http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-to-neo-nazis-your-heroes-are-losers-w498410 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-to-neo-nazis-your-heroes-are-losers-w498410)
(His couple minute video can be found in the link above)
Quote
In the wake of the horrific events in Charlottesville last Saturday that left one anti-hate protestor dead and at least 19 injured, Arnold Schwarzenegger called out Donald Trump as well as "Neo-Nazis, the White Nationalists and the neo-Confederates" in a new video for ATTN:, an issues-driven media company. "There are not two sides to bigotry, there are not two sides to hatred," the former California governor stated, words that seemed directed at Trump's vacillating response of blaming both the anti-hate protestors and the neo-Nazis for what unfolded.
In the new clip, Schwarzenegger took Trump to task for not taking a stand against hate and racism following the tragic events. Schwarzenegger said that as president, Trump had a moral responsibility to do so.
Since Trump did not send an unequivocal anti-racist message, Schwarzenegger offered to write what he thought should have been communicated. "As president of the United States and as a Republican, I reject the support of white supremacists," Schwarzenegger said in the speech he would've liked to have heard. "The country that defeated Hitler's armies is no place for Nazi flags. The party of Lincoln won't stand with those who carry the battle flag of the failed Confederacy."
Addressing what had transpired over the weekend, Schwarzenegger said that people are not born with hateful views and said he believed that people can evolve and come to the understanding "that all human beings have equal value."
"You are so lucky to live in a country that gives you every right to say horrible things," he added. "But think about how you could actually use that power for something good."
While he addressed the hate groups head-on, he also beckoned those who have been silent to stand up against the hatred, adding that racism must be faced directly, though he acknowledged it would take courage to do so. One of the actions Schwarzenegger said he has taken is to donate $100,000 to Simon Wiesenthal Center. "I hope you will join me by supporting your favorite anti-hate organization," he said.
"Let's all commit right now to leaving the terrible ghosts of the past in the trash heap of history," he concluded. "That's where they belong….Let's terminate hate."
It's tempting to say certain people here are on the losing side of history, but I think more accurately... it should be said they are on the lost side of history. Nazism, racism, bigotry, xenophobia are not losing, they lost years ago and deserve zero credit. Major props for Schwarzenegger and other Republicans for finally standing up and telling a decent part of their base, "I do not want you support. Your fear and hatred is against everything we should stand for.", and also respect for telling it how there is... there aren't "two sides", a left and a right, in this fight against bigots and saying that it is is nothing more than showing support to groups like the Neo-Nazis, the White Supremacists and other "alt-right" groups.
I will say this as someone on the left... we need to stop using "alt-right" and just call a Nazi a Nazi. While conservatives and the right wing have thrived off the support of these people, I don't think the average voter knew just how bad it was. It is mainly the politicians who did know and didn't say anything that need to be labeled as Nazi sympathizers and promptly voted out come next cycle.
Somebody somewhere is extremely pleased how the Charlotteville riot turned out.
Beyond his wildest expectation. Money well spent.
Btw, according to his bio, he is a nazi sympathizer.
Quote from: pr126 on August 18, 2017, 04:53:49 AM
Somebody somewhere is extremely pleased how the Charlotteville riot turned out.
Beyond his wildest expectation. Money well spent.
Btw, according to his bio, he is a nazi sympathizer.
Soros' father was an Esperanto teacher, and taught his son. So Esperanto must be part of the NWO.
Both Swartzenegger and Trump like to inappropriately touch women or at least talk about doing it. Arnold has been a governor ... he is dead to me, like any other politician ;-)
QuoteMoney well spent.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Quote from: Shiranu on August 18, 2017, 05:26:27 AM
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Did you go to Charlottesville, to collect the $25 Soros bounty? I doubt it. All talk, not Kalashnikov.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 18, 2017, 05:26:27 AM
What the fuck is wrong with you?
That was the financier's thinking, not mine. He did spend some money on this surely.
You have simply misunderstood the sentence.
If Antifa is on the right side of history, why do they need clubs and balloons filled with piss to fight with?
Quote from: Munch on August 18, 2017, 08:05:46 AM
If Antifa is on the right side of history, why do they need clubs and balloons filled with piss to fight with?
Monkeys just throw shit. Just goes to show this is the Planet of the Apes, already.
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 12:52:11 PM
Monkeys just throw shit. Just goes to show this is the Planet of the Apes, already.
No disrespect to the apes.
Quote from: pr126 on August 18, 2017, 12:56:50 PM
No disrespect to the apes.
Since all of the last 70 years of history have been stage-managed by the CIA, with the help of Hollywood ... we should expect the "pump the franchise" phenomenon to happen in politics. Anyone up for Symbianese Liberation Army 2.0 or Black Panthers 2.0? Just like the other movie franchises ... only no giant robots ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 01:11:46 PM
Since all of the last 70 years of history have been stage-managed by the CIA, with the help of Hollywood ... we should expect the "pump the franchise" phenomenon to happen in politics. Anyone up for Symbianese Liberation Army 2.0 or Black Panthers 2.0? Just like the other movie franchises ... only no giant robots ;-)
I would prefer a spider monkey revolution, but I will settle for howlers ;-)
I really like Schwartzenegger's snide comments about Trump. He has made a few good ones over the last several months.
Quote from: fencerider on August 19, 2017, 01:53:50 AM
I would prefer a spider monkey revolution, but I will settle for howlers ;-)
I really like Schwartzenegger's snide comments about Trump. He has made a few good ones over the last several months.
Post calling the kettle ... black. Notice how a snowflake takes his blathering as news.
Quote from: Munch on August 18, 2017, 08:05:46 AM
If Antifa is on the right side of history, why do they need clubs and balloons filled with piss to fight with?
When your best argument is the same argument David Duke and the KKK are publishing to defend the violence and murder of an American citizen, you already lost that argument.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 19, 2017, 08:58:25 AM
When your best argument is the same argument David Duke and the KKK are publishing to defend the violence and murder of an American citizen, you already lost that argument.
Sorry was I making an argument? And how old are you again? Just curious because it sometimes seems like your own arguments come from a less matured place of growth. Maybe we can help with that.
Quote from: Munch on August 19, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
Sorry was I making an argument? And how old are you again? Just curious because it sometimes seems like your own arguments come from a less matured place of growth. Maybe we can help with that.
Yes, when you make a point that is contrary to what you are addressing, that is commonly known as an argument.
I have to admit, I never thought the position, "Nazis are bad." came from a place of immaturity. Perhaps I could use a bit more clarity on that.
Quote from: Munch on August 19, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
Sorry was I making an argument? And how old are you again? Just curious because it sometimes seems like your own arguments come from a less matured place of growth. Maybe we can help with that.
Yes, yes ... feel the hate - Emperor Shiranu
The Sith always masquerade as Jedi. Corrupt politicians always aim for absolute power ... they simply can't control the vampire current of their home appliances ... bwahaha.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 19, 2017, 11:06:36 AM
Yes, when you make a point that is contrary to what you are addressing, that is commonly known as an argument.
I have to admit, I never thought the position, "Nazis are bad." came from a place of immaturity. Perhaps I could use a bit more clarity on that.
In relativistic morality .. nothing is bad, nothing is good. So yes, Zyklon-B Nazis are not bad. Neither are Nuking Americans. It all depends on whose ox is gassed or vaporized. In nature (and that is all most people here admit to) if it can be physically done, then we are down with that.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 19, 2017, 11:06:36 AM
Yes, when you make a point that is contrary to what you are addressing, that is commonly known as an argument.
I have to admit, I never thought the position, "Nazis are bad." came from a place of immaturity. Perhaps I could use a bit more clarity on that.
I'm glad you are willing to have a dialog with a few people you vehemently disagree with. Some on the far left employ the tactic of shouting down any opposing opposition. As a student of Nazism I'm sure you see the similarity in tactics. Your problem isn't with condemning Nazi's and White Supremacists it's with your outrageous claim that some most or all of the folks on the right who support or voted for Trump are by extension of the same ilk. This reminds me of Hillary's claim half of Trump supporters are a basket of deplorable s...how did that work out for her?
Your claim Trump is a Nazi or a White Supremacist is false...I might as well state my opinion as fact, everyone else does.
QuoteYour problem isn't with condemning Nazi's and White Supremacists it's with your outrageous claim that some most or all of the folks on the right who support or voted for Trump are by extension of the same ilk.
Then this is something that is being lost in transmission; either I am not clearly stating myself, you aren't interpreting it how I mean and feel, or both.
I do not think that all on the right, or even the majority, are of anywhere near the same ilk as Trump or the alt-right. I think the overwhelming majority of them were suckered into his populist and nationalist views, which are both not inherently bad. The problem is both his populism and his nationalism came from a place of hatred, and we are seeing that now manifest it's ugly head both in Char. from the protesters but also in Trump's deflection instead of outright condemnation of Nazis and white supremacists. If this was just a anomaly I think it would be fair to say he just scuffed the shot on this one, but the thing is he has a history of racist remarks, of not distancing himself from hate groups, of making his chief adviser the leader of the alt-right movement... there comes a point where you simply have to say that all the evidence mounted against him is too damning.
I don't remember now where I posted it, but it's like Nazi Germany... I don't for a second believe that the average German was anything like your original Nazi party member, but they bought into his message of fear and bigotry and gave him power... and things snowballed from there, to the point it was out of the average person's control regardless of if they liked it or not.
I think the average Trump voter, like the average voter in general, is not very well informed and not very politically savvy. The problem is they come from regions that are struggling economically and socially as the global economy shifts (and this is not an America-only problem, the same can be seen in the demographics of pro-Brexit and pro-far right UK parties who often come from struggling rural and industrial regions). When you add both ignorance (that both the left and the right have failed to address) of politics, two weak candidates, and a very dire situation... people will make dire choices.
But those dire choices have consequences. By voting for a candidate who openly makes racist remarks on the campaign trail, who mocked a handicapped reporter, who made countless sexist and horrible remarks about people left, right and centre... regardless of the situation, the Trump voters have to take some responsibility for their action.
I don't believe they should be punished, I don't think they should be branded racist, bigoted, whatever if that is why they voted for him without looking at other factors... but what I want to see is some remorse, some recognition that they made a poor choice. That they will fight for better choices in the future (and that goes for democrats as well). As it stands, and I am very hesitant to say this... both sides continue to drive a wedge between each other when the left paints Trump voters in only one light without viewing the bigger picture and when the right doubles down. It's a feedback response between the two.
And I'm trying not to wall of text, but not everything can be summed up in one or two sentence... another problem arises in that the president's, as head statesman, job is to bridge those divides and try to find common ground... to try to unite the American people. But instead we have a president that uses a domestic terrorist attack to further drive a wedge between the two.
So this is much of the reason it is very frustrating for me here, when several posters insist I am a dyed-in-the-wool leftist or think all on the right are racist or just want to play identity politics... this is simply not true. I was raised very racist and very anti-LGBT, I know what that side of the isle is like, and I don't think that people who hold these views because of the society they were raised in are inherently "bad people". I also know it takes very hard work to get over those mindsets and that it is quite possible you never fully will. But what I do know is that one side fights tooth and nail to conserve that culture using fear and hatred, and that is antithesis to everything I believe in and I am not shy in saying so. If you go back to my posts during Obama's presidency, you will find the majority of remarks I had about Obama were negative as well... that he wasn't doing enough to promote unity, that he was too violent of president foreignly, and so on. My views often clash with mainline Democrats and leftists as well who I feel don't equally use wisdom and compassion to guide their policy, but I side with them more often than not for practical reasons... they are the one's with any chance of winning who align closest to my beliefs, so I hold my nose and vote for them lest someone like Trump, who is drastically different from my views, wins... and then vote in smaller elections (mayor, governor, house, senate, etc.) where there is more competition within the parties for candidates who more accurately reflect my views to win.
QuoteThis reminds me of Hillary's claim half of Trump supporters are a basket of deplorable s...how did that work out for her?
I will say this; Hillary had the good sense, be it either moral or just political, to then say the next day, "That was a terrible exaggeration, I got caught up in the moment and said something that was not true and was derogatory.". That is different from Trump who will double, triple, whatever down to avoid saying he was wrong.
QuoteYour claim Trump is a Nazi or a White Supremacist is false...I might as well state my opinion as fact, everyone else does.
I don't think he is a Nazi, but I am not sure about the white supremacist... though I don't think I have ever called him one. He is racist though, that is simple fact when you look at the body of work as it were that he has put out indicating that to be so. What I have said is that he sympathizes with many of their positions... maybe not to the point of actively holding and acting on them, but at least staying silent about them, accepting their support, and defending them when they rear their ugly head.
For the president of the free world, that is simply not acceptable behaviour. It's one thing to just be a regular person and to behave that way (then you are just an asshole), but for someone of his power this is inexcusable.
I don't think I have argued much with you, so I do not hold an opinion on you like I do pr and Munch, who I think have gone too far down the deep end of bigotry and hatred to reason with. And I don't expect to sway your opinion and all of the sudden you will be singing kumbaya and hugging trees or whatever. But when I get frustrated in the other thread and say those things, it's coming from a very honest and emotional place within me that simply has no tolerance for defense of Nazism, and I don't mean that as an insult towards you as a person (as much as my wording indicates otherwise; I feel if we met in person we would be perfectly civil and don't view online personas as reflections of the "true" person's colours)... the anger is almost purely directed towards the position itself rather than you.
And that is something I realise I can be very bad at, at letting that anger be expressed at the speaker rather than the position itself, but alot of that comes from the position you hold being held by people there is no reasoning with. It's not right and it's not a good form of argument, but it is at the end of the day what it is and can't really change what was said now. And if we continue this argument, there is a good chance I will throw attacks like that again... I will be the first to admit my Mediterranean and Celtic blood can be very fiery at times.
Better arguments. Not that ideological cat fights get you anywhere.
Quote from: Munch on August 18, 2017, 08:05:46 AM
If Antifa is on the right side of history, why do they need clubs and balloons filled with piss to fight with?
Well, demi-god Munch, it was because they knew the Nazis and KKK were coming with torches, clubs, police-quality plexiglass shields, and AK-47s.
And BTW, the weapons the Nazis and KKK brought were documented, the claims of counter-protesters carrying the stuff you mentioned were not. You listen to too much Fox news or worse... I did see one counter-protestor idiot lighting a hairspray can with a match. That lasted 5 seconds before he had to drop it from the heat, (or it ran out, I'm not sure) LOL!
Rentamob on Craiglist. I would have never guessed.
There is another video where it is offering $1500 a day with expenses.
For Soros, money well spent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTm8hI9QtQ&t=205s
Pr126 ... it is all fake news, anything I don't want to acknowledge is fake news and alt-right and racist ... aieee (hides under bed rather than go to work). The eclipse, Yellowstone ... we are all going to die, I tell you, die,
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 12:56:25 AM
Well, demi-god Munch, it was because they knew the Nazis and KKK were coming with torches, clubs, police-quality plexiglass shields, and AK-47s.
And BTW, the weapons the Nazis and KKK brought were documented, the claims of counter-protesters carrying the stuff you mentioned were not. You listen to too much Fox news or worse... I did see one counter-protestor idiot lighting a hairspray can with a match. That lasted 5 seconds before he had to drop it from the heat, (or it ran out, I'm not sure) LOL!
Dude, your making the assumption that I watch fox news as much as Shiranu assuming I'm somehow alt right because I called him on his crap.
Quote from: Munch on August 21, 2017, 07:04:51 AM
Dude, your making the assumption that I watch fox news as much as Shiranu assuming I'm somehow alt right because I called him on his crap.
Mate, I call you alt-right because you literally use the exact same arguments and use the exact same sources as they do.
Well, Karl Marx had a beard, Munch has a beard. Therefore Munch is a communist. Not alt-right
It stands to reason.
Just remembered. Shiranu also has a beard...
LOL.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 21, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
Mate, I call you alt-right because you literally use the exact same arguments and use the exact same sources as they do.
So if alt-right says 2+2=4 ... you will damn arithmetic, full socialism ahead?
Quote from: Shiranu on August 19, 2017, 11:06:36 AM
Yes, when you make a point that is contrary to what you are addressing, that is commonly known as an argument.
I have to admit, I never thought the position, "Nazis are bad." came from a place of immaturity. Perhaps I could use a bit more clarity on that.
Americans are bad too, just ask a Native.
All the world is a stage (http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/08/all-the-worlds-a-stage/)
Quote from: Baruch on August 21, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Americans are bad too, just ask a Native.
Of course. The problem begins when you stop striving to be better.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 24, 2017, 05:35:54 PM
Of course. The problem begins when you stop striving to be better.
Define better? Occidentalism or Orientalism ... aka prejudice.
Quote from: Baruch on August 21, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Americans are bad too, just ask a Native.
Aren't immigrants "American" as well? How many generations do you think it takes to be "American".
By that logic, the Francs are not French.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 01:35:39 AM
Aren't immigrants "American" as well? How many generations do you think it takes to be "American".
By that logic, the Francs are not French.
Correct on both counts, you can be taught. The Franks come from Germany, one of their many invasions of neighbors. No, actually I was referring to the collective amnesia and virtue signaling.
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:42:27 AM
Correct on both counts, you can be taught. The Franks come from Germany, one of their many invasions of neighbors. No, actually I was referring to the collective amnesia and virtue signaling.
The Franks came originally from the Asian steppes. Sort of. When you discuss pre-historical and historical immigration, you are talking one of my personal interests. Everyone comes from somewhere else. I'm a Multi-Regionalism human evolutionist.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 01:12:44 PM
The Franks came originally from the Asian steppes. Sort of. When you discuss pre-historical and historical immigration, you are talking one of my personal interests. Everyone comes from somewhere else. I'm a Multi-Regionalism human evolutionist.
Yes, but more recently they are from Frankfurt ... ford of the Franks (free guys).
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 02:48:57 PM
Yes, but more recently they are from Frankfurt ... ford of the Franks (free guys).
A little class in migration. There were Neandertals in Europe and eastern Asia about 30KYA. Moderns Humans immigrated. Some of them mated. The Cro-Magnons (I'm simplifying this) were mostly Modern Humans with some 5% neandertal genes. I won't even involve the Denisovians.
Then other modern humans moved in from Central Asia. They pushed the Cro-magnons to the edges of Europe.
Those peoples were probably the Picts. THEY got pushed into Britain by new incoming peoples (all Modern Humans by this point). Those peoples were Aryan (and no this is not an Aryan racial thing, they were just Indo-European from the Caucasian Mountains) but hence the later non-Romance language influences. I think that is bout when the Iceman was living.
Later other Aryans/Caucasians (Celts) moved into northern Europe. Meanwhile, people from the eastern Mediterranean domesticated some animals and plants and spread that culture into the Balkans, Greece and Italy.
So while Greece and Italy were colonized by one group, Northern Europe got more from Central Asian steppes. In the times of the Romans, the last peoples to move westward were the Franks, Vandals, and Visigoths etc (collectively called "Gauls").
The Gauls were from the Asian steppes. They were just the last of many Asian Steppe immigrants. All this has no race or jcultural udgement whatsoever. As the Roman Empire failed, the Gallic peoples took over Europe. You know the rest. If I recall correctly, the Franks became the French, the Vandals became the Italians, and the Visigoths became the Iberians (Spain and Portugal). Mating with the locals all the way...
We good?
Yes, of course we are good. We are Bobsy Twins ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 03:42:14 PM
Yes, of course we are good. We are Bobsy Twins ;-)
Never read any of the Bobbsey Twins books. Can we be Frank and Joe Hardy? I read several of those. Or are you Nan?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Never read any of the Bobbsey Twins books. Can we be Frank and Joe Hardy? I read several of those. Or are you Nan?
As old as you are, I figure you read McGuffey's Readers in a one room schoolhouse ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 06:41:06 PM
As old as you are, I figure you read McGuffey's Readers in a one room schoolhouse ;-)
Who do you think WROTE them?
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 02:48:57 PM
Yes, but more recently they are from Frankfurt ... ford of the Franks (free guys).
Kentucky? Isn't that home of the hot dog??
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 26, 2017, 07:02:05 PM
Kentucky? Isn't that home of the hot dog??
Chihuahua Kentucky, south of nashville, right? But actually, hot dogs (as normal food) were invented at Fenway Park on a cold day when ice cream wasn't selling.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 07:05:53 PM
Chihuahua Kentucky, south of nashville, right? But actually, hot dogs (as normal food) were invented at Fenway Park on a cold day when ice cream wasn't selling.
The history of the hot dog is hard to pin down. The sausage was developed in Frankfurt, Germany--most accept that. The bun applied to said sausage is another story. One can find lots of claims for the first with that one. Most likely it first showed up on Coney Island. But who knows.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 26, 2017, 08:52:01 PM
The history of the hot dog is hard to pin down. The sausage was developed in Frankfurt, Germany--most accept that. The bun applied to said sausage is another story. One can find lots of claims for the first with that one. Most likely it first showed up on Coney Island. But who knows.
But the toppings are so important. Mustard alone, mustard with pickle relish, alone with chili, ketchup with minced onions, ketchup alone, and dutchlike with mayo...