He of course is an elected president but
Just 2 candidates were running for the presidency? Is it a democracy?
I have strong doubts that there are lots of leaders who are so-called elected president and
amongst them, i am sure there are lots of leaders who are the men of global capital, instead of the nation.
I have no data, of course, just a strong doubt...from what i read, saw and heard...
What do you think?
America stopped being a democracy a long time ago, unfortunately.
What we have here in America is simply a man who represents the worst parts of this country as well as the global one percent.
Quote from: Sorginak on August 15, 2017, 06:14:10 PM
America stopped being a democracy a long time ago, unfortunately.
What we have here in America is simply a man who represents the worst parts of this country as well as the global one percent.
The center of the global capital is the imperial America...
Once upon a time the center was Britain but they passed it to America...
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
He of course is an elected president but
Just 2 candidates were running for the presidency? Is it a democracy?
I have strong doubts that there are lots of leaders who are so-called elected president and
amongst them, i am sure there are lots of leaders who are the men of global capital, instead of the nation.
I have no data, of course, just a strong doubt...from what i read, saw and heard...
What do you think?
Yes, a multiparty Parliament is more democratic ... and more humorous. Ever hear of PM Berlusconi of Italy, when he was in power? He was a media magnate. Trump is more similar to him than any other recent leader. Beppe Grillo leads the Five Star Movement ... and he used to be a TV comedian.
The US never was a democracy. It was set up to be a representative republic. And the electoral college was put in place to keep the rabble from electing anyone. The constitution was worded so as to fool the average joe. We are all created equal and .............................was great propaganda. And it was propaganda from the very beginning. And very successful; everybody still likes to label us as a 'democracy', when it never was (with the exception of a few town govt. in the East that allowed laws to be crafted by the vote of all). Checks and balances work, but none of the branches were elected by a common vote. We are now a representative govt that only represents the very wealthy in all three branches. The common man is simply fodder.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2017, 07:26:04 PM
The US never was a democracy. It was set up to be a representative republic. And the electoral college was put in place to keep the rabble from electing anyone. The constitution was worded so as to fool the average joe. We are all created equal and .............................was great propaganda. And it was propaganda from the very beginning. And very successful; everybody still likes to label us as a 'democracy', when it never was (with the exception of a few town govt. in the East that allowed laws to be crafted by the vote of all). Checks and balances work, but none of the branches were elected by a common vote. We are now a representative govt that only represents the very wealthy in all three branches. The common man is simply fodder.
But the idea being pumped via the media is still that America is a democracy.
Right, this is just a propaganda.
And the so-called reason of America to legitimate its occupation to Iraq and Afghanistan was to export them the democracy.
America is known as the exporter of democracy in the world :D
We are living in a political theater.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 07:34:32 PM
But the idea being pumped via the media is still that America is a democracy.
Right, this is just a propaganda.
And the so-called reason of America to legitimate its occupation to Iraq and Afghanistan was to export them the democracy.
America is known as the exporter of democracy in the world :D
We are living in a political theater.
The theatre extends to corporate life, as well. Unfortunately, most people are willing to overlook unjustices in order to continue earning a paycheck. I am certain most everyone has learned from working somewhere that complaining about company policy merely results in the complainer being unduly written up and suspended and eventually fired.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 07:34:32 PM
But the idea being pumped via the media is still that America is a democracy.
Right, this is just a propaganda.
And the so-called reason of America to legitimate its occupation to Iraq and Afghanistan was to export them the democracy.
America is known as the exporter of democracy in the world :D
We are living in a political theater.
Read 1984--Newspeak.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
He of course is an elected president but
Just 2 candidates were running for the presidency?
There were other candidates. Green Party candidate Jill Stein and Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson. There were others, but iirc, none of them met the requirements to appear on state ballots and only received votes as write in candidates.
QuoteIs it a democracy?
Yes. Though how vibrant a democracy it is is up for debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_democracy). Gerrymandering, the electoral college system, and the enormous role of money in politics (especially corporate money) certainly raises some doubts. And during elections themselves, there are sometimes "voting irregularities" and suspicious moves that restrict the early voting period, available voting places, student voting, and introduce new hurtles for voters to pass in order to vote. These problems can also exist during the primary votes. And finally, there's the role of the media in election. If candidate A has little press coverage and meanwhile, the media can't stop talking about candidate B (for all the wrong reasons), take a guess who's going to get more votes on election day.
QuoteI have strong doubts that there are lots of leaders who are so-called elected president and
amongst them, i am sure there are lots of leaders who are the men of global capital, instead of the nation.
I have no idea what you mean by "men of global capital"? Capital as in money or capital as in a capital city of a political entity?
I mean -capitalism and capitalists and capital at the global scale- by -global capital- : )
the only reason we have to export democracy is to keep the money rolling in to the defense contractors.
the US is and always was a republic not a democracy; never mind that for the last several years they've all been bought and paid for by the capitalists.
If anybody had any conspiracy theories about who controls our government, it all ended with Citizens United. Without question the US is now a plutocracy. Bought and paid for by the rich for the rich. The only reason to have outsourcing or trade agreements is to benefit the rich. They will double down on that now that they can rig elections.
well... soldier of fortune is preachin to the choir on this subject.
p.s. someday soon a soldier of fortune might be a good occupation in a post-USA world
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 15, 2017, 10:09:29 PM
There were other candidates. Green Party candidate Jill Stein and Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson. There were others, but iirc, none of them met the requirements to appear on state ballots and only received votes as write in candidates.
Yes. Though how vibrant a democracy it is is up for debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_democracy). Gerrymandering, the electoral college system, and the enormous role of money in politics (especially corporate money) certainly raises some doubts. And during elections themselves, there are sometimes "voting irregularities" and suspicious moves that restrict the early voting period, available voting places, student voting, and introduce new hurtles for voters to pass in order to vote. These problems can also exist during the primary votes. And finally, there's the role of the media in election. If candidate A has little press coverage and meanwhile, the media can't stop talking about candidate B (for all the wrong reasons), take a guess who's going to get more votes on election day.
I have no idea what you mean by "men of global capital"? Capital as in money or capital as in a capital city of a political entity?
In my state Gary Johnson was on the ballot, Jill Stein wasn't. If they were popular, this wouldn't be a problem. As long as voters keep taking more of the dog that bites them, this will not improve.
Global capital aka billionaires with Swiss bank accounts. How come, in LA county, there are more registered voters, than the number of adult citizens? Not the only place ... both sides cheat for obvious reasons.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 06:19:54 PM
The center of the global capital is the imperial America...
Once upon a time the center was Britain but they passed it to America...
The US became a subsidiary of the British Empire in 1913 (Fed). Became more integrated with the British Empire by 1945. And Britain is a subsidiary of The City, has been since the Bank of England was formed. Why did the Rothschilds move their operations to PRC thru Hong Kong?
Finance has been bankrupt since 1971 ... now instead of absolute bankruptcy, we argue over relative bankruptcy ... is Britain for example, more bankrupt than France?
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 15, 2017, 10:29:15 PM
I mean -capitalism and capitalists and capital at the global scale- by -global capital- : )
Every US president since Wilson, has been a tool of international capital aka Rothschilds, but who do the Rothschilds work for?
"WE ARE AT THE PARTING OF THE WAYS. WE HAVE, NOT ONE OR TWO OR THREE, BUT MANY, ESTABLISHED AND FORMIDABLE MONOPOLIES... WE HAVE COME TO BE ONE OF THE WORST RULED, ONE OF THE MOST COMPLETELY CONTROLLED AND DOMINATED, GOVERNMENTS IN THE CIVILIZED WORLD--NO LONGER A GOVERNMENT BY FREE OPINION, NO LONGER A GOVERNMENT BY CONVICTION AND THE VOTE OF THE MAJORITY, BUT A GOVERNMENT BY THE OPINION AND THE DURESS OF SMALL GROUPS OF DOMINANT MEN." WOODROW WILSON, THE NEW FREEDOM, 1913
Not a warning, a blueprint.
Given how much of an effect the American presidency has on the rest of the world, maybe the rest of the world should have a say in who gets elected to that office.
I have no idea how that would work, though.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 04:11:22 PM
Given how much of an effect the American presidency has on the rest of the world, maybe the rest of the world should have a say in who gets elected to that office.
I have no idea how that would work, though.
Maybe we should withdraw (the US from the world). Let them have another world war, and this time we stay out of it. FU Europe. FU Asia.
The Presidency isn't supposed to be this powerful, but y'all love it as long as a Cultural Marxist is in office, right?
Who is "y'all"?
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 05:32:32 PM
Who is "y'all"?
Domestic enemies ... that DoD are sworn to fight (not just foreign enemies). See the Lincoln solution to political violence, is in play, and cuts both ways.
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 05:28:42 PM
Maybe we should withdraw (the US from the world). Let them have another world war, and this time we stay out of it. FU Europe. FU Asia.
The Presidency isn't supposed to be this powerful, but y'all love it as long as a Cultural Marxist is in office, right?
Absolutely! Goddamn YES! Yep, yep!!! Fucking A!! Mother Fucking Absolutely, 100%, Correctomondo, All The Fucking Way!!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 16, 2017, 07:43:10 PM
Absolutely! Goddamn YES! Yep, yep!!! Fucking A!! Mother Fucking Absolutely, 100%, Correctomondo, All The Fucking Way!!
Which part? You are being sarcastic, right? You are a Lenin loving UN embracing illegal alien, are you not? (sarc).
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 08:57:24 PM
Which part? You are being sarcastic, right? You are a Lenin loving UN embracing illegal alien, are you not? (sarc).
Absolutely! Goddamn YES! Yep, yep!!! Fucking A!! Mother Fucking Absolutely, 100%, Correctomondo, All The Fucking Way!!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 16, 2017, 09:23:50 PM
Absolutely! Goddamn YES! Yep, yep!!! Fucking A!! Mother Fucking Absolutely, 100%, Correctomondo, All The Fucking Way!!
We do love our Progressive echo chamber, do we not? ;-) You could always jam your foot down so hard, you are the new Rumplestiltskin.
The US is a representative democracy. That means we have the right to elect a President who is an utter blithering idiot by means of an Electoral College that isn't completely representative of the exact total voters. It wouldn't be the first time. It also means we can elect idiot Senators, idiot Representatives, and appoint idiot Justices to the Supreme Court from time to time.
Nothing is perfect. You name any nation, and I'll bet I can criticize the Government choice system.
Not that I am defending the 2016 Presidential election here...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 03:27:57 AM
The US is a representative democracy. That means we have the right to elect a President who is an utter blithering idiot by means of an Electoral College that isn't completely representative of the exact total voters. It wouldn't be the first time. It also means we can elect idiot Senators, idiot Representatives, and appoint idiot Justices to the Supreme Court from time to time.
Nothing is perfect. You name any nation, and I'll bet I can criticize the Government choice system.
Not that I am defending the 2016 Presidential election here...
Ah, sanity. Got over your hangover (just saying)?
Quote from: Baruch on August 17, 2017, 01:18:08 AM
We do love our Progressive echo chamber, do we not? ;-) You could always jam your foot down so hard, you are the new Rumplestiltskin.
Come on Baruch, I was only answering your idiocy with my own brand of idiocy. Can't take a joke?? Spose not--you are just too busy pontificating.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 17, 2017, 09:26:16 AM
Come on Baruch, I was only answering your idiocy with my own brand of idiocy. Can't take a joke?? Spose not--you are just too busy pontificating.
I see from the quote that Baruch is making as little sense as usual. Rumplestiltskin? He has visited too many "threads" LOL!
You need to stop responding to his posts, they never mean anythings actually.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 17, 2017, 09:26:16 AM
Come on Baruch, I was only answering your idiocy with my own brand of idiocy. Can't take a joke?? Spose not--you are just too busy pontificating.
No (sarc), no ;-) ... so no, you weren't joking, that has been clear all along. Just another American jihadi.
Quote from: Baruch on August 17, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
No (sarc), no ;-) ... so no, you weren't joking, that has been clear all along. Just another American jihadi.
Of course, Baruch, you are right. You say, therefore it is!!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 17, 2017, 04:57:12 PM
Of course, Baruch, you are right. You say, therefore it is!!
Looking at your chatter on baseball ... that reminds me of a theory I have about political behavior .. people who are highly competitive about sports (I hate X team but love Y team) ... have very polarized views of politics. Your personality supports that theory. I am not highly competitive about sports ... so my actual views aren't very polarized (and hence I am Centrist) ... though of course to people like me, polarized people are ... triggering. I don't find extreme partisanship about sports threatening, but in politics I do. Competing lemmings make me want to just opt out. This is also why you would never find me trying to get in the middle of a KKK vs Black Lives Matters rally ... regardless of who I lean toward. My prejudice leans toward BLM in that case.
When was the last time any president represented the nation?
Quote from: Baruch on August 17, 2017, 05:10:58 PM
Looking at your chatter on baseball ... that reminds me of a theory I have about political behavior .. people who are highly competitive about sports (I hate X team but love Y team) ... have very polarized views of politics. Your personality supports that theory. I am not highly competitive about sports ... so my actual views aren't very polarized (and hence I am Centrist) ... though of course to people like me, polarized people are ... triggering. I don't find extreme partisanship about sports threatening, but in politics I do. Competing lemmings make me want to just opt out. This is also why you would never find me trying to get in the middle of a KKK vs Black Lives Matters rally ... regardless of who I lean toward. My prejudice leans toward BLM in that case.
So, that is a hypothesis of yours, is it? I hope you have tested it with more than me. Since you don't really know me and you have not tested me in any meaningful way, I'd suggest you learn what a theory is--what a hypothesis is and what a guess is. I guess you should.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 17, 2017, 10:57:06 PM
So, that is a hypothesis of yours, is it? I hope you have tested it with more than me. Since you don't really know me and you have not tested me in any meaningful way, I'd suggest you learn what a theory is--what a hypothesis is and what a guess is. I guess you should.
The observation is based on years of observation of the political behavior of many Americans. If it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't. But doesn't invalidate the idea. Leftists would say however ... that sports is part of ur-fascism.
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 05:28:30 AM
The observation is based on years of observation of the political behavior of many Americans. If it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't. But doesn't invalidate the idea. Leftists would say however ... that sports is part of ur-fascism.
And we all know how unbiased of an observer you are, too. I don't care what the left--or the right--say sports is. I know you were just on the verge of asking, so I'll be glad to share why I'm drawn to baseball. It's the stats. Yep--the stats. I love that I can evaluate a player from 1910 to a player from 2016. It's not easy and a lot of different factors have to be taken into account, but it can be done fairly accurately, or so I think. It's the stats that supply that line of history that connects the game of then to now. Oddly enough, I don't read the life stories of any of my baseball 'hero's'. No, not even Babe Ruth. Why? Because they all have clay feet. I don't want to know all about Ruth and his chasing women. I don't want to know about Cobb and his nasty attitude and racism. I don't want to know about Mantle and his drinking and womanizing. I don't want to know about Bonds and his use/unuse of drugs. I love their stats and the stats that drive the game. And that's where I want to keep it.
The same with football, except the stats are not as neat and tidy as they are in baseball. So, I enjoy it because in HS I played it. My football hero's are based more on the position(s) I played than on anything else.
So, there you are. Put whatever spin you'd like on it--you always do.
My politics are based on the idea that the advancement of the human species is a virtue.
I see any political ideology that promotes hatred and bigotry, restricts freedom, retards justice, promotes superstition, allows environmental destruction, and advocates armed conflict as detrimental to human advancement. Policies that promote science, knowledge, rationality, freedom, fairness, openness, equality, understanding, brotherhood, health, peace and love are good for human advancement.
This is why I am a liberal, not a conservative. This is why I oppose fascism, communism, theocracy (of any religion, including Islam), and other forms of authoritarianism, and prefer social democracy.
Quote from: Atheon on August 18, 2017, 12:43:09 PM
My politics are based on the idea that the advancement of the human species is a virtue.
I see any political ideology that promotes hatred and bigotry, restricts freedom, retards justice, promotes superstition, allows environmental destruction, and advocates armed conflict as detrimental to human advancement. Policies that promote science, knowledge, rationality, freedom, fairness, openness, equality, understanding, brotherhood, health, peace and love are good for human advancement.
This is why I am a liberal, not a conservative. This is why I oppose fascism, communism, theocracy (of any religion, including Islam), and other forms of authoritarianism, and prefer social democracy.
Too bad you were born on the wrong planet ;-( I have developed over time, that I am not quite sure the human race is a good idea to begin with.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 03:27:57 AM
The US is a representative democracy. That means we have the right to elect a President who is an utter blithering idiot by means of an Electoral College that isn't completely representative of the exact total voters.
I used to think, naively, that the electoral college was there to keep us from electing someone like Chump - or GW Bush - but I've wised up some since then.
Quote from: Atheon on August 18, 2017, 12:43:09 PM
This is why I am a liberal, not a conservative.
Either that, or you just have a very small amygdala...
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 06:21:05 PM
I used to think, naively, that the electoral college was there to keep us from electing someone like Chump - or GW Bush - but I've wised up some since then.
Indeed, the electoral college is outdated and needs to go.
Yeah, but I bet it ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Quote from: Sorginak on August 18, 2017, 06:25:51 PM
Indeed, the electoral college is outdated and needs to go.
America is outdated ... and needs to go ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 07:51:51 PM
America is outdated ... and needs to go ;-)
True. Good thing patriotism is below me.
Neither. Trump is the candidate of bigots, xenophobes, and the hateful.
Quote from: Sorginak on August 18, 2017, 07:55:09 PM
True. Good thing patriotism is below me.
Anarchist, or Soros NWO trooper?
Quote from: Shiranu on August 18, 2017, 08:02:19 PM
Neither. Trump is the candidate of bigots, xenophobes, and the hateful.
Good thing I didn't vote for him. I doubt many regulars here did, if any.
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 08:03:13 PM
Anarchist, or Soros NWO trooper?
Just reasonably minded.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 17, 2017, 09:41:47 PM
When was the last time any president represented the nation?
1. George Washington
2. John Adams
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. James Madison
5. James Monroe
6. John Quincy Adams
7. Andrew Jackson
8. Martin Van Buren
9. William Henry Harrison
10. John Tyler
11. James K. Polk
12. Zachary Taylor
13. Millard Fillmore
14. Franklin Pierce
15. James Buchanan
16. Abraham Lincoln
17. Andrew Johnson
18. Ulysses S. Grant
19. Rutherford B. Hayes
20. James Garfield
21. Chester A. Arthur
22. Grover Cleveland
23. Benjamin Harrison
24. Grover Cleveland
25. William McKinley
26. Theodore Roosevelt
27. William Howard Taft
28. Woodrow Wilson
29. Warren G. Harding
30. Calvin Coolidge
31. Herbert Hoover
32. Franklin D. Roosevelt
33. Harry S. Truman
34. Dwight D. Eisenhower
35. John F. Kennedy
36. Lyndon B. Johnson
37. Richard M. Nixon
38. Gerald R. Ford
39. James Carter
40. Ronald Reagan
41. George H. W. Bush
42. William J. Clinton
43. George W. Bush
44. Barack Obama
Note the absence of one...
Yeah, no.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 01:31:37 AM
You disagree with one or many?
Jason doesn't say much. I shake the runes that he is referring to the original title of the string.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 06:53:21 AM
Jason doesn't say much. I shake the runes that he is referring to the original title of the string.
Trump is merely a capitalist seeking fortune anywhere, expecting to get away with it...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 09:45:28 AM
Trump is merely a capitalist seeking fortune anywhere, expecting to get away with it...
Capitalists usually do. Hillary just got away with another ... not only is her email of no interest to the public (a judge decided), but it is perfectly legal for political parties to rape their own primaries (a judge decided today). Sorry, at that rate, I will never support any political parties ... not even the Greens. If they are just Kurgans with their fancy technology from S Russia, raping and pillaging all the way to Ireland, then count me out!
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Capitalists usually do. Hillary just go away with another ... not only is her email of no interest to the public (a judge decided), but it is perfectly legal for political parties to rape their own primaries (a judge decided today). Sorry, at that rate, I will never support any political parties ... not even the Greens. If they are just Kurgans with their fancy technology from S Russia, raping and pillaging all the way to Ireland, then count me out!
I don't particularly like either political party...
Republicans don't want any government and would be frantic if that happened.
Democrats want too much government and would rail if that happened.
Libertarians think they want mercantile anarchy but would be terrified at it if it happened.
And the rest are irrelevant.