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News & General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: SoldierofFortune on August 11, 2017, 02:20:57 PM

Title: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: SoldierofFortune on August 11, 2017, 02:20:57 PM
Atheism claims that there is no God.

Other than rejecting the existence of any God, atheists may not have the same ideas on anything.

Because atheism is not a religion or doctrine... The atheists may have  very different ideas on politics, on world view etc...

So, there cant be a -united atheist organisation- :D
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 11, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
Atheism claims that there is no God.

Other than rejecting the existence of any God, atheists may not have the same ideas on anything.

Because atheism is not a religion or doctrine... The atheists may have  very different ideas on politics, on world view etc...

So, there cant be a -united atheist organisation- :D
All atheists have one thing and one thing only, in common.  They do not believe in any god(s).  Other than that, there is no common thought based on atheism.  That's why it is often said that trying to get atheists to agree on anything (other than nonbelief) is like trying to herd cats. 

But I'm sure there are atheist organisations and I'm sure those organizations have common goals in mind for why they organized.  I just don't really know of any myself--because I'm not fond of organizations.  Well, except for baseball teams. 
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2017, 03:48:53 PM
Atheism claims that there is no God.

Other than rejecting the existence of any God, atheists may not have the same ideas on anything.

Because atheism is not a religion or doctrine... The atheists may have  very different ideas on politics, on world view etc...

So, there cant be a -united atheist organisation- :D
Correct.  There's no common ideology, just the absence of theism.

That said, there are positions that atheists often gravitate towards, like secularism, naturalism, and scientific skepticism.  But that isn't necessarily the case all the time.  Instead of secularism, one could support state atheism.  Instead of naturalism, one could believe in non-deity supernatural beings.  And instead of scientific skepticism, one could hold a less robust skeptical position or it could be lacking entirely and one's religious doubt could come from some other reason.

Atheist is an extremely broad category, so there are bound to be plenty of differences between individuals.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 11, 2017, 03:53:28 PM
Big-tent atheism is all the rage these days...
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2017, 07:37:59 PM
Big-tent atheism is all the rage these days...

Implying Democrats? ;-)  With identity politics, it is more like a large cluster of small tents.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: SGOS on August 11, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
I think it's only fair that all atheists should have one global atheist organization, just like the organization that represents everyone who doesn't collect stamps.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 04:13:43 AM
I think it's only fair that all atheists should have one global atheist organization, just like the organization that represents everyone who doesn't collect stamps.

There is still the atheist groups.  I have one in my Will.   Life member American Atheists, Inc.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Atheon on August 12, 2017, 04:28:56 AM
Atheists can't even claim rationalism as a common thread. There are many atheists who believe in pseudoscience, the supernatural, and other woo.

Politics? Forget it. there are atheists who run the gamut from right-wingers, left-wingers, alt-right, SJW, authoritarians, libertarians, Commies, Nazis, feudalists, anarcho-syndicalists, monarchists, peaceniks, warmongers, to centrists.

Behavior? Atheists can be saintly good or unspeakably evil, they can be quiet, contemplative types or crazy party dudes.

The only thing we have in common is a lack of belief in gods.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Munch on August 12, 2017, 06:13:45 AM
I like to think atheism lets people reach a level of shared logic and reasoning on certain matters that let them have mutual discussion on topics.

Not all gay men and women share the same outlook on things but they form groups and communities based on their sexuality, so in the same way atheism shares that kind of outlook.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 06:36:21 AM
I like to think atheism lets people reach a level of shared logic and reasoning on certain matters that let them have mutual discussion on topics.

Not all gay men and women share the same outlook on things but they form groups and communities based on their sexuality, so in the same way atheism shares that kind of outlook.

And not all straight men and women agree either on atheism.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2017, 09:06:13 AM
I like to think atheism lets people reach a level of shared logic and reasoning on certain matters that let them have mutual discussion on topics.

Not all gay men and women share the same outlook on things but they form groups and communities based on their sexuality, so in the same way atheism shares that kind of outlook.

Most of you agree on the same definition of "Atheist" ... which is part of, but not inclusive of, the dictionary definitions or scholarship.  And minimalist philosophical rationalism, because most of you don't like philosophy.  Logic and reasoning mostly work with logicians and mathematicians, not with regular human language.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: SGOS on August 12, 2017, 09:24:57 AM
Logic and reasoning mostly work with logicians and mathematicians, not with regular human language.
That's kind of the point of logic, to help cut through the incoherence of human language, and the mental traps thereby created.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2017, 12:06:19 PM
That's kind of the point of logic, to help cut through the incoherence of human language, and the mental traps thereby created.

Real logic is abstract.  The logic of speech is polemic and apologetic, strictly rationalizing bullshit.  Human language is like Washington DC, swamp all the way down.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
That's kind of the point of logic, to help cut through the incoherence of human language, and the mental traps thereby created.

Yeah, I used to know a crazed gun nut who was atheist.  Still have never understood that.  But there he was...
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2017, 04:13:54 PM
Yeah, I used to know a crazed gun nut who was atheist.  Still have never understood that.  But there he was...

One actual counter-example destroys anyone's rationalizing.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: aitm on August 12, 2017, 04:17:16 PM
I wouldn't let any of you fuckers near my dog, let alone me......okay that was wrong......I would let you near me,,,but not my dog.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 04:28:41 PM
I wouldn't let any of you fuckers near my dog, let alone me......okay that was wrong......I would let you near me,,,but not my dog.

OMC, don't crack up or get pissed, but I actually came to think of you as your avatar!  Not that I would expect anyone to think of me as mine, but well, it's all I know of you.  OK, now I'm gonna just stare at my shoes in utter embarrassment...
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Munch on August 12, 2017, 07:13:05 PM
theres no accounting of lunacy
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2017, 04:57:24 PM
Implying Democrats? ;-)  With identity politics, it is more like a large cluster of small tents.
I was implying nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2017, 05:03:37 PM
Most of you agree on the same definition of "Atheist"
I don't know about that:


17 Kinds of Atheism (http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487)
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Sylar on August 15, 2017, 06:00:03 PM
Speaking out against persecution of atheists is something that unites all atheists, besides lack of belief in deities.

No atheist wishes people were persecuted for their atheism, I would think.

In some countries the persecution is mild, extending no further than being disowned by family or shunned by small-town community (of course, neither is mild for the atheist). In others, atheism means death.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2017, 06:56:10 PM
theres no accounting of lunacy

So CPAs by definition are sane?
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2017, 06:57:48 PM
I don't know about that:


17 Kinds of Atheism (http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487)

That is another group, a larger survey, not this particular community.  And ... one particular definition is often used in argument here ... not that it is wrong.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Sorginak on August 15, 2017, 06:59:17 PM
That is another group, a larger survey, not this particular community.  And ... one particular definition is often used in argument here ... not that it is wrong.

Be careful with that "w" word, for stating something is wrong may very well lead to you being wrong.
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2017, 07:01:33 PM
Be careful with that "w" word, for stating something is wrong may very well lead to you being wrong.

If there isn't more than one definition for everything, then there should be.  Don't be narrow minded.  And I know I am wrong, I revel in it.  Wrong, not bad ;-)
Title: Re: Any mutual understanding should be among atheists other than atheism?
Post by: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 05:02:55 AM
I've been involved in too many arguments about the definition of  "atheism" over decades to want to get involved in another.  It is a useless debate.