious and we're trying to keep the young ones out of the rabbit hole. Some success, too many failures, but we'll keep trying.

Ah, conversion through stealth...
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
Ah, conversion through stealth...

From your POV, just normalization.  You Normie.  Long live Kekistan!
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 02:11:17 AM
I learned a long time ago that the person I address is not actually the group of readers.  You never address your posts to the person you are replying to.  It is the larger audience out there.

If YOU were my readership, I wouldn't bother.  To an atheist, You are hopeless...

Rather ... I am the exception that proves the rule ;-)
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
Rather ... I am the exception that proves the rule ;-)

No, not really.  You are just a very active theist troll spending time on an atheist forum for some sad reason of your own.  I would MUCH rather talk to actual atheists.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 10:27:27 AM
No, not really.  You are just a very active theist troll spending time on an atheist forum for some sad reason of your own.  I would MUCH rather talk to actual atheists.

There are plenty here to talk to.  Chat away ;-)
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:46:29 AM
There are plenty here to talk to.  Chat away ;-)

If you didn't clog up the threads, I probably could.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 01:11:18 PM
Kibbitz king strikes again!
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: aitm on September 04, 2017, 04:10:39 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:41:48 AM
That is not anectodal evidence.  Direct observation. 

Did I say something unintentionally stupid earlier to deserve that? 

It wasn't too you...so yeah...you said sumpin stupid.....heheheheh
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Drew_2017 on September 04, 2017, 06:30:27 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 03, 2017, 03:07:21 PM
In writing my original reply on my cell phone, I forgot to address this question. No, I'm not a parent. But simply being a parent does not make one a good source of parenting advice either. If one does not learn from their experience, experience does not become wisdom. Try driving in Houston sometime, and you'll see my point. People with decades of driving experience changing lanes at the very last second to make a turn, driving well over 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, driving mere inches from the car in front of them, showing absolutely no concern for the safety of themselves or anyone else. They're just as dangerous on the road, if not moreso, than new drivers.

Being a parent alone doesn't qualify someone to give parenting advice since clearly some parents have no business being parents. Getting married or parenting a child is (or should be) a life altering experience  and very few people's preconceptions (including my own) are accurate.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2017, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 04, 2017, 06:30:27 PM
Being a parent alone doesn't qualify someone to give parenting advice since clearly some parents have no business being parents. Getting married or parenting a child is (or should be) a life altering experience  and very few people's preconceptions (including my own) are accurate.

Modesty and my own failures prevent me ... but I haven't been asleep the last 30 years either.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on September 05, 2017, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
Ah, conversion through stealth...
Any education has to be by stealth. I've mailed books to adult cousins who are "in the closet" on the whole reality thing and they relay to the kids.
Title: Re: Atheism view of religious usage. Do they get angst when its mentioned?
Post by: Cavebear on September 07, 2017, 04:38:16 AM
Quote from: aitm on September 04, 2017, 04:10:39 PM
It wasn't too you...so yeah...you said sumpin stupid.....heheheheh

Then...  Accepted.  Had to happen eventually.