1st he wants the EPA to die now he cuts USA from the Paris Climate Agreement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/trump-paris-climate-agreement.html?_r=0
QuoteWASHINGTON â€" President Trump announced Thursday that he will withdraw the United States from participation in the Paris climate accord, weakening global efforts to combat climate change and siding with conservatives who argued that the landmark 2015 agreement was harming the economy.
But he will stick to the withdrawal process laid out in the Paris agreement, which President Barack Obama joined and most of the world has already ratified. That could take nearly four years to complete, meaning a final decision would be up to the American voters in the next presidential election.
Still, Mr. Trump’s decision is a remarkable rebuke to fellow heads-of-state, climate activists, corporate executives and members of the president’s own staff, all of whom failed this week to change Mr. Trump’s mind with an intense, last-minute lobbying blitz.
It makes good on a campaign promise to “cancel†an agreement he repeatedly mocked and derided at rallies, saying it would kill American jobs. As president, he has moved rapidly to reverse Obama-era policies designed to allow the United States to meet its pollution-reduction targets as set under the agreement.
“In order to fulfill my solemn duty to protect America and its citizens, the United States will withdraw from the Paris climate accord but begin negotiations to re-enter either the Paris accord or an entirely new transaction on terms that are fair to the United States,†the president said. “We are getting out. But we will start to negotiate, and we will see if we can make a deal that’s fair. And if we can, that’s great.â€
Quote“In order to fulfill my solemn duty to protect America and its citizens, the United States will withdraw from the Paris climate accord but begin negotiations to re-enter either the Paris accord or an entirely new transaction on terms that are fair to the United States,†the president said.
Why would he do that - negotiate to re-enter the accord or a new one - if climate change is a Chinese hoax anyway?
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 01, 2017, 06:06:41 PM
Why would he do that - negotiate to re-enter the accord or a new one - if climate change is a Chinese hoax anyway?
Yes, the Chinese have technology that will allow them to create clean industry ... cough, cough. The point of that accord, was to send lots of US tax payer money to the Europeans ... after Israel and Egypt take what they want first. Creative accounting by Bilderbergers, all the way down. If you don't like CO2 or CO ... stop heating your home and driving your car. If you want others to stop heating their homes or driving their cars ... molon labe!
Environmentalism is so ... 1970. I was there, cleaning up the trash around our Jr HS ... on the first Earth Day.
It's a symbolic act meant to appease coal miners. If Trump thinks global warming is a hoax, he's an idiot. If he thinks pulling out of the accord is going to help turn the economy around, he's an idiot. As far as economic growth, the future lies elsewhere, but Trump did make a big deal about saving coal mining jobs during the campaign, and he's following through. This will no doubt save a hundred coal mining jobs. Maybe a hundred and fifty.
I was watching the news at my neighbors yesterday, and Republicans were making a big deal about Trump following through. The news anchor announced he had pulled out of the Paris accord, and then they showed a clip of a line of Republicans standing in a row on he White House lawn applauding. It reminded me of something on the Simpsons. Well at least someone had picked up the trash around the White House, and that's really what environmentalism is all about.
Apparently, the ball of progress rolls on in spite of Trump, and this is what surprises me more than anything. Many states say they will continue on the path toward mitigating climate change. California, the world's 7th largest economy, is joining Canada in taking steps to slow the effects of global warming, while Trump builds a presidency on returning to the past. This is the future, and while people weren't watching, companies have already begun to emerge, and jobs were being created in clean industry. Well OK, maybe not squeaky clean, but at least not industries that depend on the tax payers to clean up after they pollute.
There really is no great need to return to a past that no longer exists. We don't need to burn coal anymore than we need to bring back driving around the country in covered wagons. We move on. Trump doesn't see it, but things are changing in spite of his resistance, and apparently many states and even many industries are ready to embrace the change without him.
Move On? I feel triggered. Where is my teddy bear?
This is all politics ... prisoners will not be necessary. There are plenty of resources, if you kill 7 billion people first ... though the boost in funeral home business will be temporary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_7br_3y54
There is no reason why the European spaghetti Western should go on and on ... my bets are on Clint.
The real threat? Monti Paschi, the oldest and failing-ist bank in Europe, in Italy, doing banking since Shylock's bar mitzva. The Germans are coming for the Italian gold, so they can sell it to China at a market manipulated discount. See, Europe needs some gunslingers, not pacifists who embrace ME rape culture. Maybe next time Clint will let y'all fight it out on your own. Being gentlemanly is for after you put the baddies into Boot Hill.
If Trump shoves the UN and the EU up their own arses ... then he will have done something. We can respect fellow gunslingers like Russia and China.
I don't think it matters to Drump what the climate is or is not doing. He is going about his self appointed job of paying off his friends, or at least those who support him, namely big oil this time. It falls into line with the way he rolls. It's not that he is against the truth, it's that he just doesn't care. So, for him lying is simply a by-product of his not caring. What he cares about is loyalty. If you show him loyalty, he will most likely reward you (if your continued loyalty will mean anything to him) and if you are not loyal he will try and bury you.
Baruch wrote:QuoteThis is all politics ... prisoners will not be necessary. There are plenty of resources, if you kill 7 billion people first ... though the boost in funeral home business will be temporary.
Now this is the perfect plan for a utopia. Bravo!
So does this mean that Trump actively wants a polluted environment and thinks that doing so is good? Or does it mean he disagrees with policies that you believe are good for the environment?
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on June 02, 2017, 09:51:54 AM
So does this mean that Trump actively wants a polluted environment and thinks that doing so is good? Or does it mean he disagrees with policies that you believe are good for the environment?
I don't think he cares one way or the other. He is looking at this--as with all other issues--with his own interests at heart.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 02, 2017, 08:52:15 AM
I don't think it matters to Drump what the climate is or is not doing. He is going about his self appointed job of paying off his friends, or at least those who support him, namely big oil this time. It falls into line with the way he rolls. It's not that he is against the truth, it's that he just doesn't care. So, for him lying is simply a by-product of his not caring. What he cares about is loyalty. If you show him loyalty, he will most likely reward you (if your continued loyalty will mean anything to him) and if you are not loyal he will try and bury you.
Most human hierarchies are like that. Failure at loyalty usually gets you a visit from a ninja.
Quote from: pr126 on June 02, 2017, 09:01:48 AM
Baruch wrote:Now this is the perfect plan for a utopia. Bravo!
What funeral home directors consider utopia, might not be good for you ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on June 02, 2017, 01:16:54 PM
What funeral home directors consider utopia, might not be good for you ;-)
Me? I am on my way out.
Quote from: Baruch on June 02, 2017, 01:16:54 PM
What funeral home directors consider utopia, might not be good for you ;-)
Hang on a moment. You said something about klling 7 billion people. Funeral home directors will be exempt?
And how do you bury 7 billion corpses?
This throws credibility of the US out the window. No nation in the world can count on the US to stick to any agreement about anything much less on environmental issues. Nobody can trust a treaty signed by any US president again as Trump has demonstrated that we're willing to lie over even the most petty of issues.
Quote from: SGOS on June 02, 2017, 06:35:01 AM
Well at least someone had picked up the trash around the White House, and that's really what environmentalism is all about.
Well, for some reason picking up trash somewhere is called "policing the area," which I'm sure suits Chump just fine.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 02, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
This throws credibility of the US out the window. No nation in the world can count on the US to stick to any agreement about anything much less on environmental issues. Nobody can trust a treaty signed by any US president again as Trump has demonstrated that we're willing to lie over even the most petty of issues.
Amen ... drop all treaties since 1776. Tell the other folks ... FU. The USA has been a lie, since 1776. It would be unfair if other countries held up their side, while others did not. All nations should drop all treaties, and tell the other folks ... FU.
Quote from: pr126 on June 02, 2017, 01:56:16 PM
Me? I am on my way out. Hang on a moment. You said something about klling 7 billion people. Funeral home directors will be exempt?
And how do you bury 7 billion corpses?
This is about virtue signaling over the environment. Kill half of humanity, or drop standard of living in half ... for a starter, or the SJW can ...
Of course funeral home directors are exempt ... they are creepy. Why bury 7 billion, never heard of cremation? Nukes do that for you.
Why burn them? Wouldn't they make great fertilizer?
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 02, 2017, 07:19:20 PM
Why burn them? Wouldn't they make great fertilizer?
Sorry, humans aren't even good for fertilizer, or soap or lamp shades. The Germans tried that already ;-(
Burning at high enough temperature gets rid of even the poisonous fumes you get from low temperature burning.
It does create CO2 pollution however ;-) The jungles will thank us.
More than a certain amount of CO2 isn't good for plants any more than it's good for us:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/15166/20150615/climate-change-plants-choke-much-carbon.htm
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 02, 2017, 07:35:55 PM
More than a certain amount of CO2 isn't good for plants any more than it's good for us:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/15166/20150615/climate-change-plants-choke-much-carbon.htm
You have to wonder how much more we don't know about things, especially when such a "well known" relationship between CO2 and plants has been studied as much as it has and still turns out to be less understood than we thought. This kind of follows the rest of the global warming research, which seems to be full of surprises.
50 years ago, when I first heard the term "global warming", the predictions were that I would be long dead before the effects of global warming even began to appear. It would be a very slow process. Now this doesn't seem to be the case.
Now here am still alive, but living in the first generation of modern humans to see the fabled Northwest Passage open up to shipping as the polar ice cap begins to melt away. Just goes to show you how wrong the scientists are about global warming. They got the time frame completely wrong. Of course, that was a prediction from early in the research, so I will cut them some slack.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 02, 2017, 07:35:55 PM
More than a certain amount of CO2 isn't good for plants any more than it's good for us:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/15166/20150615/climate-change-plants-choke-much-carbon.htm
So ... Trump will turn the Earth into the new Venus? Great for love-ins and other orgies!
Quote from: SGOS on June 03, 2017, 08:30:22 AM
You have to wonder how much more we don't know about things, especially when such a "well known" relationship between CO2 and plants has been studied as much as it has and still turns out to be less understood than we thought. This kind of follows the rest of the global warming research, which seems to be full of surprises.
50 years ago, when I first heard the term "global warming", the predictions were that I would be long dead before the effects of global warming even began to appear. It would be a very slow process. Now this doesn't seem to be the case.
Now here am still alive, but living in the first generation of modern humans to see the fabled Northwest Passage open up to shipping as the polar ice cap begins to melt away. Just goes to show you how wrong the scientists are about global warming. They got the time frame completely wrong. Of course, that was a prediction from early in the research, so I will cut them some slack.
The only way to avoid the inevitable apocalypse ... is to die today, if not yesterday ;-(
Per the Club of Rome, CO2 is only one of our problems. Wait until only billionaires can afford drinking water. Sewage is for the little people.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 02, 2017, 10:42:11 AM
I don't think he cares one way or the other. He is looking at this--as with all other issues--with his own interests at heart.
I think it is an important question.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
Per the Club of Rome, CO2 is only one of our problems. Wait until only billionaires can afford drinking water. Sewage is for the little people.
Many of those "other" problems will be the result of too much CO2. For example global warming, and drinking water will be affected by global warming, which is a direct result of too much CO2. And creationists always point to how fine tuned the Earth is for man as evidence of the hand of God. The moral of the story is "don't fuck with the fine tuning. It's part of God's plan, and ye shall not fuck with God's plan."
Fortunately, Jesus will save us at the last minute. Well, maybe just 144,000 of us after we die. We won't actually see Jesus saving anyone, but when we are all dead, we will know that Jesus took everyone to Heaven, except for the meek who will inherit the Earth. Although the meek will be dead like everyone else, but their dead bodies left behind will be further proof of a loving but also vengeful God. And the prophecy shall be fulfilled during the sixth major extinction.
At least Hitler 1.0 was environmentally friendly....
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2017, 11:39:33 AM
As do I.
You can only trust someone who is self destructive? Like Hillary?
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2017, 05:16:28 PM
You can only trust someone who is self destructive? Like Hillary?
Yes, Baruch, I trust only you.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2017, 05:28:16 PM
Yes, Baruch, I trust only you.
I am not expecting anyone's trust ... I am surprised anyone our age, could trust anyone ... sounds childish to me. Haven't you been betrayed enough?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 03, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
At least Hitler 1.0 was environmentally friendly....
And a vegetarian. Watch out for vegetarians!
T.rump isn't anti-environment, he's simply pro-money to the exclusion of all else.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2017, 08:42:11 PM
I am not expecting anyone's trust ... I am surprised anyone our age, could trust anyone ... sounds childish to me. Haven't you been betrayed enough?
Expect it or not, you have my undying trust!
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 03, 2017, 09:04:05 PM
T.rump isn't anti-environment, he's simply pro-money to the exclusion of all else.
Obsessive/compulsive people are like that. We have many compulsions, but this is a tool that can be used for good. It provides focus and determination. But yes, any psychological property shouldn't be taken to an extreme.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2017, 09:21:54 PM
Expect it or not, you have my undying trust!
Well ... it is two years since coming here, and I am going to be pulling my punches. I think my therapy is progressing favorably. That and returning to synagogue relationship and teaching Hebrew ... while my mother is in her "end game".
Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2017, 07:55:44 PM
Yes, the Chinese have technology that will allow them to create clean industry
and they used it too during the Olympics. oversized murals of clean skies... and not allowing reporters away from them
I heard about CA trying to independantly make an agreement with China on the environment. I've also been hearing people call the Paris agreement a treaty. That is dangerous ground for Jerry Brown. It's a violation of the Constitution for any state to make a treaty. I'm surr that Trump has business buddies in CA that would like. him to point out in court that only the U.S. can make treaties. Can't have CA environmentalists cutting into the profits of his friends
Quote from: fencerider on June 05, 2017, 03:26:16 AM
and they used it too during the Olympics. oversized murals of clean skies... and not allowing reporters away from them
I heard about CA trying to independantly make an agreement with China on the environment. I've also been hearing people call the Paris agreement a treaty. That is dangerous ground for Jerry Brown. It's a violation of the Constitution for any state to make a treaty. I'm surr that Trump has business buddies in CA that would like. him to point out in court that only the U.S. can make treaties. Can't have CA environmentalists cutting into the profits of his friends
Cities are nations too ... NYC is trying to make its own foreign policy for years, and two NYC mayor are not letting Gov Brown out do them! It is like "sanctuary cities" only for Earth First terrorists.
Quote from: fencerider on June 05, 2017, 03:26:16 AM
It's a violation of the Constitution for any state to make a treaty.
Oh, the Constitution. Who cares about that? We've been shitting on it for 200 years.
Actually, I'm not sure they are calling the California/Canada agreement a treaty. It's more just making a point that Trump doesn't have the power to force states to disregard the common good.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2017, 08:53:37 PM
And a vegetarian. Watch out for vegetarians!
I don't have a distaste for vegetarians, just vegans.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 03, 2017, 09:04:05 PM
T.rump isn't anti-environment, he's simply pro-money to the exclusion of all else.
This is an important point.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 05, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
This is an important point.
I agree--money is what drives Drump. And to that end, he likes to reward those who has shown him loyalty and punish those who do not.
Quote from: SGOS on June 05, 2017, 07:31:22 AM
Oh, the Constitution. Who cares about that? We've been shitting on it for 200 years.
Actually, I'm not sure they are calling the California/Canada agreement a treaty. It's more just making a point that Trump doesn't have the power to force states to disregard the common good.
All politicians disregard the common good ... they only take care of themselves and their buddies. And no, actually since Nov 1963 .. a President doesn't have power to do anything his handlers don't want him to front for.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2017, 11:53:47 AM
I agree--money is what drives Drump. And to that end, he likes to reward those who has shown him loyalty and punish those who do not.
Just like any other tribal leader. Would you reward disloyalty and punish loyalty? Really?
Quote from: Baruch on June 05, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Just like any other tribal leader. Would you reward disloyalty and punish loyalty? Really?
No, not just like any other tribal leader. Most tribal leaders have some understanding that they have to take care of the tribe to some extent. He doesn't. Or, maybe, for him, the tribe is fluid and centers around his family and then those who benefit him and his family; and a pox on anybody else. And when he goes for revenge, he brags that it 10-fold. So, if he is a tribal leader he is an very poor one.
It's important, because in order to understand his motives and predict what he will do next, the fact that he is driven almost exclusively by money, is probably the most important thing to wrap your mind around.
This is not to say he will be good at making this country money or not. In the long run, I don't know. As of right now, stocks are up, but that has nothing to do with him. People and consumers drive the stock market, not the president.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 05, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
It's important, because in order to understand his motives and predict what he will do next, the fact that he is driven almost exclusively by money, is probably the most important thing to wrap your mind around.
This is not to say he will be good at making this country money or not. In the long run, I don't know. As of right now, stocks are up, but that has nothing to do with him. People and consumers drive the stock market, not the president.
I don't think he gives about making money for the country--just for his empire. Period.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
The only way to avoid the inevitable apocalypse ... is to die today, if not yesterday ;-(
Well, sure, since as soon as I die the universe come to a screeching end!
:menacing:
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 05, 2017, 07:09:45 PM
Well, sure, since as soon as I die the universe come to a screeching end!
:menacing:
After I am gone, why should I care? Unless of course there is an afterlife of eternal punishment ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2017, 01:39:20 PM
No, not just like any other tribal leader. Most tribal leaders have some understanding that they have to take care of the tribe to some extent. He doesn't. Or, maybe, for him, the tribe is fluid and centers around his family and then those who benefit him and his family; and a pox on anybody else. And when he goes for revenge, he brags that it 10-fold. So, if he is a tribal leader he is an very poor one.
Which Brazilian tribe that never met a White man, were you raised by, hmmm?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 05, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
It's important, because in order to understand his motives and predict what he will do next, the fact that he is driven almost exclusively by money, is probably the most important thing to wrap your mind around.
This is not to say he will be good at making this country money or not. In the long run, I don't know. As of right now, stocks are up, but that has nothing to do with him. People and consumers drive the stock market, not the president.
You predict the future too? Didn't know you were an un-Biblical prophet of profit. Good thing us Kekistanis don't believe in your "economics" religion.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2017, 06:05:47 PM
I don't think he gives about making money for the country--just for his empire. Period.
If you are a Mongol, it is smart to follow Genghis Khan. Americans are a horde, for sure.
Quote from: Baruch on June 05, 2017, 07:43:47 PM
Which Brazilian tribe that never met a White man, were you raised by, hmmm?
You know, the one..................
Quote from: Baruch on June 05, 2017, 07:43:47 PM
Which Brazilian tribe that never met a White man, were you raised by, hmmm?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL6jvTbVEAAOaXm.jpg)
The good news is that Trump isn't anti-environment. The bad news is that he doesn't even think about it. He has no basis for a thought either way. If his supporters are for it he is too. If not, he isn't. From his point of view, resources are there to be used up for profit, but he will say whatever keeps his base happy.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 07, 2017, 03:43:27 AM
The good news is that Trump isn't anti-environment. The bad news is that he doesn't even think about it. He has no basis for a thought either way. If his supporters are for it he is too. If not, he isn't. From his point of view, resources are there to be used up for profit, but he will say whatever keeps his base happy.
Americans would like a benign dictator ... and someday we will get one. Unfortunately all dictators are anti-benign ;-(
Yeah, they'd like to have a loving God, too, but they're always going to be disappointed. As the man in black said - "get used to disappointment."
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 07, 2017, 04:43:23 PM
Yeah, they'd like to have a loving God, too, but they're always going to be disappointed. As the man in black said - "get used to disappointment."
Unfortunately there are no insect or squid aliens to eliminate humanity. Alien - "tastes like chicken".
What if? The global warming aka "climate change" is just a scam to get rich quick for a few?
Do we know?
I mean climate change does happen all the time for eons.
In the past whole habitable areas have been deserted, people moved or died because of it.
Did humans caused it? I doubt very much.
I know. It is heretical thinking.
Quote from: pr126 on June 08, 2017, 04:26:01 AM
What if? The global warming aka "climate change" is just a scam to get rich quick for a few?
Do we know?
I mean climate change does happen all the time for eons.
In the past whole habitable areas have been deserted, people moved or died because of it.
Did humans caused it? I doubt very much.
Just asking.
Getting hotter? Getting colder? Doesn't matter ...
All of economics is rich people getting richer, quicker.
Carbon trading is a scam, all the way down, by the EU ... still like the EU?
Quote from: pr126 on June 08, 2017, 04:26:01 AM
What if? The global warming aka "climate change" is just a scam to get rich quick for a few?
Do we know?
I mean climate change does happen all the time for eons.
In the past whole habitable areas have been deserted, people moved or died because of it.
Did humans caused it? I doubt very much.
I know. It is heretical thinking.
This bullshit again?
(http://www.mamieyoung.com/dailydawdle/Create%20a%20better%20world%20for%20nothing.jpg)
But ... but ... there is no Creator. And hence no creator either. We are just uppity aspects of the biosphere, not independent, not creative (we only seem that way because we are ignorant). So how can humans improve things? Especially since each generation we have to start from scratch with new helpless infants.
Quote from: pr126 on June 08, 2017, 04:26:01 AM
What if? The global warming aka "climate change" is just a scam to get rich quick for a few?
Do we know?
I mean climate change does happen all the time for eons.
In the past whole habitable areas have been deserted, people moved or died because of it.
Did humans caused it? I doubt very much.
I know. It is heretical thinking.
Heretical thinking is fine. Stupid thinking is not. Climate change by human cause is no longer in doubt.
It is one thing to claim that one desert is larger because of natural causes. It is another to claim the whole planet is warming from natural causes.
The sun is not warmer than it used to be. The Earth's orbit is not changing to cause warming. The Earth's core is not warming. The only correlation is human fossil fuel carbon releasing causes. Basically, you are claiming the Earth's global climate is warming for no reason!
I don't like stupid people...
Quote from: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 06:43:17 AM
Heretical thinking is fine. Stupid thinking is not. Climate change by human cause is no longer in doubt.
It is one thing to claim that one desert is larger because of natural causes. It is another to claim the whole planet is warming from natural causes.
The sun is not warmer than it used to be. The Earth's orbit is not changing to cause warming. The Earth's core is not warming. The only correlation is human fossil fuel carbon releasing causes. Basically, you are claiming the Earth's global climate is warming for no reason!
I don't like stupid people...
I agree with the science, but I don't agree with the Euro-socialism carbon trading. Basically Germany wants all your money, and then some.