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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: Ibn Khaldun on August 10, 2017, 08:30:22 AM

Title: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 10, 2017, 08:30:22 AM
 
This is going to revolve and center around the OMB ,  organization of Muslims brothers . I welcome any questions and input , but please limit them to the subject matter . better still if you initially limit your input to questions  regarding clarification of the things I put down . English is medium that is challenging for me to grabble with , some of the documentation have to be supported by material in Arabic which is a challenge to translate to English adequately  .

Questions and inquiries about the OMB abound . President Trump considered designating them as a terrorist organization which would have placed their important members on the treasury list with damning results . no one in this world would want to be faced with the prospect of being placed in that list .

The OMB or al jamaa’ as they’re also called , are they going to be the beneficiaries of  the decline of Christianity in the West  ? Will the OMB ride on the shoulder of secularists and atheists to corridors of power and  onward to the reigns of power ? Are they going to start a political party ? are they going to nominate and elect one of  their numbers ? In the event they  succeed what will be the state of minorities under the rule of the OMB ? 

Massive amount of money is poured in the west to effect OMB dominance. Branches of government have been infiltrated by their members . Universities and colleges ,law enforcement and  courts have been infiltrated. important industry sectors and businesses  some of which  today are owned by them . certain state and city municipalities are infiltrated and  partially owned by the OMB . College faculties and media concerns are compensated with sizable deposits   in off shore accounts to illicit co operation  .   During elections massive funds are deposited and channeled leading nominees to espouse calls for building mosques and ignore sermons, militant jihadist  schools , etc .   Demand for Muslim clerics has reached critical and enviable levels. Turkey sending close to a thousand cleric to Germany alone  . German college funded by oil gulf money hard at work training future Muslim clerics .

Many more questions that should provide for  interesting and exciting discussion.

Seems while people are busy wondering if it is possible to reform Islam, they’re being reformed by Islam  . after all the OMB started out as a reform  movement . Hassan Al Bana was a reformist .Over the decades the OMB accumulated `incredible  dexterous , refined  and   formidable organizational skills .   

Please do not quote . use @ so and so . clogs the thread. Good guys . good

now I'm going to go hide lest you beat me up. I'm new in the country and i really don't know  you well enough. you could be violent . don't beat me up please. I'm sorry .
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: pr126 on August 10, 2017, 09:30:27 AM
Not sure about the title of the OP. What is this to do with reforming atheism?
In Islam atheist have only two options. Convert or die.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Blackleaf on August 10, 2017, 12:14:17 PM
The title and body of the OP seem to have nothing in common between them. Did you mean to ask if it's possible to reform Islam?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Hydra009 on August 10, 2017, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 10, 2017, 08:30:22 AMPlease do not quote . use @ so and so . clogs the thread.
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.ise12CjZlYPnYHGQ4kSSCAEsEs&pid=Api&w=180&h=181)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: SoldierofFortune on August 10, 2017, 01:29:30 PM
I dont know much about Muslim Brothers but
Terrorist organisations in the world are used as a style of war...
This style of war doesnt resemble the conventional wars that we know and
there are terrorist organisations to accuire political goals...

American presence in some middle east countries is by the way of terrorist organisations...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: pr126 on August 10, 2017, 01:34:26 PM
What Ibn Khaldun means is the Muslim Brotherhood. Or MB for short.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Muslim_Brotherhood
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Munch on August 10, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
Clickbait title.

Although I won't disagree the Muslim brotherhood is one that wants to bulldoze over western values, since it is a theocracy, and that's what theocracies do.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: pr126 on August 10, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Ibn Khaldun wrote:
Quoteare they going to nominate and elect one of  their numbers ?

Keith Ellison  (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Keith_Ellison)

http://freebeacon.com/tag/muslim-brotherhood/
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 10, 2017, 04:40:01 PM
 Someone needs to open a post about sharia law. If you’re Muslim who left Islam , as long as you keep it to yourself nobody is going to bother you chances are and depending  . if it is made  known  that you’re you get three days to recant , if not then your head goes .  you recant you are out of the reach of  huddud which in this case death sentence  . Then comes al tanzir .The ruler has the say on what appropriate punishment comes next .look sharia law  is rigged to give the ruler arbitrary powers. I will do a post on that .

That’s what the OMB is asking. They think Atheists are path of least resistance. I mean that’s what I heard them say . I saw this Muslim girl at the super market and my mind went haywire . I started talking that shit to myself, my wife,  what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her and life is short , you know that self serving rationalizations. . I worked my way into getting her to give me a piece of tail end and her dad is one of them . He liked me because I can fake being Muslim really good  because I know Islam better than them . he was really impressed , start calling me sheikh . bring the sheikh coffee. Then he started talking to me about their shit and then about meeting his cahoon and taking oath and shit . it was no big deal. I went back to my wife. I love my wife.

Let me just make a statement here . Never ever let someone/something  make you hate . hate makes you weak and possible to exploit .  hate can consume you .  worst part makes you miss on good pussy  . don’t hate Muslims . hate Islam . I know I know I don’t have to tell you that . I’m just telling you I’m not like that .

Who is this OMB , organization of Muslim brotherhood

Well according to the casual narrative , its an organization that was created by an Egyptian guy called Hassan AL Bana in Egypt in 1928 . The head of the OMB is called Al Murshid AL Am  .  Since 1928 there has been 8 of them .

some of its famous members are  :

Al Sheikh Abed  Allah Azam . the spiritual father of Jihadist movement in Afghanistan and also the spiritual father of Osama bin Laden .

Musatfa  al-Qaradawi . based in Qatar .  chairman of the International Union of Muslim Scholars. Involved in one billion dollar propaganda movie about mohammed , financed by Qatar . Matrix movie producer will make it . lot of bad shit about this guy . global intifada. Represented in the USA &Europe  through front  Islamic orgs.

Dr. Zaghlool AL Najar . He accused the Copts of killing wafa’ Gostanteen  and habitual ly engages in attacking and debasing Coptic/Christian beliefs and way of life  in  hate speeches  that lead to terrorist attacks on Copts . Check US supreme court definition of hate speech . I’m pretty sure one criteria is that its one that  leads to action.you say something and that something you said precipitate a crime . Best if you familiarize yourself with the rules so you can call your congressman and let him know when  you hear that sort of speech being peddled  .

Khalid Mushal , head of Hamas political office in Syria .

And of course Sayyid Qutbwhose proselytizing was moving engine for the jihadist movements all over the world  .writings worked its way into school books. Foremost hater of the US .was  hanged

There are others but I have to steer clear from mentioning them . you do your home work .but you get the idea.  They got you focused on trying to figure terrorist profile and shit and lone wolf when the heads of the snake are  clear for all to see.  Organize and home in on the OMB heads  at  your place . do it through the appropriate channel and by the law . abide by the law. stay away from following the trail of money . you saw that billion dollar of qatar .use some other evidence . better for you . you do not want to end up like the guy  who stabbed  himself in the back ten times , shot himself in the head few times and then threw himself  from the balcony of the high rise.

Publicly The OMB describe their movement as a  comprehensive reformation movement that cover all aspects of life . In other words  Sharia law . Because Sharia law regulates the Muslim person life from bathroom how to wipe his behind  to what to think.

How did it really start and what exactly is its ideas and agenda ?

I will give the perspective of three known  experts .beyond that nothing but speculations and conspiracy theories  because shit is in classified files and won’t  be released till long after we’re gone .  what I will provide are perspectives from the east  not doctored or edited before it got to censors in  the West.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 10, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
Quote from: pr126 on August 10, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Ibn Khaldun wrote:
Keith Ellison  (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Keith_Ellison)

http://freebeacon.com/tag/muslim-brotherhood/

Rep. Ellison didn't get to be the chair of the DNC ... so I think not.  In terms of electing one of their own members, I think they do, of the congregation of Satan.  Lie, defraud and steal.  If necessary then assault, kidnap, rape and murder.  But this is a universal brotherhood of Satan, in all countries, in all political parties.  The community of sociopaths and psychopaths.  Criminality isn't limited to particular religions.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 11, 2017, 03:56:30 AM
@Barouch . now  I did say head of the snake , but that is because the medium I am using is English and I have difficulty with that . what I would have said if I was speaking Arabic would have been another expression . roughly an elephant and its shadow . the OMB leaders are the elephant and the shadow the terrorist and lone wolf . but people wouldn’t understand me .but I did say snake  and I was wrong and I now would like to retract . My error  is not a license for you to go call your brother man Satan . Calling people Satan is common in Islamic sermons . They call countries that too . In iran they get people to make huge crowds and chant America is Satan . I’m talking millions . One incident in excess of four million Iranian chanted America is Satan.

Its  got nothing to do with Satan . The quran tells Muslims that Allah hates the majority of people . Of the 7 billion or so people on earth the quran tells Muslims that Allah hates  all who are not Muslims . if you do the mass that comes to  roughly 5.5 billion  assuming Shiite and sunnas and what have you are all Muslims which debatable to some Muslims . so the figure can be greater .   and that he sends Shiateen( Satans) to go into their heads to make them  bad.  It tells them Allah does not love non Muslims  and is out to doom them by deceiving them and misleading them .if there is  Satan its got to be Allah . you have to conclude.  he fits the character description given by various religions.

the verses are in the quran , would you like me to post them for you ? we can open a new post and discuss  How Allah works with Satans . this here is about OMB.

Less please leave all that hate inspiring Muslim language out of here. Okay ? you want to discuss it , open another post . I will join you. Be more than glad.

And it is Muslim language because they excel in it . politicians, imams, school teacher, TV channels , new papers , you name it , everyday , month , year , occasion, etc

c'mon get it together please.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2017, 06:55:47 AM
Politics is the work of liars, and in the Gospel of John, lying is called the native language of Satan.  But I appreciate your kind response, particularly in a language you aren't native to.

Which dialect of Arabic is your home tongue, or did you learn it as a liturgical language ... if I may ask.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 11, 2017, 07:14:04 AM
OP, do you want to tell us when to breathe?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 11, 2017, 01:56:31 PM
@gwadzilla,  wife has the menses and cold  . have to be mister sensitive . put everything in pot and turned fire to make soup. Forget talking business on phone and shit burned  . she yelled. I ran . too late . threw pot in the trash . opened canned soup and served her . I love cooking .

@Brouch   everyone lies. Resist using subversive equivalency and unbalanced comparison to block peoples’ understanding  . do not call politicians liars . I just read some of Abraham Lincoln biography .He was no liar. Worry about yourself  lying .  charity begins at home   
.   
The first expert is an  Egyptian Professor , ex Muslim.

she is average but with a couple  attractive features .  She got nice meaty lips and long deep mouth and she does open that mouth wider than  Methodist preacher . At full throttle   when the light is at the right angel I could see inside to her  molars   . her boobs are big and they stick out and up which  makes it hard for the  devoted student   to concentrate.  After class when no one was around I reached out and squeezed her boob. She just looked . when I let go  she smacked me  in the face and told me not to do it again. I was a with her a lot  , e.g.  for lunch. She kind of treated me as though I was  teenager , and  like the son she didn’t have . . she had an operation and she called me after she came from the hospital and I stayed with her few nights . She had like an encyclopedic mind . she was interested in teaching me not have sex . one of few asexual women I met . and  like any academic she expects you to connect the points . she is published .

she  begins :
” … in 1928 there was man called Hasan Al Bana with strong beliefs tilting towards wahabism  who called for the resurrection of Islam so as  to give back to the Umma its respect and eminence in the face of collapse of the Ottoman empire following the 1st world war .  Using the colonial presence of the British he advocated holy Jihad/war to expel the British and started to recruit people . And that was beginning of the idea “

Two quick comments on my parts. I interject comments coupel of times  to illustrate to you how to handle her shit. Then you do it yourself . -

1-   She said “using”. He used  .  . that means in her academic jargon  demagoguery ..use or create people grievances to achieve your goal . So you conclude OMB can use anything , colonialism, poverty, Israel occupation, so called American imperialism , political persuasions/polarization, global economy conspiracy ,  terrorism  and of course Braouch politician are liars bit  etc . Main thing, crucial thing  to watch out for, they offer themselves as the solution to those problems . during social upheaval times  they become appealing option. So that means they  cause it - 

2-   She began with saying ..there is a man…. That means look in his past by yourself because for some reason she can’t or won’t. Academic self preservation. But the information you want is in his past . basically British colonialism was a blessing to its colonies , rail road, hospitals, colleges and the greatest gift  is of course British civil   service ,etc .
She continues :”   but Hasan Al Bana didn’t get far . His idea did not spread far because he lacked support , the sort of support the OMB receives today  from Oil Rich countries that  is in  the hundreds of millions..Secondly   Hassan AL Bana failed to use the right technique   . Pictures show his daughters not wearing Hijab . he didn’t advocate not listening to music . . “
Comment

1-   Money figure is much larger  factored in the so called 20 or thereabout prime banks  money supply, guidance policies. Off top my head , over 2  trillion held via nominees . so this is no no area for you. You don’t go hey wait a minute there is trillion dollars that disappeared . you do you will disappear too. any body who does is working for the big players.

2-    Hasan Al Bana past . he had no  behavior modification skills to  cancel  recruits   individuality / personality . Hassan was the past . where he came from his job was traditional Imam mainly agitating on Friday sermon according to the ruler directives . he didn’t need those skills. Those skills were acquired later on through a cadre trained at  the soviet union ( no  music allowed notion)  and that French University  soborne , Oxford University . you can name some  according to each college . so basically they got the skills from the Left . but in  your public narrative you say from the West . That means Left. Also points to evolution in skill and formation .

3-   British rule realigned the interest of locals, britsih created civil servants Muslims away from Muslim clergy . So Bana was struggling to make a living.

4-   Hijab switched from what it was to  passive terrorism . what Hijab was originally will need  a lengthy exposition. Fun shit . e.g. pretty boys had to wear hijab in Mohammed time . 

no more comments . straight from her shit .
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 06:07:30 AM
Ibn is a troll...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 12, 2017, 08:33:02 AM
@Cavebear ebear...people are trying to discuss here . stop fooling  will ya ? come  back next week . 

Roughly in my own words here is her take   .

1-   The OMB  plays behind the scenes . they can and do project a democratic edifice calling for democratic government and civil rule .they let their other arms  face the music in case there is retaliation by regimes. They do not lead . they plan orchestrate in the background .

2-   Once they gain the reign of powers they quickly and immediately engage in liquidation of democratic institutions…….for  example ,  purge of secular members of military , police, intelligence. . Next seizer  of country wealth either by confiscation , assassination, grants of concession to all lucrative  government  contracts to its members and  diversion of tax revenues and custom tariffs to off shore bank accounts . sale of government land and money off to off  shore banks ,  massive print out of local currency to buy all hard currency in and coming into the country  , inflame inflation to force people to spend their savings , expatriates to send more money to relatives exchanged with fast devaluating local currency .  all government granted privileges  in terms of license to do business impacting stable diets reassigned to its members  as well as insurance, banking ( Islamic banking) , import /export  all of that is called by them Tamkeen / enablement .remmber that word Tamkeen or tamkin . key word in their literature

3-   to fill in for all the theft of the country wealth they borrow money to keep things  running  from for example, imf  or and oil gulf countries in collusion with them .. the money that they borrow from Oil rich golf countries is actually their money they deposited in those oil rich gulf countries from robbing the wealth of the country they control , who in turn deposit the money  in the west to accrue interest or in western funds .  if they get ejected they got all the country wealth outside the country and the people of the country are stuck with the massive debts .

4-   all international charity services and donation must go through them . they appropriate all of it . UN donated food and what have you sold openly. They get the donated services and food and what not and profit from it  . In return the UN  gets the commissions and administrative costs . 

the vital thing here to understand , the OMB  is not nation based idea .  Its an international organization. it goes into a country to suck the blood out of that country . its not there for the welfare of the country .

1-   once they grab the power  or  once they set their foot in a country , they bring in their affiliated violent arms ,Islamic  jihad orgs, Islamic jama’t orgs for example.  Islamic jihad orgs are specialized in assassination of opponents inside and outside . Islamic jama’t are specialized in recruiting from colleges , mosques , prisons and assigning  those recruits according to potential to the OMB itself or Islamic jihad , etc

2-   Once in the  country for an extended period either as rulers or infiltrators they create an extremely  charged environment  where there are so many affiliated splinters Islamic- cut throat militias  or orgs  , potential lone wolves , so that if the OMB gets ejected a power void is created and the place explodes into in fighting . they set it up so that they and they only can keep the relative peace. s gives them leverage either with rival regime in power or dissuades foreign players from ejecting them in case they are in power  or listing them as terrorist orgs.

3-   In terms of population control in countries they control they have set up a mechanism to liquidate one third of the city if that is what it takes to stay in power.  They make that well known to any opposition with any ideas to get in their way . opposition groups know very well that the OMB doesn’t play around . they will half a city to stay in power.

Who is this OMB?   Obviously Hasan Al Bana is not the originator . she said he had wahabist persuasions . but she didn’t say much more on that . we’re done with her . I threw her book out the window. She is too scared to talk. Let’s  move to the next expert
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Jason78 on August 12, 2017, 11:42:55 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 06:07:30 AM
Ibn is a troll...

You don't say? 
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 03:39:49 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 12, 2017, 08:33:02 AM
@Cavebear ebear...people are trying to discuss here . stop fooling  will ya ? come  back next week . 

Roughly in my own words here is her take   .

1-   The OMB  plays behind the scenes . they can and do project a democratic edifice calling for democratic government and civil rule .they let their other arms  face the music in case there is retaliation by regimes. They do not lead . they plan orchestrate in the background .

Ibn, are you arguing for a particular Islamist view or against it all.  It is hard to tell.  OK, I want to hear more.  But try a couple short paragraphs at a time and a few focused thoughts...

That's why I'm here.  You just make more sense than Baruch ever dioes...

I will admit that too much argument at once is hard to absorb.  Give a bit of information and wait...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 13, 2017, 04:16:20 AM
@ Caveman. Too early to argumentation. 

Here is what the  OMB guy said to me. He said Muslims (ottomans)  ruled Greeks for 300 years without Islam making an impression on them. They stayed Christian. Two there is something in Islam called Mu’alaf. That is a person you pay off to become a Muslim and stay that way .this first phase. Second phase work  on the guy , relatives , kids , the young ones, his family/relatives  to make them bona fide Muslims. Marriage to them , make the kids who grow Muslims. Something like that .  based on that he said their Dawa ( call ) efforts  is being directed at Atheists , agnostics, non religious etc. family law is the big  hitch for them.

if there are things   you do not understand ,  fix them . make what I say understandable or fix the erros or change altogether. I don't mind. . . That is how you can help. If you want to , that is . the books are large and I have to skim through them quickly.translate shit truthfully .add to that   I have three screens starring at me with numbers flying. Phone to talk.  and that neurotic feisty combative western woman of mine who has to be the center of attention .i have to throw stuff on the screen in  quick . Sorry. but I do read whole  pamphlets .newsletters   at times .  several at once  . don't worry about being exact . fix things later .

Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2017, 06:39:54 AM
With the Ottomans, they also kidnapped Christian boys, to raise them as Muslim pretorian guard of the Sultan, as Janissaries.  But that is old times, and even other Muslims didn't like the Ottomans.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 13, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2017, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 13, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon

Ikhwan - as in Ibn Saud militia?  The Ibn Saud family was backed by the India Office (British Empire had two different Foreign Ministries ... ) and by the Americans.  This trumped the Hashemites backed by the Foreign Office and Lawrence.

But you are talking over a larger question, not just Ottomans.

There is nothing new that humans use ideology and theology to structure the rationalizing of their actions, both good and bad.  If you have an independent conscience, then you will find the actions of people to be deeply disturbing ... and their ideology and theology to be hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 14, 2017, 02:28:33 AM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 13, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon

I am a completely non-cultural, non-racist atheist.  All theisms are idiotic regardless of where and by whom.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 14, 2017, 08:59:00 AM
OP, you should enter yourself in the new Olympic event,  babbling on about nonsense on forums.  You'll win a gold medal hands down .
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 14, 2017, 10:18:48 AM
did i say all that . did I really? well its up there so I must have

itsd a problem I tell you.We have serious problem . Barouch has  been here much longer than me and cave bear understood zero from hi. My situation is better way better than you  . With me cavebear understood two zeros and thats  just in  the short time  I have been. at this rate i shoudl be able to get to three zeros now. .

wait for me . don't go anywhere . I shall return.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 14, 2017, 12:56:22 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 14, 2017, 10:18:48 AM

wait for me . don't go anywhere . I shall return.
But................why??????
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 15, 2017, 04:39:38 AM
ask yourself . i got nothing to do with it .

talk about The OMB . I order you. you do as I order you to do.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 06:41:53 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 14, 2017, 12:56:22 PM
But................why??????

Leave if you must, but know that we atheists LOVE reading your stupidity and would hate to see you leave for lack of an opportunity for a sarcastic reply to start out every day.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 18, 2017, 02:32:32 AM
cavebear,  this is not the time. There is no we . you’re not awake  you keep playing around and I’ll lose my focus and the articles will get longer . go read Dr Seuss take  on Wikipedia and report to me . .be good boy. behave yourself. now run along. get a life 

This is  going to conclude with something that has been  going on lately. The OMB is recruiting what it calls  Atheist Muslim. Atheists for Islam groups.  But first allow me to finish my exposition about the three experts take on the OMB.. 

*****7 million butchered when the world was much smaller *****

Scholars caution not  to  mix between AL AKhwan (brothers ) of Arabia with the Akhawn of Egypt . Don’t pay them any mind . they’re all the same  .  they all have  the same rule and want the same thing. .Sharia and the restoration of the Caliph/ one mosque, one authority.

Goal.....Resurrect Mohammed and company,  The  Joint Sultan and Alim(cleric) rule. those who  refuse to go along Kill  , take the  property and women and children .

Not everyone, with some people, whether they go along or not it doesn’t matter. Kill them and take their property and violate their women , regardless. Like yazidis .. note ISIS didn’t offer Yazidis the option to convert. they just went ahead and helped themselves .
.
The union of the Sultan and the Alim( clergy)  .that’s what you look for .once that union is created   death and mayhem ensues .

How the two were joined in Arabia in the  1800.

There  was a guy called Mohammed Abd Al Whab. Basically an ignoramus  who was calling for the establishment of the Caliph .Guy was very disgusted with current affairs. Wealthy Ottomans dressed  lavishly showing their wealth on pilgrimage. Sufi Sheikhs screwing the women in exchange of supplying them with a spell  written on small paper to make sure husband doesn’t take a second  wife and what have you in terms of family affairs.    He kept talking that BS until his clan alarmed by it  all  threw his behind out.

scholars try to throw a smoke screen about what the guy is about. They say he came up with the Takfir idea  and in particular takfir of Muslims and that his Takfir meant ,  any Muslim  who didn’t go along with his idea of caliph is to be killed. They say it as if the guy came up with the idea. That is BS. Its not new. Its old. Abd AL wahab didn’t invent  it . he got it from the Islamic narrative of  Mohammed and his companion. But scholars can’t say that openly. The Muslims , Ottomans and sufis,  he had condemned , would have been considered Kafirs by Mohammed nad the judgement of Kafir per sharia falls on them .

All the years Abd al Wahab talked that shit nothing happened .not one thing.  just another  schizo mouthing away. Exactly and precisely as was the case  with Mohammed . Nobody got killed . No women and children were taken captive and violated. Everything  normal.

At  the same time there was a small time clan chief living the normal desert life. Abd al Aziz of ibn saud .  Now and then going on raids , taking other Arab clans by surprise in the middle of nite and taking off with some of their stuff . but desert codes were observed . no wanton muderous shit. you didn't resist , he took off with the grain and fabric sort of thing. and few camels. . . Specially exciting times for all the clans  were those  pilgrimage times when the clans attacked robbed  pilgrimages  which helped sustain the clans through the harsh arid land.

Abd AL wahab who got kicked out by his clan had serious problem. Disowned by his  clan  that meant his blood can be shed with impunity . he was no longer under the protection of his  clan. Like Cain in the bible , God threw him out of his presence and so shedding his  blood became  open to others .  .

Abd AL Azziz  offerd him refuge , liking and approving of one authority one mosque doctrine . That in effect created the union  of the Sultan and Alim .

With Mohammed it was union of himself with two cut throat  tribes  of  yathrib.

From that point on  the program changed . no more just raiding . Abd AL Aziz attacked weaker clans with the full weight of his clan. All warriors from young and old were marshaled … not raid but battle .  Banners and flags  were constructed and waved , with a battle cry c Allah wa akbar , la Ilah ila Allah , according to religion Allah shall reward me , according to my faith Allah shall reward me, according to my ancestors he shall. Allah wa  Akbar ,  slay the look alike of men but are not men , cleanse the land from the accursed . . they fill Allah heart with rage . Allah wa Akbar , etc.  . the weaker clan was butchered graphically . It drew the young men from all over the tribes. sex and violence. They wanted to join in . .other clans seeing what is happening offered their allegiance. he kept on doing it  till he had sizable army.

And so  Islam was back

the terror of the land resurrected .   it was better than Jenkins Khan. Khan killed only half the place if they surrendered to him.  . Abd AL Aziz killed everyone .. no one was spared . women but for the plump ones were destroyed . rules had to be obeyed . take too many women and children how are you going to feed them? So kill them all, take the wealth and few women to replace the ones you got fed up with or you can’t sell  and young kids for future slave warriors.

By  the time the Ottomans managed to enlist the services of Mohammed Ali Basha of Egypt between Abd Al Aziz and his two sons , FOUR MILLION people were killed. The killing spread from Arabia to Iraq , Syria and Palestine .It was as if  ISIS operated unhindered.

  Ibn Saud operated freely until Mohammed Ali Bash with his at the early stages modernized army stepped into the scene . untill then rampage meant  life was great , plenty food to eat, so much money and precious stuff, herds of camels . women sex slaves . ,Allah does indeed bestow his  gifts on those who listen ..

You know  they tell you that Mohammed was poor ? Not  true . one time poor impecunious Mohammed reached such highs he  supplied  his wives with enough sustenance to last  two years straight. Man did great . from broke ass Mecca resident to top of the heap yathrib immigrant.  And young people love a success story like that.

As with ISIS and as with Mohammed who took one fifth of the loot ,  Abed Al aziz did the same. Shit alienated some of  his main Arab tribal  allies. They made a deal with Mohammed Ali rep and AL Saud  were whipped at Asir . the rest withdrew into the desert.

The Union was unraveled . Mohammed Ali boys took all the clerics , the abd al wahabs and cut off their heads . They left all the clan chiefs alone except for Ibn Saud whom they  exquisitely executed .

.half ass solution.  The alim was gone but the sultan remained . and anyways you could always manufacture more clerics in the future. Better still they manufacturer themselves . Islam  does it for you..

The Idea  was in  India and it was main cause behind the split of India. Moreover  The wahabis of western Pakistan butchered 3 million eastern Pakistanis ( now Bangladesh) . a major massacre that the media never talked about .

So total harvest  was 7 Million give and take..

Will make comments later on. Give you a chance first .asleep people who think they’re awake are not  included.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 05:07:14 AM
The human story is mostly tragedy, not much comedy ;-(
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:51:34 AM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 18, 2017, 02:32:32 AM
cavebear,  this is not the time. There is no we . you’re not awake  you keep playing around and I’ll lose my focus and the articles will get longer . go read Dr Seuss take  on Wikipedia and report to me . .be good boy. behave yourself. now run along. get a life 

Will make comments later on. Give you a chance first .asleep people who think they’re awake are not  included.


Ibn thinks Dr Suess is essential to my religious beliefs.  I must have referenced liking the stories and he picked that up.

And there may be more than one Ibn.  Some posts seem very different than others.  One Ibn post claimed he was catholic.

The replies to me are very unintentionally humerous.  "Be a good boy"?  "Check Dr Seuss on Wikipedia"?  "you keep playing around and I’ll lose my focus and the articles will get longer"?  LOL!

Some people and bots are just weird!  If that IS a real Moslem, he is setting a record for bizarre.

Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 05:13:12 AM
I don't know if ANYONE actually read Ibn Kaldun's post, but here is just one paragraph in the middle of it...

"And so  Islam was back the terror of the land resurrected .   it was better than Jenkins Khan. Khan killed only half the place if they surrendered to him.  . Abd AL Aziz killed everyone .. no one was spared . women but for the plump ones were destroyed . rules had to be obeyed . take too many women and children how are you going to feed them? So kill them all, take the wealth and few women to replace the ones you got fed up with or you can’t sell  and young kids for future slave warriors."

If that isn't as close to insanity as you can get not being locked up, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 05:13:12 AM
I don't know if ANYONE actually read Ibn Kaldun's post, but here is just one paragraph in the middle of it...

"And so  Islam was back the terror of the land resurrected .   it was better than Jenkins Khan. Khan killed only half the place if they surrendered to him.  . Abd AL Aziz killed everyone .. no one was spared . women but for the plump ones were destroyed . rules had to be obeyed . take too many women and children how are you going to feed them? So kill them all, take the wealth and few women to replace the ones you got fed up with or you can’t sell  and young kids for future slave warriors."

If that isn't as close to insanity as you can get not being locked up, I don't know what is.

He seems to really hate ... historical Islam.  Has an even more negative view of it than a Christian does.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 10:47:22 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
He seems to really hate ... historical Islam.  Has an even more negative view of it than a Christian does.

Ok, I got an email saying you actually made sense of this, so I looked and you did.  Congrats.  Try to do it more often...

I'll reply:  Yes Ibn seems to vary between hate and love of his professed theism.  Not unlike some of other theists about their own beliefs.  Ibn's posts are very hard to follow, more bizarre than most, pretty much confused and contradictory,  but that is what I expect from most theists, so it isn't a great surprise. 

I can understand him a small bit.  Islam is less rational than most theisms.  So it it is easy to get confused in it.  I may actually understand it more clearly than he does, having studied it from the outside.

Have you done the same?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 12:01:31 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 10:47:22 AM
Ok, I got an email saying you actually made sense of this, so I looked and you did.  Congrats.  Try to do it more often...

I'll reply:  Yes Ibn seems to vary between hate and love of his professed theism.  Not unlike some of other theists about their own beliefs.  Ibn's posts are very hard to follow, more bizarre than most, pretty much confused and contradictory,  but that is what I expect from most theists, so it isn't a great surprise. 

I can understand him a small bit.  Islam is less rational than most theisms.  So it it is easy to get confused in it.  I may actually understand it more clearly than he does, having studied it from the outside.

Have you done the same?

I am a bit of an expert in comparative religion.  I sometimes try to read the Quran in the original language (but my Arabic isn't very good).  Again, the point is to speak and hear Islam, this is why audio recordings of famous singers, chanting the Quran, are so popular in Islam.  Originally the Psalms were chanted too.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
My beloved Atheists , whats going on? do I have the floor

C avebear , what you need to do is explain yourself and not explain me .

Sadly the record shows:

in my introduction post you  claimed that you  did research about surat Al Fatiha and  cited Wikipedia article  on suart al Fatiha as the  source and then you  gave a totally inaccurate account of Wikipedia exposition of surat Al Fatiha  by stating  that Wikipedia  described   surat al fatiha as  mostly speaking of , in your own words , ’”we love god and diminishing humans crap”. That is not true not even remotely so , not to mention the word love was not even mentioned in the Wikipedia account .
perhaps you need to explain your in accurate account in light of your claim that it is the product of research by you. Not for my sake but your sake.what you say has no impact on beyond empathy for you.

Then you directed a question to me that If that was what I wanted then it was fine by you . the problem here the  context of  my exchange with Barouch about surat al fatiha  revolved around my charge that surat al fatiha teaches hate of Jews and Christian . that Wikipedia account supported and validated that charge .

Perhaps You need to explain to yourself how your inaccurate account could possibly be what I want given my exchange with Barouch .what I would want would be  corroboration of my claims bearing on the sura. Wikipedia account does that .
You have been going into my  posts dismissing and vilifying them in  subversive manner, that’s is without  substance other than to dismiss and vilify. .  . in the case of surat al fatiha by an inaccurate account that could not possibly be the result of a research. In others by claiming you knew the stuff I talked about .in another you said to leave “us” alone and you complained about the length of my articulation . and in pr152 post by mocking my post which  interacted positively  by covering an area very much related to the context of the OP. A video was posted that touched on the change of the direction of prayer. That change was commanded in the Quran and I said those verses were inserted in the quranic text . I said that would be easy to show .in the post in your first entry you said you found the post boring. Then to my post you said what you said . its there .
You say things like “leave [us] alone “ and “we”  and you warn other saying “let us be awrae “ that I’m more than one person and some other stuff that is weird. Look I’m not a shrink . but when someone talks to me like that I feel as though I should urge  the person to seek help. Its possible you just want to be the center of attention  , but your behavior might also be rooted in mental issues .

Cavebear I’m just me .there is no one else . and Ibn means  son . its not a name . onlky me . there is no we , no us .

@Barouch, few posts after you told me this is the best atheist forum I started to wonder if it was because they let you stay  for so long derailing posts and talking nonsense . even cavebear said that in the short time I have been here he understood more from me  than he has in all the time you have been here . do you realize how serious is that to come  for someone like cavebear ? if cavebear says that given his situation

I told you many times to desist from insulting people.  You referred to  the members of this site as peanut gallery . you called people Satan.everytiem I told you to stop.  Now you said that Christians have negative views of  Muslims  by claiming that I hate historical islam .  Do you realize what it is you have  said  Barouch ?  you just condemned all Christians . That is a very sick thing to say and to say it at your age is significant . when people get to your age and still say things like that then there is very little chance they will change .

Is that how you see Christians Barouch ?  do you have Christian neighbors? Do you let them know that you think that of them  ?  Or do you hide and smile ? what gives you the right to say that Barouch? who are you ?

The problem here you say you’re a jew. When I  went to America, when I arrived there , I hated Jews and thought they were evil based on the nurturing I received at home. If you said to me something good about jews I concluded you were working for them or a spy. My mind was such I couldn’t accept that a jews could be anything good because that would mean evil is good . but then I met this naughty  Jewish girl and she seduced me into knowing her intimately several times  . After that I no longer thought that Jews were evil. The thought was banished from my mind . I was healed from that curse so that when we went back home, me and the rest of the company I was the only one who no longer thought jews were evil. I was of teh opinion jews are not anyhting like you Barouch.

Now I’m not suggesting that could work as a cure for you seeing as thought you’re over the hill and two cents short of a six pack in that area, but hey why not try ?  got to the sex clinic and have the doctor do something about your hormone level. Then go to china and have them install batteries or something . China  price sensitive product ideal for cash strapped senior citizens.

Look I like to attribute your hateful remarks towards Christians are nothing more than the slip of the tongue. So don’t worry about it . a lot of Arabs feel as you do towards Christians . I think its  some kind of envy because Christians make you  look bad by comparison . there hundreds of Christians charities operating in the slumps of Muslims majority countries helping provide all kind of services. Christians operate in areas where the UN itself doesn’t dare operate . In particular those American die hard evangelists . I’ve seen them with my own eyes. I have seen shit that boggles the eyes . American evangelist driving trucks loaded with medicine and supplies  in ,muddy impassable terrains and through mine fields. I have seen with my own eyes nun walking into hut full of ebola infected victims. I’m eye witness of that . But not only the poor but also the wealthy Muslims  benefit immensely from Christians , from the best schools and colleges . some of  the best schools in Muslims majority countries are Christians schools and Muslims flock and compete to enter them .

No I don’t hate Muslims.  I’m not someone capable of hate . I just don’t have it in me . I can produce many Muslims who would be willing to lay their life on the line for me .  that’s why I can speak freely . I expose  history because  the  history shows Islam has caused and still cause so much pain and suffering to Muslims .

I gave an account of an expert detailing the butchering of 7 Million Muslims. Your response was a lone sentence that went oh oh just another human deal. Yes it was another human deal albeit one incriminating and condemning Islam. You don’t care about Muslims . you care about Islam .  you were upset because the account made Islam look like shit . that’s what bothered you.c’mon admit barouch .

You have been going around in this forum acting like the village clown . you make jews look bad . you say things that make Jews look bad. And you like it here because they let you do it . I mean that’s what you must have meant when you said to me its the best atheist forum.  everyone testimony about you so far says they think you’re  a joke.you don't mind becasue you refuse to fix your ways  what you’re doing is subverting by posing as the village clown. 

Now I warned you before but you failed to listen , next I am going to trample on Islam so bad you’re  gonna hurt real bad. Not because I hate Muslims but because I love them and want to free them from that evil.  You on the other hand are bent on pandering to that evil so millions more get butchered.

you're not an expert in Islam . nothing you have  said shows it . listening to quran recitals in arabic doesn't prove you are an expert . you don't even by your own admission understand  what the guy is saying .what is wrog with you. you are funny

hey with great admiration  . carry on .

now would you all please cool it  so i can finish  this post . go play in someone else post

next i want to do the 3rd expert . oh wait the  comments next
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 01:40:46 PM
Relatively coherent (not that I am complaining).  Many Jews make Jews look bad ... that isn't any problem (see many Israelis).  This is the same with any group of people, however you define if they are in or out.

You want to liberate Muslims?  Isn't that megalomania ... are you sure you have saved yourself yet?  How can you save others?  And what are you saving them toward ... Catholicism?  Just questions, not judgements.  And no, I welcome Cavebear's criticisms of me ... it tells me how right I really am ;-)

I don't see one way of life as being the only correct one.  Maybe no way of life is correct ... but we poor ape men must do what we can while we still breath.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
My beloved Atheists , whats going on? do I have the floor

C avebear , what you need to do is explain yourself and not explain me .

Sadly the record shows:

in my introduction post you  claimed that you  did research about surat Al Fatiha and  cited Wikipedia article  on suart al Fatiha as the  source and then you  gave a totally inaccurate account of Wikipedia exposition of surat Al Fatiha  by stating  that Wikipedia  described   surat al fatiha as  mostly speaking of , in your own words , ’”we love god and diminishing humans crap”. That is not true not even remotely so , not to mention the word love was not even mentioned in the Wikipedia account .
perhaps you need to explain your in accurate account in light of your claim that it is the product of research by you. Not for my sake but your sake.what you say has no impact on beyond empathy for you.

Then you directed a question to me that If that was what I wanted then it was fine by you . the problem here the  context of  my exchange with Barouch about surat al fatiha  revolved around my charge that surat al fatiha teaches hate of Jews and Christian . that Wikipedia account supported and validated that charge .

Perhaps You need to explain to yourself how your inaccurate account could possibly be what I want given my exchange with Barouch .what I would want would be  corroboration of my claims bearing on the sura. Wikipedia account does that .
You have been going into my  posts dismissing and vilifying them in  subversive manner, that’s is without  substance other than to dismiss and vilify. .  . in the case of surat al fatiha by an inaccurate account that could not possibly be the result of a research. In others by claiming you knew the stuff I talked about .in another you said to leave “us” alone and you complained about the length of my articulation . and in pr152 post by mocking my post which  interacted positively  by covering an area very much related to the context of the OP. A video was posted that touched on the change of the direction of prayer. That change was commanded in the Quran and I said those verses were inserted in the quranic text . I said that would be easy to show .in the post in your first entry you said you found the post boring. Then to my post you said what you said . its there .
You say things like “leave [us] alone “ and “we”  and you warn other saying “let us be awrae “ that I’m more than one person and some other stuff that is weird. Look I’m not a shrink . but when someone talks to me like that I feel as though I should urge  the person to seek help. Its possible you just want to be the center of attention  , but your behavior might also be rooted in mental issues .

Cavebear I’m just me .there is no one else . and Ibn means  son . its not a name . onlky me . there is no we , no us .

@Barouch, few posts after you told me this is the best atheist forum I started to wonder if it was because they let you stay  for so long derailing posts and talking nonsense . even cavebear said that in the short time I have been here he understood more from me  than he has in all the time you have been here . do you realize how serious is that to come  for someone like cavebear ? if cavebear says that given his situation

I told you many times to desist from insulting people.  You referred to  the members of this site as peanut gallery . you called people Satan.everytiem I told you to stop.  Now you said that Christians have negative views of  Muslims  by claiming that I hate historical islam .  Do you realize what it is you have  said  Barouch ?  you just condemned all Christians . That is a very sick thing to say and to say it at your age is significant . when people get to your age and still say things like that then there is very little chance they will change .

Is that how you see Christians Barouch ?  do you have Christian neighbors? Do you let them know that you think that of them  ?  Or do you hide and smile ? what gives you the right to say that Barouch? who are you ?

The problem here you say you’re a jew. When I  went to America, when I arrived there , I hated Jews and thought they were evil based on the nurturing I received at home. If you said to me something good about jews I concluded you were working for them or a spy. My mind was such I couldn’t accept that a jews could be anything good because that would mean evil is good . but then I met this naughty  Jewish girl and she seduced me into knowing her intimately several times  . After that I no longer thought that Jews were evil. The thought was banished from my mind . I was healed from that curse so that when we went back home, me and the rest of the company I was the only one who no longer thought jews were evil. I was of teh opinion jews are not anyhting like you Barouch.

Now I’m not suggesting that could work as a cure for you seeing as thought you’re over the hill and two cents short of a six pack in that area, but hey why not try ?  got to the sex clinic and have the doctor do something about your hormone level. Then go to china and have them install batteries or something . China  price sensitive product ideal for cash strapped senior citizens.

Look I like to attribute your hateful remarks towards Christians are nothing more than the slip of the tongue. So don’t worry about it . a lot of Arabs feel as you do towards Christians . I think its  some kind of envy because Christians make you  look bad by comparison . there hundreds of Christians charities operating in the slumps of Muslims majority countries helping provide all kind of services. Christians operate in areas where the UN itself doesn’t dare operate . In particular those American die hard evangelists . I’ve seen them with my own eyes. I have seen shit that boggles the eyes . American evangelist driving trucks loaded with medicine and supplies  in ,muddy impassable terrains and through mine fields. I have seen with my own eyes nun walking into hut full of ebola infected victims. I’m eye witness of that . But not only the poor but also the wealthy Muslims  benefit immensely from Christians , from the best schools and colleges . some of  the best schools in Muslims majority countries are Christians schools and Muslims flock and compete to enter them .

No I don’t hate Muslims.  I’m not someone capable of hate . I just don’t have it in me . I can produce many Muslims who would be willing to lay their life on the line for me .  that’s why I can speak freely . I expose  history because  the  history shows Islam has caused and still cause so much pain and suffering to Muslims .

I gave an account of an expert detailing the butchering of 7 Million Muslims. Your response was a lone sentence that went oh oh just another human deal. Yes it was another human deal albeit one incriminating and condemning Islam. You don’t care about Muslims . you care about Islam .  you were upset because the account made Islam look like shit . that’s what bothered you.c’mon admit barouch .

You have been going around in this forum acting like the village clown . you make jews look bad . you say things that make Jews look bad. And you like it here because they let you do it . I mean that’s what you must have meant when you said to me its the best atheist forum.  everyone testimony about you so far says they think you’re  a joke.you don't mind becasue you refuse to fix your ways  what you’re doing is subverting by posing as the village clown. 

Now I warned you before but you failed to listen , next I am going to trample on Islam so bad you’re  gonna hurt real bad. Not because I hate Muslims but because I love them and want to free them from that evil.  You on the other hand are bent on pandering to that evil so millions more get butchered.

you're not an expert in Islam . nothing you have  said shows it . listening to quran recitals in arabic doesn't prove you are an expert . you don't even by your own admission understand  what the guy is saying .what is wrog with you. you are funny

hey with great admiration  . carry on .

now would you all please cool it  so i can finish  this post . go play in someone else post

next i want to do the 3rd expert . oh wait the  comments next

To put it simply. no matter what approach I try, your posts mostly seem like gibberish by the end.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 01:53:50 PM
. all i want is for you to explain that inaccurate account you gave about Wikipedia take on surat al fatiha in my introduction post .  you said you did research . you said your source is Wikipedia . you gave an account that does not remotely reflect Wikipedia take on surat al fatiha. Explain why ?

moreover you suggested that was what I wanted . Given the exchange i was having with Barouch that couldn't be it  .

if are you out to subvert and vilify my posts I don’t mind . I’m just trying to understand you
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 01:54:25 PM
Now that the peanuts have had their say ...

Quote
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Ù±Ù,,رَÙ'Ø­Ù'Ù...َٰنِ Ù±Ù,,رَÙ'حِيÙ...ِ
Ù...َاÙ,,ِكِ ÙŠÙŽÙˆÙ'Ù...ِ Ù±Ù,,دِÙ'ينِ
إِيَÙ'اكَ نَعÙ'بُدُ وَإِيَÙ'اكَ نَسÙ'تَعِينُ
ٱهÙ'دِنَا اÙ,,صِÙ'رَاطَ Ù±Ù,,Ù'Ù...ُسÙ'تَÙ,ِيÙ...ÙŽ
صِرَاطَ Ù±Ù,,ÙŽÙ'ذِينَ Ø£ÙŽÙ†Ù'عَÙ...Ù'تَ عَÙ,,ÙŽÙŠÙ'هِÙ...Ù' غَيÙ'رِ
Ù±Ù,,Ù'Ù...َغÙ'ضُوبِ عَÙ,,ÙŽÙŠÙ'هِÙ...Ù' ÙˆÙŽÙ,,َا Ù±Ù,,ضَÙ'Ø¢Ù,,ِÙ'ين


Bismillaah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem
Al hamdu lillaahi rabbil ‘alameen
Ar-Rahman ar-Raheem Maaliki yaumid Deen
Iyyaaka na’abudu wa iyyaaka nasta’een
Ihdinas siraatal mustaqeem
Siraatal ladheena an ‘amta’ alaihim
Ghairil maghduubi’ alaihim waladaaleen
Aameen

In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning.
You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.

I find no fault in this, even though it is the basis of the Quran.  There is nothing in it that is anti-Jewish or anti-Christian.  It preaches universal, not sectarian monotheism.  Initially Muslim, Jew and Christian could worship together (in separate places in the same church) when the Muslims conquered the Middle East.  Segregated, like men and women were segregated by sex (in all three religions).  Of course fear, anger and violence eventually forced us to worship in separate facilities.  But it wasn't like that in the beginning, because outside of Yathrib, mosques hadn't been built yet.  Of course human beings being sinners, we couldn't allow shalom/salaam/pax to manifest.  The thing that the religious fear the most is the real G-d.  Atheists are not afraid.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
Barouch what you find as fault or not is irrelevant .you do not  speak for Islam or Muslims
.
what is the consensus among scholars of all schools . what do all the schools of islam teach Muslims about the sura  ? what do Muslims believe the sura says about jews and Christians

what does wikipedia whom you cited often as your source says about the sura  regarding what Muslims  believe it says about jews and christians  ? .

surely and expert in islam like you can tell me 
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:06:32 PM
hey barocuh lets  open a separate post for this .

in this post however you may feel free  to explain your indictment of Christians   and your  accusations about me as hating the historical I don't know what
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
Barouch what you find as fault or not is irrelevant .you do not  speak for Islam or Muslims
.
what is the consensus among scholars of all schools . what do all the schools of islam teach Muslims about the sura  ? what do Muslims believe the sura says about jews and Christians

what does wikipedia whom you cited often as your source says about the sura  regarding what Muslims  believe it says about jews and christians  ? .

surely and expert in islam like you can tell me

You can rely on clerical authority if you want.  But if you can't decide for yourself, then you are immature.  Also Wikipedia is a useful source, but not uncritically.

And you don't want to know what the average Likud voter thinks of Islam and Muslims.  I don't.

I already tried to open a separate post, but the litterbugs found it.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:08:56 PM
You can rely on clerical authority if you want.  But if you can't decide for yourself, then you are immature.  Also Wikipedia is a useful source, but not uncritically.

And you don't want to know what the average Likud voter thinks of Islam and Muslims.  I don't.

I already tried to open a separate post, but the litterbugs found it.

I detected...
"Me man, Deity dominated the Earth, high Spirit", and I couldn't follow it after that at all.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
barouch , no body is interested in what you think people should decide . you are dodging again


The question is : what do scholars of Islam covering all schools of islam past and present  plus  what do Muslims believe surat al fatiha says about Christians and jews ?

What does Wikipedia say about what Muslims scholars say about what surat al fatiha says about jews and Christians ?

C’mon say it . out with it . let's go
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:25:21 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
barouch , no body is interested in what you think people should decide . you are dodging again


The question is : what do scholars of Islam covering all schools of islam past and present  plus  what do Muslims believe surat al fatiha says about Christians and jews ?

What does Wikipedia say about what Muslims scholars say about what surat al fatiha says about jews and Christians ?

C’mon say it . out with it . let's go

Don't tell anyone, but I'm beginning to understand Baruch and even defend him.  Shhh!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:26:57 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
barouch , no body is interested in what you think people should decide . you are dodging again


The question is : what do scholars of Islam covering all schools of islam past and present  plus  what do Muslims believe surat al fatiha says about Christians and jews ?

What does Wikipedia say about what Muslims scholars say about what surat al fatiha says about jews and Christians ?

C’mon say it . out with it . let's go

And I have no interest in anyone's "I hate this religion because ...".  Keep your hate to yourself.  And you can read Wikipedia for yourself.  There are lots of lies in it (Wikipedia in general).

I am not going to hate human beings (for real).  I am not going to hate my Muslim brothers and sisters either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L-GOHa5-YQ
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:25:21 PM
Don't tell anyone, but I'm beginning to understand Baruch and even defend him.  Shhh!

You are still evolving.  I see you have reached the sucker-fish level ;-)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:31:29 PM
You are still evolving.  I see you have reached the sucker-fish level ;-)

Every step up...  I just don't the a post-count drive you do.  And don't care about it.  We are different.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
Every step up...  I just don't the a post-count drive you do.  And don't care about it.  We are different.

If we weren't different, my post-count would be even higher!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:38:56 PM
oh you hiding  here ?

what is the consensus among scholars of all schools ?  what do all the schools of islam teach Muslims about the sura  ? what do the hundred of millions of Muslims believe the sura says about jews and Christians

hundreds of Muslims  recite surat al fatiha  17 times  a day . when they recite it what do they believe it says about jews and christians ?

what  does wikipedia say about that ?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:36:24 PM
If we weren't different, my post-count would be even higher!
And mine.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:38:56 PM
oh you hiding  here ?

what is the consensus among scholars of all schools ?  what do all the schools of islam teach Muslims about the sura  ? what do the hundred of millions of Muslims believe the sura says about jews and Christians

hundreds of Muslims  recite surat al fatiha  17 times  a day . when they recite it what do they believe it says about jews and christians ?

what  does wikipedia say about that ?

But I have never been a Muslim.  You were ... what did you believe it says?  A Jewish son once asked why Adonai makes so many Gentiles ... the father replies, because Hell isn't full yet.  Is that what you teach your children?  Thank G-d my daughter takes after the good her parents have given her, and not the bad.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
barouch come back

do or do not Muslims  and do or do not scholars of islam of all schools teach muslims that the verse in surat al fatiha that says " those who earn Thine anger” are the Jews, and the verse that says  “those who go astray” are the Christians.?

answer the  question Barouch

you need to stop bsing .
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:51:53 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
barouch come back

do or do not Muslims  and do or do not scholars of islam of all schools teach muslims that the verse in surat al fatiha that says " those who earn Thine anger” are the Jews, and the verse that says  “those who go astray” are the Christians.?

answer the  question Barouch

you need to stop bsing .

Those who go astray ... are fellow Muslims, who misunderstand Din.  They think Din only falls on someone else, not on their own heads.  Arabs have a hard time with humility.  So Allah has humiliated them.  I think a hadith has Muhammad himself saying the biggest problem with Islam is backsliding Arabs.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:43:22 PM
But I have never been a Muslim.  You were ... what did you believe it says?  A Jewish son once asked why Adonai makes so many Gentiles ... the father replies, because Hell isn't full yet.  Is that what you teach your children?  Thank G-d my daughter takes after the good her parents have given her, and not the bad.

Guilty, guilty, guilty.  I've gone and done it again.  Looked at an avatar and made assumptions.  ARGH!  I keep thinking mine says something but not everything and fail to extend the understanding.

Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 02:52:21 PM
Guilty, guilty, guilty.  I've gone and done it again.  Looked at an avatar and made assumptions.  ARGH!  I keep thinking mine says something but not everything and fail to extend the understanding.

You are forgiven my son ... now go and do 5 hail Darwins ;-)  - Father Baruch
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:58:25 PM
don't talk to me about my being a  muslim and its my say . you said you are an expert in islam . that means you speak for all. that means what you say is expert opinion . 


those who earn Thine anger” are the Jews, and “those who go astray” are the Christians.

is that what Muslims believe  the  sura says and is that what their  scholars  believe  and tell them the sura says ?

you have been coming in my post talking  all kind of nonesense . then you took it upon  yourself to talk about all christians .do you aslo speak fro all christians

.

Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
You are forgiven my son ... now go and do 5 hail Darwins ;-)  - Father Baruch

Hail Darwin, Hail Darwin, Hail Darwin, Hail Darwin...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 03:02:42 PM
I am an expert at some things, but not as expert about Islam as Pr126.  But the details don't bother me, I only care to gnaw the meat close to the bone.

If I know anything ... rather than pretend, it is because I am close to the Living G-d.  This is not a good condition to be in however.  How close I am, is between me and G-d.  Same for you.  Heretics can be closer to G-d than orthodox, and atheists can be closer to G-d than believers.  Believe it or not!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:05:05 PM
Aw, RIP Jerry Lewis!

Hey Lady...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: aitm on August 20, 2017, 03:05:15 PM
why can' we have more pictures of kitties and puppy-dogs?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: aitm on August 20, 2017, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:05:05 PM
Aw, RIP Jerry Lewis!

Hey Lady...
I adored Jerry Lewis. I really did.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 03:10:06 PM
See ... it is better to laugh than cry.  G-d speed Jerry Lewis ;-)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 03:10:06 PM
See ... it is better to laugh than cry.  G-d speed Jerry Lewis ;-)
And its better to die than just fade away...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 03:30:48 PM
@Cavebear, whats the odds of that happening ?

how have been?

do you remember the song ?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:08:33 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 03:30:48 PM
@Cavebear, whats the odds of that happening ?

how have been?

do you remember the song ?

I quoted the song, right?  My fade away will be when I'm not here or someplace like it, arguing with someone like you because it won't be necessary... LOL!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:15:46 PM
I'm trying to remember it myself


what r u doing here ?

wait ..something about  imagination  aah can't think ..what comes next

does that help ?can you
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:15:46 PM
I'm trying to remember it myself


what r u doing here ?

wait ..something about  imagination  aah can't think ..what comes next

does that help ?can you

Bad day Ibn, to put your hand in the meat grinder ...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
what's it to you ?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:15:46 PM
I'm trying to remember it myself


what r u doing here ?

wait ..something about  imagination  aah can't think ..what comes next

does that help ?can you

I hope it becomes an earworm...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:20:43 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
what's it to you ?

I don't like to see unnecessary amputations ... old men sparring ... like getting in the middle of two Zen masters, playing Dharma War.  Go back to your rice bowl and study your koan.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:23:47 PM
touchy , aren't we old man?

so she is zen master too. both nuts ?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:20:43 PM
I don't like to see unnecessary amputations ... old men sparring ... like getting in the middle of two Zen masters, playing Dharma War.  Go back to your rice bowl and study your koan.

Koan?  Is that anything like Sub Hunt?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:23:47 PM
touchy , aren't we old man?

so she is zen master too. both nuts ?

Cave and I now both realize we are Enlightened ... we have to outshine each other ;-))
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:27:52 PM
barouch tashkhbata fi shakhat al khota
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:27:52 PM
barouch tashkhbata fi shakhat al khota

I am not a slave, and you don't work for Master Card.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:30:09 PM
you picked up on the zoo ? right?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 04:31:49 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:27:11 PM
Cave and I now both realize we are Enlightened ... we have to outshine each other ;-))

I can only cast a reflection of the 5 primary colors...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:30:09 PM
you picked up on the zoo ? right?

That isn't how Google Translate says it "Lose your credit card fee" ... must be something lost in the translation ... but that is normal ;-)  Or maybe your dialect isn't MSA.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
barouch . i think you should  think more in terms  of  depends .... lest your posts exit from their real   place and stink the place
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
barouch . i think you should  think more in terms  of  depends .... lest your posts exit from their real   place and stink the place

Don't worry, the other Zen master has cut the cat in two and retired for his long Winter nap.  And I have business to do.  The floor is yours.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 04:49:16 PM
so you're humar barocuh?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 20, 2017, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
Barouch what you find as fault or not is irrelevant .you do not  speak for Islam or Muslims
.
what is the consensus among scholars of all schools . what do all the schools of islam teach Muslims about the sura  ? what do Muslims believe the sura says about jews and Christians

what does wikipedia whom you cited often as your source says about the sura  regarding what Muslims  believe it says about jews and christians  ? .

surely and expert in islam like you can tell me
What difference does it make?  Consensus--that's it??  So, if all the experts about Bugs Bunny come together and come to a consensus of who and what Bugs is makes it so?  God has to have a consensus?  It seems to me that a consensus about Bugs Bunny and god is the same; meaningless for the real world.  Why?  Because both are fictions.  And so a consensus is reached about a fiction.  So what?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Sorginak on August 20, 2017, 06:13:45 PM
The word "reform" in this OP reminds me of a signature I use on another site.

"Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." -RGI
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 06:35:13 PM
@Mike. consensus means sharia . refer to my sharia post . its a source of sharia .it establishes sharia

pay attention. work on it . one day you might get it and cease from wasting peoples' time .


good luck


Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 20, 2017, 06:55:26 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 06:35:13 PM
@Mike. consensus means sharia . refer to my sharia post . its a source of sharia .it establishes sharia

pay attention. work on it . one day you might get it and cease from wasting peoples' time .


good luck
Nope--it's what I do--waste time.  Your's if I can--but I can only if you go along with it.

But, Ibn, get you head out of the sand (or wherever it is) and understand you are on an atheist site.  Atheists all understand--and know--that your god (Allah or God--guess you can't make up your mind) is a fiction.  There are no god(s).  Wake up Ibn.  We don't really give a shit what consensus believers reach--that consensus is still a fiction.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 20, 2017, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 06:07:30 AM
Ibn is a troll...
...and a clumsy one.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 20, 2017, 06:10:53 PM
What difference does it make?  Consensus--that's it??  So, if all the experts about Bugs Bunny come together and come to a consensus of who and what Bugs is makes it so?  God has to have a consensus?  It seems to me that a consensus about Bugs Bunny and god is the same; meaningless for the real world.  Why?  Because both are fictions.  And so a consensus is reached about a fiction.  So what?

Bugs Bunny and God may both be fictions, but I don't consider them to be the same. Bugs Bunny is a fiction intended to make people laugh and have fun, but God is a fiction intended to control people and stifle free thought - to rob them of any true spirituality.

That's a pretty big difference, IMO.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 20, 2017, 06:35:13 PM
@Mike. consensus means sharia . refer to my sharia post . its a source of sharia .it establishes sharia

pay attention. work on it . one day you might get it and cease from wasting peoples' time .


good luck


Why must you be so arrogant, and talk to the people here as if they're children who need your guidance or instruction?

I suppose it helps you to feel more important, huh?


In other words:


fuck you, punk!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mike Cl on August 21, 2017, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
Bugs Bunny and God may both be fictions, but I don't consider them to be the same. Bugs Bunny is a fiction intended to make people laugh and have fun, but God is a fiction intended to control people and stifle free thought - to rob them of any true spirituality.

That's a pretty big difference, IMO.
In my opinion, as well.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on August 25, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
Title talks about atheism, OP talks about Islam. I'm confused.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 12:57:14 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 25, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
Title talks about atheism, OP talks about Islam. I'm confused.

Time to freeze this string as well.  It has gone astray, and so has Ibn.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
Doesn't "Ibn" mean "son of"? Like "bar" in Hebrew? Like "Bar Abbas" means "son of the Father."
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 25, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
Doesn't "Ibn" mean "son of"? Like "bar" in Hebrew? Like "Bar Abbas" means "son of the Father."

Also as in "I been" making random posts.  Ben = Hebrew, Bar = Aramaic, Ibn = Arabic ... all Semitic languages.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Oh well, I was close - but no cigar!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Sorginak on August 25, 2017, 08:33:42 PM
He thinks he can reform us atheists by non-stop posting about Islam.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2017, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 25, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Oh well, I was close - but no cigar!

Adding ... my own middle name would work out to Ben Elijah in Hebrew.  But Ben isn't short for Benjamin.  That would have been the first name of my son, if I had one.  Had only a daughter.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 02:20:28 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
Why must you be so arrogant, and talk to the people here as if they're children who need your guidance or instruction?

I suppose it helps you to feel more important, huh?


In other words:


fuck you, punk!

There are better ways to put that.  Like, "perhaps your brain is not connecting to your mind very well today". 
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Munch on August 26, 2017, 03:20:11 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 21, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
Why must you be so arrogant, and talk to the people here as if they're children who need your guidance or instruction?

I suppose it helps you to feel more important, huh?


In other words:


fuck you, punk!

Well he can't even be bothered to spell peoples names right, or figured out how to copy/paste them, so guessing his preacher taught him everything he knows (as in very little outside of the quran)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 07:08:21 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
Don't worry, the other Zen master has cut the cat in two and retired for his long Winter nap.  And I have business to do.  The floor is yours.

Interestingly, while I can't translate this exchange, I can't help but think it involves open defecation and who cleans it up.  Am I on the right track?  Just mildly curious...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 07:08:21 AM
Interestingly, while I can't translate this exchange, I can't help but think it involves open defecation and who cleans it up.  Am I on the right track?  Just mildly curious...

You leave bear turds periodically.  But I don't mind, because I don't clean them up ;-)  Digital turds don't smell.  BTW - I really enjoyed our exchange that day, the very best "happening" between up.  Don't knock it.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: SGOS on August 26, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 25, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
Title talks about atheism, OP talks about Islam. I'm confused.
It's a classic bait and switch.  The title was an interesting subject, if only to discuss how and why atheism could  reform.  If the title was "Why Atheists should be Muslims," few people would have read the first post.  I know I wouldn't.

He can't settle for atheism just going away.  He wants to reform atheists.  Once that's out of the way, he can go reform Christians.  Apparently, it's not that big of a deal to his god, so he is a one man Jihad.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 26, 2017, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 02:20:28 AM
There are better ways to put that.  Like, "perhaps your brain is not connecting to your mind very well today". 
Yeah, but he put me in a bad mood with his arrogant assumption that we need or want his bombastic drivel.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
You leave bear turds periodically.  But I don't mind, because I don't clean them up ;-)  Digital turds don't smell.  BTW - I really enjoyed our exchange that day, the very best "happening" between up.  Don't knock it.

It's like beer.  "Its in the water, son, that's why it's yellow"!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 26, 2017, 03:27:02 PM
Yeah, but he put me in a bad mood with his arrogant assumption that we need or want his bombastic drivel.

Well, let's gang up on him and be nice.  Maybe it will change his whole day.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Ibn Khaldun on August 27, 2017, 03:58:57 AM
Okay okay , if you insist . but frankly you do not make sense. You want me back , but when I come back and talk to you , you get upset and you tell me to go away .you say fuck you and asshole to me. You make me feel as though I hurt you . I don’t like to do that . I love people . people often misunderstand me . they think I don’t like people. That’s not true. I do. People are good  to have . That’s why I always say to you ,good , very good .

@Unbeliever, come here . sit. you’re wrong about me . I don’t indulge myself in arrogance . the problem is with you and probably rooted in your childhood and usually have sexuality issues wrapped up in it. . when I said to mike the simpleton not to waste people time , it was to do with the two monkey sites . . So far the two monkey sites have returned over 7000 callers and 8 % hits .unfortunately  looks like the two monkey sites have reached the ceiling . that means what remains is  shit that crossed over to   other social media . its over ..

I Thinking I want you  is irrelevant.  I do not waste time like you . That’s not what I do , who I’m. . you’re the downtrodden masses , I’m not . the issue, ever since those greedy no good ISIS came and the market has taken a nose dive. So I entertain myself with chump change .not that I need it. I’m a hobbyist .

You’re  propelled by fear . its in you. That is something useful and makes things easier.  .there is no “we” unibeliver “. There  is only you and the shit on the table and the electric machine. Usually 50 questions to do with your family tree. Just establishing the  diseases. You’re not some VIP that someone will make inquires about. So its only you and  those two items and the person  asking the question who is usually was high up on the battle order list. After something like 250 days they are evaluated . certain ones are requested to join the regime security apparatus. And there is no  need to confirm or debate your questions .  your  answers will be  okay because you have fear in you which means you won’t lie .and then also  before you were ushered in  you were in  the waiting room , a not so  useful person, someone with one of those STDs was brought in and his bones were cracked with wood clubs, 2 by 3 wood clubs , for you to see and observe. . that’s all really that’s needed .  .

Before ISIS a liver could fetch as much as one hundred thousand  in US dollars .Kidneys as high 5 thousand each. But because of ISIS , shit has flooded the Turkish market . Nomads with Toyota pick up trucks are furious. The organs  business is in shambles .

You’re a member of the downtrodden and  you will die as one .what the system  does  for you is either  government assistance worth a few hundred bucks per month or working slave wages. And they get this internet shit for you . But know this  unibeliver, to me you’re not useless matter ,  you could be worth much more provided you do not have diseases. Or to be more accurate you will be once the market stabilizes. you are just gonna have to wait.

Hey maybe if your sites garner heavier traffic .maybe.  I doubt it though. My predictions are seldom wrong.

you’re my beloved atheist. I love you all dearly your  outside and your  inside . inside you because what’s inside you help us keep people of worth to humankind alive . belivering it ,  you do participate positively  in the welfare of mankind.  your  value rises everyday as hepatitis spreading like fire. Don’t ever feel small. You’re not .  Diseases and transplant has made you of value .. .

Cavebear, come here .come here baby.  I want to talk to you. You’re such an old  ghanamayha you know that? Do you still love me ?  hey that exotic nose , you didn’t pick up on that .  you do not pay attention. Always blocking. If you like I could come and get you. If you want me to that is. You know I will do anything for you. Change my day for you , only for you . you know I would .

@ Barouch. Two uncivilized yemini jews say hi to you. They call your type  yankee jew jew . because one of your numbers , from your part of the  world looks down on them and shockingly says to them .. ..no no you ain’t nothing but Ayrabs. Ayrabs!  Imagine. Outrageous  . But then again Yanhkee jew jew is there because he is the ultimate tracker hound dog.hey I try not to get in the middle. And he is right , one of them uncivilized Yemeni jew stole my grilled bacon egg and cheese sandwich and ate it and then looks at me and has this stupid  grin like its some joke. What can I do? My student you know .naughty girl. But she did alert me you’re still talking about me. So I came back to reassure you and remove any ill feelings I might have accidently created in you towards me .I want to  put you all at ease. And the naughty wild thing ,I’m just gonna have to try to be a better teacher. And you know what I love the most about the US , it is that you can easily lead two three four lifes at the once. Your friendly three bed room house neighbor and this and that . 

Okay  all you non  belivered , I have to say good buy . know I love you , I always have and always will.  if you need bread go to the baker, if you need meat go to the butcher , if you need love come to me but make sure you got the money. I always look disgusted and angry and  I frown . you give me the money then I smile and do a happy face and  I say to ted Bundy or whoever happens to be waiting on   the negotiating table  go bring our friend something to drink.no no you must have something . we are honored by your visit .  you’re good person .  we will  have a toast .

@ atim the moderator. Listen ya Ibn al mutnaka , kus okhat allah bitaak  ya ibn al gahba . In English that means no one bans me or locks my posts I choose when to get banned and when my posts should be locked. Normally for money reason that follows it  . But since you’re penniless shit , do not flatter yourself  . I used you in as much as you can be used . that’s  why you exist . and so for now kussummack and um ummack . not you barouch, him.I'm  talking to  him and not you. Who cares.

with much love and admiration. Stay safe. wtach out now take care now .
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on August 27, 2017, 06:00:06 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 05:07:14 AM
The human story is mostly tragedy, not much comedy ;-(

Depends on your perspective.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2017, 07:03:55 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 27, 2017, 06:00:06 AM
Depends on your perspective.

If you are a comfortable middle class person, still in the Matrix, still complacent as your 1990s world crumbles all around you .. thing might seem comic, to me.  Don't be a clown unless you want to be.  The reality for 99% of the world is that daily life is no joke.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2017, 07:11:14 AM
Ibn ... the most common fight among Jews is the accusation "you are not a real Jew" ... been going on for 2,500 years, ever since the Shah of Persia sent his court Jew, Ezra, from Babylon to Jerusalem ... to establish an ethnically segregated province (part of the Shah's policy all over).  The Shah didn't believe in race mixing.  But it did happen, before the Babylonian Exile, and later, outside of Judah ... in Egypt and Yemen.  So Samaritans aren't counted as Jewish, even though they are.  Falasha aren't counted as Jewish, even though they are ... right down to today.  And Jews in Europe ... they are almost all of mixed race (no, not Kuzari, that is a minority in Central Asia and ... Yemen).  Muslim Araba/Palestinians picked up on anti-Semitism in Europe, and inter-Jewish fighting, to enter a dispute that should have ended 2,000 years ago.  Yes, Jews in Yemen are Jewish, farther back than many European Jews.

Adding ... your dialog isn't proper dialog ... are you an ignorant fellahin?  This is what everyone here notices.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on August 27, 2017, 08:33:26 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2017, 07:03:55 AM
If you are a comfortable middle class person, still in the Matrix, still complacent as your 1990s world crumbles all around you .. thing might seem comic, to me.  Don't be a clown unless you want to be.  The reality for 99% of the world is that daily life is no joke.

I find The entire human condition, and by extension existance itself, quite absurd.
Just because something is ripe for mockery, doesn't mean it is any less tragic, don't get me wrong.
Rather it is both at once. And for instance our self-destructive nature and tendency to war and cruelty is horrible. But from an outside point of view, isn't it silly and ridiculous?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: SGOS on August 27, 2017, 09:16:58 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 27, 2017, 08:33:26 AM
I find The entire human condition, and by extension existance itself, quite absurd.
Just because something is ripe for mockery, doesn't mean it is any less tragic, don't get me wrong.
Rather it is both at once. And for instance our self-destructive nature and tendency to war and cruelty is horrible. But from an outside point of view, isn't it silly and ridiculous?
Donald Trump.  We can be horrified by his racism and provocative baiting of North Korea, but we all laugh when Saturday Night takes these issues and shows how silly they are.  The common reaction to the absurd is laughter.  Building a wall to keep the Mexicans out.  Those who take absurdity seriously are suspect.  And yes, there can be a danger in all this too.  Trump is a laugh a minute, but it's also scary if you consider he might take himself seriously.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 27, 2017, 08:33:26 AM
I find The entire human condition, and by extension existance itself, quite absurd.
Just because something is ripe for mockery, doesn't mean it is any less tragic, don't get me wrong.
Rather it is both at once. And for instance our self-destructive nature and tendency to war and cruelty is horrible. But from an outside point of view, isn't it silly and ridiculous?

My grief at tragedy dampens my mirth at foolishness.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 27, 2017, 05:19:43 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 05:07:14 AM
The human story is mostly tragedy, not much comedy ;-(

Surely you've seen this quote before?

"The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel."
Horace Walpole Letter to Anne, Countess of Ossory, (16 August 1776)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2017, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 27, 2017, 05:19:43 PM
Surely you've seen this quote before?

"The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel."
Horace Walpole Letter to Anne, Countess of Ossory, (16 August 1776)

Nope, missed that, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Unbeliever on August 28, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
I was sure you'd tell me not to call you Shirley!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:22:28 AM
Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on August 27, 2017, 03:58:57 AM
with much love and admiration. Stay safe. wtach out now take care now .

Try shorter posts.  I won't read your rambling long ones.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: St Truth on October 04, 2017, 09:13:32 PM
Ibn, yes next time try a shorter post. Try this. It's in your own language. It's what you should hang above the door or your house and the entrance to all mosques. It's something you should recite 5 times a day and shouted out from the minarets of your mosques.

اÙ,,Ù,,Ù‡ خنزير
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 09:18:25 PM
Quote from: St Truth on October 04, 2017, 09:13:32 PM
Ibn, yes next time try a shorter post. Try this. It's in your own language. It's what you should hang above the door or your house and the entrance to all mosques. It's something you should recite 5 times a day and shouted out from the minarets of your mosques.

اÙ,,Ù,,Ù‡ خنزير

It was stuff like this that incited the Great India Mutiny ;-(
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: St Truth on October 04, 2017, 09:24:39 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 09:18:25 PM
It was stuff like this that incited the Great India Mutiny ;-(

Rubbish. It's this that caused the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo. Muslims need to see that blasphemy is the norm. If they can't deal with it, they can always blow themselves up in the desert. The twats.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 04, 2017, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: St Truth on October 04, 2017, 09:24:39 PM
Rubbish. It's this that caused the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo. Muslims need to see that blasphemy is the norm. If they can't deal with it, they can always blow themselves up in the desert. The twats.

I see you need to sigh up with the MoD when you are of age.  Spred a little civilization among the natives.  You would like this guy ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Mitchell

You are not much like this guy ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Mackintosh-Smith

Who wrote the BBC show on Ibn Battuta that I posted earlier.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 04:35:17 AM
I prefer اÙ,,Ù,,Ù‡ خنزير
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 04:35:17 AM
I prefer اÙ,,Ù,,Ù‡ خنزير

And you would have made a good water boy for the Raj, Gunga Din.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 08, 2017, 05:31:13 PM
And you would have made a good water boy for the Raj, Gunga Din.

Not being a hindu, I cannot agree with your statement.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 09, 2017, 09:55:07 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 08, 2017, 11:19:55 PM
Not being a hindu, I cannot agree with your statement.

Not about Hinduism, but your Kipling-esque imperialism.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 05:41:36 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 09, 2017, 09:55:07 AM
Not about Hinduism, but your Kipling-esque imperialism.

Sorry, I wasn't part of the British Empire.  The last thing I am is Imprerialist  Do you ever get tired of being wrong so often, or does it just bounce off you like a rubber ducky?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:00:15 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 05:41:36 AM
Sorry, I wasn't part of the British Empire.  The last thing I am is Imprerialist  Do you ever get tired of being wrong so often, or does it just bounce off you like a rubber ducky?

If you quack like Queen Victoria ...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:00:15 AM
If you quack like Queen Victoria ...

Then congrats, you are a duck and you are..  Will you begin to make sense some day?  Or is that just beyond you ability?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:56:47 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
Then congrats, you are a duck and you are..  Will you begin to make sense some day?  Or is that just beyond you ability?

The British don't have cents, they have pennies.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 05:47:57 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 07:56:47 PM
The British don't have cents, they have pennies.

And I mentioned "cents" when?  Isn't it a sin in your belief structure to deliberately lie?  Or at least an ethical problem?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 05:47:57 AM
And I mentioned "cents" when?  Isn't it a sin in your belief structure to deliberately lie?  Or at least an ethical problem?

Absolutely not .. my belief structure has no sin ... other than it is a sin to be a Gentile.  Cents = sense.  Gotta explain the joke ...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 10:19:40 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 06:59:24 AM
Absolutely not .. my belief structure has no sin ... other than it is a sin to be a Gentile.  Cents = sense.  Gotta explain the joke ...

Your jokes fall on the floor.  Please spare us new ones...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 10:19:40 AM
Your jokes fall on the floor.  Please spare us new ones...

I got a million of them ... yes, Virginia, there is a Hell, and there is no Santa Claus ...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 05:24:07 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 06:56:05 PM
I got a million of them ... yes, Virginia, there is a Hell, and there is no Santa Claus ...

So, what is "hell" to you (in the afterlife)?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:04:57 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 05:47:57 AM
And I mentioned "cents" when?  Isn't it a sin in your belief structure to deliberately lie?  Or at least an ethical problem?

We wrote the Bible, and it is all lies.  Draw your own conclusions ;-)
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:06:28 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 05:24:07 AM
So, what is "hell" to you (in the afterlife)?

This is the afterlife.  If you like it, you are in Heaven, if you don't like it, you are in Hell.  Heaven/Hell is a reaction to circumstances, like all other value judgements.  It isn't a location per se, because Heaven/Hell is where "you" are.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:07:43 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:04:57 AM
We wrote the Bible, and it is all lies.  Draw your own conclusions ;-)

Gee, I thought *I* was on "the bible is all lies" side from the start.  Welcome aboard the bus...
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:09:47 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:06:28 AM
This is the afterlife.  If you like it, you are in Heaven, if you don't like it, you are in Hell.  Heaven/Hell is a reaction to circumstances, like all other value judgements.  It isn't a location per se, because Heaven/Hell is where "you" are.

I know most theists won't agree with you on that.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:20:37 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:09:47 AM
I know most theists won't agree with you on that.

Most people are idiots, including most theists.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:21:33 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:07:43 AM
Gee, I thought *I* was on "the bible is all lies" side from the start.  Welcome aboard the bus...

You don't know me well, in spite of your many posts.  Don't listen well?
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:29:22 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 07:21:33 AM
You don't know me well, in spite of your many posts.  Don't listen well?

On the contrary.  You keep justifying religious beliefs.  I've learned you can't hide it.

But it could also be because you like to offer inane responses to serious posts...  Only you can know that.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 10:14:51 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 07:29:22 AM
On the contrary.  You keep justifying religious beliefs.  I've learned you can't hide it.

But it could also be because you like to offer inane responses to serious posts...  Only you can know that.

I am the only serious poster here ;-)  And yes, I now myself, I am like Descartes.  D'accorde?

I have no need to justify my beliefs.  I don't have any.  My hand on my arm that types this, isn't a belief system, it is a fact.  And I don't hide facts.  I do point out the complete Matrix views of others though.  They think they are free of the Matrix, but they aren't even close.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 04:20:25 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 10:14:51 PM
I am the only serious poster here ;-)  And yes, I now myself, I am like Descartes.  D'accorde?

I have no need to justify my beliefs.  I don't have any.  My hand on my arm that types this, isn't a belief system, it is a fact.  And I don't hide facts.  I do point out the complete Matrix views of others though.  They think they are free of the Matrix, but they aren't even close.

I am sorry to tell you this, but you are one of the least serious posters here.  Your posts are mostly bad jokes, sarcasm, and indirection.  You add almost nothing to the factual discussions, and are many ignore lists.  I think you should reconsider your status here.  You are more "tolerated" than respected.

I have tried to engage you at various times in various ways.  None have been successful.  I think I may just give up the attempt.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2017, 07:00:55 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 04:20:25 AM
I am sorry to tell you this, but you are one of the least serious posters here.  Your posts are mostly bad jokes, sarcasm, and indirection.  You add almost nothing to the factual discussions, and are many ignore lists.  I think you should reconsider your status here.  You are more "tolerated" than respected.

I have tried to engage you at various times in various ways.  None have been successful.  I think I may just give up the attempt.

The discussions in the baking section, are factual.  Not the ones in the religion section or ideology section (politics).  Sometimes the baking section posts even have pictures of the results.  But I don't cook.  You engage ... by trying to convert me to your position.  You are an Evangelical.  You would have me deny my hand that is typing this ... in favor of an ancient nihilism, a meme, that you have, but deny having.  And I am not concerned about status ... I am not Donald Trump ;-)  On occasion, you or other posters, actually say something real, the real you, not the poser that is projected out onto the Internet.  But this is the real me, always has been.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 07:18:25 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2017, 07:00:55 AM
The discussions in the baking section, are factual.  Not the ones in the religion section or ideology section (politics).  Sometimes the baking section posts even have pictures of the results.  But I don't cook.  You engage ... by trying to convert me to your position.  You are an Evangelical.  You would have me deny my hand that is typing this ... in favor of an ancient nihilism, a meme, that you have, but deny having.  And I am not concerned about status ... I am not Donald Trump ;-)  On occasion, you or other posters, actually say something real, the real you, not the poser that is projected out onto the Internet.  But this is the real me, always has been.

Evangical is about spreading belief systems.  The Saturday or Sunday door-bangers are evangical  I don't chose to engage them, they invade MY space.

Here, we are discussing, and that is a very big difference.  Both you and I can leave this forum at any time. 
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2017, 07:26:46 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 07:18:25 AM
Evangical is about spreading belief systems.  The Saturday or Sunday door-bangers are evangical  I don't chose to engage them, they invade MY space.

Here, we are discussing, and that is a very big difference.  Both you and I can leave this forum at any time.

And you can kick the JWs off your porch anytime.  And yes, we discuss, we don't argue.  Arguing gets nobody anywhere ... once egos are engaged.  You spread the belief system of Tomorrowland.  And I liked that Disney movie BTW.
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 07:39:29 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2017, 07:26:46 AM
And you can kick the JWs off your porch anytime.  And yes, we discuss, we don't argue.  Arguing gets nobody anywhere ... once egos are engaged.  You spread the belief system of Tomorrowland.  And I liked that Disney movie BTW.

Tomrrowland never comes.  It is always "just in the future".
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Mahmoude on November 22, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
People in general should thank atheism as it makes them think and ponder about their beliefs and values!
Title: Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
Post by: Cavebear on November 26, 2017, 06:44:41 AM
Quote from: Mahmoude on November 22, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
People in general should thank atheism as it makes them think and ponder about their beliefs and values!

Indeed, what would a belief be without some opposition?