https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html
Doing from phone, so not going to quote the whole article, but...
Quote“After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military,†Mr. Trump wrote. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.â€
Is it still too early to judge trump? This is some Turkey, Iran, south America shit...
Will have to wait and see, if the John Birch Society gets him to extend it to banning Democrats from the military ;-(
Like I said before, I work in a military unit (as a civilian). I have no problem with gays or trannies. But I do have a problem with Democrats.
Still happy with the disastrous and self interested leadership of the D party by the Clintons and the Obamas?
Republicans gotta hate some group. They lost on women, Jews, black people and gay people, so they have moved their sights of hatred to trans people.
Quote from: Atheon on July 26, 2017, 12:16:13 PM
Republicans gotta hate some group. They lost on women, Jews, black people and gay people, so they have moved their sights of hatred to trans people.
This isn't new, and it used to be bi-partisan, before the Democrats went all Identity Politics. Doesn't make it right. I have to work on not hating Democrats for the last 12 months ... but I will get there ... they don't put their sans-culottes on two legs at a time anyway, nothing to fear.
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2017, 12:20:13 PM
This isn't new, and it used to be bi-partisan, before the Democrats went all Identity Politics.
Before the Civil Rights Act, more like. It's been 50 years since the bigots fled the Dems and joined the Pubes.
Quote from: Atheon on July 26, 2017, 12:30:45 PM
Before the Civil Rights Act, more like. It's been 50 years since the bigots fled the Dems and joined the Pubes.
Not black and white. Not all bigots were Dems or Repubs back then. Not all people changed parties. I started as Dem, after the Civil Rights Act (one of the reasons why I did accept the Dems). I have never changed to Repubs. I am not a bigot, never have been. That was my parent's generation. I do have a problem with "rebels without a cause". The rebels today are Left, not Right ... but they are still rebels. At least the Dems aren't trying to defend chattel slavery (just the other kinds). But that isn't saying much. Everyone supports wage and debt slavery.
I love how he says it's because of the financial costs... Doesn't the US military have the biggest budget of... literally anything on earth?
You can’t serve in the military if you have diabetes, either. Y can't expect them to accept someone who needs pills and shots weekly so they don’t threaten suicide.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/60e5002cf0bcf381664d09e482b3673b/tumblr_otpor5ognx1sdfej6o1_540.png)
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/e5f82540f38f2f7a37fa966f9e190802/tumblr_inline_otpop8cGtx1s6xs69_540.png)
This list ^ was made 4 years ago, during Obama's presidency..
"oops."
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 04:59:24 PM
You can’t serve in the military if you have diabetes, either. Y can't expect them to accept someone who needs pills and shots weekly so they don’t threaten suicide.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/60e5002cf0bcf381664d09e482b3673b/tumblr_otpor5ognx1sdfej6o1_540.png)
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/e5f82540f38f2f7a37fa966f9e190802/tumblr_inline_otpop8cGtx1s6xs69_540.png)
This list ^ was made 4 years ago, during Obama's presidency..
"oops."
Funny then that the right for them to openly serve was pushed by Obama.
Oops.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 05:19:27 PM
Funny then that the right for them to openly serve was pushed by Obama.
Oops.
source?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 04:59:24 PM
You can’t serve in the military if you have diabetes, either. Y can't expect them to accept someone who needs pills and shots weekly so they don’t threaten suicide.
This list ^ was made 4 years ago, during Obama's presidency..
"oops."
So all trans people are on medication?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 05:52:22 PM
source?
Well, let's do some basic math... 4 years ago, that list was made. In between then, a president deemed that part of that list is a violation of basic rights and changed it. The current president disagrees with him and repealed that change.
Now given that we know it wasn't the current president who gave them the right to be openly trans, we have to assume it was one of our presidents in the last 4 years. I wonder which one it was...
I was wondering where you had slummed off to... thought you might actually had reached a point where even you realised what a douche trump is. Sad that I was mistaken, and that you still use the same old, "But...But... Obama!" b.s.....
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 26, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
I love how he says it's because of the financial costs... Doesn't the US military have the biggest budget of... literally anything on earth?
Not an issue. Gen Mattis didn't want them in the service, so they aren't going to be. I just hope Gen Mattis doesn't mind gays.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 05:19:27 PM
Funny then that the right for them to openly serve was pushed by Obama.
Oops.
Trust a snake like Obama at your own peril.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 26, 2017, 06:03:07 PM
So all trans people are on medication?
The normal diagnosis requires medication, as far as military service protocol goes ... I have been thru the training this year. Have you? Surgery isn't required. There is a whole protocol to go thru .. which isn't applied to gay people. In civilian life there is also the same protocol ... RLT and hormones and maybe tranquilizers. You can't just declare yourself trans anywhere ... it is medically defined by diagnosis and treatment. Not so for gays.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 05:52:22 PM
source?
Most Dems hate the military, would F it any way they could. And Kissinger, he hates the military too, but then he served in WW II as an American-German immigrant infantryman. People who hate the military, who have never been in it our around it ... are just like bigots anywhere ... or phobic to bullets ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2017, 07:49:07 PM
The normal diagnosis requires medication, as far as military service protocol goes ... I have been thru the training this year. Have you? Surgery isn't required. There is a whole protocol to go thru .. which isn't applied to gay people. In civilian life there is also the same protocol ... RLT and hormones and maybe tranquilizers. You can't just declare yourself trans anywhere ... it is medically defined by diagnosis and treatment. Not so for gays.
What the actual fuck?
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2017, 07:46:34 PM
Trust a snake like Obama at your own peril.
Trusted him for 8 years, worked out pretty well.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 08:06:49 PM
Trusted him for 8 years, worked out pretty well.
Going to marry one of his daughters, or catch the Clinton harpie child on the rebound from her first marriage? ;-)) Guess you judge a book by the skin color.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 26, 2017, 07:58:43 PM
What the actual fuck?
So which military do you serve with, and how recent is all your medical staff training? I have been following the TG issue for decades my dear. Can't say why I have.
Now if you want to disagree with the medical community on standards of care ... please address yourself to Mayo or Johns Hopkins. This isn't a political issue. But like I said, I am fine with TG people in the military. They have secretly served for decades when it wasn't legal, same as gay service people.
QuotePeople who hate the military, who have never been in it our around it ... are just like bigots anywhere ... or phobic to bullets ;-)
Interesting that is in response to him questioning me, since I was raised by a veteran of WW2, Vietnam and Korea, who's grand-uncle served in WW2 and received the Silver Star and some fancy-smanzy French medal, who's adopted brother served in Desert Storm and was exposed to mustard gas, who's other brother spent 23 years in the navy, who's cousin is now 6 years into the Navy, and I spent basically the first half of my life living on Fort Sam Houston... all while considering joining the military myself (just not the American)...
For some reason, claiming I hate the military or have never been around it as the reason for why I think the way I do seems a tad bit presumptuous and a tadder bit wrong.
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2017, 08:07:59 PM
Going to marry one of his daughters, or catch the Clinton harpie child on the rebound from her first marriage? ;-)) Guess you judge a book by the skin color.
Domestically, which is where I happen to live, Obama was the greatest president in my generation and likely the best since the LBJ (again, speaking domestically) administration. Foreign, he was about as tame as we could get as well, which isn't enough, but it was better than the alternatives.
If "by judging a book by it's cover" is a reference to his track record and not his skin colour, then yes I do.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 08:11:17 PM
Interesting that is in response to him questioning me, since I was raised by a veteran of WW2, Vietnam and Korea, who's grand-uncle served in WW2 and received the Silver Star and some fancy-smanzy French medal, who's adopted brother served in Desert Storm and was exposed to mustard gas, who's other brother spent 23 years in the navy, who's cousin is now 6 years into the Navy, and I spent basically the first half of my life living on Fort Sam Houston... all while considering joining the military myself (just not the American)...
For some reason, claiming I hate the military or have never been around it as the reason for why I think I do seems a tad bit presumptuous and a tadder bit wrong.
Are you a Democrat? More likely People's Commissar ;-) So if I say bad things about Democrats, I am speaking only to you? Good for your relatives ... but that doesn't count, any more than the Queen is my cousin. Love your relatives ... in spite of their service, or because? Perhaps on another thread, you can explain pacifism or whatever you like ... in regards to this. But if Obama or Cheney loved the military people, they would have served, either in uniform or close to it. I hate war, but I have been close to the military for over 30 years now. Life is ironic like that.
If you haven't served that is fine, we don't all have to ... and it is certainly smarter than average to avoid bullets. I am also fine if the President hasn't served (civil rule over military) ... but Obama is a war monger, same as McCain. One didn't serve, the other did ... yet they ended up the same. Explain that for me. When a person like Reagan, Johnson, Nixon, or GW Bush have only served as a joke, color me unimpressed. Eisenhower, Kennedy, HR Bush and Carter did, and non-trivially. Trump, Clinton and Obama not at all. Guess which one I most respect? I like Ike, and for good reason.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 08:14:52 PM
Domestically, which is where I happen to live, Obama was the greatest president in my generation and likely the best since the LBJ (again, speaking domestically) administration. Foreign, he was about as tame as we could get as well, which isn't enough, but it was better than the alternatives.
If "by judging a book by it's cover" is a reference to his track record and not his skin colour, then yes I do.
We will have to disagree on Obama. Voted for him twice, because of the alternatives.
I suspect that Obama isn't pro gay or pro tran. He wants to "F" the military ... because they might have snickered behind his back, when he reviewed the troops. I suspect my colleagues do the same to Trump. We know who is real and who is fake.
depressed people can’t get in
blind people can’t get in
chronically ill people can’t get in
felons can get in
The military is not a playground, it is not political. It is a force. A group with 40% suicide and at least 2 co-morbid mental illnesses should not be in the most powerful military on earth.
but nah, fuck reality;
"muh transphobic drumpf!"
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 10:46:36 PMfelons can get in
Some felons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_waiver), you mean. A
very important qualifier. Without it, one gets the impression that they're willing to hire any felon, which is not the case.
I find it fascinating that you're arguing that Luke/Leslie can't get in because the military is/should be an elite institution that can't take just anyone (have you even met a high school military recruiter?), while simultaneously acknowledging that people with a very serious criminal background can get in. Under what logic is a guy who once made a terrorist threat a-okay but Luke/Leslie is absolutely unthinkable?
I was drafted. This idea that the military is 'elite' is dangerous--and bullshit. When I was drafted if you had a 'swinging dick' you got in. In those days, women were not in combat and not drafted. We don't need an elite military or a military that thinks it is not a part of the general country--that it is 'special' and not like the common man. It needs to be made up of all slices of society--poor, all ethnic groups, all genders, all everything. It needs to identify with the country and not feel it is apart from or different than the society it is supposed to protect. A special military could think it is so special that it needs to run things.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
depressed people can’t get in
blind people can’t get in
chronically ill people can’t get in
felons can get in
The military is not a playground, it is not political. It is a force. A group with 40% suicide and at least 2 co-morbid mental illnesses should not be in the most powerful military on earth.
depends on your point of view. Its a fact that we are less intelligent than our ancestors. If you're not smart enough or physically healthy enough you dont get in the military. So we send only healthy, smart people to fight (the U.S. is always in active combat zones). The smart ones die in battle and the dumb ones stay home with nothing to do except reproduce. Shouldn't we be doing the opposite? If you get a higher score than x you can't serve. If Trump hates a group of people that much it would make more sense to let them fight and get rid of a few of them.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 26, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
Doesn't the US military have the biggest budget of... literally anything on earth?
The biggest budget probably belongs to a banker like Chase Mahattan (there is an estimate of 65 trillion dollars of total assets in the world and the bankers have bets with each other in the derivatives market to the tune of 165 trillion dollars), but our military has a budget to somewhere around the combined budget of the next 10 countries in military spending.
Quote from: fencerider on July 27, 2017, 01:50:42 AM
The biggest budget probably belongs to a banker like Chase Mahattan (there is an estimate of 65 trillion dollars of total assets in the world and the bankers have bets with each other in the derivatives market to the tune of 165 trillion dollars), but our military has a budget to somewhere around the combined budget of the next 10 countries in military spending.
I was implying a spending budget. Not a bank account or amount of money withholding.
The point being though...
If transgender people want to serve in the military, the budget can handle whatever miniscule amount of transgender people that actually want to help this government armed forces, at this point
Not sure why they would, but that's not my decision.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2017, 11:28:55 PM
I was drafted. This idea that the military is 'elite' is dangerous--and bullshit. When I was drafted if you had a 'swinging dick' you got in. In those days, women were not in combat and not drafted. We don't need an elite military or a military that thinks it is not a part of the general country--that it is 'special' and not like the common man. It needs to be made up of all slices of society--poor, all ethnic groups, all genders, all everything. It needs to identify with the country and not feel it is apart from or different than the society it is supposed to protect. A special military could think it is so special that it needs to run things.
DoD has to compete with CIA and FBI to run country ... it can't just walk in. Bet they have dossiers on every public official, in or out of uniform.
Yes, Gen Patton was right ;-) But aren't you just dating yourself? Get a room! I would draft 100% of the boys and girls. If you wash out, lose your citizenship, ship you to Cuba for the free goodies (sarc). But we decided to let 18 years olds drink, vote, and not slave for Uncle Sam. I blame John Lennon. From what I hear from old guys, the military is better now than it was when it was doped up on patrol in the Mekong Delta. And I think the wags were right, if they had drafted all the college boys (including Cheney) then the war would have ended even sooner or not even started. But that isn't the MIC plan, the plan is perpetual war for MIC profit (and CIA drugs).
BTW - I don't see this "we are the master race" stuff in the military I have been in for over 20 years now. Very fine young people these, better than average ... with the usual percentage of screw ups. But if you want Gen McArthur fantasies ... then get out your corn cob pipe and smoke it. The last people who want a war are people in uniform. Without politicians, all civilians, there are no wars.
Quote from: Baruch on July 27, 2017, 06:45:41 AM
But aren't you just dating yourself? Get a room!
Yes, I am. Why just a couple of days ago, the three of us--me, myself and I--went to the movies. We had one hell of a time! Even shared the popcorn (after getting a second on the house to pay for it) and the coke (acola). Afterward, we did get a room. That was fun--almost always is. (dedicated to Hennie Youngman--there I go again, dating myself)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
depressed people can’t get in
blind people can’t get in
chronically ill people can’t get in
felons can get in
The military is not a playground, it is not political. It is a force. A group with 40% suicide and at least 2 co-morbid mental illnesses should not be in the most powerful military on earth.
but nah, fuck reality;
"muh transphobic drumpf!"
Oh, you want to talk about reality?
Do you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them. Tell me, do you believe it is something to do with transgendered, something in their coding, that make them this way? Do you believe they are mentally ill, and that it has nothing to do with what happens in the world?
So you want to sit here and talk about reality, while shoving your fingers in your ears and refusing to actually facing it; it's shit like this that normalizes violence against transgendered people, that tells people and states that it's okay to discriminate against them. This is an intentional step backwards to solving those numbers you posted, and you cheer it on, because you want to find any excuse you can to shovel Trump's crusty balls down your throat. Don't fucking talk to me about what is or isn't political when you will defend the most heartless of shit all for one more taste of your politician's bullshit.
And the military is elite force? Get the fuck out of here. I am 99% sure I have spent more time around the military, and they are anything but, "The best of the best, the brightest of the brightest.". I think you can ask anyone here who has served in the military if your right, and they will all tell you that you are full of shit and the military has just as many morons as the next job. That is not to say there aren't great military people, but we cant pretend like a metric fuck-load of idiots, bigots and unfits join as well.
When you are advocating normalizing hatred and discrimination all to justify your president, and to stick it to the other guy, it might be time to take a good, hard look in the mirror at what you have become.
Quote from: Baruch on July 27, 2017, 06:45:41 AM
BTW - I don't see this "we are the master race" stuff in the military I have been in for over 20 years now. Very fine young people these, better than average ... with the usual percentage of screw ups. But if you want Gen McArthur fantasies ... then get out your corn cob pipe and smoke it. The last people who want a war are people in uniform. Without politicians, all civilians, there are no wars.
I served in the regular army, the active army reserve and national guard, and I never saw evidence of belief in the 'master race' stuff, either. But I was not referring to that, nor to the average soldier, either. And I agree that the average grunt does not want war or to go to war. What I was referring to was the senior generals. They are the ones who set the tone and the policy for those under them--and if they get it in their minds that the military is the best of the best, that they should be running things and the military in general thinks so, then things could get ugly. We don't need a military coup here. And remember the senior generals don't have to go to combat, but can pull the strings from behind the curtin.
As for DoD having intel on all of us--yes they do. They battle all the other intel gathering agencies the US has for it--and even battle among themselves for it. I knew that from experience in the Military Intelligence (Army) unit I was in with the regular Army. My detachment had dozens and dozens of 4 drawer files filled with gathered intel on, well, you name it. And we fought and schemed how to get more than the Navy, Air Force, NSA, FBI, and other Army detachments had; and all of that crap was forwarded up channels. This was before the use of computers, so I can only imagine how much they have now.
Quote"The Pentagon spends 5 times more on Viagra than it does on transition-related care."
Well then.
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2017, 08:11:07 PM
So which military do you serve with, and how recent is all your medical staff training? I have been following the TG issue for decades my dear. Can't say why I have.
Now if you want to disagree with the medical community on standards of care ... please address yourself to Mayo or Johns Hopkins. This isn't a political issue. But like I said, I am fine with TG people in the military. They have secretly served for decades when it wasn't legal, same as gay service people.
Why the fuck are you talking to me like this? Did I ever claim knowledge of or service in the military? What the fuck are you talking about?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 26, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
Doesn't the US military have the biggest budget of... literally anything on earth?
It might have during peak spending on the wars in the middle east but not any more. At $938 billion Social Security alone is almost 35% more than the $696 billion DoD budget (including the separate line item for overseas contingency funding) for FY 2016. Social Security is also project to grow much faster than the DoD budget. By 2025 it will be nearly double DoD funding.
Currently the individual line items for Medicare and Medicaid are smaller than the DoD budget, but the two of them together exceed the DoD budget by almost 40%. They are projected to grow even faster than Social Security. Current projections have Medicare spending exceeding DoD spending in 2021. By then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid together are expected to exceed DoD spending by more than 320%.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 05:52:22 PM
source?
Right here (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40740788).
Also, as that article states, the Pentagon is saying there is no ban until they get formal advice from Asshole, not just a tweet.
It also rather stands to reason that being allowed to serve openly would alleviate at least one stressor leading to clinical depression. So that doesn't stand either. It's like the old no-gays policy that barred homosexuals from serving in the military because they were allegedly a security risk -- and why were they a security risk? Because they were barred and if they sneaked in and served anyway, they'd be potentially subject to blackmail because they were barred. That's the kind of circular reasoning that would befuddle the Great Wyrm Ouroboros..
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 26, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
depressed people can’t get in
Didn't know that. Good news for me!
Looks like the military is saying No to Trump.
(Since when did Trump's tweets become decrees? I think not.)
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029?cmpid=sf
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2017, 12:04:57 PM
“After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military,†Mr. Trump wrote. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.â€
Translation: "Please stop talking about Russia!"
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 08:57:31 AM
Oh, you want to talk about reality?
Do you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them. Tell me, do you believe it is something to do with transgendered, something in their coding, that make them this way? Do you believe they are mentally ill, and that it has nothing to do with what happens in the world?
So you want to sit here and talk about reality, while shoving your fingers in your ears and refusing to actually facing it; it's shit like this that normalizes violence against transgendered people, that tells people and states that it's okay to discriminate against them. This is an intentional step backwards to solving those numbers you posted, and you cheer it on, because you want to find any excuse you can to shovel Trump's crusty balls down your throat. Don't fucking talk to me about what is or isn't political when you will defend the most heartless of shit all for one more taste of your politician's bullshit.
And the military is elite force? Get the fuck out of here. I am 99% sure I have spent more time around the military, and they are anything but, "The best of the best, the brightest of the brightest.". I think you can ask anyone here who has served in the military if your right, and they will all tell you that you are full of shit and the military has just as many morons as the next job. That is not to say there aren't great military people, but we cant pretend like a metric fuck-load of idiots, bigots and unfits join as well.
When you are advocating normalizing hatred and discrimination all to justify your president, and to stick it to the other guy, it might be time to take a good, hard look in the mirror at what you have become.
You are what you are. You talk about smoking like an ex-smoker ;-) Sorry, you just contradicted your earlier post ... on an emotional level. But that is OK.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 27, 2017, 10:25:30 AM
Why the fuck are you talking to me like this? Did I ever claim knowledge of or service in the military? What the fuck are you talking about?
Your posts are a bit cryptic. If I misunderstood you, I apologize of course.
Post removed because... just... wow.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 08:57:31 AMDo you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them.
Also, I'd like to point out that another group with an elevated rate of suicide (for similar reasons) is gay people, who can legally serve in the military. If we took the argument that a group with an elevated rate of suicide can't serve in the military, then we'd have to exclude gays as well as trans people.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 27, 2017, 11:46:58 PM
Also, I'd like to point out that another group with an elevated rate of suicide (for similar reasons) is gay people, who can legally serve in the military. If we took the argument that a group with an elevated rate of suicide can't serve in the military, then we'd have to exclude gays as well as trans people.
Gays in the military (I know some personally) are getting additional mental health evaluation and counseling, because suicide is a big issue. But the major cause of suicide isn't alternative sexuality or gender .. it is frequent deployments to Afghanistan and elsewhere. PTSD is cumulative and fatal. Bad enough to go "in country" even one time. With "perpetual war" doctrine, people serving can't see the end of the tunnel, except as a train coming the wrong way.
I do believe that transgender people are mentally unstable.
Come to think of it, when did this become an issue?
It is an issue for the left because they are yet another "oppressed group" to virtue signal for.
The Muslim world divides the world into believers and unbelievers.
The Left divides the world into oppressors and oppressed. Same mentality.
Evil Trump oppressing, discriminating yet another group of people. When will it stop?!
Truth be told, nobody gives a rat’s rectum about transgendered people, but isn’t this a golden opportunity to get a dig at the POTUS?
Are the transgender people being used as a political football?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtwPdwuV1E
Now I don't know about the rest of the left but one reason people are pissed is because Trump banned a group of people based on their gender from the military for religious and political reasons which is morally wrong. To say transgenders can't fight for their country is like saying atheist can't run for political office or be in a courtroom. We as a people of U.S.A. are growing and we can't keep growing if a bunch of people are standing in the way because their ignorance or religion.
No, No, No, its all a distraction. Trump wants you to stop thinking about his questionable tax claims and his Russian connections.
STOP paying attention to his tweets. He is gaming you.
FOCUS!
Yet another humanoid hermaphrodite succumbs to cultural Marxist indoctrination.
Parent fights to omit gender on B.C. child's birth certificate (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/parent-fights-to-omit-gender-on-b-c-child-s-birth-certificate-1.4186221)
QuoteA parent in B.C.'s Slocan Valley is fighting to omit their child's sex on their birth certificate as part of a broader effort to keep gender from being included on government documents.
Kori Doty gave birth to Searyl Atli at a friend's home last November. Doty, a non-binary trans parent who doesn't identify as either male or female, (and prefers to use the pronoun they), wants to keep Searyl's gender off all official records.
"I'm raising Searyl in such a way that until they have the sense of self and command of vocabulary to tell me who they are, I'm recognizing them as a baby and trying to give them all the love and support to be the most whole person that they can be outside of the restrictions that come with the boy box and the girl box," Doty said.
Dear me.
Quote"I want my kid to have all of the space to be the most whole and complete person that they can be," Doty said.
Did I just find another oppressed group to worry about?
That is an argument I willingly leave to the next generation. I find the debate a bit confusing and uncertain. My thoughts suggest you are the gender you are physically, but I understand (with some difficulty) there could be a mind/body argument.
I actually can't think of a human question harder to understand externally by those not having the internal debate.
A mind body argument points to mental instability. Normalising mental disfunction?
Let’s not make it a political issue.
Just when I think you can't be any more deplorable of human being, you step up to the plate and hit another homer of douchebaggery.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 28, 2017, 04:20:15 AM
Just when I think you can't be any more deplorable of human being, you step up to the plate and hit another homer of douchebaggery.
Let's say that I try to be a modern person. Let's say I think about issues as best I can. Let's say that some of them confuse me.
I don't understand transgender issues. Intellectually, yes. But internally, really no. I'm not saying they aren't real. I'm just saying that I don't understand it. That is probably a way I cannot separate yet. Your body is what you are.
I hope you all know me well enough by now to know I'm not cruel or stupid. But in this, I just don't understand.
Critical theory: (wikipedia)
QuoteIn sociology and political philosophy, the term critical theory describes the neo-Marxist philosophy of the Frankfurt School, which was developed in Germany in the 1930s. Frankfurt theorists drew on the critical methods of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud. Critical theory maintains that ideology is the principal obstacle to human liberation.[3] Critical theory was established as a school of thought primarily by five Frankfurt School theoreticians: Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer, Walter Benjamin, and Erich Fromm. Modern critical theory has additionally been influenced by György Lukács and Antonio Gramsci, as well as the second generation Frankfurt School scholars, notably Jürgen Habermas. In Habermas's work, critical theory transcended its theoretical roots in German idealism, and progressed closer to American pragmatism. Concern for social "base and superstructure" is one of the remaining Marxist philosophical concepts in much of the contemporary critical theory.[4]
Taking anything, and using it, manipulating it to spread discord, to destabilize western culture.
The class warfare did’t work. This will. It does. See where we are now.
On the way to completely dismantle western civilisation, to be replaced by what?
What is the agenda?
One thing is certain. Whatever it will be, You won’t like it.
Quote from: pr126 on July 28, 2017, 04:58:30 AM
Critical theory: (wikipedia)
Taking anything, and using it, manipulating it to spread discord, to destabilize western culture.
The class warfare did’t work. This will. It does. See where we are now.
On the way to completely dismantle western civilisation, to be replaced by what?
What is the agenda?
One thing is certain. Whatever it will be, You won’t like it.
Vaguely interesting, but it doesn't apply to the topic. As usual...
QuoteI hope you all know me well enough by now to know I'm not cruel or stupid. But in this, I just don't understand.
Sorry, aimed at pr not you.
QuoteVaguely interesting, but it doesn't apply to the topic. As usual...
It does apply to the topic.
Transgenderism, which was not an issue until recently now has become a political football created and promoted by the neomarxist left to further their agenda.
Just one of the multitude of issues such as third wave feminism, gender issues, the list is too long to name them all.
Your minds are infected with a virus, just as destructive as any religion. Just as intolerant, just as divisive.
Ditched religion, and found a new mind virus to replace it.
The results are the same. Obedience to a different idol.
Critical thinking is now obsolete.
You cannot notice it, because that is all you ever learned. Just like a religion in fact.
I guess i have as much success telling you this as you telling the religious that their idols are fake.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 28, 2017, 04:34:41 AM
Let's say that I try to be a modern person. Let's say I think about issues as best I can. Let's say that some of them confuse me.
I don't understand transgender issues. Intellectually, yes. But internally, really no. I'm not saying they aren't real. I'm just saying that I don't understand it. That is probably a way I cannot separate yet. Your body is what you are.
I hope you all know me well enough by now to know I'm not cruel or stupid. But in this, I just don't understand.
You are honest at least and you think on your own. And yes, you aren't cruel or stupid. To understand alcoholism, one has to be one. To understand gays, you have to be one. Same with trannies. Intellectuals are idiot savant know it alls. So it isn't a bad thing, to not understand something intellectually. If you do, it is word masturbation only. This is why our professors are such a mess. You can know something, but not understand it. The best most of us can do, is know about trannies.
Ex religious understand religion ... the few who have never been religious ... can't. Not that they are missing anything ;-) The problem for religious trolls who come here, as is often stated, is that almost everyone here is knowledgable about religion, and most of us understand it.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 28, 2017, 05:03:31 AM
Vaguely interesting, but it doesn't apply to the topic. As usual...
Pr126 has to always return to the well of his paranoia. Conspiracy isn't as reasonable an explanation for me as ... ape people are stupid. Napoleon agrees ... "stupidity is a more ready explanation than malice".
A bit off topic, but this thread seemed like it was nearing conclusion. I listed to NPR segment yesterday that said the Pakistan is now dealing with a controversy over Transsexuals. This seems so weird to me that I've got to be repeating this with errors. Apparently, Pakistan recognizes several different types of gender lifestyles. I don't think they used the word homosexual, but I assume they are included in the classification, but then I tuned in a bit late.
Apparently, individuals with varying gender dispositions are not treated as pariahs in Pakistan culture, they are classified as "Class Three Genders," not to be confused with "third class citizens." In fact, transsexuals are believed to have mystical abilities, and are revered, and paid to participate in weddings, births, and funerals where they perform special blessings in the ceremonies. There is also a cultural practice where people are allowed to declare alternative genders, and then are assigned to a guru as an apprentice, and he pays the guru for his guidance monthly for the rest of his life.
The current controversy stems from a new movement in the transsexual community to avoid the guru crap, and just be who they are. Obviously, this doesn't sit well with the gurus, who are now refusing to recognize the new "Class Three Genders" who refuse to participate in the current system. I don't think the government has weighed in on the controversy, if they indeed have the power to settle the issue.
According to the person being interviewed a Class Three Gender person walking down the street would not raise an eyebrow in Pakistani culture, nor do such orientations cause the cultural problems they do in the US or other western cultures. I've got to have this wrong. Perhaps it only applies to cross dressers or cross genders, and not to gays in general. In addition, just on a personal note, people in western culture are now identifying themselves in so many different ways, usually connected under the umbrella of LGBT, that I'm losing track of who's who and who's doing what.
QuoteApparently, individuals with varying gender dispositions are not treated as pariahs in Pakistan culture, they are classified as "Class Three Genders," not to be confused with "third class citizens." In fact, transsexuals are believed to have mystical abilities, and are revered, and paid to participate in weddings, births, and funerals where they perform special blessings in the ceremonies. There is also a cultural practice where people are allowed to declare alternative genders, and then are assigned to a guru as an apprentice, and he pays the guru for his guidance monthly for the rest of his life.
In India they are called Hijra; I don't know if the term changes across the border.
There are alot of issues within the community and against the community, but the "nice" thing is they at least are recognized as a separate gender, with political and social representation. This is not just in India and Pakistan, either... it spreads across South-East Asia where there is generally at least 3 genders, if not sometimes a few more. You can also find that belief system in Native American cultures and in Africa as well. This idea of there only being two genders is not infact the global norm.
You don't have anything wrong; Hijra and other third-genders are generally treated like human beings in the South-East and not anything shocking. It's one of those awkward moments when the "barbarians" are more civilized than the "civilized".
All that being said though, being a third-gender in this places still really, really sucks. They are, as here, often the target of violence and repression and generally live in poverty (and often are sex workers). But whereas a certain poster or two here might see that as evidence that there is something "wrong" with them... I just cant take such a heartless and douche-bagged approach. I love India, but I am not going to act like Indian culture is the pinnacle of treating people fairly, and if we want to look at it that way then we can also argue that the Dalit (less derogatory term for "untouchables") are genetically inferiour because of their poverty and crime rates as well. It's conflating environment with nature.
If you can do the job, you should get the job...
The "third sex" cultural phenomenon in India has spread over the centuries to Southeast Asia, and it is why "ladyboys" are a part of mainstream culture in Thailand.
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
Sex is dirty, filthy, and evil. Except if you're married. Then it has God's blessing. Well, kind of a reluctant blessing, but it's not an automatic ticket to the fires of Hell.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
This was just on Christian Radio today ... are you defecting to theism? ;-)
There are only two human motivations ... food and sex. A food fight at an orgy is the ideal human activity ;-))
It is all just a Trump distraction from the important issues. When his finances are questioned, he horks up transgender issues. When he is challenged on staff issues, he points to old Hillary emails. When Russian influences are raised, he insults immigrants.
Nothing Trump ever says is about actual issues and people who focus on the daily tweet are being lead astray.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
Because GAAAWWWWDDD hates sex. The penis and vagina were created by the devil!
Quote from: Atheon on August 03, 2017, 04:21:25 AM
Because GAAAWWWWDDD hates sex. The penis and vagina were created by the devil!
In Jewish Kabbalah, sex is obligatory, every Friday night, because G-d and his Shekhinah get it on every Friday night.
*bans trans people on the basis of medical costs*
*leads a country that recently fought a $13,000,000,000,000 war*
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 03, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
*bans trans people on the basis of medical costs*
*leads a country that recently fought a $13,000,000,000,000 war*
Someone on TV today said the transgender medical support costs were "less than a 1/10 of 100th of a percent" (I hope I got that right) of their budget. An opposing talking head did not deny it.
I am late to the party, but what the hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uynApZJp1mk
Blacks can't be good soldiers.
Filipinos can't be good soldiers.
Women can't be good soldiers.
Gays can't be good soldiers.
Trans can't be good soldiers.
Watch this space.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 04, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Blacks can't be good soldiers.
Filipinos can't be good soldiers.
Women can't be good soldiers.
Gays can't be good soldiers.
Trans can't be good soldiers.
Watch this space.
Mexicans can't be good soldiers
Italians can't be good soldiers
French can't be good soldiers
What's the worlds smallest book? The book of Italian war heroes.
Don't know if I want to watch this space or not.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 04, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Blacks can't be good soldiers.
Filipinos can't be good soldiers.
Women can't be good soldiers.
Gays can't be good soldiers.
Trans can't be good soldiers.
Watch this space.
White straight males can't be good soldiers ... SJWs are pacifists anyway.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 04, 2017, 05:43:32 PM
Mexicans can't be good soldiers
Italians can't be good soldiers
French can't be good soldiers
What's the worlds smallest book? The book of Italian war heroes.
Don't know if I want to watch this space or not.
Read about Garibaldi and the consolidation of Italy...
Now when ATHEISTS are considered good citizens by someone, I will support THAT!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 03:09:31 AM
Read about Garibaldi and the consolidation of Italy...
Now when ATHEISTS are considered good citizens by someone, I will support THAT!
Red China, Soviet Union ...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 03:09:31 AM
Read about Garibaldi and the consolidation of Italy...
Come on, Cavebear. Surely you remember about 50ish yrs. or so ago when a bunch of 'Why does.............' jokes (well, they were called that) made the rounds.
---Why do Poles (or Swedes, French, Italians, Mexicans, whoever) wear bowling shirts? Because they dress up for weddings.
--What is the worlds smallest book? The book of Italian (French, Mexican, whoever) war heroes.
--Why do fly's have wings?? To beat _______to the trash cans.
And on and on.
About that time elephant jokes were in, as well.
--Why do elephants wear red nail polish? To hide in strawberry patches.
--Why do elephants lay on their back with all for legs up? To trip blackbirds.
--Why do elephants have big balls? Because they like to dance.
--Why do elephants wear springs on their feet? To bounce through trees raping monkeys.
What is the worst sound a monkey can hear? Sproooong, sprooong!
You have to remember those were from the memory of a tasteless, male teen.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 06, 2017, 09:51:09 AM
Come on, Cavebear. Surely you remember about 50ish yrs. or so ago when a bunch of 'Why does.............' jokes (well, they were called that) made the rounds.
---Why do Poles (or Swedes, French, Italians, Mexicans, whoever) wear bowling shirts? Because they dress up for weddings.
--What is the worlds smallest book? The book of Italian (French, Mexican, whoever) war heroes.
--Why do fly's have wings?? To beat _______to the trash cans.
And on and on.
About that time elephant jokes were in, as well.
--Why do elephants wear red nail polish? To hide in strawberry patches.
--Why do elephants lay on their back with all for legs up? To trip blackbirds.
--Why do elephants have big balls? Because they like to dance.
--Why do elephants wear springs on their feet? To bounce through trees raping monkeys.
What is the worst sound a monkey can hear? Sproooong, sprooong!
You have to remember those were from the memory of a tasteless, male teen.
You had a book of elephant jokes more adult than mine. *koff, koff* and LOL!
I suppose, being a History minor and Political Science major, I had a slight more kindness toward people not considered skilled at military events than some. And one of the early books I read was about Garibaldi uniting Italy. They fought hard pitched battles. And Napoleon was Italian (Corsican) and rose above other skilled soldiers there.
And not saying that from any heritage. I'm pretty much Germanic, French and British. No love lost on Napoleon... LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 11:32:27 AM
You had a book of elephant jokes more adult than mine. *koff, koff* and LOL!
I suppose, being a History minor and Political Science major, I had a slight more kindness toward people not considered skilled at military events than some. And one of the early books I read was about Garibaldi uniting Italy. They fought hard pitched battles. And Napoleon was Italian (Corsican) and rose above other skilled soldiers there.
And not saying that from any heritage. I'm pretty much Germanic, French and British. No love lost on Napoleon... LOL!
Without a doubt, Garibaldi was a force. My major was history and minor was Bus. Ed. Love history.
Anyway, do you remember the 'Bob" jokes?
What do you call an armless and legless man in a swimming pool? Bob
What do you call an armless, legless man on the wall? Art
What do you call an armless, legless man on the porch? Matt
Back in those days, the tasteless the better!
And yeah, the elephant jokes could get quite tasteless, tasteless!!
Napoleone ... as he was originally called, was from Italians in Naples, think Neapolitan Mafia. The Corsicans have their own fierce banditi.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 06, 2017, 11:51:33 AM
Without a doubt, Garibaldi was a force. My major was history and minor was Bus. Ed. Love history.
Anyway, do you remember the 'Bob" jokes?
What do you call an armless and legless man in a swimming pool? Bob
What do you call an armless, legless man on the wall? Art
What do you call an armless, legless man on the porch? Matt
Back in those days, the tasteless the better!
And yeah, the elephant jokes could get quite tasteless, tasteless!!
Oh yeah, those old tasteless jokes still crack me up! You have to have a certain willingness to ignore the cruelty of jokes. They are, by definition, cruel to someone. Even the best joke of all time insulted Sherlock Holmes, in a way. I think that's why I enjoy puns the most. As the rental knitter said: "Leased crewel".