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News & General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:36:10 AM

Title: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:36:10 AM
Today, the worst incident I've ever had on the road occurred. I was trying merge into the left turning lane at a traffic light and there was a guy on a motorcycle (with his girlfriend on the back) about 2 car lengths behind me already in the left turning lane. I give my signal with ample time for him to see it and start aiming my nose in so as to indicate I'm trying to get in. The guy keeps going and doesn't let me in. I have to get over so I try my best ease in. We get stopped at the red light light, and the guy pulls right up beside my truck and screams at me, "I'm going to drag you out of that piece of shit truck and beat the shit out of you!" This angered me so I flipped him the bird and said "fuck you". So he proceeded to turn off his motorcycle and get off to come "drag me out my truck"
I guess. I darted off when he did this because the guy was obviously bigger than me and could have destroyed me. But I couldn't help but think afterwards that if I had had a gun I could have pulled out  and pointed at him when he tried to walk to my truck, he would have immediately become not such a tough guy anymore. Would I have been in the wrong had I done this? What if he was beating on my truck trying to get in and I shot him? Would I have committed and big crime? Or would it have been viewed as self defense? What if I had killed him? It's just hypothetical. Thanks.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Sal1981 on May 15, 2017, 06:57:59 AM
Doesn't sound like self-defense, the way you word it, so I think you'd probably be charged with manslaughter.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 07:09:38 AM
Driving problems?  Road rage?  Just say no to both.  There is no self defense in US law, unless you are a cop.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Shiranu on May 15, 2017, 07:25:22 AM
That would have been manslaughter, and you would be getting ass fucked in prison right now.


Edit: Right now being figurative for very soon.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 15, 2017, 08:36:05 AM
Guns make everything better. Bubba's sex life, for example. For reasons of (past) professional interest I watch dash cam videos. Everytime guns come out things go to shit.

A question: Have you ever shot anyone? Do you know you can do it, take a life? And one thing the people who pack guns tend to forget/ignore is the Mongo Factor. "Don't shoot him, you'll just make him mad."
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 10:09:34 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:36:10 AM
T
about 2 car lengths behind me already in the left turning lane. I give my signal with ample time for him to see it and start aiming my nose in so as to indicate I'm trying to get in. The guy keeps going and doesn't let me in. I have to get over so I try my best ease in.

This is what makes you totally in the wrong.  You do not have a 'right' to go into that different lane.  The guy in the lane has the right of way; he could yield it to you to be polite, but he has the right to be in that lane and you don't.  If the guy does not let you in, you cannot force your way in.  If you do force your way in, you would be in the wrong. If you did not turn what would be the worst that could happen?  You might have to go through the light and then turn around--you'd lose a few minutes. 
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:10:50 PM
If he's trying to break into my truck and beat me up, and I shot him? That would be manslaughter on my part? 
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:15:27 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 10:09:34 AM
This is what makes you totally in the wrong.  You do not have a 'right' to go into that different lane.  The guy in the lane has the right of way; he could yield it to you to be polite, but he has the right to be in that lane and you don't.  If the guy does not let you in, you cannot force your way in.  If you do force your way in, you would be in the wrong. If you did not turn what would be the worst that could happen?  You might have to go through the light and then turn around--you'd lose a few minutes.
I know. I seem to always be wrong. Never mind that the guy would have absolutely pulverized me if he got his hands on me. That would have been a "gesture of love" from him. If he was the one pushing his way into the lane, I'd have been the asshole for not letting him in. I always seem to be wrong.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:18:42 PM
No more answers please. Thanks.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:10:50 PM
If he's trying to break into my truck and beat me up, and I shot him? That would be manslaughter on my part?

Not the same scenario ... don't change the subject.  If you had a time machine, would you kill baby Hitler?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:15:27 PM
I know. I seem to always be wrong. Never mind that the guy would have absolutely pulverized me if he got his hands on me. That would have been a "gesture of love" from him. If he was the one pushing his way into the lane, I'd have been the asshole for not letting him in. I always seem to be wrong.

In society, if you aren't the cop, yes you are always wrong.  Never take that BS about your rights ... seriously.  It will only get you in trouble.  Sorry you had a traffic incident ... glad you didn't get hurt.  I hope that makes you feel better.  Been there, done that, donated at the office.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 01:00:45 PM
Not the same scenario ... don't change the subject.  If you had a time machine, would you kill baby Hitler?
No actually it was the exact same scenario I was talking about. I was asking this question specifically in the context of the man getting off his bike and trying to break into my truck and drag me out as he said he was going to do. Go read it again.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
No actually it was the exact same scenario I was talking about. I was asking this question specifically in the context of the man getting off his bike and trying to break into my truck and drag me out as he said he was going to do. Go read it again.

A hypothetical vs what actually happened.  Don't worry about hypotheticals ... the actuals are bad enough.  Don't take the altercation personally either.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
A hypothetical vs what actually happened.  Don't worry about hypotheticals ... the actuals are bad enough.
Oh no. On the contrary. This would have actually happened had I not pulled away. The man was cocksure and was getting off of his bike. If I had stayed he likely wouldn't have been able to break into my truck, but if he did try to do it I can't help but think how different it would be had I held up a gun.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 12:10:50 PM
If he's trying to break into my truck and beat me up, and I shot him? That would be manslaughter on my part?
He would not have been doing that if you had not tried to kill him and his girl on their bike.  You are the first cause here.  If I were DA, I go for felony murder against you.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
He would not have been doing that if you had not tried to kill him and his girl on their bike.  You are the first cause here.  If I were DA, I go for felony murder against you.
Absolutely not one single part of what happened would give him a right to try to break in my truck and harm me. Fuck you Mike Cl.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 02:06:59 PM
Absolutely not one single part of what happened would give him a right to try to break in my truck and harm me. Fuck you Mike Cl.
Actually, you are correct--he would not have the right to harm you, or even try to harm you.  What he should have done would be to take down your licence plate number and reported you to the police.

This is a little more complicated than what you may want to think.  You need to google what is considered self defense in your state.  Each state can be different than other states.  In some states you can shoot somebody if you think your life is in danger--others you can't.  When you read what is considered self defense in your state I think you can figure out what you can and cannot do legally. 

My main point is that you cannot legally use your turn signal to 'demand' a spot in another lane.  You can legally only move into another lane when it is safe to do so, and they use your signal to show intent.   

And fuck me?  No thanks, I'm not a homosexual (not that that is good or bad, I'm just not)--but in any case, do use a condom.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 02:18:22 PM

And fuck me?  No thanks, I'm not a homosexual (not that that is good or bad, I'm just not)--but in any case, do use a condom.
Oh no. I only go bareback.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 15, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Are you trolling, @MyelinSheath? What's with the douche-baggery?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 15, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Are you trolling, @MyelinSheath? What's with the douche-baggery?
No not really. Just kinda pissed and stressed out from the week that's all. Taking it out on you guys.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 15, 2017, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
Taking it out on you guys.

I'd advise to not do that. We have nothing to do with your poor processing skills and we shouldn't get the shit end of the stick because we don't agree with your hypothetical shitty decisions and the events that would follow them.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 15, 2017, 05:15:57 PM
You can't shoot a person because the sun was in your eyes. This isn't The Stranger. And you're not living in a book world by Camus.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 15, 2017, 05:15:57 PM
You can't shoot a person because the sun was in your eyes. This isn't The Stranger. And you're not living in a book world by Camus.
I can't be expected to defend every strawman of the hypothetical scenario I presented. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough that I was speaking specifically within the context of him trying to attack me. Physically getting off his motorcycle attempting to break into my vehicle and drag me out to assault me. I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about shooting him if he did this. Sorry. Oh wait, no I'm not.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 01:10:33 PM
Oh no. On the contrary. This would have actually happened had I not pulled away. The man was cocksure and was getting off of his bike. If I had stayed he likely wouldn't have been able to break into my truck, but if he did try to do it I can't help but think how different it would be had I held up a gun.

Zimmerman complex?  You need help if you visualize first person shooter ... for real.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
He would not have been doing that if you had not tried to kill him and his girl on their bike.  You are the first cause here.  If I were DA, I go for felony murder against you.

Second degree murder, not manslaughter either.  Not a good thing.  But being negligent enough to almost cause an accident, even if the accident didn't occur, is called reckless driving for a reason.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 15, 2017, 07:00:47 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
He would not have been doing that if you had not tried to kill him and his girl on their bike.  You are the first cause here.  If I were DA, I go for felony murder against you.
Well, we don't have complete information on this issue, so it would be premature to make any determination of fate of any party. My own estimation included, of course.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
I can't be expected to defend every strawman of the hypothetical scenario I presented. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough that I was speaking specifically within the context of him trying to attack me. Physically getting off his motorcycle attempting to break into my vehicle and drag me out to assault me. I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about shooting him if he did this. Sorry. Oh wait, no I'm not.
Him attacking you did not happen in a vacuum--there was something that triggered that attack.  You said so yourself. 
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 07:08:13 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
Second degree murder, not manslaughter either.  Not a good thing.  But being negligent enough to almost cause an accident, even if the accident didn't occur, is called reckless driving for a reason.
Yeah the guy could have actually drug me out and beat the shit out of me and you guys would still say he's a perfect little angel and that I was a scumbag murderer, wouldn't you? You guys are dead set on me being evil, aren't you? To say that what I did was trying to kill this man by trying to run him off the road is one of the most absurd and decisive strawmen I have ever heard. The man had multiple car lengths to let me in and he knows it. I clearly signalled my intentions way in advance. Sure, maybe it wasn't the smartest decision. But it would have given him no right to do what he was clearly about to do if I had hung around (assault me). I have never purposely hurt anyone, And have never engaged in road rage. 

So I'll give you all what you want. That guy is a perfect angel who has never, and will never, hurt anyone in his entire life, and was absolutely justified to beat me within an inch of my life. He is perfect and precious in every way. I, on the other hand, I am an evil scumbag who intentionally tried to kill him on the road. Everything I do in my entire life is spiteful, mean, and evil. I am an evil individual who should be thrown in prison for first-degree murder. This is far less a strawman of what you guys are saying then your depictions of what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 15, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 07:09:38 AM
Driving problems?  Road rage?  Just say no to both.  There is no self defense in US law, unless you are a cop.
What about all those "stand your ground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law)" laws?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 15, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 07:08:13 PM
Yeah the guy could have actually drug me out and beat the shit out of me and you guys would still say he's a perfect little angel and that I was a scumbag murderer, wouldn't you?
Why should we believe your version of events? You might just be slightly biased. I used to handle auto accident claims for a major insurance company. People usually told the version most favorable to them.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 15, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
Why should we believe your version of events? You might just be slightly biased. I used to handle auto accident claims for a major insurance company. People usually told the version most favorable to them.
Any biased account I would give would be more accurate than the strawmen you people are giving. Leaning towards the conclusion that I actually tried to kill this guy by running him off the road. I've never in my life.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mike Cl on May 15, 2017, 09:47:29 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 07:08:13 PM
Yeah the guy could have actually drug me out and beat the shit out of me and you guys would still say he's a perfect little angel and that I was a scumbag murderer, wouldn't you? You guys are dead set on me being evil, aren't you? To say that what I did was trying to kill this man by trying to run him off the road is one of the most absurd and decisive strawmen I have ever heard. The man had multiple car lengths to let me in and he knows it. I clearly signalled my intentions way in advance. Sure, maybe it wasn't the smartest decision. But it would have given him no right to do what he was clearly about to do if I had hung around (assault me). I have never purposely hurt anyone, And have never engaged in road rage. 

So I'll give you all what you want. That guy is a perfect angel who has never, and will never, hurt anyone in his entire life, and was absolutely justified to beat me within an inch of my life. He is perfect and precious in every way. I, on the other hand, I am an evil scumbag who intentionally tried to kill him on the road. Everything I do in my entire life is spiteful, mean, and evil. I am an evil individual who should be thrown in prison for first-degree murder. This is far less a strawman of what you guys are saying then your depictions of what I'm saying.
Poor, poor pitiful me...........................
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 15, 2017, 09:50:31 PM
Ah, hell, prison's not as bad as it's made out to be in the movies.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 15, 2017, 09:50:31 PM
Ah, hell, prison's not as bad as it's made out to be in the movies.

I hope that is sarcasm ;-(
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 15, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
What about all those "stand your ground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law)" laws?

Doesn't apply unless you live in your car ;-(
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Shiranu on May 15, 2017, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 07:08:13 PM
Yeah the guy could have actually drug me out and beat the shit out of me...

I kinda wish he had now, douchebag.

You know, if you want people to feel sympathy for you, maybe don't instantly start telling them to fuck themselves because they have a different opinion than you, and then saying don't respond unless we will circle jerk with you.

The way you're behaving, I wouldn't be surprised if you're leaving out that you also pissed in his shoe, fucked his wife and kicked his baby.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 16, 2017, 01:00:25 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on May 15, 2017, 11:04:35 PM
I kinda wish he had now, douchebag.

You know, if you want people to feel sympathy for you, maybe don't instantly start telling them to fuck themselves because they have a different opinion than you, and then saying don't respond unless we will circle jerk with you.

The way you're behaving, I wouldn't be surprised if you're leaving out that you also pissed in his shoe, fucked his wife and kicked his baby.
and shat in his mom's mouth
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 01:16:33 AM
What can I say? You guys were determined that I was the evil party from the beginning. There's not a single post were any of you allowed for the possibility that he could have been in the wrong.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Hydra009 on May 16, 2017, 01:42:55 AM
Me just watching the sparks fly

(https://i.imgur.com/hv8a3jg.gif)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 16, 2017, 03:57:10 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 01:16:33 AM
What can I say? You guys were determined that I was the evil party from the beginning.

Well, you asked; we answered.

I can tell you this... I'm not too sure how I feel about having a could-be murderer on the forum. Something goes the wrong way, you might commit manslaughter. Don't worry, I'm sure you'd have great excuses, though.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 07:04:03 AM
At least most of us have gotten past dwelling on violence, or encouraging it in others ;-)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 16, 2017, 07:21:23 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
Any biased account I would give would be more accurate than the strawmen you people are giving. Leaning towards the conclusion that I actually tried to kill this guy by running him off the road. I've never in my life.
Again, why should we believe you? I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm trying to establish the validity of your claim. Unsupported statements should always be treated as "unproven".
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Hydra009 on May 16, 2017, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 16, 2017, 03:57:10 AMI can tell you this... I'm not too sure how I feel about having a could-be murderer on the forum.
Does hypothetically killing baby Hitler count?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: chill98 on May 16, 2017, 10:03:37 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
Any biased account I would give would be more accurate than the strawmen you people are giving. Leaning towards the conclusion that I actually tried to kill this guy by running him off the road. I've never in my life.
You missed your turn.  You are supposed to be in position to merge into the turn lane BEFORE actually arriving at the entry into the turn lane.  Without seeing the markings on the roadway you used, it is likely you were making an illegal merge - were you crossing a solid white line?

You targeted the biker because you perceived him as smaller/weaker, which is why you didn't nose your way into the turn lane when confronted by an equal power - two other cars.  So you are a bully too. 

Bitched at by the biker and being the tough guy you think you are, you wave the bird rather than a "sorry" signal, accelerating the situation that you created - like a true bully.  The world must come to a stop because of your f*ck ups.  Everyone else doing the right thing, like getting into the turn lane at the proper entry, does not matter because the inconvenience to you of having to do things the right way, like go through the light and turn around so you can achieve a functionally easier (and safer) right hand turn never crossed your mind.  It's all about YOU!

So now, after flipping the big guy on the bike off, you are fearful that you might have had your ass handed to you.  You bravely drive away as the light turns green.  So just how long were you sitting in this turn lane, as written this sounds like a rapid fire signal.  Makes me wonder just how many times you told this guy to F-off.

Then you come to a forum to ask whether killing this guy with a gun would be justified and reacting like a victim when not hearing what you want to hear.   Spend some time thinking about how you can avoid creating these kinds of situations in the first place.  MERGING traffic is obligated to YIELD to existing traffic in the lane you want.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/MUTCD_R1-2.svg/299px-MUTCD_R1-2.svg.png)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: SGOS on May 16, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
Don't fuck with bikers.  They can be very sensitive about their rights on the road.  Their risky exposure to dangerous accidents already puts them under increased stress, and this can make them sensitive to the many drivers who ignore them.  I would have sincerely apologized, and hoped for the best.  It's possible that you didn't really cut him off, depending on how far back he was, but I wasn't there.  It's possible that he was prone to road rage.  While road rage is not an accident, it might be a red flag.  I'd certainly consider my part in it.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: SGOS on May 16, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
Don't fuck with bikers.  They can be very sensitive about their rights on the road.  Their risky exposure to dangerous accidents already puts them under increased stress, and this can make them sensitive to the many drivers who ignore them.  I would have sincerely apologized, and hoped for the best.  It's possible that you didn't really cut him off, depending on how far back he was, but I wasn't there.  It's possible that he was prone to road rage.  While road rage is not an accident, it might be a red flag.  I'd certainly consider my part in it.

The biker I know, legally carries heat.  And he is a veteran .. no mess with him!
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 01:20:37 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 01:16:33 AM
What can I say? You guys were determined that I was the evil party from the beginning. There's not a single post were any of you allowed for the possibility that he could have been in the wrong.

Don't join the American "I am a bigger victim than you" club.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 16, 2017, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 16, 2017, 09:04:59 AM
Does hypothetically killing baby Hitler count?
Abort all babies.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:36:10 AM
Today, the worst incident I've ever had on the road occurred. I was trying merge into the left turning lane at a traffic light and there was a guy on a motorcycle (with his girlfriend on the back) about 2 car lengths behind me already in the left turning lane. I give my signal with ample time for him to see it and start aiming my nose in so as to indicate I'm trying to get in. The guy keeps going and doesn't let me in. I have to get over so I try my best ease in. We get stopped at the red light light, and the guy pulls right up beside my truck and screams at me, "I'm going to drag you out of that piece of shit truck and beat the shit out of you!" This angered me so I flipped him the bird and said "fuck you". So he proceeded to turn off his motorcycle and get off to come "drag me out my truck"
I guess. I darted off when he did this because the guy was obviously bigger than me and could have destroyed me. But I couldn't help but think afterwards that if I had had a gun I could have pulled out  and pointed at him when he tried to walk to my truck, he would have immediately become not such a tough guy anymore. Would I have been in the wrong had I done this? What if he was beating on my truck trying to get in and I shot him? Would I have committed and big crime? Or would it have been viewed as self defense? What if I had killed him? It's just hypothetical. Thanks.

The original aggressor is only allowed to use a self defense as an affirmative defense under certain circumstance. Were you the original aggressor? Many of your peers in a potential jury pool would probably think so if you tried to force your way into a someone else's lane knowing they were there. You didn't help a self defense claim any when you flipped them off either. On top of all that you obviously had the opportunity to disengage by driving off.

If you were the original aggressor then shot the guy knowing you could have safely disengaged you wouldn't want me on the jury at your trial because I'd want your ass off the street.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
I was wrong. The biker was perfect. I deserved to have him knock every tooth in my head out. I'm an evil murderer and I intentionally tried to kill him. Thanks for only looking at it from his point of view. I mean why would you even consider the point of view of an evil murderer like me?

Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 03:31:11 PM
lol

I wasn't looking at it from either of your POV's Myelin. I was looking at it from a lawful/moral perspective. If you think I've got the lawful part of it wrong then look up original aggressor and self defense in the US. As far as moral goes a person gives up their right to be aggressive except as a last resort when they choose to arm themselves with a gun. You strap on a gun then go pick a fight where you might have to use it you were wrong.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
Someone please delete my account right now. I will be damned if I'm going to stay here and listen to people insinuate that I'm a could-be murder. I've never harmed anyone in my entire life. I've never even been in a fight ever. And I have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to be in such situations. I have always turned the other cheek and avoided violence. Not a single goddamn post in this fucking thread ever even attempted to look at things from my point of view. I was an evil scumbag murderer from the beginning. I mean, almost everyone in this thread asserted a priori that I intended to kill the man by merging. How fucking dare you? I'll be damned if I will remain a part of this piece of shit community. Fuck every single one of you.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on May 16, 2017, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
Someone please delete my account right now. I will be damned if I'm going to stay here and listen to people insinuate that I'm a could-be murder. I've never harmed anyone in my entire life. I've never even been in a fight ever. And I have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to be in such situations. I have always turned the other cheek and avoided violence. Not a single goddamn post in this fucking thread ever even attempted to look at things from my point of view. I was an evil scumbag murderer from the beginning. I mean, almost everyone in this thread asserted a priori that I intended to kill the man by merging. How fucking dare you? I'll be damned if I will remain a part of this piece of shit community. Fuck every single one of you.

You could have just stopped replying and never return, rather than throwing this tantrum and demanding to be deleted. That is telling, you realize?

The only value this forum holds, the only value we hold... The only value our words hold... Is the value you put in yourself.

Be at peace Sheath. Stop looking to the outside for confirmation or adoration.
Stop worrying.
Just be.

And goodbye.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
Someone please delete my account right now. I will be damned if I'm going to stay here and listen to people insinuate that I'm a could-be murder. I've never harmed anyone in my entire life. I've never even been in a fight ever. And I have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to be in such situations. I have always turned the other cheek and avoided violence. Not a single goddamn post in this fucking thread ever even attempted to look at things from my point of view. I was an evil scumbag murderer from the beginning. I mean, almost everyone in this thread asserted a priori that I intended to kill the man by merging. How fucking dare you? I'll be damned if I will remain a part of this piece of shit community. Fuck every single one of you.

[mod]No we won't delete your account because you got butt hurt.[/mod]

If you didn't want our opinions you shouldn't have asked.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:57:48 PM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
[mod]No we won't delete your account because you got butt hurt.[/mod]

If you didn't want our opinions you shouldn't have asked.
And with that, I'm gone. Thanks.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 04:00:31 PM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on May 16, 2017, 04:00:31 PM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Oh go eat a bag of dicks.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on May 16, 2017, 05:09:46 PM
Sheesh, what a dick. MyelinSheath was in a bigger, heavier vehicle, reasonably well-protected from harm in this kind of situation, edging into a space that did not belong to him, against someone on (not in, on) a vehicle that even under the best of circumstances any accident would likely result in serious injury to him and his girlfriend. He edged toward the other guy's lane a bit, but the other guy didn't give MS the right of way. When Mr. Biker did not give up his right of way to MS, MS edged in further. MyelinSheath was making moves consistent with threatening Mr. Biker with grave bodily harm should he not give up his right of way to him. Of course he's going to get pissed off at you, MyelinSheath.

The rule of the road is that right of way is always given, not taken, and MyelinSheath was trying to take right of way that wasn't his. Anyone on the jury who understands the above calculus, or is sympathetic to motorcyclists, or realizes that MyelinSheath could have adequately protected himself from harm by locking his truck doors, is not going to be very sympathetic to a defendant who somehow turns this rather minor traffic incident into one where a dead body is involved.

The motorcyclist might not have been a saint, but the end result is that no beating actually occurred, his bluster notwithstanding. You, MyelinSheath, were the only one who was openly contemplating turning anyone into a corpse. You'll get no sympathy from us.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 16, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 10:38:31 PM
I hope that is sarcasm ;-(
Abandon hope, and you will be closer to the truth.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 16, 2017, 05:21:44 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 15, 2017, 10:39:35 PM
Doesn't apply unless you live in your car ;-(
What if you live in someone else's car?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
I was wrong. The biker was perfect. I deserved to have him knock every tooth in my head out. I'm an evil murderer and I intentionally tried to kill him. Thanks for only looking at it from his point of view. I mean why would you even consider the point of view of an evil murderer like me?

I am perfect.  I won't forgive any of you.  I will burn you all! - G-d
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 08:01:12 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
Someone please delete my account right now. I will be damned if I'm going to stay here and listen to people insinuate that I'm a could-be murder. I've never harmed anyone in my entire life. I've never even been in a fight ever. And I have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to be in such situations. I have always turned the other cheek and avoided violence. Not a single goddamn post in this fucking thread ever even attempted to look at things from my point of view. I was an evil scumbag murderer from the beginning. I mean, almost everyone in this thread asserted a priori that I intended to kill the man by merging. How fucking dare you? I'll be damned if I will remain a part of this piece of shit community. Fuck every single one of you.

You insinuate that you have Dirty Harry fantasies.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 08:02:20 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 16, 2017, 05:21:44 PM
What if you live in someone else's car?

Then the owner can just have OnStar gas you.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 16, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 04:08:52 PM
Oh go eat a bag of dicks.

Don't encourage the gay members, unless you plan on providing the entertainment ;-)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 17, 2017, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
Someone please delete my account right now. I will be damned if I'm going to stay here and listen to people insinuate that I'm a could-be murder. I've never harmed anyone in my entire life. I've never even been in a fight ever. And I have had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to be in such situations. I have always turned the other cheek and avoided violence. Not a single goddamn post in this fucking thread ever even attempted to look at things from my point of view. I was an evil scumbag murderer from the beginning. I mean, almost everyone in this thread asserted a priori that I intended to kill the man by merging. How fucking dare you? I'll be damned if I will remain a part of this piece of shit community. Fuck every single one of you.
lol No one is going to delete your account. We don't delete here. I'd be more than happy to put you in Purgatory, if you like though. Let me know how you feel about it
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Shiranu on May 17, 2017, 01:24:00 AM
QuoteSomeone please delete my account right now.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mjl.gif)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 17, 2017, 10:00:02 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 16, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
I was wrong. The biker was perfect. I deserved to have him knock every tooth in my head out. I'm an evil murderer and I intentionally tried to kill him. Thanks for only looking at it from his point of view. I mean why would you even consider the point of view of an evil murderer like me?


Get over yourself.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on May 17, 2017, 10:13:41 AM
I like it how Sheath was full of piss and vinegar about us not looking at things from his point of view, when his point of view is the only one that was presented, and all that we had to go on to judge his actions. And that story made him sound terrible. Mr. Biker isn't here to defend himself, yet he is the one who comes off as the better person in this story. A story that consists solely of MS's point of view.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 17, 2017, 12:51:51 PM
Sheath wanted us to join his Pity Party.  Sorry, that pinjata is already broken.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on May 17, 2017, 01:10:56 PM
Quote from: Baruch on May 17, 2017, 12:51:51 PM
Sheath wanted us to join his Pity Party.  Sorry, that pinjata is already broken.

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/dbf4b90d10ba2ef18f686aebc5878df6/tumblr_n56dfw1n181qc93syo3_500.gif)
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 17, 2017, 01:51:18 PM
Troll bin for sheath? Yay or nay?
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Mermaid on May 17, 2017, 03:29:22 PM
It would have been wrong, yes. This is precisely why I loathe the gun culture in this country. You diffused the situation by leaving the area, which is the exact right thing to do. Pulling a gun on him would have been the exact wrong thing to do. Perhaps he had his own gun. You just never know.

Using a firearm in anger is wrong.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 17, 2017, 07:26:30 PM
Most people who carry a gun for self-defense most likely have never tried to kill another human being. Until you do  you don't know if you can. It's more probably that the other person will stick that gun up your ass and clear your sinuses.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on May 18, 2017, 04:12:30 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 17, 2017, 07:26:30 PM
Most people who carry a gun for self-defense most likely have never tried to kill another human being. Until you do  you don't know if you can. It's more probably that the other person will stick that gun up your ass and clear your sinuses.

Dirty Harry fantasies, are best kept to FPS video games.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 02:53:54 AM
Quote from: MyelinSheath on May 15, 2017, 06:36:10 AM
Today, the worst incident I've ever had on the road occurred. I was trying merge into the left turning lane at a traffic light and there was a guy on a motorcycle (with his girlfriend on the back) about 2 car lengths behind me already in the left turning lane. I give my signal with ample time for him to see it and start aiming my nose in so as to indicate I'm trying to get in. The guy keeps going and doesn't let me in. I have to get over so I try my best ease in. We get stopped at the red light light, and the guy pulls right up beside my truck and screams at me, "I'm going to drag you out of that piece of shit truck and beat the shit out of you!" This angered me so I flipped him the bird and said "fuck you". So he proceeded to turn off his motorcycle and get off to come "drag me out my truck"
I guess. I darted off when he did this because the guy was obviously bigger than me and could have destroyed me. But I couldn't help but think afterwards that if I had had a gun I could have pulled out  and pointed at him when he tried to walk to my truck, he would have immediately become not such a tough guy anymore. Would I have been in the wrong had I done this? What if he was beating on my truck trying to get in and I shot him? Would I have committed and big crime? Or would it have been viewed as self defense? What if I had killed him? It's just hypothetical. Thanks.

You were in the wrong the instant you thought you had a right to the lane occupied by the motorcyclist merely by signalling your desire to change lanes.  Your request, your urgency to change lanes, and the motorcyclist's refusal to grant your desire are entirely irrelevant.  You stay in your lane until access to another is safe and granted.

Your thoughts of more violent response would subject you to jail time if acted upon, and if I were on a jury of such a case, I would put you there without much hesitation.

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. 

And if you are concerned that I have some bias about it, I don't personally like most motorcyclists.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Baruch on June 18, 2017, 09:11:25 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 02:53:54 AM
You were in the wrong the instant you thought you had a right to the lane occupied by the motorcyclist merely by signalling your desire to change lanes.  Your request, your urgency to change lanes, and the motorcyclist's refusal to grant your desire are entirely irrelevant.  You stay in your lane until access to another is safe and granted.

Your thoughts of more violent response would subject you to jail time if acted upon, and if I were on a jury of such a case, I would put you there without much hesitation.

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. 

And if you are concerned that I have some bias about it, I don't personally like most motorcyclists.

Nations are incompetent.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on June 19, 2017, 12:25:05 AM
Only use a gun if you have no choice. Id say keep pissing him off until the light is green and just go.
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Jason78 on June 19, 2017, 01:04:04 AM
Proper forward planning would have had you in the correct lane with plenty of time.   Drive competently, drive safely. 
Title: Re: Would I have gone to prison?
Post by: Cavebear on June 20, 2017, 02:49:54 AM
Rule #1 of dealing with road rage is to drive to the nearest police station or public mall.  Authorities and witnesses deter a lot of angry responses.