Morality!!!
I am dividing this word into how we use it and how God would use it.
Now because man/you all have a version of this word I am calling man's morality just Morality or being moral.
Morality is man's attempt to establish a righteous standard based on the sin he or the society he lives in is willing to except Incorporated into that standard.
Morality is not God's version/Righteousness or God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness is a sinless standard no one can achieve/We were never meant to achieve.
Morality says: It is ok to lie to save your friend's life.
Righteousness says: it is always a sin to lie no matter what the reason.
God's righteousness is absolute, and never changes.
Man's Morality is on a sliding scale always identified by the lessor of two evils.
That said know that 'morality' is not the universal standard of good. Morality is a constantly changing to suit the the personal or civil righteousness of a community of people. What once was moral could now be considered a crime, and vise versa.
I say that to help those looking to frame questions based on "morality." Most of the time it is used an absolute standard when in fact it is not, and for those looking to judge the actions of God.
If you choose to judge God by your own standard of morality, then you use a righteousness apart from God's righteousness... a "Self-Righteousness."
Do you speak for god?
God killed innocent babies in your made up story. I have far more of a moral high ground then a fictional character made up and modified every generation.
If your going to dedicate your existence to a make believe character, at least choose one with a better standard.
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 02:19:50 PM
Morality!!!
I am dividing this word into how we use it and how God would use it.
Now because man/you all have a version of this word I am calling man's morality just Morality or being moral.
Morality is man's attempt to establish a righteous standard based on the sin he or the society he lives in is willing to except Incorporated into that standard.
Morality is not God's version/Righteousness or God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness is a sinless standard no one can achieve/We were never meant to achieve.
Morality says: It is ok to lie to save your friend's life.
Righteousness says: it is always a sin to lie no matter what the reason.
God's righteousness is absolute, and never changes.
Man's Morality is on a sliding scale always identified by the lessor of two evils.
That said know that 'morality' is not the universal standard of good. Morality is a constantly changing to suit the the personal or civil righteousness of a community of people. What once was moral could now be considered a crime, and vise versa.
I say that to help those looking to frame questions based on "morality." Most of the time it is used an absolute standard when in fact it is not, and for those looking to judge the actions of God.
If you choose to judge God by your own standard of morality, then you use a righteousness apart from God's righteousness... a "Self-Righteousness."
There you go, Sport, foaming at the mouth. You can chose to divide the world into whatever parts you want, big boy. I chose to divide it by how people chose to make their morality--as they want it and as Bugs Bunny would have it. There. Let god and Bugs battle it out--they are both fictions. Of course Bugs can't do anything--just as your god can't either--it's a fiction.
Just because you throw a few words around like 'righteousness' and 'morality' doesn't mean it is a real concept. They aren't since the base of all you foaming and frothing is simply fiction.
So, great dildo, you just continue to foam and froth setting up false arguments you think is based on the 'authority' of nothing--a fiction. Be my guest.......................
Now if you are read................
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 19, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
Do you speak for god?
All Christ centered Christians do. in everything we think say and Do.
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2017, 03:08:54 PM
God killed innocent babies in your made up story. I have far more of a moral high ground then a fictional character made up and modified every generation.
If your going to dedicate your existence to a make believe character, at least choose one with a better standard.
So let's say God killed a million babies from the first to the last that he takes credit for. That is one a second 24/7 for almost 14 days!!!
That is a lot of baby meat. But IDK what if God simply welcomed them back Home and A either turned them loose in heaven or Bsent them back out into the world to be reborn to someone else who has a better life?
Still morality of man says killing babies is always wrong... unless you can rename the baby... or use a word from a dead language that translate 'baby.' Ie: FETUS (Latin for baby) Then morality says it is ok to kill babies not baby millions or hunderds of millions but almost 1.5 Billion... Meaning if you support a woman's right to choose to kill her child you support the death of 1.5 billion children since the Roe v wade verdict that have died.. Now these babies did the die being welcomed back by the father? did the get replugged in to another life? Does it matter because you/we don't know their fate. yet we do it anyway.. Remember when I said 14 days one every second? your "MoRaLITY" has a baby die every second for 75 years.
So with your great "morality meter" tell me who is the greater evil a God who command the death of a 1,000,000 babies (more like 100K from the first to the last campaign, but will conceed you a million rounding way way up) of enmy's of the state, not to forget this God can care for or redirect those children spirits,
Or is the bigger evil a people who have already killed 1.5 billion babies since 1973 with no end insight all because a woman does not want to change her life style... Something you and your morality supports.. Just fyi that is one baby a second killed for 100 years 24/7 365
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
Yet your morality demands God is evil??? :histerical:
Here it should be obvious you can not even stand up to scrutiny by your own standard.. So where then do you have the authority to judge God?
where do I have the authority to judge god. Hmm, oh thats a tough one. Maybe its the fact its not god I'm judging, but the insane ramblings of a theist who thinks his 'god' is real, and goes into defensive mode whenever someone brings it up.
I remember reading about a gay porn star once, who performed every kind of sex act with other men, orgies, bareback, the works, and all though it, he refused to get treatment for hepatitis, HIV, syphilis, any of it, because he believed he wasn't infected and couldn't be, and yet when it became full blown ill from all the infections he picked up, he then believes praying to god would cure him of those diseases, and he refused to ever accept medication for it.
Its the same as nuns who thought curing people with prayer was a more effective medical act then using medicine, such as mother teresa, who was a fraud letting people suffer and die in her 'houses of healing', and yet christians still believe she was somehow helping people, when it was just the church covering up the reality of what she was doing.
See, I don't have to judge your god, because he isn't real, he's fictional. I can however judge you, and call you a fucking idiot for believing in such things you should have stopped believing in when you were past 8 years old. As i've used on this thread before, do you also believe in father christmas? If using your own logic, he must me real to, because a five year old says he is.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 04:26:43 PM
There you go, Sport, foaming at the mouth.
just trying to help people such as yourself to rightly divide the word you all misuse. I want to simply remind you that just because you have a definition of a word, does not mean it is the only or even right one.
QuoteYou can chose to divide the world into whatever parts you want, big boy.
Here's the thing sport, Most of you will acknoweledge that the word morality as found in the bible does not have the same meaning as the word you use. So I was explain to all who want to understand what the difference was explaining why your defination is different that say anyone else not of the culture.
QuoteI chose to divide it by how people chose to make their morality--as they want it and as Bugs Bunny would have it.
And if you could read... I made that distinction.
QuoteThere. Let god and Bugs battle it out--they are both fictions. Of course Bugs can't do anything--just as your god can't either--it's a fiction.
Here's the thing midol.. God is not the only one who has not adopted your standard. Pretty much anyone not Caucasian or western by birth would find your morality .... different. I know you were taught to think the world revolves around ou and so long as you are not hurting anyone you should get what you want... S sorry bigun, but the rest of the world does not work that way. You can etch out a little corner and ake everyone who comes into your world behave that way, but if and only if you wish to live outside your bubble, you are going to have to back burner your sense of self inspired righteousness.
Quote
Just because you throw a few words around like 'righteousness' and 'morality' doesn't mean it is a real concept. They aren't since the base of all you foaming and frothing is simply fiction.
and just because you say these are not concepts does not make that statement true. The fact that 1/2 the respondents on this thread decided to judge God with their version of morality kinda indicates the vast majority of even your people yield to this idea of right and wrong even if you want to pretend otherwise.
BTW not a game I play when hypocrites such as yourself tend to harshly judge others for not being like them. If you want to pretend there is no morality then you have to do a little more work to establish that belief n your writing before you can just 'proclaim' there is no morality.
Quote
So, great dildo, you just continue to foam and froth setting up false arguments you think is based on the 'authority' of nothing--a fiction. Be my guest.......................
Now if you are read................
then why participate?
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2017, 06:03:31 PM
where do I have the authority to judge god. Hmm, oh thats a tough one. Maybe its the fact its not god I'm judging, but the insane ramblings of a theist who thinks his 'god' is real, and goes into defensive mode whenever someone brings it up.
then why not judge my action doomas? why bring up God kill a million babies? did I kill a million babies? did I kill any? then how is it I am being judged you moron? you just step on your dingus when you went down this road and now you think you cn back pedal out by saying "oh, look at me I can't be arguing or judgeing God because I 'm and atheist and as you know atheist simply say God does not exist!" AGAIN IF that were true why bring up the babies God killed moron?
For that moment you were ready to go on a god/witch hunt and get your pound of flesh, then when you realized this conversation was way waaaaay to deep for you, you coped out.
Nice Job atheist. way to think that one through.
QuoteI remember reading about a gay porn star once, who performed every kind of sex act with other men, orgies, bareback, the works, and all though it, he refused to get treatment for hepatitis, HIV, syphilis, any of it, because he believed he wasn't infected and couldn't be, and yet when it became full blown ill from all the infections he picked up, he then believes praying to god would cure him of those diseases, and he refused to ever accept medication for it.
Now cums the part where you try and shock and disgst me into saying something that makes me the moral monster... Oh God hates fags or God bla bla bla. Here's a thought sport... What If I don't belive homosexuality is the unforgivable sin? What if I think it is a sin like any other? What if... I say there will be gay guys in Heaven??? Just kinda put you back on the spot for trying to use gay to make me out to be a villian huh??? You are using gay people for your own lack of originality. your not even smart enough to formulate you own conversation reversals...
QuoteIts the same as nuns who thought curing people with prayer was a more effective medical act then using medicine, such as mother teresa, who was a fraud letting people suffer and die in her 'houses of healing', and yet christians still believe she was somehow helping people, when it was just the church covering up the reality of what she was doing.
Holy crap did you just... Are you so serious as to think I am one of those faithers who can take asprine??? :biglaugh: you are all over the place desperatly looking for buttons to push huh??? Man you must hate H_A_T_E being put on the spot like this to go this far... Let just say no, I use drugs and doctors and move on Kinda feel bad for you to have gone here.
Quote
See, I don't have to judge your god,
but again b-hole you kinda did when you brough up the babies. I asked several question about all the babies you are responsible for and how is it you are a better person for doing the same if not much much worse and yet here we are. my questions unanswered and you desperatly seeking a panic stop out of the conversation. sum it up???
Quotebecause he isn't real, he's fictional.
if that where true then why bring up acts attributed to Him? if you were judging me why not bring up my acts???
QuoteI can however judge you, and call you a fucking idiot for believing in such things you should have stopped believing in when you were past 8 years old. As i've used on this thread before, do you also believe in father christmas? If using your own logic, he must me real to, because a five year old says he is.
What a great and shinning example of a true atheist 'thinker' Hard at work. I am sure none of your peers had to cringe through this last exchange while you took your licks, as i pointed out one hypocritical comment after another.
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 19, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
Do you speak for god?
I speak for myself, because I am a demigod ... and so can you, because so are you. Drich is mistaken, because he thinks he speaks for more than himself. All gods are projections of our inner selves. Fictional yes, but powerful as any other ideal can be. Of course the inner selves of monkey men, can be ... problematic. One gnostic I know, simply insists that if you are going to be theistic, you should always choose the best possible god, even if it is only in your head. The god in your head, effects what you think, say or do.
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:50:38 PM
So let's say God killed a million babies from the first to the last that he takes credit for. That is one a second 24/7 for almost 14 days!!!
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Quote from: Baruch on July 19, 2017, 07:12:20 PM
I speak for myself, because I am a demigod ... and so can you, because so are you. Drich is mistaken, because he thinks he speaks for more than himself. All gods are projections of our inner selves. Fictional yes, but powerful as any other ideal can be. Of course the inner selves of monkey men, can be ... problematic. One gnostic I know, simply insists that if you are going to be theistic, you should always choose the best possible god, even if it is only in your head. The god in your head, effects what you think, say or do.
honestly Baruch, this is why I like you so much, you think well outside the box.
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2017, 08:18:43 PM
honestly Baruch, this is why I like you so much, you think well outside the box.
I am what is outside the box ... Hollow-man.
Quote from: aitm on July 19, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Forget eating, have you seen the crazy shit what insects and parasites do? Any god that would create that is terrifying.
Quote from: Baruch on July 19, 2017, 07:12:20 PMAll gods are projections of our inner selves.
Yup.
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 06:08:53 PM
then why participate?
Well, Oh Great Dildo, because I can.
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 19, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
Do you speak for god?
All Christ centered Christians do. in everything we think say and Do.
(https://puu.sh/wOaLG.png) (http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/dear-god-2)
Just what I thought. You say you speak for god, but that means god has no voice of his own.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 19, 2017, 08:42:12 PM
Forget eating, have you seen the crazy shit what insects and parasites do? Any god that would create that is terrifying.
You will never be a biologist ... they love that kind of shit. In fact ... flies love shit literally.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 09:40:01 PM
Well, Oh Great Dildo, because I can.
Translation= Butthurt and thinks I can be discouraged or derailed.
You are more than welcome to continue on if you like
Quote from: aitm on July 19, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Oh don't be all polite AITM, just let it all out, LOL!
Imagine your response if you could see the whole exchange, and not hide yourself from the uncomfortable bits...
But are you red?
Quote from: aitm on July 19, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Drichbitch's god created shit, literally, if his babble is to be believed.
Quote from: aitm on July 19, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Eell, to be honest about it, how would we know what a deity thought just or fair? I mean, what if a deity wished us all to die at once so we could join it before we committed more sins. And how would any of us know what the sins were. Maybe it is just stepping on ants? The point is there is no knowing anything about any alledged deity.
And what if there was more than one with different "sins"? LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 04:36:43 PM
Eell, to be honest about it, how would we know what a deity thought just or fair? I mean, what if a deity wished us all to die at once so we could join it before we committed more sins. And how would any of us know what the sins were. Maybe it is just stepping on ants? The point is there is no knowing anything about any alledged deity.
And what if there was more than one with different "sins"? LOL!
As a demigod, I know what sins are, by my own lights. I don't know yours and don't wanna know. Monotheism is ... iffy. Polytheism is ... for the birds ;-)
do the bird-gods eat the insect-gods? if there is only one bird-god are you back to monotheism?
Quote from: fencerider on July 22, 2017, 04:50:15 PM
do the bird-gods eat the insect-gods? if there is only one bird-god are you back to monotheism?
Wouldn't that be birdgodeism? And then wouldn't there be arguments bout how birdgod learned to fly? Ah, but then a drich would come along and argue what birds always flew.
Quote from: fencerider on July 22, 2017, 04:50:15 PM
do the bird-gods eat the insect-gods? if there is only one bird-god are you back to monotheism?
Well the bird-god of the Moas ... was an awesome bird-god, an awesome bird-god was he! That is why the
Kiwi birds (also NZ) had to gang up on them, to get the Polynesians who found NZ, to exterminate their arch enemy. Remember, kiwi fruit are just gay kiwis ;-)
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 19, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
Do you speak for god?
All Christ centered Christians do. in everything we think say and Do.
This pretty much sums up my problem with religious types. They truly believe this.
Quote from: Jason78 on July 29, 2017, 07:47:34 AMThis pretty much sums up my problem with religious types. They truly believe this.
And who gets to decide who is "Christ centered" and who is not? Pretty convenient that every Christian is an expert on what "real Christians" are supposed to think and do.
histogram chart - put the beliefs of all the brands of Christianity on a histogram and find out where the center is.... can't be any more scientific than that ;-)
Quote from: fencerider on August 02, 2017, 07:18:40 PM
histogram chart - put the beliefs of all the brands of Christianity on a histogram and find out where the center is.... can't be any more scientific than that ;-)
Another poll ...
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/04/12/religion-in-everyday-life/
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 29, 2017, 09:39:05 AM
And who gets to decide who is "Christ centered" and who is not? Pretty convenient that every Christian is an expert on what "real Christians" are supposed to think and do.
Maybe we should create a logical fallacy based on this flawed thinking of Christians?
We could call it, "the no true Christian" fallacy.
Think we could get some traction on this?
Quote from: Simon Moon on August 02, 2017, 07:43:39 PM
Maybe we should create a logical fallacy based on this flawed thinking of Christians?
We could call it, "the no true Christian" fallacy.
Think we could get some traction on this?
Traction? Like super-glued to the pavement ;-) All Christians have the "no true Christian fallacy" hence all the multiple sects, and concern about heretics in the ranks.
One of the problems with religions, is that when you really get down to it, none of what the adherents believe is exactly the same theisms. Put any 2 theists who are actually capable arguing (I know, an almost null proposition), but in discussing details, they would disagree on SOMETHING.
So would almost any 2 scientists. But there is a difference. Religion is The True Word and revelatory of Truth; science is always provisional.
Religion, logically, cannot ever be wrong (knock yourself out on that one Baruch) as it comes from a deity. Science can change with every new fact. And I love that. No progress can be made without change.
"No progress can be made without change." ... True, but not all change is progress.
The Jewish version of your point ... two Jews, three opinions ;-)
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 02:19:50 PM
Righteousness says: it is always a sin to lie no matter what the reason.
God's righteousness is absolute, and never changes.
Maybe these religious folks should've been told that:
Quote from: Eusebius of NicomediaIt will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
Quote from: Catholic Encyclical X, 195
We [Catholics] are also under an obligation to keep secrets faithfully. And sometimes the easiest way to fulfill that duty is to say what is false, or to tell a lie.
Quote from: Edwin F. Healy, S. J., "Moral Guidance", 1960At times one is obliged in concience to veil the truth, for there are secrets to be guarded and detractions to be avoided. Sometimes silence will not suffice to maintain the secret which one is trying to guard. In fact, it may happen that silence would betray the secret. Hence there must be some licit means of concealing the truth when necessary. This licit means is the broad mental reservation....One way of putting the question is to ask if a false statement is always a lie. Some theologians answer in the negative....Sometimes it is necessary to make a false statement in order to protect secret knowledge. Silence or the use of mental reservation is not sufficient; the only way to protect the secret is to make a statement contrary to what....you know to be true.
Quote from: Beausobre (theologian)Christians not only do not say what they think, but they do say the direct contrary of what they think. Philosophers in their cabinets; out of them they are content with fables, though they well know they are fables. Nay, more: they deliver honest men to the executioner, for having uttered what they themselves know to be true. How many atheists and pagans have burned holy men under the pretext of heresy? Every day do hypocrites consecrate, and make people adore the host, though as well convinced as I am, that it is nothing but a bit of bread.
Quote from: Augustine, "On Lying", c. 19It is lawful then, to him that discusses, disputes and preaches of things eternal, or to him that narrates of things temporal pertaining to religion or piety, to conceal at fitting times whatever seems fit to be concealed.
Quote from: Gregory of Nanzianus (in a letter to St. Jerome)A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose upon the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire. Our forefathers and doctors have often said, not what they thought, but what circumstances and necessity dictated.
Quote from: Hermas, Visions of Hermas, vol. 2, ch. 3Oh Lord, I never spoke a true word in my life, I have always affirmed a lie as truth to all men, and no man contradicted me; instead, they all gave credit to my works.
Quote from: Martin LutherWhat would it matter if, for the sake of the Christian Church, one were to tell a big lie?
Quote from: Martin Luther
What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church...a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.
Apparently the religious have no problem at all with a bit of situational ethics.
Quote from: Baruch on July 19, 2017, 07:12:20 PM
I speak for myself, because I am a demigod ... and so can you, because so are you. Drich is mistaken, because he thinks he speaks for more than himself. All gods are projections of our inner selves. Fictional yes, but powerful as any other ideal can be. Of course the inner selves of monkey men, can be ... problematic. One gnostic I know, simply insists that if you are going to be theistic, you should always choose the best possible god, even if it is only in your head. The god in your head, effects what you think, say or do.
If everyone is a god, then no one is a god.
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2017, 08:18:43 PM
honestly Baruch, this is why I like you so much, you think well outside the box.
That's because he knows well what's inside the box.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 22, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
Drichbitch's god created shit, literally, if his babble is to be believed.
Yeah, God created shit, but he doesn't like stepping in it any more than we do:
Quote from: Deuteronomy 23:12-14
Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 03, 2017, 10:13:37 AM
So would almost any 2 scientists.
At least the scientists could, in theory, perform an experiment to see which is right - the god-heads never could.
But it isn't just religious people who lie, so does God - a lot!
Quote from: Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Quote from: Genesis 3:3-4But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Quote from: Genesis 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Apparently, Adam did not die in the day he ate the forbidden fruit, so God just plain lied.
Quote from: Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
Quote from: Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.
Quote from: Ezekiel 14:9And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Quote from: Jeremiah 18:8
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
with 2Kings 23:3,5,8-15,21-22,25-26
Quote from: 2Kings 23:3
And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all [their] heart and all [their] soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.
Quote from: 2Kings 23:5And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
Quote from: 2Kings 23:8-15And he brought all the priests out of the cities of Judah, and defiled the high places where the priests had burned incense, from Geba to Beersheba, and brake down the high places of the gates that [were] in the entering in of the gate of Joshua the governor of the city, which [were] on a man's left hand at the gate of the city.
Nevertheless the priests of the high places came not up to the altar of the LORD in Jerusalem, but they did eat of the unleavened bread among their brethren.
And he defiled Topheth, which [is] in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun, at the entering in of the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathanmelech the chamberlain, which [was] in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire.
And the altars that [were] on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake [them] down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron.
And the high places that [were] before Jerusalem, which [were] on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.
And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men.
Moreover the altar that [was] at Bethel, [and] the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, [and] stamped [it] small to powder, and burned the grove.
Quote from: 2Kings 23:21-22And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God, as [it is] written in the book of this covenant.
Surely there was not holden such a passover from the days of the judges that judged Israel, nor in all the days of the kings of Israel, nor of the kings of Judah;
Quote from: 2Kings 23:25And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there [any] like him.
and
Quote from: 2Chronicles 34:33And Josiah took away all the abominations out of all the countries that [pertained] to the children of Israel, and made all that were present in Israel to serve, [even] to serve the LORD their God. [And] all his days they departed not from following the LORD, the God of their fathers.
then see
Quote from: 2Kings 23:26-27
Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal.
And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.
So The king of Judah, Josiah, did exactly what God wanted, but God fucked Judah up anyway!
What a liar this God of the Bible is!
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2017, 03:44:39 PM
If everyone is a god, then no one is a god.
I am not Orthodox, but un-Orthodox. Using orthodoxy as a standard, when you aren't religious, is a straw man. There is the macrocosm and the many microcosms. The existence of the microcosms, doesn't rule out a macrocosm. As a Panentheist, I have no problem with a deeply humanistic macrocosm (at least for people as a particular species). There could be different macrocosms for different species. In linear thinking, we could produce our own transcendent existence.
"What a liar this God of the Bible is!" ... this is a realistic god, not an ideal god. Making out any god to be an ideal, even a demigod like myself, is your problem, not mine, not G-d's. And how typical ... a parent expressing "do what I say, not what I do" ;-))
Quote from: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 04:36:43 PM
Eell, to be honest about it, how would we know what a deity thought just or fair?
well "it" DID say that man was created in their image..so somewhere in there gawd and man shared morality. And judging by history...is pretty spot on. I don' want my gods to be like us....I want them to be real gods. Alas...the brothers Grimm beat us to it.
Quote from: aitm on August 03, 2017, 10:00:51 PM
well "it" DID say that man was created in their image..so somewhere in there gawd and man shared morality. And judging by history...is pretty spot on. I don' want my gods to be like us....I want them to be real gods. Alas...the brothers Grimm beat us to it.
Well, if you want semi-rational deities, The Silmarillion does a decent job. Better than Genesis anyway.
Quote from: aitm on August 03, 2017, 10:00:51 PM
well "it" DID say that man was created in their image..so somewhere in there gawd and man shared morality. And judging by history...is pretty spot on. I don' want my gods to be like us....I want them to be real gods. Alas...the brothers Grimm beat us to it.
Yes, when you die, you become one of Santa's elves, forever!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 06, 2017, 02:49:45 AM
Well, if you want semi-rational deities, The Silmarillion does a decent job. Better than Genesis anyway.
I would think you would rather like the children's fantasy, the Berenstain bears ;-) And no, there were huge plot holes in Tolkein's work.
You simply don't like ancient ME stories. And your desire for rationality has been noted, but denied.
Quote from: aitm on July 19, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
14 days? Nice dodge. But that is not the real point. A REAL god would not create a world where living creatures had to eat other living creatures, nor a world where living creatures were being eaten by other creatures and then.....have the temerity to suggest "it" has the fucking moral high ground. Go fuck your pretend piece of shit god. Really, your god is the most pathetic useless immoral, vicious and sadistic piece of shit that humanity has ever invented....and then worshipped...since humans, three thousand years ago thought just like "him"....odd that, to us, but not to you......
Should we blame evolution for this piece of crap world you live in?
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 07, 2017, 01:18:01 PM
Should we blame evolution for this piece of crap world you live in?
Blame evolution, if it is a person. Non persons don't take blame. As a theist, I not only dislike human experience of life, but I do blame G-d for G-d's share of it.
Blaming god is satisfying, you know instantly why in any case you shouldn't.
Instead of blaming anyone or anything for the sad state of the world, we should simply get to work improving the world.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 07, 2017, 01:31:34 PM
Blaming god is satisfying, you know instantly why in any case you shouldn't.
I know G-d, but don't believe the lies followers tell of who they don't know themselves.
"Religion: A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
Ambrose Bierce
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 07, 2017, 06:33:41 PM
"Religion: A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
Ambrose Bierce
Religion: son of Pride and Regret. And Pride is the MoA sins. Epistemology .. an exercise in futility.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 07, 2017, 01:31:34 PM
Blaming god is satisfying, you know instantly why in any case you shouldn't.
Oh, you are so right!! It is so, so satisfying when I blame Bugs Bunny---but instantly, I know why I shouldn't.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 07, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
Oh, you are so right!! It is so, so satisfying when I blame Bugs Bunny---but instantly, I know why I shouldn't.
Is that you Elmer? Or are you Daffy?
Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2017, 09:59:45 PM
Is that you Elmer? Or are you Daffy?
Yep! You got it.
It is foolish discussing god with people who have no concept of it. You don't talk colors to a blind man either, but you can make him feel blind.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 03:41:20 AM
It is foolish discussing god with people who have no concept of it. You don't talk colors to a blind man either, but you can make him feel blind.
So, why are you here?
Ah, yes. To make us feel blind. And I do feel blind every now and again when I realize I have not seen the Invisible Pink Unicorn for awhile. Since you are not blind, have you seen Her lately???
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 08, 2017, 09:02:19 AM
So, why are you here?
Ah, yes. To make us feel blind. And I do feel blind every now and again when I realize I have not seen the Invisible Pink Unicorn for awhile. Since you are not blind, have you seen Her lately???
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?
Notice how the logo of the forum also says believers. I thought I'd come around.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 12:57:12 PM
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?
Notice how the logo of the forum also says believers. I thought I'd come around.
By all means, come around. But how much do you hope to discuss with 'blind' people? Oh--I see (said the blind man), you aren't here to discuss, but to bring light to those who can't see. How very kind of you. Which gospel do you subscribe to? New Testemant? The World of Bugs Bunny? Some other fiction? Well, anyway, please tell us like it is, oh bringer of light.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 08, 2017, 01:14:44 PM
By all means, come around. But how much do you hope to discuss with 'blind' people? Oh--I see (said the blind man), you aren't here to discuss, but to bring light to those who can't see. How very kind of you. Which gospel do you subscribe to? New Testemant? The World of Bugs Bunny? Some other fiction? Well, anyway, please tell us like it is, oh bringer of light.
It's the "I have the free will to ridicule"-testament. I'm sure you're familiar with that one.
A new chew toy has arrived.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 02:27:40 PM
It's the "I have the free will to ridicule"-testament. I'm sure you're familiar with that one.
I know that you do.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 03:41:20 AM
It is foolish discussing god with people who have no concept of it. You don't talk colors to a blind man either, but you can make him feel blind.
Yeah difference there is you don't 'feel blind', you simply are blind. And I've seen schools teach blind children about colors based on other sensations like cold for blue, hot for rest, the color of sand and snow, all that.
You can tell people the story of god, but unlike sand and snow, you can't produce anything to show it as a thing that exists.
Quote from: sdelsolray on August 08, 2017, 02:28:44 PM
A new chew toy has arrived.
Assuming this isn't an alternate account of Dick's.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 03:41:20 AM
It is foolish discussing god with people who have no concept of it. You don't talk colors to a blind man either, but you can make him feel blind.
Atheists have a better understanding of the Bible than Christians do. Also, many of us have religious backgrounds. It's because we know the Bible so well that we don't believe in it.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 08, 2017, 03:41:20 AM
It is foolish discussing god with people who have no concept of it. You don't talk colors to a blind man either, but you can make him feel blind.
It is equally foolish to discuss religion with theists. They already are obsessed with theisms and afterlives. They have lost the ability to examine the world factually.
You guys are so fun, I'm glad I passed by.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 04:39:04 AM
You guys are so fun, I'm glad I passed by.
Always pleased to amuse a dunk...
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 04:39:04 AM
You guys are so fun, I'm glad I passed by.
You come here and call us "ignorants" and expect a warm welcome?
I got one, didn't I?
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 08:33:20 AM
I got one, didn't I?
Hey, Flee--welcome (hug)! I LOVE my chew toys!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 09, 2017, 09:34:06 AM
Hey, Flee--welcome (hug)! I LOVE my chew toys!
They're not food though.
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 08:33:20 AM
I got one, didn't I?
A warm welcome. Sure. We are a lot more tolerant to new members than you might think. But if, as it seems now, you are just another theist, your welcome here will be brief. So which is it? Are you here to teach and convert us to any theism (good luck on THAT) or to actually discuss a rational universe free of superstitons?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 09, 2017, 10:11:19 AM
A warm welcome. Sure. We are a lot more tolerant to new members than you might think. But if, as it seems now, you are just another theist, your welcome here will be brief. So which is it? Are you here to teach and convert us to any theism (good luck on THAT) or to actually discuss a rational universe free of superstitons?
You're joking right?
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 10:13:37 AM
You're joking right?
I joke, but usually not here and not unless I say I am. You're a theist, right? If I misundertood that, you should write more clearly. I'm pretty literal.
Oh and I bet Baruch would have discussed me thinking I was "pretty" if I didn't beat him to it. I understand HIM, but he will never get me at all. LOL!
Quote from: Flee thinker on August 09, 2017, 10:02:56 AM
They're not food though.
And neither are you--not even for thought.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 09, 2017, 10:39:22 AM
And neither are you--not even for thought.
Mike, my gardening forum awards "acorns" for well stated posts. I suppose we don't have those here, but consider your self "acorned". Well said!
Don't got any acorns ... but you are corny ;-) I can award you cow patties however.
No, you don't understand me, you only understand picinic baskets, you thief!