http://www.pewforum.org/2017/07/26/political-and-social-views/pf_2017-06-26_muslimamericans-04new-06/
With roughly the same level of acceptance of the LGBT+ community as Protestants and Baby Bomers and Older at 52%, American Muslims fall pretty much right on the norm for religious American's tolerance of the community. Mainline Protestants and Catholics are the only two Christian sects more accepting of them, with Catholics being a surprising 66% approval. Less Surprising, unaffiliated with a church poll in at an 80% acceptance rate.
Age wise, there is a 20 point spread between millennials (74%) and Baby Boomers and Older (54%), and for Muslims (and I would assume the general population as well) a large spread between college educated (63%) and some or none higher education (48%).
Europe may be different, but all the numbers have been consistent; Muslims in the United States are not a threat (that distinction goes to American Evangelicals who actually have numbers and socio-political power) and Millennials are much more tolerant and civilized than their predecessors (on average).
But but but Focks News and Brightblart tell me ALL Mooslims are auntie-ghey and want to throw gheys off rooves!
#NOTALLMUSLIMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWdansF5sLY
Charles Manson, Ted Bundy and Jeffery Dahmer brutally murdered multiple people.
Well look at that... they're all white, male and American.
Let's ban ALL white American men!!!! Because we all know, if a handful of members of a group are heinous criminals, then ALL members of that group are heinous criminals.
(Clue: Hillary Clinton was laughing at the lameness of Trump's fallacious and bigoted argument.)
Tu quoque much? Will it make Islam look any better?
None of those murders were done to please Allah.
BTW, the Sharia law (Islamic fiqh) does prescribe death to gays. And apostates. And those criticizing Islam and Muhammad.
I'm surprised the numbers are that high considering how many still believe that death is a justifiable punishment for apostates, but they're still playing catch up to the non-religious.
I've read that Pope Francis believes Catholics should apologize to the LGBT community which I thought was pretty refreshing. I still think the RCC is BS, but the new pope seems to show more compassion than his peers.
Quote from: Atheon on August 02, 2017, 10:58:16 AM
But but but Focks News and Brightblart tell me ALL Mooslims are auntie-ghey and want to throw gheys off rooves!
Convert, Infidel ... or they will throw you off a roof, if they are in power. So would the Pope, if he had power.
Quote from: Atheon on August 02, 2017, 11:35:49 AM
Charles Manson, Ted Bundy and Jeffery Dahmer brutally murdered multiple people.
Well look at that... they're all white, male and American.
Let's ban ALL white American men!!!! Because we all know, if a handful of members of a group are heinous criminals, then ALL members of that group are heinous criminals.
(Clue: Hillary Clinton was laughing at the lameness of Trump's fallacious and bigoted argument.)
You may think that is satire, but SJWs don't.
Not sure I believe a lot of these types of studies because if the pope and the church are so welcoming, why won't they marry gay couples in their churches? Why do they still suggest that if people are living in sin (any type of sexual relationship outside of a marriage between a man and woman) they should avoid communion? Etc etc etc ...
What I take from this is that maybe most people think these religious ideas are stupid and don't follow them. That's usually how it all begins...one's path out of religion. ;-)
Quote from: Deidre32 on August 02, 2017, 02:25:56 PM
Not sure I believe a lot of these types of studies because if the pope and the church are so welcoming, why won't they marry gay couples in their churches? Why do they still suggest that if people are living in sin (any type of sexual relationship outside of a marriage between a man and woman) they should avoid communion? Etc etc etc ...
What I take from this is that maybe most people think these religious ideas are stupid and don't follow them. That's usually how it all begins...one's path out of religion. ;-)
It's also possible that those studied felt social pressure to respond a certain way. They don't want the researchers to think badly of them. Ideally, participants will always respond honestly, but that doesn't always happen, especially when it comes to sensitive topics.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 02, 2017, 02:36:45 PM
It's also possible that those studied felt social pressure to respond a certain way. They don't want the researchers to think badly of them. Ideally, participants will always respond honestly, but that doesn't always happen, especially when it comes to sensitive topics.
So true!
It is a fundamental position of Catholic theology, and a weakness, that they can never admit to being wrong.
Quote from: Baruch on August 02, 2017, 07:19:21 PM
It is a fundamental position of Catholic theology, and a weakness, that they can never admit to being wrong.
Well, that goes for pretty much any devout religious person. Its only people with an open mind that questions their own teachings
Quote from: Deidre32 on August 02, 2017, 12:46:18 PM
I've read that Pope Francis believes Catholics should apologize to the LGBT community which I thought was pretty refreshing. I still think the RCC is BS, but the new pope seems to show more compassion than his peers.
Yeah, he does. And it's great PR. But every time he says something somewhat progressive, the tail end of that message is always that Vatican policies have not changed. People who haven't read that last part are more thrilled than those who read it in its entirety. Until I see substantive change, I consider it to only be PR.
Quote from: pr126 on August 02, 2017, 11:54:07 AM
Tu quoque much? Will it make Islam look any better?
None of those murders were done to please Allah.
BTW, the Sharia law (Islamic fiqh) does prescribe death to gays. And apostates. And those criticizing Islam and Muhammad.
All the mayhem is done is Allah's Name" They are insane. So are all theists. Christians kill unbelievers, Hindus kill unbelievers, all theists kill unbelievers.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 05, 2017, 10:39:20 PM
Yeah, he does. And it's great PR. But every time he says something somewhat progressive, the tail end of that message is always that Vatican policies have not changed. People who haven't read that last part are more thrilled than those who read it in its entirety. Until I see substantive change, I consider it to only be PR.
He does seem pretty good at PR, even I brought into it, till I remembered ooooh wait, its still the catholic church.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 04:05:10 AM
All the mayhem is done is Allah's Name" They are insane. So are all theists. Christians kill unbelievers, Hindus kill unbelievers, all theists kill unbelievers.
Except for pacifist believers. Atheists kill theists .. except for the pacifist atheists. Are you pacifist? You worked for the government ... so no pacifist.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 05, 2017, 10:39:20 PM
Yeah, he does. And it's great PR. But every time he says something somewhat progressive, the tail end of that message is always that Vatican policies have not changed. People who haven't read that last part are more thrilled than those who read it in its entirety. Until I see substantive change, I consider it to only be PR.
It's the old "Bring the sinners into the fold. Their money is a good as everyone else's." But the eerie thing is that as tolerant as it sounds, it's still denies the sacred sacraments necessary to avoid an eternity of Hell fire. The Pope sounds all cute and cuddly but as the single human on earth with the only direct line to God, he's not helping: "Welcome to the church. We are glad to have you here. But remember, you're still fucked, and we will remind you of that whenever we can."
This brings to mind the prominent image in my memory of Jerry Falwell describing how those outside the flock would suffer an agony beyond description, while that bizarre beatific smile on his face betrayed a creepy satisfaction of what his minion, the Lord Jesus, has in store for those who fail to meet Falwell's personal approval.
(http://www.rantlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/o-JERRY-FALLWELL-facebook.jpg)(https://deaconjohn1987.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/360_pope_benedict_0523.jpg?w=551)
Quote from: SGOS on August 06, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
It's the old "Bring the sinners into the fold. Their money is a good as everyone else's." But the eerie thing is that as tolerant as it sounds, it's still denies the sacred sacraments necessary to avoid an eternity of Hell fire. The Pope sounds all cute and cuddly but as the single human on earth with the only direct line to God, he's not helping: "Welcome to the church. We are glad to have you here. But remember, you're still fucked, and we will remind you of that whenever we can."
This brings to mind the prominent image in my memory of Jerry Falwell describing how those outside the flock would suffer an agony beyond description, while that bizarre beatific smile on his face betrayed a creepy satisfaction of what his minion, the Lord Jesus, has in store for those who fail to meet Falwell's personal approval.
(http://www.rantlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/o-JERRY-FALLWELL-facebook.jpg)(https://deaconjohn1987.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/360_pope_benedict_0523.jpg?w=551)
Christians may act like they're worried about unbelievers, but they're secretly hoping to see the world burn when they're proven right. What an irony it would be if at the end of it all, it was the Christians who failed the test.
I've always sort of assumed that SOME christian idiot would take steps to bring us ALL to Judgement Day at some point. How could they resist? Trump might be the one...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 02:01:47 PM
I've always sort of assumed that SOME christian idiot would take steps to bring us ALL to Judgement Day at some point. How could they resist? Trump might be the one...
I don't know if Trump is a Christian or not, but he might bring about the end just to be a dick.
Quote from: SGOS on August 06, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
I don't know if Trump is a Christian or not, but he might bring about the end just to be a dick.
Or even from shear stupidity... Never underestimate stupidity. It can bring you to where even meanness dare not tread.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 05, 2017, 10:39:20 PM
Yeah, he does. And it's great PR. But every time he says something somewhat progressive, the tail end of that message is always that Vatican policies have not changed. People who haven't read that last part are more thrilled than those who read it in its entirety. Until I see substantive change, I consider it to only be PR.
Agree. And, it's further proof that religions are man made. How could a Pope change church doctrine when it was thought to be the "word of God?" That is why Catholics are angry, they are probably wondering how one man can change fundamental church beliefs. Maybe they'll realize that it's all bs and abandon it, instead of just thinking that this Pope is "wrong."
Quote from: Deidre32 on August 06, 2017, 03:44:38 PM
Agree. And, it's further proof that religions are man made. How could a Pope change church doctrine when it was thought to be the "word of God?" That is why Catholics are angry, they are probably wondering how one man can change fundamental church beliefs. Maybe they'll realize that it's all bs and abandon it, instead of just thinking that this Pope is "wrong."
Many American Catholics are irreligious for just that reason.
Quote from: SGOS on August 06, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
I don't know if Trump is a Christian or not, but he might bring about the end just to be a dick.
I'm pretty sure he is. Trump gets his "facts" from Faux News and Alex Jones, and his idiotic rhetoric reflects that perfectly. He's anti-immigration, against affordable healthcare, sees all Muslims as terrorists, blames Mexican illegal immigrants for economic problems and illegal drugs. He's exactly the sort of person to believe religious bullshit.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 07, 2017, 12:24:27 AM
I'm pretty sure he is. Trump gets his "facts" from Faux News and Alex Jones, and his idiotic rhetoric reflects that perfectly. He's anti-immigration, against affordable healthcare, sees all Muslims as terrorists, blames Mexican illegal immigrants for economic problems and illegal drugs. He's exactly the sort of person to believe religious bullshit.
Went from low info voter to low info leader. What could go wrong?
Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2017, 06:56:24 AM
Went from low info voter to low info leader. What could go wrong?
I don't think I will ever wash away from my brain that endorsement of Trump, "He tells it like it is." It's imprinted there like a ink smudge that will never go away. It's just a smudge, without shape, form, or meaning. God help me if it should surface at the moment of my death, ending my time on Earth with the final understanding that everything was just bullshit.
Quote from: SGOS on August 07, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
I don't think I will ever wash away from my brain that endorsement of Trump, "He tells it like it is." It's imprinted there like a ink smudge that will never go away. It's just a smudge, without shape, form, or meaning. God help me if it should surface at the moment of my death, ending my time on Earth with the final understanding that everything was just bullshit.
During the election, I kept hearing people say, "He's honest." I would reply, "It doesn't matter if he's honest if he's honestly stupid." But Trump voters are beyond that kind of logic. Although, now that he is in office, it's almost hilarious how stupidly honest he is. The White House staff would cover for him, giving the press this story, then he'd show up on live television, admit his fault as if it's no big deal, and throw his staff under the bus. He's his own worst enemy. Not that even hearing it from the horse's mouth is enough to convince his supporters.
Quote from: SGOS on August 07, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
I don't think I will ever wash away from my brain that endorsement of Trump, "He tells it like it is." It's imprinted there like a ink smudge that will never go away. It's just a smudge, without shape, form, or meaning. God help me if it should surface at the moment of my death, ending my time on Earth with the final understanding that everything was just bullshit.
"ending my time on Earth with the final understanding that everything was just bullshit" ... ditto. No, I don't endorse Trump, because I am unable to endorse humanity.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 07, 2017, 11:48:22 AM
During the election, I kept hearing people say, "He's honest." I would reply, "It doesn't matter if he's honest if he's honestly stupid." But Trump voters are beyond that kind of logic. Although, now that he is in office, it's almost hilarious how stupidly honest he is. The White House staff would cover for him, giving the press this story, then he'd show up on live television, admit his fault as if it's no big deal, and throw his staff under the bus. He's his own worst enemy. Not that even hearing it from the horse's mouth is enough to convince his supporters.
He did a "madness of King George" again today. Anybody taking bets how long Kelly will last? "you're fired!"
Doesn't matter if Hillary is liberal, if she is criminally liberal.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 06, 2017, 01:54:12 PM
Christians may act like they're worried about unbelievers, but they're secretly hoping to see the world burn when they're proven right. What an irony it would be if at the end of it all, it was the Christians who failed the test.
No question I have met many that really hope as many sinners get caught with their pants down as possible. Christians have failed miserably in representing Christ. Today's Christianity isn't the Christianity that shook the world in the beginning.
That said many Christian groups still do good work around the world, feeding the poor, providing medicine and clothes and other necessities to desperate people in some of the worst hell holes on the planet.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 07, 2017, 11:48:22 AM
During the election, I kept hearing people say, "He's honest." I would reply, "It doesn't matter if he's honest if he's honestly stupid." But Trump voters are beyond that kind of logic. Although, now that he is in office, it's almost hilarious how stupidly honest he is. The White House staff would cover for him, giving the press this story, then he'd show up on live television, admit his fault as if it's no big deal, and throw his staff under the bus. He's his own worst enemy. Not that even hearing it from the horse's mouth is enough to convince his supporters.
Yep, "honestly stupid" is not a real impressive resume'