was looking for a list of all the errors in the Bible and found this ridiculous argument that is supposed to be logic
Here are 3 reasons the Bible can not err 1)god the father 2)god the son 3)god the holy spirit
1. god can not err, the Bible is the word of god => therefore the Bible can not err.
2. whatever Jesus affirmed as true is true. Jesus affirmed that the Bible is the word of god => therefore it is true that the Bible is the word of god.
3. the spirit of truth can not utter error. The Bible is the word spoken by the holy spirit. => therefore the Bible cannot err.
conclusion: the Bible can not err because 1) god the father 2) god the son 3)god the holy spirit => therefore an attack on the Bible is an attack on the authenticity of god the father, the authority of god the son, and the ministry of the holy spirit.
Nevermind the lack of logic in the arguments, can any of this argument be shown to be true without referencing the Bible. Somebody needs to remind this guy that the Bible was put together for the benefit of the Roman emperor and not for religous people....
Quote from: fencerider on April 12, 2017, 12:32:37 AMNevermind the lack of logic in the arguments, can any of this argument be shown to be true without referencing the Bible.
That's the beauty of it. It's a closed loop. The Bible is the word of God because Jesus is divine; Jesus is divine because the Bible says so. Nothing can contradict it because it doesn't rely on anything but itself.
Quote from: fencerider on April 12, 2017, 12:32:37 AM
was looking for a list of all the errors in the Bible and found this ridiculous argument that is supposed to be logic
Here are 3 reasons the Bible can not err 1)god the father 2)god the son 3)god the holy spirit
1. god can not err, the Bible is the word of god => therefore the Bible can not err.
2. whatever Jesus affirmed as true is true. Jesus affirmed that the Bible is the word of god => therefore it is true that the Bible is the word of god.
3. the spirit of truth can not utter error. The Bible is the word spoken by the holy spirit. => therefore the Bible cannot err.
conclusion: the Bible can not err because 1) god the father 2) god the son 3)god the holy spirit => therefore an attack on the Bible is an attack on the authenticity of god the father, the authority of god the son, and the ministry of the holy spirit.
Nevermind the lack of logic in the arguments, can any of this argument be shown to be true without referencing the Bible. Somebody needs to remind this guy that the Bible was put together for the benefit of the Roman emperor and not for religous people....
The lack of logic is the whole problem. Does rational thought mean nothing to you? I'm genuinely curious about people for whom thought means nothing and faith seems to be everything.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2017, 03:20:39 AM
The lack of logic is the whole problem. Does rational thought mean nothing to you? I'm genuinely curious about people for whom thought means nothing and faith seems to be everything.
Thinking is hard, intuition is easy. Unfortunately, intuition is often wrong. So is thinking ... but that is a different post ;-)
Should I use my left hand right hand for that? ;-)
Choosing thinking or intuition over the other is like trying to hop a mile on one leg.
It is easy enough for me to choose thinking.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:48:48 PMChoosing thinking or intuition over the other is like trying to hop a mile on one leg.
But both legs consist of thinking. Intuition's the tail.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 15, 2017, 05:51:30 PM
But both legs consist of thinking. Intuition's the tail.
Figures it would be right over the butt hole! lol
But seriously the forces of nature don't stop at the surface of our skins nor the surface of our minds, we are composed by them propelled by them and immersed in them. Only the quiet mind will perceive them.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:54:44 PM
Figures it would be right over the butt hole! lol
But seriously the forces of nature don't stop at the surface of our skins nor the surface of our minds, we are composed by them propelled by them and immersed in them. Only the quiet mind will perceive them.
How quiet have you been lately in this forum?
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:55:40 PM
How quiet have you been lately in this forum?
As quiet as a breath, a movement and a rest. I make it a point to rest long enough to look from other peoples paradigms.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:01:27 PM
As quiet as a breath, a movement and a rest. I make it a point to rest long enough to look from other peoples paradigms.
One moment does not count as a rest.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:03:23 PM
One moment does not count as a rest.
Depends on how much volition you have over the workings of your mind. Time is relative.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:07:29 PM
Depends on how much volition you have over the workings of your mind. Time is relative.
A fact of which I am all too well aware.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:54:44 PM
But seriously the forces of nature ......
Only the quiet mind will perceive them.
rrriiiggghhhhttt. Okay then. Whose up for some power crystals and universal sounding? All you have to do is imagine you think it and voila! It becomes true.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
rrriiiggghhhhttt. Okay then. Whose up for some power crystals and universal sounding? All you have to do is imagine you think it and voila! It becomes true.
Hardly! You have to stop thinking…for a long period of time. The universe does not speak English.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:18:47 PM
Hardly! You have to stop thinking…for a long period of time. The universe does not speak English.
Not thinking is precisely what too many people already do, and that is why we have found ourselves at our current predicament.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:48:48 PM
Should I use my left hand right hand for that? ;-)
Choosing thinking or intuition over the other is like trying to hop a mile on one leg.
Rabbi Hillel's Gentile student could do that ;-) This Gentile, he was a schmuck, was going around annoying the rabbis, by asking to be taught the Law ... but the Gentile was in a hurry ... he said "teach me, but you have to hurry, do it while I am standing on one foot"! He came to Rabbi Hillel and performed the same schtick ... Rabbi Hillel was wiser than the other rabbis, the head of the Sanhedrin ... he said to the Gentile ... "What is hateful to you, do not to do another, this is the whole Law, the rest is commentary".
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:51:12 PM
It is easy enough for me to choose thinking.
Thinking without a foundation, is like a house without an axiom.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
rrriiiggghhhhttt. Okay then. Whose up for some power crystals and universal sounding? All you have to do is imagine you think it and voila! It becomes true.
Only thought. If you think a thought, a thought is produced. What comes of that, remains to be seen. Can you hear your unconscious mind thinking?
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:18:47 PM
Hardly! You have to stop thinking…for a long period of time. The universe does not speak English.
Don't tell ape men, they need to quiet the monkey mind ;-))
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:22:29 PM
Not thinking is precisely what too many people already do, and that is why we have found ourselves at our current predicament.
The thinking I'm referring to is self talk. The internal verbal reinforcement of preferred assumptions.
It does not matter the content of the self talk. It's a self entraining process. The point of stillness/quiet is to get to direct perception of information without a paradigm filter of any kind.
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 08:50:31 PM
Don't tell ape men, they need to quiet the monkey mind ;-))
But but but....Bananas! *jump*
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
The thinking I'm referring to is self talk. The internal verbal reinforcement of preferred assumptions.
It does not matter the content of the self talk. It's a self entraining process. The point of stillness/quiet is to get to direct perception of information without a paradigm filter of any kind.
Yes, entraining, not entertaining ... and that is why people don't do it, they demand to be amused. I fulfill that by being self-amused.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 08:59:30 PM
But but but....Bananas! *jump*
For aitm (dog avatar) ... squirrel!
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 09:02:20 PM
Yes, entraining, not entertaining ... and that is why people don't do it, they demand to be amused. I fulfill that by being self-amused.
Funny that Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac…whose name means to laugh. But didnt have to kill him!
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 08:49:50 PM
Only thought. If you think a thought, a thought is produced. What comes of that, remains to be seen. Can you hear your unconscious mind thinking?
Exactly the idea. Imagining you can hear your mind thinking is rather comical. We think, we think we think, but to suggest we can "hear" our mind in the process of thinking may be a tad presumptuous. And then to suggest that we can hear our unconscious mind think? Well that is best left to defense attorneys.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:18:47 PM
Hardly! You have to stop thinking…for a long period of time. The universe does not speak English.
Indeed, the universe does not speak at all. We imagine it does, because some need to make themselves grand enough to be worthy to a universe...rather comical when one considers the magnitude of the universe and ...........us atoms.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 10:27:57 PM
Funny that Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac…whose name means to laugh. But didnt have to kill him!
A key part of the narrative from 500 BCE approximately. If you meet a god you like ... you haven't met G-d. Which is why I prefer the Bible to other fairy tales ... it has ars verite.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 11:48:58 PM
Indeed, the universe does not speak at all. We imagine it does, because some need to make themselves grand enough to be worthy to a universe...rather comical when one considers the magnitude of the universe and ...........us atoms.
What are you kidding me!?! We are awash in a sea of vibrating particles and fields, information is being transmitted in all directions at all times. Nature is a vast book and if you do not pay attention and descern it's laws, your sentence will end abruptly. The universe is a vast singing choir and orchestra. Puny human ears are perspective biased.
Circular reasoning.
God exists and he says the bible is true. The bible says god exists. Therefore god exists.
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 08:45:20 PM"What is hateful to you, do not to do another".
Confucius: 己所ä¸æ¬²ï¼Œå‹¿æ–½æ–¼äºº "What you do not want for yourself, do not impose onto others."
Quote from: Atheon on April 16, 2017, 03:04:04 PM
Confucius: 己所ä¸æ¬²ï¼Œå‹¿æ–½æ–¼äºº "What you do not want for yourself, do not impose onto others."
Yes, traditional Chinese are very Jewish ;-)
Quote from: Atheon on April 16, 2017, 03:01:28 PM
Circular reasoning.
God exists and he says the bible is true. The bible says god exists. Therefore god exists.
Historical non sequitur.
Man's experience, relationships and reports of The Diety does not begin or end with the Bible.
Oh and which Bible? The 66 book abridged version or the over 600 book ancient version?
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 03:06:07 PM
Historical non sequitur.
Man's experience, relationships and reports of The Diety does not begin or end with the Bible.
Oh and which Bible? The 66 book abridged version or the over 600 book ancient version?
Exactly. And each of those 600 books are fictional works.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 16, 2017, 04:27:07 PM
Exactly. And each of those 600 books are fictional works.
You assume.
The story that the sun rises and sets is a perspective fiction. The calendar days are a perspective fiction. From the perspective of the actual source of light, there has only ever been one day and sunrise and sunset are relative sides of the same circle of light around the earth.
In fact it's still early morning for the sun. High noon is red giant stage and we won't be around for sunset.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 04:39:12 PM
You assume.
The story that the sun rises and sets is a perspective fiction. The calendar days are a perspective fiction. From the perspective of the actual source of light, there has only ever been one day and sunrise and sunset are relative sides of the same circle of light around the earth.
In fact it's still early morning for the sun. High noon is red giant stage and we won't be around for sunset.
Of course. Humans invent many conventions to help with the communication process. It is true the sun have never 'risen'. It is a matter of perspective. On Earth though, it is simply a convention that is used as a sort of short hand. Of course the calendar and our clocks are simply conventions we use to track what we call time. These conventions are not fiction, for they are based on fact. We can observe the sun and learn or it's movements. The bible is a collection of writings from various authors--all of which are fictional. The bible cannot prove anything other than somebody wrote what has been included (and discarded depending upon which bible one is talking about, of course). All gods are fictional, even the one(s) in the bible. The bible is not a convention it is a fiction. god is not a convention, but a fiction.
Arithmetic is a matter of perspective too ... 10 + 10 = 100 (in binary).
"These conventions are not fiction, for they are based on fact." ... the Bible was written by Jews, and that is a fact. So the Bible is also baed on a fact. It is true that the British and Japanese convention of driving on the left hand side of the road is "sinister" ... because that is the Latin word for "left hand". The rest of us are "dexter" ... who is a boy genius with a sister named Didi.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
rrriiiggghhhhttt. Okay then. Whose up for some power crystals and universal sounding? All you have to do is imagine you think it and voila! It becomes true.
Yeah, let's find those dragonballs, LOL!
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
rrriiiggghhhhttt. Okay then. Whose up for some power crystals and universal sounding? All you have to do is imagine you think it and voila! It becomes true.
Maybe I'll wait, until Seth speaks...
(http://i0.wp.com/theconsciouscreationacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fractal-379999_640.png?resize=300%2C169)
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 05:20:34 PM
Maybe I'll wait, until Seth speaks...
(http://i0.wp.com/theconsciouscreationacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fractal-379999_640.png?resize=300%2C169)
Funny you should mention that ... automatic writing is perhaps no joke ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Roberts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_writing
Whether you articulate it as channeling or just as odd psychology ...
Oracles are automatic speaking ... which is what Muhammad was doing. Perhaps Ms Roberts was related to him, at least in psychological profile. See the following, particularly the bit at the bottom on neurology ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language ... the Quran is very formulaic, as is epic poetry. Speaking in tongues may be yet another aspect ... but where the language spoken is unintelligible to the speaker or the listener.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 17, 2017, 02:51:00 AM
Yeah, let's find those dragonballs, LOL!
Doncha be touchin mah dragonballs!
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 18, 2017, 06:42:18 PM
Doncha be touchin mah dragonballs!
Another bureaucratic project goes to Hell ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSvBnJugYrQ
first you find the power crystals. Then you go a little farther and you will find the dragon balls. From the place you find the dragon balls you go 3 blocks north. and there you will find god sitting on his porch. You must give him 2 crystals and a dragon ball....
Quote from: fencerider on April 20, 2017, 12:20:30 AM
first you find the power crystals. Then you go a little farther and you will find the dragon balls. From the place you find the dragon balls you go 3 blocks north. and there you will find god sitting on his porch. You must give him 2 crystals and a dragon ball....
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 20, 2017, 01:53:18 PM
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Atheists only meditate on how brilliant they are ;-)
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 20, 2017, 01:53:18 PM
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Ah, yes. Be still and know god. I still prefer 'let go and let god'.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 20, 2017, 08:26:11 PM
Ah, yes. Be still and know god. I still prefer 'let go and let god'.
Sorry, if G-d is reality (and as a pantheist like Ananta I think G-d is reality) ... then there is no way for G-d to let you go, or anyone else. Given that you are real.
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.
Quote from: fencerider on April 21, 2017, 01:33:17 AM
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.
Wow, I really thought "Pan" meant the little annoying satyr until you mentioned Neverland. Just goes to show how references matter.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 03:06:07 PMOh and which Bible? The 66 book abridged version or the over 600 book ancient version?
There's an unedited Director's Cut? Cool beans!
Quote from: fencerider on April 21, 2017, 01:33:17 AM
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.
You are never going to catch your wayward shadow that way, Peter.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 20, 2017, 01:53:18 PM
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Sounds like
geocaching (https://www.geocaching.com/) to me. There probably
is a lot of walking around involved, though.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 16, 2017, 06:15:46 PM
Of course the calendar and our clocks are simply conventions we use to track what we call time. These conventions are not fiction, for they are based on fact.
Not sure if I'm misreading this, but time is a real thing. If it weren't then the current theory of gravity would be false because there would not be correct; however, the time that we use to measure the universe very much just a convention that have applied to it. Time is relative after all, and the way that we use measure it in is doubly so.
Time is indeed relative. I recall reading (somewhere) that, due to the weak gravitational field there, deep inside a giant cosmic void the passage of time would be different than it is in the more dense regions of space, such that the universe would actually seem to be older than we perceive it to be. I don't remember just how much older, but it was quite a bit, I think.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 26, 2017, 07:47:17 PM
Time is indeed relative. I recall reading (somewhere) that, due to the weak gravitational field there, deep inside a giant cosmic void the passage of time would be different than it is in the more dense regions of space, such that the universe would actually seem to be older than we perceive it to be. I don't remember just how much older, but it was quite a bit, I think.
If you standing near a very heavy object in space such as a black hole, you would experience a shortening of time: so much so that time would actually speed up in a sense and you, basically just your atoms and fundamental particles at that point, would experience the end of the universe in what would appear to be a fraction of a second. That is one of the major parts of general relativity, the second most important part of the theory which is connected to the first is that as velocity increases, time will rapidly slow down. If an object were traveling at the speed of light since the big bang, it would appear as if the universe had just started and then all of a sudden it arrived at a destination 13.6 billion years later, without it actually experiencing that time.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on April 26, 2017, 07:36:08 PM
Not sure if I'm misreading this, but time is a real thing. If it weren't then the current theory of gravity would be false because there would not be correct; however, the time that we use to measure the universe very much just a convention that have applied to it. Time is relative after all, and the way that we use measure it in is doubly so.
I quite agree that time is a real thing. But is most useful when we can chop it up into bits and pieces we can understand. Why does an hour have 60 minutes--etc,? Just a convenience for us.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 26, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
Why does an hour have 60 minutes--etc,? Just a convenience for us.
This is why I said the way we measure time relative.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on April 26, 2017, 09:18:03 PM
This is why I said the way we measure time relative.
When people think time is real, they are thinking of Newtonian time, absolute time. In general, our sense of objective reality, is the idea that there are absolute things, usually quantifiable, that repetitive observation/experiment can agree on the value of (at a given point in space and time per relativity). What distinguishes Einstein from Newton, is that parenthetical ... for Newton, objectivity is the same at all points in space and at all times. That simply isn't true in actual observation and experiment, though it is almost so in most circumstances. Indirectly, because the observer is choosing the point in space and moment in time to make the measurement, the observer is interacting with reality in a non-objective way ... and in QM, the observer yet again is an unavoidable interference in our Newtonian sense of objectivity.
So if we mean by real, that which is real in spite of people ... then there is no such reality in human experience, because it is a self contradiction.
Quote from: Baruch on April 26, 2017, 11:10:13 PM
Indirectly, because the observer is choosing the point in space and moment in time to make the measurement, the observer is interacting with reality in a non-objective way ... and in QM, the observer yet again is an unavoidable interference in our Newtonian sense of objectivity.
So if we mean by real, that which is real in spite of people ... then there is no such reality in human experience, because it is a self contradiction.
You jumped from how time works to reality being false really fast. I like it.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on April 26, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
You jumped from how time works to reality being false really fast. I like it.
It is really hard to move from several argument points to a coherent picture that ties them into a system. But for most people here, they are unconsciously Newtonian and Hobbesian or Lockean (depending on who they stand on authoritarianism, though both are humanistic and materialist). They are 18th century Enlightenment .. not even ready for the 19th century.
Quote from: Baruch on April 27, 2017, 12:22:31 AM
They are 18th century Enlightenment .. not even ready for the 19th century.
Part of the reason that I went away for a while was to do homework for school. Another reason was to compile more coherent thoughts, and in doing so I've learned a lot.
According to many physicists, time does not exist. The past does not exist, the present is a fiction, and the future is only our imagined thoughts. Light motion defines spacetime and spacetime creates our perceptions of gravity and forward existence.
I think that is all a bunch of rubbish; my sense of there being a time-reality is too strong. The next great genius will reinterpret the universe so that time makes sense. Spacetime will go the way of epicycles and phlogiston.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 14, 2017, 07:47:17 AM
According to many physicists, time does not exist. The past does not exist, the present is a fiction, and the future is only our imagined thoughts. Light motion defines spacetime and spacetime creates our perceptions of gravity and forward existence.
Which physicists are you talking to? Almost every physicist I've met subscribes to eternalism, where past, present, and future exist with equal reality, organized by time, and our sensation of time passing comes from a somewhat subtle asymmetry between past and future. Every point always feels like its 'now' in that moment, and feels like the past for each and every future moment from that.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 14, 2017, 07:47:17 AM
I think that is all a bunch of rubbish; my sense of there being a time-reality is too strong. The next great genius will reinterpret the universe so that time makes sense. Spacetime will go the way of epicycles and phlogiston.
I don't think time has ever made sense except as the dimension against which changes happen. After all, how does time know when is 'now'? Furthermore, how does 'now' change with time when it defines which time is now? There would need to be a supertime against which time itself evolves and 'now' progresses, which would imply a hypertime against which supertime evolves, which implies a hyperhypertime, a hyperhyperhypertime, and up the infinite ladder. No, you need something to knock over the infinite ladder and eternalism is it. This is just another situation where intuition has lead us astray.
"how does time know" ... anthropomorphic much? Metaphors aren't rigorous or scientific ;-)
Quote from: fencerider on April 12, 2017, 12:32:37 AM
was looking for a list of all the errors in the Bible and found this ridiculous argument that is supposed to be logic
Here are 3 reasons the Bible can not err 1)god the father 2)god the son 3)god the holy spirit
1. god can not err, the Bible is the word of god => therefore the Bible can not err.
If that were the case, then:
1. God cannot err, God made man => therefore man cannot err.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 14, 2017, 04:26:11 PM
If that were the case, then:
1. God cannot err, God made man => therefore man cannot err.
But to err is human ;-) So therefore G-d is a goof.
Quote from: Baruch on June 14, 2017, 08:34:25 PM
But to err is human ;-) So therefore G-d is a goof.
shhhh.... if you keep talkin like that you're not gonna make money as a priest Baruch. and you're gonna ruin it for the rest of the priests. You're supposed to say god is perfect. You tell everyone god is a screw-up and we got no business
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 02:50:57 PM
We are awash in a sea of vibrating particles and fields, information is being transmitted in all directions at all times. Nature is a vast book and if you do not pay attention and descern it's laws, your sentence will end abruptly. The universe is a vast singing choir and orchestra. Puny human ears are perspective biased.
You get one point. The rest is just religion on its side.
Quote from: fencerider on June 17, 2017, 01:25:37 PM
shhhh.... if you keep talkin like that you're not gonna make money as a priest Baruch. and you're gonna ruin it for the rest of the priests. You're supposed to say god is perfect. You tell everyone god is a screw-up and we got no business
Religious Jews have been saying that for 450 years now (in Lurianic Kabbalah)... time Gentiles caught up. Of course it was Jews originally who claimed the G-d is perfect ... but subsequent Jewish history made that hard to believe. Greek pagans of course knew that Zeus messed up .. and messed around too!
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 14, 2017, 04:26:11 PM
If that were the case, then:
1. God cannot err, God made man => therefore man cannot err.
A theist could well argue that God deliberately made man to err and therefore need HIS forgiveness. A cruel jest to be sure, but arguable. Indeed, what other reason for religious beliefs could there be?
Quote from: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 05:00:51 AM
A theist could well argue that God deliberately made man to err and therefore need HIS forgiveness. A cruel jest to be sure, but arguable. Indeed, what other reason for religious beliefs could there be?
Most theologians argue that ... and I despise them for it.