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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: pr126 on May 27, 2017, 10:26:19 AM

Title: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: pr126 on May 27, 2017, 10:26:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3TIFH1q0bM
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on May 27, 2017, 12:28:38 PM
When will the intelligence services, that run all Western governments as their bitches, stop using Wilson's War as their main strategy, against all enemies, foreign and domestic?
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Shiranu on May 27, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
Muslims are Nazis...

Reaching new lows.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on May 27, 2017, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on May 27, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
Muslims are Nazis...

Reaching new lows.

The Turks and Palestinians are frequent German allies.  Hence the understandable confusion.  Actually Muslims are far more disturbing ... though Arab Muslims are very much into master race theory, even toward other Muslims.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 27, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
The Japanese used to complain that the "Imperialist nations" failed to "understand our true intentions" before Pearl Harbor. Problem was that we DID understand them.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on May 27, 2017, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 27, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
The Japanese used to complain that the "Imperialist nations" failed to "understand our true intentions" before Pearl Harbor. Problem was that we DID understand them.

Wrong section but good recent study: Operation Olympic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2NZVQzfAbo
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 04:45:07 AM
Judaism has always been a been restrictive.  You have to prove you are one.

Christianity was more open.  You said you liked the idea, followed some rituals, you were one.

Islam has been more aggressive.  It started spreading at swordpoint through the Middle East, spread by swordpoint across North Africa, moved into Spain at swordpoint, moved into Eastern Europe at swordpoint.  The Eastern Europeans fought bloody battles losing to the Islamists.  Christians wanting Spain and the Balkans back became militant and organized.

Islam is not, and has never been, a peaceful religion.  Neither have the Christians been since the Islamist attacks.  The Islamists created the Christian Crusaders and the Islamists fanatics went against them again.

Both sides became crazed lunatics then and are crazy lunatics to this day.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 05:03:09 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on May 27, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
Muslims are Nazis...

Reaching new lows.

Why aren't you able to separate the religion from the person when it comes to Islam? The video is saying Islam, but seems even saying that, you think it's saying all brown people are Nazis. Lost the point entirely
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 05:17:07 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 18, 2017, 05:03:09 AM
Why aren't you able to separate the religion from the person when it comes to Islam? The video is saying Islam, but seems even saying that, you think it's saying all brown people are Nazis. Lost the point entirely

I think the point is that theists not only can't separate the religion from ethnicity sometimes, but can't conceive of the idea of all humans not themselves are worthy of heretical existence in the ideals of their deity or deities.

It would be a HUGE step for such people to get the idea that all other humans deserve to live as respected individuals.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 06:05:48 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 05:17:07 AM
I think the point is that theists not only can't separate the religion from ethnicity sometimes, but can't conceive of the idea of all humans not themselves are worthy of heretical existence in the ideals of their deity or deities.

It would be a HUGE step for such people to get the idea that all other humans deserve to live as respected individuals.

Well anyone here who broke away from the religion they were raised to believe is part of themselves knows that's crap, it's an ideology that you can break from with the right mind for it. We can't break from our sexuality, skin colour, or even nationality without some serious methods, but religion is just an indoctrinated mindset we break from with education and realization.
This is why I will never see a person's faith as being truly part of themselves, because we've seen that people can grow up and evolve from believing such nonsense into something better.

This is why when a person gets offended when you insult a faith group like your insulting their very humanity, I don't ever see it that way, your merely calling what they believe as bad, not them as people.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
I agree completely it is the belief (almost any belief) that is bad, not the person.  But when one seems dedicated to a belief, I have to question that person eventually.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 06:59:37 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
I agree completely it is the belief (almost any belief) that is bad, not the person.  But when one seems dedicated to a belief, I have to question that person eventually.

to me I'm always going to count is as a psychological condition that can be fixed and the person made to realize they're more then what its followers tells them they are. So yes, counting a faith in the same pool as nazism is pretty appropriate
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 07:04:42 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 18, 2017, 06:59:37 AM
to me I'm always going to count is as a psychological condition that can be fixed and the person made to realize they're more then what its followers tells them they are. So yes, counting a faith in the same pool as nazism is pretty appropriate

Right .. Nazism might not be a religion, but most religion is an ideology.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Munch on July 18, 2017, 10:28:53 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 18, 2017, 07:04:42 AM
Right .. Nazism might not be a religion, but most religion is an ideology.

true its not classed as a religion, but lets face the fact it might as well be given how it can turn perfectly rational human beings into hate mongering zealots, like Islam or Christianity can.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 10:47:01 AM
"Like being a Republican?", Tom asked politically...
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: pr126 on November 06, 2017, 04:09:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwrbBuIbjnM
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2017, 06:58:36 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 18, 2017, 10:28:53 AM
true its not classed as a religion, but lets face the fact it might as well be given how it can turn perfectly rational human beings into hate mongering zealots, like Islam or Christianity can.

If you think that G-d approves of your worst tendencies, it is hard to not go with it.

And no, there is no peace, religion or no religion.  Violent apes are like that.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 03:16:10 AM
Quote from: Baruch on November 06, 2017, 06:58:36 AM
If you think that G-d approves of your worst tendencies, it is hard to not go with it.

And no, there is no peace, religion or no religion.  Violent apes are like that.

You like to harp on "violent apes" a lot.   I think you might be missing a degree of self awareness.

For good or ill, humans have something our related apes don't.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:23:26 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 03:16:10 AM
You like to harp on "violent apes" a lot.   I think you might be missing a degree of self awareness.

For good or ill, humans have something our related apes don't.

Mark Twain says ... that apes, unlike us, have shame ... aka humans are the only species that blushes or needs to.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 06:29:45 AM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:23:26 AM
Mark Twain says ... that apes, unlike us, have shame ... aka humans are the only species that blushes or needs to.

Twain never let facts stand in his way.  He had it quite backwards in a literal sense.  But knowing his talent for sarcasm, he might have known that we are the only blushing apes.

The other great apes do NOT blush and have no sense of shame.  They would kill their own mother for a grape.

Beware of depending on creative (shameless) fabulists like Twain for your facts...
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:32:05 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 06:29:45 AM
Twain never let facts stand in his way.  He had it quite backwards in a literal sense.  But knowing his talent for sarcasm, he might have known that we are the only blushing apes.

The other great apes do NOT blush and have no sense of shame.  They would kill their own mother for a grape.

Beware of depending on creative (shameless) fabulists like Twain for your facts...

As a theist, I am a shameless fabulist ;-)  But I bow to the master, Mr Clemens.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 09:28:38 AM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:32:05 AM
As a theist, I am a shameless fabulist ;-)  But I bow to the master, Mr Clemens.

I fully understand the fabulism of theists.  And their subsequent admiration for the writings of Mr Clemens.  But keep in mind he said "Stripping away the irrational, the illogical, and the impossible, I am left with atheism. I can live with that."
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 09:28:38 AM
I fully understand the fabulism of theists.  And their subsequent admiration for the writings of Mr Clemens.  But keep in mind he said "Stripping away the irrational, the illogical, and the impossible, I am left with atheism. I can live with that."

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. = Einstein.  Just don't go full retard into nihilism like some claim here.
Title: Re: Islam: The Ideology of the constantly "misunderstood".
Post by: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 01:22:11 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 01:18:19 PM
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. = Einstein.  Just don't go full retard into nihilism like some claim here.

Of all the things I might be, "nihilist" is not one of them.  I value life.  I value living.  I love my cats and miss them and weep when they die.  I'm a "softie".  I leave nihilism to the drudgy goths...