Creepy.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/politics/donald-trump-boy-scouts-speech/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/politics/donald-trump-boy-scouts-speech/index.html)
Quote1. "Boy, you have a lot of people here. The press will say it's about 200 people. It looks like about 45,000 people. You set a record today. You set a record."
The Charleston Gazette estimated 40,000 people in the crowd -- which is a lot! Not sure there is a "record" for attendance at a Boy Scout Jamboree. Also worth noting from the Gazette: "Press staff handling the event did not allow local media to bring film equipment into the amphitheater."
7. "He better get them. Oh, he better -- otherwise, I'll say, 'Tom, you're fired.' I'll get somebody."
This "joke" was directed at Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price who was, awkwardly, standing on stage next to Trump. It came amid Trump's public effort to force Sessions to resign and less than a week after Trump threatened Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nevada, on health care.
10. "By the way, what do you think the chances are that this incredible, massive crowd, record-setting is going to be shown on television tonight? One percent or zero?"
As Trump was saying this, CNN was showing shots of the crowd. Also, that crowd was "massive" and "record setting."
19. "Do we remember that date? Was that a beautiful date? What a date."
He's talking about Election Day 2016. Because of course he is.
20. "But do you remember that incredible night with the maps and the Republicans are red and the Democrats are blue, and that map was so red, it was unbelievable, and they didn't know what to say?"
ICYMI: Donald Trump won the 2016 election, winning 304 out of a possible 538 electoral votes. That election was 260 days ago.
26. "And by the way, under the Trump administration, you'll be saying 'Merry Christmas' again when you go shopping. Believe me. 'Merry Christmas.'"
Trump gave this speech on July 24.
27. "They've been downplaying that little, beautiful phrase. You're going to be saying 'Merry Christmas' again, folks."
First of all, "they." Second of all, Merry damn Christmas.
For some alternative fun, see what Trump fans thought of the speech...
On the same week that a Republican from Texas is saying he wishes he could shoot and kill women Democrats who disagreed with him, and a guy from Houston starts shipping lard-covered Qu'rans to mosques and private residences... and faces no consequences from it. Jesus christ, America society, what are you doing?
Quote from: Shiranu on July 25, 2017, 05:50:54 PM
Jesus christ, America society, what are you doing?
Forest Gump (his mama, really)--Stupid is as stupid does. There is no escaping the fact that we are now being run by the stupid.
Sorry, I don't consider the Clintons, Bushes nor the Cheneys to be smart people either.
However ... the last Obama CIA director, John Brennan, called for a coup against President Trump today (if he does what Brennan doesn't want him to do). Just like a Dem ... Jefferson Davis all the way down. Reminds me of the last time someone tried to prevent the inauguration of a President, some D folk tried to intercept Mr Lincoln in a train station in Baltimore, fortunately the Pinkertons were on the case.
Quote20. "But do you remember that incredible night with the maps and the Republicans are red and the Democrats are blue, and that map was so red, it was unbelievable, and they didn't know what to say?"
Umm...the map is always super red because vast stretches of rural land with not a whole lot of people typically go Republican while urban areas, which are comparatively tiny, typically go Democrat.
Quote6. "We're doing a lot with energy."
???
It was frighteningly reminiscent of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Y9P65fGAE&t=144s
A lot of New Soviet Men around here ... must be OK, because they don't like Hitler. What is the name of that meme ... when every argument devolves to Hitler?
Actually, most around here would hate the Boy Scouts anyway (and the Guides in GB). They should, both are forms of early 20th century youth fascism. The Hitler Youth were the hyper-political German version ... but the Guides were created to support the British Empire, as the Boy Scouts were created to support the American Empire.
The non-rural country ... will be glass parking lots shortly. Please keep your nuclear fallout to your SJW selves.
I've found the Boy Scouts too regimented and military-esque for my liking, plus they're too religious and anti-gay (though they've been improving lately in the latter department).
My dad was a Boy Scout when he was a kid, but for some reason he didn't enroll me in them. Instead, he enrolled me in some local alternative scouting group that was more focused on practical outdoorsmanship and nature education (camping, nature hikes, botany lessons, etc.) than on "traditional values".
I was in the Boy Scouts because I wanted to go camping and hiking, but I could do way more camping and outdoors stuff on my own, and I didn't have to wait all year for one outdoor activity. I quit the scouts because they were simply not able to keep up with me. Way back when, the Boy Scouts were the model of American Youth. They were good clean wholesome God fearing youngsters learning moral values. Of course the values of my youth were mostly based on hypocrisy and bigotry. But scouting seemed like a good idea.
I really don't know what scouting is about today, having lost interest years ago. I watched snippets of Trumps speech, and I thought it was offensive, political, and Trumpish, suggesting the appropriateness of drinking, cocktails, and life in the fast lane making it with chicks. Really?? Just "saying it like it is," I guess. Supposedly, Scouting is politically neutral. In fact, I think it's illegal for the organization to take a politically partisan stand. Which makes it an ideal propaganda target for Trump to pedal a political ideology. If the BSA were to oppose partisan propaganda, the would be in violation, yet a politician is free to pedal his bullshit to the Boy Scouts without being held accountable.
Quote from: SGOS on July 26, 2017, 08:08:14 AM
I was in the Boy Scouts because I wanted to go camping and hiking, but I could do way more camping and outdoors stuff on my own, and I didn't have to wait all year for one outdoor activity. I quit the scouts because they were simply not able to keep up with me. Way back when, the Boy Scouts were the model of American Youth. They were good clean wholesome God fearing youngsters learning moral values. Of course the values of my youth were mostly based on hypocrisy and bigotry. But scouting seemed like a good idea.
I really don't know what scouting is about today, having lost interest years ago. I watched snippets of Trumps speech, and I thought it was offensive, political, and Trumpish, suggesting the appropriateness of drinking, cocktails, and life in the fast lane making it with chicks. Really?? Just "saying it like it is," I guess. Supposedly, Scouting is politically neutral. In fact, I think it's illegal for the organization to take a politically partisan stand. Which makes it an ideal propaganda target for Trump to pedal a political ideology. If the BSA were to oppose partisan propaganda, the would be in violation, yet a politician is free to pedal his bullshit to the Boy Scouts without being held accountable.
Voters have to hold politicians accountable .. or not. At least Trump didn't try to kiss all the babies ;-)
Quote from: Atheon on July 26, 2017, 07:21:47 AM
I've found the Boy Scouts too regimented and military-esque for my liking, plus they're too religious and anti-gay (though they've been improving lately in the latter department).
My dad was a Boy Scout when he was a kid, but for some reason he didn't enroll me in them. Instead, he enrolled me in some local alternative scouting group that was more focused on practical outdoorsmanship and nature education (camping, nature hikes, botany lessons, etc.) than on "traditional values".
Heck, I was a Boy Scout m'self.
Until our scout leader left town under unclear circumstances.
Quote from: trdsf on July 26, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
Heck, I was a Boy Scout m'self.
Until our scout leader left town under unclear circumstances.
The usual sin is boy-girl not boy-boy. People are far to paranoid about gays. I suspect most Catholic priests haven't diddled boys ... the girls are just as available, and more attractive to most priests.
Trump is still bragging about his inaugaration? Hey Nimrod!!! If there really as many people there as you say there was, it's because they were expecting you to do something. So shut-up and get to work.
I wonder if the boy scouts got the balls to send him a letter to tell him how inappropriate his speech was.
Quote from: fencerider on July 27, 2017, 02:01:34 AM
Trump is still bragging about his inaugaration? Hey Nimrod!!! If there really as many people there as you say there was, it's because they were expecting you to do something. So shut-up and get to work.
I wonder if the boy scouts got the balls to send him a letter to tell him how inappropriate his speech was.
There is probably a merit badge he earned for giving a speech at the Jamboree ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on July 27, 2017, 06:53:23 AM
There is probably a merit badge he earned for giving a speech at the Jamboree ;-)
I forgot about merit badges and special pins like 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class. The real scout nerds accumulated merit badges, and I vaguely remember something about three arrow point badges that designated some very special status. Near the end of the Scout Achievement hierarchy, you could eventually ascend to the esteemed level of Eagle Scout. By then, you had so many decorations you actually had to buy a special sash worn diagonally across your chest. Eagle Scouts were rare, like Generals or Admirals. I only knew one, a distant acquaintance that my father instructed me to respect with awe. When he put on his uniform with all the high level accessories, he looked like Baron Von Hoffschloffer at an important Affair of State.
There was one little thing about scouting that I cherished. In retrospect it was not special, but as a 12 year old, it meant something special to me. It was the Boy Scout Handbook, required of every Scout, just as every Christian needs his own Bible. Everything about scouting was in the Handbook, the pledges, salute and secret handshake, the codes of honor, etc. Most seemed unimportant, but much of it was devoted to outdoor skills, fire building, tracking, hiding. There were diagrams of little campfire set ups made from forked sticks to hold the little pot from your Boy Scout Mess Kit. Clever hints thought up by some would be backwoodsman in a special office of the Boy Scouts of America Headquarters, probably in a special wing of the Pentagon. Actually, I can't remember where Headquarters was.
Much of it is probably obsolete now. I don't think it would be environmentally friendly to built actual campfires with the modern availability of gas powered camp stoves. Constructing soft beds of pine boughs to spread your sleeping bag out on destroys campsites, and hopefully, the manual doesn't include any drawings of the camp hatchet, which had secretly inspired every Boy Scout to chop down a tree when the Scout Master was in the outhouse. But the Boy Scout handbook was my "go to" reference when I wanted to fantasize about going hiking and camping.
Quote from: fencerider on July 27, 2017, 02:01:34 AM
Trump is still bragging about his inaugaration? Hey Nimrod!!! If there really as many people there as you say there was, it's because they were expecting you to do something. So shut-up and get to work.
I wonder if the boy scouts got the balls to send him a letter to tell him how inappropriate his speech was.
The boy scouts organization probably loves him, so I doubt it.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
The boy scouts organization probably loves him, so I doubt it.
Well, the BSA released a tepid statement that it was "wholly non-partisan and does not promote any one position, product, service, political candidate or philosophy" and inviting him was a "long-standing tradition and is in no way an endorsement of any political party or specific policies".
Which
is rather a long way from "Asshole, can't you be a fucking adult for just half an hour?"
Quote from: trdsf on July 27, 2017, 12:16:03 PM
Well, the BSA released a tepid statement that it was "wholly non-partisan and does not promote any one position, product, service, political candidate or philosophy" and inviting him was a "long-standing tradition and is in no way an endorsement of any political party or specific policies".
Which is rather a long way from "Asshole, can't you be a fucking adult for just half an hour?"
Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
Pretty much. As a gay atheist, I washed my hands of the BSA ages ago anyway.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
NPR just mentioned the BSA's (as in the BSA Administration's) deepest apology for the political content of Trump's speech. I don't know what the political make up of the administration is, but I'm sure that there are not so conservative parents with sons in the BSA that thought the speech was inappropriate and voiced their concerns to the Jamboree. There may be a wink-wink in the apology, but I can also imagine a scenario where the Jamboree's planners might have thought Trump would surely tone the partisanship down when addressing a group of non political teenagers of widely ideologically diverse families and values. I can't myself imagine that Trump would have done anything differently, but then I have the advantage of hindsight in this situation. He has made a career built around voicing the inappropriate.
Any national organization depends on the support of their membership, and I doubt that the administration would intentionally want to piss off a part of that membership, especially where there is nothing to be gained but an unnecessary controversy. It would be the wrong move for an organization that has been struggling to keep up with modern culture in recent years.
Quote from: SGOS on July 27, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
I forgot about merit badges and special pins like 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class. The real scout nerds accumulated merit badges, and I vaguely remember something about three arrow point badges that designated some very special status. Near the end of the Scout Achievement hierarchy, you could eventually ascend to the esteemed level of Eagle Scout. By then, you had so many decorations you actually had to buy a special sash worn diagonally across your chest. Eagle Scouts were rare, like Generals or Admirals. I only knew one, a distant acquaintance that my father instructed me to respect with awe. When he put on his uniform with all the high level accessories, he looked like Baron Von Hoffschloffer at an important Affair of State.
There was one little thing about scouting that I cherished. In retrospect it was not special, but as a 12 year old, it meant something special to me. It was the Boy Scout Handbook, required of every Scout, just as every Christian needs his own Bible. Everything about scouting was in the Handbook, the pledges, salute and secret handshake, the codes of honor, etc. Most seemed unimportant, but much of it was devoted to outdoor skills, fire building, tracking, hiding. There were diagrams of little campfire set ups made from forked sticks to hold the little pot from your Boy Scout Mess Kit. Clever hints thought up by some would be backwoodsman in a special office of the Boy Scouts of America Headquarters, probably in a special wing of the Pentagon. Actually, I can't remember where Headquarters was.
Much of it is probably obsolete now. I don't think it would be environmentally friendly to built actual campfires with the modern availability of gas powered camp stoves. Constructing soft beds of pine boughs to spread your sleeping bag out on destroys campsites, and hopefully, the manual doesn't include any drawings of the camp hatchet, which had secretly inspired every Boy Scout to chop down a tree when the Scout Master was in the outhouse. But the Boy Scout handbook was my "go to" reference when I wanted to fantasize about going hiking and camping.
Much of this was inspired by a famous Wild West American ...Frederick Russell Burnham, who inspired Robert Baden-Powell (who established the Scouts in GB). But I think that much of the pre-history goes back to the story of Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe ... who was inspired by the real life Alexander Selkirk. See the Youtube on Alexander Selkirk, and see what it is like post-apocalypse. A bit about his goats, isn't PC.
Quote from: SGOS on July 27, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
NPR just mentioned the BSA's (as in the BSA Administration's) deepest apology for the political content of Trump's speech. I don't know what the political make up of the administration is, but I'm sure that there are not so conservative parents with sons in the BSA that thought the speech was inappropriate and voiced their concerns to the Jamboree. There may be a wink-wink in the apology, but I can also imagine a scenario where the Jamboree's planners might have thought Trump would surely tone the partisanship down when addressing a group of non political teenagers of widely ideologically diverse families and values. I can't myself imagine that Trump would have done anything differently, but then I have the advantage of hindsight in this situation. He has made a career built around voicing the inappropriate.
Any national organization depends on the support of their membership, and I doubt that the administration would intentionally want to piss off a part of that membership, especially where there is nothing to be gained but an unnecessary controversy. It would be the wrong move for an organization that has been struggling to keep up with modern culture in recent years.
Interesting. Trump just seems like someone the Boy Scouts would love.
Quote from: trdsf on July 27, 2017, 12:53:32 PM
Pretty much. As a gay atheist, I washed my hands of the BSA ages ago anyway.
When I was around scouting age, perhaps I was out of it by then, I remember some flap in Chicago, where a young teenager, probably 11 to 13 years old, was either kicked out or denied membership in the Scouts for being an atheist. This kid did a short informal speech in a news clip on a Chicago station, where he declared atheists to be "good people." I called myself a Christian at the time, and I remember thinking he was a brave kid to proclaim himself an atheist in public. I imagined grownups throwing shoes at their TVs. I didn't have a negative reaction to him though. But I thought to myself, "Maybe some atheists are good people." I only knew adults who were atheists at the time, and they were both very likeable, as far as I was concerned. They were both generous and considerate of others as far as I could tell. My world expanded just a little bit watching that kid.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 27, 2017, 07:46:40 PM
Interesting. Trump just seems like someone the Boy Scouts would love.
Parts of the administration, for sure. I don't know if the Jamboree is held in different locations every year, but things like that are often organized and planned under loose administration from above. The people doing the planning may be local volunteers that do it just once, and they may not be as cognizant of potential problems and let something like that slip by because it didn't strike them as potentially damaging. Someplace, I heard that the Scouts invite the president every year. I'm not sure if one usually shows up or not. They may have assumed Trump wouldn't show anyway.
Boy Scouts are inherently geared (and deliberately trained) toward authoritarian adults. I know; I was one. I broke free, but most don't.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 28, 2017, 02:38:03 AM
Boy Scouts are inherently geared (and deliberately trained) toward authoritarian adults.
I can't speak for every scout. But my Scout Master was ex Army, a radioman, who may have been compensating for his lack of advancement by leading scouts. He taught us the Morse Code, and every week, we would go outside and march on the playground. We would shout out Cadence ditties and do column left/column right and end up with little squads of scouts heading around the playground in every direction, eventually merging back together into a precision unit and creating a sense of completion. All done through the use of simple commands, followed by willing scouts.
Quote from: SGOS on July 28, 2017, 07:54:10 AM
I can't speak for every scout. But my Scout Master was ex Army, a radioman, who may have been compensating for his lack of advancement by leading scouts. He taught us the Morse Code, and every week, we would go outside and march on the playground. We would shout out Cadence ditties and do column left/column right and end up with little squads of scouts heading around the playground in every direction, eventually merging back together into a precision unit and creating a sense of completion. All done through the use of simple commands, followed by willing scouts.
Are you trying to make an analogy with Trump? - A whole bunch of people scurrying about to follow his orders and end up in a cohesive force. You win the grand prize if that turns out to be true.
Personally I haven't yet seen Trump show the genius of a dog turd. It would be nice if he suddenly starting acting like I dunno.... like he's the fn Pres of the U.S. but he probably isn't capable of such a feat.
Trump already did, he killed a few folks in Syria. He probably already proved his manhood with the owl statue the Bohemian Grove people get involved with. When Trump did that a few months back, you could hear all the dicks in the neo-con pants making sounds as they got hard against their pants ... even from where I was.
Obama was the last Willy Wonka in the White House. Y'all loved his shuck and jive.
Let me put it another way. Boy Scouts are taught to respect authority, accept instruction by older males, usually meeting in a church (though some don't), and a Scout is...
Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.
Several of those, especially "reverent" are emphasized in Scouting. I stopped at Life badge myself, because the Scout Leaders were members of the church we met at and insisted that, to get to Eagle Scout" you had to be REALLY reverent and serve the church. That WAS in 1968, but I haven't seen much that changed.