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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: Drich0150 on June 23, 2017, 04:48:20 PM

Title: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 23, 2017, 04:48:20 PM
This all happened before I was saved.
Back story was a buddhist, then a christian for a short while but did not speak the language of the christian church so i never really fully intergrated/was never baptized at that church. then later still completely turn from the religious sent highschool being a terrible person which included beating and persecting chistians. then began to challenge God himself (if such a thing existed) i'd send taunts to god through my victims and dared him to show his face as I wanted to spit in it..

Then one night he showed up

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake because I had stopped breathing, I remember trying to wake myself, but couldn't. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life, the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.

All of this said it still did not convince me thought it all fake as the only hell I knew was dante's inferno and this was nothing like it. then i shared my experience then one of my regulars showed me in the bible where what I experienced was already recorded down, and I wanted to know more. I sought truth no matter where it lead me and I have now come full circle.

In the end after 10 or 15 years of study I can find examples of every key mile marker in hell that i passed long before I knew what the bible said about Hell.

Which is far scarrier now thinking about it than when I actually experienced it.

Yes yes by defination this was another dream, but in my mind there is absolutly nothing that divides the experience of this memory from anyother memory I have. the terror made it all the more real. the ONLY reason I can call it a dream is because I went to bed and when I woke up it was like I fell and bounced really hard out of bed. and there had been a complete outline of my body in 'sweat.'

So because the hell I experenced checks out scripturally I am obligated to share this even though when I do the baiting is endless. but again not here for me or for friends I truly don't want any of you in the spot I found myself in where I came to the understanding that everything I thought I knew was wrong. then the regret.. I want everyone to have the oppertunity to straight ut their BS theology and make a free decision based on the truth and not what you think is true... look at how some of the more active memeber who love being under no God and yet go nuts when I can show them their base theology is wrong. Imagine being me in that line and then having just a true moment where clarity and truth fill you and everything you know is a lie you told yourself over and over till you believed it, what then can you possible say to christ who can see through all your best BS?

One thought just before I lost my mind in hell was that I truly belong here and for a moment see the true justice in leaving me here in Hell while everyone else went ahead.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: sdelsolray on June 23, 2017, 05:07:24 PM
Religious nutter.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 23, 2017, 05:48:16 PM
I have had paranormal experiences too, in dreams and in the hypnogogic/hypnopompic state.  But I am too tied to normal consciousness to say more than "That's interesting".  I have had experience with Tarot cards (occult) and Buddhism (Zen) too.  And Freemasonry and Christianity.  Contrary to any expectation earlier in my life, I discovered that being a Jewish heretic, was closest to who I am ... though I still carry bits from all my previous experiences, including atheism when I was in college.  I have always been interested in Comparative Religion (because cultural anthropology), and still am, though I spend more time in Jewish sources of meaning.

I wish you, and anyone else, well ... on your life's journey.  But don't take your individual experience as being normative for anyone else.  And as you age and grow ... you might not be done seeking yet.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 23, 2017, 06:42:45 PM
Well, Drich , am I supposed to take this as proof of some sort?  Your deluded vision is not any kind of proof for me--other than maybe you could use some professional help.  My first question would be why would god grant you a glimpse of the 'real' world?  Why would he not do this for everybody?  Oh, I keep forgetting--god is not about fairness, just punishing.  You indicated that your second chance was to include the love of god.  And that is demonstrated by you as name calling and putting down others who do not accept your belief?  Really.  Pretty stupid god, if you ask me--and you do seem to reflect that god quite well.  Your version of love must mean demeaning others, name calling and revenge.  Sounds like Trump, to me.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on June 23, 2017, 07:42:17 PM
tl;dr  .....I was an asshole, then experienced oxygen loss to the brain resulting in some hallucinations based on my want for a father figure to make up for the lousy one I got, then decided that I must have seen god because who else would come to me? I mean did you think a wooky or a wasp would be worthy of "saving" ME? C'mon....I am a special snowflake that has his own god...imagine that bitches.......and I am here to convince you that I was right by getting someone....anyone to agree with my idea so I can have justification for believing this bat shit crazy ass bull-shit.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on June 23, 2017, 07:50:43 PM
Cool story, bro.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: hrdlr110 on June 23, 2017, 11:36:18 PM
You're the perfect example of why many people think religion is one of the worst forms of child abuse! Imagine telling your story to a 5-year-old - wait, make that four, by 5 most kids wouldn't believe it I hope. Nightmares - just like yours.....
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mermaid on June 24, 2017, 08:43:27 AM
(https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/4324344+_4d862c691758ac9a8011c4078d0e1eac.jpg)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: GrinningYMIR on June 24, 2017, 11:34:59 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Munch on June 24, 2017, 04:02:27 PM
I'm not sure what the aim of this is. You came here to what is obviously an atheist website and posted a story that you can't draw any rational conclusion from other then it being a religious one. Was it an attempt to convert people here?

Perhaps it helps you, and that fine, if it help you find a sense of peace in your own self, then believe what you want of it. I just don't see why coming here and telling about it, why you thought it would be seen with anything more then skepticism.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Sal1981 on June 24, 2017, 04:05:10 PM
nobody cares, cupcake.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on June 24, 2017, 04:07:35 PM
Admitting your brain was oxygen deprived and then telling people you saw god, and then suggesting it was really god, is rather moronic. But then again, how does someone with an obvious brain injury understand moronic?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: fencerider on June 25, 2017, 02:27:37 AM
youtube is full of stories of people dying and goin to hell and coming back to tell about it. Until we have the ability; like they do in a bunch of sci-fi movies; to see inside someones brain, we have no way to know if they had a real experience or if they are a propaganda artist.

Reminds me of back around 1995 a geology team for an oil company supposedly drilled into Hell. Somebody put up a video on youtube a couple years ago that is supposed to be recorded by the geologists of Hell. Of course I listened to it. Didn't sound anything like what the Bible calls Hell. It sounded like a bunch of people murmuring in a crowded place like a mall or airport lobby. Wasnt a whole lot of people sounding miserable. only one wmn screaming and no men at all. Some people believe it was lifted from a particular horror movie... you gotta ask "if it is real, why did it take 20 years to show up on the internet?".

I rate the recording of the sounds of Hell as plausible or a hoax. Plausible because 1. the recording is too short to say yes or no and 2. There is the faint sound of a man saying "Please help. please help us". Hoax because it is nothing like how the Bible describes it.

I rate Drich's story as a hoax until proven otherwise. There are just too many propaganda stories that are exactly like Drich's story to believe his isn't propaganda too
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Atheon on June 25, 2017, 04:37:22 AM
It's called a "dream". It's not real. It's proof of nothing. Now run along.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 25, 2017, 06:45:05 AM
But, but we love dreams, particularly if it seems to fulfill a political-economic fantasy ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 25, 2017, 09:11:02 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 25, 2017, 06:45:05 AM
But, but we love dreams, particularly if it seems to fulfill a political-economic fantasy ;-)
In the deep, dim misty past (my past), I seem to remember in a book by Camus, I recall a French soldier having a talent I've been envious--the ability to have a wet dream whenever he went to sleep or not.  That is my kind of dream!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 25, 2017, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 25, 2017, 09:11:02 AM
In the deep, dim misty past (my past), I seem to remember in a book by Camus, I recall a French soldier having a talent I've been envious--the ability to have a wet dream whenever he went to sleep or not.  That is my kind of dream!

I prefer a woman, thanks ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 25, 2017, 12:00:08 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 25, 2017, 09:24:31 AM
I prefer a woman, thanks ;-)
I would not turn down the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: SGOS on June 25, 2017, 02:26:19 PM
Dreams seem to me to be mostly bits of junk cobbled together in an incoherent jumble.  Some people analyze them to dig into their subconscious, and often times find something personally revealing, so I think it works, but not for the reasons Freud tells us.  The cobbled jumble that makes up dreams is about as relevant to our lives as laying Tarot cards down on a table.  In fact, one woman who didn't believe in the ability of Tarot cards to be laid out in meaningful patterns told me she used them as one would use dreams to reveal inner discoveries.

Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own.  We dream about a conversation with a stranger, which free associates to a conversation about something relevant in our lives, so we focus on that aspect of our lives, just as a Tarot card with a stranger on it might.  But our minds free associate about things all day long.  Our conscious mind filters the jumble to focus on the task at hand.  I believe the dreams and Tarot cards don't mean anything, but the free associations we invent often do.  And sometimes this leads to revelations about ourselves.  Things like, "Yee Gods!  I really am a jerk, sometimes."  Well, you get the idea.

This is not to say dreams are totally irrelevant.  Sometimes we dream about things that we actually wish for or have previously experienced.  But most of it, for me anyway, is just a jumble of disconnected thoughts, and the reason why we dream still remains a mystery.  I don't believe experts have actually settled on an agreed upon explanation of the why.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 25, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
"Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own." ... this is true for all human experience, but some pattern matching is more useful (see science and math) than others.  The fact that Newtonian mechanics is wrong but useful is a point of interest.  The jury is still out and always will be, if the patterns we find in nature are really there, or it is just useful pragmatism.  As a technologist I don't usually care if the pattern is really there (see Plato) ... just if it is useful in the sub-area I am working in.  But then ... I lean toward William James and the other Pragmatists.  Basically we curve fit thru data points, with prejudice ... there is no wrong answer with a given data set.  But some prejudices are more pragmatic than others.  Newtonian mechanics is much easier than GR for most cases ... so that is what we use in most cases.  What the actual "laws" of nature are, we really don't know ... lay people think there is more certainty than justified.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Blackleaf on June 25, 2017, 03:22:13 PM
Quote from: SGOS on June 25, 2017, 02:26:19 PM
Dreams seem to me to be mostly bits of junk cobbled together in an incoherent jumble.  Some people analyze them to dig into their subconscious, and often times find something personally revealing, so I think it works, but not for the reasons Freud tells us.  The cobbled jumble that makes up dreams is about as relevant to our lives as laying Tarot cards down on a table.  In fact, one woman who didn't believe in the ability of Tarot cards to be laid out in meaningful patterns told me she used them as one would use dreams to reveal inner discoveries.

Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own.  We dream about a conversation with a stranger, which free associates to a conversation about something relevant in our lives, so we focus on that aspect of our lives, just as a Tarot card with a stranger on it might.  But our minds free associate about things all day long.  Our conscious mind filters the jumble to focus on the task at hand.  I believe the dreams and Tarot cards don't mean anything, but the free associations we invent often do.  And sometimes this leads to revelations about ourselves.  Things like, "Yee Gods!  I really am a jerk, sometimes."  Well, you get the idea.

This is not to say dreams are totally irrelevant.  Sometimes we dream about things that we actually wish for or have previously experienced.  But most of it, for me anyway, is just a jumble of disconnected thoughts, and the reason why we dream still remains a mystery.  I don't believe experts have actually settled on an agreed upon explanation of the why.

I have high doubts about shared symbols in dreams, that there are universal meanings in elements found in dreams that are true for everyone. However, I do think they can be used to find what things in life an individual most worries about. Children tend to have more nightmares involving monsters because they are small and vulnerable, but when we grow up, those nightmares become traded for adult worries like showing up to class and having an important exam that you completely forgot to study for. The latter was really common for me, because my grades were the number one concern of my life when I was in college. I also noticed that the characters in my dreams would often completely ignore me no matter what I did. I'm a lucid dreamer, so one time I danced naked in front of a crowd to see if I could get a reaction. Nothing. It was like I was completely invisible. This was probably a reflection of my social insecurities, and a general feeling that people did not value my opinions. One of the things that irritates me the most is when I try to make a point and someone else cuts me off as if they didn't hear me.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: SGOS on June 25, 2017, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 25, 2017, 03:22:13 PM
I have high doubts about shared symbols in dreams, that there are universal meanings in elements found in dreams that are true for everyone. However, I do think they can be used to find what things in life an individual most worries about.
After I quit drinking and promised myself I'd never pick up another, something to which I was committed, but still fearful that I could have a slip, I would occasionally have drunk dreams.  The dream would skip the part where I was in the act of drinking and just begin with me being drunk and then realizing I had fucked up.  Then I would become angry with myself for being so stupid, angry to the point of fury that I had let it happen.  Then I would wake up, realize that it was just a dream, but still be unable to shake the dream anger.  It would go away after a minute or two.  It was weird the way the anger would persist, even when I knew it was just a dream, which was also unusually vivid for me.  I had maybe 10 of those over a 5 year period, and then I quit having them.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:18:49 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 23, 2017, 05:48:16 PM
I have had paranormal experiences too, in dreams and in the hypnogogic/hypnopompic state.  But I am too tied to normal consciousness to say more than "That's interesting".  I have had experience with Tarot cards (occult) and Buddhism (Zen) too.  And Freemasonry and Christianity.  Contrary to any expectation earlier in my life, I discovered that being a Jewish heretic, was closest to who I am ... though I still carry bits from all my previous experiences, including atheism when I was in college.  I have always been interested in Comparative Religion (because cultural anthropology), and still am, though I spend more time in Jewish sources of meaning.

I wish you, and anyone else, well ... on your life's journey.  But don't take your individual experience as being normative for anyone else.  And as you age and grow ... you might not be done seeking yet.

This happened 28+ years ago.. and I have experienced all sorts of "other" things, which is why I said in the beginning we need the bible to frame out and vet our experiences.

I have no doubt joseph smith saw what he claim at least to a degree as well as mohamad, but they believed the hype the messenger was selling and follow their own prideful interpretations.

That said i do beleve that I am no one special and God has this or something like this for anyone who simly seeks the truth and asks.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:39:17 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 23, 2017, 06:42:45 PM
Well, Drich , am I supposed to take this as proof of some sort?
Absolutly not. This is what God did for me just to get my attention. He has stuff for you specifically that will trn you world on it's er in such aways as to know only God could be doing this, and only God can get you out. You want absolute proof all of this is real ask God to sit you down in Hell. I promise He will, just can't say you will get a return ticket. or You can seek God on His terms and let him play out what he has instore for you to establish and maintain your Beliefs!

QuoteYour deluded vision is not any kind of proof for me
-Not meant to be it was for me. All I can do is show you where to find your version of this proof.

Quote-other than maybe you could use some professional help.
Funny you should say that my best friend/best man at my weeding is a psychologist.. He said I am completely nuts, or God help us all to avoid such a fate, if I'm telling the truth.
Quote
  My first question would be why would god grant you a glimpse of the 'real' world?
I asked this for a long long time and found Luke 11.. after the Lord's prayer was the parable about the neighbor begging for bread after hours. I wanted the truth and demanded the truth from God and or the followers he put infront of me... I can only assume that if I had such zeal to beat it out of a christian, then like paul I would not run when people in my place tryied to beat it out of me...

But in short/for sure I simply Ask Sought and knocked till God gave me what I was looking for.

I'm NOT special as I simply followed the direction provided by Him to access Him/The Holy Spirit. I didn't do it my way I did it His even though they were the same.

QuoteWhy would he not do this for everybody?
Like you not everyone wants this. they have a pic of God they keep in a box and like for him to stay there because the world is easier for them to deal with this way.

QuoteOh, I keep forgetting--god is not about fairness, just punishing.
God is not about your fairness., he is about humility and submission. You nor I will ever dictate to God. He is not our friend He is not a genie He is not our buddy. He is God. Simply treat Him as such and the world will begin to change around you.

QuoteYou indicated that your second chance was to include the love of god.
That I would experience that moment of all inclusive all complete feeling/agape' yes.
Quote
And that is demonstrated by you as name calling and putting down others who do not accept your belief? 
Yuuuup. if you call what I've done here as putting people down or name calling then absolutly yes. why? because that is the best I can do. I am flawed squared and this is it.. if you want to have atheist treated better when they are being handed their sundae school theological arguement with it's teeth kicked in then maybe you should convert and be that shinning light I will never be.

Right now I feel I teach as Jesus taught the pharisees and other teacher of the law. think back at all the names He called them.. that is why they had him killed because he was making them look bad, not because they felt loved... and look what came out of it. there were a few pharisees who did convert.

Quote
Really.  Pretty stupid god, if you ask me--and you do seem to reflect that god quite well.  Your version of love must mean demeaning others, name calling and revenge.  Sounds like Trump, to me.
And if i were to judge your 'morality' by what you have said to me.. I wouldn't find anything good to say about what you base your moral beliefs on either!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 23, 2017, 07:42:17 PM
tl;dr  .....I was an asshole, then experienced oxygen loss to the brain resulting in some hallucinations based on my want for a father figure to make up for the lousy one I got, then decided that I must have seen god because who else would come to me? I mean did you think a wooky or a wasp would be worthy of "saving" ME? C'mon....I am a special snowflake that has his own god...imagine that bitches.......and I am here to convince you that I was right by getting someone....anyone to agree with my idea so I can have justification for believing this bat shit crazy ass bull-shit.

That all happen to jive with the biblical account of Hell which I never knew anything about.. I experienced it years before I understood Hell. but yeah crazy so you don't have to talk about anything else.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:43:37 AM
Quote from: Munch on June 24, 2017, 04:02:27 PM
I'm not sure what the aim of this is. You came here to what is obviously an atheist website and posted a story that you can't draw any rational conclusion from other then it being a religious one. Was it an attempt to convert people here?

Perhaps it helps you, and that fine, if it help you find a sense of peace in your own self, then believe what you want of it. I just don't see why coming here and telling about it, why you thought it would be seen with anything more then skepticism.

I was asked about the source of my conversion. the arguement being born into Christian gives you a better chance at being christian.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on June 24, 2017, 04:05:10 PM
nobody cares, cupcake.

Maybe you ought to read the responses before you speak out fruitcup. makes you look bitter and disenfranchised when you say something that is so far left fro the truth people can see.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: fencerider on June 25, 2017, 02:27:37 AM
youtube is full of stories of people dying and goin to hell and coming back to tell about it. Until we have the ability; like they do in a bunch of sci-fi movies; to see inside someones brain, we have no way to know if they had a real experience or if they are a propaganda artist.

Reminds me of back around 1995 a geology team for an oil company supposedly drilled into Hell. Somebody put up a video on youtube a couple years ago that is supposed to be recorded by the geologists of Hell. Of course I listened to it. Didn't sound anything like what the Bible calls Hell. It sounded like a bunch of people murmuring in a crowded place like a mall or airport lobby. Wasnt a whole lot of people sounding miserable. only one wmn screaming and no men at all. Some people believe it was lifted from a particular horror movie... you gotta ask "if it is real, why did it take 20 years to show up on the internet?".

I rate the recording of the sounds of Hell as plausible or a hoax. Plausible because 1. the recording is too short to say yes or no and 2. There is the faint sound of a man saying "Please help. please help us". Hoax because it is nothing like how the Bible describes it.

I rate Drich's story as a hoax until proven otherwise. There are just too many propaganda stories that are exactly like Drich's story to believe his isn't propaganda too

Here's the thing.. I not a prophet. I don't claim to be anything more than an average Christian with the same access to the Holy Spirit of God than the 'base model christian' is supposed to have. That means what God offered to me being a regular smow.. is also offered to you. Maybe not a trip to Hell, but He has something that for you will be undeniable proof of God Good bad or indifferent you will know God did "X" for you. All any of us need do is simply A/S/K pas outlined in Luke 11 for the Holy Spirit.

What better proof of God is there of God than direct access God Himself?

This Hell thing simply woke me up to what was really there. Much more followed.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:39:17 AM
Absolutly not. This is what God did for me just to get my attention. He has stuff for you specifically that will trn you world on it's er in such aways as to know only God could be doing this, and only God can get you out. You want absolute proof all of this is real ask God to sit you down in Hell. I promise He will, just can't say you will get a return ticket. or You can seek God on His terms and let him play out what he has instore for you to establish and maintain your Beliefs!
-Not meant to be it was for me. All I can do is show you where to find your version of this proof.
Funny you should say that my best friend/best man at my weeding is a psychologist.. He said I am completely nuts, or God help us all to avoid such a fate, if I'm telling the truth.  I asked this for a long long time and found Luke 11.. after the Lord's prayer was the parable about the neighbor begging for bread after hours. I wanted the truth and demanded the truth from God and or the followers he put infront of me... I can only assume that if I had such zeal to beat it out of a christian, then like paul I would not run when people in my place tryied to beat it out of me...

But in short/for sure I simply Ask Sought and knocked till God gave me what I was looking for.

I'm NOT special as I simply followed the direction provided by Him to access Him/The Holy Spirit. I didn't do it my way I did it His even though they were the same.
Like you not everyone wants this. they have a pic of God they keep in a box and like for him to stay there because the world is easier for them to deal with this way.
God is not about your fairness., he is about humility and submission. You nor I will ever dictate to God. He is not our friend He is not a genie He is not our buddy. He is God. Simply treat Him as such and the world will begin to change around you.
That I would experience that moment of all inclusive all complete feeling/agape' yes.Yuuuup. if you call what I've done here as putting people down or name calling then absolutly yes. why? because that is the best I can do. I am flawed squared and this is it.. if you want to have atheist treated better when they are being handed their sundae school theological arguement with it's teeth kicked in then maybe you should convert and be that shinning light I will never be.

Right now I feel I teach as Jesus taught the pharisees and other teacher of the law. think back at all the names He called them.. that is why they had him killed because he was making them look bad, not because they felt loved... and look what came out of it. there were a few pharisees who did convert.
And if i were to judge your 'morality' by what you have said to me.. I wouldn't find anything good to say about what you base your moral beliefs on either!

You make all kinds of assumptions about me and the others on this board.  How do you know how hard or long I have asked god to come into my life and demonstrate that there is a god out there.  I actually wasted a long stretch of my life doing just that.  I'll not offer you my boring story, but suffice it to say, I sincerely and longingly asked for the god of the bible to manifest himself to me.  I'm still waiting.  But then it dawned on me fully, that a fiction cannot respond in any way, shape, or form.  That is the answer.  Your god and your bible is a fiction.  It is as real as Bugs Bunny or Mighty Mouse.  And just as provable. 

As for being 'moral'--there is no morality as you mean it.  Your fictional bible proclaims a fictional morality--and that christian morality changes with each and every christian out there.  Right and wrong is established by each society and at each moment of time.  Morality changes, for the rules of society change.  There is ultimately only one source of your morality--you.  And your morality is different than mine or anybody else. 
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Munch on June 26, 2017, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 11:43:37 AM
I was asked about the source of my conversion. the arguement being born into Christian gives you a better chance at being christian.

That is true, being born into a religious household or setting makes it more likely your be of that religion. As such you are pretty much indoctrinated from an early stage of development into what you believe.
Isn't that food for thought?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
You make all kinds of assumptions about me and the others on this board.
not really assumptions.. there are observed situations. You guys are not the snow flakes you think yourselves to be. God made provisions in everything a potential believer would face and their reaction given time and temp of their hearts. from that I can, and do formulate truths which do put people off by design. Why? humility. So you have a marked measure of how far you got to go to see God. the madder you are at what I have to say the farther you are.

I know most of you think and want to remain enigmas so let pretend I am as stupid as you keep telling yourselves even though I have gone though and crapped on some of your best arguments. You can pretend, I know nothing about you. That I don't have 20 years in speaking to people just like you and nearly another 10 in study. Lets pretend I just make crap as I go along so you can feel good about yourself and your position in the universe.. then what? what do you tell yourself when I keep crapping on your best arguements? when I keep making sense of the bible when I show you how simple all of this reall is... then what? That's right he's stupid.. Till I'm not anymore and member have to pm each other to not be reminded about how much sense I am making.

QuoteHow do you know how hard or long I have asked god to come into my life and demonstrate that there is a god out there.
Because it doesn't f-ing matter if your God has shown to you to be false/dead. If God sent the wind and the rain to tear down your faith/house and you prayed and prayed and no one came, that means God was showing you that you were a foolish man who built your house on the sand. Meaning your idea of God is wrong.. Because according to Christ that is our foundation to our Spiritual homes. Our foundation. if we build on the rock then we are building on the actual God. Everything else is sand.

Now do not misunderstand me. I am not talking about salvation. Any monkey man can find salvation (and they have no souls ;) ) You can be saved and live on the sand. but don't expect God to bless you or help you out of anything if he is showing you to be on sand and you do nothing about it..

God sends the wind and rain to destroy what we want to hang on to. even now, look at how you are proud of all you did... Again A wise man and a foolish man build an identical structures/house. meaning religiously they did the exact same things... One man builds his house on a true pic of God and the winds and rains come and his house was proofed/vetted that He knew God. while the fool who does all the same thing the wise man does... His house, because it was not built where God told Him to build it fell... not so you could waller in your own pitty and grow angry at God, no it fell so you double down and research where to build.

If you want a two way relationship with God you have to do thing his way, not your. His way takes no time if you come in the right heart and mind!

QuoteI actually wasted a long stretch of my life doing just that
that doesn't meaning anything if you did not find God. I might have searched with earnestness for maybe a few months once I got my mind right.. more over I set out to read the NT and found God before I finished. then read the rest of the bible like I already knew what was on page. with in a year had a class teaching and answering questions then answered questions for preachers and elders, then was put incharge of a collage age singles ministry (the hoplessly single scarry people) within 6 months got an in with the local university, had all kinds of social activities and write in debates. where some of the admin got involved and we made quick work of them as well. and in all that time from then to now little has changed. you all read the same commentaries based on the same sundae school logic, and you all keep making the same theological errors. but 'we' can't know who you are. you have to be a mystery!

QuoteI'll not offer you my boring story, but suffice it to say, I sincerely and longingly asked for the god of the bible to manifest himself to me.
Then by all accounts your atheism is an answered prayer... God moved you to kill off or clear the slate on what you think God to be. now if your mind can remain open you are poised to build a true pic of God.


QuoteI'm still waiting. 
If you don't know what God looks like or who God is how could you possible know you are still waiting? at best all you can say is you broken down version of God has left you behind.

QuoteBut then it dawned on me fully, that a fiction cannot respond in any way, shape, or form.
Your right!

QuoteThat is the answer.
indeed!

QuoteYour god and your bible is a fiction.
Actually I have 24/7/365 access to my God I can ask God anything and get a answer on it. It's your version of the God of the bible who is silent not mine.. Therefore you got it wrong.. I didn't. (I don't play guess what number I'm thinking of.)

QuoteIt is as real as Bugs Bunny or Mighty Mouse.  And just as provable. 
what does proof of God look like? if you don't know how will you ever identify it?

I say God or rather direct access to God is proof of God. Even if it is for one at a time on an one on one basis.

Quote
As for being 'moral'--there is no morality as you mean it.  Your fictional bible proclaims a fictional morality--and that christian morality changes with each and every christian out there.  Right and wrong is established by each society and at each moment of time.  Morality changes, for the rules of society change.  There is ultimately only one source of your morality--you.  And your morality is different than mine or anybody else.
yeah...Biblical Christianity is not about being 'moral.' It is about being redeemed.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 04:02:51 PM
Here's a woman who really believed she had a ghost problem - turned out to be carbon monoxide poisoning!

https://www.ted.com/talks/carrie_poppy_a_scientific_approach_to_the_paranormal/transcript?language=en


No ghost, no goblin, no God.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 04:29:40 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 04:02:51 PM
Here's a woman who really believed she had a ghost problem - turned out to be carbon monoxide poisoning!

https://www.ted.com/talks/carrie_poppy_a_scientific_approach_to_the_paranormal/transcript?language=en


No ghost, no goblin, no God.

I guess the carbon monoxide was localized under my bed.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 04:32:40 PM
I wasn't specifically referring to you, just that people often misidentify causes of weird stuff.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 26, 2017, 05:49:27 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 04:02:51 PM
Here's a woman who really believed she had a ghost problem - turned out to be carbon monoxide poisoning!

https://www.ted.com/talks/carrie_poppy_a_scientific_approach_to_the_paranormal/transcript?language=en


No ghost, no goblin, no God.

Except my experiences, and that of others, had no connection to carbon monoxide.  Oxygen maybe, that is always available.

"yeah...Biblical Christianity is not about being 'moral.' It is about being redeemed." ... that is why so many Christians are going to Hell.  Muslims for a different reason: "Allah made me do it".
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on June 26, 2017, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 04:29:40 PM
I guess the carbon monoxide was localized under my bed.

Not necessarily, sometimes people who have their head up their ass for a long time suffer from methane exposure....prolly similar..
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 05:59:20 PM
I bet he believes we actually read that stupid shit he wrote!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 26, 2017, 06:07:11 PM
Any Jew-boy can write holy writ ...

Quote
ܝܢ ܬܥ Ü'Ü¥Ü"ܝܢܢܝܢÜ" ܘܐܣ ܬܥ ܡܥܡܥ
ܐܢܕ ܬܥ ܡܥܡܥ ܘܐܣ ܦܥܦܥ
ܐܢܕ ܦܥܦܥ ܣܡܝܠܥܕ

Please interpret that if you can ...
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 06:13:22 PM
I can read that - it says:

Shop smart - shop S-Mart!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 26, 2017, 06:14:16 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 26, 2017, 06:13:22 PM
I can read that - it says:

Shop smart - shop S-Mart!

Also "half off the week before Passover!"  That is why it is called "the good news".
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Simon Moon on June 26, 2017, 07:02:47 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 23, 2017, 04:48:20 PM

Then one night he showed up

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake because I had stopped breathing, I remember trying to wake myself, but couldn't. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

So....

You had a case of sleep paralysis accompanied by night terrors.

Yeah, that's a rational reason to believe.

Please don't ever attempt to argue that you are a critical thinker or a skeptic. Or that you have rational warrant for your beliefs. When it sure looks like you had nothing more than a well known, natural experience, that you wildly misinterpreted.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 07:47:58 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 02:54:28 PM
not really assumptions.. there are observed situations. You guys are not the snow flakes you think yourselves to be. God made provisions in everything a potential believer would face and their reaction given time and temp of their hearts. from that I can, and do formulate truths which do put people off by design. Why? humility. So you have a marked measure of how far you got to go to see God. the madder you are at what I have to say the farther you are.

I know most of you think and want to remain enigmas so let pretend I am as stupid as you keep telling yourselves even though I have gone though and crapped on some of your best arguments. You can pretend, I know nothing about you. That I don't have 20 years in speaking to people just like you and nearly another 10 in study. Lets pretend I just make crap as I go along so you can feel good about yourself and your position in the universe.. then what? what do you tell yourself when I keep crapping on your best arguements? when I keep making sense of the bible when I show you how simple all of this reall is... then what? That's right he's stupid.. Till I'm not anymore and member have to pm each other to not be reminded about how much sense I am making.

  Because it doesn't f-ing matter if your God has shown to you to be false/dead. If God sent the wind and the rain to tear down your faith/house and you prayed and prayed and no one came, that means God was showing you that you were a foolish man who built your house on the sand. Meaning your idea of God is wrong.. Because according to Christ that is our foundation to our Spiritual homes. Our foundation. if we build on the rock then we are building on the actual God. Everything else is sand.

Now do not misunderstand me. I am not talking about salvation. Any monkey man can find salvation (and they have no souls ;) ) You can be saved and live on the sand. but don't expect God to bless you or help you out of anything if he is showing you to be on sand and you do nothing about it..

God sends the wind and rain to destroy what we want to hang on to. even now, look at how you are proud of all you did... Again A wise man and a foolish man build an identical structures/house. meaning religiously they did the exact same things... One man builds his house on a true pic of God and the winds and rains come and his house was proofed/vetted that He knew God. while the fool who does all the same thing the wise man does... His house, because it was not built where God told Him to build it fell... not so you could waller in your own pitty and grow angry at God, no it fell so you double down and research where to build.

If you want a two way relationship with God you have to do thing his way, not your. His way takes no time if you come in the right heart and mind!
that doesn't meaning anything if you did not find God. I might have searched with earnestness for maybe a few months once I got my mind right.. more over I set out to read the NT and found God before I finished. then read the rest of the bible like I already knew what was on page. with in a year had a class teaching and answering questions then answered questions for preachers and elders, then was put incharge of a collage age singles ministry (the hoplessly single scarry people) within 6 months got an in with the local university, had all kinds of social activities and write in debates. where some of the admin got involved and we made quick work of them as well. and in all that time from then to now little has changed. you all read the same commentaries based on the same sundae school logic, and you all keep making the same theological errors. but 'we' can't know who you are. you have to be a mystery!
Then by all accounts your atheism is an answered prayer... God moved you to kill off or clear the slate on what you think God to be. now if your mind can remain open you are poised to build a true pic of God.

If you don't know what God looks like or who God is how could you possible know you are still waiting? at best all you can say is you broken down version of God has left you behind.
Your right!
indeed!
Actually I have 24/7/365 access to my God I can ask God anything and get a answer on it. It's your version of the God of the bible who is silent not mine.. Therefore you got it wrong.. I didn't. (I don't play guess what number I'm thinking of.)
what does proof of God look like? if you don't know how will you ever identify it?

I say God or rather direct access to God is proof of God. Even if it is for one at a time on an one on one basis.
yeah...Biblical Christianity is not about being 'moral.' It is about being redeemed.
You are a bit different than most christians--but not in any important way.  You have a unique twist to the bible blended in with the usual drivel.  But it is still based on a fiction.

What you are telling me is to stop thinking and stop using my senses and stop relying on my experiences and start believing in the same god you do.  Then I will succeed and find god.  Well, frankly, that and you are bullshit.  I've explored what you are trying to peddle long and hard.  And find that it is a fiction.  That fiction can do nothing for me or against me--just as Roger Rabbit can't effect me.  If your god were not a fiction he would have made whatever choices we need to make clear and easy to follow.  We would not even need to read a fictional book to get it.  You crap is just that --fictional crap.  And you still have not given me a single fact to base you delusional crap you call a belief yet.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 26, 2017, 11:04:23 PM
Quote from: Simon Moon on June 26, 2017, 07:02:47 PM
So....

You had a case of sleep paralysis accompanied by night terrors.

Yeah, that's a rational reason to believe.

Please don't ever attempt to argue that you are a critical thinker or a skeptic. Or that you have rational warrant for your beliefs. When it sure looks like you had nothing more than a well known, natural experience, that you wildly misinterpreted.

Sleep paralysis is also often interpreted as alien abductions ;-)

Echoing Mike CL ... the Pied Piper was not a nice man.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 26, 2017, 11:04:23 PM
Sleep paralysis is also often interpreted as alien abductions ;-)

Echoing Mike CL ... the Pied Piper was not a nice man.
Especially if you are a Rat.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 27, 2017, 03:06:58 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Especially if you are a Rat.

No sympathy for the townspeople who refused to pay him, or their children he abducted?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Simon Moon on June 26, 2017, 07:02:47 PM
So....

You had a case of sleep paralysis accompanied by night terrors.

Yeah, that's a rational reason to believe.

Please don't ever attempt to argue that you are a critical thinker or a skeptic. Or that you have rational warrant for your beliefs. When it sure looks like you had nothing more than a well known, natural experience, that you wildly misinterpreted.

..that yeilded unknown information that I later vetted over years of study and service. That was a big part of it.. I thought hell was dante's inferno and it turnout almost the oppsite, but low and behold the bible always had described it that way.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 10:00:39 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 26, 2017, 07:47:58 PM
You are a bit different than most christians--but not in any important way.  You have a unique twist to the bible blended in with the usual drivel.  But it is still based on a fiction.
until God shows up. Then it all becomes too real. I'm different because me and people like me are the real thing sport. we seen and experience what the bible describes christianity to be about. it even says we will be a peculiar people. You can't be gamma ray-ed by God and not be transformed into something. The view of the bible is skewed just a little off normal but makes a hellva lot more sense doesn't it.(no paradoxes/fits with fossil record) all of the thing Jesus said as meaning far above and beyond what is generally taught.

There are two types of followers of Christ He even said so.(when speaking to doubting thomas)  there are those who can sustain belief their whole life on nothing but faith. and to them they get extra cookies when they get to heaven.. Then there are the belief followers. meaning unless they believe first unless they can not follow. Thomas was one such follower. He demanded to put his hand in the side of Christ first. before he would believe.. and what did God do? whatever it took for Thomas. Those in these dead churches are the faith types. I was a belief first type, and God showed me what I needed to see. i simply had to do things His way instead of my own. This is not something God only did for me.. This same thing is offered to everyone.

QuoteWhat you are telling me is to stop thinking and stop using my senses and stop relying on my experiences and start believing in the same god you do.
nuupe. You just need to Ask, Seek and knock as outline by luke 11. for me that was beating the hel out of highschool christians and taunting with questions they could not answer. while demanding truth from them, and when truth was provided I followed it.

QuoteThen I will succeed and find god.
At what point did I say I had to surrender anything? I simply followed unexplored avenues with honesty in search for the truth.

QuoteWell, frankly, that and you are bullshit.  I've explored what you are trying to peddle long and hard.
what were you seeking? salvation? wishes? money? a girlfriend? what didn't god give you that made you decide to give up? Also know I asked for none of that. I only wanted to know the truth. That is what I am offering to any of you now.

QuoteAnd find that it is a fiction.  That fiction can do nothing for me or against me--just as Roger Rabbit can't effect me.
That sounds like I did.. I reasoned how can God burn a spirit or soul in Hell, that makes no sense. if the body dies then so to does all of our nerves... f-god f- his hell he doesn't scare me with that.. besides all of that what are gnashing of teeth? what is the big deal there...

My advise, challenge God put the religious stuff down it does not work for you. tell God what you think. tell Him what you want. Again for me it wa truth. we are promised nothing less, so He will grant you that. Tell him to open you eye, ears and mind so you can see him hear him and process what you see and hear... keep asking and seeking this, and hang on to something. as you will be awaken from the matrix shortly.

QuoteIf your god were not a fiction
Again sport I do not have issue with "my God" the only person in this conversation with God problems is you.

Quotehe would have made whatever choices we need to make clear and easy to follow.
not much of a reader of the bible are ya?

He did make it very easy for the jews, and look at all that happened to them as a nation. they turned away from him so much it was hard to believe they were ever with him. then towards the time of Christ their religion became a series of check lists people had to pay the temple to check off before they could have fellowship with one another.

God made it so much easier, and all the more difficult at the same time. In that it is easy to be saved. Heck most of you a-holes are probably still saved to one degree or another. (but don't take my word for it as in the end it is not my call) so that part is easy, it is the second 1/2 of salvation that most church have absolutly no clue about. all of their efforts are about saving the unsaved... what about the saved? what maintain their relationship with God? For the faith driven followers being saved is enough. but for the rest of us God pour out the holy Spirit on the church. In that when we receive a measure of the Spirit we all share core spiritual fruits/attributes and some share gifts. like my answers or some people's ability to preach or yes other's abilities to heal, and the like. This contact with the Holy Spirit is proof of God as you are brought into a whole new level of understanding and awareness that you never had access before.

Quote
We would not even need to read a fictional book to get it. 
the book is a guide moron, as God is not the only being offering 'spiritual rides.' you can go off without the bible just like you can go into vans with strangers to help them find their puppies, but don't blame me or God if and when you wake up 'butt hurt' by the experience.

Quote
You crap is just that --fictional crap.  And you still have not given me a single fact to base you delusional crap you call a belief yet.
If you refuse to see what is truly there doesn't that make you the delusional one?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 10:47:04 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 10:00:39 AM

If you refuse to see what is truly there doesn't that make you the delusional one?
This is it in a nutshell.  You insist that your fictional babble and and gwd are real.  And if I don't 'see' that then I'm the delusional one. :)))))  What a nutcake.  If I were you and could think rationally for just a second or two, I'd seek professional help for your mental illness.  You and facts just don't go together.  You insist your beliefs are facts.  Typical mentally ill theist. 
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 10:47:04 AM
This is it in a nutshell.  You insist that your fictional babble and and gwd are real.  And if I don't 'see' that then I'm the delusional one. :)))))  What a nutcake.  If I were you and could think rationally for just a second or two, I'd seek professional help for your mental illness.  You and facts just don't go together.  You insist your beliefs are facts.  Typical mentally ill theist.

But again you won't even consider that you might just be facing the wrong direction...

What if seeing God was as simple as facing east at midnight every harvest moon, and you have faced every direction except east, then cite your experience of facing every point on the compass besides east as 'proof there is no God?' Then while I am facing east and I see what I see and know to be true, you have the nerve to call me nuts...

What if it were more that just seeing God, what if God blesses me with idk the worldly stuff as well. what if God put me in a place where I know I can ask for anything and just about get exactly what I ask for everytime? What if He put you there and someone called you nuts??? would it matter much to you?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Sal1981 on June 27, 2017, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:16:13 PM
But again you won't even consider that you might just be facing the wrong direction...

What if seeing God was as simple as facing east at midnight every harvest moon, and you have faced every direction except east, then cite your experience of facing every point on the compass besides east as 'proof there is no God?' Then while I am facing east and I see what I see and know to be true, you have the nerve to call me nuts...
You're delusional.

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:16:13 PMWhat if it were more that just seeing God, what if God blesses me with idk the worldly stuff as well. what if God put me in a place where I know I can ask for anything and just about get exactly what I ask for everytime? What if He put you there and someone called you nuts??? would it matter much to you?
That's the gist of The Secret. Read that book, have you?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:16:13 PM
But again you won't even consider that you might just be facing the wrong direction...

What if seeing God was as simple as facing east at midnight every harvest moon, and you have faced every direction except east, then cite your experience of facing every point on the compass besides east as 'proof there is no God?' Then while I am facing east and I see what I see and know to be true, you have the nerve to call me nuts...

What if it were more that just seeing God, what if God blesses me with idk the worldly stuff as well. what if God put me in a place where I know I can ask for anything and just about get exactly what I ask for everytime? What if He put you there and someone called you nuts??? would it matter much to you?
Yours is the god of the hoops.  You have to do it 'god's way' for it to work.  Only god never shows up to say or show what that 'way' is.  A sane person would conclude there is no god--but then, you are not sane.  It does not take 'nerve' to call you nuts--you demonstrate it every post.  If you get exactly what you ask for by you sky daddy, why not ask the goody giver to convert me???  BTW, god can do anything his shyster little heart desires to me.  I call upon your wonderful all knowing, all seeing, all powerful Oz..............err, god to fuck me over and over and over and without a condom; or to make me wealthy beyond all human ability to comprehend; or anything in between.   Or better still, cure a defective baby; or feed a starving child--yeah, if he did that, then I may pay attention.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 27, 2017, 05:16:34 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
..............err, god to fuck me over and over and over and without a condom;
Jeez, I wonder what kinds of divine STDs a God might have!?


:headscratch:
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 27, 2017, 05:16:34 PM
Jeez, I wonder what kinds of divine STDs a God might have!?


:headscratch:
Isn't it amazing how all the theists insist their god is so loving, just and fair?  Yet they fail to mention anything about all the diseases he hands out to the unborn and new born.  Why create diseases at all?? 
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Jason78 on June 27, 2017, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 23, 2017, 04:48:20 PM
This all happened before I was saved.

Does everyone get this?  And is it in full screen IMAX 3D? 

It should be pretty easy for me to convert if I get a heads up like this.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 27, 2017, 11:12:22 PM
Quote from: Jason78 on June 27, 2017, 07:20:45 PM
Does everyone get this?  And is it in full screen IMAX 3D? 

It should be pretty easy for me to convert if I get a heads up like this.

Theists and atheists don't get it ... the right word isn't "convert" ... that is Uncle Ben's Rice ... it is "authentic".  Ask someone "Are you authentic?".
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
Yours is the god of the hoops.  You have to do it 'god's way' for it to work.  Only god never shows up to say or show what that 'way' is.
why would you assume the world over experiences God as you do? are you someone special? someone God HAS to take notice of?

Seriously who are you that God must do anything except give you the same rank and file oppertunity he has given everyone. You are just some douche bag who wrongly thinks he and God if there is a God would be friends...

What if... There is a God and He doesn't want you to think you and He are buddies.. I know that's just crazy talk cause you could only believe in a 'my buddy' God, but lets says your My buddy god is bs, and the God of the bible is looking for 'servants' that buddies. So then why would a servant seeking God look to fuel your BS 'my Buddy' theology? What if God simply dropped you like it's hot, because in no way shape or form was he looking to be your servant your geneie??? So then what if you have a correct view of God and this God does show up? then what? are you crazy because without a doubt you know God is alive and well and He gives you plan and purpose for your life?

QuoteA sane person would conclude there is no god--but then, you are not sane.
flip the coin sport. does it make you insane if you won't put yourself in a position to ever verify God? even if it costs you nothing?

No that just makes you proud. And just like me I am proud of what I know to be true, because God has indeed taken the time to show me what is what.

QuoteIt does not take 'nerve' to call you nuts--you demonstrate it every post.  If you get exactly what you ask for by you sky daddy, why not ask the goody giver to convert me???
As I said above pride. You are too proud to meet God on His terms. it isn't about me it is about you and him.

QuoteBTW, god can do anything his shyster little heart desires to me.
what if.. He wants nothing to do with you till you can mster up enough humility to meet Him where He said Meet Him?

Think about it. If trump invites you to the white house for a state dinner and tells you it is black tie, and you show up looking like you do now, do you think he will do a song and dance for you so that you can attend his event? Then why would God? You should be honored at the invite. It's a big deal.. we were invited to one of the inaugural dinners/ball and despite what you think of the man personally it is a big deal to simply be on the list. we didn't go and I did not expect trump to show up begging me to go to the next thing he had. So then why should the alpha and omega be made to do a jig for you? Again who are you exactly? why can't you meet God on His terms?

QuoteI call upon your wonderful all knowing, all seeing, all powerful Oz..............err, god to fuck me over and over and over and without a condom; or to make me wealthy beyond all human ability to comprehend; or anything in between.   Or better still, cure a defective baby; or feed a starving child--yeah, if he did that, then I may pay attention.
no you wouldn't that crap happens daily in the world and it is attributed to some medical 'anomaly.'
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 27, 2017, 05:29:09 PM
Isn't it amazing how all the theists insist their god is so loving, just and fair?  Yet they fail to mention anything about all the diseases he hands out to the unborn and new born.  Why create diseases at all??

population control in a fallen world.

This is not heaven guys.. This is as close to a satan run world/domain as it gets. Satan does not run hell, he is the power man turned control of this world over to. This is demonstrated by the temptation of Christ and satan offered this whole world and everything in it if he would simply bow down to Him... Not much of a temptation If Satan doesn't own what he is offering.

So it's not God handing out cancer to the unborn. God is offering a better world better life than this, apart from all of this evil and sin.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 11:28:05 AM
Quote from: Jason78 on June 27, 2017, 07:20:45 PM
Does everyone get this?  And is it in full screen IMAX 3D? 

It should be pretty easy for me to convert if I get a heads up like this.

Yes everyone to whatever degree gets this attention.

Look at doubting Thomas in the upper room, and the Saul/paul of tarsus. Jesus does not condemn these men for needing proof, we must simply give ourselves over to seeking the truth no matter where it leads us. I am NOTHING special and look what has been done for me... (ill posts a few more signs and wonders type stuff in the comming days)

God will do what ever you need done specific to your life to help you establish and maintain your belief.

He knows not all can work on faith.. The faith guys get more in heaven, but at the same time he does not punish those who need proof. you must simply humble yourself enough to do what he says to obtain it (luke 11 A/S/K) This is between you and God no one ever need know.

I most certainly am not asking for anything.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 12:38:30 PM
Sorry, but you don't understand Paul either.  Read "In Search of Paul" by Crossan, 2004.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 12:38:30 PM
Sorry, but you don't understand Paul either.  Read "In Search of Paul" by Crossan, 2004.

Sory but Crossan understanding of Paul is at best speculatory. He outright dismisses whole swaths of passage just to create friction and misalignment between Christ and Paul. Mr. Cross does not understand one simple precept that dismisses his whole commentary. In that Jesus when He spoke, he spoke of the law and condition of the law in the moment in which he lived, and at the end just before his assertion spoke of passing the torch to the 'helper' who was to come after. This shows a predetermined/intention evolution of the religion.

If you read the teaching of Christ he does not set up the logistics of a religion. rather He was a wrecking ball that destroyed the Pharisaical hold the leadership had over the people. To the people He sent the 12, to the rest we got Paul. Paul had the leg up because dimwitte gentiles knew nothing of the law andtherefore did not need to be jews first inorder to be christian.

That one little detail obliterates crossan's book. Jesus Himself teaches this is a couple different parables but people like crossan refuse to acknowledge them so they can me living pharisees.

I would contend there is NOTHING that Paul said that interfered with what Christ said, but rather Christ was a precursor to Paul.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 12:38:30 PM
Sorry, but you don't understand Paul either.  Read "In Search of Paul" by Crossan, 2004.

I know I already answered this by speaking topically, but now I want to speak personally...

You ever think that maybe perhaps you are the one who does not understand Paul? I mean after all your the one who can not reconsile the bible, your the one who check out of Christianity because you found too many confusing things...

Maybe just maybe because I can reconsile Paul and jesus without changing a word either says I may.. get them both.. or at least better than you do/oh great one who has lost himself in OT judaism (A religion that even the jews today know they can not practice)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 01:53:03 PM
I know I already answered this by speaking topically, but now I want to speak personally...

You ever think that maybe perhaps you are the one who does not understand Paul? I mean after all your the one who can not reconsile the bible, your the one who check out of Christianity because you found too many confusing things...

Maybe just maybe because I can reconsile Paul and jesus without changing a word either says I may.. get them both.. or at least better than you do/oh great one who has lost himself in OT judaism (A religion that even the jews today know they can not practice)

I find the best experts out there, and read and compare what they say.  Like a patient getting multiple opinions from more than one doctor.  I don't claim to be a doctor myself ... that would be malpractice!  It has taken a lot of effort to learn to competently comparison shop humans .. but I like to think I have gotten better at it over the years.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
Sory but Crossan understanding of Paul is at best speculatory. He outright dismisses whole swaths of passage just to create friction and misalignment between Christ and Paul. Mr. Cross does not understand one simple precept that dismisses his whole commentary. In that Jesus when He spoke, he spoke of the law and condition of the law in the moment in which he lived, and at the end just before his assertion spoke of passing the torch to the 'helper' who was to come after. This shows a predetermined/intention evolution of the religion.

If you read the teaching of Christ he does not set up the logistics of a religion. rather He was a wrecking ball that destroyed the Pharisaical hold the leadership had over the people. To the people He sent the 12, to the rest we got Paul. Paul had the leg up because dimwitte gentiles knew nothing of the law andtherefore did not need to be jews first inorder to be christian.

That one little detail obliterates crossan's book. Jesus Himself teaches this is a couple different parables but people like crossan refuse to acknowledge them so they can me living pharisees.

I would contend there is NOTHING that Paul said that interfered with what Christ said, but rather Christ was a precursor to Paul.

So, you think you are a scholar then ... and you dismiss a scholar, if they get one little thing wrong in your own opinion?  You do have a high opinion of yourself.  I don't agree with everything Crossan writes or says, but I do know he is worth considering.  I know he knows little about Judaism, and has had to struggle his whole life to overcome his Catholicism.  I know some things he doesn't know, because I have worked hard to get where I am at now.  One has to know the influence of India, Babylon, Egypt and Greece over Hellenistic Judaism.  One has to know Kabbalah too.

You might gain from listening to ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2SvqhfevE

Please learn to say this very fast!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on June 28, 2017, 07:59:34 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:30:35 PM
I find the best experts out there,

ahh, there lies the whole nut my friends. If one needs an "expert" to explain the babble...when indeed the babble says exactly what it says it does...one can only come to the conclusion that the babble indeed says exactly what is says it does and....a lot of people scramble to say what they think it says because that shit be stupid...surely the almighty allknowing god could write his book for the common man eh? I mean, how smart do yo have to be to know that women, on their period are filthy and need to go out in the woods for a week?  Makes perfect sense for idiots.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 03:57:30 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 23, 2017, 07:42:17 PM
tl;dr  .....I was an asshole, then experienced oxygen loss to the brain resulting in some hallucinations based on my want for a father figure to make up for the lousy one I got, then decided that I must have seen god because who else would come to me? I mean did you think a wooky or a wasp would be worthy of "saving" ME? C'mon....I am a special snowflake that has his own god...imagine that bitches.......and I am here to convince you that I was right by getting someone....anyone to agree with my idea so I can have justification for believing this bat shit crazy ass bull-shit.
I'm sorry you had a hard time coming to atheism.  My path was SO easy; I just always WAS...  And I am very relieved for myself that mine was easy.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:30:35 PM
I find the best experts out there, and read and compare what they say.  Like a patient getting multiple opinions from more than one doctor.  I don't claim to be a doctor myself ... that would be malpractice!  It has taken a lot of effort to learn to competently comparison shop humans .. but I like to think I have gotten better at it over the years.

lol.. I had a rabbi rosenthall who taught volumes in the way you are failing right now. where He succeeded and where you fail is in your content. He brought content to a discussion set it up and delivered a message, Then and only then did he come back with the one line retorts that tied his messages together. it was masterful.

Understand what rabbi rosenthall did is not what you are doing. this is a jagged attempt at a back hand smack to someone who holds your values. Again I'm not a Sadducee.. I don't hold myself to your standards and really don't care about your judgements personally. However I am beginning to see you as a boat anchor to these people that fills their 'religious quota.'

Let's see if 'we' can't do something about that.

Maybe some more teaching on the jewish culture or maybe some more hebrew quotes will set me straight... 

Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 02:38:17 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 28, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
So, you think you are a scholar then
I think myself a student sport.
Quote
... and you dismiss a scholar, if they get one little thing wrong in your own opinion?
it's not one thing... because youve gotten several things wrong you need to be exposed as a blind guide. maybe not because yu see yourself a certain way but because others hold yu to this standard.
Quote
You do have a high opinion of yourself. 
I do not hold an opinion of myself I am simply an a or b person. i classify and compartmentalize, and I move on. if you are not an A then B if not a nor b then you are a snow flake.

QuoteI don't agree with everything Crossan writes or says, but I do know he is worth considering.
if the man is wrong for the one thing he is known for... then what purpose does he serve for the purpose of this conversation?
Quote
I know he knows little about Judaism, and has had to struggle his whole life to overcome his Catholicism.
So because of that it is ok to throw out 2/3 of the NT? I don't care what problems the man has had God sends the wind and rain to all of us. If your house falls over that's because it is built on the wrong foundation.
Quote
  I know some things he doesn't know, because I have worked hard to get where I am at now.  One has to know the influence of India, Babylon, Egypt and Greece over Hellenistic Judaism.  One has to know Kabbalah too.
Yeah no thanks tom hanks!

Quote
You might gain from listening to ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2SvqhfevE

Please learn to say this very fast!
use your own words please not a watcher of other people tripe.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on June 29, 2017, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 02:38:17 PM
I think myself a student sport.
A student who doesn't learn anything. That's an amazing concept!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 04:15:02 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 29, 2017, 03:23:49 PM
A student who doesn't learn anything. That's an amazing concept!

Is there anyone here qualified to teach?

Aside from myself of course..
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Blackleaf on June 29, 2017, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 04:15:02 PM
Is there anyone here qualified to teach?

Aside from myself of course..

Just about everyone BUT you, actually...
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on June 29, 2017, 06:38:34 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 04:15:02 PM
Is there anyone here qualified to teach?

Aside from myself of course..
Yeah, you've taught us how to write really long and boring twaddle.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 08:14:18 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 04:15:02 PM
Is there anyone here qualified to teach?

Aside from myself of course..

Sorry ... teaching is putting your little lamp on the lamp stand, to shed to light.  Not to shed some darkness ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 29, 2017, 02:26:41 PM
lol.. I had a rabbi rosenthall who taught volumes in the way you are failing right now. where He succeeded and where you fail is in your content. He brought content to a discussion set it up and delivered a message, Then and only then did he come back with the one line retorts that tied his messages together. it was masterful.

Understand what rabbi rosenthall did is not what you are doing. this is a jagged attempt at a back hand smack to someone who holds your values. Again I'm not a Sadducee.. I don't hold myself to your standards and really don't care about your judgements personally. However I am beginning to see you as a boat anchor to these people that fills their 'religious quota.'

Let's see if 'we' can't do something about that.

Maybe some more teaching on the jewish culture or maybe some more hebrew quotes will set me straight...

My rabbi is Rebbe Nachman of Bratislava ... a descendent of the Baal Shem Tov himself (Hasidic founder).  Now there was a real Yid.  Is your rabbi even a Yid?  Sorry, I don't give formal lectures ... I teach the Socratic way, one on one ... or one on a few.  Adults only.

NaNachs in Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk_-bevtqMs

If Jesus were around, he would be right in the middle of that ... he was a party animal ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 29, 2017, 09:08:30 PM
Coming to an atheist site with your conversion story is a bit like going to an orgy and bragging to everyone about your new chastity ring and the benefits of just saying no to sex..
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: fencerider on June 30, 2017, 03:46:15 AM
drich said "why dont you just meet god on his terms?" Sorry mate but god has to prove that he exists first before he can demand any terms. god has to prove he exists before he can expect any faith

Are you going to teach us the right way to pray too? I can go on youtube and find a hundred videos of people claiming the right way to pray
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 30, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: fencerider on June 30, 2017, 03:46:15 AM
drich said "why dont you just meet god on his terms?" Sorry mate but god has to prove that he exists first before he can demand any terms. god has to prove he exists before he can expect any faith

Are you going to teach us the right way to pray too? I can go on youtube and find a hundred videos of people claiming the right way to pray
Don't your mean 'prey'??
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:04:33 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 29, 2017, 06:36:19 PM
Just about everyone BUT you, actually...

You who admittly left Christian are qualified to teach Christianity... no wonder you guys typically fuel the fake news cycle. You have no understanding of truth, only entitlement and agenda.. As only entitlement and agenda would qualify you to teach anything in the CHRISTIAN potion of this website.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:04:33 AM
You who admittly left Christian are qualified to teach Christianity... no wonder you guys typically fuel the fake news cycle. You have no understanding of truth, only entitlement and agenda.. As only entitlement and agenda would qualify you to teach anything in the CHRISTIAN potion of this website.

Dumbass, leaving Christianity does not mean I know nothing about Christianity. You are so painfully idiotic.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 08:14:18 PM
Sorry ... teaching is putting your little lamp on the lamp stand, to shed to light.  Not to shed some darkness ;-)

are you forgetting your miss repersentation of the word Holy Spirit and how it appears in the bible? are yu forgetting that it was my exegesis that not only corrected what you had to say but showed you intentionally mislead the members of this board??

How is that not sharing darkness oh great Sadducee?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 29, 2017, 08:21:32 PM
My rabbi is Rebbe Nachman of Bratislava ... a descendent of the Baal Shem Tov himself (Hasidic founder).  Now there was a real Yid.  Is your rabbi even a Yid?  Sorry, I don't give formal lectures ... I teach the Socratic way, one on one ... or one on a few.  Adults only.

NaNachs in Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk_-bevtqMs

If Jesus were around, he would be right in the middle of that ... he was a party animal ;-)

IDK we never discussed his alphabet soup/degrees. He was director of Zion's hope and co founder of the holy land experience.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Quote from: fencerider on June 30, 2017, 03:46:15 AM
drich said "why dont you just meet god on his terms?" Sorry mate but god has to prove that he exists first before he can demand any terms. god has to prove he exists before he can expect any faith

Are you going to teach us the right way to pray too? I can go on youtube and find a hundred videos of people claiming the right way to pray
Why would he do that for you?

Who are you?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:15:19 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:06:36 AM
Dumbass, leaving Christianity does not mean I know nothing about Christianity. You are so painfully idiotic.

Leaving Christianity means you never found God by your own admission.

Which disqualifies you fro teaching about finding God.

Maybe you can teach a course on how to fail in finding God where you can tell you sob story and how god stepped over you because you did things your way.. But again not what I am here for. I know why you failed I helped you identify that reason with in the first few exchanges we had.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:19:10 AM
Quote from: fencerider on June 30, 2017, 03:46:15 AM
Are you going to teach us the right way to pray too? I can go on youtube and find a hundred videos of people claiming the right way to pray

I can teach you what prayer is... According to luke 11 it is an open invitation to God to help you change your heart and mind to fit his will. That's it.

prayer is not a formal wishing ceremony most of you think it to be. That according to paul, wishing to God, asking God for stuff is petition. There is nothing wrong with petitioning God, however he has no obligation to answer your petitions, but on the other side will always answer prayer in the affirmative.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:15:19 AMLeaving Christianity means you never found God by your own admission.

Wrong, dumbass. You're doing exactly what you've been denying you've been doing since you came here. You're dismissing what I have to say on the mere basis that I am an ex-Christian. You cannot accept that someone could be a genuine follower of Jesus and fall away. In your mind, obviously any Christian who falls away was never a real Christian to begin with. That's circular logic, not that I'd expect you to even know what that means since it's basically what people like you thrive on.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on June 30, 2017, 11:41:37 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
are you forgetting your miss repersentation of the word Holy Spirit and how it appears in the bible? are yu forgetting that it was my exegesis that not only corrected what you had to say but showed you intentionally mislead the members of this board??

How is that not sharing darkness oh great Sadducee?
You have demonstrated only one trait--arrogant stupidity.  Your so called knowledge of the babble is simply your changing the text of that work to suit your needs.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: trdsf on June 30, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 27, 2017, 05:16:34 PM
Jeez, I wonder what kinds of divine STDs a God might have!?


:headscratch:

And all of a sudden, the exclamation "Holy fuck!" takes on a darker tone.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
I have awesome powers!  I give this guy two likes, and he turns into a raving megalomaniac?

"holy land experience" ... sorry, you can dress up as a Jew, but it doesn't mean your heart is circumcised.  You pretty much discredit yourself with that one phrase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Experience

Next thing you will claim you have been to the Creation Museum ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Museum
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 30, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
Wrong, dumbass. You're doing exactly what you've been denying you've been doing since you came here. You're dismissing what I have to say on the mere basis that I am an ex-Christian.
if you call yourself a christian. you do not have an understanding of the basics of Christianity. You have no say in it sport. Your ceremonies did not save you. Only Christ can save you, and as of this moment has not been decided yet. The bible always points to a future salvation. that moment of judgement has not come. the covenant or promise of the followers of Christ is "you will be saved." Never you have been saved.

At best you can claim to have been a follower of Christ.

THAT is why i dismiss you. You know so little about the bible and this religion you can't even give yourself a bible based title concerning your ex beliefs.

You were born into pop Christianity and that is all you know of God. yours is a pop tart faith compared to a wedding cake standard. yet you refuse to consider anything other than the idea that your efforts should have won over God if there was such a being.

Never mind God took the time Himself to describe the process which we was going to tear down the faith you built, because it was built foolishly. Then it happened, and furthermore I gave you a full description of what Jesus prophesied to happen to people like you... then to cement it all I kicked over and showed you how far your idea of Christianity came from the mark in scripture by showing/sharing what the bible offers.

QuoteYou cannot accept that someone could be a genuine follower of Jesus and fall away.
then why do I say some of you WHO HAVE FALLEN AWAY will be surprised to find themselves in Heaven???? i honestly believe a few of you would indeed make it. why??? because IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU. It is about Christ's judgement of you... Not a sin judgement as per the old covenant, but what Christ has done and the new covenant! (which I'm sure you know all about, due to your hard study in pop christian and reading the bible from cover to cover)

QuoteIn your mind, obviously any Christian who falls away was never a real Christian to begin with.
prodigal sons moron... more than one of you fall into this category.

Quote
That's circular logic, not that I'd expect you to even know what that means since it's basically what people like you thrive on.
informal fallacy that starts with a use of reason in which the premises depends on or is equivalent to the conclusion."this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this" a=b because b=a

Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 06:23:34 PM
Weekly quotes from the sermons of Pepe ...

Quote
ܝ ܐܡ ܢܘܛ ܐ ܦܪܘܕܝÜ"ܐܠ ܣܘܢ
ܝ ܐܡ ܐ ܦܪܘܕܝÜ"ܐܠ ܛܐܕܦܘܠܥ
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 01, 2017, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 30, 2017, 11:41:37 AM
You have demonstrated only one trait--arrogant stupidity.  Your so called knowledge of the babble is simply your changing the text of that work to suit your needs.

The word your looking for is reclaiming the text or giving the text back it's original meaning. nor that it no longer can be used to misrepresent God.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 01, 2017, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 30, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
I have awesome powers!  I give this guy two likes, and he turns into a raving megalomaniac?

"holy land experience" ... sorry, you can dress up as a Jew, but it doesn't mean your heart is circumcised.  You pretty much discredit yourself with that one phrase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Experience

Next thing you will claim you have been to the Creation Museum ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Museum

What the problem is?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Munch on July 01, 2017, 01:13:01 PM
You really do have a very cardboard way of addressing how you think people should act and feel. You clearly haven't had enough life experience to understand that people change their views over time based on how their lives change and the world around them. People grow, mature, ideas evolve, they don't stick to one concept alone, and something they find in their lives down the road can lead them down another path, its called growing up.

But you just want everyone to think the same rigid way you do, which is pretty terrifying, to force others how they should think and feel. But in the end, your be the only one who suffers, since you can't get what you want.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 01, 2017, 01:02:48 PM
The word your looking for is reclaiming the text or giving the text back it's original meaning. nor that it no longer can be used to misrepresent God.
How can we reclaim something that we don't know the origin of?  We don't know (with the exception of paul) who wrote the various writings of the bible.  We don't know what the original meaning or intent of any of the writings because we don't know how many filters the writings went through.  In fact, there isn't a 'the' bible.  There are many bibles--and it is impossible to tell which is the first. 

I guess I should be put into the 'stupid' group with you--why did I bother to reply?  You are just so fucking arrogant, stupid and prideful that a conversation is simply impossible.   
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Why would he do that for you?
Who are you?
simply put there is no obvious evidence for the existence of god. Gotsto make a little more noise for the dumbbunnies or he will never be found

I missed this the first time...
Drich vs Drich
"why don't you meet god on his terms?"
"god will do what ever needs to be done in your life to help establish and maintain your belief"
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 30, 2017, 01:31:05 PM
You know so little about the bible
says the guys who keeps posting...book and verse? book and verse? cause dumb ass doesn't actually read the babble.


QuoteNever mind God took the time Himself to describe the process

just like he did describing that the sky is water that you dismiss, that homosexuality is just as evil as getting a tattoo, that mixing your clothing is also an "abomination" as the two previous. And that women when they start to drip blood should leave the village for a week cause she is "unclean"....what a laughing stock your god is, what a complete moronic joke. And you worship this claptrap of ignorance? THIS is a god to you? What mop head. Three month old piss in a jelly jar has as much power as your god. What a mop head. I can guarantee you that as fervent as you pray, and as I do not, we will both have exactly the same chances of avoiding cancer. Not much of a god....
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 05:11:05 PM
Quote from: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
simply put there is no obvious evidence for the existence of god. Gotsto make a little more noise for the dumbbunnies or he will never be found

I missed this the first time...
Drich vs Drich
"why don't you meet god on his terms?"
"god will do what ever needs to be done in your life to help establish and maintain your belief"
I like that.  Seems like he is cut from the same wood as Trump--one came make the same sort of thing with Trump arguing against himself for quite a long time.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 03, 2017, 04:58:28 AM
Conversions are difficult.  They are mostly religious to atheist, but I do know that some disturbed people go the other way.  I have yet to read about anyone who goes from atheist to theist who's live is not worse as a result.  And given that most conversions are from theist to atheist, I understand why. 

How can one go from fact to non-fact easily?  It is much more stable to go from non-fact to fact.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 01, 2017, 01:13:01 PM
You really do have a very cardboard way of addressing how you think people should act and feel. You clearly haven't had enough life experience to understand that people change their views over time based on how their lives change and the world around them. People grow, mature, ideas evolve, they don't stick to one concept alone, and something they find in their lives down the road can lead them down another path, its called growing up.
what an alt left concept this is...

Here's the thing my good fellow... when people seek the truth and FIND IT there is no need for change. it is when people are seeking the ever allusive 'happiness' that changes o happen all the time. If you took time to read the bio I left I spent my youngerdays making changes peridoically till I found God, and 25 years later I am still here because I found the truth, and as a consenquence lso found joy in it all.

QuoteBut you just want everyone to think the same rigid way you do, which is pretty terrifying, to force others how they should think and feel.
what people think or feel is of absolutely no consequence to me, which is what I am currently being accused of because I run rough shot all over their feelings. when they object to wht I have to say.

Quote
But in the end, your be the only one who suffers, since you can't get what you want.
How so? If what I want is to Share the truth I found and in the end get to do so.... How is it I o not get what I want?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 01:39:52 PM
How can we reclaim something that we don't know the origin of?
"we as a people DO indeed know the orgins of Scripture. The propagnda you listen to wants to make this less clear.

I made mention to this state before but there are over 20K manuscripts concerning the bible most of which a grammatical and spelling errors away from each other. This out performs any other literary work of that time frame by a factor of 10,000 to 1. that one being 20 or so copies of the Eliad. to say we don't know the orgins of the bible is to say 10,000 more strongly we call into question anything that was written for the next 1000 or so years. as nothing even comes close.. even after the advet of the priting press the bible was the single most printed/copy book for several hundred years after that! Nothing else comes close.

QuoteWe don't know (with the exception of paul) who wrote the various writings of the bible.
What a foolish thing to say. "we don't know who wrote the treasure map... out side of jack sparrow... so we won't follow it. How about ask anyone about the treasure of jack sparrow and then see if anyone ws able to cash in on it to determine if it is a good map or not. again the measure here is truth. Does the bible lead us to the God described in it's pages? YES!!! map/bible Good!!!

What else matters?

QuoteWe don't know what the original meaning or intent of any of the writings because we don't know how many filters the writings went through.
Then it is up to God to change it or simly forgive us our errors for following the only copies he left for us. (and he has made recent changes via dead sea scrolls)

QuoteIn fact, there isn't a 'the' bible.
no actually there is..

QuoteThere are many bibles--
again no. there are many translations.

Quoteand it is impossible to tell which is the first. 
no one doubts which is first. the first codex/compilation was the Sinaiticus. Which was a hand written copy of the OT. But oldest or first does not mean oldest. since this first codex many have been found several hundred years older.. and if I remember correctly there is a 99.7% accuracy between them. barring grammatical differences and spelling. All that you know scripturaly is at best propaganda.

Quote
I guess I should be put into the 'stupid' group with you--why did I bother to reply?
what is stupid with answering with fact? I gave you facts when you gave me anti bible propaganda. what is stupid in asking does the bible take you were you want to Go? what is stupid in using the bible as a simple tool to reach out to God? rather than making it a religious icon? The bible never climed to be an icon nor anything else outside of directions back to God.

Quote
You are just so fucking arrogant, stupid and prideful that a conversation is simply impossible.
Sorry you feel that way.. What way? like I dominate the conversation, that you points are quickly dismissed, that I am not really even talking to you, but talking past you.. to your "kind."

Sum it up? now watch this sport:

Quote from: IThe word your looking for is reclaiming the text or giving the text back it's original meaning. nor that it no longer can be used to misrepresent God.

All I was saying is what I did was give the text back it's intended purpose. I did so by putting it back into context and or gave the Koine or greek exegesis of the passage.


Quote from: you
How can we reclaim something that we don't know the origin of?  We don't know (with the exception of paul) who wrote the various writings of the bible.  We don't know what the original meaning or intent of any of the writings because we don't know how many filters the writings went through.  In fact, there isn't a 'the' bible.  There are many bibles--and it is impossible to tell which is the first. [\quote]
Talk past people much? You may believe this tripe but NONE of this is true. is it were why not cite something??? You start out comming at me with an easily dispelled lie, So then how should I respond when you issue a catch all general dismissal of the whole bible??? with out reference 1? it's like you talking past me to other people who already side with this tripe

Quote
I guess I should be put into the 'stupid' group with you--why did I bother to reply?  You are just so fucking arrogant, stupid and prideful that a conversation is simply impossible.   
To the guy who goes line by line sifting questions and correcting misinforming facts each and every time you post them... Again sound to me you are trying to speak to my "type" and having brought yourself around to evaluating what it is I am actually doing.

I say all of that to say that I do indeed make a carefully weighed and measure response to each of you. I know you can't see it, but I want you to feel how you make other feel when they come to this website and speak to you.. because in that way when you take me down and criticize me, you are actually prescribing out your own meds.

It treat each post like a brand new one. I hold no grudge nor do i remember past wrongs. If you want to start fresh then just start frest, you don't even need to respond to any of this.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 01:58:11 PM
Quote from: fencerider on July 01, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
simply put there is no obvious evidence for the existence of god. Gotsto make a little more noise for the dumbbunnies or he will never be found

I missed this the first time...
Drich vs Drich
"why don't you meet god on his terms?"
"god will do what ever needs to be done in your life to help establish and maintain your belief"

mis quote sport.
fixed it for ya ;)
If you meet God on His terms, He will do whatever it takes to establish and maintain a relationship with you.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 01, 2017, 03:17:45 PM
says the guys who keeps posting...book and verse? book and verse? cause dumb ass doesn't actually read the babble.
Actually my request for BVC has silenced anyone who does not or can't comply to rule 11 of this forum. That is all I am looking to do.. is to thin the heard.. I want those who claim the bible says something to simply proof that claim by providing bcv. 9 times out of 10 the poser making the bible claim can't find or simply did not know the bible doesn't actually say what they think it does... So for the totally "biblicaly illiterate scholar" my BCV challenge is busy work while the adults hammer things out.

Quotejust like he did describing that the sky is water that you dismiss,
To which I answered and you were silenced completely.
Now you run around taking a victory lap?!?!

Quotethat homosexuality is just as evil as getting a tattoo,
the bible doesn't say that either. As Homosexuality is a moral sin and tattoos were societal sin/law of Moses.


Quotethat mixing your clothing is also an "abomination" as the two previous. And that women when they start to drip blood should leave the village for a week cause she is "unclean"....what a laughing stock your god is, what a complete moronic joke. And you worship this claptrap of ignorance?
OMG... you realy don't know any better do you? even after I show you all the truth you have default into a base for of ignorance so you can make the same old joke over and over.. You know Elective ignorance is not innocent, it's not a help/he don't know any better.. idk i could go on and call you names but I don't think it would do any good.. use to be name calling was a way to shame a person away from their elective ignorance, but I think you seem to be proud of what you do want to know. it gives you strength and confidence to stand up to people like me and simply repeat your self over and over and over and over and over again.. Or didn't you think I'd (and everyone else noticed already?) Hey if that's you best then have it.. maybe tell me again how you bested me with your day two question.. I seem to like remembering that one a little differently.

Quote
THIS is a god to you? What mop head. Three month old piss in a jelly jar has as much power as your god. What a mop head. I can guarantee you that as fervent as you pray, and as I do not, we will both have exactly the same chances of avoiding cancer. Not much of a god....
Define Christian and OT jew for me sport, then classify those laws into the proper religion for me if you are up to a challenge.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 02:16:54 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 01, 2017, 05:11:05 PM
I like that.  Seems like he is cut from the same wood as Trump--one came make the same sort of thing with Trump arguing against himself for quite a long time.
Wow..

didn't even bother to check to see if the quote was right, how brain washed are you?

Here's a tip to sometimes tell when people are intentionally misquoting others.

When people put
Quotequote bars
in place it has to be in it's original form/un cut or eddited.

When people just use "quotation marks" they can claim to have just remembered things differently.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 03, 2017, 04:58:28 AM
Conversions are difficult.  They are mostly religious to atheist, but I do know that some disturbed people go the other way.  I have yet to read about anyone who goes from atheist to theist who's live is not worse as a result.  And given that most conversions are from theist to atheist, I understand why. 

How can one go from fact to non-fact easily?  It is much more stable to go from non-fact to fact.

What makes you assume God does not provide facts? Or are you just taking that on faith because other atheists have reported it so
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2017, 04:02:21 PM
Drich ... you remind me of Hamlet ...

"O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: fencerider on July 05, 2017, 10:43:18 PM
I was reading what you said when I posted. not a misquote

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 11:02:08 AM
He wants nothing to do with you till you can mster up enough humility to meet Him where He said Meet Him?

Think about it. If trump invites you to the white house for a state dinner and tells you it is black tie, and you show up looking like you do now, do you think he will do a song and dance for you so that you can attend his event? Then why would God? You should be honored at the invite. It's a big deal.. we were invited to one of the inaugural dinners/ball and despite what you think of the man personally it is a big deal to simply be on the list. we didn't go and I did not expect trump to show up begging me to go to the next thing he had. So then why should the alpha and omega be made to do a jig for you? Again who are you exactly? why can't you meet God on His terms?

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 28, 2017, 11:28:05 AM
Look at doubting Thomas in the upper room, and the Saul/paul of tarsus. Jesus does not condemn these men for needing proof, we must simply give ourselves over to seeking the truth no matter where it leads us. I am NOTHING special and look what has been done for me... (ill posts a few more signs and wonders type stuff in the comming days)

God will do what ever you need done specific to your life to help you establish and maintain your belief.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 04:11:56 AM
"why can't you meet God on His terms?"

Well, strictly in a logical sense, it would be impossible for mere mortals to comprehend a true deity.  But that assumes there is one, and I do not.  Indeed, I see a profound lack of evidence for one.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2017, 07:18:48 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 04:11:56 AM
"why can't you meet God on His terms?"

Well, strictly in a logical sense, it would be impossible for mere mortals to comprehend a true deity.  But that assumes there is one, and I do not.  Indeed, I see a profound lack of evidence for one.

Your statement self contradicts ... a completely transcendent being would of course be invisible to our senses and minds ... that is what transcendent means.  This is why I accuse the Greeks of ruining theology ... the G-d of Genesis is clearly not very transcendent.  That G-d can't even transcend a bad attitude, and reacts badly when having a bad day.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:14:27 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 04:11:56 AM
"why can't you meet God on His terms?"

Well, strictly in a logical sense, it would be impossible for mere mortals to comprehend a true deity.  But that assumes there is one, and I do not.  Indeed, I see a profound lack of evidence for one.

Why would you assume that the deity is not smart enough to simply speak to you on your level of understanding?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:15:34 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 05, 2017, 04:02:21 PM
Drich ... you remind me of Hamlet ...

"O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."

Don't be Jelly
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: fencerider on July 05, 2017, 10:43:18 PM
I was reading what you said when I posted. not a misquote

Where was Thomas when Jesus appeared and allowed Him to touch his wounds? "In the upper room." Why is that important? Because the disciples were being hunted in Jerusalem and they pharisees looked to have them killed as co-conspirators as well. But Jesus told them to not leave and meet him in this 'upper room' which was kinda in the middle of the 'danger zone.'

So in essence Thomas was doing exactly what Jesus told Him to do When Christ arrived He did whatever it took to eastablish and maintain the belief of Thomas till He was martyred for those beliefs.

That Sport is why I said you mis quoted me. You took my quote out of it's context to create a straw man you then felt comfortable to attack... Look how low you must go to discredit what I said... look how you abandoned your integrity.

The first time around you did not use the quote tags as you knew what you had to do to compile your straw man and look how this time you used the quote tags to try and bring legitimacy back to your post.

Again...

Salvation is easy, you can goto God as you are.

However if you wish reward in Heaven or a relationship with God now where you can ask and He will respond... You must meet God on His terms.

Do you get that both going to God as you are and seeking God on His terms are both required? You go to God as you are to be "Saved." You seek God on His terms to Serve and to be rewarded.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
I love the desperation that is shown when theists post multiple times trying convince me by quantity over quality of arguments...
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
He converted from a human being into a hallow caricature of a human being; and he believes he is better and now far seeing.  What a dolt.  Not waste any more on this babbling idiot.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
He converted from a human being into a hallow caricature of a human being; and he believes he is better and now far seeing.  What a dolt.  Not waste any more on this babbling idiot.

Sort of like Gollum?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 12:15:18 PM
Sort of like Gollum?
Not as nice as Gollum--or smart.  At least Gollum was conflicted about his current state of affairs.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 01:44:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Not as nice as Gollum--or smart.  At least Gollum was conflicted about his current state of affairs.

LOL!  Just thought of how Gollum was connected to Sauron and how the comparison would appear to a theist.  No harm meant.  I don't consider them Satanists.  Equally unreal...
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Munch on July 06, 2017, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Not as nice as Gollum--or smart.  At least Gollum was conflicted about his current state of affairs.

Also, gollum was transformed into a degenerative creature by his obsession over a magical object in a world where magic actually existed, unlike the horseshit being touted here by a guy using the same ramblings a preacher uses to manipulate the masses into conversion.

The reason why guys like this ramble on so much is if they stop drilling their cult mindset into the heads of simple folk, it might give them pause for thought that maybe what their saying is horseshit. That's also why atheism has become so much stronger in the modern day unlike any other point in history, because we have information, examples, stories and accounts showing what religion is, instead of it just coming from a few sources of info like newspapers or controlled institutions of education
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 06, 2017, 03:27:47 PM
Also, gollum was transformed into a degenerative creature by his obsession over a magical object in a world where magic actually existed, unlike the horseshit being touted here by a guy using the same ramblings a preacher uses to manipulate the masses into conversion.

The reason why guys like this ramble on so much is if they stop drilling their cult mindset into the heads of simple folk, it might give them pause for thought that maybe what their saying is horseshit. That's also why atheism has become so much stronger in the modern day unlike any other point in history, because we have information, examples, stories and accounts showing what religion is, instead of it just coming from a few sources of info like newspapers or controlled institutions of education
Good point, Munch.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
I love the desperation that is shown when theists post multiple times trying convince me by quantity over quality of arguments...

And I like it when people tell me I am on their ignore list yet they directly answer my posts.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 06, 2017, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
He converted from a human being into a hallow caricature of a human being; and he believes he is better and now far seeing.  What a dolt.  Not waste any more on this babbling idiot.
So... Anyone who transcends your old level of Christianity is to be not believed and dismissed?

WTF?!?!? Jelous much you big cry baby? boo hoo I prayed to my God and found nothing, this guy says the same prayer and God answers Him... Must be he's lying... Never mind the bible/Jesus said this very thing could happen if God saw me as a fool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5bBDRpzPM

Wait a tick... What if... What if... You are the fool Jesus spoke of? IF you could get over your wounded pride then you have not only a promise of God found in luke 11 but direction from Christ Himself about where to go next.

Or you can keep pretending none of this is real and your effort are the only result despite what other may say.

Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on July 06, 2017, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 06, 2017, 07:18:48 AM
Your statement self contradicts ... a completely transcendent being would of course be invisible to our senses and minds ... that is what transcendent means.  This is why I accuse the Greeks of ruining theology ... the G-d of Genesis is clearly not very transcendent.  That G-d can't even transcend a bad attitude, and reacts badly when having a bad day.
Yeah, and His days last a thousand years!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 06, 2017, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 05, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
Actually my request for BVC has silenced

No, it proves time and time again, you don't know the babble and you just post spoon fed crap from your pastor. The babble is made up crap and you flaunt it like it is strawberries and cream instead of a horrendous book of a make believe deity that is far crueler than any human has ever been...but that gets your willy hard I guess. Run along now.....someone I am sure is looking for you.

Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 09:48:16 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 06, 2017, 03:27:47 PM
Also, gollum was transformed into a degenerative creature by his obsession over a magical object in a world where magic actually existed, unlike the horseshit being touted here by a guy using the same ramblings a preacher uses to manipulate the masses into conversion.

The reason why guys like this ramble on so much is if they stop drilling their cult mindset into the heads of simple folk, it might give them pause for thought that maybe what their saying is horseshit. That's also why atheism has become so much stronger in the modern day unlike any other point in history, because we have information, examples, stories and accounts showing what religion is, instead of it just coming from a few sources of info like newspapers or controlled institutions of education

Your point that magic existed "for real" to the characters in the LOTR story is a good point.  It requires not only our suspension of disbelief, but also the characters acceptance of it as real.  Nice!
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: sdelsolray on July 06, 2017, 10:59:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 06, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Not as nice as Gollum--or smart.  At least Gollum was conflicted about his current state of affairs.

Gollum/Smeagol experienced periodic and intense cognitive dissonance ("CD").  CD arises in a healthy mind and often helps resolve the internal contradictions by bringing them to a conscious level so that the brain's rational processes can process them.

Poster Dritch1050 has exhibited no cognitive dissonance in his posts on this forum.  Likely, his earlier deep religious indoctrination has atrophied his brain's ability to generate cognitive dissonance of which he can perceive.

Short version:  Dritch1050's brain is miswired.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 05:38:58 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 06, 2017, 09:48:16 PM
Your point that magic existed "for real" to the characters in the LOTR story is a good point.  It requires not only our suspension of disbelief, but also the characters acceptance of it as real.  Nice!

It took you 70 years to get this?  This long to achieve reading comprehension of fiction?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 07, 2017, 09:07:46 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 06, 2017, 06:13:41 PM
No, it proves time and time again, you don't know the babble and you just post spoon fed crap from your pastor.
what it prooves is you do not obey the rules of this web site when quoting written material
Quote
The babble is made up crap and you flaunt it like it is strawberries and cream instead of a horrendous book of a make believe deity that is far crueler than any human has ever been...
To evil men and I appaude Him for it!

Quote
but that gets your willy hard I guess. Run along now.....someone I am sure is looking for you.
being brought up as a victim has cost you your discernment. in your attempt to persecute God and his followers you condemn the very things your society was built on, and I have yet to hear any one of you renounce any of the luxuries the pain and suffering of other has afforded you! but it all ok (being a hypocrite) just so long as you hate someone else for it.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 02:10:27 PM
Weekly quotes from the sermons of Pepe ...

Quote
ܣܥܥ ܣܐܠܠܝ ܣܥܠܠ ܣܥܐܫܥܠܠܣ ܐܛ ܬܥ ܣܥܐܫܘܪܥ
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Blackleaf on July 07, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 02:10:27 PM
Weekly quotes from the sermons of Pepe ...

That's interesting. The mouse knows to start from the right side and go left when selecting Hebrew text. I didn't know it was smart enough to take that kind of thing into consideration. At least I managed to learn one thing from this stupid thread.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on July 07, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
That's interesting. The mouse knows to start from the right side and go left when selecting Hebrew text. I didn't know it was smart enough to take that kind of thing into consideration. At least I managed to learn one thing from this stupid thread.

Haha ... well, like the hidden hand of Adam Smith ... text formatting is there, even if you can't directly see it.  If you paste in right-justified text and post it, the justification is preserved.  And no, Kekistani isn't Hebrew at all.  Praise Kek!  My Kekistani posts aren't random, but nobody has the "ganas" to want to figure it out ... or doesn't have the "nous" to do so if they try to.  There are probably NSA agents feverishly trying to decipher it, worried that it might reveal CIA mini-transceivers hidden in the dental work of the Senate ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 08, 2017, 08:13:02 AM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 07, 2017, 09:07:46 AM
  in your attempt to persecute God and his followers you condemn the very things your society was built on....

There are quite a few economists, and perhaps some of us who are not, who would suggest that one of the quickest ways to extravagant wealth is to not have to pay for the labor force to do all the work. Not just slavery, but indentured slavery....then we progressed into many decades of importing cheap laborers (and vast discrimination) from various ethnicities not the last of being the Chinese, who were also murdered and "re-located"...oh and should we start with the natives?

Yeah...."oh christians are what made this country great"....looks like you know as much about American history as you do your own babble.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 02:12:19 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 06, 2017, 06:13:41 PM
No, it proves time and time again, you don't know the babble and you just post spoon fed crap from your pastor. The babble is made up crap and you flaunt it like it is strawberries and cream instead of a horrendous book of a make believe deity that is far crueler than any human has ever been...but that gets your willy hard I guess. Run along now.....someone I am sure is looking for you.

Actually it did silence someone.. bit of a dog with a bone if you will... (My request for BCV) silence you! I mean I did give a full explanation of the separation of waters as per your requesting after our bcv dance.

none of which I can promise you has ever been espoused from a pulpit, and it left you silent for a while. then the next time I asked for BCV you barked up again seeming having forgotten the last teeth kicking I just gave you.

How about putting some truth in your writing and go line by line and give me a scientific explanation as to how/why what I said about the separation of waters would not have worked the way I explained it... Rather than just spouting out dated cliché' that are true about most first year Christians who come to sights like this. Meaning show me you have the mental capacity to play on this level before challenging to another 'dual' you will just run from and then come back in a week or two and do it all over again.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 02:18:09 PM
Quote from: sdelsolray on July 06, 2017, 10:59:32 PM
Gollum/Smeagol experienced periodic and intense cognitive dissonance ("CD").  CD arises in a healthy mind and often helps resolve the internal contradictions by bringing them to a conscious level so that the brain's rational processes can process them.

Poster Dritch1050 has exhibited no cognitive dissonance in his posts on this forum.  Likely, his earlier deep religious indoctrination has atrophied his brain's ability to generate cognitive dissonance of which he can perceive.

Short version:  Dritch1050's brain is miswired.

Bwahahaha
someone misused a fancy word to show how dumb I'm supposed to be!!!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cognitive+dissonance

Maybe talking so good is not thing for you.. maybe stay with talking only: "I am Groot" for now.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 02:20:26 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 08, 2017, 08:13:02 AM
There are quite a few economists, and perhaps some of us who are not, who would suggest that one of the quickest ways to extravagant wealth is to not have to pay for the labor force to do all the work. Not just slavery, but indentured slavery....then we progressed into many decades of importing cheap laborers (and vast discrimination) from various ethnicities not the last of being the Chinese, who were also murdered and "re-located"...oh and should we start with the natives?

Yeah...."oh christians are what made this country great"....looks like you know as much about American history as you do your own babble.

I think you and I share a lot of common points on slavery
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 09, 2017, 10:01:16 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 09, 2017, 02:20:26 PM
I think you and I share a lot of common points on slavery

well...yer a god fearing thumper...and god loves peeps having slaves...so I kinda doubt we agree on slavery.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 11, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
Drich:  "in your attempt to persecute God and his followers"

You are assuming there are both a god AND followers.  There can be one without the other both ways.  There could be a god without any followers and there could be followers without a god to follow.  There can be followers without a basis...  And IF there is a god (and I suggest the possibility with some hesitation), it would most certainly be so far beyond comprehension as to make any theism a futile exercise.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 11, 2017, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 11, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
Drich:  "in your attempt to persecute God and his followers"

You are assuming there are both a god AND followers.  There can be one without the other both ways.  There could be a god without any followers and there could be followers without a god to follow.  There can be followers without a basis...  And IF there is a god (and I suggest the possibility with some hesitation), it would most certainly be so far beyond comprehension as to make any theism a futile exercise.

wow are you new at this whole atheism thing?

Just look at what some of your peers have posted about a God they themselves like you do not believe in... Now tell me how can their be no belief in said God when you and your peers show distain and hate for Him?

For example I harbor no ill will towards the worshipers of FSM because I know he does not exist, but if the followers of FSM had it much better than I did I could learn to resent them, and  if they were smug assholes I could learn to hate them, not if the took all of what I hated and attributed to their FSM I would hate that too. Then in somecases break out into a rage fit against those in whom I hate and then taunt them and their God to save them.

So I ask again are you new to atheism? because it seems most of your peers are pretty darn close to lashing out at those in whom they hate.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 11, 2017, 07:42:20 PM
Mankind has invented thousands of gods ,including yours. There is the possibility of a creator. But it certainly is not the pitiful one you preach, incompetent, evil, violent, and mostly idiotic. But perhaps there is a real creator out there, but it is not interested in us. Our place in the universe kinda proves that to rational minds.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: fencerider on July 11, 2017, 11:50:04 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 11, 2017, 07:42:20 PM
Mankind has invented thousands of gods ,including yours. There is the possibility of a creator. But it certainly is not the pitiful one you preach, incompetent, evil, violent, and mostly idiotic. But perhaps there is a real creator out there, but it is not interested in us. Our place in the universe kinda proves that to rational minds.
yup. Either god isn't real or god don't give a rat's ass about me. Unless something changes in the way of evidence I'd just be wastin my time. Did enough of that already
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 12, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: aitm on July 11, 2017, 07:42:20 PM
Mankind has invented thousands of gods ,including yours. There is the possibility of a creator. But it certainly is not the pitiful one you preach, incompetent, evil, violent, and mostly idiotic. But perhaps there is a real creator out there, but it is not interested in us. Our place in the universe kinda proves that to rational minds.
Do you not hear yourself???

Man has made thousands of Gods...

There might be a creator, but not your version he must be my version because... because why?

What must God be in your image? why can't God be the oppsite of you? why must you be his precious?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on July 12, 2017, 03:44:02 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zYV4qdtsB7o/TAXNI0uMikI/AAAAAAAAATc/_qq-PTEXTz0/s1600/confusion.jpg)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: aitm on July 12, 2017, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 12, 2017, 03:06:45 PM

What must God be in your image? why can't God be the oppsite of you? why must you be his precious?

This is the story of the religious self-righteous. They think THEY alone have the correct god. Your arrogance suggested to you that I somehow thought I had a god superior to yours, whereas  I merely mentioned that humanity has created all the gods. You took it upon yourself to ingrate your arrogance  into simple reality. There are no gods....neither yours.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 13, 2017, 09:12:34 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 12, 2017, 09:10:07 PM
This is the story of the religious self-righteous.
Isn't that what I just said when I pointed out your identification of God must look like you (your words) That God could be the asshole I worship.. I simply asked why not?

QuoteThey think THEY alone have the correct god.
now look on the other side of the coin. How is that any different than proclaiming the opposite? In that God can't exist unless he meets you approval/parameters?

Quote
Your arrogance suggested to you that I somehow thought I had a god superior to yours, whereas  I merely mentioned that humanity has created all the gods. You took it upon yourself to ingrate your arrogance  into simple reality. There are no gods....neither yours.
You are so comfortable with lying to make a point you would even contradict yourself??? for what purpose? is it your hope I won't hold you to what you said?

The post I originally answered to had 4 sentences 1"man created all Gods." 2
QuoteThere is the possibility of a creator.
3
QuoteBut it certainly is not the pitiful one you preach, incompetent, evil, violent, and mostly idiotic.
3
QuoteBut perhaps there is a real creator out there, but it is not interested in us. 4Our place in the universe kinda proves that to rational minds.

Now compare that to the shite' and spin you just did. You just claim I made u the fact that you said there was a possiblity of God just not my God, but one that looked like you.

So lets look at the sentence numbers and see what they mean. Sentence 2 There is a possible of a creator (period) not a question but a statement There is a creator next I sumized "but not my creator" which sentence 3 covers most perfectly. Then I said you claim your God must look like you, now read sentence 4... Your God appeals to you..

So tell me line by line Like I just did for you how it is I am making up the idea that you think you had a god superior to mine. Because that is exactly what you think you just cant admit it as you don't like being called a hypocrite.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 04:10:11 AM
All deities mankind has ever created are just that.  Creations in the minds of mankind.  None exist as imagined, and none are like to exist in any human imaginings.  The desire of mankind to have a Great-Daddy-In-The-Sky watchijng and judging us will always be an anti-human fear to the weak of mind and those fearful of life.  And a way to control others by those more cynical than rational thinkers.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: trdsf on July 14, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Of course, the funny thing about conversion stories is that they're absolutely worthless as evidence of anything other than the storyteller's state of mind at the time of the conversion.  Otherwise, if I told you how I converted to Wicca in 1984 you'd all be dancing naked around a bonfire tonight on the strength of my testimony.

I shan't rule out the possibility that some of you may be doing that anyway for entirely secular reasons.  :D
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 01:13:42 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 14, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Of course, the funny thing about conversion stories is that they're absolutely worthless as evidence of anything other than the storyteller's state of mind at the time of the conversion.  Otherwise, if I told you how I converted to Wicca in 1984 you'd all be dancing naked around a bonfire tonight on the strength of my testimony.

I shan't rule out the possibility that some of you may be doing that anyway for entirely secular reasons.  :D

Oh, sorry, I was dancing around with the cats wearing only my fur...  Ahem...

Yes, of course anecdotal evidence is never very convincing to a rational mind.  I could be the last atheist on Earth (and indeed I once thought I was the only one - but that's another story) and still be an atheist.  Certainty is never proof, but lacking a convincing argument, I would stay one.  I came by it on my own, I'll die with it on my own.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: trdsf on July 14, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Of course, the funny thing about conversion stories is that they're absolutely worthless as evidence of anything other than the storyteller's state of mind at the time of the conversion.  Otherwise, if I told you how I converted to Wicca in 1984 you'd all be dancing naked around a bonfire tonight on the strength of my testimony.

I shan't rule out the possibility that some of you may be doing that anyway for entirely secular reasons.  :D

Not when the same offer that was made to me is made to you by the same God. If you like me wants proof of God. then follow what God would have us do to receive Him. What better proof of God is there than God?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Colanth on July 17, 2017, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 17, 2017, 08:23:21 AM
Not when the same offer that was made to me is made to you by the same God.
He must have missed your memo about that, because he's never contacted me, and at 75, I'd think he'd have had enough time.

QuoteIf you like me wants proof of God. then follow what God would have us do to receive Him. What better proof of God is there than God?
None at all - so produce him or go somewhere I won't mention and you wouldn't like.  (I mean produce as in objective evidence that he objectively exists.  We already know that he subjectively exists in your dysfunctional mind.)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
A flaming message in the sky would be were interesting.  And even then, I would want to investigate how it occurred.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: trdsf on July 18, 2017, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
A flaming message in the sky would be were interesting.  And even then, I would want to investigate how it occurred.
Funny thing is, if the message didn't fit in with theists' existing beliefs, they'd reject it out of hand even if there were no rational, physical explanation for the message's existence.

Besides, I'd much rather see giant fingers coming down from the clouds pointing at all the hypocrites of whatever religion, with a big booming voice saying "ENOUGH!"  Oh, but the looks on Pat Robertson's and Mike Pence's faces (et al.) would be precious.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 12:31:48 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 18, 2017, 12:28:31 PM
Funny thing is, if the message didn't fit in with theists' existing beliefs, they'd reject it out of hand even if there were no rational, physical explanation for the message's existence.

Besides, I'd much rather see giant fingers coming down from the clouds pointing at all the hypocrites of whatever religion, with a big booming voice saying "ENOUGH!"  Oh, but the looks on Pat Robertson's and Mike Pence's faces (et al.) would be precious.

Correct ... if there were a real Jesus, and Jesus came back, the Christians would be first in line to kill him.  Then the Muslims (What you you mean, we don't get 72 perpetual virgins!).
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:26:28 PM
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:26:28 PM
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.

I can tell your zodiacal sign is "crab" ... amirate? ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 07:03:09 PM
Uh...what?
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 07:03:09 PM
Uh...what?

You were picking on the stars.  Go to Hollywood and kiss their sidewalk ;-)
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 07:15:37 PM
Been there done that - still can't grow corn.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2017, 12:49:24 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:26:28 PM
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.
I think the development of agriculture and the end of nomadic hunting/gathering more likely caused the invention of a formalized priesthood and organized religion; over time the local leaders needed ways to control growing populations that were no longer socially linked by extended kinship.  I'm sure wandering bands had their gods and spirits, and 'wise men/women' to interpret the signs for them.

Once they settled down into a stationary lifestyle, that's when the serious need for mind control appeared, and what better way to do it than by getting people to believe there's some powerful invisible thing watching them all the time?  The priesthood then develops as the secret police of that region's pantheon, and are given a share of temporal power by the political leaders -- doubtlessly proclaimed as 'divinely chosen' by the priesthood so that opposition to a ruler becomes blasphemy and subject not only to physical punishment but the threat of punishment in an afterlife -- for keeping the populace in line for them.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 20, 2017, 12:51:45 PM
nice plausible story, except the documented 'nomads' carried their temple/tent and priests with them.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2017, 12:56:16 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2017, 12:49:24 PM
I think the development of agriculture and the end of nomadic hunting/gathering more likely caused the invention of a formalized priesthood and organized religion; over time the local leaders needed ways to control growing populations that were no longer socially linked by extended kinship.  I'm sure wandering bands had their gods and spirits, and 'wise men/women' to interpret the signs for them.

Once they settled down into a stationary lifestyle, that's when the serious need for mind control appeared, and what better way to do it than by getting people to believe there's some powerful invisible thing watching them all the time?  The priesthood then develops as the secret police of that region's pantheon, and are given a share of temporal power by the political leaders -- doubtlessly proclaimed as 'divinely chosen' by the priesthood so that opposition to a ruler becomes blasphemy and subject not only to physical punishment but the threat of punishment in an afterlife -- for keeping the populace in line for them.

Correct ... depending on the timeline.  For Jews, this happened with the Ezra Reform circa 500 BCE.  The Persian Emperor promoted this with multiple ethnic minorities in his Empire.  For Jews, the Greeks replaced the Persians and the Romans replaced the Greeks.  No serious freedom for the next 2500 years.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 02:56:49 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:26:28 PM
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.

I would disagree to the extent that deities were probably created pre-agriculture as sky gods and earthquake gods etc. 
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Drich0150 on July 22, 2017, 09:07:22 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 02:56:49 AM
I would disagree to the extent that deities were probably created pre-agriculture as sky gods and earthquake gods etc.

I would disagree because the existence of God predates man. Meaning God would be pre hunter gatherer as well.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Colanth on July 22, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Drich0150 on July 22, 2017, 09:07:22 AM
I would disagree because the existence of God predates man. Meaning God would be pre hunter gatherer as well.
Another of your so-called "proofs"?

Göbekli Tepe predates agriculture (it's from about 9.500 BCE), and it was obviously a religious site.

Shanidar Cave predates even that (58,000 BCE) and shows signs of mortuary ritual (gifts to the gods).

But your god dates to after 33 CE (or are you claiming that you worship the Hebrew god?)  No god in the line of succession had a "begotten" son before some time after the so-called resurrection.  (Even Christianity itself, as we know it now, didn't exist prior to that.  How could "Jesus died for your sins" be used as the basis of a religion while he hadn't died yet?)  Your statement that his existence predates man?  Objective evidence, please.  Otherwise you're just another god-botherer who thinks that the Bible is an accurate historical account.
Title: Re: My conversion
Post by: Cavebear on July 22, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: Colanth on July 22, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
Another of your so-called "proofs"?

Göbekli Tepe predates agriculture (it's from about 9.500 BCE), and it was obviously a religious site.

Shanidar Cave predates even that (58,000 BCE) and shows signs of mortuary ritual (gifts to the gods).

But your god dates to after 33 CE (or are you claiming that you worship the Hebrew god?)  No god in the line of succession had a "begotten" son before some time after the so-called resurrection.  (Even Christianity itself, as we know it now, didn't exist prior to that.  How could "Jesus died for your sins" be used as the basis of a religion while he hadn't died yet?)  Your statement that his existence predates man?  Objective evidence, please.  Otherwise you're just another god-botherer who thinks that the Bible is an accurate historical account.

Not to be too light-hearted here, but I have to wonder what contemplated the existence of Christian deity before monotheism existed?  Giraffes?  Gorillas?  Neandethals?