As a liberal, I suppose I should relish the continual media stream of comical White House chaos, but in fact I'm starting to get bored with it. I don't bother keeping up with it, anymore. I just read the headlines, always at the top of my google home page, and then I scroll down to see if I can find something more interesting to read. Often times, I have to scroll an entire screen to get past all the Trump de doo. Is anyone else experiencing Trump fatigue? It's like having an unwanted guest in my house who won't leave.
I find the constant stream of blatant lies, lowbrow drama, and self-sabotage to be inadvertently hilarious, but then again I have an endlessly dark sense of humor. And although Trump may be the butt of the joke, America's future is the real punchline.
And even I'm getting Trump fatigue. On one hand, it's probably not healthy to hang on this lackwit's every tweet (I feel like I need to take a shower after watching Trump segments) but on the other hand, I worry that becoming inured to this 4-year digression from bad governance to Crazyville reflects an acceptance of the worst behavior I've ever seen in a President, and I've survived the W years. I worry that if and when Trump does something seriously heinous, half the country will be too apathetic to care and 30% will be calling his detractors fake news.
And if we tolerate Trump I, I guarantee you we'll get Trump II and Trump III.
The more he hobbles himself, rants like a toddler, and buries himself in his web of lies and sleaze, the better. The Republican Party's true nature is being made plain for all to see, and it will be hard for them to keep it from further tarnishing their already tarnished brand.
I am tired of crazy-man, but I keep watching. I keep hoping that today will be the day he goes too far and finally motivates Congress to fire him. Graham just said that firing Jeff Sessions is a redline for Trump. Firing Mueller would also get some of them pissed-off.
Now we have a new character MiniMe Scaramucci. Can't wait to see what SNL does with that.
The POTUS is always in the news no matter who's in office. The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented. The facts are the facts though, he isn't getting any major bills passed, his staff is in chaos and he is hugely polarizing figure. Sadly it wouldn't be much different if Hillary was in office I don't believe either candidate would be able to govern effectively.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "
Alexander Tyler, 1787
America is at number 7...
Quote from: fencerider on July 29, 2017, 12:51:32 AM
I am tired of crazy-man, but I keep watching. I keep hoping that today will be the day he goes too far and finally motivates Congress to fire him. Graham just said that firing Jeff Sessions is a redline for Trump. Firing Mueller would also get some of them pissed-off.
Now we have a new character MiniMe Scaramucci. Can't wait to see what SNL does with that.
I am looking forward to Trump surrounding Congress with tanks, like Yeltsin did with the Russian Parliament. Y'all will take a big crap and pee down your legs. But I ain't cleaning it up! This is child's play so far compared to the Roman Republic. Get your fresh hot pizza here, pizza here!
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
The POTUS is always in the news no matter who's in office. The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented. The facts are the facts though, he isn't getting any major bills passed, his staff is in chaos and he is hugely polarizing figure. Sadly it wouldn't be much different if Hillary was in office I don't believe either candidate would be able to govern effectively.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "
Alexander Tyler, 1787
America is at number 7...
Things can change too. The Civil War was not a peaceful time, LOL! But we recovered from it (mostly).
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
The POTUS is always in the news no matter who's in office.
Any president will be attacked by the press for behavior of a questionable nature. But sometimes they are reported on for conducting actual matters of state too. The president has tremendous power to focus attention on himself and the things he does, and the media needs to report on things. They will report it.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented.
I doubt they hate Trump anymore than a school of piranha hate a helpless cow floating down the river, or Jerry Springer hates the low-lifes that will do anything to be on his TV program. The news organizations are just having a feeding frenzy reporting on the things that people like to read about. When Trump denies them access to news conferences or calls them fakes, they report about it. If he carries on private meetings with the Russians, they report on it. The only thing unprecedented is that FOX News isn't kissing his conservative ass 24-7. The media does not shape the president. He's responsible for his own behavior, whether it's Trump grabbing pussy or Bill Clinton getting blow jobs in the oval office. The news reports this stuff and always with a certain about of relish. I'm just saying I'm getting tired of it. I'm not saying they shouldn't report it. Not at all. But it would be interesting to see the president focusing on the good of the country. I believe the media would report that too, if it actually happened.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented.
Bullshit. Trump has not changed by getting into office. He has always been a greedy, stoop to anything, businessman. He has demonstrated his utter disdain for anyone who is not loyal to him or questions him in any way. He treats the little guy like shit. He surrounds himself with criminal, unbalanced, negative, and distasteful people. He promotes hatred and violence. The news organizations do not hate him--they simply report what he does and says. He actually deserves the hatred of the American people--but the fact that not all do tells an ugly story about this country. Anyone who supports him is suspect in my book. And please point out any---Any--speech or talk he has given in which he does not lie; he can't string 5 words together without telling a lie. He will go down in history as the worst president we have ever had. I just hope he is not the last we ever have.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PMThe utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented.
It's so weird how he did/said absolutely nothing to tick people off and everyone hates him for no reason.
I can't imagine what (http://fortune.com/2017/04/30/reince-priebus-libel-laws-trump/) the press in particular (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-trashed-cnn-during-gop-fundraiser-in-new-audio/) would have against the guy. It'll forever be a mystery.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
Bullshit. Trump has not changed by getting into office. He has always been a greedy, stoop to anything, businessman. He has demonstrated his utter disdain for anyone who is not loyal to him or questions him in any way. He treats the little guy like shit. He surrounds himself with criminal, unbalanced, negative, and distasteful people. He promotes hatred and violence. The news organizations do not hate him--they simply report what he does and says. He actually deserves the hatred of the American people--but the fact that not all do tells an ugly story about this country. Anyone who supports him is suspect in my book. And please point out any---Any--speech or talk he has given in which he does not lie; he can string 5 words together without telling a lie. He will go down in history as the worst president we have ever had. I just hope he is not the last we ever have.
At least you're not caught up in the hate Trump movement. You're mistaken though, I can see the utter contempt and hatred some of them have. Some of them have expressed their desire to see him taken out of office feet first.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 30, 2017, 12:38:45 PM
At least you're not caught up in the hate Trump movement. You're mistaken though, I can see the utter contempt and hatred some of them have. Some of them have expressed their desire to see him taken out of office feet first.
Oh, I was 'caught' up in the anti-Trump movement years ago. It has moved from anti, to hate, to despise, to the love of seeing him dead. He is beyond despicable. Personally, he can live as he thinks fit. But now the entire country has to put up with this disgusting excuse of a human; if I had a choice of saving the life of a dog or Trump--not even thinking, it would be the dog--or the spider or the cockroach. Our country would be better by a huge margin if he were to have a heart attack and die. There is absolutely nothing I can point to that is a positive about this piece of shit. I am heart sick about him being president. And I am afraid that his presidency marks the lowest level this country has reached since its inception. And it will go down from here. He represents hate, classicism, fear, greed, and violence.
So, Drew do you now have a sense of what I actually feel about this piece of shit creature?
Quote from: Cavebear on July 30, 2017, 01:39:05 AM
Things can change too. The Civil War was not a peaceful time, LOL! But we recovered from it (mostly).
Next time it is with briefcase nukes, not carpetbags ;-9
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 30, 2017, 12:38:45 PM
At least you're not caught up in the hate Trump movement. You're mistaken though, I can see the utter contempt and hatred some of them have. Some of them have expressed their desire to see him taken out of office feet first.
True ... but Marxist scum are like that ... All Power To The Soviet (aka SJW).
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
Bullshit. Trump has not changed by getting into office. He has always been a greedy, stoop to anything, businessman. He has demonstrated his utter disdain for anyone who is not loyal to him or questions him in any way. He treats the little guy like shit. He surrounds himself with criminal, unbalanced, negative, and distasteful people. He promotes hatred and violence. The news organizations do not hate him--they simply report what he does and says. He actually deserves the hatred of the American people--but the fact that not all do tells an ugly story about this country. Anyone who supports him is suspect in my book. And please point out any---Any--speech or talk he has given in which he does not lie; he can't string 5 words together without telling a lie. He will go down in history as the worst president we have ever had. I just hope he is not the last we ever have.
Cheney - So?
So you are not a businessman ... maybe you want them rounded up, eh Raskalnikov? I have seen much hatred in the Picture of Dorian Grey you keep in your attic ... I hope you can find some way to dissipate it before it destroys you.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Oh, I was 'caught' up in the anti-Trump movement years ago. It has moved from anti, to hate, to despise, to the love of seeing him dead. He is beyond despicable. Personally, he can live as he thinks fit. But now the entire country has to put up with this disgusting excuse of a human; if I had a choice of saving the life of a dog or Trump--not even thinking, it would be the dog--or the spider or the cockroach. Our country would be better by a huge margin if he were to have a heart attack and die. There is absolutely nothing I can point to that is a positive about this piece of shit. I am heart sick about him being president. And I am afraid that his presidency marks the lowest level this country has reached since its inception. And it will go down from here. He represents hate, classicism, fear, greed, and violence.
So, Drew do you now have a sense of what I actually feel about this piece of shit creature?
There you go again ... St Ronnie.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Oh, I was 'caught' up in the anti-Trump movement years ago. It has moved from anti, to hate, to despise, to the love of seeing him dead.
Dead is just a bit much. Unemployed is a more worthy goal.
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2017, 08:56:39 PM
Cheney - So?
So you are not a businessman ... maybe you want them rounded up, eh Raskalnikov? I have seen much hatred in the Picture of Dorian Grey you keep in your attic ... I hope you can find some way to dissipate it before it destroys you.
Cheney is a close second.
Believe me I have thought about you last comment. That is why I stay away from news channels (well not some ESPN and the Baseball Channel) and don't go to any news sites. I have been focusing on my hobbies and other activities that feed the good side of me. I don't want to make myself sick with the venom I'd like to inject into Trump.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 30, 2017, 09:07:36 PM
Dead is just a bit much. Unemployed is a more worthy goal.
Is that you, Zorak? Space Ghost will foil all your plans!
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 09:14:17 PM
Cheney is a close second.
Believe me I have thought about you last comment. That is why I stay away from news channels (well not some ESPN and the Baseball Channel) and don't go to any news sites. I have been focusing on my hobbies and other activities that feed the good side of me. I don't want to make myself sick with the venom I'd like to inject into Trump.
So your villain identity is Cobra Man?
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2017, 09:22:59 PM
So your villain identity is Cobra Man?
Nah--not a cobra. Inland Taipan.
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2017, 12:22:11 AM
Get your fresh hot pizza here, pizza here!
gimme a thick crust, extra cheese, extra sauce, with mushroom and olive. do you have bread sticks?
I just spoke to someone last week that is still 100% convinced that Trump is better than Hillary. So dam loyal to the republican party that they are blind to the fact that Trump has put us in danger far greater than the danger Hillary's email server did.
So N Korea will be able to launch an ICBM into USA in less than a year. With Trump setting in the big chair that's not good. Be nice if he has only one and decides to send it to D.C.
somebody needs to give that boy some weed. Maybe some Lemon-Thai Kush, get a little couch-lock goin. Then we won't have to listen to his yap.
Quote from: fencerider on July 31, 2017, 01:29:58 AM
gimme a thick crust, extra cheese, extra sauce, with mushroom and olive. do you have bread sticks?
I just spoke to someone last week that is still 100% convinced that Trump is better than Hillary. So dam loyal to the republican party that they are blind to the fact that Trump has put us in danger far greater than the danger Hillary's email server did.
So N Korea will be able to launch an ICBM into USA in less than a year. With Trump setting in the big chair that's not good. Be nice if he has only one and decides to send it to D.C.
somebody needs to give that boy some weed. Maybe some Lemon-Thai Kush, get a little couch-lock goin. Then we won't have to listen to his yap.
Kill two birds with one stone. California is the target ... get rid of the hippies, the Mexican immigrants, NORKS get a live test of their system ... what is not to like?
The NORKS can launch now ... they are just waiting for Mini Me to issue the order. Team America isn't the future, it is here now. We will be flaming, projectile vomiting, head giving marionettes shortly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ
No, Gary Johnson would have been better. But you street fighting Commies and Nazis here in the 4th Reich are soo fucked! Hope you enjoy your conjoined Dresden/Hiroshima. I will only be an "I" from here on out. The Rs and Ds are so 1945.
The Japanese are building family nuke shelters. The Americans are watching Game of Thrones. Y'all going to get a bad case of whiplash, when reality comes knocking!
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 11:20:00 PM
Nah--not a cobra. Inland Taipan.
Not Cobra? So an ally of GI Joe then?
Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2017, 06:54:53 AM
Not Cobra? So an ally of GI Joe then?
I prefer GI Jane
I believe that we as a nation (the United States) is in grave risk of coming under attack by another nation because of the perceived weakness in Washington and the White House in particular.
Think about it. If Russia or perhaps China were to invade does anyone realistically believe Trump and his minions would be capable of coherently sustaining a defense of the homeland?
Our military has the weaponry, but the leadership at the top is completely null and void at this point.
I'm not saying an attack is eminent or that would have much to gain and indeed could lead to all out nuclear war, but the risks are more real than at any time I can remember.
I'm not even sure that Trump would even bother to muster a defensive plan, but instead intentionally sabotage any defense in favor of appearing to curry favor from our adversaries..
I think he's willing to sacrifice entire regions of our nation if it meant him getting some sort of business deal passed for himself.
Scary times indeed.
The Republican party had better think long and hard about removing him because if any of this comes to pass they may be the first to get executed if another nations leader is able to grab the reigns of power in this country. It's not beyond the realm of possibility.
Generalissimo Obama wasn't much to write home about either. He tried to start nuclear war over Syria and Ukraine .. and did successfully rape Libya. Is that what you mean by strong? Fuck foreigners in the ass strong? He was and still is ... a genius in his own mind, same as Hillary.
I have no fear of foreign invasion, the US military can handle things, even if we have to get the civilians the hell out of the way. Those who resist, get FEMA camps. Have you never heard of Jade Helm?
But in fact, there is nothing to stop any nuclear armed nation from attacking us ... including intimidation by any of our civilian leaders. They are all a joke. Our greatest war hawk is a man with brain cancer. Reminds me of France, 1940. But we have something bigger than the English Channel between us and our enemies.
And no, I don't think the President of Venezuela, Maduro (emphasis on mad) is a threat either.
Now Trump has fired Scaramouche. Told him to go do the Fandango.
What an embarrassment Trump is. Anyone who voted for him who is not now regretting it or embarrassed about it is seriously sick in the head.
By the way, Obama, while not perfect, was by far the best president in my lifetime (which I admit is not saying much... the last 50 years has produced a string of crappy presidents). Smart, competent, knowledgeable, capable and classy... but imperfect. Clinton was second best. Then there was a wide gap before we get to the mediocre presidents (Carter, Ford, Bush Sr. and Johnson). The remainder (Nixon, Reagan, Bush Jr.) were the Bad Presidents. I don't even consider Trump a president, but he is the worst White House occupant in history.
Kennedy was better than Obama was, but I wasn't born yet.
Quote from: Atheon on July 31, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Now Trump has fired Scaramouche.
Unbelievable! We live in fascinating times.
Quote from: Atheon on July 29, 2017, 12:38:21 AM
The Republican Party's true nature is being made plain for all to see, and it will be hard for them to keep it from further tarnishing their already tarnished brand.
You know it does not matter in the least how tarnished their brand becomes right?
Mike,
The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented.QuoteBullshit. Trump has not changed by getting into office. He has always been a greedy, stoop to anything, businessman. He has demonstrated his utter disdain for anyone who is not loyal to him or questions him in any way. He treats the little guy like shit.
Just the other day Trump was accused of ignoring even unwilling to look at a small child in a wheelchair since this is in character with what the media think of Trump it was reported and tweeted millions of time without any check of the facts. In reality Trump went to the boy first, shook his hand and had a conversation.
What I don't get is why the media has turned its eye to the fact Trump was using this poor boy as a prop for political purposes! He should be impeached for child abuse immediately!
Quote from: Atheon on July 31, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Now Trump has fired Scaramouche. Told him to go do the Fandango.
What an embarrassment Trump is. Anyone who voted for him who is not now regretting it or embarrassed about it is seriously sick in the head.
By the way, Obama, while not perfect, was by far the best president in my lifetime (which I admit is not saying much... the last 50 years has produced a string of crappy presidents). Smart, competent, knowledgeable, capable and classy... but imperfect. Clinton was second best. Then there was a wide gap before we get to the mediocre presidents (Carter, Ford, Bush Sr. and Johnson). The remainder (Nixon, Reagan, Bush Jr.) were the Bad Presidents. I don't even consider Trump a president, but he is the worst White House occupant in history.
Kennedy was better than Obama was, but I wasn't born yet.
Mr Kelly, the new WH chief of staff, fired him. Trump has a hard time firing anyone, so i have read. Mr Kelly is hard nosed, and will fire many more, if they don't shape up. Mr Priebus was totally ineffective, so fortunately he quit ... and that made an opportunity for Mr Kelly.
Quote from: SGOS on July 31, 2017, 04:31:57 PM
Unbelievable! We live in fascinating times.
You are the villain from Princess Bride?
Quote from: Drew_2017 on July 31, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
Mike,
The utter hatred of Trump by many news organizations and their owners is unprecedented.
Just the other day Trump was accused of ignoring even unwilling to look at a small child in a wheelchair since this is in character with what the media think of Trump it was reported and tweeted millions of time without any check of the facts. In reality Trump went to the boy first, shook his hand and had a conversation.
What I don't get is why the media has turned its eye to the fact Trump was using this poor boy as a prop for political purposes! He should be impeached for child abuse immediately!
Well, you have your heroes and I have mine. You can bow down to your very moral, honest, kind, thoughtful, generous, ethical and truthful wonderful and grand president. I won't. But you can do as you wish.
Quote from: SGOS on July 28, 2017, 06:49:02 PM
As a liberal, I suppose I should relish the continual media stream of comical White House chaos, but in fact I'm starting to get bored with it. I don't bother keeping up with it, anymore. I just read the headlines, always at the top of my google home page, and then I scroll down to see if I can find something more interesting to read. Often times, I have to scroll an entire screen to get past all the Trump de doo. Is anyone else experiencing Trump fatigue? It's like having an unwanted guest in my house who won't leave.
I think that's the intention - fatigue. Once we all get so tired of the BS that we stop caring or paying attention, then the real shenanigans will start.
But I agree, it's hard to keep from just getting bored with the whole circus.
Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2017, 06:44:52 AMThe Japanese are building family nuke shelters.
I just finished a book, called
Wool, the first of the
Silo series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silo_(series)), about an intentional destruction of the world, that was planned to be survived by people buried in silos. I've only read the first book, so far, so I don't know how it comes out. But it was an entirely plausible scenario, I thought. I can just about see some government doing such a thing.
I'm glad I'm getting old enough to not have to worry for long about this shit.
Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2017, 10:47:49 PM
Mr Kelly, the new WH chief of staff, fired him. Trump has a hard time firing anyone, so i have read. Mr Kelly is hard nosed, and will fire many more, if they don't shape up. Mr Priebus was totally ineffective, so fortunately he quit ... and that made an opportunity for Mr Kelly.
It seems like Kelly's taken a demotion, to me. From the head of the most powerful agency in the country - to glorified
butler!?
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 31, 2017, 11:49:28 PM
Well, you have your heroes and I have mine. You can bow down to your very moral, honest, kind, thoughtful, generous, ethical and truthful wonderful and grand president. I won't. But you can do as you wish.
I never said those things about our president. He was scrapped off the bottom of the barrel just above Hillary. Besides being an egotistical narcissistic cretin do you agree with these goals.
Resolution of conflicts in the middle east
Securing our borders
Deporting M-13 gang members
Deporting criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in the USA
Negotiating better trade deals for the USA?
Repair our infrastructure
I'm in favor of these initiatives no matter who's in office. I hope who ever is in office is successful regardless of who it is or their politics. I hope if Trump fails its because his policies suck or he isn't able to enact them. I hope he doesn't fail because the opposing party obstructs any and all initiatives.
I'm opposed to anyone being inaccurately defamed...aren't you? Or do you feel different if its someone you dislike then too bad?
The Republicans are the only obstructionists ... of god Obama.
What are the Democrats for ...
intensification of conflicts in the middle east
Opening our borders
Importing M-13 gang members
Importing criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in China
Negotiating worse trade deals for the USA
Ignoring the decay of our infrastructure ...
Sorry, that is actually the bi-partisan agenda ;-(
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 02, 2017, 09:33:13 PM
I never said those things about our president. He was scrapped off the bottom of the barrel just above Hillary.
I know you never said those things--are you aware of sarcasm? If he was from the bottom of the barrel then he could not have been 'above' Hillary. Oh--he is not my president.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 02, 2017, 09:33:13 PM
do you agree with these goals.
Resolution of conflicts in the middle east
Securing our borders
Deporting M-13 gang members
Deporting criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in the USA
Negotiating better trade deals for the USA?
Repair our infrastructure
I could knit-pick each of those, but I understand your point. Trump, you think, has these as goals of his? Yeah, right! If you think so, he has a bridge to sell you. He has one goal, and one goal only. He wants to amass more wealth for he and his family. Period. The rest is window dressing. Simply listen to his talks and he will make it clear. He has not lied about one thing, and one thing only--his desire to increase his wealth. I could easily say he was a disaster for this country--but he is much worse than that. But thanks to blind people like you, he will easily serve his full 4 years in office.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 02, 2017, 10:35:42 PM
I know you never said those things--are you aware of sarcasm? If he was from the bottom of the barrel then he could not have been 'above' Hillary. Oh--he is not my president.
That looked like a false attribution more than sarcasm. He was at the bottom just above Hillary. The two worst candidates got nominated. If Hillary had won she'd be my president as long as I'm a citizen of the USA.
Quote from: Baruch on August 02, 2017, 10:03:41 PM
The Republicans are the only obstructionists ... of god Obama.
What are the Democrats for ...
intensification of conflicts in the middle east
Opening our borders
Importing M-13 gang members
Importing criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in China
Negotiating worse trade deals for the USA
Ignoring the decay of our infrastructure ...
Sorry, that is actually the bi-partisan agenda ;-(
Probably the only thing slowing this agenda down is the general incompetence of government programs.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 02, 2017, 10:43:13 PM
I could knit-pick each of those, but I understand your point. Trump, you think, has these as goals of his? Yeah, right! If you think so, he has a bridge to sell you. He has one goal, and one goal only. He wants to amass more wealth for he and his family. Period. The rest is window dressing. Simply listen to his talks and he will make it clear. He has not lied about one thing, and one thing only--his desire to increase his wealth. I could easily say he was a disaster for this country--but he is much worse than that. But thanks to blind people like you, he will easily serve his full 4 years in office.
Is it the bridge you were sold? He may not actually be in favor of the list, he may be too incompetent even if he is in favor and I'll judge his presidency by whether he makes progress toward these goals. Who I vote president has no bearing on my evaluation, in fact I'm harder on some one I voted for. But I don't think he did it to amass greater wealth. I don't believe he ran to boost his ego. I believe he did it because he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and can do anything better than anyone else and maybe somewhere he wants better things for the people. His children appear successful in their own rights I can't imagine this late in his life he'd expose himself to the scrutiny for more money which he has plenty of.
I hope whoever is in office is successful. I have a great appreciation for this country and what it stands for.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 02, 2017, 10:48:15 PM
Probably the only thing slowing this agenda down is the general incompetence of government programs.
As Trump would say, the Bilderbergers have the world by the pussy ;-(
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 02, 2017, 09:33:13 PMI never said those things about our president. He was scrapped off the bottom of the barrel just above Hillary. Besides being an egotistical narcissistic cretin do you agree with these goals.
Resolution of conflicts in the middle east
Securing our borders
Deporting M-13 gang members
Deporting criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in the USA
Negotiating better trade deals for the USA?
Repair our infrastructure
This list can't be serious. I could probably slap together a similar list for anybody - no matter how despicable - with similarly vague goals that (in principle) everyone agrees with, like peace in the Middle East, creating jobs, and securing the border.
But the devil is in the details and sorry, but your Dear Leader's policies aren't up to snuff. His idea of securing the border is building a giant wall with a (presumably figurative) golden door and to get Mexico to pay for it. You might bellyfeel that these policies are doubleplus good, but that'll never make it so.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Oh, I was 'caught' up in the anti-Trump movement years ago. It has moved from anti, to hate, to despise, to the love of seeing him dead. He is beyond despicable. Personally, he can live as he thinks fit. But now the entire country has to put up with this disgusting excuse of a human; if I had a choice of saving the life of a dog or Trump--not even thinking, it would be the dog--or the spider or the cockroach. Our country would be better by a huge margin if he were to have a heart attack and die. There is absolutely nothing I can point to that is a positive about this piece of shit. I am heart sick about him being president. And I am afraid that his presidency marks the lowest level this country has reached since its inception. And it will go down from here. He represents hate, classicism, fear, greed, and violence.
So, Drew do you now have a sense of what I actually feel about this piece of shit creature?
Trump is ruining America. He doesn't understand the least bit about governing. I suspect he understands that, but doesn't see a way out of the situation.
I can suggest one. Resign...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 03:10:14 AM
Trump is ruining America. He doesn't understand the least bit about governing. I suspect he understands that, but doesn't see a way out of the situation.
I can suggest one. Resign...
Trump is all powerful ... Satan incarnate ... so says the Atheist.
Governance ... F the American people, F the World. I could use less of that.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 03:10:14 AM
Trump is ruining America. He doesn't understand the least bit about governing. I suspect he understands that, but doesn't see a way out of the situation.
I can suggest one. Resign...
I don't think he is displeased with himself. He is busy amassing the wealth he had only dreamed of before. He and his entire family are busy plundering the country and the people of this country are only interested in his tweets.
Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Trump is all powerful ... Satan incarnate ... so says the Atheist.
Governance ... F the American people, F the World. I could use less of that.
As you well know, Satan is a fiction. But The Donald, as The Corporation, is not. And he is busy making sure his Corporation is fattening up right now. And it is.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 02, 2017, 10:46:17 PM
That looked like a false attribution more than sarcasm.
Now you sound like Trump. You live in a world of alternate facts.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
I don't think he is displeased with himself. He is busy amassing the wealth he had only dreamed of before. He and his entire family are busy plundering the country and the people of this country are only interested in his tweets.
No, I am beginning to see he is reacting in a panic. For the first time in his life, he is subject to powerful opponents who don't care about profitable business deals, aren't subject to court settlements, and don't care about his usual tactics of "I dare you to take me to court because you will go broke trying". He doesn't have his usual attacks that worked before.
He is in a whole new world and one that he can't manage in his accustomed ways. I see a scared businessman realizing legal habits are not on his side. And he is thrashing around trying to figure out what to do while the whole government is starting to turn its attention on his past.
Government is NOT the place to be when you have secrets to keep...
Trump is going to find that he has 2 choices. One is to try to fire everyone who threatens him. And he can't succeed at that. Too many people investigating him. Second, he can bargain for a pardon. And he can't give it to himself.
This is a doomed Presidency. And I thank the Constitution and the political powers for that.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 09:44:35 AM
No, I am beginning to see he is reacting in a panic. For the first time in his life, he is subject to powerful opponents who don't care about profitable business deals, aren't subject to court settlements, and don't care about his usual tactics of "I dare you to take me to court because you will go broke trying". He doesn't have his usual attacks that worked before.
He is in a whole new world and one that he can't manage in his accustomed ways. I see a scared businessman realizing legal habits are not on his side. And he is thrashing around trying to figure out what to do while the whole government is starting to turn its attention on his past.
Government is NOT the place to be when you have secrets to keep...
Trump is going to find that he has 2 choices. One is to try to fire everyone who threatens him. And he can't succeed at that. Too many people investigating him. Second, he can bargain for a pardon. And he can't give it to himself.
This is a doomed Presidency. And I thank the Constitution and the political powers for that.
Okay, Cavebear, that is reason talking. And I really, really, hope you are right. In the past year reason and logic in politics has taken a huge hit for me. You should be right in your assessment. But I still have this fear gnawing away in the back of head that Trump will be unscathed at the end of the day. And he could even win a second term. Yes, I know that is unreasonable and I hope I am just batshit crazy to even think about it.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 09:44:35 AM
No, I am beginning to see he is reacting in a panic. For the first time in his life, he is subject to powerful opponents
It might be panic the way he seems to be wildly hiring and firing lately. I would think it would take more than a day or two to consider what you want in a staff. This "Now you're hired. Now you're fired." And "First, I liked you. Now I don't like you anymore" pattern seems eerily impulsive. Or maybe he just likes hiring and firing.
He's draining the swamp. But then he fills it up and drains it again. WTF?? This is not the well oiled machine he bragged about.
"Trump only wants to stop illegal immigration," they said. "He only wants to stop the bad hombres," they said. "He's not against legal immigration," they said.
I knew they were ling through their teeth. Trump and the Republicans hate immigrants. Never mind that they are all descended from (and some even married to, or are parents to) immigrants. Fuckers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb0Wodr2T3c&t=722s
You don't mind immigration to the US, while hiding in Taiwan, don't you ;-) Enjoy the Red Chinese invasion coming to Taiwan, as soon as WW III starts.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
I don't think he is displeased with himself. He is busy amassing the wealth he had only dreamed of before. He and his entire family are busy plundering the country and the people of this country are only interested in his tweets.
You use your super powers to read his mind, just like you did with Obama? Really!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 09:44:35 AM
No, I am beginning to see he is reacting in a panic. For the first time in his life, he is subject to powerful opponents who don't care about profitable business deals, aren't subject to court settlements, and don't care about his usual tactics of "I dare you to take me to court because you will go broke trying". He doesn't have his usual attacks that worked before.
He is in a whole new world and one that he can't manage in his accustomed ways. I see a scared businessman realizing legal habits are not on his side. And he is thrashing around trying to figure out what to do while the whole government is starting to turn its attention on his past.
Government is NOT the place to be when you have secrets to keep...
Trump is going to find that he has 2 choices. One is to try to fire everyone who threatens him. And he can't succeed at that. Too many people investigating him. Second, he can bargain for a pardon. And he can't give it to himself.
This is a doomed Presidency. And I thank the Constitution and the political powers for that.
Don't worry, President Zuckerberg is waiting in the wings, to save you Snowflakes from the sunlight. That and cockroaches.
Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2017, 01:07:15 PM
You use your super powers to read his mind, just like you did with Obama? Really!
What mind???
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
What mind???
Haha .. your mind. Millions of Americans can read minds, particular Presidents, Congressmen, SCOTUS etc. Superpowers.
Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2017, 01:10:08 PM
Haha .. your mind. Millions of Americans can read minds, particular Presidents, Congressmen, SCOTUS etc. Superpowers.
How can you read something that isn't there????
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
I don't think he is displeased with himself. He is busy amassing the wealth he had only dreamed of before. He and his entire family are busy plundering the country and the people of this country are only interested in his tweets.
Which is probably why he adores Putin so much - he's said to be worth as much as
252 billion dollars (http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/08/03/11/52/putins-wealth-more-than-bezos-and-gates-combined-congress-told)! Chump worships wealth, so naturally Putin's his god.
Resolution of conflicts in the middle east
Securing our borders
Deporting M-13 gang members
Deporting criminal illegal aliens
Creating jobs and wealth in the USA
Negotiating better trade deals for the USA?
Repair our infrastructureQuote from: Hydra009 on August 02, 2017, 11:34:44 PM
This list can't be serious. I could probably slap together a similar list for anybody - no matter how despicable - with similarly vague goals that (in principle) everyone agrees with, like peace in the Middle East, creating jobs, and securing the border.
But the devil is in the details and sorry, but your Dear Leader's policies aren't up to snuff. His idea of securing the border is building a giant wall with a (presumably figurative) golden door and to get Mexico to pay for it. You might bellyfeel that these policies are doubleplus good, but that'll never make it so.
The only candidate wretched enough to give Trump any chance was Hillary and even then she still should have won. All she needed was some kind of message. The previous administration didn't have these goals. If Obama had his way we'd be paying $10 a gallon for gas causing the poor to get poorer and the rich to get richer. Obama encouraged illegal immigration and supported sanctuary cities. He invested money in green companies many of which went bankrupt. He did little to stem the tide of jobs leaving overseas and he ran the deficit up to unconscionable heights. Bush gave us Obama, Obama has given us Trump.
I'm still skeptical of any wall being built, I've seen a fence design that's better. I'm in favor of securing the borders and control immigration. Legal immigration is vital to the USA so it should be streamlined. Sanctuary cites are an affront to law and order. They create a dual legality where cities can determine their own laws.
I don't think America has ever stopped being great but it can be a lot better. Trump should be given the opportunity for his polices to work.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 11:11:51 AM
Okay, Cavebear, that is reason talking. And I really, really, hope you are right. In the past year reason and logic in politics has taken a huge hit for me. You should be right in your assessment. But I still have this fear gnawing away in the back of head that Trump will be unscathed at the end of the day. And he could even win a second term. Yes, I know that is unreasonable and I hope I am just batshit crazy to even think about it.
The second worst thing Trump could do (first being winning the election) is to be successful. It would be disastrous if the country improved under Trump. So let us hope he is a miserable failure, that the country falls into complete disarray, unemployment skyrockets, riots break out, people start shooting police, foreign countries develop nuclear powers... Oh wait we had 8 years of that.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
How can you read something that isn't there????
You keep saying ... you know exactly what he is thinking, planning, doing .. I am only a demigod, you are claiming to be G-d. That can't be true, because either Obama is G-d or Hillary is G-d.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
Which is probably why he adores Putin so much - he's said to be worth as much as 252 billion dollars (http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/08/03/11/52/putins-wealth-more-than-bezos-and-gates-combined-congress-told)! Chump worships wealth, so naturally Putin's his god.
Carlos Slim, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos ... Putin is small potatoes. Yes, they do worship wealth, we are going to return to Ancient Egypt, with the common people working their whole lives, building pyramids (Presidential Libraries) for the next dead Pharaoh.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 06:13:39 PM
Trump should be given the opportunity for his polices to work.
Just like Obama was given an opportunity. I can why you are a theist.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 08:27:06 PM
Just like Obama was given an opportunity. I can why you are a theist.
I'm not sure what the linkage is but Obama was able to get a lot of his agenda through. The problem was it didn't make the country safer or make the country wealthier. You and other democrats can remain in denial about why Trump was elected at your own peril.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2017, 08:27:06 PM
Just like Obama was given an opportunity. I can why you are a theist.
Obama wanted war with Russia. So does Hillary. Is that what you want? Now that McInsane has moved to the D side of the house, perhaps you also want war with Iran.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 09:40:28 PM
I'm not sure what the linkage is but Obama was able to get a lot of his agenda through. The problem was it didn't make the country safer or make the country wealthier. You and other democrats can remain in denial about why Trump was elected at your own peril.
Obama's agenda wasn't what was claimed. He lied his whole life, hence was the perfect candidate in 08. Conceived in a CIA test tube. People project onto politicians what they want to see. Both sides do it ... and I see what both sides are doing ... fools! Gay people projected that Obama was gay, liberals projected he was liberal .. of course straight people project that Trump is straight, conservatives project that he is conservative ... they are wrong too. We want Superman to arrive from the Fortress of Solitude, and save us from our nightmares.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 06:13:39 PMThe only candidate wretched enough to give Trump any chance was Hillary and even then she still should have won. All she needed was some kind of message.
That doesn't really have any relevance to what I posted, so it's a little weird that you bring this up. But yeah, if Hillary Clinton had ran a better campaign, she'd be prez right now instead of Trump. Brilliant deduction, Sherlock Holmes.
QuoteThe previous administration didn't have these goals.
ORLY? Obama didn't want peace in the middle east or secure borders or jobs? Do you by any chance know what the economy was like when he took office? Spoiler alert: jobs factored heavily.
QuoteObama encouraged illegal immigration
Alternative fact spotted!
QuoteHe invested money in green companies many of which went bankrupt. He did little to stem the tide of jobs leaving overseas and he ran the deficit up to unconscionable heights. Bush gave us Obama, Obama has given us Trump.
Some of that may be true, at least on a technical level.
QuoteLegal immigration is vital to the USA so it should be streamlined.
Did you see the video above? It seems Dear Leader doesn't agree.
QuoteI don't think America has ever stopped being great
Ugh. Do we really have to "think" in those terms?
QuoteTrump should be given the opportunity for his polices to work.
Haha. No.
I'd very much like to live to see America make social and technological progress, so I'm not going to give carte blanche to some plutocrat piece of crap raving about "bad hombres" and global warming as a Chinese plot and doing his damnest to reverse every last ounce of progress achieved under the Obama administration.
hmmm the def of a sanctuary city is one where the police insist on doing their own job and refusing to do the job of the federal government. In CA police can only keep someone for 48 hrs that hasnt committed a crime. and being illegal is not a crime local police can prosecute.
The latest and greatest according to XM is that Mueller has 17 high power lawyers investigating Trump. A couple of those lawyers already have celebrity status. They have no reason to step away from their reg job, unless Mueller is giving them the opportunity to get their hands in something really greasy. Maybe the stories about Trump laundering billions of dollars for the Russians are true.
Mike What mind???... Michael J Fox Family Ties - It's like there's this little voice inside his head saying "Boy. You can see for miles in here"
I'm still waiting for Trump to show some sign of intelligence. Guess I better pull me up a chair.
Anyone who wants to be President, shows signs of not being intelligent, or of being insane. USA is dead, long live USA.
Federalism is an ongoing experiment that Europeans don't have. Their degree of royal centralization was part of the reason why the US exists. It will be up to the courts to decide to what degree local constabulary can be Federalized. This wouldn't even be an issue in other countries ... the local serves the capital, if not the sovereign. Ask France or GB.
Personally I have no problem with sanctuary cities. I do have a problem with secession. That will bring nukes, not cannons. Like I said, the US is dead. Before the self-righteous South seceded, the self-righteous Yankees wanted to. This conflict has never been resolved, even if the two political parties have reversed positions on many things.
And fine, I have no problem with investigations. I remember Watergate. There should be permanent prosecutions against all members of SCOTUS, WH and Congress. They are all criminals, all the time. But then ... the US is dead.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 09:40:28 PM
I'm not sure what the linkage is but Obama was able to get a lot of his agenda through. The problem was it didn't make the country safer or make the country wealthier. You and other democrats can remain in denial about why Trump was elected at your own peril.
The linkage is that Obama had to face an unreal congress--a congress that had only one thing in mind and that was to block anything that Obama wanted to do.
Why does the country need to be made 'safer'?? Safe from what country or threat?? The biggest worry the general population has is being gunned down by gun owners in this country. The worst terrorist problem is in the US from it's own citizens, not outsiders. And the country was certainly 'safer' than under Bush! And you think Trump will/is making this country safer now? Okay............
I am not a democrat. I vote for whoever is best for the average guy in this country. So, I usually end up voting for the lesser of all the evils. I sort of take Burach's stance on national politics; all of them running for a national office is evil; at best they have compromised whatever 'ethics' they had to get where they are. And yes, the Demos are, as a whole, a bunch of sniveling, cowards who can and will mess up a wet dream. Trump won because he appealed to the basic white racist/male dominant part (the largest part, which is aided by the christians) country we were from the start--have you ever read the original constitution? And that is what frightens me about Trump--he represents that part of our society.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 06:24:23 PM
The second worst thing Trump could do (first being winning the election) is to be successful. It would be disastrous if the country improved under Trump. So let us hope he is a miserable failure, that the country falls into complete disarray, unemployment skyrockets, riots break out, people start shooting police, foreign countries develop nuclear powers... Oh wait we had 8 years of that.
If Trump were successful, it would have absolutely nothing to do with what this country did or did not do. His goal is to generate as much wealth and power for him and his family and close associates. What happens to the country is a moot point for him. He already is a 'miserable failure' as a human being. Look at what he says--and look at what he does. They match. He does not lie about him being a sleaze in both social conduct and in business conduct. One of his goals is revenge and destroying those who are not loyal to him. The truth to him is immaterial--that changes by the moment. He is about as far from being the classic 'Christ-like' of any national character I've ever seen--yet the christians love him (which is not surprising since for the most part, christians love white supremacists and male dominated society), and he appeals to only the most base of our society.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 03, 2017, 09:40:28 PM
You <snip> can remain in denial about why Trump was elected at your own peril.
Peril! Oh no, PERIL!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 04, 2017, 11:08:18 AM
The linkage is that Obama had to face an unreal congress--a congress that had only one thing in mind and that was to block anything that Obama wanted to do.
Why does the country need to be made 'safer'?? Safe from what country or threat?? The biggest worry the general population has is being gunned down by gun owners in this country. The worst terrorist problem is in the US from it's own citizens, not outsiders. And the country was certainly 'safer' than under Bush! And you think Trump will/is making this country safer now? Okay............
I am not a democrat. I vote for whoever is best for the average guy in this country. So, I usually end up voting for the lesser of all the evils. I sort of take Burach's stance on national politics; all of them running for a national office is evil; at best they have compromised whatever 'ethics' they had to get where they are. And yes, the Demos are, as a whole, a bunch of sniveling, cowards who can and will mess up a wet dream. Trump won because he appealed to the basic white racist/male dominant part (the largest part, which is aided by the christians) country we were from the start--have you ever read the original constitution? And that is what frightens me about Trump--he represents that part of our society.
Don't cry for me, Obama-nation ... let the D party go to the FEMA camps. I appealed to Gary Johnson, but you Clinton cucks didn't listen. And no, I am not a White Male Racist (WMR). Clinton was a douche, Bush Jr was a douche, Obama was a douche ... and either Trump or Hillary would rule like a douche. Live with your choices, my fellow Germanics ... enjoy your goose-stepping ... lead with R or L foot.
Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2017, 10:49:19 PM
People project onto politicians what they want to see. Both sides do it ... and I see what both sides are doing ... fools! Gay people projected that Obama was gay, liberals projected he was liberal
Of course, Rorschach tests always use black ink, don't they?
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2017, 05:28:56 PM
Of course, Rorschach tests always use black ink, don't they?
You don't understand visual tests, do you? The white around the black is just as significant as the black in the white. That is the determiner of cultural bias and visual paradox. Also what about white blotch on black paper?
Hey, maybe we'll get lucky:
The Solar Eclipse Could Mean Disaster for Trump, According to Astrologers (http://www.newsweek.com/total-solar-eclipse-trump-astrology-prediction-643776)
QuoteDonald Trump’s presidency was written in the starsâ€"at least that’s what astrologers are saying. He was born during a lunar eclipse, they point out, which makes him more susceptible to the power of eclipses. And if eclipses are monumental celestial events with real-world consequences, as astrologers believe, then the rare total solar eclipse happening in August could have major implications for Trump, especially given the growing drama around his administration.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2017, 06:03:32 PM
Hey, maybe we'll get lucky:
The Solar Eclipse Could Mean Disaster for Trump, According to Astrologers (http://www.newsweek.com/total-solar-eclipse-trump-astrology-prediction-643776)
Worked for Nancy Reagan ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2017, 06:03:04 PM
You don't understand visual tests, do you? The white around the black is just as significant as the black in the white. That is the determiner of cultural bias and visual paradox. Also what about white blotch on black paper?
Oh, just like Yin and Yang, huh?
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2017, 06:04:46 PM
Oh, just like Yin and Yang, huh?
That one isn't random. Orientals are superior to Westerners, they got their shit together. Westerners in general, and Americans in particular, worship disorder and imbalance (and the resulting injustice). This is one reason why all non-Western societies fear and hate us, justifiably. We are legends only in our own minds.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2017, 06:04:17 PM
Worked for Nancy Reagan ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2017, 06:03:32 PM
The Solar Eclipse Could Mean Disaster for Trump, According to Astrologers (http://www.newsweek.com/total-solar-eclipse-trump-astrology-prediction-643776)
Thanks, that was helpful.
I live to be helpful!
Damn!
Wall Street is up, corporate profit is up and unemployment is down due to hiring. This is disastrous it couldn't be due to Trumps policies...I smell a rat a big fat commie rat! The Ruskies must be pouring money into the world economy just to make Trump look good. Collusion if there ever was any.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 04, 2017, 06:59:15 PMWall Street is up, corporate profit is up and unemployment is down due to hiring. This is disastrous it couldn't be due to Trumps policies
It's not particularly likely, actually. He's only been in office 6 months and seems too preoccupied with garbled tweets, self-aggrandizing rallies, golfing, and near-daily scandals to do much governing.
But hey, if you can prove a causal connection between Trump policies and actual improvements in any of these areas, I'm all ears. Given your laughable idea of evidence and inability to discuss anything rationally, I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath.
QuoteI smell a rat a big fat commie rat! The Ruskies must be pouring money into the world economy just to make Trump look good. Collusion if there ever was any.
Fools love a fool. And from the looks of things, you've clearly found your soulmate.
Quote from: SGOS on July 28, 2017, 06:49:02 PM
As a liberal, I suppose I should relish the continual media stream of comical White House chaos, but in fact I'm starting to get bored with it. I don't bother keeping up with it, anymore. I just read the headlines, always at the top of my google home page, and then I scroll down to see if I can find something more interesting to read. Often times, I have to scroll an entire screen to get past all the Trump de doo. Is anyone else experiencing Trump fatigue? It's like having an unwanted guest in my house who won't leave.
That happened two years ago for me. I can't follow any of it, it exhausts me to the core. Fuck that guy.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 04, 2017, 09:06:19 PM
It's not particularly likely, actually. He's only been in office 6 months and seems too preoccupied with garbled tweets, self-aggrandizing rallies, golfing, and near-daily scandals to do much governing.
Probably right but there would be a linkage if all the figures took a nose dive. The media would make sure of it.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 05, 2017, 11:36:28 AM
Probably right but there would be a linkage if all the figures took a nose dive. The media would make sure of it.
All news is bad news. And they apply it to the sitting politician as they feel like. You can't still blame everything on George W, can you? Not only is the President an actually minor part of the Federal government, but to not take the other 7 billion humans into the account, is a bit ... provincial. We live in a world economy. It is manipulated by the powerful in both public and private sectors. White collar crime is rampant worldwide. There are no true free markets, and never were. Adam Smith was a douche ... but so was Karl Marx.
Trump is in trouble more and more every day, and I'm glad of that. Lately, he has been losing the most respected members of the Republican party. McCain is after him now. So is Graham. Sen Flake's book is damning. His approval rating is dropping. Independents are falling away in droves. Pretty soon, he will only have the 20% base of conspiracy theory crazies still supporting him.
The quicker we are rid of this fool, the better.
nice thought cavebear, but they say mueller could take 2 years to finish his investigation. Idon't know why. We only gotta lock him up in jail or the psyche ward for 10 years or so. Maybe Mueller wants a 100 year sentence.
We could get lucky and have Mr Douche Trump fire Sessions. The Senate likes Sessions as a Senator so if he gets fired its game-on as far as the Senate is concerned.
Quote from: fencerider on August 06, 2017, 03:35:23 AM
nice thought cavebear, but they say mueller could take 2 years to finish his investigation. Idon't know why. We only gotta lock him up in jail or the psyche ward for 10 years or so. Maybe Mueller wants a 100 year sentence.
We could get lucky and have Mr Douche Trump fire Sessions. The Senate likes Sessions as a Senator so if he gets fired its game-on as far as the Senate is concerned.
It depends on the Republicans. Trump could reassign Sessions to Homeland Security and name a new Attorney General who would fire Mueller. Then it would be up to the Republicans to decide to impeach Trump.
The law basically says that Congress can impeach a President for any reason they choose. They would have considerable Democratic support. But they would have to start it in the House and conduct it in the Senate.
I think it would be better for the country to impeach Trump.
Hillary could eat a live human baby on live TV, and you D's would love it. You have nothing on the R's.
Nuclear war with China/Russia/NK will take care of you #*#&$ living on both coasts. Fly Over Country rules!
Retroactively impeach all still living Presidents. You know you want to. Show trials, Soviet style.
Thinking of it in strictly political terms, I hope Trump remains in office. He is the perfect worst example of a Republican candidate in 2020. The GOP desires him in office to sign the bills they can't agree to pass, and he will be the campaign target of every Democrat right down to local alderman. Are there even Aldermen anymore? Well, if there are, they will run against him...
The D party has so crippled itself, that they have to race in wheelchairs. Even a one legged Republican can beat them like a drum. Which is sad.
Aldermen is the term for city councilmen in Chicago .. not my kind of town! Maybe NYC too? Old English term ... very much past its sell by date.
well I was wrong it wasn't 17 it's 16 lawyers investigating Trump. 14 of the top financial crimes lawyers working on Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/05/robert-mueller-donald-trump-russia
I wish they would hurry up so that we could all know how this story ends
Quote from: fencerider on August 06, 2017, 01:22:02 PM
well I was wrong it wasn't 17 it's 16 lawyers investigating Trump. 14 of the top financial crimes lawyers working on Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/05/robert-mueller-donald-trump-russia
I wish they would hurry up so that we could all know how this story ends
Yes, some things are best resolved quickly. It is no kindness to kill a person slowly, and no good for the nation to drag things along...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 02:12:33 PM
Yes, some things are best resolved quickly. It is no kindness to kill a person slowly, and no good for the nation to drag things along...
With the IRS, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. So by definition, Trump isn't innocent. Neither are you ;-)
Seems like the party in power always steps on their own collective dicks...
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 08, 2017, 09:09:46 PM
Seems like the party in power always steps on their own collective dicks...
That phrase is a sore point for me. I worked in an administrative office (that managied telecommunication, office space, mail, and fleet management) with equal men and women on the staff. We had various supervisors who lasted about a year before being removed for incompetence. One was a former NYC cop sergeant who liked to use the phrase "let's not step on our dicks out there". To women... He knew nothing about our programs. We all thought he was an idiot. Both for his language and for his lack of program knowledge.
I spoke to him about that one day. He was shocked that an "inferior" would question him. He said we all needed "hardening up". What a jerk! I HATE guys like that...
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 08, 2017, 09:09:46 PM
Seems like the party in power always steps on their own collective dicks...
Feminists think they will make a difference, until they step on their own boobies.
Edited for PC
Seems like the party in power always steps on their collective genitalia or however they self-identify.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 09, 2017, 12:54:50 PM
Edited for PC
Seems like the party in power always steps on their collective genitalia or however they self-identify.
Yes, he was a Republican... I never heard any Democrat supervisor speaking so stupidly.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 09, 2017, 12:54:50 PM
Edited for PC
Seems like the party in power always steps on their collective genitalia or however they self-identify.
Either way, political ideologues are contortionists, if you try to figure out how they do that.
So is anyone talking about how two ego-inflated morons with no diplomatic senses and unpredictable behavior have been threatening each other with nuclear war lately?
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 10, 2017, 11:06:11 AM
So is anyone talking about how two ego-inflated morons with no diplomatic senses and unpredictable behavior have been threatening each other with nuclear war lately?
No war is a good idea. But we seem to be out of good ideas. Psy-op may become mil-op. Think 1914.
We have been on borrowed time since 1945 ... so I am pretty used to this. Trump won't do anything DoD doesn't tell him to do.
Quote from: Baruch on August 10, 2017, 12:47:13 PM
No war is a good idea. But we seem to be out of good ideas. Psy-op may become mil-op. Think 1914.
We have been on borrowed time since 1945 ... so I am pretty used to this. Trump won't do anything DoD doesn't tell him to do.
What happens if North Korea attacks Guam like they say they will? That'd be a declaration of war, and Trump would have the ability to strike back. The only people who would die would be innocent citizens who want nothing to do with this.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 10, 2017, 01:12:46 PM
What happens if North Korea attacks Guam like they say they will? That'd be a declaration of war, and Trump would have the ability to strike back. The only people who would die would be innocent citizens who want nothing to do with this.
Official declarations of war are so passe, and fake too. US is at war with everyone, all the time, including its own citizens.
Innocents always die (because we all die). And it is FU to enjoy that sort of thing, but the psychos in charge of nations are ...
What happens if Guam is attacked .. several possibilities, none of which are known at this time. Like Vietnam, this is all about live testing weapon systems on live people. And that is FU too. The NORKS can do several stupid things. Reaction depends on if and what. Or the US could act first. Don't consider Japan, Taiwan, S Korea, China nor Russia ... innocent either. They are up to their stupid asses in this shit. All these psycho nations want to test their latest shit on your ass.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 10, 2017, 01:12:46 PM
What happens if North Korea attacks Guam like they say they will? That'd be a declaration of war, and Trump would have the ability to strike back. The only people who would die would be innocent citizens who want nothing to do with this.
Guam is a bluff. What point would it serve? All it would do is rain death and destruction on his own country. He doesn't care about his fellow citizens but he would care about not having a country to rule and hide in. If he had nothing to lose he might as well attack Seoul. Its in range.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of his own generals have plans to take Kim Jong-un out. A coup would be the best outcome. Just get your normal ruthless dictator who has no nuclear aspirations to take over and nobody gets hurt.
I lived through the 80s when Reagan's rhetoric against the Soviet Union made me frightened about humanity being wiped out in a nuclear fireball, a fear mitigated only when Gorbachev and Reagan engaged in direct talks. But even that fear pales in comparison to what I feel now, with unhinged lunatics in Pyongyang and the White House pushing us to the brink of nuclear war.
There is only one way to prepare for nuclear war: tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.
If it comes to war, I have this to say: "Fuck you, Republicans. Fuck you, fuck, you, fuck you. YOU did this."
"But her emails..."
It's all Hillary's fault, what with Benghazi and all...
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 11, 2017, 04:41:20 PM
It's all Hillary's fault, what with Benghazi and all...
No, everything since 2001 can be blamed on The Shrub ;-)) But if you are serious about scapegoating .. you have to use an actual goat.
Quote from: Atheon on August 11, 2017, 04:18:49 PM
I lived through the 80s when Reagan's rhetoric against the Soviet Union made me frightened about humanity being wiped out in a nuclear fireball, a fear mitigated only when Gorbachev and Reagan engaged in direct talks. But even that fear pales in comparison to what I feel now, with unhinged lunatics in Pyongyang and the White House pushing us to the brink of nuclear war.
There is only one way to prepare for nuclear war: tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.
If it comes to war, I have this to say: "Fuck you, Republicans. Fuck you, fuck, you, fuck you. YOU did this."
"But her emails..."
If the conflict is resolved peacefully will you be thanking Trump and the republicans?
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 11, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
If the conflict is resolved peacefully will you be thanking Trump and the republicans?
He will be thanking Bernie for his diplomacy ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 30, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Oh, I was 'caught' up in the anti-Trump movement years ago. It has moved from anti, to hate, to despise, to the love of seeing him dead. He is beyond despicable. Personally, he can live as he thinks fit. But now the entire country has to put up with this disgusting excuse of a human; if I had a choice of saving the life of a dog or Trump--not even thinking, it would be the dog--or the spider or the cockroach. Our country would be better by a huge margin if he were to have a heart attack and die. There is absolutely nothing I can point to that is a positive about this piece of shit. I am heart sick about him being president. And I am afraid that his presidency marks the lowest level this country has reached since its inception. And it will go down from here. He represents hate, classicism, fear, greed, and violence.
We have never had a President situation as bad as today, and I was adult during Nixon. President Trump has threatened the Nations of the World with nuclear ruination, and threatened some damage to local nations, and is clearly out of touch with reality in his internationally disturbing threats. Therefore, the 25 amendment should be invoked...
So, Drew do you now have a sense of what I actually feel about this piece of shit creature?
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 11, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
If the conflict is resolved peacefully will you be thanking Trump and the republicans?
If this situation resolves itself, it will be in spite of Trump's playground threats. Both he and Kim Jong-Un are unpredictable and hopelessly moronic, which is what caused this situation in the first place. Will Kim Jong-Un call our bluff or will he back off? Only time will tell.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 12, 2017, 10:45:57 AM
If this situation resolves itself, it will be in spite of Trump's playground threats. Both he and Kim Jong-Un are unpredictable and hopelessly moronic, which is what caused this situation in the first place. Will Kim Jong-Un call our bluff or will he back off? Only time will tell.
So none of the previous administrations actions led to the conflict today? NKO built up its military capability from the ground up starting the day Trump was inaugurated?
Regardless of what happens if it turns out good its in spite of Trump if it turns out bad its because of Trump across the board on all subjects I imagine.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 12, 2017, 12:21:40 PM
So none of the previous administrations actions led to the conflict today? NKO built up its military capability from the ground up starting the day Trump was inaugurated?
Regardless of what happens if it turns out good its in spite of Trump if it turns out bad its because of Trump across the board on all subjects I imagine.
Do you think it is wise to say to an unpredictable dictator with nuclear power, "If you don't do what I say, I will reign down fire on you, the likes of which you have never seen before?" If someone with more diplomatic sense were in charge, like Obama, he would be trying to diffuse the situation instead of escalate it. But if you want to bring up previous administrations and their tendencies to start stupid, avoidable wars, which one started the War on Terror, the never ending conflict with no positive results we're still stuck with today?
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 12, 2017, 12:21:40 PM
So none of the previous administrations actions led to the conflict today? NKO built up its military capability from the ground up starting the day Trump was inaugurated?
Regardless of what happens if it turns out good its in spite of Trump if it turns out bad its because of Trump across the board on all subjects I imagine.
Well, yeah! It sure isn't anything Trump will have done. You don't control a rabid dog with a rabid human.
And I just realized what some earlier poster meant referring to a "poster fungus"
Caught an interesting few minutes of MSNBC late last night (couldn't sleep--channel flipping). Saw about 5 short video's talking about or showing the NK leader ranting and threatening to launch missiles at the area around Guam. It was the typical stuff that I've seen in the last few days. Then it was revealed that the first one dated from 2013, then 2014, then 2015 and now. All saying the same thing. I don't remember feeling any unease about NK in the last few years; only now when it is impossible to tell who is more crazy--NK or Trump.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 03:37:30 PM
Caught an interesting few minutes of MSNBC late last night (couldn't sleep--channel flipping). Saw about 5 short video's talking about or showing the NK leader ranting and threatening to launch missiles at the area around Guam. It was the typical stuff that I've seen in the last few days. Then it was revealed that the first one dated from 2013, then 2014, then 2015 and now. All saying the same thing. I don't remember feeling any unease about NK in the last few years; only now when it is impossible to tell who is more crazy--NK or Trump.
Ah yes Rachel Maddow. I love her (as a viewer only of course).
But it was one of the few times I disagreed. She ignored the fact that NK does actually have nuclear weapons now and didn't then...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 03:44:05 PM
Ah yes Rachel Maddow. I love her (as a viewer only of course).
But it was one of the few times I disagreed. She ignored the fact that NK does actually have nuclear weapons now and didn't then...
That may be true--we are still not totally sure. And it does not matter, for NK can and does bluster about, well, just about everything. As does Trump. So, when two crazies go at it, who know what could happen. But I do find it interesting that the SK'ens are not all that bothered. And I too, like Rachel!
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 12, 2017, 12:33:23 PM
Do you think it is wise to say to an unpredictable dictator with nuclear power, "If you don't do what I say, I will reign down fire on you, the likes of which you have never seen before?" If someone with more diplomatic sense were in charge, like Obama, he would be trying to diffuse the situation instead of escalate it. But if you want to bring up previous administrations and their tendencies to start stupid, avoidable wars, which one started the War on Terror, the never ending conflict with no positive results we're still stuck with today?
If any leader says anything in public, you know it is bullshit. All real work is done quietly. Like Bill Clinton meeting on the tarmac with the Attorney General last year.
And no, people think that Obama is diplomatic. Please tell that to Qaddafi, you partisans of the brain dead.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 03:48:50 PM
That may be true--we are still not totally sure. And it does not matter, for NK can and does bluster about, well, just about everything. As does Trump. So, when two crazies go at it, who know what could happen. But I do find it interesting that the SK'ens are not all that bothered. And I too, like Rachel!
What do you like about her best? I admire the lack of arguing talking heads on her show, the factual presentation and the "it took us weeks but we finally figured it out" aspects.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 04:07:53 PM
What do you like about her best? I admire the lack of arguing talking heads on her show, the factual presentation and the "it took us weeks but we finally figured it out" aspects.
In the world of biased commentators, she is the best. She is biased, but she is aware of it and faces it. If she is wrong, she will admit it and retract the part in error. She is not afraid to change her mind. She is also unafraid to admit when she does not understand something and tries to figure it out. And she will actually welcome any person with differing views to be a guest on her show. She is willing to look at and consider 'the other side'. She is a bit silly at times, and she could just drop the cocktail stuff. But yes, I do admire her and watch her when I want a good view of any subject.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 05:31:34 PM
In the world of biased commentators, she is the best. She is biased, but she is aware of it and faces it. If she is wrong, she will admit it and retract the part in error. She is not afraid to change her mind. She is also unafraid to admit when she does not understand something and tries to figure it out. And she will actually welcome any person with differing views to be a guest on her show. She is willing to look at and consider 'the other side'. She is a bit silly at times, and she could just drop the cocktail stuff. But yes, I do admire her and watch her when I want a good view of any subject.
Actually, I haven't seem the cocktail thing in a while. But yes on all the others. If there was just ONE show I was allowed to watch...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 05:35:02 PM
Actually, I haven't seem the cocktail thing in a while. But yes on all the others. If there was just ONE show I was allowed to watch...
That would be a good 'only' show to watch. And that would still leave baseball games for me to watch, since games are not 'shows'.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 05:40:18 PM
That would be a good 'only' show to watch. And that would still leave baseball games for me to watch, since games are not 'shows'.
LOL! I go channel flipping crazy here sometimes. Rachel ends at 10 pm and so do most Nationals games!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
LOL! I go channel flipping crazy here sometimes. Rachel ends at 10 pm and so do most Nationals games!
As a Yankees fan living on the left coast, I have to take what I can get. So, I find I follow SF quite a bit.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 05:45:18 PM
As a Yankees fan living on the left coast, I have to take what I can get. So, I find I follow SF quite a bit.
Used to be a Yankees fan (when they were failing in the 60s). Moved to DC just in time for the Senators to leave. LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2017, 06:36:32 PM
Used to be a Yankees fan (when they were failing in the 60s). Moved to DC just in time for the Senators to leave. LOL!
Ah--so YOU are the one who chased them out of town. :)
Quote from: Baruch on August 12, 2017, 04:04:03 PM
If any leader says anything in public, you know it is bullshit. All real work is done quietly. Like Bill Clinton meeting on the tarmac with the Attorney General last year.
And no, people think that Obama is diplomatic. Please tell that to Qaddafi, you partisans of the brain dead.
That may be true of most leaders, but I don't know if you've been watching the news. Trump is pretty fucking terrible at keeping his stupid mouth shut. The rest of the White House staff are doing their best to help him, to keep him calm and off Twitter. They make up excuses for him that his followers repeat, only for him to say on national TV, "Oh no. I was going to fire the head of the CIA anyway. It was my idea. That stuff with Russia was kinda getting to be a problem." So when he says he's going to retaliate against North Korea in the event of a nuclear attack, there are two possibilities. One, he's just saying the first stupid thing to come to mind and doesn't really have any idea what he's going to do in the event that North Korea attacks Guam. Or two, he really does plan to launch a nuclear missile at North Korea if Guam is attacked. Either way, you're giving the dumbass way too much credit.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 13, 2017, 12:14:38 AM
That may be true of most leaders, but I don't know if you've been watching the news. Trump is pretty fucking terrible at keeping his stupid mouth shut. The rest of the White House staff are doing their best to help him, to keep him calm and off Twitter. They make up excuses for him that his followers repeat, only for him to say on national TV, "Oh no. I was going to fire the head of the CIA anyway. It was my idea. That stuff with Russia was kinda getting to be a problem." So when he says he's going to retaliate against North Korea in the event of a nuclear attack, there are two possibilities. One, he's just saying the first stupid thing to come to mind and doesn't really have any idea what he's going to do in the event that North Korea attacks Guam. Or two, he really does plan to launch a nuclear missile at North Korea if Guam is attacked. Either way, you're giving the dumbass way too much credit.
Lefties assume .. that if I am not in favor of their favorite candidate, that I support Trump. Not true. I support any sitting President, it gets iffy if they stand up ;-)
What will happen, will happen, and blame all around, depending on one's particular bias. This is how it has been my whole life.
Now one can speculate about Kim or Donald ... but really it is just crazy arrow spinner stuff from children't games of yore.
And he isn't the only one who is unprofessional in public office, and not just elected idiots either. Humanity has been pretty disappointing since the first Moon landing, in my POV. I still thought we had turned a corner after Vietnam and Watergate ... sigh.
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2017, 12:20:23 AM
Lefties assume .. that if I am not in favor of their favorite candidate, that I support Trump. Not true. I support any sitting President, it gets iffy if they stand up ;-)
I made no such assumption. I said you give him too much credit. Trump has shown himself to lack the ability to keep his mouth shut, even to keep himself out of legal trouble. He doesn't even have basic self-preservation skills.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 13, 2017, 12:27:04 AM
I made no such assumption. I said you give him too much credit. Trump has shown himself to lack the ability to keep his mouth shut, even to keep himself out of legal trouble. He doesn't even have basic self-preservation skills.
That may be the whole point of the exercise ... non-survival ;-(
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 12, 2017, 12:33:23 PM
Do you think it is wise to say to an unpredictable dictator with nuclear power, "If you don't do what I say, I will reign down fire on you, the likes of which you have never seen before?" If someone with more diplomatic sense were in charge, like Obama, he would be trying to diffuse the situation instead of escalate it. But if you want to bring up previous administrations and their tendencies to start stupid, avoidable wars, which one started the War on Terror, the never ending conflict with no positive results we're still stuck with today?
Obama had 8 years to work his diplomatic magic on Korea and China I'm not sure if it even slowed down NKO's drive to acquire nuclear weapons and now they have with a delivery system. Should we try another 8 years of strategic patience? At this point Trump is promising drastic retaliatory action if NKO acts first. Other presidents including Clinton and Obama have suggested the same thing. Should Trump pre-emptively attack NKO that would be a different matter. If they attack anywhere first they have been duly warned. Hopefully the Generals will grow a set and take him out if that happens.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2017, 03:48:50 PM
That may be true--we are still not totally sure. And it does not matter, for NK can and does bluster about, well, just about everything. As does Trump. So, when two crazies go at it, who know what could happen. But I do find it interesting that the SK'ens are not all that bothered. And I too, like Rachel!
I thoroughly enjoyed her melt down and others in reaction to Trump winning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU)
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 13, 2017, 05:56:05 PM
Obama had 8 years to work his diplomatic magic on Korea and China I'm not sure if it even slowed down NKO's drive to acquire nuclear weapons and now they have with a delivery system. Should we try another 8 years of strategic patience? At this point Trump is promising drastic retaliatory action if NKO acts first. Other presidents including Clinton and Obama have suggested the same thing. Should Trump pre-emptively attack NKO that would be a different matter. If they attack anywhere first they have been duly warned. Hopefully the Generals will grow a set and take him out if that happens.
You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 14, 2017, 12:36:34 AM
You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.
And that is why we must surrender to Hitler ... or is it Stalin ... it changes so often I can't keep up. No, no miracles expected from political parties, from me.
Yes, innocents die ... it is what they were born to do. Occasionally the malefactors get what is coming to them, but only if there are real dragons in Westeros.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 13, 2017, 12:27:04 AM
I made no such assumption. I said you give him too much credit. Trump has shown himself to lack the ability to keep his mouth shut, even to keep himself out of legal trouble. He doesn't even have basic self-preservation skills.
Further, Trump hasn't the slightest understanding of basic government, negotiation, compromise, discussion, cooperation, and anything else that is not "all Trump". I doubt he could pass an 8th grade history test. The man is beyond ignorant of basic science facts and history
Which means he fits his 30% base PERFECTLY!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 14, 2017, 01:06:08 AM
Further, Trump hasn't the slightest understanding of basic government, negotiation, compromise, discussion, cooperation, and anything else that is not "all Trump". I doubt he could pass an 8th grade history test. The man is beyond ignorant of basic science facts and history
Which means he fits his 30% base PERFECTLY!
Don't blame his base. I am not part of it. Most people in the US aren't born with a silver spoon. All elites are like this, back to Pharaoh (as played by Yul Brynner).
As far as I'm concerned, MAD is still as relevant today as it was when the term was first coined. That is why nuclear deterrence works.
In the past two decades, US was successful in regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. In the past several decades, the US attempted and/or was successful at overthrowing democratically-elected governments in all of the following countries: Guatemala, Iran, Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, Lebanon, South Africa, Vietnam, Grenada, and Pakistan. They interfered in other countries like Egypt, Jordan, Somalia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos, and the Phillipines, often wreaking havoc. A useful must-read about this subject is the following book by John Perkins, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
In summary, when a new leader of foreign nation ascends to power, the US sends economic hitmen to corrupt that leader by asking him to sell vital services like water, education, sewage, farming, etc. to the US in return for military and political protection. Real life examples include: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan. If the leader refuses, the US will send in the "Jackals", CIA agents who seek to cause civil unrest or outright assassinate the leader. Real life examples: Guatemala, Panama, Venezuela, and Iran. If the Jackals fail to depose of the leader through clandestine means, the US will send in its military to forcibly depose the leader. Real life examples: Iraq, Panama, and Vietnam.
Comrade Kill All Fun isn't about to become an addition to that list, hence nuclear weapons. Self-preservation is as good a motivator as any.
But if the goal was to eliminate North Korea's nuclear weapons program, Fat Man is failing miserably. The more he threatens Little Boy, the more Little Boy will hold onto his nuclear weapons program. It's simple, really. If you're threatening to kill me and remove me from power, I'll hold onto the one thing that will prevent you from doing so: nuclear weapons. Why? MAD, deterrence.
That is why diplomacy works best. There has never been a show of brinkmanship bigger than that of Khrushchev and Kennedy, and it all played out on TV and in the media, yet the resolution came as a result of backdoor diplomacy and it included removal of launch sites from Turkey and Italy.
If shit does hit the fan, though, I'm safe. Dennis Rodman lives a mere 20 mins from me. I just hope he communicated that to his Beloved Leader.
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 14, 2017, 12:36:34 AM
You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.
I expect and hope and measure the performance of our leaders under two broad categories security and prosperity. I really don't care what political party is in office if they can get the job done. IMO we're worse off after 8 years of Obama. Bush gave us Obama, Obama (and Hillary) have given us Trump. I wasn't for Trump until it was a him or Hillary choice. I preferred Rubio or even Kasich over Trump. Now that he is president I'll evaluate him as any other president. Thus far I approve of some of his actions but he's inexperienced or just incompetent in other areas. Too early to call yet but he's fumbling and possibly squandering an opportunity to get things done.
Anyone who thought "it's him or her" clearly was not thinking when they voted for him.
From what I saw of the Obama era, many Americans never thought we would elect a black man and the repubs surely thought they would not. They could not recover from being rejected for a blackie and would not consider working with him at all. But that was not so much him being black as this is politics now, refusing to work together. But him being black and bowing to the tea party..working with the blackie was not an option.
if Kasich or Rubio was president right now we would not be having this discussion right now. I could live with either one of them. Both are more intelligent than Trump, both are moderates not wackadoodles. Sorry Drew maybe you don't want to admit it, but Trump is not smart at all. He's like a high school QB: slow and dumb, but at the center of attention. Don't let it go to your head, but president Drew is a much better deal than president Donald.
Aside from all the crap that already happened, now we have this incident in Charlottsville. Fri night a group of American Nazis were marching in the streets carrying swaztikas and torches in an imitation of the first days of the holicaust. Trump can't bring himself to condemn what took place on Fri or Sat, but he was very quick to condemn a reporter that spoke negatively about him on Sun? .
Quote from: Sorginak on August 15, 2017, 08:53:33 PM
Anyone who thought "it's him or her" clearly was not thinking when they voted for him.
Anybody who is a drone for the R or D party ... is part of the problem.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 15, 2017, 08:50:56 PM
I expect and hope and measure the performance of our leaders under two broad categories security and prosperity. I really don't care what political party is in office if they can get the job done. IMO we're worse off after 8 years of Obama. Bush gave us Obama, Obama (and Hillary) have given us Trump. I wasn't for Trump until it was a him or Hillary choice. I preferred Rubio or even Kasich over Trump. Now that he is president I'll evaluate him as any other president. Thus far I approve of some of his actions but he's inexperienced or just incompetent in other areas. Too early to call yet but he's fumbling and possibly squandering an opportunity to get things done.
I used to be like you. Never voted directly for any Bush family member, would give George W a chance to prove himself. Did vote for Obama twice, gave him a chance, then a second chance after he blew the first chance. I will only vote third party now.
Quote from: fencerider on August 16, 2017, 12:49:13 AM
if Kasich or Rubio was president right now we would not be having this discussion right now. I could live with either one of them. Both are more intelligent than Trump, both are moderates not wackadoodles. Sorry Drew maybe you don't want to admit it, but Trump is not smart at all. He's like a high school QB: slow and dumb, but at the center of attention. Don't let it go to your head, but president Drew is a much better deal than president Donald.
Aside from all the crap that already happened, now we have this incident in Charlottsville. Fri night a group of American Nazis were marching in the streets carrying swaztikas and torches in an imitation of the first days of the holicaust. Trump can't bring himself to condemn what took place on Fri or Sat, but he was very quick to condemn a reporter that spoke negatively about him on Sun? .
Trump condemned both protestors (some are innocent, but not anti-Fa). As he should given the results. FEMA camps for both sides. That is what is objected to ... that SJW aren't made heroes, though they did have the misfortune to play victims. I know enough to stay away from KKK rallies. This used to be a regular thing in my childhood (but not where I lived). Instead we were one town over from the Watts riots.
SJW makes out like Trump was down there ... under a bed sheet, leading it. But then SJW are racists. But y'all who aren't Jewish ... have no reason to fear the Nazis. You are the Commies. You should wear your Che t-shirts.
Rubio? We would have already invaded Venezuela. Kasich ... maybe better.
Quote from: aitm on August 15, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
From what I saw of the Obama era, many Americans never thought we would elect a black man and the repubs surely thought they would not. They could not recover from being rejected for a blackie and would not consider working with him at all. But that was not so much him being black as this is politics now, refusing to work together. But him being black and bowing to the tea party..working with the blackie was not an option.
I question how much Republicans hated Obama for his color. I think they hated him because he was a Democrat. I don't think they hated him any more than they hated Bill Clinton or Hillary. They did refuse to work with him, but that was an idea that was first voiced by Rush Limbaugh, as a political strategy, not the result of racial threats to white supremacy, and the strategy will continue during all democratic White Houses for the foreseeable future regardless of color. The presence of racism was apparent from certain segments of the population, and I was alarmed by how much of it was out there, but the Republican leadership didn't exploit it that much.
I don't think Republicans care that much about color. There was a "Draft Colin Powell" movement before Powell himself squashed it. Republicans just don't want Democrats in the White House.
I had hoped for better from Bill Clinton, because of his childhood. I expected better from Barak Obama, because of his childhood. But both were completely coopted by the Deep State. George HW and George W ... were Deep State. I see Donald Trump as coopted by the Deep State as anyone else. Donald Trump however had a privileged upbringing, just like the two Georges.
Quote from: SGOS on August 16, 2017, 07:09:34 AM
I question how much Republicans hated Obama for his color. I think they hated him because he was a Democrat. I don't think they hated him any more than they hated Bill Clinton or Hillary. They did refuse to work with him, but that was an idea that was first voiced by Rush Limbaugh, as a political strategy, not the result of racial threats to white supremacy, and the strategy will continue during all democratic White Houses for the foreseeable future regardless of color. The presence of racism was apparent from certain segments of the population, and I was alarmed by how much of it was out there, but the Republican leadership didn't exploit it that much.
I don't think Republicans care that much about color. There was a "Draft Colin Powell" movement before Powell himself squashed it. Republicans just don't want Democrats in the White House.
Why are Democrats the only ones who get heat for refusing to work with a Republican president? They even get heat from liberals and moderates. GOP, on the other hand, are rewarded for refusing to work with a Democrats president.
Or at least that is how it appears.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 15, 2017, 08:50:56 PM
I expect and hope and measure the performance of our leaders under two broad categories security and prosperity. I really don't care what political party is in office if they can get the job done. IMO we're worse off after 8 years of Obama. Bush gave us Obama, Obama (and Hillary) have given us Trump. I wasn't for Trump until it was a him or Hillary choice. I preferred Rubio or even Kasich over Trump. Now that he is president I'll evaluate him as any other president. Thus far I approve of some of his actions but he's inexperienced or just incompetent in other areas. Too early to call yet but he's fumbling and possibly squandering an opportunity to get things done.
How are we worse off after 8 years of Obama?
The economy is doing much better. Obama got us out of a recession.
We are effectively out of Iraq, just like vast majority of the American people wanted. It wasn't even Obama's timetable, he just oversaw the timetable negotiated by Bush.
Security-wise, how are we worse off than 2008? ISIL? That is not on Obama, that is a consequence of the Iraq war and incompetent Shiite Iraqi leadership. Obama used our drone technology to fight terrorists abroad instead of risking American lives.
What is the standard baseline you use to measure performance of presidents?
He means the economy was bad for Republicans who didn't get all the tax breaks they somehow think they deserve.
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 06:15:08 AM
Trump condemned both protestors (some are innocent, but not anti-Fa). As he should given the results. FEMA camps for both sides. That is what is objected to ... that SJW aren't made heroes, though they did have the misfortune to play victims. I know enough to stay away from KKK rallies. This used to be a regular thing in my childhood (but not where I lived). Instead we were one town over from the Watts riots.
SJW makes out like Trump was down there ... under a bed sheet, leading it. But then SJW are racists. But y'all who aren't Jewish ... have no reason to fear the Nazis. You are the Commies. You should wear your Che t-shirts.
Rubio? We would have already invaded Venezuela. Kasich ... maybe better.
Sorry Baruch, the two sides are not equal. Their ideologies are entirely opposed, and ironically Mitt Romney was right on the money in his tweet.
One side advocates slavery, antisemitism, racial superiority, and subjugation of other human beings. The other side advocates diversity, inclusion, equality, and social justice.
A few bad apples in the latter do not create an equilibrium between the two sides. There is one side in the wrong here, and you can say that while condemning the few violent apples on the other side.
There was one side shouting "blood and soil", "Jews will not replace us", etc. There was only one side imitating the first days of the Holocaust on American streets.
Someone pointed out that we fought a long, hard bloody war to wipe out the Nazis - doesn't Chump even know that!?
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Someone pointed out that we fought a long, hard bloody war to wipe out the Nazis - doesn't Chump even know that!?
Half of America supported the Nazis, until 1942. Just ask the Bush family. And no, wiping out the Nazis wasn't the plan, that is why we brought so many of their scientists to the US after the war, and employed their sleeper cells in E Europe that the Stalinists didn't catch. So no, your history is ... like George Washington chopping down a cherry tree. The actual ennui was against the Japanese, because of racism. Hitler and Mussolini were regarded as jokers in Boy Scout uniforms.
The purpose of the Civil War wasn't to exterminate the White Southerner. Not Lincoln's plan at all ... maybe John Brown's though. I am glad they hung him. Col Robert E Lee was the one who stopped him. But insurrection is OK, as long as it furthers Marxism, right? But the Southern reaction, was also insurrection. So they deserved what they got. They seceded for slavery, but they weren't punished for slavery, other than losing their investment in it. But the Yankees are just as evil then (wage and debt slavery), and are today as well. There are no good Americans, just ask the Natives or Marx (who is freebasing on the Noble Savage idea of Rousseau). The Yankees are capitalists, or did you miss that? Billions must die, so socialist utopia will arrive.
Quote from: Sylar on August 16, 2017, 03:49:49 PM
Why are Democrats the only ones who get heat for refusing to work with a Republican president? They even get heat from liberals and moderates. GOP, on the other hand, are rewarded for refusing to work with a Democrats president.
Or at least that is how it appears.
Be happy we don't routinely give each other the Sen. Sumner treatment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_of_Charles_Sumner
I think the British term would be "The Americans deserve a good thrashing".
The two parties have never cooperated. The idea that R or D have ever lined up behind each other's legislation is only a legend in your own mind.
Quote from: Sylar on August 16, 2017, 04:01:26 PM
Sorry Baruch, the two sides are not equal. Their ideologies are entirely opposed, and ironically Mitt Romney was right on the money in his tweet.
One side advocates slavery, antisemitism, racial superiority, and subjugation of other human beings. The other side advocates diversity, inclusion, equality, and social justice.
A few bad apples in the latter do not create an equilibrium between the two sides. There is one side in the wrong here, and you can say that while condemning the few violent apples on the other side.
There was one side shouting "blood and soil", "Jews will not replace us", etc. There was only one side imitating the first days of the Holocaust on American streets.
Self righteous are we? Maybe you love one master and hate the other ... oh, I read that somewhere. Can't serve both. I serve neither.
Ah, but the Media since the 80s, no longer has to give equal time to all (2) sides, like they used to. So ... no, I don't see that this is 1980, and nobody is giving equal time to anyone. It is Civil War, death to all enemies foreign and domestic. Anti-Fa are not bad apples, they are the heart of the D party. KKK isn't bad apples, they are the heart of the R party. I am not member of either party, I hate both. There a wrong side? Yes, ape men must all die. That is one side, we are all members of. But I get better after I eat supper ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Someone pointed out that we fought a long, hard bloody war to wipe out the Nazis - doesn't Chump even know that!?
He does not care. Can I make money?--that's what he cares about.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 16, 2017, 07:45:13 PM
He does not care. Can I make money?--that's what he cares about.
Like any capitalist. Haven't your read Das Kapital, comrade? So is your goal in life, to lose money? If Obama wants to be Gandhi, he will have to give up all his money making plans (post WH) and start up an ashram, and spin thread into cotton cloth, by hand, sahib.
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 06:06:41 AM
Anybody who is a drone for the R or D party ... is part of the problem.
If some other party has a chance to win I may consider voting but I'm not going to throw away my vote on principal.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 16, 2017, 10:52:34 PM
If some other party has a chance to win I may consider voting but I'm not going to throw away my vote on principal.
So if these geniuses run Hitler and Stalin, you will vote for one of them? Maybe the hard work of starting a new party, starts with you. This is normal in other countries, having more than 2 parties.
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
Be happy we don't routinely give each other the Sen. Sumner treatment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_of_Charles_Sumner
I think the British term would be "The Americans deserve a good thrashing".
The two parties have never cooperated. The idea that R or D have ever lined up behind each other's legislation is only a legend in your own mind.
I never said 'line up' behind each other's legislation. Political parties will always have different philosophies and solutions to the same problems, and they will always have those differences.
Bipartisanship isn't uncommon, though (https://bipartisanpolicy.org/history-of-bipartisanship-2/). What I was saying is that GOP do not get punished at the polls for refusing to work with Democrats, while the same is not true in reverse.
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 05:43:26 PM
Self righteous are we? Maybe you love one master and hate the other ... oh, I read that somewhere. Can't serve both. I serve neither.
Ah, but the Media since the 80s, no longer has to give equal time to all (2) sides, like they used to. So ... no, I don't see that this is 1980, and nobody is giving equal time to anyone. It is Civil War, death to all enemies foreign and domestic. Anti-Fa are not bad apples, they are the heart of the D party. KKK isn't bad apples, they are the heart of the R party. I am not member of either party, I hate both. There a wrong side? Yes, ape men must all die. That is one side, we are all members of. But I get better after I eat supper ;-)
Self-righteous? Not at all. You can't be self-righteous in face of Nazi and white supremacist ideology. You can only be righteous, and it is our duty to be so.
The "Antifa" group is not a new group, nor a new phenomenon. It is a new brand for the same group of anarchists that are called "Black Bloc". They show up at peaceful demonstrations to wreak havoc. They are often infiltrated by undercover cops to justify extra police presence, or police violence.
The KKK and Antifa do not represent the heart of any party -- they are minority groups, on the fringes. They need to be kept that way and not made more mainstream by normalizing their behavior.
Quote from: Baruch on August 17, 2017, 01:17:15 AM
So if these geniuses run Hitler and Stalin, you will vote for one of them? Maybe the hard work of starting a new party, starts with you. This is normal in other countries, having more than 2 parties.
The only way for third parties to win is to change the electoral law. Get rid of FPTP system and replace it with a proportional system.
But that's the dilemma, isn't it? The current two parties have no interest in changing an electoral law that will reduce their power. So, basically third parties are the only ones with a vested interest in such a change, yet they cannot be elected. Not if they ran on independent third party platforms.
They can win by running on the platform of one of the political parties, like Bernie Sanders did.
There are no easy fixes, no fast solutions. If you want third parties to have any impact, then you need to do the grunt work.. you need to identify which politicians running with one of the two parties resemble the closest a third party platform and vote for that person.
Quote from: aitm on August 15, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
From what I saw of the Obama era, many Americans never thought we would elect a black man and the repubs surely thought they would not. They could not recover from being rejected for a blackie and would not consider working with him at all. But that was not so much him being black as this is politics now, refusing to work together. But him being black and bowing to the tea party..working with the blackie was not an option.
Do you forget that the Republicans considered Obama a non-American? That wasn't "Just Politics".
Baruch said "Yes, ape men must all die". (From a quote I saw). I suggest that means he is racist.
Quote from: Sylar on August 16, 2017, 04:01:26 PM
Sorry Baruch, the two sides are not equal. Their ideologies are entirely opposed, and ironically Mitt Romney was right on the money in his tweet.
One side advocates slavery, antisemitism, racial superiority, and subjugation of other human beings. The other side advocates diversity, inclusion, equality, and social justice.
A few bad apples in the latter do not create an equilibrium between the two sides. There is one side in the wrong here, and you can say that while condemning the few violent apples on the other side.
There was one side shouting "blood and soil", "Jews will not replace us", etc. There was only one side imitating the first days of the Holocaust on American streets.
There's an unusually large amount of equivocation in the Nazi/SJW comparisons. Trump equivocated George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to Robert E. Lee: "Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. Should we remove statues of them too?"
Buying this line of reasoning is a psychological temptation, something to be avoided if one wishes to be intellectually honest. It was even thought provoking to me when he said that, not that I hadn't already considered it. And indeed those aspects of Washington and Jefferson disgust me. But that's not the argument. Trump wants reframe the debate to something else though misdirection. Trump wasn't talking about statues. He was justifying racism and white supremacy.
The statues are just bronze likenesses. Their removal is a matter of public opinion reflected by what the statues symbolize to a changing demographic. Not all Southerners long for a return to a more barbaric past. But they don't want another civil war, this time one part of the South against the Other Part of the South, while the Yankees look on in amazement. The insanity of that would be mind boggling. But the glorification of a racist Confederacy is something the south will probably have to sort out on it's own. I don't know that most Yankees are as stirred or embarrassed by the statues as the South is right now.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 03:17:51 AM
Baruch said "Yes, ape men must all die". (From a quote I saw). I suggest that means he is racist.
Yes, bear men must all die (eventually). Completed it for you. Actually I would kill all the D party members .. with bad jokes. They would die, because they can't take a joke .. too busy virtue signaling.
"What I was saying is that GOP do not get punished at the polls for refusing to work with Democrats, while the same is not true in reverse." ... cry all the way the the day care center, Snowflake. Life isn't fair ... I want Venezuelan socialism, or Cuban socialism etc.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 03:07:38 AM
Do you forget that the Republicans considered Obama a non-American? That wasn't "Just Politics".
Obama isn't American ... neither are you, unless Native American. My next door neighbor, he is Lakota, he has your number, paleface ;-)
Remember the good ol' days, about 100 years ago, when we were talking about Scaramucci, and Spicer... seems like a life time ago.
Quote from: SGOS on August 17, 2017, 07:11:18 AM
There's an unusually large amount of equivocation in the Nazi/SJW comparisons. Trump equivocated George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to Robert E. Lee: "Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. Should we remove statues of them too?"
Buying this line of reasoning is a psychological temptation, something to be avoided if one wishes to be intellectually honest. It was even thought provoking to me when he said that, not that I hadn't already considered it. And indeed those aspects of Washington and Jefferson disgust me. But that's not the argument. Trump wants reframe the debate to something else though misdirection. Trump wasn't talking about statues. He was justifying racism and white supremacy.
The statues are just bronze likenesses. Their removal is a matter of public opinion reflected by what the statues symbolize to a changing demographic. Not all Southerners long for a return to a more barbaric past. But they don't want another civil war, this time one part of the South against the Other Part of the South, while the Yankees look on in amazement. The insanity of that would be mind boggling. But the glorification of a racist Confederacy is something the south will probably have to sort out on it's own. I don't know that most Yankees are as stirred or embarrassed by the statues as the South is right now.
Americans hate all other Americans. The Communists have won. US is burnt toast. Fifth Column is a great strategy, since 1972. And yes, you must piss on every quarter in your change, and nickel, because ... racism. All Republicans must piss on every dime, because ... FDR. Pissing on a penny is confusing ... Lincoln wouldn't recognize today's Republicans. This is part of the ... get rid of Jackson on the $20. Don't forget the $1.
It is like people woke up from a weed induced dream and realized it is 1968 again.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 17, 2017, 07:21:06 AM
Remember the good ol' days, about 100 years ago, when we were talking about Scaramucci, and Spicer... seems like a life time ago.
Scaramucci is so yesterday. Plenty of other stupid things going on in the WH ;-)
So President Maduro in Venezuela is now dictator under new constitution he wrote himself. New law ... 25 years in prison for "hate or intolerance" ... must give folks here, a hard-on in their political organ. Is see a lot of Venezuela in America's future ... that and little food and no toilet paper.
Quote from: SGOS on August 17, 2017, 07:11:18 AM
There's an unusually large amount of equivocation in the Nazi/SJW comparisons. Trump equivocated George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to Robert E. Lee: "Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. Should we remove statues of them too?"
Buying this line of reasoning is a psychological temptation, something to be avoided if one wishes to be intellectually honest. It was even thought provoking to me when he said that, not that I hadn't already considered it. And indeed those aspects of Washington and Jefferson disgust me. But that's not the argument. Trump wants reframe the debate to something else though misdirection. Trump wasn't talking about statues. He was justifying racism and white supremacy.
The difference between Washington and Lee is that Washington was not specifically fighting to support slavery, though he engaged in it, but Lee did. In Washington's day, both sides engaged in it (sadly). In Lee's days, there was a real argument about it, and he CHOSE to support it.
Possibly a minor distinction to be sure, but a difference.
But to be fair, I am sure the British consider Washington a traitor to his country. As Lee was
The statues are just bronze likenesses. Their removal is a matter of public opinion reflected by what the statues symbolize to a changing demographic. Not all Southerners long for a return to a more barbaric past. But they don't want another civil war, this time one part of the South against the Other Part of the South, while the Yankees look on in amazement. The insanity of that would be mind boggling. But the glorification of a racist Confederacy is something the south will probably have to sort out on it's own. I don't know that most Yankees are as stirred or embarrassed by the statues as the South is right now.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 08:55:46 AM
But to be fair, I am sure the British consider Washington a traitor to his country.
I don't know how many of the British still hold bad feelings toward the US for escaping America's colonial status. There may be hard feelings, but I would think they are based on some of our present day behavior.
Likewise, I don't think the statue issue is a big concern for Yankees. I'm just going on my own personal feelings. The issue for me is civil rights, and that issue cuts across the Mason Dixon Line. I'm guessing the current struggle is between progressive Southerners and their Conservative cousins. I don't know this. It's just my guess.
Quote from: SGOS on August 17, 2017, 10:32:14 AM
I don't know how many of the British still hold bad feelings toward the US for escaping America's colonial status. There may be hard feelings, but I would think they are based on some of our present day behavior.
Likewise, I don't think the statue issue is a big concern for Yankees. I'm just going on my own personal feelings. The issue for me is civil rights, and that issue cuts across the Mason Dixon Line. I'm guessing the current struggle is between progressive Southerners and their Conservative cousins. I don't know this. It's just my guess.
Well, I'm not British either and I don't know what they think about Washington. My guess is that he just subsumed in the general loss of colonies world-wide. And they are polite so long as it doesn't involve "football".
On the other hand I AM a Yankee (Boston born) and was forced to spend 3rd through 7th grade learning "Virginia History" in the Southern version where the North unfairly attacked the South in a "War of Aggression" and I am still annoyed about it today. I KNOW these idiots, LOL!
My childhood friends grew up KNOWING the South would rise again, they KNEW they were better than the local Black kids ( can't use the terms they used routinely). They still considered Black people "escaped slaves".
I could go on in more disgusting detail, but the day my family left Virginia for the (relative sanity on Maryland, I cheered!
Need I mention that I was the only kid from north of the Mason-Dixon line in an all white school in Petersburg in the late 50s?
But to me, Lee was a traitor and ever statue of him or his fellows should be melted down and dumped far out at sea.
On the other hand, I do have a nice collection of Minie-Balls from the actual trench lines...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 10:50:49 AM
On the other hand I AM a Yankee (Boston born) and was forced to spend 3rd through 7th grade learning "Virginia History" in the Southern version where the North unfairly attacked the South in a "War of Aggression" and I am still annoyed about it today. I KNOW these idiots, LOL!
My childhood friends grew up KNOWING the South would rise again, they KNEW they were better than the local Black kids ( can't use the terms they used routinely). They still considered Black people "escaped slaves".
I worked with a proud Texan one summer for the Forest Service in Montana. He was the classic example of what you don't admire. He claimed that he honestly believed blacks were mentally inferior, although I questioned if he really did believed that, which he insisted he did. He advocated slavery and tolerated Yankees, but took cheap shots whenever he could. He delighted calling everyone a Yankee, which didn't bother me, except for the fact that he was trying to annoy people.
Not a big deal, but years later, I was telling my wife stories about this guy. When I told her about him constantly calling everyone he worked with a Yankee, my wife, now my ex, who was from New England, got pissed, almost like she was pissed at me, rather than him, and she haughtily explained to me, "You're from Montana. You're NO Yankee," and then with authority and pride, she added, "I'm a Yankee. I'm from New England." I always liked the way she needed to go on the record about the Yankee thing. But she obviously thought that guy from Texas was some sort of douchebag. :asmile:
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 08:55:46 AM
It would help reading, if your response was below the final "quote" that you include in your post.
Washington et al also betrayed the US ... in 1787. The Constitution Convention was a coup against Congress and the Articles of Confederation. Heart burn over this treason led eventually, directly to 1860. Took awhile, because both Rebs and Yankees agreed to concentrate on killing Natives and Mexicans.
Even Southerners hate Texans ... jealousy y'now ;-) And the point of the anecdote is ... that all Texans are aholes? Know quite a few aholes, and it is independent of region or political party.
Quote from: SGOS on August 17, 2017, 10:32:14 AM
I don't know how many of the British still hold bad feelings toward the US for escaping America's colonial status. There may be hard feelings, but I would think they are based on some of our present day behavior.
Likewise, I don't think the statue issue is a big concern for Yankees. I'm just going on my own personal feelings. The issue for me is civil rights, and that issue cuts across the Mason Dixon Line. I'm guessing the current struggle is between progressive Southerners and their Conservative cousins. I don't know this. It's just my guess.
I would suggest that small town/rural people are more conservative. Progressive or urban Southern folk, or transplants from Yankee-land are less conservative. And sorry, your civil rights ended on 9/11 ... they are gone. And no, the US is a British colony since 1913 ... get with the Fed program, colonial!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 10:50:49 AM
Well, I'm not British either and I don't know what they think about Washington. My guess is that he just subsumed in the general loss of colonies world-wide. And they are polite so long as it doesn't involve "football".
On the other hand I AM a Yankee (Boston born) and was forced to spend 3rd through 7th grade learning "Virginia History" in the Southern version where the North unfairly attacked the South in a "War of Aggression" and I am still annoyed about it today. I KNOW these idiots, LOL!
My childhood friends grew up KNOWING the South would rise again, they KNEW they were better than the local Black kids ( can't use the terms they used routinely). They still considered Black people "escaped slaves".
I could go on in more disgusting detail, but the day my family left Virginia for the (relative sanity on Maryland, I cheered!
Need I mention that I was the only kid from north of the Mason-Dixon line in an all white school in Petersburg in the late 50s?
But to me, Lee was a traitor and ever statue of him or his fellows should be melted down and dumped far out at sea.
On the other hand, I do have a nice collection of Minie-Balls from the actual trench lines...
It has always been all American to be a traitor ... this is why, minus an external existential threat (Soviets) the Union won't stand. Yankees and Rebs are both traitors. Yes, Robert E Lee was a traitor. So was Lincoln when he suspended Habeus Corpus.
Quote from: SGOS on August 17, 2017, 12:49:43 PM
I worked with a proud Texan one summer for the Forest Service in Montana. He was the classic example of what you don't admire. He claimed that he honestly believed blacks were mentally inferior, although I questioned if he really did believed that, which he insisted he did. He advocated slavery and tolerated Yankees, but took cheap shots whenever he could. He delighted calling everyone a Yankee, which didn't bother me, except for the fact that he was trying to annoy people.
Not a big deal, but years later, I was telling my wife stories about this guy. When I told her about him constantly calling everyone he worked with a Yankee, my wife, now my ex, who was from New England, got pissed, almost like she was pissed at me, rather than him, and she haughtily explained to me, "You're from Montana. You're NO Yankee," and then with authority and pride, she added, "I'm a Yankee. I'm from New England." I always liked the way she needed to go on the record about the Yankee thing. But she obviously thought that guy from Texas was some sort of douchebag. :asmile:
I understand the "family squabble" But I did a quick wikipedia search and am surprised to discover your wife had a good point!
Montanans actually rather liked the Confederacy and even named a new town "Varina" after Jefferson Davis' wife. Sorry about that.
But Montanans did serve honorably on the Union side as infantry but more notably Cavalry and Artilliesrts (yeah try to spell THAT after a few glasses of wine). In fact, I think people from Montana and the surrounding States had a lot to do with defeating JEB Stuart's prized cavalry... So tell her THAT!
I lived in Alabama from the 5th thru 8th grades. I remember the school kids asked me first thing if I was a rebel or a Yankee. I had no idea what they were talking about. So, they asked me where I was from. I told them 'Oregon'. They told me I was a Yankee then. I said 'Okay' and still did not know what they were talking about. I learned. I learned the real name of the Civil War was the war of Yankee aggression. This was the era of 'separate but equal ', so there was two systems. One for whites and one for coloreds. And they were labeled. Drinking fountains, bathrooms and anywhere else in the public domain, were labeled. I found this puzzling at first; and disgusting later. There were no 'blacks' then, only colored. So, Asian and Mexican were colored and had to use the colored areas. Hell, even the weather and insects sucked--big time! The best thing about Alabama was leaving it!
During this time frame, I learned to love baseball. And became a Yankee fan--why not, I was one, wasn't I?? As luck would have it the '57 WS (the first one I cared about) was between the Yankees and the Milwaukee Braves. Everybody was a Braves fan--or more accurately, a Yankee hater. And they lost the WS 4 games to 3, and my 'friends' did not let me forget. Next season the same two teams played and I was kept informed that last year the Yankees were beaten! Sure enough, they were losing 3 games to 1 and I was not living it down. In those days, we watched the WS on a TV on the school stage and were marched in each day to watch as a class. I was a captured audience. But as things worked out, the Yankees did something that had not been done up until then, came back to win the series by winning the last 3 games! And I did not let them ever forget! It is a wonder I lived thru that period. :)) So, for me, the Yankees were the underdogs and so was I--a match made in heaven.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 17, 2017, 02:19:09 PM
I lived in Alabama from the 5th thru 8th grades. I remember the school kids asked me first thing if I was a rebel or a Yankee. I had no idea what they were talking about. So, they asked me where I was from. I told them 'Oregon'. They told me I was a Yankee then. I said 'Okay' and still did not know what they were talking about. I learned. I learned the real name of the Civil War was the war of Yankee aggression. This was the era of 'separate but equal ', so there was two systems. One for whites and one for coloreds. And they were labeled. Drinking fountains, bathrooms and anywhere else in the public domain, were labeled. I found this puzzling at first; and disgusting later. There were no 'blacks' then, only colored. So, Asian and Mexican were colored and had to use the colored areas. Hell, even the weather and insects sucked--big time! The best thing about Alabama was leaving it!
During this time frame, I learned to love baseball. And became a Yankee fan--why not, I was one, wasn't I?? As luck would have it the '57 WS (the first one I cared about) was between the Yankees and the Milwaukee Braves. Everybody was a Braves fan--or more accurately, a Yankee hater. And they lost the WS 4 games to 3, and my 'friends' did not let me forget. Next season the same two teams played and I was kept informed that last year the Yankees were beaten! Sure enough, they were losing 3 games to 1 and I was not living it down. In those days, we watched the WS on a TV on the school stage and were marched in each day to watch as a class. I was a captured audience. But as things worked out, the Yankees did something that had not been done up until then, came back to win the series by winning the last 3 games! And I did not let them ever forget! It is a wonder I lived thru that period. :)) So, for me, the Yankees were the underdogs and so was I--a match made in heaven.
I understand. My father disliked several things about me (as a Boston born kid) I hated coffee, I hated fish, I hated skiing, and I hated the Red Sox... Stayed a Yankee fan until the Washington Nationals arrived inn 2005 or so.
And I think I listened to that WS with a little earphone up my sleeve from a small transistor radio (shaped as a Coca Cola machine)
Boy do I wish I had that radio NOW! I could retire! Oh, wait, I AM retired...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
I understand. My father disliked several things about me (as a Boston born kid) I hated coffee, I hated fish, I hated skiing, and I hated the Red Sox... Stayed a Yankee fan until the Washington Nationals arrived inn 2005 or so.
And I think I listened to that WS with a little earphone up my sleeve from a small transistor radio (shaped as a Coca Cola machine)
Boy do I wish I had that radio NOW! I could retire! Oh, wait, I AM retired...
Well, at least you still hate the Red Sox. Throw in a hatred for the Dodgers and you still have the core of a Yankee fan. Besides, one can be a fan of more than one team; because I live so close to them, I am also a fan of the SF Giants--until they play the Yanks, of course.
reporter on cnn just said the best way to think about Trump is "a gum-popping 12 year old".
Quote from: fencerider on August 17, 2017, 11:19:25 PM
reporter on cnn just said the best way to think about Trump is "a gum-popping 12 year old".
So ... hatred of youth, reverse ageism?
Quote from: Shiranu on August 17, 2017, 07:21:06 AM
Remember the good ol' days, about 100 years ago, when we were talking about Scaramucci, and Spicer... seems like a life time ago.
Yeah, and I heard on the news today that Bannon is out of the WH! It's a miracle! Praise Dog!
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Yeah, and I heard on the news today that Bannon is out of the WH! It's a miracle! Praise Dog!
He'll just fire the next one, too, and others. It's all he knows how to do, other than golfing. Firing and golfing are his forte.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 10:50:49 AM
On the other hand I AM a Yankee (Boston born) and was forced to spend 3rd through 7th grade learning "Virginia History" in the Southern version where the North unfairly attacked the South in a "War of Aggression"
Yeah, even though it should be obvious that it was the Confederates that fired "the shot heard 'round the world" on Ft. Sumter.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Yeah, and I heard on the news today that Bannon is out of the WH! It's a miracle! Praise Dog!
I don't think Michael Moore is taking his place, silly Commie ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 05:27:28 PM
Yeah, even though it should be obvious that it was the Confederates that fired "the shot heard 'round the world" on Ft. Sumter.
The "Shot heard round the world" was Lexington. Most native born Americans are to stupid to pass the "know America" test that immigrants who want citizenship, have to pass. And yes, the Southern hot heads were idiots, and portrayed as such in Gone With The Wind.
Real Americans are born killers ...
http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/whittemore.html
Quote from: Baruch on August 17, 2017, 01:17:15 AM
So if these geniuses run Hitler and Stalin, you will vote for one of them? Maybe the hard work of starting a new party, starts with you. This is normal in other countries, having more than 2 parties.
Hitler and Stalin didn't actually run to get into power. If there was ever a time a credible third party candidate could have run it would have been the past presidential election.
I wonder how much longer our form of government can last I fear the noble experiment is coming to an end...I underestimated how loathed Trump would be his presidency may hasten its demise.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
Yeah, and I heard on the news today that Bannon is out of the WH! It's a miracle! Praise Dog!
The White House is going to be a lot roomier without all those tiki torches cluttering up the place.
Quote from: Drew_2017 on August 18, 2017, 09:46:55 PM
Hitler and Stalin didn't actually run to get into power. If there was ever a time a credible third party candidate could have run it would have been the past presidential election.
I wonder how much longer our form of government can last I fear the noble experiment is coming to an end...I underestimated how loathed Trump would be his presidency may hasten its demise.
Yes, for almost 200 years now, the R and D have been nearly the death of us (R used to be Whig). But the rumors of demise seem to be hyperbolic. You can't kill something that is a zombie.
Quote from: Baruch on August 18, 2017, 07:55:03 PM
The "Shot heard round the world" was Lexington.
Oh, uh, yeah - I was just testing y'all!
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 18, 2017, 10:22:46 PM
The White House is going to be a lot roomier without all those tiki torches cluttering up the place.
Two huge egos like that just couldn't fit in there! Now there's more bigly room for Chump's.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 20, 2017, 12:17:48 AM
Oh, uh, yeah - I was just testing y'all!
QuoteThe phrase comes from the opening stanza of Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Concord Hymn" (1837) and refers to the first shot of the American Revolutionary War. According to Emerson's poem, this pivotal shot occurred at the North Bridge in Concord, Massachusetts, where the first British soldiers fell in the battles of Lexington and Concord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_heard_round_the_world
People overestimate the importance of White House "advisors". They come, they go...
I had never heard of Steve Bannon before he got involved in the Trump campaign, and now that he is out of the White House, most of us might not hear much of him ever again. As one TV talking head said recently, Sarah Palin is nothing but an annoying blog commentor these days.
Maybe Bannon will run against Chump in 2020...he'll have his own base by then.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 20, 2017, 12:24:25 PM
Maybe Bannon will run against Chump in 2020...he'll have his own base by then.
I would say I hope he tries. But that's how we got Trump. Never underestimate the power of voter stupidity...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/steve-bannon-go-nuclear-west-wing-democrats-may-start-tv-network/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/steve-bannon-go-nuclear-west-wing-democrats-may-start-tv-network/)
QuoteSteve Bannon, the ousted White House chief strategist, is reportedly considering starting a television network which would allow him to "go nuclear" as he settles vendettas with moderate advisers in the White House
QuoteMr Bannon's possible TV network would be intended as a rival to Fox News, the Rupert Murdoch-owned channel which has been supportive of Mr Trump, but which Mr Bannon now regards as too moderate
"Moderate" might be a bit of a stretch here, but it highlights Bannon's degraded mental state. When you're to the right of Fox News, you've officially gone off the deep end.
QuoteMr Bannon added: "I feel jacked up. I've got my hands back on my weapons. It's Bannon the Barbarian. I am definitely going to crush the opposition. I built a f****** machine at Breitbart. We're about to rev that machine up.â€
:rrotflmao:
With friends like these...
Fox News has moderate of late. Too much pussy grabbing. And Trump doesn't like the competition ;-)
And perhaps Bannon is to the Right of Fox News ... I would expect to. Fox News represents the Dick Cheney faction of the R party. Bannon is alt-right ... so perhaps Right-Anarchism rather than Deep State Fuckitude. Young people today, R and L ... seem closer to anarchism ... but then the hippies of the 60s were anything but organized.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 20, 2017, 12:24:25 PM
Maybe Bannon will run against Chump in 2020...he'll have his own base by then.
Don't worry, Elon Musk, Chelsea Clinton, that Facebook guy ... will be running on the D party side next time. Losers, all the way down.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 20, 2017, 02:08:12 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/steve-bannon-go-nuclear-west-wing-democrats-may-start-tv-network/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/steve-bannon-go-nuclear-west-wing-democrats-may-start-tv-network/)
"Moderate" might be a bit of a stretch here, but it highlights Bannon's degraded mental state. When you're to the right of Fox News, you've officially gone off the deep end.
:rrotflmao:
With friends like these...
I could hope he gets JACKED UP!