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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 02:37:29 PM

Title: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 02:37:29 PM
Or rather When God sends a messenger:

sometime after the Hell experience and I started to goto church on a regular basis...

My mom had just returned to Korea for a month long visit and my Father is a strong willed atheist who does not agree with our "religious" practices. So when she left so too did my shield from him. (I was about 17 or 18) long story short, My church going sister and I were kicked out of the house and we were staying with members of the church, and they asked me to come to a resolution with my father. so I was going to my uncles house to speak with him after work. It was very cold that night, and my car did not have heat, so I was bundled up, but still wanted to stop and get us some cokes to share while we made a plan to resolve things with my dad.

On the way I stopped at a poorly lit store who sat lower than the rest of the road, (That meant one could see the whole parking lot.) I pulled in and opened the door to the cold, and to my surprise stood a very tall black man wearing a army jacket, a black beanie, gloves with no fingers, and dirty blue jeans with nasty work boots.

He genuine scared me because I am usually very aware of my surroundings and he came from no where. I must of stood there with a shocked expression because He said, I didn't mean to scare you, but I was just released from prison and need your help. At that point I said to myself strike 3 sucker I'm out of here, but I must of blurted out something like, what do you need? He told me, "I need to get to so and so's house before my parole officer calls at 7, It's just a few miles away." I said ok, but I need to get some drinks because my uncle is expecting me.

In the store I separated my money (just got paid) Because no matter what you do for someone they always ask for cash in the end. Got my drinks and went out side and he was climbing in the back of my ranchero. I told Him he did not have to ride in the back, and opened the door for him. He introduced Himself (dont remember his name.) I introduced myself and that was the Last Thing I said Aloud.

He said "I don't have much time, but I was told to help you. For you see I'm what you might call a psychic." Then he asked do you want to hear where your problems are, and what the Lord has in store for you? I nodded my head, and He began very quickly to list all of the problems my dad and I were having, then He went into my dad's past and told me of the triggers, and then proceeded to tell me how to resolve this issue we were currently having. He told me of my mom where she went why she went and what she was thinking. Next He went into my short comings, not all of them, just the one that were keeping me from a relationship with God.

At this point we traveled less than a mile and I was absolutely dumb founded, I thought to myself this Guy must be my guardian angel. Then He stopped mid sentence looked me square in the eye and said: "something like that." Then He proceeded to tell me of my future, what God was going to do for me, what was required of me, and what was expected in return. (Don't like to go into details because many tell me I am conceded or foolish to think God will use me in these ways when I do share.)

He told me of the love interest that I had at the time and I was told I would be given one chance and I will absolutely know when that chance with her would be, but I would refuse her. (And I did not because of what this guy said it was just circumstance) He told me of someone else. Someone in whom God was preparing for me specifically. Which all was very very true. Then He told me of the gifts I will be given, and impact I could have on others. At this point tears were streaming and I was frightened and elated at the same time. Just when I could not hear anymore He said "This is far enough, pull over here." (Well lit parking lot of another convenience store)

I did, and He got out, grabbed his bag then smiled with a big grin and asked: "One more thing do you have a dollar or two" and looked at the pocket where I separated my money, Then he said, "cause you know how we can never be happy with what has already been given to us.." He Told me God bless, I did a quick u-turn and He was gone... just as quickly as he appeared.

Whether one can classify this encounter with a specific class of angel or not, by definition this man or being carried a message from God. One that has (over time) proven to be true time and time again. One that permanently changed my life. His message has help me see point and purpose through hardships and tragedy that most do not recover from. Perhaps that was the point. Either way, I tell you all of this to say a angel is a messenger from God. Now whether they have a complete message/picture of your life, or just enough to answer a question you have asked on this website. Angels/messengers do exist, even if they are not the kind we like to make movies and write books about.

Anyone who carries the message of God is indeed one of His messengers.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on June 28, 2017, 02:44:10 PM
I've had a similar experience--man, it was quite life-shaking, I can tell you!!!  And now I am a messenger for Bugs Bunny.  You scoff.  But I'm here, teeth and claws, to help you shed the dead-end thinking that you have engaged in so far in your life!  You need to hear it like it is, so you never have to go down the Rabbit Hole on your own!  Repent, and you too can find the Big Carrot!!  But hurry, before it is too late.  And never get entangled with Elmer the Fudd!!!!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
Don't get it.. you girl piss and moan how God never shows up like he does in the NT and here I give a modern example of a bible event and it get mocked. Actually I've given you several examples and no one wants to even consider that god is anything but silent.

Why?

Why not seek the truth for yourself?

I don't tell you these things to show you what a great guy i am I share these things so you are inspired to seek out your own meeting with God.

What if everything I told you was not only 100% truthful but also 100% at your own finger tips??? You angel may not look lke mine or your trip to Hell maybe a trip to the store, but what makes it miracolous is not where or what but who shows up. When He does there is no doubt. there is no disbelief. So why not seek this for yourself? what does it cost? nothing.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on June 28, 2017, 04:44:56 PM
It sounds to me that your kinda desperate for conversion. If God was real, what reason would anyone have to want to follow him? He's pretty much a villain in his own story
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 28, 2017, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah, God's one of those folks you'd hate to meet in a dark alley...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: sdelsolray on June 28, 2017, 05:26:10 PM
As previously observed, this one is a religious nutter.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 28, 2017, 05:30:50 PM
Yeah, the farce is strong in this one...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 28, 2017, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah, God's one of those folks you'd hate to meet in a dark alley...

If G-d was in the form of a burning bush, at least the dark alley would not be dark ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on June 28, 2017, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 06:40:46 PM
If G-d was in the form of a burning bush, at least the dark alley would not be dark ;-)

I'd actually be more concerned with him flooding the alley and drowning everyone living in the houses either side of the alley.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 28, 2017, 06:47:55 PM
OK, I'll have to come clean, here, and confess that I threw God out of our universe - it just wasn't big enough for the both of us.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on June 28, 2017, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
Don't get it.. you girl piss and moan how God never shows up like he does in the NT and here I give a modern example of a bible event and it get mocked. Actually I've given you several examples and no one wants to even consider that god is anything but silent.

Why?

Why not seek the truth for yourself?

I don't tell you these things to show you what a great guy i am I share these things so you are inspired to seek out your own meeting with God.

What if everything I told you was not only 100% truthful but also 100% at your own finger tips??? You angel may not look lke mine or your trip to Hell maybe a trip to the store, but what makes it miracolous is not where or what but who shows up. When He does there is no doubt. there is no disbelief. So why not seek this for yourself? what does it cost? nothing.
Ah, gwd, what a fucking baby.  What if???  What if????  What if your turds are really tootsie rolls???  What if the Tooth Fairy really exists??  What if Paul Bunyan really exists???  What if.......??????
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 28, 2017, 07:05:35 PM
Ah, gwd, what a fucking baby.  What if???  What if????  What if your turds are really tootsie rolls???  What if the Tooth Fairy really exists??  What if Paul Bunyan really exists???  What if.......??????

If Paul Bunyan exists, so does Babe, his giant blue ox.  Look out below!  Giant cow patties!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on June 28, 2017, 08:07:14 PM
Yes, I imagine you think that you have this special, super-duper experience that ought to convince anyone to come hear the message of god.

Meanwhile, to us, it sounds like fanfiction. Bad fanfiction. Like Oscar shit. Like stuff they do fan-MST3k-ing on. I'm resisting the urge to drag out my little toys of Crow and Tom Servo and type one out.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on June 28, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
God sent fucking angels to a village once and instead of being...you know...angels,, the guy hide them in his house cause he was afraid that people could harm the angels and instead sent his daughter out to be fucked and fucked and fucked again.......angels did nothing to help...your god is a sick fuck and people that worship that sick fuck are sick fucks.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on June 28, 2017, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Munch on June 28, 2017, 04:44:56 PM
It sounds to me that your kinda desperate for conversion. If God was real, what reason would anyone have to want to follow him? He's pretty much a villain in his own story

God wrote himself as both the main protagonist and the main antagonist. Satan? Nah. He's a supporting character, and he's in the same boat as humanity, threatened with eternal torture in Hell. God is the one who sends people to Hell simply for being the humans he designed them to be in the first place. Then he sends himself to save us from...himself. Oh, and throw in the Holy Spirit as our guide and teacher, and the only role left for us to play is the damsel in distress. I mean, heaven forbid somebody else get some time in the spotlight. God wants to be Darth Sidious, Luke Skywalker, and Yoda all at the same time. A glory hog he is.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 10:53:27 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 28, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
God sent fucking angels to a village once and instead of being...you know...angels,, the guy hide them in his house cause he was afraid that people could harm the angels and instead sent his daughter out to be fucked and fucked and fucked again.......angels did nothing to help...your god is a sick fuck and people that worship that sick fuck are sick fucks.

Yes, but the Sodomites and Gommorahites were just fine?  Yes, ancient people didn't value women.  I am not sure we value them still.  Angels are messengers ... not storm troopers.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: fencerider on June 29, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
I think the short story is god likes some people but not everybody. Sent a bear to kill some kids for making fun of Elijah's hair. But for some of us we could be layin in the street dyin and he wouldn't even notice.

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
I don't tell you these things to show you what a great guy i am
you're too arrogant to be a great guy

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
What if everything I told you was not only 100% truthful but also 100% at your own finger tips?
sounds like you're making up a story and checking to see if we believe it
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 03:36:29 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 28, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
God sent fucking angels to a village once and instead of being...you know...angels,, the guy hide them in his house cause he was afraid that people could harm the angels and instead sent his daughter out to be fucked and fucked and fucked again.......angels did nothing to help...your god is a sick fuck and people that worship that sick fuck are sick fucks.

The craziness of the christian text is sometimes beyond comprehension. 

1.  Psalm 137:9  “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2.  2 Kings 18:27  “But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?”

3.  Deuteronomy 23:1  No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

"Crushed"?  Was that a thing then?  Does that mean that if I kick a Pope in the testicles he can't enter heaven?  That could create a whole possible sport.

There are many more, but brevity is sometimes best..
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 06:57:07 AM
Yes, the Hebrew scriptures are ... a bit realistic.  No Santa Claus at all.  Psalms in particular has "curses" on enemies like the one you quoted.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 08:20:32 AM
Quote from: Munch on June 28, 2017, 04:44:56 PM
It sounds to me that your kinda desperate for conversion.
how do you mean?
Quote
If God was real, what reason would anyone have to want to follow him? He's pretty much a villain in his own story
your right God is not right for everyone.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 08:20:32 AM
your right God is not right for everyone.
Why not?  He created them--and everything else (including all the diseases that afflict humankind--and animals and plants for that matter), so they, in total are doing what they were created to do.  Your god in your universe has to be for everyone.  But if he is not, then that is what god crafted, so it is god's fault not the one's left out. 

But then, god is a fiction so anything and everything you say god is is only fictional and tells us more about you and how twisted and ugly your mind is than about your fictional god.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:12:06 AM
Quote from: fencerider on June 29, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
sounds like you're making up a story and checking to see if we believe it

How so/why would I make anything up?

My theology is solid. I can break aprat any arguement thrown my way. I can answer any question through scripture.

Even my own narritives and commentaries stand up better than most work done by professional atheists.

I teach the God of the bible. The God of signs and wonders among a great number of other things. why would any of expect anything different?

I know how easy it is for me to be dismissed after faithfully telling you all of just a few things God has done for me, especially after you all have taken a theological beating. and for me it would be much easier to just press on to the next point. However chronologically this event was the next big outreach God had in store for me.

While it bears ridicule from those seeking a respite from my previous efforts to 'straighten out bad theology' I being faithful to what I have been given and my need to honor the truth put me here at the point of ridicule not to my advantage, but to show how God sometimes works with us.

I know most of you like to tell yourself Im stupid as well as each other inorder for you to more easily dismiss what you do not want to hear. However if by nothing more than experience (10 years working directly in this format with other atheists) knows tactically this is a bad move. Again I only make it because it is the truth and a 100% accurate representation of what happened. As such i have a responsibility to not only share it but stand behind what happened and be proud of it. Then I must tell you all that God has an army of messengers who's sole purpose is to do what was done for me. If and when you are ready.

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: pr126 on June 29, 2017, 09:27:10 AM
Religions are man’s inventions. Man created gods. Many thousands of them.

Thousands of gods are no longer worshiped, became myths, legends.


List of thousands of dead gods  (http://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 03:36:29 AM
The craziness of the christian text is sometimes beyond comprehension. 

1.  Psalm 137:9  “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
Psalms are songs. This particular song was written while the jews were in captivity/slaves, and were treated very badly. this song repersents their desire to turn the tables on their captors and for once smash their kids against the rocks.

Quote2.  2 Kings 18:27  “But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?”
You guys are fools/idiots for trying to read a dead dialect that you've never studied. here allow me to translate via the easy to read version:
27 But the commander said, “My master sent me to speak to everyone, not just to you and your master. I must also speak to those people sitting there on the wall. When we surround your city, they will suffer too. Like you, they will become so hungry they will eat their own waste and drink their own urine!”

28 Then the commander, shouting loudly in Hebrew,[f] gave this warning to them all:

Hear this message from the great king, the king of Assyria!

Do you get it now? The jews were about to taken under seige by the assyrians, so the assyrian king send his commander to tell them we are going to sorround this place and starve you out.. you will be so hungry you will eat and drink your own poop and urine.

Quote3.  Deuteronomy 23:1  No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
cermonial law.

Quote"Crushed"?  Was that a thing then?  Does that mean that if I kick a Pope in the testicles he can't enter heaven?  That could create a whole possible sport.
all it would mean is he could not be an OT jew in an official assembly.

btw crushed testicle= unich. a slave who could be trusted to tend to women.. they tended to be effeminate men.

Quote
There are many more, but brevity is sometimes best..
...or I could do this all day.

That said can you see what alittle context and understand can change everything? or- you could pull the same BS move on the US constitution and make the whole of America to seem a step below hell if you cherry pick it and take everything out of context as you have here.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 06:57:07 AM
Yes, the Hebrew scriptures are ... a bit realistic.  No Santa Claus at all.  Psalms in particular has "curses" on enemies like the one you quoted.

If you are an expert on these passages why wouldn't you straighten this guy out?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 09:46:34 AM
Had a sky pilot assure me that God was watching over me, back in 1971. He said he'd prove it by going on a ride with us. We brought him back in a black plastic bag.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:48:21 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
Why not?
not all belong to God. ever heard the parable of the sower? It is recorded in several of the gospels all pretty much say the same thing. in effect a land owner sowed good wheat seed in his field and at night an enemy sowed weeds/tares (which look like wheat till the harvest/the seeds are black and not edible.)  as the began to sprout a servant pointed out all the tares in the field and ask they land own if the should pull them out? The land owner said let them grow together, and at the harvest seperate the wheat from the tares and bring the wheat into the store house and burn the weeds.

So no, Not all who are here are 'wheat.'

QuoteHe created them--and everything else
and the devil introduced them into the 'field.'
Quote
(including all the diseases that afflict humankind--and animals and plants for that matter),
Again this is not a God controlled realm. This realm belong to man but was handed over to Satan. This is as close as Satan will ever get to controlling everything.
How do we know this world is run by Satan? 1 it says so in job. 2 in mat when Christ is tempted Satan final offer was to gift the whole world to Christ so He would not have to die for it... This 'temptation' would mean nothing if satan did not have power over what he promised.
Quote
so they, in total are doing what they were created to do.
indeed. your just confused about who implemented those things.

QuoteYour god in your universe has to be for everyone.
Sorry no.. you yourself are an excellent example of this.. Have you seen God? Has He sent you a messenger? Did He personally send word on how your life was to be used? God is clearly here for me as these things did indeed happen, yet they have not happened for you or those like you.. Then it would stand to reason that not everyone get to have access to God.
Quote
But if he is not, then that is what god crafted, so it is god's fault not the one's left out. 
Actuall no. The way it is now in this life even if a tare were to come to Christ Christ would let him in. We know this because of the 1000 year reign of Christ as described in the book of revelation. It describes a great number of (border line believers) siding with satan after the 1000 year reign of Christ was over. (satan was released from Hell) to skim the 'sour cream off the top' of the crock. To call back his tares/those who could not live with Christ/ God for eternity to rebell one last time.

Quote
But then, god is a fiction so anything and everything you say god is is only fictional and tells us more about you and how twisted and ugly your mind is than about your fictional god.
or he's not and you like me are going in for one hellva ride when this life is over.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 09:46:34 AM
Had a sky pilot assure me that God was watching over me, back in 1971. He said he'd prove it by going on a ride with us. We brought him back in a black plastic bag.

Was that Vietnam?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 10:04:12 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Was that Vietnam?
Let's say "South East Asia".
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
The general area is sufficient.  My thoughts to the sky pilot and I know the song...  I live near Washington DC.  I've been to the memorial many times.  The design and placement of it is perfect.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:12:06 AM


Even my own narritives and commentaries stand up better than most work done by professional atheists.



Professional atheists??  When the hell am I going to get my check???!!!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 10:36:04 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
The general area is sufficient.  My thoughts to the sky pilot and I know the song...  I live near Washington DC.  I've been to the memorial many times.  The design and placement of it is perfect.
Yep.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 10:57:52 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
Professional atheists??  When the hell am I going to get my check???!!!

Dawkins, harris, the hitch, carrier, maybe crowder ect...

You know guys who have original thoughts? those who write books.. who's job is to be atheist..

You know they guys you rip off when you ask your questions or feel that your right even though I show you to be oh, so wrong, yet for whatever reason can't defend their points?

Or did you not know those guys got paid to come up with the crap you all tend to plagiarize?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on June 29, 2017, 11:08:52 AM
I love watching theists be unintentionally ironic.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 10:36:04 AM
Yep.

On the other hand, your moving avatar is greatly annoying and distracting when I am composing a reply.  It actually makes me a bit dizzy.  Would you consider choosing one still image of the wonderful Calvin and stick with it?  One does hope that avatars are meaningful but not confusing while trying to think.  Just a request...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 11:51:26 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 10:57:52 AM
plagiarize?
Ah, you are familiar with what it is you do. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on June 29, 2017, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 11:09:38 AM
On the other hand, your moving avatar is greatly annoying and distracting when I am composing a reply.  It actually makes me a bit dizzy.  Would you consider choosing one still image of the wonderful Calvin and stick with it?  One does hope that avatars are meaningful but not confusing while trying to think.  Just a request...
Fuck sakes, get over it.

(https://i.imgur.com/joHaJki.png)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on June 29, 2017, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 10:57:52 AMOr did you not know those guys got paid to come up with the crap you all tend to plagiarize?
Wow, people getting paid to speak on a topic? What a revolutionary idea! Why, I'll bet you could set up entire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University) institutions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church) to facilitate such a thing.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 29, 2017, 12:06:12 PM
Fuck sakes, get over it.

(https://i.imgur.com/joHaJki.png)
HOLY FRISBEES, TEEN TITANGIRL!  It was a request, nothing more.  Have you never read about how meaningless repetitive motions can cause problems for some people? 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 12:55:38 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
If you are an expert on these passages why wouldn't you straighten this guy out?

I am not Bible based, just Bible literate.  I have a direct relationship to G-d ... as a Jewish prophet.  I predict you are going to continue to post the way you have been ;-)  The problem with being Bible based, is that both OT and NT were written by dirty old Jewish men, who were high at the time (on wine at least, but spiced wine ... existed too).  Some passages were created by scrying (looking into a black pool of calm water and having visions ... perhaps due to the spiced wine).  Nostradamus described this technique.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 29, 2017, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 11:09:38 AM
On the other hand, your moving avatar is greatly annoying and distracting when I am composing a reply.  It actually makes me a bit dizzy.  Would you consider choosing one still image of the wonderful Calvin and stick with it?  One does hope that avatars are meaningful but not confusing while trying to think.  Just a request...
If you click "reply" you don't see the avatar. If you do see it, scroll up until it's out of the window.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 01:11:40 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 12:25:23 PM
HOLY FRISBEES, TEEN TITANGIRL!  It was a request, nothing more.  Have you never read about how meaningless repetitive motions can cause problems for some people?

Hopefully it will induce epilepsy, and you will wake up and realize you aren't a bear ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 29, 2017, 11:08:52 AM
I love watching theists be unintentionally ironic.
(two posts ahead) do you have examples? (next post to you) are you saying I've plagiarized work fro other theists?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 29, 2017, 11:51:26 AM
Ah, you are familiar with what it is you do.
examples?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 01:25:15 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 29, 2017, 12:13:15 PM
Wow, people getting paid to speak on a topic? What a revolutionary idea! Why, I'll bet you could set up entire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University) institutions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church) to facilitate such a thing.
Preach it to mike sister.. He's the one who didn't know people Got paid to represent you guys.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 29, 2017, 02:09:17 PM
Our god is so benevolent he sent this fucking hornet to my shop to scare the shit out of me and send me on a poisoning mission of destruction.
https://youtu.be/lrhzjPfAPIQ
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 29, 2017, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:23:45 PM
If Paul Bunyan exists, so does Babe, his giant blue ox.  Look out below!  Giant cow patties!
You could probably grow some great shrooms in those!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 29, 2017, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 28, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
God sent fucking angels to a village once and instead of being...you know...angels,, the guy hide them in his house cause he was afraid that people could harm the angels and instead sent his daughter out to be fucked and fucked and fucked again.......angels did nothing to help...your god is a sick fuck and people that worship that sick fuck are sick fucks.
That didn't happen just once, either. It happened again in the 19th chapter of Judges. Only this time, instead of Sodom and Gomorrah, the guy cut his concubine into 12 easy pieces:


Judges 19 (KJV)

Quote1 And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.

2 And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months.

3 And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him.

4 And his father in law, the damsel's father, retained him; and he abode with him three days: so they did eat and drink, and lodged there.

5 And it came to pass on the fourth day, when they arose early in the morning, that he rose up to depart: and the damsel's father said unto his son in law, Comfort thine heart with a morsel of bread, and afterward go your way.

6 And they sat down, and did eat and drink both of them together: for the damsel's father had said unto the man, Be content, I pray thee, and tarry all night, and let thine heart be merry.

7 And when the man rose up to depart, his father in law urged him: therefore he lodged there again.

8 And he arose early in the morning on the fifth day to depart; and the damsel's father said, Comfort thine heart, I pray thee. And they tarried until afternoon, and they did eat both of them.

9 And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.

10 But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him.

11 And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it.

12 And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.

13 And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.

14 And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin.

15 And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.

16 And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites.

17 And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?

18 And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the Lord; and there is no man that receiveth me to house.

19 Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

20 And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on June 29, 2017, 06:42:26 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 10:57:52 AM
Dawkins, harris, the hitch, carrier, maybe crowder ect...

You know guys who have original thoughts? those who write books.. who's job is to be atheist..

You know they guys you rip off when you ask your questions or feel that your right even though I show you to be oh, so wrong, yet for whatever reason can't defend their points?

Or did you not know those guys got paid to come up with the crap you all tend to plagiarize?

That's funny coming from a guy who believes in a Bible full of plagiarized Pagan myths.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on June 29, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
I think he's starting to get his feathers ruffled
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on June 29, 2017, 06:55:23 PM
He should have his feathers plucked...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 08:11:52 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 29, 2017, 06:55:23 PM
He should have his feathers plucked...

In my alter-ego mode as Super Chicken Little Man ... I feel triggered.  Can I kick you in your nuggets ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 29, 2017, 09:00:06 PM
My personal opinion about babble thumpers, believe whatever you want, but keep it to yourself. I'm not in the least bit interested not even in the tiniest eensy weensy itty bitty bit.
I've been through it, cried and even attempted suicide over the bullshit of the babble and absolutely nothing, zilch, zero,  nodda happened. I begged and pleaded for some 'sign' to the point of wanting to die if nothing happened and still nothing happened. I finally gave up on the fantasy of some  benevolent big spooky in the sky and would rather shit in my pants and ride a bicycle in 110° heat 500 miles than have to go through that bullshit all over again.
It wasn't real then, it ain't real now and it ain't gonna be real in the future so please kindly shut the fuck up about it and keep your fantasies to yourself.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: pr126 on June 30, 2017, 04:46:44 AM

QuoteIt wasn't real then, it ain't real now and it ain't gonna be real in the future so please kindly shut the fuck up about it and keep your fantasies to yourself.
But the meme must be passed on, propagated. Otherwise it will cease to exist.
At least they don’t kill you if you reject it like the other cult that must not be named.

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 29, 2017, 06:42:26 PM
That's funny coming from a guy who believes in a Bible full of plagiarized Pagan myths.
such as?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
Quote from: Munch on June 29, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
I think he's starting to get his feathers ruffled
:panic:
oh noes, you found me out!!!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
such as?

You want me to share a link that you will not read and so you can say that I'm plagiarizing (because citing other peoples' work is totally what plagiarism is)?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:02:37 AM
You want me to share a link that you will not read and so you can say that I'm plagiarizing (because citing other peoples' work is totally what plagiarism is)?

I read everything sport that is why I'm usually a few steps ahead of you guys. (i've already been down this road a few times and can refute most of what you are going to claim by having you look at the source material... while yes the religions maybe older but the source material (like their bibles) will usually be much newer. making it possible for the older religion to plagiarize the bible.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
I read everything sport that is why I'm usually a few steps ahead of you guys.

Good one. I didn't know you were a comedian.

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:25:08 AM(i've already been down this road a few times and can refute most of what you are going to claim by having you look at the source material... while yes the religions maybe older but the source material (like their bibles) will usually be much newer. making it possible for the older religion to plagiarize the bible.

So you've already come to a conclusion that whatever sources I provide, they don't count. How convenient.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 12:48:23 PM
Too bad we can't toss this one in the same sack as Randy and let them fight it out ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 12:51:42 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 12:48:23 PM
Too bad we can't toss this one in the same sack as Randy and let them fight it out ;-)

Oh man. I would love to watch those two debate over which one is right. Two air heads completely certain in their myths, who treat others who don't agree with their unsupported claims like they're idiots, firing their empty claims at each other. I would pay to see that.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
Good one. I didn't know you were a comedian.

So you've already come to a conclusion that whatever sources I provide, they don't count. How convenient.

Not what i said.

I said a had this discussion with a legit paleontologist and richard dawkins want to be and in the end it came to the source material from the 'older religions' was much much 'newer' than the vastly older manuscripts of the bible. 2/3 of his examples went away just on that primise, and 1/2 of what was left did not really compare to anything in scripture. the remaining was empty conjecture desperatly trying to tie things like the flood or the tower or creation all together because all came down from a central religion...

Then the duh moment hit this guy like a ton of bricks...

you want to go down this road and experience the duh moment I will be happy to go through the motions with you till you get it.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 12:51:42 PM
Oh man. I would love to watch those two debate over which one is right. Two air heads completely certain in their myths, who treat others who don't agree with their unsupported claims like they're idiots, firing their empty claims at each other. I would pay to see that.

Here's the thing with that sport...

What is our greatest command?

Love our lord God with all of our Hearts mind Spirit and Srength.

Then love our neighbor as ourselves.

These two laws sum up everything a christian must do..

The first command is the very reason there were so many different denominations in the NT and why we have 30K now. Because we are all alittle different our differences over time and a great span of people will manifest themselves in large cultural discrepencies. So then allply this to God's first and greatest command. So then because we are all a little different that adds up to big differences over time and people our worship will change over time and people. so then to do our best for God will or can not ever be the same as we all change and because we are all different.

All we need is Jesus christ at the center of our religion to be under the new covenant he has provided and we have the freedom to do pretty much what we will so long as it fits those two greatest commands.

So is your guy right? am I right probably neither, but that's ok, because the same grace that covers us when we sin will abound that much more when we screw up doing our best for our God.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 06:14:49 PM
When you have this, you have the Holy Spirit ...

1 Corinthians 13:4-7New International Version (NIV)

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When you don't, you don't.  So far I have seen you violate most of this.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 01, 2017, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 06:14:49 PM
When you have this, you have the Holy Spirit ...

1 Corinthians 13:4-7New International Version (NIV)

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When you don't, you don't.  So far I have seen you violate most of this.

Seriously? I see the opposite. Love is patient. I have and will answer the same question asked by different people sever different times. when they don't get it I take it down a notch and continue to do so so long as they ask the question. not only that I do not respond to personal adhom attacks. I stick to the mission statment. that means about 1/3 of the attacks I receive go unanswered.

I don't envy any of you. I do not boast outside of what I am asked about. and even then I do not boast, just reporting what is asked even if it is perceived as such. (I can help how large the truth is.) the word angered here was originally the Hebrew word paroxynō which means to burn with anger. The only offense i feel is when one of you dares to judge God with some foolish ideology that you yourself can not pass a similar judgement. even then I do not burn against or hate any of you.

Like God ordering the destruction of a few hundred or even a few thousand ISIS equivalent kids. meanwhile your own belief in a woman's right to choose has you advocating the death of 1.5 billion kids from just 1972, roe v wade. that much hypocrisy is too much for me to endure, but even so I will let it go once I point out the foolishness in your logic or hypocritical thinking, unless that judgement is a reoccurring theme through out your argument/you keep pushing back..

Fools and hypocrites are NOT to expect much quarter, especially if the come hard judging Christianity and God. I will fashion a cord of whips out of the measure they use to judge God or the body and levy judgement against them. better me now than go before god with your selfrighteousness and be disciplined by him.

That said I will and have always treated each person according to their efforts in a given post. i look at each post separately from the last and don't drag in old feelings. meaning I keep no records of 'wrongs.' verse 6 and 7 is why I come at some of you so hard especially those who fancy themselves teachers. If you are not teaching the truth you must be shown for who you really are.

Ultimately the Agape shown by the Holy Spirit is the Agape' that is expected to be seen by you. I have seen both the carrot and the stick from the H/S and I show no different.

I am square in my faith old sport, why? because I know Jesus was also indewelt by the Same Holy Spirit. And His 'love' was the example mine is supposed to repersent.

So again look with me to how He treated those who opposed Him Spiritually and theologically. Look to how he treated his own disciples for being short of knowledge or overtly foolish/racist. look to how Christ defended the father and how he ripped apart the hypocrites. Look at how he tore into the bad leadership in the temple. All of which still done under the name of Agape of the Holy Spirit..

What you don't understand mr saducee is the second command is to love your neighbor as yourself, not love your neighbor as your neighbor wants to be loved. Meaning IF I am good with the carrot and stick from God then it is ok for me to inturn the carrot and stick with you, even if it makes you feel 'unloved' by me.

The pain and humiliation of the stick the sting of rebuke is weak douche bagginess/self righteousness being purged from the soul.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 01, 2017, 12:59:42 PM
Seriously? I see the opposite. Love is patient. I have and will answer the same question asked by different people sever different times. when they don't get it I take it down a notch and continue to do so so long as they ask the question. not only that I do not respond to personal adhom attacks. I stick to the mission statment. that means about 1/3 of the attacks I receive go unanswered.
You are a fucking liar.  You do nothing but attack--you seem to be fully in love with your fangs and claws .  You are the poster child--especially since your line of thought is so childlike --of the stupid, vapid, arrogant, dogmatic, nasty, ugly person who is the worst of the theists.  You are just too ugly and mean spirited to have anything to do with.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:46:12 PM
The first command is the very reason there were so many different denominations in the NT and why we have 30K now. Because we are all alittle different our differences over time and a great span of people will manifest themselves in large cultural discrepencies. So then allply this to God's first and greatest command. So then because we are all a little different that adds up to big differences over time and people our worship will change over time and people. so then to do our best for God will or can not ever be the same as we all change and because we are all different.
what happened to god challenging us because we have a false concept of god in our mind?

major contradiction Drich
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 01, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:02:13 PM
what happened to god challenging us because we have a false concept of god in our mind?

major contradiction Drich

If one is open to it, then G-d will challenge us, but we might also then draw the wrong conclusions.  The way to everlasting Life is narrow.  But I am not the gate keeper ... thank G-d!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
:panic:
oh noes, you found me out!!!
boy, there is nothing about you that surprises anyone here. You are just another in a long line of twits that make up excuses for each and every babble verse that science has destroyed. You have no facts, you offer nothing new, just the same tired twisted contortionist style of making up shit to cover your sorry babble. You are not impressive at all.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:26:42 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
I said a had this discussion with a legit paleontologist 

well of course you did, and I am sure he was destroyed by all the made up lies you have been yappin about here. We are not impressed by your so called "discussion with a legit paleontologist".....right..
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
I read everything..that is why I'm usually a few steps ahead of you guys.

I have three books of excuses that we are "armed" with to combat you nasty heathens. None of them are true of course, but YOU CAN"T PROVE THAT EITHER YOU ATHEIST TOOLS!! I have the babble and it is somewhat..kinda....if you know how to interpret it right and are trained by those who get paid to teach us...you will know that the babble is the absolute truth if you know how to read between the lines and outside the lines...and under them...and around them....but other than that..its the god spoken trufe!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 01, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
If one is open to it, then G-d will challenge us, but we might also then draw the wrong conclusions.  The way to everlasting Life is narrow.  But I am not the gate keeper ... thank G-d!
Really?  The way to everlasting life is narrow?  Hmmm.................let me ask Bugs about that.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 01, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 05:08:32 PM
Really?  The way to everlasting life is narrow?  Hmmm.................let me ask Bugs about that.

Bugs lives in a little hole in the ground, otherwise Elmer can easily get at him.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 01, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
Bugs lives in a little hole in the ground, otherwise Elmer can easily get at him.
I don't remember you saying much about the afterlife.  Do you really believe in there is an afterlife?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 02, 2017, 12:28:20 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 06:31:23 PM
I don't remember you saying much about the afterlife.  Do you really believe in there is an afterlife?

You have yet to take me seriously ... seriously!

I have said, we are dead now.  Of course that has meaning on multiple levels, but literalists can't think that way, either theists or atheists.

What I do believe is that materialism underplays what life is like, it violates Einstein's rule of "make things as simple as possible but no simpler".  Over simplification happens in theology too.  Whatever reality might be, and I make no claims to know what it might be ... it seems to me to operate on multiple levels at the same time.  Also we must cease at least in contemplation ... as to this linear time we inherited from the Medieval monks (that is why the mechanical clock was invented).  "Now" encompasses all time .. aka it is "eternity".  We are in "eternity" ... "now" ... aka eschaton, aka the living dead.  Because no person can encounter G-d and live .. and we are in the presence of G-d, so we must be dead.

This is rather important to me right now, I just composed and led the memorial for my mother today, who died on Tuesday.  One purpose of a Jewish funeral is "l'Chaim" or "to life".  My dad and mom are both here and not here.  And I suspect I am also here and not here as well.  In ancient Celtic lore, human death was birth to true life, hence the "wake".  Death is all about life, and life is all about death.  Don't try to think of them as two, but as one.  This is so appropriate to this string ... and the OP doesn't know of what he speaks ... but he will ... someday.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on July 02, 2017, 01:14:08 AM
Even the phrase in the title is nonsensical. When God shows up? Isn't God supposed to be omnipresent? How could he show up to a place he's already been? If his presence can be "felt" only some of the times, what does that say? Most likely, it says that your experiences of God's "presence" are emotional, all in your head, based on the power of suggestion. Those experiences are temporary because emotions are temporary. You don't see him "move" constantly because convenient coincidences that you give God credit for only happen rarely.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 02, 2017, 07:16:34 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 02, 2017, 01:14:08 AM
Even the phrase in the title is nonsensical. When God shows up? Isn't God supposed to be omnipresent? How could he show up to a place he's already been? If his presence can be "felt" only some of the times, what does that say? Most likely, it says that your experiences of God's "presence" are emotional, all in your head, based on the power of suggestion. Those experiences are temporary because emotions are temporary. You don't see him "move" constantly because convenient coincidences that you give God credit for only happen rarely.

Per Heraclitus .... everything is temporary.  Per Parmenides ... anything temporary is illusion.  Most people here follow Parmenides ... a S Italian-Greek theurgic priest ... and the originator of logic.  Most men can't deal with emotions, they can deal with the truth.  Perhaps women can't deal with the truth, but they can deal with emotions?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 02, 2017, 09:43:32 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 02, 2017, 12:28:20 AM
You have yet to take me seriously ... seriously!

I have said, we are dead now.  Of course that has meaning on multiple levels, but literalists can't think that way, either theists or atheists.

What I do believe is that materialism underplays what life is like, it violates Einstein's rule of "make things as simple as possible but no simpler".  Over simplification happens in theology too.  Whatever reality might be, and I make no claims to know what it might be ... it seems to me to operate on multiple levels at the same time.  Also we must cease at least in contemplation ... as to this linear time we inherited from the Medieval monks (that is why the mechanical clock was invented).  "Now" encompasses all time .. aka it is "eternity".  We are in "eternity" ... "now" ... aka eschaton, aka the living dead.  Because no person can encounter G-d and live .. and we are in the presence of G-d, so we must be dead.

This is rather important to me right now, I just composed and led the memorial for my mother today, who died on Tuesday.  One purpose of a Jewish funeral is "l'Chaim" or "to life".  My dad and mom are both here and not here.  And I suspect I am also here and not here as well.  In ancient Celtic lore, human death was birth to true life, hence the "wake".  Death is all about life, and life is all about death.  Don't try to think of them as two, but as one.  This is so appropriate to this string ... and the OP doesn't know of what he speaks ... but he will ... someday.
First, you have my heart felt sympathy--no, empathy, for I, too, have lost both my parents.  Inevitable, but painful nonetheless.

And I agree with most of what you said--subtract the 'god' crap, and I do.  Not only is life and death interlaced, but the 'now' is eternal.  I also think time is not the same; we live our lives to different clocks every day.  Some of my days flash by and some parts drag.  Some days are a flash and others go on for days.  But each is 'now' and forever.  What is real?  I don't know what actual reality is, but I do know that I fashion my 'reality' to be what I'd like it to be.  But I am not in total control of that, for the reality that surrounds me 'out' there intrudes upon the reality that is internal.  I influence both spheres to one degree or another, but fully control neither.  But I do think the real reality of death is being dead, which is being nothing.  Even though life and death are interlaced, death is not life; some life can spring from death, for that is the cycle of nature; death and decay lead to new life, and is needed for life. 

So, Baruch, subtract the god stuff, and we pretty much see things the same way.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mermaid on July 02, 2017, 10:52:29 AM
(https://pics.me.me/what-the-fuck-is-this-shit-19335509.png)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 03, 2017, 04:52:51 AM
I smile about "when" god shows up.  The assumption is like "when" unicorns show up...  What isn't going to happen doesn't concern me.  But it can sure make some chuckles...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Unbeliever on July 03, 2017, 08:17:54 PM
Quote from: pr126 on June 30, 2017, 04:46:44 AM
But the meme must be passed on, propagated. Otherwise it will cease to exist.
At least they don’t kill you if you reject it like the other cult that must not be named.


Well, mostly they don't - not anymore. But they will as soon as they can get enough power again. And they will - soon.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
You are a fucking liar.  You do nothing but attack--you seem to be fully in love with your fangs and claws .  You are the poster child--especially since your line of thought is so childlike --of the stupid, vapid, arrogant, dogmatic, nasty, ugly person who is the worst of the theists.  You are just too ugly and mean spirited to have anything to do with.

Sorry mike if that's all you see.

But I take rather great effort yo match timber and tone of the conversation to each person I deal with. so If i seem overly agressive that is because I have matched or exceeded your aggression. On the opposite end of the spectrum "Wendy" girl asked me to reconcile the old and new testament respectfully... and I again matched he efforts to keep the conversation civil.

I have been doing this for a very long time and some of you guys are like dogs. if you see your self as an alpha you won't/cant respect anything but another alpha. So when you bark I bark louder.. You back down i back down... just read posts not addressed to you should hve given you some clue that I don't treat everyone the same.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:22:19 AM
Quote from: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:02:13 PM
what happened to god challenging us because we have a false concept of god in our mind?

major contradiction Drich

Nupe.

Loving God how we see fit is an acceptable matter of salvation. one can be saved and never know God. Jesus Himself point this out.

God's challenge to you is to push beyond your comfort to find and ultimately serve Him.

In short you want to be saved... come as you are. You want to be blessed and serve God with power and authority seek God on his terms.

Salvation and Spiritual gifts are two very different things. Paul demonstrates that being gifted with the Spirit is not the same as accepting Jesus' atonement
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
boy, there is nothing about you that surprises anyone here. You are just another in a long line of twits that make up excuses for each and every babble verse that science has destroyed. You have no facts, you offer nothing new, just the same tired twisted contortionist style of making up shit to cover your sorry babble. You are not impressive at all.

That's not true. I gave you an extensive and comprehensive explanation to the day two question you asked based in a scientific explanation. But you ignore than and try and go for the collective/cliche' kill. wow, #lazythinker
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:26:11 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:26:42 PM
well of course you did, and I am sure he was destroyed by all the made up lies you have been yappin about here. We are not impressed by your so called "discussion with a legit paleontologist".....right..

what you don't think that paleontologists are apart of these forums? Or at least people who claim to be paleontologist are apart of these forums???
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 05, 2017, 11:31:31 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:15:51 AM
Sorry mike if that's all you see.

So when you bark I bark louder.. You back down i back down...
Yes, I've noticed that.  That you are a follower not a leader.  And it is clear that you came here for only one reason.  To feed your bloated and oh, so self-centered ego.  You are very good at that, tho. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 11:49:18 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
I have three books of excuses that we are "armed" with to combat you nasty heathens. None of them are true of course, but YOU CAN"T PROVE THAT EITHER YOU ATHEIST TOOLS!! I have the babble and it is somewhat..kinda....if you know how to interpret it right and are trained by those who get paid to teach us...you will know that the babble is the absolute truth if you know how to read between the lines and outside the lines...and under them...and around them....but other than that..its the god spoken trufe!

The bible reads just like any other translated document. what the problem is??? oh, that's right unga bunga, you no like not be able to read literally. unga bunga, you not like to think bout how bible not literary text first write in english... unga bunga unga bunga, make you angry when someone so-posed to be dumber, has 20 year education in 2 foreign language, histroy on at least 2 if not a whole mess more cultural studies on you, because unga bunga it make it hard to seem smarter for you.

No I get it captain cave man. and for all of this you think I lord these things over you, but I don't. even now I simply use my experience to simply remind you, you can't just dismiss me/us off the cuff. why because the bible was written in at least two other languages and comes from a span of different culture. Not that I am a master but each time a culture or different langge is involved you must take into consideration how it changed the contextual translation. (keep in mind there are not litter translations outside of google translate) you ever go on face book and someone posted something in a different language and you can 'translate' and the syntax grammar and verbage is all wrong? that is a literal translation. Most bibles are not a literal translation. it is a contextual translation with a strong effort to be as close to the original text as possible. which means you have to do some digging in the language and culture to have a good grasp on what is being discussed.

...just like another other translated text.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 02, 2017, 01:14:08 AM
Even the phrase in the title is nonsensical.
first you must unlearn what you have learn... So sure are you..

QuoteWhen God shows up?
When God show up refers to an awareness to God.

QuoteIsn't God supposed to be omnipresent?
even if God is and always been there it doesn't mean you are privy to God.
so from a first person perspective (even if God has been there all along) it woul seem God came from no where to help you.


QuoteHow could he show up to a place he's already been?
Again this was a narrative, based on first person perception. So again even if God always was, from your perspective it will be as if he just showed up, and or vanished as it was with me.

QuoteIf his presence can be "felt" only some of the times, what does that say?
I never mentioned that. Because God is not a feeling.

QuoteMost likely, it says that your experiences of God's "presence" are emotional, all in your head, based on the power of suggestion.
very nice borat, now what if God is not a feeling but send a messenger/man instead.

Quote
Those experiences are temporary because emotions are temporary. You don't see him "move" constantly because convenient coincidences that you give God credit for only happen rarely.
did you even read the op before you said anything?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 05, 2017, 11:31:31 AM
Yes, I've noticed that.  That you are a follower not a leader.  And it is clear that you came here for only one reason.  To feed your bloated and oh, so self-centered ego.  You are very good at that, tho.

in order to lead sometimes one must follow at first.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2017, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
in order to lead sometimes one must follow at first.

Sorry, I don't' think anyone is choosing to follow you.  But yes, one has to be aware of the G-d that is already here/now.  It is a matter of perception.  A materialist has a stilted perception, that everything is ... material.  If all you have is a hammer, then everything must be a nail.  However since perception is partly subjective, partly objective .. there is no possible agreement, except between empirical rationalists.  This excludes the majority of us who are un-empirical irrationalists.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 05, 2017, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
in order to lead sometimes one must follow at first.
No shit, Charlie.  You are just chock full of trite little sayings, aren't you. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 04:15:18 AM
It is amusing to see so many posts from someone with so lfew facts to provide.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:50:22 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 05, 2017, 01:07:08 PM
Sorry, I don't' think anyone is choosing to follow you.  But yes, one has to be aware of the G-d that is already here/now.  It is a matter of perception.  A materialist has a stilted perception, that everything is ... material.  If all you have is a hammer, then everything must be a nail.  However since perception is partly subjective, partly objective .. there is no possible agreement, except between empirical rationalists.  This excludes the majority of us who are un-empirical irrationalists.

I have hammers a plenty I also have several dozen other tools at my disposal as well. 3 of you are nail and thus get the hammer more often than not. however I have run across several other fasteners and used the right tool for the Job. as a result i have in two1/2 weeks have several hundred exchanges with people who 'follow what I have to say.

I know that does not fit your narrative Mr. Sadducee, but so what... Can't we all just get along? I am not nor will I ever fish in your lake of OT Judaism and your nonquests for non followers.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 04:15:18 AM
It is amusing to see so many posts from someone with so lfew facts to provide.

I have quoted and cited at almost a 2 to one ratio, and 100% of the time provide citations when asked for them. I don't all the time because the weak minded would then accuse me of preaching!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on July 06, 2017, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
in order to lead sometimes one must follow at first.

So you're choosing to follow an atheist you met online...?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 12:05:04 PM
He is so so stupid that he is beyond any use, even as a chew toy.  I'm done with this sewer fountianhead of filth.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 12:05:04 PM
He is so so stupid that he is beyond any use, even as a chew toy.  I'm done with this sewer fountianhead of filth.

I have him on "ignore".  Just as I generally ignore the JW door-bangers.  More peaceful that way, and I talk to a better class of primates.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 05, 2017, 05:34:03 PM
No shit, Charlie.  You are just chock full of trite little sayings, aren't you.
That is call Wiz-to-the-Dum Yo!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 03:51:10 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 06, 2017, 11:43:10 AM
So you're choosing to follow an atheist you met online...?
I Do to a degree.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 03:52:41 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
I have him on "ignore".  Just as I generally ignore the JW door-bangers.  More peaceful that way, and I talk to a better class of primates.
You seem to answer to an aweful lot of posts from me... even though I have been placed on your 'ignore list.'
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 06, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
You've obviously never used the ignore list. Your posts don't vanish from sight. They're just compressed into a little message: "You are ignoring this user. [Show me the post.]" Clicking on the bracketed text expands the post.

It provides a layer of shielding between you and the undesirable.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 06, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
You've obviously never used the ignore list. Your posts don't vanish from sight. They're just compressed into a little message: "You are ignoring this user. [Show me the post.]" Clicking on the bracketed text expands the post.

It provides a layer of shielding between you and the undesirable.

Was that advice aimed at anyone in particular?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 06, 2017, 11:52:02 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 28, 2017, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah, God's one of those folks you'd hate to meet in a dark alley...
Dark alleys get a bad rap.
There's no place safer than your average dark alley.
Think about it. Hoods, hookers, drug dealers and the like don't typically hang out in dark alleys. There's simply nobody there to rob or sell drugs or sex to.  You want a nice safe place to rest your weary drunken self at 3 am? Find a nice,  out of the way dark alley and sleep well. Rats and bugs not withstanding..
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: pr126 on July 07, 2017, 01:15:25 AM
Man created god in his own image.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:31:32 AM
Quote from: pr126 on July 07, 2017, 01:15:25 AM
Man created god in his own image.

And we are evil bastards.  But that doesn't let G-d off the hook (cross).
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:33:06 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 06, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
You've obviously never used the ignore list. Your posts don't vanish from sight. They're just compressed into a little message: "You are ignoring this user. [Show me the post.]" Clicking on the bracketed text expands the post.

It provides a layer of shielding between you and the undesirable.

Like Zaphod Beeblebrox's "threat glasses".  If there is a threat, they go dark, so he doesn't have to see the threat and piss his pants.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:36:45 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:50:22 AM
I have hammers a plenty I also have several dozen other tools at my disposal as well. 3 of you are nail and thus get the hammer more often than not. however I have run across several other fasteners and used the right tool for the Job. as a result i have in two1/2 weeks have several hundred exchanges with people who 'follow what I have to say.

I know that does not fit your narrative Mr. Sadducee, but so what... Can't we all just get along? I am not nor will I ever fish in your lake of OT Judaism and your nonquests for non followers.

Do you philosophize with a hammer, Mr Nietzsche?  Your esteem for obvious frauds like Creation Museum and Bible Land Amusement Park ... tells me you are an obvious fraud.  What national security agency pays you to post here?  CNN?

People who are secure in their own beliefs don't need followers to bolster their insecurity.  I understand Jesus much more than you do.  Christianity is how one avoids dealing with Jesus not how one does deal with Jesus.

And no, the Jewish Temple was completely ineffective .. even Jesus wasted his time there.  Just ask John the Baptist.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 07, 2017, 11:40:21 AM
When god shows up, he will be like -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LteMjbbiWLo
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 07, 2017, 01:22:32 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:36:45 AM
Do you philosophize with a hammer, Mr Nietzsche?  Your esteem for obvious frauds like Creation Museum and Bible Land Amusement Park ... tells me you are an obvious fraud.  What national security agency pays you to post here?  CNN?

People who are secure in their own beliefs don't need followers to bolster their insecurity.  I understand Jesus much more than you do.  Christianity is how one avoids dealing with Jesus not how one does deal with Jesus.

And no, the Jewish Temple was completely ineffective .. even Jesus wasted his time there.  Just ask John the Baptist.

How easy for you is it to dismiss a straw man of your own making? Then have the nerve to call me a fraud. typical Sadducee behavior.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 07, 2017, 01:22:32 PM
How easy for you is it to dismiss a straw man of your own making? Then have the nerve to call me a fraud. typical Sadducee behavior.

You quoted a Bible Land amusement park and didn't deny the Creation Museum when I mentioned that in passing.  Your failure to acknowledge those frauds ... speaks volumes.  So I think you are the straw man, remember ... Oz.  He was in search of a brain ;-)  And yes, I have chutzpah to spare.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 06, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
You've obviously never used the ignore list. Your posts don't vanish from sight. They're just compressed into a little message: "You are ignoring this user. [Show me the post.]" Clicking on the bracketed text expands the post.

It provides a layer of shielding between you and the undesirable.

I take quite a bit of pride in the idea the I have Never ever "ignored anyone." Ever. I take on all challengers and all questions. for as along as it takes (gift of the holy Spirit/long suffering.) I started this person to person which usally ended with I will get back to you and me taking a note then spending a week to research and then I would deliver a few page response. most people did not even care. a week after the fact, but I did. This later rolled over into this format and I took a vow to get to everyone who was seriously asking me a question.

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: pr126 on July 07, 2017, 01:15:25 AM
Man created god in his own image.
Unt?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 05:04:11 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:36:45 AM
Do you philosophize with a hammer, Mr Nietzsche?
No I am a man of my own doing. I do not need other men to blaze my path or to put words into my mouth. Thanks, but no thanks.
Quote
  Your esteem for obvious frauds like Creation Museum and Bible Land Amusement Park ... tells me you are an obvious fraud.
wow that seemed like a random criticism.. I do believe you think it drives more hurt and meaning than it does... Why? Because with my amusment part degree I have corrected you with citation almost 1/2 dozen times now..

Better to be a successful doctor in a second or third world nation than to be a failure in your profession with a highly esteemed education behind you...

Do you feel that???? That sport is how you 'burn someone.' To argue origins is an elitist tactic.. If I have to explain how that is not a good thing to you then really maybe you should go back to teaching your swill to the masses... Or rather Those who like you, don't know what elitism and social ranking broods.
Quote
What national security agency pays you to post here?  CNN?
Actually your mom has been concerned since you turn to OT Judaism... ( lol I got a yo mama joke in on ya)
Quote
People who are secure in their own beliefs don't need followers to bolster their insecurity.
Then why oh why oh great Sadducee do you teach OT Judaism to these 'good people?' after all you have said many many times that you have no such commission by god to do so... Or are you speaking to the other OT Sadducees in this atheist forum???
Quote
I understand Jesus much more than you do.
yes my Sadducee, as with tradition all Sadducees and Pharisees alike knew more about Christ than apparently than Jesus did as well. I can't imagine how or why you would be worried enough to remind me of this to begin with.. Because once I identified your religious affiliation I accepted that you would automatically know more about the messiah than God Himself. So keep calm, and Sadducee on.

 
QuoteChristianity is how one avoids dealing with Jesus not how one does deal with Jesus.
Christianity is simply put the name of several different types of Jesus Christ centered religions. I do not teach religion. I do not teach ceremony. I do not teach tradition or chant prayer. I simply answer questions and provide clarity concerning the God of the bible with the authority given me to do so.

Quote
And no, the Jewish Temple was completely ineffective
which one?
Quote
.. even Jesus wasted his time there.
herod's temple was a symbol of corruption and compromise. Christ spending time there showed He was not afraid to step into the viper's nest and spit at them in the eyes and have the ability to walk away as many times as He did./Showing He had power over those who had power in the corrupt temple (the Pharisees and seduces.)

Quote
Just ask John the Baptist.
I think He would take my side on this.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 05:22:40 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 01:53:08 PM
You quoted a Bible Land amusement park and didn't deny the Creation Museum when I mentioned that in passing.  Your failure to acknowledge those frauds ... speaks volumes.  So I think you are the straw man, remember ... Oz.  He was in search of a brain ;-)  And yes, I have chutzpah to spare.

I quoted the Zion's hope and dr. Marv Rosenthal. you are a smart boy. you can clearly see Dr Rosenthal does not own anything tied to Zion's hope. which means you are just trying to bait me. I didn't take the bait sport. rather I took you lure and tossed it back citing that you are stretching your facts far too long to cover the accusations you have made.

The Holy Land Experience simply lent out the scriptorium and a scale model of the city of Jerusalem at the time of Christ.

Like it or not bubbla Dr. Rosenthal kinda got his shiz-nit together and I understand you do not like him because he is a turn coat jew who's mission is to turn modern day jews. His ability to use such facilities and have access to hundreds of original manuscripts on display and digitized is a very effective teaching tool.. Now multiply that by IDK 2 or 3 years and you have a "clown collage" upstart correcting you the great Sadducee of atheist forums.com with proper citation and exegesis of scripture.

So again old sport, what is better to study under the master (debatable-tor) like you did and fail come up short on the 1/2 a dozen spot checks I did on your claims, or...  graduate a clown collage as you are pointing out, and wiping the floor with the you oh greatly educated one???

Maybe in all of your great knowledge of Jesus you might be able to recognize something Paul said playing out right here and now.. "God takes the foolish things of the world to confound and humiliate the 'wise.'"

Or are you not calling me a fool because my mentor does not meet up with an elitists standard???
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 09, 2017, 08:21:25 PM
Your words are yours, yet you claim a mentor.  Can't have it both ways.  You must be an AI random word bot.  Semi-random combinations of words mentioned in previous posts.  The old Eliza AI program and I had a more interesting conversation than you can provide ;-(
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 09, 2017, 10:05:59 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 05:04:11 PM

   Christianity is .. the name of several different types of Jesus Christ centered religions. ... I simply answer questions and provide clarity concerning the God of the bible with the authority given me to do so.

Although the babble is clearly written to be understood by man...some proclaim to have a "better" understanding of it.....5 dollars please.  So speaketh the authority given to yourself....give me money bitches and let me tell you about the REAL god....LOLOLOL.....evangelical liar..
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on July 09, 2017, 10:40:34 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 05:04:11 PMI simply answer questions and provide clarity concerning the God of the bible with the authority given me to do so.

Ask a cop to prove their authority to enforce the law, and they will show you their badge. But you claim authority and have no badge to show. You claim to serve an invisible god that you cannot prove exists, much less talks to you. And yet you expect us to just take your word for it. No thank you. If you have proof, present it. Otherwise, get lost.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: fencerider on July 10, 2017, 02:12:07 AM
clown collage? a lot of people are afraid of one clown and you want a collage??? step over Speilburg you are no longer needed
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:36:44 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 09, 2017, 08:21:25 PM
Your words are yours, yet you claim a mentor.  Can't have it both ways.  You must be an AI random word bot.  Semi-random combinations of words mentioned in previous posts.  The old Eliza AI program and I had a more interesting conversation than you can provide ;-(
Sure you can.

The mentor teaches the student how to vet his own thoughts through the many different primary and secondary source materials that support translation and underscores the history found in scripture.

The mentor's job is not to teach what to think but how to think and how to shape original thought to jive with the bible.

I can only imagine why you think a mentor's job is to program thought into a follower.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:41:39 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 09, 2017, 10:05:59 PM
Although the babble is clearly written to be understood by man...some proclaim to have a "better" understanding of it.....5 dollars please.  So speaketh the authority given to yourself....give me money bitches and let me tell you about the REAL god....LOLOLOL.....evangelical liar..

Actually it is not meant to be understood by the common person. The OT was only written and kept by the priests of the temple, and maybe a regional synogog. the NT were written and held to the leaders of individual churches. no one else had a copy. Then for a 1400 years it was translated into a copy only the clergy could read and write. It wasn't titll these last few hundred years did people get copies. then look what happened to the church it schismed like 30K times.

That said we can be given understand through the same holy Spirit who wrote and kept the bible if we so see sch understanding. However without the Holy Spirit's direction you would be hopelessly lost.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:58:00 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 09, 2017, 10:40:34 PM
Ask a cop to prove their authority to enforce the law, and they will show you their badge. But you claim authority and have no badge to show. You claim to serve an invisible god that you cannot prove exists, much less talks to you. And yet you expect us to just take your word for it. No thank you. If you have proof, present it. Otherwise, get lost.

My 'badge' comes in the way of the theological questions most of you are afraid to challenge me with now, and why you are attacking my character instead.

I have shaken most of you from your theological foundations to the point you would rather drop any formal theological debate and try and unerve me by ad hoc/adhom attack. Or you try and red herring or strawman off topic. Or most of you ask an "Impossible to answer" question and I never hear from them again.

Not one of you is willing to go blow for blow on any theological issue anymore... not even your 'heavy hitters' on sure fire end to all atheist arguments of "evolution." you all now avoid that subject like a plague. why? because you can't even come close to providing an answer that topples The observation I was given.

Why? because you are going up against God's answers sport. you see hear and recognize the authority from which I speak in and on theological matters. As the answers I provide at the core are super simple to understand, concise, they eliminate all formally known paradoxes and do not create new ones. What man can do that??? None! As those words often come directly from the Holy Spirit, which if I were a God hater or avoider would scare the Hell out of me too.

"So then lets attack the person of Drich because what he says can't be true unless all of us... are *gasp wrong?!?!?"

So yeah keep questioning me my authority, mental stability, knowledge, my whatever and avoid the subject matters I bring up like the plague, because despite what you may say outwardly in trying to destroy the message by destroying the messenger, your inability or unwillingness to have a "Christianity based conversation in the appropriate area of this forum speaks volumes to the 'Authority' I bring to you in my answers and clarifications.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 10, 2017, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:36:44 AM
Sure you can.

The mentor teaches the student how to vet his own thoughts through the many different primary and secondary source materials that support translation and underscores the history found in scripture.

The mentor's job is not to teach what to think but how to think and how to shape original thought to jive with the bible.

I can only imagine why you think a mentor's job is to program thought into a follower.

Unlike fake prophets and fake messiahs, I seek no followers.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 10, 2017, 02:32:30 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:41:39 AM
Actually it is not meant to be understood by the common person. The OT was only written and kept by the priests of the temple, and maybe a regional synogog. the NT were written and held to the leaders of individual churches. no one else had a copy. Then for a 1400 years it was translated into a copy only the clergy could read and write. It wasn't titll these last few hundred years did people get copies. then look what happened to the church it schismed like 30K times.

That said we can be given understand through the same holy Spirit who wrote and kept the bible if we so see sch understanding. However without the Holy Spirit's direction you would be hopelessly lost.

I know the Holy Spirit, but I don't know you.  You are unlike the Holy Spirit that I know.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 10, 2017, 02:30:45 PM
Unlike fake prophets and fake messiahs, I seek no followers.

What are you talking about? do you not understand the term "vet?" as in finding support in the primary and secondary materials that support the translation of words and phrases and the material that supports the culture and history?? False profits do not do this. they look to substitute the truth I have been taught to seek with the lie of tradition and or doctrine.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 10, 2017, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
What are you talking about? do you not understand the term "vet?" as in finding support in the primary and secondary materials that support the translation of words and phrases and the material that supports the culture and history?? False profits do not do this. they look to substitute the truth I have been taught to seek with the lie of tradition and or doctrine.

QED
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 10, 2017, 02:43:25 PM
QED

So if you understand the term vet... then how does that equate to being a false profit???
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 10, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 09:41:39 AM
Actually it is not meant to be understood by the common person.

Finally some truth. It was not written to be understood by the common person because once if was, then people started to realize what a piece of shit it is. The truth is, once common people got their hands on it, it went off the tracks and the promise of making the priests rich and powerful failed but for those who had enough money to buy the army to smite non-believers into believing.

The babble was not the word of a god, it was the word of shysters and thieves. It took the sword and gun to spread the word. The babble had NO power to convince people once they read it. They had to be threatened and/or executed into "believing". Grow up.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 10, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
Finally some truth. It was not written to be understood by the common person because once if was, then people started to realize what a piece of shit it is. The truth is, once common people got their hands on it, it went off the tracks and the promise of making the priests rich and powerful failed but for those who had enough money to buy the army to smite non-believers into believing.

The babble was not the word of a god, it was the word of shysters and thieves. It took the sword and gun to spread the word. The babble had NO power to convince people once they read it. They had to be threatened and/or executed into "believing". Grow up.

Or... The common person could not read till about 100 years ago you stupid female dog. So then how could it be written to anyone but an elite?

when do you people actually start all of this "thinking" you keep bragging about?

Seriously, you walked right into that one with out any thought except to the self righteous banter you were looking to proudly display!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Sylar on July 10, 2017, 05:56:04 PM
When 'god' shows up... he'll have a spot waiting just for him at ICC to answer for war crimes and crimes against humanity including but not limited to mass murder and genocide, or conspiracy to commit either.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 11, 2017, 07:16:34 AM
Quote from: pr126 on July 07, 2017, 01:15:25 AM
Man created god in his own image.

And I think Man used the bad brother-in-law as an example.  Seriously, you read almost any religious text and the deity involved is a petulant but powerful child, thin-skinned, subject to temper-tantrums, and ready to overturn the table on a whim.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 11, 2017, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Sylar on July 10, 2017, 05:56:04 PM
When 'god' shows up... he'll have a spot waiting just for him at ICC to answer for war crimes and crimes against humanity including but not limited to mass murder and genocide, or conspiracy to commit either.

Actually not yet.. 'We' are usally greeted with gratefulness and open arms.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 11, 2017, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 11, 2017, 07:16:34 AM
And I think Man used the bad brother-in-law as an example.  Seriously, you read almost any religious text and the deity involved is a petulant but powerful child, thin-skinned, subject to temper-tantrums, and ready to overturn the table on a whim.
Sound like my kind of guy! Not some Puss granting some douche bag's wishes because he "tried" in church and if he didn't get his wish granted he would hold his breath, make fun of Christians and leave the church forever!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 11, 2017, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 10, 2017, 05:26:59 PM
Or... The common person could not read till about 100 years ago
aww., look at the babbleshitter..first he proclaims the babble wasn't supposed to be read by ordinary men but to be "interpreted" by those who profit from it, and then he brags that if only they could have read sooner they would have figured out the bullsit earlier.

Why are we arguing with a babbleshitter about the babble? It is a fictional work that has been proven babbleshit.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 12, 2017, 03:09:33 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 11, 2017, 07:38:13 PM
aww., look at the babbleshitter..first he proclaims the babble wasn't supposed to be read by ordinary men but to be "interpreted" by those who profit from it, and then he brags that if only they could have read sooner they would have figured out the bullsit earlier.

Why are we arguing with a babbleshitter about the babble? It is a fictional work that has been proven babbleshit.
I it had been then we would not have anything to talk about.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 12, 2017, 09:15:56 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 12, 2017, 03:09:33 PM
I it had been then we would not have anything to talk about.
oh it has been....you have chosen to ignore intelligence in favor of superstition. That is the simplicity of it. Rather poor though, it recognizes the current trend in education. America is failing fast because ignorance wants to promote ignorance. We won't go down without a fight though.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Sal1981 on July 12, 2017, 09:50:13 PM
When god shows up, let him tell me, not you.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 12, 2017, 09:15:56 PM
oh it has been....you have chosen to ignore intelligence in favor of superstition. That is the simplicity of it. Rather poor though, it recognizes the current trend in education. America is failing fast because ignorance wants to promote ignorance. We won't go down without a fight though.

If you can not recognize the research and the commitment to truth as the ultimate end to intelligence, then I want no part of your version of intelligence. Because if you are not able to recognize the work and the ability to translate from two dead languages, or if you will not considered the fact that I have reference many historical point od data via web site or the scientific data concerning current and Saturn V programs thus shutting down three of your peers failed attempts to accurately describe NASA's redundancy then and now, then your definition of 'intelligence' can only be what intelligent people would consider brain washing.

So rather than measure ones ability to research cite and deliver a message based in establish history, fact, or linguistics, Your dumb down version of the word intelligent means to only agree with what you find 'smart' and to not question you.

So no thanks tom Hanks I will not be doing that even if you call me bad names.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 12, 2017, 09:50:13 PM
When god shows up, let him tell me, not you.

When God shows up. YOU will be the one who bends the knee and confesses wit your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You won't need me. beside it would have been too late at that moment anyway.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Sal1981 on July 13, 2017, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
When God shows up. YOU will be the one who bends the knee and confesses wit your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You won't need me. beside it would have been too late at that moment anyway.
Did you not read what I wrote?

Sendt fra min SM-G920F med Tapatalk

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 13, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
When God shows up.  You won't need me. beside it would have been too late at that moment anyway.
No one needs you now, blowhard.  Talk about a puffed up shirt--I have seldom seen a theist so much me, me, me..................and all the time.  Really, we don't need you and never did--and never will.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 13, 2017, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
When God shows up. YOU will be the one who bends the knee and confesses wit your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You won't need me. beside it would have been too late at that moment anyway.

When Stalin shows up ... off to the Gulag with you!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 13, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 13, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
No one needs you now, blowhard.  Talk about a puffed up shirt--I have seldom seen a theist so much me, me, me..................and all the time.  Really, we don't need you and never did--and never will.
Quite ironic, because they're supposed to be humble. The again, their god is only an extension of themselves anyway.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 13, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
No one needs you now, blowhard.  Talk about a puffed up shirt--I have seldom seen a theist so much me, me, me..................and all the time.  Really, we don't need you and never did--and never will.

Damned if i do Damned more if I don't.

I was ask what 3 times to tell my story/my use of talents/ow has God blessed me, the work I've done for God ect.. So I did. What makes any of this bragging to you?

What if it is the simple truth?

Should I then Hide my light under a bush so you who favors darkness should not feel ashamed by the works I've done for God in the light?

Do you/did you really think that a man in true open and honest service to God for as much time as I've been would live a life = to or less than the average atheist? I mean if their was no God, yes... But, again there is and I have been empowered far above and beyond what I would normally be able to bear.. Again not me but God who strengthens me.

I did not lead with these stories or my personal success, I was asked repeatedly and challenged when I did not answer. So again if you want to see my light here it is, not mine but God who given this to me to care for. That said I haven't shared 1/2 of the amazing/signs and wonders I have experienced.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 13, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Quite ironic, because they're supposed to be humble. The again, their god is only an extension of themselves anyway.

What about what I have shared here is not humble? Or do you not understand the word?

You seem to think being Humble is having no self worth or dignity. Humility is the state of being of low social, administrative, religious or political rank. To have a low value on self importance.

How many times have I said I am not special, that what God has given me has been offered to absolutly everyone elses? that my talents my belief are my own that God tailored to me, and God has promised to do the same exact thing for you! In a way that may mean nothing to me but means everything to you.

Again for me God sent me to Hell, you may not need this stick of Hell maybe you are one who needs the carrot of a lottery win or the carrot of an awesome wife. Who am I to say? I am simply happy/joyed for what I have and want to share it with you. I do not come to you as one with God's infinite wisdom, but I have been given a card to heaven's library and have access to God's knowledge. All you need do is ask a question and we can both see how it works!

I have said over and over and over again, that all I am is of God and if there is pride in anything is that God is with me. If that is what you see and think is bad then so be it. As having Pride in God is NEVER wrong!!!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 13, 2017, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 03:54:48 PM


So again if you want to see my light here it is, .........
Look, Sport, you don't have a light to shine--in fact you are the prince of darkness.  and why don't you spread your darkness somewhere else? 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 13, 2017, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
What about what I have shared here is not humble? Or do you not understand the word?
I certainly don't understand your usage of it.

Quote from: Drich0150
How many times have I said I am not special, that what God has given me has been offered to absolutly everyone elses? that my talents my belief are my own that God tailored to me,
There. Right there. That's where any spectre of humility disappears and becomes arrogance. You have been given talent by the fucking creator of the universe, the most ultimate being that you have conjured in your mind. How could such a notion be wrong?

Quote from: Drich0150
and God has promised to do the same exact thing for you!
And if I were to accept that reasoning, that would make me arrogant, too. In a way, your fellow Christians have one thing right: nobody deserves heaven. Then again, this is true in many senses of that statement.

Quote from: Drich0150
In a way that may mean nothing to me but means everything to you.
Again, you arrogantly presume the worth of your 'knowledge,' that it means "everything" to me. How are you humble, to presume to know what your knowledge is worth to me?

Quote from: Drich0150
Again for me God sent me to Hell,
I thought you only go to hell after you die, and you are almost certainly not dead. Unless you mean being sent here? Sorry, chum, but if this is hell for you, you have a low bar for suffering.

Quote from: Drich0150
you may not need this stick of Hell maybe you are one who needs the carrot of a lottery win or the carrot of an awesome wife. Who am I to say? I am simply happy/joyed for what I have and want to share it with you.
The problem is that you are sharing something when it is not welcome. That's simply rude, and you are presuming upon us by continuing past the point where you are welcome to share. It is not something a humble person does, to presume that his want to share anything trumps another person wanting him to keep it to himself.

Quote from: Drich0150
I do not come to you as one with God's infinite wisdom, but I have been given a card to heaven's library and have access to God's knowledge. All you need do is ask a question and we can both see how it works!
So you have access to your all-knowing god-thing's knowledge, that's not to be questioned. If this is 'humility', this is a strange sense of the word that doesn't match anything I am familiar with.

Quote from: Drich0150
I have said over and over and over again, that all I am is of God and if there is pride in anything is that God is with me. If that is what you see and think is bad then so be it. As having Pride in God is NEVER wrong!!!
That's exactly what's wrong with it, and it shows up in every aspect of your behavior. You think that your mission to share what you know of your god trumps our desire to be left alone by the likes of you. Once more, how are you humble?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on July 14, 2017, 03:42:27 AM
Sorry, Dick. If God is love, then you are far from the point where can claim that God is all you are. All you have is arrogance, and a god of your own creation that you use to give ultimate authority over your stupid imaginations.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 03:49:20 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 12, 2017, 09:15:56 PM
oh it has been....you have chosen to ignore intelligence in favor of superstition. That is the simplicity of it. Rather poor though, it recognizes the current trend in education. America is failing fast because ignorance wants to promote ignorance. We won't go down without a fight though.

Personally, I think it wrong to suggest that atheists wouldn't have anything to talk about unless theists were around.  There are a number of threads here that don't actually involve theisms.  And I enjoy them.  I mostly just want to discuss subjects without a constant barrage of religious crap getting in the way.

Sure, it is fun to destroy a poorly-made theistic post from time to time, but it is really too easy and gets boring after enough years.  I mean, how many times to you want to respond to "God made you and all the universe" before you gag each time you see a new post on it?

And "new" arguments against Natural Selection?  Please, spare me.  Been there, done that.  All fails...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 12:31:03 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 13, 2017, 07:35:00 PM
Look, Sport, you don't have a light to shine--in fact you are the prince of darkness.  and why don't you spread your darkness somewhere else?

If I were the prince of darkness then would I not be welcomed here?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 12:31:03 PM
If I were the prince of darkness then would I not be welcomed here?
Umm.............not even close to getting it are you, Sport??!!  The Prince of Darkness is just as fictional as your god(s).  It was solely created by men to scare and control other men; sort of like your god.  Ya see, Sport, this is how it IS--there is no Thor, there is no Jupiter (the man not the planet--have to spell things out for you), no Isis, Bugs Bunny, no Paul Bunyan, no Minnie Mouse, no.................fill in the name of any other deity. But even tho the prince of darkness is not real, neither is your message of your gods.  You are simply a small mined, hate filled, pitiful man who is so deluded that he thinks anybody on this board gives a good crap about his 'message'; all you have demonstrated to date is that you are lost in your own little world of insanity; small mined and hateful. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 14, 2017, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 12:31:03 PM
If I were the prince of darkness then would I not be welcomed here?

Your Zoroastrian dualism ... doesn't become you.  You will have great difficulty crossing the knife edged bridge to paradise.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 01:16:02 PM
Umm.............not even close to getting it are you, Sport??!!  The Prince of Darkness is just as fictional as your god(s).  It was solely created by men to scare and control other men; sort of like your god.  Ya see, Sport, this is how it IS--there is no Thor, there is no Jupiter (the man not the planet--have to spell things out for you), no Isis, Bugs Bunny, no Paul Bunyan, no Minnie Mouse, no.................fill in the name of any other deity. But even tho the prince of darkness is not real, neither is your message of your gods.  You are simply a small mined, hate filled, pitiful man who is so deluded that he thinks anybody on this board gives a good crap about his 'message'; all you have demonstrated to date is that you are lost in your own little world of insanity; small mined and hateful.

I can't follow all the quotes, sorry.  But if I understand the argument, Drich is saying that if we atheists don't believe in HIS deities, we MUST be worshiping a satanic one.  I've herd that so many times.  It is so sad.  The idea that we worship none of the supernatural powers other humans have created just doesn't sink in. 

I don't believe in God, Allah, Yaweh, Satan, Shaitan, Buddha, Loki, Isis, Metamusil, Hela, Thunderpants, Crocodilegod, or any human-imagined deities and never will.

Get OVER it drich-stick!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 13, 2017, 11:12:55 PM
I certainly don't understand your usage of it.
There. Right there. That's where any specter of humility disappears and becomes arrogance.
Or perhaps my thought processes are just a little different than yours are. where you look to sugar coat everything in social cushion I look for word definitions and meaning to extrapolate what is being communicated. My example showed you using a word, and behaving to the contrary. so at that point I see a contradiction I ask for a point of clarity as I would expect from any of you I treat you with the same dignity, rather than assume your meaning and carry on by thinking the worst of you.

Asking you to clarify yourself should not be a reason for you to demote me from humanity... Seriously how mess up does one have to be for this to be treated as a rape or murder in your mind?

QuoteYou have been given talent by the fucking creator of the universe, the most ultimate being that you have conjured in your mind.
And if it is not an internal process? What if I learn new things through this creator? then can google or go back in scripture and vet what I've learned! How does that work if my creator is actually me? wouldn't it then be limited by what I know? how then could it give me a picture of creation that any of you have yet to even come close to refuting scriptural or through the fossil record. All of that was given to me in like maybe 15 mins of watching and writing. I was given a complete tour of the Gates of Hell that is 100% biblically accurate when I knew nothing of the bible hell or God. Again, how am I dreaming what I do not previously know anything about?

QuoteHow could such a notion be wrong?
Check or vet the "god given facts" if they are wrong then they are not of God. "Question everything hold onto what is Good!!"

QuoteAnd if I were to accept that reasoning, that would make me arrogant, too.
Again please define the word. Because what I offer is not of me, nor is it for you to accept. I offer a simple direction written out by God. Everything else is an example of how God can work in a life.

QuoteIn a way, your fellow Christians have one thing right: nobody deserves heaven.
I agree

QuoteThen again, this is true in many senses of that statement.
how so?

QuoteAgain, you arrogantly presume the worth of your 'knowledge,' that it means "everything" to me.
lol.. no. I only speak to truth seekers. If you want the truth here it is. Again as I was being consumed by Hell my biggest regret was not knowing the truth. I had believed all the atheist rhetoric because as an atheist sheep it made sense. But once I knew the truth I was certain I would have followed it, as that is all I really wanted. In all of Hell that is what was going to haunt me the most was my pride and me keeping myself from following the truth..

look, I don't know you from anyone else here 1/2 the time I do not even know who I am speaking with. I simply address each post one sentence at a time. I do know what me words mean to anyone, I simply gear them toward those who want to know the absolute truth about God.

QuoteHow are you humble,
Because I give all the glory of wisdom and knowledge to God and God alone. I have shared I could not read till my 20/via comic books and still suffer from mild dyslexia and a whole host of other learning disabilities. Or so says the school who graduated me on a 3rd or 4th grade level. Everything you read here of merit/what I use to destroy arguments from air bags like dawkins or hauser are not from me.. My thread on origins is not my work I am just a tool of God. That is how I am humble. Yet can remain proud that the stuff God gives me is awesome and it shuts down the wit and words of the best and brightest...

God uses the foolish things of this world to make fools of the learned and wise.

Quoteto presume to know what your knowledge is worth to me?
Just imagine I am not really talkng to you but to the silent one who thinks like you but is too reserved to post. Maybe I am talking with them through you.

QuoteI thought you only go to hell after you die,
Actually you are burried after you die, then the resurrection, then judgement.

Quoteand you are almost certainly not dead.
lord willing not for a long time.

QuoteUnless you mean being sent here? Sorry, chum, but if this is hell for you, you have a low bar for suffering.
Actually this realm is the closest thing Satan has to a satan owned realm.

QuoteThe problem is that you are sharing something when it is not welcome.That's simply rude, and you are presuming upon us by continuing past the point where you are welcome to share.
Actually douchess My sharring my angel story was in direct result of 3 or 4 people asking what do you mean God is proof of God or how does God 'show up.' Look-a-here sister the thing with these here threads... Unless I direct a message at you... I am not speaking to you. I was in this case speaking to the several pages of people before you came along... This is a christian discussion board... if you don't like being reminded of how close God can be to us then maybe you should go some place else, as this is the appropriate time and place to have this discussion.

QuoteIt is not something a humble person does, to presume that his want to share anything trumps another person wanting him to keep it to himself.
Please define humility. As God uses it, it means to not assign a station in life or in religion that you have not been given. I have been given my station in life by God, granted at any moment He is free to take it away, but for now all I have all I am belongs to God and I am just a care taker of it all.

As such I have a responsibility to put my candle/my light up high to everyone can see it. I will not be shamed to hide what God has given me under a bush because you don't understand the word humility.

Ever think maybe that is why or apart of the reason your fail failed? You did even have a base understanding of the Christian vocabulary??? Being a retard I came into the faith knowing I knew nothing and had to define everything, which brings us back the opening sentence I seek proper meaning and understanding to quickly descern what is being communicated. which again is what I ask you to define what you means when your use of a word does not match it's actual definition.

QuoteSo you have access to your all-knowing god-thing's knowledge, that's not to be questioned.
WFT are you talking about???? I have like 3 threads here challenging you douche bags to ask me question that My access to God can not answer, we have gone more than 50 pages of dialog in those threads and not once did I ignore a question or have one of you refute what I said scripturaly. are you just makes up crap as you go alone or are you really this oblivious to what is going on here and this is just some 1/2 cocked attempt to shame me into silence?!?!?

Your a blind troll


QuoteIf this is 'humility', this is a strange sense of the word that doesn't match anything I am familiar with.
Indeed. You do not seem familiar with the term. You seem to think it means groveling dirtbag. When again the term means to not take a position socially religiously or power/authority that you have not been given. It means not to speak out side the authority of your station.

The problem you have is defining the station I have been given. Again it seems all christians need bury their head in the sand when challenged according to you. when clearly Jesus teaches the oppsite, in that mat514 “You are the light that shines for the world to see. You are like a city built on a hill that cannot be hidden. 15 People don’t hide a lamp under a bowl. They put it on a lamp stand. Then the light shines for everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, you should be a light for other people. Live so that they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven.

My words are my light, while I am humble the words given to me by God take their own authority their own station.

Quote
That's exactly what's wrong with it, and it shows up in every aspect of your behavior. You think that your mission to share what you know of your god trumps our desire to be left alone by the likes of you. Once more, how are you humble?

I didn't seek you out. i did not call your name. You feel your beliefs trump mine so therefore you enevitivly dump whatever arguement you have and God uses me to dissect it and refute it point by point till all you have left is your faith that their is no God. the same faith we use to A/S/K for proof of God. So when someone like me or some year one Christian points this out is all you really have to say there aint no God.

That is what this whole mess is all about. Look it's simple I am only in the Christian part of this web site, which has been deem the right place and time to have this type of discussion. If i bother you that bad, then maybe you should avoid me or put me on ignore like so many other heavy hitter/big thinkers you have here have already done.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 14, 2017, 03:42:27 AM
Sorry, Dick. If God is love, then you are far from the point where can claim that God is all you are. All you have is arrogance, and a god of your own creation that you use to give ultimate authority over your stupid imaginations.

Define love...

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 01:16:02 PM
Umm.............not even close to getting it are you, Sport??!!  The Prince of Darkness is just as fictional as your god(s).  It was solely created by men to scare and control other men; sort of like your god.  Ya see, Sport, this is how it IS--there is no Thor, there is no Jupiter (the man not the planet--have to spell things out for you), no Isis, Bugs Bunny, no Paul Bunyan, no Minnie Mouse, no.................fill in the name of any other deity. But even tho the prince of darkness is not real, neither is your message of your gods.  You are simply a small mined, hate filled, pitiful man who is so deluded that he thinks anybody on this board gives a good crap about his 'message'; all you have demonstrated to date is that you are lost in your own little world of insanity; small mined and hateful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

Awww..

Someone is retreating into default atheism (what you guys do when you can't win theological arguments, you just repeat your mantra.)
Sorry if I shut you down this hard this soon on your home turf. Generally the one's how attack me first can hang a little harder and I don't have to pull my punches. but if you are already just reducded to preaching to us what an atheist is and is not all the while making demands for undefined proof.. then ovbi I hit back too hard.
So sorry about that I'll back down some.

So, Here's the other thing Old Sport,  the term "prince of darkness" is a title not a name of a deity. As a tile anyone could accept and use it, you know like OZZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL1WP35tN1A

So all of that diatribe you left... kinda is moot when describing a title that any man can claim or award to another like you did me. So when I got the title I pointed out your flub.. In that the prince of darkness should be welcome here (aka OZZY) yet I am not.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Give us a break Drich.  One post on a thread and wait til someone replies, OK?  And I'm not even reading yours.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 01:29:24 PM
I can't follow all the quotes, sorry.  But if I understand the argument, Drich is saying that if we atheists don't believe in HIS deities, we MUST be worshiping a satanic one.  I've herd that so many times.  It is so sad.  The idea that we worship none of the supernatural powers other humans have created just doesn't sink in. 

I don't believe in God, Allah, Yaweh, Satan, Shaitan, Buddha, Loki, Isis, Metamusil, Hela, Thunderpants, Crocodilegod, or any human-imagined deities and never will.

Get OVER it drich-stick!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=price+is+right+fail+music

Not even close.. maybe you no where near as smart as you think you are. meaning you can't make a coherent sense out of posts that you have 1/2 the text on ignore.

How about man up, and know I will never call you out or address you unless you quote something I have to say. That way you don't have to worry about me cutting your intellectual arguements down to size unless you line yourself up for a broadside by quoting me first.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Give us a break Drich.  One post on a thread and wait til someone replies, OK?  And I'm not even reading yours.

Hey retard... I post in sequence. I start from where I left off yesterday and go till I get caught up and then move on to the next thread. you would know this is you hadn't handicapped yourself like an f'ing moron by putting me on ignore, but who is obviously still trying to stay current
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 14, 2017, 03:59:10 PM
Uh oh, looks like you just broke one of god's rules.

QuoteEphesians 4:31-32 ESV / 75 helpful votes   

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

James 1:26 ESV / 132 helpful votes   

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless

https://www.openbible.info/topics/insults

Tut tut, need to work your rules and regulations.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 04:44:11 PM
Couldn't he at least quote "Mark" at me? 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 05:53:47 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 01:29:24 PM
I can't follow all the quotes, sorry.  But if I understand the argument, Drich is saying that if we atheists don't believe in HIS deities, we MUST be worshiping a satanic one.  I've herd that so many times.  It is so sad.  The idea that we worship none of the supernatural powers other humans have created just doesn't sink in. 

I don't believe in God, Allah, Yaweh, Satan, Shaitan, Buddha, Loki, Isis, Metamusil, Hela, Thunderpants, Crocodilegod, or any human-imagined deities and never will.

Get OVER it drich-stick!
The Dick offers nothing new; only he is meaner spirited about it than most theists.  Yeah, theists just can't seem to grasp that anyone would not have a 'belief' and therefore not only is atheism a belief but that atheists 'hate' god and must, then, 'believe' in some sort of other supernatural thing or other.  Like you, I just don't believe.  It's like insisting that if you don't believe in Donald Duck your must believe in Daffy Duck or some such crap.  Why would atheists hate god???  God is a fiction; it would be like hating Moby Dick for being such a mean whale.  It's a fiction.............!!!!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 06:54:54 PM
Nice.  Yeah, I sometimes think he is desperate for attention.  Its not like I go bothering theist sites.  The drichs of the world feel compelled to bother people not bothering them. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 08:10:27 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 06:54:54 PM
Nice.  Yeah, I sometimes think he is desperate for attention.  Its not like I go bothering theist sites.  The drichs of the world feel compelled to bother people not bothering them.
Yeah, I agree.  Not only that, but he has an ego the size of the universe.  And he does not really answer a question as much as simply issuing another set of statements. 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 08:10:27 PM
Yeah, I agree.  Not only that, but he has an ego the size of the universe.  And he does not really answer a question as much as simply issuing another set of statements.

Fortunately, the ego does not define reality.  Consider a Trumpian universe...  We would all be ants...  At best.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 14, 2017, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 14, 2017, 01:57:50 PM
Or perhaps my thought processes are just a little different than yours are. where you look to sugar coat everything in social cushion I look for word definitions and meaning to extrapolate what is being communicated. My example showed you using a word, and behaving to the contrary.
My dear, I never claimed to be humble. You were the only one claiming that.

Quote from: Drich0150
so at that point I see a contradiction I ask for a point of clarity as I would expect from any of you I treat you with the same dignity, rather than assume your meaning and carry on by thinking the worst of you.
I try... I do so try very hard... to give people credit and dignity. But you, my good man, have disappointed me at every turn.

Quote from: Drich0150
Asking you to clarify yourself should not be a reason for you to demote me from humanity... Seriously how mess up does one have to be for this to be treated as a rape or murder in your mind?
How have I demoted you from humanity? I claimed that you are arrogant. Only people have the balls to be arrogant. And how have I compared you to a rapist or murderer? Are you considering this your confession?

Quote from: Drich0150
And if it is not an internal process? What if I learn new things through this creator?
Then you would be able to demonstrate it as such. So far, you have failed, spectacularly. I am not afraid.

Quote from: Drich0150
then can google or go back in scripture and vet what I've learned! How does that work if my creator is actually me?
We've done this experiment, and you have failed. On any solid science that can be verified, you are an utter failure. I'd expect a creator of the universe to know how his own damn creation works.

Example: If you are really in communication with your god, he should be able to tell you why the Einstein field equations are not

R_ab = 8Ï€T_ab

Here's your chance, squirt. Why is it impossible for this to be the Einstein field equations?

Quote from: Drich0150
Check or vet the "god given facts" if they are wrong then they are not of God. "Question everything hold onto what is Good!!"
I guess you've missed the point of that question. Of the things that god has taught you, "rhetorical questions" is not one of them.

Quote from: Drich0150
I offer a simple direction written out by God. Everything else is an example of how God can work in a life.
[citation needed]

Quote from: Drich0150
how so?
C'mon, man. Do you really want to spend eternity singing God's praises? What's the point of an afterlife if I have to spend it in such an inane way, in a way that is better suited to a robot than a thinking being?

Quote from: Drich0150
If you want the truth here it is. Again as I was being consumed by Hell my biggest regret was not knowing the truth. I had believed all the atheist rhetoric because as an atheist sheep it made sense. But once I knew the truth I was certain I would have followed it, as that is all I really wanted. In all of Hell that is what was going to haunt me the most was my pride and me keeping myself from following the truth..
[citation needed]

I am not a sheep, athiest or otherwise. I am not a follower. I am a thinker and a truth seeker, but this truth that you present me is too narrow in scope, and dubious in credentials. I want to know how the universe works. I want to know what the solution to the conundrum of existence. I want to know how to solve difficult mathematical problems. I want to know if P = NP or no. I am genuinely curious. This world fascinates me in all its aspects.

And what I see is that this "truth of god" has turned you into a blithering idiot. Or maybe you always were a blithering idiot, and this "truth of god" is just letting it hang loose. I'll keep my mind, thank you. If your god would want you to know about me, then he would reveal it to you in an intellectually respectable manner. But of course, you have no intellectually respectable way to present it, so you have to appeal to scaring me with tales of hellfire and shit.

Quote from: Drich0150
look, I don't know you from anyone else here 1/2 the time I do not even know who I am speaking with. I simply address each post one sentence at a time. I do know what me words mean to anyone, I simply gear them toward those who want to know the absolute truth about God.
This might be part of your problem. See, you're a human being, your propensity to view yourself as a tool notwithstanding. Human beings can be mistaken, they can lie, and they can be fooled. The only place I hear about this god-thing are from human beings. Yes, you have strength of conviction, but that's all it is from my end.

Quote from: Drich0150
Because I give all the glory of wisdom and knowledge to God and God alone.
If that were true, then you would have no glory of wisdom, and no knowledge, because they would be with god and not with you. But that "knowledge" and "wisdom" is still with you, isn't it? "Look at this wisdom and knowledge that has been sanctified by the all-powerful creator of the universe, yet still is with me! Isn't it glorious?!"

This is semantic trickery, Drich. You have not humbled yourself in the slightest. You've attached yourself like a barnicle to this God image of yours, and as a result, you think that knowledge and wisdom is worth more than mine, that its sanctification makes it worth more. You may have convinced yourself that you are being 'humble' through this spurious logic, but you're not.

Quote from: Drich0150
I have shared I could not read till my 20/via comic books and still suffer from mild dyslexia and a whole host of other learning disabilities. Or so says the school who graduated me on a 3rd or 4th grade level. Everything you read here of merit/what I use to destroy arguments from air bags like dawkins or hauser are not from me.
I have yet to see you or your god destroy anyone's arguments.

Quote from: Drich0150
My thread on origins is not my work I am just a tool of God. That is how I am humble.
If you were the tool of a hobo, then you might be humble. As such, you fancy yourself as an instrument wielded by the supreme being of the universe. That is not a position of humbleness. It is a position of power, even if you are not exercising your own will.

Quote from: Drich0150
Yet can remain proud that the stuff God gives me is awesome and it shuts down the wit and words of the best and brightest...
[citation needed]

Quote from: Drich0150
Just imagine I am not really talkng to you but to the silent one who thinks like you but is too reserved to post. Maybe I am talking with them through you.
And you're so vain that you think that they're going to agree with you and not me.

Quote from: Drich0150
Actually you are burried after you die, then the resurrection, then judgement.
It's still "after," is it not? Again, you are not dead. Your visions of hell is likely nothing more than what your brain made up, rather than an actual vision presented by a God.

Quote from: Drich0150
Actually this realm is the closest thing Satan has to a satan owned realm.
If this is the best satan has to offer, I think I'll be fine.

Quote from: Drich0150
Actually douchess My sharring my angel story was in direct result of 3 or 4 people asking what do you mean God is proof of God or how does God 'show up.' Look-a-here sister the thing with these here threads... Unless I direct a message at you... I am not speaking to you. I was in this case speaking to the several pages of people before you came along... This is a christian discussion board... if you don't like being reminded of how close God can be to us then maybe you should go some place else, as this is the appropriate time and place to have this discussion.
When did I berate you for sharing your angel story specifically? That's right, nowhere. You came here with the express purpose to share your experience with us. I asked you whether you had any expertise on the matter, and you answered that you had none. The only "expertese" you had to share was your own experience. You're not here to "discuss" anything; you're only here to share what you have experienced and pretend that is a discussion.

Quote from: Drich0150
Please define humility. As God uses it, it means to not assign a station in life or in religion that you have not been given. I have been given my station in life by God, granted at any moment He is free to take it away, but for now all I have all I am belongs to God and I am just a care taker of it all.
I have no way to verify that your "station" â€"if it can be called thatâ€" was given to you by a god, or by a hallucination, or any number of brain misfirings. You assume that your experience could only be from a god. A humble person would say to themselves, "You know, I really have no way of really knowing that was really God or something else, let alone prove that to other people. Maybe I should be a little more circumspect in my assertions." Hence, you are not humble.

Furthermore, being legitimately appointed the station doesn't prevent you from abusing it. You may say all this glory is going to God, but I have no way of verifing that, either.

Quote from: Drich0150
Ever think maybe that is why or apart of the reason your fail failed? You did even have a base understanding of the Christian vocabulary??? Being a retard I came into the faith knowing I knew nothing and had to define everything, which brings us back the opening sentence I seek proper meaning and understanding to quickly descern what is being communicated. which again is what I ask you to define what you means when your use of a word does not match it's actual definition.
I'm using plain English and the terminology of logic, not your "Christian vocabulary." I don't give a flying fuck about your special words that you can use to slither out of difficult positions. "Christian vocabulary" looks a lot like plain English, which allows you to equivocate your way out of messes.

No. Use plain English please, with plain English meanings. Otherwise, walk.

Quote from: Drich0150
WFT are you talking about???? I have like 3 threads here challenging you douche bags to ask me question that My access to God can not answer,
Apparently, your god has not sought to educate you on what I meant by that phrase. I meant that there would be no legitimate counterargument to your god's "wisdom," that your god would be able to answer any question posed in a perfectly sensable way. I saw what was happening in that thread. You were expecting to answer stupid little piddly questions about christianity, to "clear up any misconceptions you may have concerning the God of the bible!" Instead, you were confronted with questions that you simply ad hoc-ed your way around.

That's the other meaning of "not to be questioned." The question is the legitimacy of those answers.

Quote from: Drich0150
Indeed. You do not seem familiar with the term. You seem to think it means groveling dirtbag.
If that's what your god has told you, then he's told you a lie. I don't expect you to grovel in the dirt. I just expect you to not address me as if you are in the superior position, even if you think that you are. And you are in the superior position in your own mind. You think that this knowledge you have comes from God. You are not the least bit circumspect that this knowledge of yours might not be from God after all, or might even be from the other side. You have no self-reflection that maybe, just maybe, that your source is not what you think it is or that you may have not understood this knowledge yourself.

You do think that you are in a superior position. You think of yourself as the instrument of God's will. Don't try to deny it, this is exactly what you have claimed and have presented yourself as. Apparently, you are a tool in the colloquial sense as well, as you have been sent into a den of thinkers and as such an intellectual (rather than a self-professed retard) would have been a better agent of his will.

You are not humble. Not by any plain English definition of the word.

Quote from: Drich0150
I didn't seek you out.
You signed up on an atheist discussion board. By definition, you sought us out, if not me specifically, for the express purpose of being the Resident Christianâ,,¢. You did not sign up to be part of our little community. You did not sign up as a genuine human who wants to interact with us for the sake of interacting with us. You are a tool, and we're the raw material to be worked on. You are an invader in our community.

Again, we are here because we want to get away from the likes of you. We want to come to a board where there isn't some self-important twit polluting our recent thread page with page after page of self-important aggrandizement by proxy. You could have learned a lot from your fellow Resident Theistâ,,¢, Baruch. Sure, he can be a little aggravating at times, and I don't care for some of his arguments and positions, but in the end there's a genuine human being under there to just talk with. He's even got a great wit about him... sometimes.

You... don't. As far as I can tell, you are not here to discuss anything, but to convert. If someone wants a conversion, they can go to a church.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 08:48:25 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 14, 2017, 03:59:10 PM
Uh oh, looks like you just broke one of god's rules.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/insults

Tut tut, need to work your rules and regulations.
Ephesians 4:31-32 ESV / 75 helpful votes[/quote]???   

QuoteLet all bitterness
I'm not bitter. I simply weigh back to you the same measure of harsh debate that you throw at me, the only difference is I cite my sources and back up what I say with reference material. If you do not like the sting of being shown wrong in a debate then simply vet your claims. make the corrections yourselves. How much mercy is any Christian given when He is academically wrong? Then why would you want a double standard for yourself?

Quoteand wrath
I Show No wrath whatso ever.

Quoteand anger
I show anger at hyprocrisy which is well documented that Christ did the same.

Quoteand clamor
I don't know what this means in this context.

Quoteand slander
Never slandered anyone.

Quotebe put away from you, along with all malice
.I hold absolutly no malice. I treat each post independently from the last. We could blast each other last post, and  Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving on the next.

Quoteone another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Again I hold no one in contempt.

My angry words are not the angry words of an atheist. I do focus on the person but am at war with the foolishness you people adopt. The thing seems to be you can separate the foolishness you adopt from who you are as a person. Which is fine, just to lie to yourself and make me out to hate or be against any one person as that is not the truth.

QuoteJames 1:26 ESV / 132 helpful votes   

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless

In my younger days I have chased atheists off message boards. Even now I have been know to silence the whole religious discussion side of whole boards. When I get close to running off all new members now I simply goto another website now. I am not looking to hurt anyone anymore.

So then which 'command' are you saying I am breaking, and please give examples.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Shiranu on July 17, 2017, 09:01:00 AM
QuoteThen why would you want a double standard for yourself?

Didn't your Christ tell you to turn the other cheek and be the better man?

Must be like alot of the other messages he preached that went over your head.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on July 17, 2017, 09:01:00 AM
Didn't your Christ tell you to turn the other cheek and be the better man?

Must be like alot of the other messages he preached that went over your head.

Did He when He was harshly question by the Pharisees?

Here's a hint sport:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+23&version=ERV

Just incase you didn't read the whole thing here is a whole chapter where Jesus is in a full on flaming rant against the 'religious hypocrites' of His day. This is the position you all have taken against Christianity. Almost the same arguments in some cases.

Here's an idea.. Your version of Jesus failed when you tested it. Mind did not. why do you think that is? I'd day because your version of Jesus was a one dimensional character who could not stand up to life's scrutiny.

While I worship a multifaceted God who is allowed to be emotional who does tell people to try and do better than they are being treated , but also makes provisions for teachers to take things to extremes so long as they know their judgment for doing so will be more carfully weighed out/harsher.



Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Blackleaf on July 17, 2017, 10:54:32 AM
I hope Dick doesn't have and never has children. He'd be the type of bad parent who blames his problems and behavior on his kids.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 17, 2017, 10:57:22 AM
Seriously, reading a deeply religious nut babble on and on about their own interpretation of their religious text is like listening to a child losing at game they invented their friends to play but keeps making up new rules to come out on top
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2017, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 17, 2017, 10:57:22 AM
Seriously, reading a deeply religious nut babble on and on about their own interpretation of their religious text is like listening to a child losing at game they invented their friends to play but keeps making up new rules to come out on top

That is what politics is.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 01:04:29 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 17, 2017, 10:57:22 AM
Seriously, reading a deeply religious nut babble on and on about their own interpretation of their religious text is like listening to a child losing at game they invented their friends to play but keeps making up new rules to come out on top
Says the douche who just on post 158 was desperately trying to use the bible to your ill gotten gain. then when I showed you to be a cherry picking sundae school theist you pout and want nothing to do with the bible.

You are the worst kind of hypocrite. If you are going to post 'medicine' from the bible and expect others to yield to it, then oh great 'teacher' yu too should also be ready to be disciplined from the bible and yield to it, lest you be found a foolish hypocrite.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 17, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 08:48:25 AM
I'm not bitter.
QuoteDouche

(https://media.tenor.com/images/0dc0b5f1e4edae142dee143c72144176/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Shiranu on July 17, 2017, 01:55:38 PM
QuoteHere's an idea.. Your version of Jesus failed when you tested it. Mind did not.

Then I have no interest in your Jesus, since he is one of hatred and prickedness rather than love and compassion.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: aitm on July 17, 2017, 02:49:43 PM
meh, wasted energy on him. He is very much like a pig...he enjoys wrestling in the mud. Meh.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on July 17, 2017, 01:55:38 PM
Then I have no interest in your Jesus, since he is one of hatred and prickedness rather than love and compassion.

Not everyone is mean to be saved... Not everyone belongs to God. Many see salvation as slavery to a wicked deity. If this is your thing then know I am not here to convince or debate you. I am here for the others who do not know God, but think they do.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Colanth on July 17, 2017, 04:04:14 PM
I've been gone for how many years and nothing's changed, has it?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 17, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: Colanth on July 17, 2017, 04:04:14 PM
I've been gone for how many years and nothing's changed, has it?

NOPE, and welcome back
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 17, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Not everyone is mean to be saved... Not everyone belongs to God. Many see salvation as slavery to a wicked deity. If this is your thing then know I am not here to convince or debate you. I am here for the others who do not know God, but think they do.
Don't you mean --Not everyone mean is to be saved?  I suspect that you believe you are in the saved mean part. 

Or did you mean--Not everyone is mean--to be saved; which sort of suggests that some are mean and some are not, and we all know what group you are in.

Or did you mean---you are about as difficult to understand as figuring out what the bible 'really' means.

Not everyone belongs to god???????  Okay, then, did god pump out humans that were ordered by other gods or entities??  For example, if Thor needed some creatures, he would put his order in to god and then god would pump them out, and they, then, belonged to Thor and not god?  Really.  You are creative in your own sick, fucked up way. 

You are here to talk to those of us who think we know god but we really don't?  :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))  You would have a better chance to convince us that Marvin the Martian is really real.  And that Heckle and Jeckle are his care takers.  And I know Bugs Bunny would back you up!

Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2017, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Not everyone is mean to be saved... Not everyone belongs to God. Many see salvation as slavery to a wicked deity. If this is your thing then know I am not here to convince or debate you. I am here for the others who do not know God, but think they do.

Speaking to yourself in the mirror again?  I don't think you know G-d.  Not that it really matters.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 17, 2017, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 01:04:29 PM
Says the douche who just on post 158 was desperately trying to use the bible to your ill gotten gain. then when I showed you to be a cherry picking sundae school theist you pout and want nothing to do with the bible.

You are the worst kind of hypocrite. If you are going to post 'medicine' from the bible and expect others to yield to it, then oh great 'teacher' yu too should also be ready to be disciplined from the bible and yield to it, lest you be found a foolish hypocrite.

I really liked post 158 on this string ... sorry, no prize for you today.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 17, 2017, 07:33:45 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 17, 2017, 06:18:50 PM
Speaking to yourself in the mirror again?  I don't think you know G-d.  Not that it really matters.

Well he's pretty much made up his own interpretation of what god is, and unless everyone yields to his interpretation of said genie in a bottle, we are all condemn to helllaluyarrrrr
Pretty sure theres some denial of literary factors, and on a standardized test I don't think he'd score to well.


Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 02:58:08 AM
I still have a problem understanding that people think there is EVEN a deity of any sort.  Never mind arguing about it's nature.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 07:01:11 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 02:58:08 AM
I still have a problem understanding that people think there is EVEN a deity of any sort.  Never mind arguing about it's nature.

its all baby steps, once you show the person the thing they believe in as being real is pretty fucking awful, its a step to making them realize its all made up.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
I would think it was the other way around.  When they realize it is awful, THEN, they can logically conclude it is not real.  I mean, if something is awful, shouldn't it be easier to decide it is not real? 
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
I would think it was the other way around.  When they realize it is awful, THEN, they can logically conclude it is not real.  I mean, if something is awful, shouldn't it be easier to decide it is not real?

uuurm, wasn't that what I said?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 10:34:41 AM
Probably. 

BTW, why do your avatar's lion boobs have the nipples in the wrong places?  I've always wondered about that.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 10:34:41 AM
Probably. 

BTW, why do your avatar's lion boobs have the nipples in the wrong places?  I've always wondered about that.

Furries don't have to have the usual anatomy ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 10:34:41 AM
Probably. 

BTW, why do your avatar's lion boobs have the nipples in the wrong places?  I've always wondered about that.

He's an anthromorphic lion, fact that he has five fingered hands and toes means the artist isn't going for authenticity in his fantasy.

(http://orig01.deviantart.net/365f/f/2007/273/1/3/galen_punch_by_ohblon.gif)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
Furries don't have to have the usual anatomy ;-)

See, Baruch gets it.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 18, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 17, 2017, 07:33:45 PM
Well he's pretty much made up his own interpretation of what god is, and unless everyone yields to his interpretation of said genie in a bottle, we are all condemn to helllaluyarrrrr
Pretty sure theres some denial of literary factors, and on a standardized test I don't think he'd score to well.
I haven't made up anything.

I simply drop what is not in the bible and add what is to the popular understanding of God.

We can go point by point with BCV if you like.

1/2 the thing people think about God are not true. why? because as most of you will point out 'we' make god to our likness. If God is an individual, right there proves 1/2 of what we believe is not true. If the bible is correct and He is infinate... then it is likly the other 1/2 is not true IF you do not know God.

This all stands to reason that the God I am telling you is real and works with me daily is different than the God who has abandoned you/you know is not real.

Do you really think the whole world holds to what you think God is? how could we? Do you also think the whole rest of the world got it wrong?

Atheism is usually comprised of the Father figure omni benevolent God who is supposed to take care of everyone. Does it really surprise you another God besides that one can and does exist???

If not then why am I being blasted for find something that works as described in the bible? If so what did you expect? that you would find God straight out of the womb? that you would/could be born a Christian? That their isn't anything you have to do being born in the church???

See to me to think like that is the true pride, not take joy in God and His power!
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 18, 2017, 01:32:33 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 02:58:08 AM
I still have a problem understanding that people think there is EVEN a deity of any sort.  Never mind arguing about it's nature.

Then maybe you should learn to allow people's thoughts into your version of this place rather than ignore anything that makes you feel scarry.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 18, 2017, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 18, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
I haven't made up anything.

You have made everything up, Sport.  Oh Great Dildo, all of it is a fiction. 
Now if you are read...........
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 18, 2017, 01:02:58 PM
See, Baruch gets it.

And I bet a Kzin could kick your kitty's tail ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 18, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 18, 2017, 01:32:33 PM
Then maybe you should learn to allow people's thoughts into your version of this place rather than ignore anything that makes you feel scarry.
Did you ever stop to think (well, that was a stupid question, wasn't it, Sport--you, thinking!) that a cavebear is going to get a few scars--that's the nature of cavebears.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 09:37:49 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 06:40:15 PM
And I bet a Kzin could kick your kitty's tail ;-)

its not about butt kickery, its about who looks best in swim shorts.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 18, 2017, 05:19:41 PM
You have made everything up, Sport.  Oh Great Dildo, all of it is a fiction. 
Now if you are read...........
proof???
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
proof???
Well, Sport, there is no god--and jesus was not real.  That is simply as plain as the sun rising tomorrow.  Prove otherwise, Sport.
Now if you are read...........
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 03:42:51 PM
Well, Sport, there is no god--and jesus was not real.  That is simply as plain as the sun rising tomorrow.  Prove otherwise, Sport.
Now if you are read...........

I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2017, 07:09:18 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...

The Romans declared Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar to be gods ... do you worship them?

It would appear that by the early part of the 2nd century CE, there were pre-Constantinian Christians of some sort in N Turkey were governor Pliny Jr was posted by Emperor Trajan.  Their connection to subsequent Orthodox/Catholic Christianity of the 4th century is obscure.

Tacitus' report was hearsay, he got from Romans 50 years after the fact (the burning of Rome).  We know that Pontius Pilatus was propraetor in Judea at the right time (an inscription in Caesarea), as was Antonius Felix/King Herod Agrippa II in the time of Paul's trial in Caesarea.  That religious outcasts accused of arson were executed by Nero is clear, but it is not clear what Christianity was then ... other than it was a Hellenistic Jewish sect opposed to the rabbinical Jewish sect.  Recent scholarship can't clearly say they were even Jewish (as all Christianoi would have been at that time) ... but that some of them may have been Isis worshippers, who were similarly scapegoated.  Tacitus' hearsay evidence doesn't prove what happened in Judea 50 years before, only what some people in Rome thought to have happened.  The "chrestos" is mentioned ... which only means "anointed" ... it doesn't show the secular role, let alone the supernatural role of such a person.  Many Jewish people were crucified by the Romans at various times.  The Maccabees earlier, had crucified 70,000 Pharisees before the Roman occupation of Judea in 63 BCE.

The existence of messianic Jews (Gentile messianics were unusual before the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 CE, 20 years after Tacitus wrote) is well known, before 135 CE.  The number of messianic Jews after the Bar Kochba revolt dropped to near zero, because of the failure of three messianic revolts by rabbinic and Hellenistic Jews over a 74 year period.  These revolts being inspired by the earlier, partially successful revolt by the Maccabees.

None of this does more than trivially support the NT as history.  There is no reason to believe any of this is supernatural in our time, though people believed everything was supernatural (including Roman Emperors) back then.  The unsuccessful revolt of the Jewish people against Roman oppression is if anything, a denial of the existence of G-d.  The survival of god-fearing Gentiles of Pauline or non-Pauline gnostic background is also known to history (Pre-Nicene Church Fathers and Gnostic writers) after 135 CE is known.  The real founding of Christianity, contrary to Protestant mythology ... was by Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.  With additional foundations in Armenia and Ethiopia by the monarchies there.  Prior to the establishment of State Christianity, Gentile messianics were a theologically incoherent group of religious dissidents.  And per Roman law, were justifiably persecuted for the crime of "illegal association" and "denigration of state cult (particularity he divinity of the emperors)".  Without Julius Caesar posthumously, and Augustus Caesar while still alive, claiming to be gods incarnate ... Jewish resistance wouldn't have needed to be as fanatic ... nor Gentile resistance even imaginable.  Roman paganism was quite accommodating, even of Judaism, provided that one cooperated with the Roman authorities (which religious extremists could not do, any more than ISIS could do today).  The majority of Jewish messianics weren't pacifists ... and were often pro-Persian (the arch-enemy of the Romans).  Only pro-Roman pacifist Jewish messianics like the ekklesia of Paul could be allowed to survive, and even then, underground.  You had to be licensed by the State, to run a religious institution, and they didn't have a license to do so until the time of Constantine.

The devil is in the details.  The real Paul wouldn't be recognizable to today's Christians, nor would the majority Jewish messianics who opposed his accommodation with the Gentile god-fearers (see Peter and Barnabas).  Modern Jewish messianics are divided now, same as back then, regarding Gentiles and the degree of Jewish observance.  Paul's immediate eschaton failed to appear ... and his organization only survived first as small enough to be ignored, and later elevated to State religion as the ultimate irony.  Constantine himself, if I read the evidence, considered himself, the second coming of Christ.  And he was just as wrong as Paul was.  Paul was a great Hellenistic rabbi, same as Josephus and Philo ... and none of those three men, ever saw anything that we would agree was supernatural.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...
If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Hydra009 on July 20, 2017, 12:08:36 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:23:33 PMNow if you can Read.......
Don't you mean "Now if you are read" ?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 06:35:45 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 09:46:40 PM
If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.

For you "just" fictions.  For me "fictions".  Fictions for you are weakness, for me they are power.  I live in a humanistic world, of humans, by humans, for humans.  Materialism is secondary for me, as is rationality.  If we were Vulcans, all our stories would be logical.  And if we were materialists too, then we wouldn't have any stories.  Except maybe the parable of Stone Soup ;-)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 09:28:19 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 06:35:45 AM
For you "just" fictions.  For me "fictions".  Fictions for you are weakness, for me they are power.  I live in a humanistic world, of humans, by humans, for humans.  Materialism is secondary for me, as is rationality.  If we were Vulcans, all our stories would be logical.  And if we were materialists too, then we wouldn't have any stories.  Except maybe the parable of Stone Soup ;-)
There are 'just' and then there are 'just'--depends upon what one means. :)  For dildo I mean 'just' as his god is no more real than Bugs Bunny or any other fiction.  So, that 'just' is to signify that his fictional world is no more important or real than that of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character. 

I fully understand what some fictions mean and how important they are.  Those fictions are not 'just' fictions.  But serve a real purpose for a society or group.  Like Aesop's fables, they can be short morality plays.  Or as detailed in 'Women Who Run With The Wolves', fables and fairy tales and legends and myths can function in a variety of ways; a reflection of a society, an illustration of the good and bad in certain situations; a representation of the coming of age rite or set of thoughts and actions; and a number of other things.  Some fiction can be 'just' a good story (nothing wrong with that, I love a good story) or it can serve as a sounding board for how we should act as opposed to how we do act.  Fiction is not unimportant.

In Dildo's case he tries to elevate his personal fiction to a position of being all-important or as being the ultimate reality, when, in fact, it is 'just' a fiction.   
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 12:59:52 PM
And 2000 or 3000 year old fictions, are of doubtful utility.  Stories of Washington's or Lincoln's honesty ... more useful.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 20, 2017, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 19, 2017, 07:09:18 PM
The Romans declared Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar to be gods ... do you worship them?

It would appear that by the early part of the 2nd century CE, there were pre-Constantinian Christians of some sort in N Turkey were governor Pliny Jr was posted by Emperor Trajan.  Their connection to subsequent Orthodox/Catholic Christianity of the 4th century is obscure.

Tacitus' report was hearsay, he got from Romans 50 years after the fact (the burning of Rome).  We know that Pontius Pilatus was propraetor in Judea at the right time (an inscription in Caesarea), as was Antonius Felix/King Herod Agrippa II in the time of Paul's trial in Caesarea.  That religious outcasts accused of arson were executed by Nero is clear, but it is not clear what Christianity was then ... other than it was a Hellenistic Jewish sect opposed to the rabbinical Jewish sect.  Recent scholarship can't clearly say they were even Jewish (as all Christianoi would have been at that time) ... but that some of them may have been Isis worshippers, who were similarly scapegoated.  Tacitus' hearsay evidence doesn't prove what happened in Judea 50 years before, only what some people in Rome thought to have happened.  The "chrestos" is mentioned ... which only means "anointed" ... it doesn't show the secular role, let alone the supernatural role of such a person.  Many Jewish people were crucified by the Romans at various times.  The Maccabees earlier, had crucified 70,000 Pharisees before the Roman occupation of Judea in 63 BCE.

The existence of messianic Jews (Gentile messianics were unusual before the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 CE, 20 years after Tacitus wrote) is well known, before 135 CE.  The number of messianic Jews after the Bar Kochba revolt dropped to near zero, because of the failure of three messianic revolts by rabbinic and Hellenistic Jews over a 74 year period.  These revolts being inspired by the earlier, partially successful revolt by the Maccabees.

None of this does more than trivially support the NT as history.  There is no reason to believe any of this is supernatural in our time, though people believed everything was supernatural (including Roman Emperors) back then.  The unsuccessful revolt of the Jewish people against Roman oppression is if anything, a denial of the existence of G-d.  The survival of god-fearing Gentiles of Pauline or non-Pauline gnostic background is also known to history (Pre-Nicene Church Fathers and Gnostic writers) after 135 CE is known.  The real founding of Christianity, contrary to Protestant mythology ... was by Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.  With additional foundations in Armenia and Ethiopia by the monarchies there.  Prior to the establishment of State Christianity, Gentile messianics were a theologically incoherent group of religious dissidents.  And per Roman law, were justifiably persecuted for the crime of "illegal association" and "denigration of state cult (particularity he divinity of the emperors)".  Without Julius Caesar posthumously, and Augustus Caesar while still alive, claiming to be gods incarnate ... Jewish resistance wouldn't have needed to be as fanatic ... nor Gentile resistance even imaginable.  Roman paganism was quite accommodating, even of Judaism, provided that one cooperated with the Roman authorities (which religious extremists could not do, any more than ISIS could do today).  The majority of Jewish messianics weren't pacifists ... and were often pro-Persian (the arch-enemy of the Romans).  Only pro-Roman pacifist Jewish messianics like the ekklesia of Paul could be allowed to survive, and even then, underground.  You had to be licensed by the State, to run a religious institution, and they didn't have a license to do so until the time of Constantine.

The devil is in the details.  The real Paul wouldn't be recognizable to today's Christians, nor would the majority Jewish messianics who opposed his accommodation with the Gentile god-fearers (see Peter and Barnabas).  Modern Jewish messianics are divided now, same as back then, regarding Gentiles and the degree of Jewish observance.  Paul's immediate eschaton failed to appear ... and his organization only survived first as small enough to be ignored, and later elevated to State religion as the ultimate irony.  Constantine himself, if I read the evidence, considered himself, the second coming of Christ.  And he was just as wrong as Paul was.  Paul was a great Hellenistic rabbi, same as Josephus and Philo ... and none of those three men, ever saw anything that we would agree was supernatural.
citations please
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 20, 2017, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 19, 2017, 09:46:40 PM
If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.

Google it... No self respecting historian doubts the existence of Jesus and they do indeed cite the 4 letters I cited as extra biblical proof.

2005 called and they want their Jesus was not a real person argument back! I can't help if you will not let go of defeated atheist tripe. you are not even up on popular arguments now. Maybe you should read what the contemporary atheists are now saying about Jesus since they can't deny his existence with out being made fun of by real academics...

Seems some have even found proof he was a sinner and thus not the son of God...

Grow yourself fool. Learn something new. or did you think the bs that your learned about atheist would carry you forward forever? Atheism is like fring science there is always another theory when God prooves the last one wrong.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 20, 2017, 01:45:55 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 09:28:19 AM
There are 'just' and then there are 'just'--depends upon what one means. :)  For dildo I mean 'just' as his god is no more real than Bugs Bunny or any other fiction.  So, that 'just' is to signify that his fictional world is no more important or real than that of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character. 

I fully understand what some fictions mean and how important they are.  Those fictions are not 'just' fictions.  But serve a real purpose for a society or group.  Like Aesop's fables, they can be short morality plays.  Or as detailed in 'Women Who Run With The Wolves', fables and fairy tales and legends and myths can function in a variety of ways; a reflection of a society, an illustration of the good and bad in certain situations; a representation of the coming of age rite or set of thoughts and actions; and a number of other things.  Some fiction can be 'just' a good story (nothing wrong with that, I love a good story) or it can serve as a sounding board for how we should act as opposed to how we do act.  Fiction is not unimportant.

In Dildo's case he tries to elevate his personal fiction to a position of being all-important or as being the ultimate reality, when, in fact, it is 'just' a fiction.

you've define fiction. that is a start, but you have yet to provide or demonstrate what what I experienced is indeed a fiction. What evidence do you have to support your charge of fiction?

Truthfully you seem pretty jealous that if there was a God he would not have chosen you despite all your work and effort. So then if your simplistic judgement is your sole source for determining fiction in my life, then how can you ensure that hard feelings or simple jealousy is not altering you view???
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 20, 2017, 01:45:55 PM
you've define fiction. that is a start, but you have yet to provide or demonstrate what what I experienced is indeed a fiction. What evidence do you have to support your charge of fiction?

Truthfully you seem pretty jealous that if there was a God he would not have chosen you despite all your work and effort. So then if your simplistic judgement is your sole source for determining fiction in my life, then how can you ensure that hard feelings or simple jealousy is not altering you view???
Because, Sport, I'm not like you--ego driven to the point of blindness.  So, Oh Great Dildo, foam on. 
Now if you are read...................
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 05:29:15 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 12:59:52 PM
And 2000 or 3000 year old fictions, are of doubtful utility.  Stories of Washington's or Lincoln's honesty ... more useful.
Some fictions can be timeless--like Aesop.  But when reading stories about Washington or Lincoln, one still needs to be cautious.  Minister Weems illustrates that when he crafted character stories around Washington; Washington's not lying about chopping down a cherry tree is totally made up, but became accepted  as history.  No matter when history was written one must be cautious when accepting it at face value.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 06:23:03 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 05:29:15 PM
Some fictions can be timeless--like Aesop.  But when reading stories about Washington or Lincoln, one still needs to be cautious.  Minister Weems illustrates that when he crafted character stories around Washington; Washington's not lying about chopping down a cherry tree is totally made up, but became accepted  as history.  No matter when history was written one must be cautious when accepting it at face value.

Baseless claims ... all the way down.  The question is, what point does the fiction serve?  In the case of political fiction, it serves politics.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Colanth on July 20, 2017, 06:58:19 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 19, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources

1. Tacitus never mentions Jesus, just a religious group that names itself after its anointed leader.  A lot of leaders of all sorts of things, not just religions, were anointed in those days.

2. Josephus never mentions Jesus.  We have to wait until a 5th century copy contains the forgery that so obviously wasn't written by a Jew (and Josephus was one).

I'll skip listing everyone else but:
a. Anyone born after 33 CE was repeating hearsay, so it's not evidence.
b. There's no contemporaneous eyewitness account of Jesus - and if he had been performing miracles on the street, you'd think that at least one man would have noticed, huh?  (Some women were illiterate in those days, so the fact that no woman wrote anything might just mean that all the women who saw the so-called miracles were illiterate, but the men had to know how to read and write.)
Oh, and c. Jesus was just the 11th telling of the godlet story.  Read Paul.  I mean really read Paul, don't just read the parts some preacher tells you are okay to read.  He describes Jesus as a spirit who lives in the 7th heaven.  Really?  You want us to take that seriously?  (Everything else is hearsay, so sensible people - even those with an agenda, even if you call them "historians" - don't use it as a source.  Those who use it as a source aren't being too sensible.)

Another "Oh" - in the year 1 CE, where Nazareth now stands, were just 2 farms - two families.  Joseph, according to the myth, was a carpenter, not a farmer, so Jesus didn't come from Nazareth.

And Roman law was that one had to return to the place of one's residence for a census, not one's birth, so "Mary" (no such name in Hebrew - it would have been Miryam) and "Joseph" wouldn't have needed "room at the inn", they had room at their own house - where they had to be.  (But the story plays better if Jesus was born in a manger.)

The "Star of Bethlehem"?  I don't care how powerful God was, he couldn't make a star move to guide the Magi (the optics just don't work).  It the star was far enough away, it would appear to be fixed in the sky (plus Earth's rotation).  If it were close enough to move and guide them, we'd have 2 problems.  1. Earth would have burned to a cinder.  2. The purturbations to the Solar system would probably have flung at least a few planets out of the system - and we have Greek records of the 5 easiest-to-see planets - and they're still there.

All you've shown, really, is the opinions of some people (who just happened to have a vested interest in Jesus being real).  We don't even have a date of Jesus' birth until Dionysius Exiguus decided (he never said how).  The years were identified by naming the consuls who held office that year; Dionysius himself stated that the "present year" was "the consulship of Probus Junior", which he also stated was 525 years "since the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ".  He made it up!

The year of Jesus supposed birth was 754 ab urbe condita (auc) meaning "from the founding of the City (Rome)".

Why?  Because Dionysius Exiguus said so, there was no other reason.

So we have nothing but opinion (which you choose to believe, but that doesn't make it correct) of people who lived after Jesus supposedly died, except for one man whojclaimed that he was a spirit living in the "7th heaven" - which sounds more like a psychiatric condition that an historical report.

(BTW, it's existentially positive assertions that bear the burden of proof - "I don't accept your assertion" doesn't.  So you can keep looking for proof - but be prepared for a LONG search, because you won't find any.  No one has yet - in 2017 years.  (Or whenever he was supposed to have been born - the best we have are conflicting dates.)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 06:23:03 PM
Baseless claims ... all the way down.  The question is, what point does the fiction serve?  In the case of political fiction, it serves politics.
Fiction can serve well, if it is clearly labeled as such.  History should have no place for fiction.  But Weems, and others, said they wanted to simply use a historical character to illustrate a point of good character and so felt justified in creating a fiction using historical figures.  Religion always falls under the label of fiction.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: SoldierofFortune on July 20, 2017, 09:29:43 PM
Have you written this sceneario on your own?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 09:46:30 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 07:54:04 PM
Fiction can serve well, if it is clearly labeled as such.  History should have no place for fiction.  But Weems, and others, said they wanted to simply use a historical character to illustrate a point of good character and so felt justified in creating a fiction using historical figures.  Religion always falls under the label of fiction.

You are still a captive of the political matrix, Archeo.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2017, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 09:46:30 PM
You are still a captive of the political matrix, Archeo.
Why, of course I am.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 21, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Colanth on July 20, 2017, 06:58:19 PM
1. Tacitus never mentions Jesus, just a religious group that names itself after its anointed leader.  A lot of leaders of all sorts of things, not just religions, were anointed in those days.
:histerical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

It's called G-O-O-G-L-E... maybe you oughta google it before you make an assertion that contridicts one of mine. Why? Because I have at least 3 sources to back up EVERYTHING I say.

Quote from: tactiusConsequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations,  called Christians by the populace.Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

Quote2. Josephus never mentions Jesus.  We have to wait until a 5th century copy contains the forgery that so obviously wasn't written by a Jew (and Josephus was one).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w


or it does and someone in the 19th or 20th century simply calls into question the works of Josephus.

Here's the thing with that claim sport... Someone in the 19th century (probably some anti Jesus douche) looked up the oldest complete set of the works of Josephus, which the oldest set is kept by the church in Latin, and it is from the 5th century... (so they "anti-jesus douches" create some sort of conspiracy that a bunch a priest conspired to change the works of Josephus to match the bible..

The problem with that theory, is this guy didn't have google when He made his claim.. Otherwise he's know That said there are individual books much much older, and better yet we have quotes from people like Eusebian who quotes and records the Testimonium Flavianum (the fancy word smart guys use to describe the Jesus bits in the works of Josephus,) in His works from the early from the 4th century... Which then vets the 5th century copies of Josephus' works. thus nullifying your little (anti-jesus douche) claim.

I trust a paper held in the hellenistic studies @ Harvard would be a sufficient source to dispel your little myth...
https://chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/5871

If not I have a few others... or you can G-O-G-G-L-E_I-T yourself

Look guys, if you still believe there isn't enough evidence for Christ you are 10 years behind what current atheist think. GOOGLE your beliefs, open your minds as you far more educated breathern have been forced to do. Because picking off these antiquated 20 year old arguments is... tedious at best. (minus the fun I can have by calling you anti Jesus douches)

QuoteI'll skip listing everyone else but:
a. Anyone born after 33 CE was repeating hearsay, so it's not evidence.
that is closed minded to say. so authorized biographies are... what hear say?

Quoteb. There's no contemporaneous eyewitness account of Jesus
From a culture that 95% could not read or write we still have the works I mentioned in this post and the last.

Quote- and if he had been performing miracles on the street, you'd think that at least one man would have noticed, huh?
Indeed and they were recorded in a non religious letter written to Theophilous who commissioned a historean writter and doctor to go and see what Jesus was all about. would you like a link to this 3rd party letter?

Quote(Some women were illiterate in those days, so the fact that no woman wrote anything might just mean that all the women who saw the so-called miracles were illiterate, but the men had to know how to read and write.)

Google it 95 to 98% did not. They spoke a language that had no offical written counterpart, so everything written had to be written in a base language most did not speak.
It is like speaking ebonics or creol which is a spoken dialect that does not have an official rule set to is proper grammatical, nor spelling use. Then those people who may not even speak korean be made to write everything in Korean as that is the only official language. Not saying someone who speaks ebonics can't write in korean. I am saying very few can. and of those how much of what they write in korean would keep for 2000 years without a massive 'religious' organisation preserving and recopying their work? Then after all that time couldn't some shallow thinking douche bag just ignore what they wrote and dismiss it as a 'religious' text just because the religion kept the works intact???

Can you at least see the scope of what you are asking??? If you can the fact that we have what we do is absolutely amazing.

QuoteOh, and c. Jesus was just the 11th telling of the godlet story.
dumbest thing I ever heard. citation please
Quote
Read Paul.  I mean really read Paul, don't just read the parts some preacher tells you are okay to read.  He describes Jesus as a spirit who lives in the 7th heaven.  Really?  You want us to take that seriously?
Different levels of Heaven are not new. Read the book of Daniel or even Revelation. If you know what to look for you can even see it in the teaching of Christ in the way of bigger rewards for the more faithful/Harder working, and those who death bed confess they enter heaven with little more than the cloths of their back. Not a new thing, unless your version of Christianity was so far off from the biblical description you would not know God if He kicked you in the ass personally.

Quote(Everything else is hearsay, so sensible people - even those with an agenda, even if you call them "historians" - don't use it as a source.  Those who use it as a source aren't being too sensible.)
:histerical:

QuoteAnother "Oh" - in the year 1 CE, where Nazareth now stands, were just 2 farms - two families.
Glob... Nazarath was a military encampment... That ment a tent city doom-mas.

QuoteJoseph, according to the myth, was a carpenter, not a farmer, so Jesus didn't come from Nazareth.
the word translated meant laborer. which included carpenter/tent maker or farmer.

QuoteAnd Roman law was that one had to return to the place of one's residence for a census, not one's birth,

Luke put the cencus as a command of Herod, the roman appointed King of the Jews. Herod would have an intrest in sending people to be counted back to where they came from as they would indicate house from which one was born.. As identifying the line of David.

So to say Herod order a census from one pov is the same as saying Rome ordered it as He was king appointed by rome to that region. then 10 years later there was a offical roman census in 6ad

Quoteso "Mary" (no such name in Hebrew - it would have been Miryam) and "Joseph" wouldn't have needed "room at the inn", they had room at their own house - where they had to be.  (But the story plays better if Jesus was born in a manger.)
glob...
†Μαρία María, mar-ee'-ah; of Hebrew origin (H4813); Maria or Mariam (i.e. Mirjam), the name of six Christian females:â€"Mary.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3137&t=KJV

QuoteThe "Star of Bethlehem"?  I don't care how powerful God was, he couldn't make a star move to guide the Magi (the optics just don't work).  It the star was far enough away, it would appear to be fixed in the sky (plus Earth's rotation).  If it were close enough to move and guide them, we'd have 2 problems.  1. Earth would have burned to a cinder.  2. The purturbations to the Solar system would probably have flung at least a few planets out of the system - and we have Greek records of the 5 easiest-to-see planets - and they're still there.
ἀσÏ,,ήρ astḗr, as-tare'; probably from the base of G4766; a star (as strown over the sky), literally or figuratively:â€"star.

So what is a star to a first century man? it is a point of light in the night sky. with a few 1000 dollars I can move a point of light anywhere I want in the night sky. If God couldn't do this or even better plan a celestial event that coinsides with a prophesy He started with foreknowledge of said event, then you are right. how ever not only is this plausible I can point to three such celestial events that science says may have been one such celestial event. or you can google it yourself.

QuoteAll you've shown, really, is the opinions of some people (who just happened to have a vested interest in Jesus being real).
:biglaugh: You haven't even shown that. you have only produced your own interest in Christ not being real. Or did I miss your citations?

QuoteWe don't even have a date of Jesus' birth until Dionysius Exiguus decided (he never said how).
so? do you have my date of birth? Am I not real?

QuoteThe years were identified by naming the consuls who held office that year; Dionysius himself stated that the "present year" was "the consulship of Probus Junior", which he also stated was 525 years "since the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ".  He made it up!
so??? That is a religion mistake. The bible nor anything in it gives us a date.

QuoteThe year of Jesus supposed birth was 754 ab urbe condita (auc) meaning "from the founding of the City (Rome)".
BCV please... Meaning book chapter and verse.
Quote
Why?  Because Dionysius Exiguus said so, there was no other reason.
Again religion mistake not a God/bible issue. You catholic boys need to learn to seperate religion from God. God hates that religious crap.

QuoteSo we have nothing but opinion (which you choose to believe, but that doesn't make it correct) of people who lived after Jesus supposedly died, except for one man who claimed that he was a spirit living in the "7th heaven" - which sounds more like a psychiatric condition that an historical report.
It's God moron. What God does is not going to be the everyday mundain crap you think limits reality. open you mind mr the world is flat... What do you think Makes God, God?

Quote(BTW, it's existentially positive assertions that bear the burden of proof - "I don't accept your assertion" doesn't.
Not an assertion but a map... the proof in the any map is the destination. Does the map take you where you want to go???
If you want proof follow the map. My map just indicated some of the road signs I saw along the way. it is not meant to be proof unless you are on the journey. Can't proof any map sitting on your ass.

Quote
  So you can keep looking for proof - but be prepared for a LONG search, because you won't find any.  No one has yet - in 2017 years.  (Or whenever he was supposed to have been born - the best we have are conflicting dates.)
if that were true I wouldn't be here and neither would this religion. it would have died 2016 years ago (irony is fun/especially after you acknoweledge we don't know when Jesus was born)
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 21, 2017, 01:02:59 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on July 20, 2017, 09:29:43 PM
Have you written this sceneario on your own?
It was written in accordance to what happened to me.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2017, 01:18:07 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 21, 2017, 01:02:59 PM
It was written in accordance to what happened to me.

You were there in 1st century CE Judea?  Amazing!  If you are a Christian, why don't you kiss the Pope's ring?
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Munch on July 21, 2017, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 21, 2017, 01:18:07 PM
You were there in 1st century CE Judea?  Amazing!  If you are a Christian, why don't you kiss the Pope's ring?

if he's that old, why isn't he the pope himself :O
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 02:50:38 AM
It is pretty hard to scar a cavebear...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Drich0150 on July 22, 2017, 09:12:11 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 02:50:38 AM
It is pretty hard to scar a cavebear...

Duh, it's because he hides from all who threaten it.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Colanth on July 22, 2017, 03:06:05 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 21, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
  :histerical:
It's called G-O-O-G-L-E... maybe you oughta google it before you make an assertion that contridicts one of mine. Why? Because I have at least 3 sources to back up EVERYTHING I say.

Thanks for the laugh.

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus"  Except, of course, that Pilate served as governor, not procurator, under Tiberius.  And he even says that "Christian" derives from "Christus" - meaning "anointed", not "Yeshua bar Yosuf".  The fact that a Roman doesn't know who the ruler of an entire area was (that would be like referring to Trump as the Prime Minister of the US) leads a lot of historians to believe that it was a later addition, like Josephus.  (Christian "sources" just repeat the Bible, they're not actually source material.)


Quoteor it does
But it doesn't, so there's no reason to discuss it.  (Besides, no Jew would have written the passage in Antiquities - which you can't appreciate since you're Christian.)

QuoteHere's the thing with that claim sport... Someone in the 19th century (probably some anti Jesus douche) looked up the oldest complete set of the works of Josephus, which the oldest set is kept by the church in Latin, and it is from the 5th century... (so they "anti-jesus douches" create some sort of conspiracy that a bunch a priest conspired to change the works of Josephus to match the bible..
Actually, we do have earlier copies - and they don't have the passage in question.

This is getting tiresome.  Just be advised that you're not the first god-botherer to make these ridiculous claims, and they've been soundly thrashed - both in the 19th century and here on atheistforums.

There's no objective evidence that your god objectively exists.  There's no objective evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever objectively existed.  There's no objective evidence of the crucifixion (common thieves didn't get crucified).  There's no objective evidence of the resurrection.  There's no objective evidence that a town named Nazareth existed in the first century CE where Nazareth exists now.

Even a few popes have stated that the differences between old Bibles, like the Codex Sinaiticus, and current ones were the imaginations of copyists or abbots.  But what do popes know, anyway?  They don't look at biased reports on the internet, like you do.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 04:31:38 PM
Given the arguments AMONG later christians about what should be included in their sacred texts, one might wonder how inerrant the revelations about the texts were that happened before them...
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Colanth on July 22, 2017, 05:44:11 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 04:31:38 PMGiven the arguments AMONG later christians about what should be included in their sacred texts, one might wonder how inerrant the revelations about the texts were that happened before them...
Well ... remember the quality of data storage back in the first few centuries CE.  So the people in 325 CE knew that facts better than the people who lived them in the first and second centuries.  (If you buy that, I still have a bridge you can buy.)

Constantine had the Council of Nicaea formed to create a universal ("catholic") Christianity, because there were hundreds of competing sects.  (Aththe CoN alone, there were 3 major sects, Arianists, Unitarians and Trinitarians.)  So they talked, threatened, beat, whatever, and came up with 73 books that were "correct" and many that weren't and weren't included.

And people are supposed to accept that a group of people acting like 5 year olds in a sandbox actually got something right?  They didn't even know who wrote the books or when they were written.  And they missed all the contradictions.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2017, 07:16:30 PM
All popes since Pope Liberius (died 366 CE) are anti-popes anyway.  There was a struggle under Pope Liberius, between the Church and the Emperor, who created his own Pope Felix II to support his policies.  Eventually the people of Rome drove out Pope Felix II.  Pope Liberius' successor, Pope Damasus was supported by the by the Emperor and upper class supporters of the previous anti-Pope, Pope Felix II.  The opposing Pope Ursinus, elected by the Roman people ... was supported by the lower class supporters of Pope Liberius.  The supporters of Pope Damasus ... massacred the supporters of Pope Ursinus, and Ursinus was exiled.

Subsequent official propaganda put Pope Damasus as the legitimate pope instead of Pope Ursinus.  Thus permanently polluting the succession with a man who had Roman blood on his hands, but the support of the upper class and the Emperor.  And yes, in this case, the winners wrote the history (including St Jerome and St Ambrose).  But per Catholic canon law, the entire chain has to be legitimate, or the connection to St Peter is severed.  But then ... the Emperors had created the Catholic Church as an instrument of their imperialism.
Title: Re: when God shows up
Post by: Cavebear on July 28, 2017, 03:45:24 AM
Quote from: Colanth on July 22, 2017, 05:44:11 PM
Well ... remember the quality of data storage back in the first few centuries CE.  So the people in 325 CE knew that facts better than the people who lived them in the first and second centuries.  (If you buy that, I still have a bridge you can buy.)

Constantine had the Council of Nicaea formed to create a universal ("catholic") Christianity, because there were hundreds of competing sects.  (Aththe CoN alone, there were 3 major sects, Arianists, Unitarians and Trinitarians.)  So they talked, threatened, beat, whatever, and came up with 73 books that were "correct" and many that weren't and weren't included.

And people are supposed to accept that a group of people acting like 5 year olds in a sandbox actually got something right?  They didn't even know who wrote the books or when they were written.  And they missed all the contradictions.

More good evidence that anything decided by committee is usually idiotic.  I even made a career out of seeing what most people thought as a group and doing the opposite.  When in doubt, think for yourself. 

Emphasis on "THINK" though.