https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxj41M-xwa0
Yes, Islam isn't entirely original, and it is partly built on what came before. Same as any other religion. Also "paganism" shouldn't be a curse word anymore, particularly if you aren't even a monotheist yourself.
That was pretty interesting. But I even get bored with criticisms of theisms sometimes.
I'm more interested with what fellow atheists think of current events and how to solve current problems.
You know, I am wondering about this hajj.
There are between 2 to 3 million believers in one place. Year after year.
What about sanitation? Where does all that sewage going?
The smell must be quite something.
And another thing. They also slaughtering tens of thousands of livestock.
Halal slaughter with rivers of blood.
Imagine an outbrake of a contagious disease that can be carried back to all the countries the pilgrims come from.
Nightmare.
.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 14, 2017, 02:34:30 AM
That was pretty interesting. But I even get bored with criticisms of theisms sometimes.
I'm more interested with what fellow atheists think of current events and how to solve current problems.
There are plenty of other strings where you can go worship Hillary etc ;-)
Quote from: pr126 on August 14, 2017, 05:32:03 AM
You know, I am wondering about this hajj.
There are between 2 to 3 million believers in one place. Year after year.
What about sanitation? Where does all that sewage going?
The smell must be quite something.
And another thing. They also slaughtering tens of thousands of livestock.
Halal slaughter with rivers of blood.
Imagine an outbrake of a contagious disease that can be carried back to all the countries the pilgrims come from.
Nightmare.
Well we can just confine everyone to their houses. You car and mine cause global warming ... what's the SA religious police to do? Tell the royals to stop selling petroleum?
I do not own a car, cannot drive.
Do farts cause global warming? Then I am guilty as charged.
Quote from: pr126 on August 14, 2017, 06:50:54 AM
I do not own a car, cannot drive.
No excuse, in the holy war against petroleum, you need to keep your neighbors from driving ;-)
This is odd.
Those “global warming†enthusiast have no intention to stop using fossil fuel until the last drop.
Quote from: pr126 on August 14, 2017, 06:54:00 AM
This is odd.
Those “global warming†enthusiast have no intention to stop using fossil fuel until the last drop.
That is what the conspiracy theorists think about Al Gore too, on this side of the Pond. They just want a privileged class of car drivers ... not for the hoi polloi.
Quote from: pr126 on August 14, 2017, 05:32:03 AM
You know, I am wondering about this hajj.
There are between 2 to 3 million believers in one place. Year after year.
What about sanitation? Where does all that sewage going?
The smell must be quite something.
And another thing. They also slaughtering tens of thousands of livestock.
Halal slaughter with rivers of blood.
Imagine an outbrake of a contagious disease that can be carried back to all the countries the pilgrims come from.
Nightmare.
It take a theist to care about the haji... LOL! You are as nutso as the Islamists...
Do you know where the Europeans even GOT their ideas about sanitation?
.
nothing doing so far. allow me then
Thanks pr152 . . Great video. Pro stuff. Some money and expertise went into making it. Gainsaid said but Lets hope the effort is not wasted . too much to hope.
And gainsaid because no dispute of worth was leveled . Barouch conceded except others also were pagans shit borrowing. Cavebear talking usual nonsense. No Dr Seuss for him. .
.
What should follow it is treatment of the text in quran . Textual analysis of the text bearing on change of direction of prayer .learn to tear up the text.
two things
1- The command to change the direction are verses that were inserted in the sura. Piece of cake to show that
2- The text includes Keys telling the reader what it is saying is false giving rise to the possibility the verses were written by someone who was forced to write them and afterwards disposed with .Sura was originally in syriac, christian stuff. its one thing for Moahmmed to say this and that and it's another thing figuring a way to alter, modify and shove new stuff into the manuscripts. there is where you look for the bluunders.
The Islamic official narrative shows once Mohammed assumed the reign of power he immediately disposed of bunch of locally based experts in the manuscripts. they drummed up some excuses for doing it.
Evidence that ... the original Al Miraj was from a place in Mecca, not Jerusalem. But it was "moved" to Jerusalem to satisfy Caliph Omar, who occupied it, and the Ummayads after him (they preferred Damascus as capital).
Hey, PR, you're a pagan to me.
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 18, 2017, 03:25:28 AM
nothing doing so far. allow me then
Thanks pr152 . . Great video. Pro stuff. Some money and expertise went into making it. Gainsaid said but Lets hope the effort is not wasted . too much to hope.
And gainsaid because no dispute of worth was leveled . Barouch conceded except others also were pagans shit borrowing. Cavebear talking usual nonsense. No Dr Seuss for him. .
.
What should follow it is treatment of the text in quran . Textual analysis of the text bearing on change of direction of prayer .learn to tear up the text.
two things
1- The command to change the direction are verses that were inserted in the sura. Piece of cake to show that
2- The text includes Keys telling the reader what it is saying is false giving rise to the possibility the verses were written by someone who was forced to write them and afterwards disposed with .Sura was originally in syriac, christian stuff. its one thing for Moahmmed to say this and that and it's another thing figuring a way to alter, modify and shove new stuff into the manuscripts. there is where you look for the bluunders.
The Islamic official narrative shows once Mohammed assumed the reign of power he immediately disposed of bunch of locally based experts in the manuscripts. they drummed up some excuses for doing it.
Gee and here I was bout to go to bed! But this is too interesting... I'm wondering if these new Ibn guys are bots...
cavebear , come here .
@Barouch ,what is the evidence ? can you tell me ?
Here is something else that occurred to me . The Satanic versus . Mohammed in the Mecca quran was out to co opt the Arabs which thing acknowledged their gods . but later they were abrogated .
There remains however two verses in the Mecca quran that still do .Do you know those verses Barouch ? I mean an expert in islam like you surely must know
While you are it can you show those inserted verses in the sura that commanded the change of the direction and explain why they are considered insertions ? .
So you want to get into formal scholastic text criticism? Surely not. Text criticism isn't acknowledged as legitimate by any religious authorities. It hurts their ... authority. And I am not an expert myself on text criticism, I rely on others scholarship. Tom Holland for instance. However text criticism has been helpful for atheists. The myths regarding Jewish, Christian and Muslims scripture ... are Medieval fantasies. They were written by real people, not by angels, not by G-d. Inspiration is ... questionable as well. These writings seem all to human. You may gain from the following if you haven't already see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2SvqhfevE
That is not an answer to my questions. you're dodging .why do you dodge ?
Your response failed to answer the questions. great pictures and and words . so what ?
Barouch don’t make this difficult. lets get this done quickly . I have no time to bandy words
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:04:12 PM
So you want to get into formal scholastic text criticism? Surely not. Text criticism isn't acknowledged as legitimate by any religious authorities. It hurts their ... authority. And I am not an expert myself on text criticism, I rely on others scholarship. Tom Holland for instance. However text criticism has been helpful for atheists. The myths regarding Jewish, Christian and Muslims scripture ... are Medieval fantasies. They were written by real people, not by angels, not by G-d. Inspiration is ... questionable as well. These writings seem all to human. You may gain from the following if you haven't already see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2SvqhfevE
The Pirates of Penzance? Surely you jest. No, and stop calling me shirley!
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:12:20 PM
That is not an answer to my questions. you're dodging .why do you dodge ?
Your response failed to answer the questions. great pictures and and words . so what ?
Barouch don’t make this difficult. lets get this done quickly . I have no time to bandy words
What the imams or rabbis have to say about anything ... are lies. Clergy are all liars. Christian priests also. I was married to clergy, I know. So what clergy says that scripture means, or religious practice means ... it is all lies. Either you have a direct connection to G-d without clergy or you are in jahiliyyah. My speech is elliptical, because I don't want to call people out, for being the %&%^$ they actually are. It isn't my place to do that.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:22:56 PM
The Pirates of Penzance? Surely you jest. No, and stop calling me shirley!
Yes, it is a brilliant parody ... not that a fur ball like you would get that. Study some Finkelstein sometime. You should like him ... he has no respect for rabbinic authority!
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:25:14 PM
Yes, it is a brilliant parody ... not that a fur ball like you would get that. Study some Finkelstein sometime. You should like him ... he has no respect for rabbinic authority!
Ah the furballs and De Quervain's tenosynovitis. One never knows, do one... The connection obscurata... Well. if you were here you'd be home by now.
what do they say Barouch ? tell me what do they say ? speak. say it . whether they lied I'll be the judge of that for myself if you don't mind and others for themselves
what I want to establish is the hundred of millions of Muslims out there as to what they believe the sura says about Jews and Christians
this is not about you . this about Muslims and their esteemed scholars
c'mon say it say it. this is good for you .
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
what do they say Barouch ? tell me what do they say ? speak. say it . whether they lied I'll be the judge of that for myself if you don't mind and others for themselves
what I want to establish is the hundred of millions of Muslims out there as to what they believe the sura says about Jews and Christians
this is not about you . this about Muslims and their esteemed scholars
c'mon say it say it. this is good for you .
Do you have murder and mayhem on your mind?
See #19 above. Otherwise do your own homework or buzz off. I wouldn't let my Hebrew students get away with your crap. Sheik and bake.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
See #19 above. Otherwise do your own homework or buzz off. I wouldn't let my Hebrew students get away with your crap. Sheik and bake.
Aw man, I had him ready to support violence...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:02:00 PM
Aw man, I had him ready to support violence...
Perhaps a self-hating Arab. Self-hating Jew is a common stereotype too. You really want to see his Catholic hand smacking his Muslim head? Three Stooges ... but that is the holy Trinity ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 03:04:17 PM
Perhaps a self-hating Arab. Self-hating Jew is a common stereotype too. You really want to see his Catholic hand smacking his Muslim head? Three Stooges ... but that is the holy Trinity ;-))
I meant as a concept, not an event. I just want to see him saying it...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:06:12 PM
I meant as a concept, not an event. I just want to see him saying it...
He would, if you say something bad about Pope Francis ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
He would, if you say something bad about Pope Francis ;-(
Does a Pope Francis shit in the woods?
cavebear , why? DO you want to help yourself?
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 03:33:38 PM
cavebear , why? DO you want to help yourself?
I am. Every day in every way, I make myself a better person than the theist nuts around me...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:05:04 PM
I am. Every day in every way, I make myself a better person than the theist nuts around me...
Why do you hate squirrels? What about Chip and Dale?
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:09:06 PM
Why do you hate squirrels? What about Chip and Dale?
Bad furniture. Too ornate.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:12:59 PM
Bad furniture. Too ornate.
And somebody always starts opening cans at the wrong end.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 20, 2017, 08:26:38 PM
And somebody always starts opening cans at the wrong end.
How does one do that?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 20, 2017, 08:26:38 PM
And somebody always starts opening cans at the wrong end.
Are you thinking of those cans of New England Brown Bread? You MUST open them at the bottom or it never tastes quite right.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 06:36:53 AM
Are you thinking of those cans of New England Brown Bread? You MUST open them at the bottom or it never tastes quite right.
We always loved new england brown bread in my growing up. We just can't find it around here ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:19:13 AM
We always loved new england brown bread in my growing up. We just can't find it around here ;-(
Walmart's website says they sell it... Just checked...
Quote from: Sorginak on August 20, 2017, 08:28:00 PM
How does one do that?
Simples. Chip was in a can. Dale started opening cans to find him. Looong after he should have suffocated Dale finds him in the very last can. Chip pointed out he was actually in the first can, but Dale started on the wrong end of the stack.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 26, 2017, 08:59:37 PM
Simples. Chip was in a can. Dale started opening cans to find him. Looong after he should have suffocated Dale finds him in the very last can. Chip pointed out he was actually in the first can, but Dale started on the wrong end of the stack.
Sometimes you are a lot weirder than Baruch. That's not a good thing...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:24:17 AM
Sometimes you are a lot weirder than Baruch. That's not a good thing...
He is probably remembering a cartoon. Good for you ... then Gawdzilla will remember you, cartoon that you are ;-0
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 26, 2017, 08:59:37 PM
Simples. Chip was in a can. Dale started opening cans to find him. Looong after he should have suffocated Dale finds him in the very last can. Chip pointed out he was actually in the first can, but Dale started on the wrong end of the stack.
I just realized your point. Not bad! If what you want is in the last place you look, you should look there first!
And that actually works for me. I never lose keys and wallets etc because I look in the last place first!
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 06:43:31 AM
He is probably remembering a cartoon. Good for you ... then Gawdzilla will remember you, cartoon that you are ;-0
And you are an old painting. So?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:24:17 AM
Sometimes you are a lot weirder than Baruch. That's not a good thing...
That's how the cartoon went. It's a parable.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 31, 2017, 10:30:57 AM
That's how the cartoon went. It's a parable.
Did you pay royalties to Jesus Inc?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 31, 2017, 10:30:57 AM
That's how the cartoon went. It's a parable.
Nothing like a good parable to confuse things... The parabler the better...
A blackbird, a finch and a hummingbird went to my feeders at the same time today. They all went to separate ones, not knowing I was the source of their food.
Parable.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 11:00:20 AM
Nothing like a good parable to confuse things... The parabler the better...
A blackbird, a finch and a hummingbird went to my feeders at the same time today. They all went to separate ones, not knowing I was the source of their food.
Parable.
An atheist plays god ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 12:47:45 PM
An atheist plays god ;-)
They can't tell. And I'll admit that opens a lot of doors to you. But *I* know where the birdfood comes from and I expect to die som
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:08:08 PM
They can't tell. And I'll admit that opens a lot of doors to you. But *I* know where the birdfood comes from and I expect to die som
Yes, the Romans authorities and the Jewish quislings are not amused ... prepare to be crucified ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 08:38:06 PM
Yes, the Romans authorities and the Jewish quislings are not amused ... prepare to be crucified ;-)
The abbreviated sentence was a small joke... Did you catch it?