Oh boy
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/06/us-launches-cruise-missile-strike-syria-after-chemical-weapons-attack/100142330/
QuotePresident Trump ordered a cruise missile strike against Syria Thursday, saying "no child of God should ever suffer" the horror of the chemical weapons attack Syria launched on its own people.
Trump ordered the strike against Syria early Friday local time in retaliation for the chemical weapons attack that killed 86 people on Tuesday, he said.
Let the nuclear war begin.
Quite the delayed reaction to the Syrian chemical attacks. And pointless as well since Russia is propping up Assad's regime, so this attack won't weaken the military enough for the rebels to achieve victory. Such actions will almost certainly raise tensions with Russia. Pointless provocation.
It's hard to figure out much of any positives at all from this and a lot of negatives come readily to mind. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Vietnam II, anyone?
Here's the pickle in the pudding.... Assad didn't start out completely messed up. Russia has a big interest in helping Syria as much as possible.
The biggest reserve of natural gas is under the Black Sea. Iran has been extracting it on the north side and running it through a pipe to Russia. Russia uses some of the natural gas and sells the rest to Europe. It is a critical part of financing the Russian economy; and a big piece of Iran's economy. The gulf states made a plan to extract gas on the south side and run a pipe to Europe through the gulf states and Syria to Europe. All of the states on the route agreed to the plan except Syria because Assad was on friendly terms with Russia. The gulf states offered to pay the U.S. the total cost of the war if Obama invaded Syria (must be a lot of money in that gas). If the gas pipe through Syria is finished Russia will suffer. On the other side, if the pipe goes through American oil men will be making a bigger profit.
I wonder why the gulf states didnt make a route for the pipe that doesnt go through Syria when they found out Syria didnt want to play.
Quote from: fencerider on April 07, 2017, 02:55:07 AM
Here's the pickle in the pudding.... Assad didn't start out completely messed up. Russia has a big interest in helping Syria as much as possible.
The biggest reserve of natural gas is under the Black Sea. Iran has been extracting it on the north side and running it through a pipe to Russia. Russia uses some of the natural gas and sells the rest to Europe. It is a critical part of financing the Russian economy; and a big piece of Iran's economy. The gulf states made a plan to extract gas on the south side and run a pipe to Europe through the gulf states and Syria to Europe. All of the states on the route agreed to the plan except Syria because Assad was on friendly terms with Russia. The gulf states offered to pay the U.S. the total cost of the war if Obama invaded Syria (must be a lot of money in that gas). If the gas pipe through Syria is finished Russia will suffer. On the other side, if the pipe goes through American oil men will be making a bigger profit.
I wonder why the gulf states didnt make a route for the pipe that doesnt go through Syria when they found out Syria didnt want to play.
Persian Gulf. The Black Sea story is a different story.
This shouldn't be a surprise. Obama never finished the war in the Middle East. Trump to the rescue. If we end up in nuclear exchange with Russia, it will be Obama's fault.
well when people thought Trump and Putinpie were best of friends, this might sink that battleship.
Though TJ Kirk raised a point in his video on it, Assads bene doing this shit to his people for years now, trump even knew about the gas attack and didn't respond, not until pictures of the gas attack came to him, and he commissioned swift action after seeing the pictures.
Think that fear of having a crazy guy with his finger on the launch codes have just been proven more valid then people thought.
Quote from: SGOS on April 07, 2017, 07:30:22 AM
This shouldn't be a surprise. Obama never finished the war in the Middle East. Trump to the rescue. If we end up in nuclear exchange with Russia, it will be Obama's fault.
In 2013 T.rump said Obama should have gone to Congress first. Today that's still true, just that T.rump isn't Obama, so he doesn't have to pay by the rules he expects other people to follow.
Time line begins:
Trump elected..... Trump attacks Assad military.... Putin calls off non-interference agreement with US..............
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-condemns-us-missile-strike-on-syria/2017/04/07/c81ea12a-1b4e-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html?utm_term=.f92b6b6d50f5
God dammit. I'll see you guys when the draft starts...
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 07, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
In 2013 T.rump said Obama should have gone to Congress first. Today that's still true, just that T.rump isn't Obama, so he doesn't have to pay by the rules he expects other people to follow.
What? Hypocrisy in government??? I can't believe it.
OH CRAP!
Anyone got any recommendations as to where I can watch the first barrage of nuclear explosions? I need to at least be able to finish a bottle of whiskey before I get consumed.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 07, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Anyone got any recommendations as to where I can watch the first barrage of nuclear explosions? I need to at least be able to finish a bottle of whiskey before I get consumed.
Come over to my place, I live in Dallas, Nuke central.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on April 07, 2017, 10:57:26 AM
Come over to my place, I live in Dallas, Nuke central.
Ok but I get the bed, you can sleep on the couch.
HEY LOOK AT THIS BIG DISTRACTING EXPLOSION OVER HERE!!!1!
Yes, I really do think Asshole would risk World War III if he thought it would take some of the negative coverage off him.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 07, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Anyone got any recommendations as to where I can watch the first barrage of nuclear explosions? I need to at least be able to finish a bottle of whiskey before I get consumed.
Ground zero would be my first choice, but I don't know how good Russia is at hitting ground zero right on the nose. If they don't get it right on, you might just get thrown off your chair, end up with a broken arm, and some severe burns, while wandering around in the wreckage looking for your whiskey bottle.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 07, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Anyone got any recommendations as to where I can watch the first barrage of nuclear explosions? I need to at least be able to finish a bottle of whiskey before I get consumed.
My dream is to watch ISIS from ISS.
But Hellary is a WARMONGAR! And OBOMBER is a BOMBER!! Voet for TMURP! He'll nevar bom enywun!!!!!!!!! He's a piecefull Repubiclan!!
Quote from: SGOS on April 07, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
Time line begins:
Trump elected..... Trump attacks Assad military.... Putin calls off non-interference agreement with US..............
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-condemns-us-missile-strike-on-syria/2017/04/07/c81ea12a-1b4e-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html?utm_term=.f92b6b6d50f5
Well, that's just great. What happens when there's an incident between one of our planes and one of their planes? (both ostensibly fighting ISIS in Syria)
Quote from: Atheon on April 07, 2017, 12:21:03 PM
But Hellary is a WARMONGAR! And OBOMBER is a BOMBER!! Voet for TMURP! He'll nevar bom enywun!!!!!!!!! He's a piecefull Repubiclan!!
Murderers ... from George Washington on down.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 12:50:23 PM
Well, that's just great. What happens when there's an incident between one of our planes and one of their planes? (both ostensibly fighting ISIS in Syria)
Syria smartly pulled our authorization to fly there. Next Israeli or American plane over Syria, will get lit up.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 07, 2017, 09:43:18 AM
God dammit. I'll see you guys when the draft starts...
They don't draft crispy critters ... not even the Marines will take them ;-)
Quote from: Munch on April 07, 2017, 07:31:00 AM
well when people thought Trump and Putinpie were best of friends, this might sink that battleship.
Though TJ Kirk raised a point in his video on it, Assads bene doing this shit to his people for years now, trump even knew about the gas attack and didn't respond, not until pictures of the gas attack came to him, and he commissioned swift action after seeing the pictures.
Think that fear of having a crazy guy with his finger on the launch codes have just been proven more valid then people thought.
Don't worry. TV is real, and we already know how to handle this ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 07, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Anyone got any recommendations as to where I can watch the first barrage of nuclear explosions? I need to at least be able to finish a bottle of whiskey before I get consumed.
You won't have much time to watch once it starts ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9hL93HPMI
RE: Syria
I believe we must always support losing side, until:
1) an equilibrium is achieved
2) all sides are drained
No capable side with the upper hand is going to voluntarily sit at negotiation table.
Whether Trump's action will do that, that remains to be seen. My personal assessment is that it's just for show.
Quote from: fencerider on April 07, 2017, 02:55:07 AM
Here's the pickle in the pudding.... Assad didn't start out completely messed up. Russia has a big interest in helping Syria as much as possible.
The biggest reserve of natural gas is under the Black Sea. Iran has been extracting it on the north side and running it through a pipe to Russia. Russia uses some of the natural gas and sells the rest to Europe. It is a critical part of financing the Russian economy; and a big piece of Iran's economy. The gulf states made a plan to extract gas on the south side and run a pipe to Europe through the gulf states and Syria to Europe. All of the states on the route agreed to the plan except Syria because Assad was on friendly terms with Russia. The gulf states offered to pay the U.S. the total cost of the war if Obama invaded Syria (must be a lot of money in that gas). If the gas pipe through Syria is finished Russia will suffer. On the other side, if the pipe goes through American oil men will be making a bigger profit.
I wonder why the gulf states didnt make a route for the pipe that doesnt go through Syria when they found out Syria didnt want to play.
Did Iraq agree? I somehow doubt that.
Also, Kurdistan is a mountainous region, so it probably had to do with some practical considerations.
What's important, and never forget is the popularity of the president at home. He could get caught on live TV fucking a 4 year old, but start a war and it's a wash.
I'm finding myself in agreement almost with some of the alt-right conspiracy nuts about the nerve gas thing just being ginned up as an excuse to prop up his approval rating and distract from all the other bullshit being piled up.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 07, 2017, 09:43:18 AM
God dammit. I'll see you guys when the draft starts...
Hah. Too fat and unhealty to join. I WIN!
Draconic Aiur's post apocalypse job title...
Rations
Quote from: Atheon on April 07, 2017, 12:21:03 PM
But Hellary is a WARMONGAR! And OBOMBER is a BOMBER!! Voet for TMURP! He'll nevar bom enywun!!!!!!!!! He's a piecefull Repubiclan!!
I can't believe people bought into that either. I predicted that Pence would be the real President for the most part and that the US would still be tough with Russia. Either Pence is the real President, or Trump decided to do this because 80 % of what the media and Democrats talk about is Trump being Russia's puppet (which again has always been dumb as shit, and Democrats and the media now look like absolute fools). I knew Trump would be a very good friend to Al Qaeda, just like Barack Obama was and Hillary would have been.
At least Trump waited for a second (likely) false flag gas attack before he did this. Hillary said she would have went in based on a previous false flag, and would have taken out not only one of the airfields, but all of them.
QuoteDonald Trump’s decision to attack a Syrian regime airbase in Homs (without Congressional approval) last night is turning out to be a big mistake.
According to the Independent, Russia â€" a country that aggressively disagreed with Trump’s move â€" has just made a chilling announcement in retaliation. Thanks to Trump’s carelessness, U.S.-Russia relations will now become more tense than ever, as the Russian Foreign Ministry has decided to suspend a memorandum with America that coordinated peaceful military relations between the two countries.
http://newcenturytimes.com/2017/04/07/russia-just-responded-to-trumps-attack-on-syria-retaliates-in-the-most-chilling-way-details/
Don't you guys know how these conversations go?
Trump: Vlad! Vladimir old bestest buddy of mine..I'm looking like dog shit over here and people are dropping like flies from positions. I need to look like the biggest prick on the planet somehow!
Putin: Fuck you Donna..That's MY FUCKING job..but I'll tell you what i do..I sneak in some attackish thing, you know, kill a few babies, a few women and shit.. You bomb some base, but don't do too much because we're going to redecorate it anyway. Just knock down some old buildings and shit. I pretend to be mad at you and you look like tough guy for a few days.
Trump: Aww gee Vladdy.. You're a real chum!
Putin: No problem, but I want Urkranian whores back..
The right wing conspiracy nuts are going bat shit crazy over this..with hashtag #SyrianHoax.. I think they're on to something. Trump IS batshit crazy with them..
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 07, 2017, 03:46:10 PMAt least Trump waited for a second (likely) false flag gas attack before he did this.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/07/unproven-online-theories-doubting-syrian-gas-attac/
Quote from: Sorginak on April 07, 2017, 05:28:34 PM
http://newcenturytimes.com/2017/04/07/russia-just-responded-to-trumps-attack-on-syria-retaliates-in-the-most-chilling-way-details/
Honestly, who the fuck cares.
(http://i.imgur.com/CegLlEi.jpg)
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 06:04:14 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/07/unproven-online-theories-doubting-syrian-gas-attac/
There's only one fact that gives merit to
questioning whether Assad attacked his people with chemical weapons:
- Assad -- backed by Russia, Iran, and Shia militias -- has been recording victory after victory in Syria, and is in control of vast majority of Syria's most important urban centers, so why would he risk US military intervention?
Not conclusive. Assad could've used weapons in spite of that.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 06:04:14 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/07/unproven-online-theories-doubting-syrian-gas-attac/
I read it and didn't see anything proving that Assad did it. I never claimed that it was a hoax. You can't give me any logical reason Assad would choose to do something so suicidal when he was winning, and you can't prove that he did it, so I'm going to remain very skeptical of the official story until I'm given a good enough reason to accept that Assad really did it.
Even I think this entire Assad incident is more about taking pressure off other areas regarding Trump in order for people be be gullible enough to like him for taking action against an atrocity.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 07, 2017, 06:59:22 PMyou can't prove that he did it, so I'm going to remain very skeptical of the official story until I'm given a good enough reason to accept that Assad really did it.
False flag as the default conclusion, which apparently first must disproved before other explanations are viable. Nice logic there.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 07:16:45 PM
False flag as the default conclusion, which apparently first must disproved before other explanations are viable. Nice logic there.
Apparently the fact that al-Assad is a despotic dictator responsible for deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of his own people doesn't even factor into the equation.
Quote from: Sylar on April 07, 2017, 01:43:39 PM
RE: Syria
I believe we must always support losing side, until:
1) an equilibrium is achieved
2) all sides are drained
No capable side with the upper hand is going to voluntarily sit at negotiation table.
Whether Trump's action will do that, that remains to be seen. My personal assessment is that it's just for show.
That is the old British foreign policy. Exhaustive conflict between potential opponents ... particular Germany vs France.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 07:16:45 PM
False flag as the default conclusion, which apparently first must disproved before other explanations are viable. Nice logic there.
In the absence of sufficient evidence, I lean toward what I think is more logical. Do you not do the same thing? You think it's far more likely that Assad did it, right? Or are you neutral about it and waiting for the evidence to come in? If not, you are doing the same thing I am. Speculating based on the little that we know at the moment.
With the "special" one in charge I can see why everything else is being cut for military spending. We're gonna need it.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 07, 2017, 07:55:56 PM
In the absence of sufficient evidence, I lean toward what I think is more logical.
Logical? Haha, no. You go with whatever conspiratard theory is floating around in the alt-news toilet that day. And whenever something major happens, the go-to explanation is that it's a false flag ploy by [insert anyone related to the event] in order to [insert literally anything here].
QuoteYou think it's far more likely that Assad did it, right? Or are you neutral about it and waiting for the evidence to come in? If not, you are doing the same thing I am. Speculating based on the little that we know at the moment.
I take current events at face value unless there's compelling evidence to the contrary, as any sane person does. The burden of proof is on you, bud. And speculation =/= evidence.
False flags would require an insane amount of secrecy; something that no longer exists. This idea that everything is a false flag operation is the same branch of looney as the Illuminati running the world or that the moon landing was fake. It, at a very basic level, makes some sense... until you actually spend more than 2 minutes thinking about the logistics of it and it all falls apart.
And there is nothing speculative about a man that is butchering his people using chemical weapons against them, or at least someone under his command authorizing the use of them. War criminals sometimes commit war crimes.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 07, 2017, 09:45:17 PMAnd there is nothing speculative about a man that is butchering his people using chemical weapons against them, or at least someone under his command authorizing the use of them. War criminals sometimes commit war crimes.
Yeah, not terribly abnormal considering that chemical weapons have been used repeatedly in this conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war).
naaa no false flag. Trump doesn't have the brains for it, and the rest of the administration is completely disorganized.
Well apparently, the attack was more symbolic than real. The airport is working just fine.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2017, 11:19:50 PM
Well apparently, the attack was more symbolic than real. The airport is working just fine.
According to reports, the strike hit various aircraft, aircraft shelters, fuel tankers, ammo storage, defense systems, and radar equipment - but the runway is still operational. Allegedly, the strike is meant to deter any future use of chemical weapons, but it's not like that's the only airbase and of course, chemical weapons can be deployed through other means. For example, the 2013 Ghouta chemical weapon attacks were reportedly accomplished with unguided surface-to-surface rockets.
I very much doubt the Syrian military's ability to wage chemical attacks has been seriously hampered, especially given the influx of Russian hardware. Like you said, more symbolic than real.
Well apparently that airbase was protecting people in the region from jihadist rebels invading them, so their fucked now. And given the number of deaths a jihadist takeover will cause, trumps speech about little babies is just all the more entertaining given more will die now just from his display of "look how big our military cock size is"
Quote from: Munch on April 08, 2017, 04:47:18 AM
Well apparently that airbase was protecting people in the region from jihadist rebels invading them, so their fucked now. And given the number of deaths a jihadist takeover will cause, trumps speech about little babies is just all the more entertaining given more will die now just from his display of "look how big our military cock size is"
Protecting a Christian area ... yes, US policy since 2001 is to radicalize the region, empower Muslim fundies, support SA foreign policy (they are crypto-Israel supporters). This is why so many ancient villages of minority people have been displaced or massacred over the past few years, and secular regimes replaced with theocratic ones. The US has done more damage to ME Christians, than anyone, since the Mongol invasion.
Quote from: Munch on April 08, 2017, 04:47:18 AM
Well apparently that airbase was protecting people in the region from jihadist rebels invading them, so their fucked now. And given the number of deaths a jihadist takeover will cause, trumps speech about little babies is just all the more entertaining given more will die now just from his display of "look how big our military cock size is"
His concern about little babies' suffering rings pretty hollow considering his stance towards Syrian war refugees.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 08, 2017, 10:38:54 AM
His concern about little babies' suffering rings pretty hollow considering his stance towards Syrian war refugees.
Philanthropic plutocrats could always demonstrate sincerity, by giving all their money away (and not into a charitable trust like the Gates family, Clinton family, Obama family). A tax dodge isn't charity. A charity used to mask massive political corruption isn't charity. A charity used to raise funds to mess with the President who came after you isn't charity.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 07, 2017, 09:45:17 PM
False flags would require an insane amount of secrecy; something that no longer exists. This idea that everything is a false flag operation is the same branch of looney as the Illuminati running the world or that the moon landing was fake. It, at a very basic level, makes some sense... until you actually spend more than 2 minutes thinking about the logistics of it and it all falls apart.
And there is nothing speculative about a man that is butchering his people using chemical weapons against them, or at least someone under his command authorizing the use of them. War criminals sometimes commit war crimes.
It's impossible to keep a secret for a whole week? You have to give the truth time to come out. I'm not sure you understand what I mean by false flag either. That doesn't have to mean that it was all staged or fake or set up by the CIA. It can simply mean that maybe the Syrian army struck a building not knowing that the rebels were storing chemical weapons there or something like that, and then Assad is blamed for purposely gassing people before any real investigation takes place. You don't have evidence showing that Assad did it, so that is the definition of speculation.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 07, 2017, 09:41:38 PM
Logical? Haha, no. You go with whatever conspiratard theory is floating around in the alt-news toilet that day. And whenever something major happens, the go-to explanation is that it's a false flag ploy by [insert anyone related to the event] in order to [insert literally anything here].
I take current events at face value unless there's compelling evidence to the contrary, as any sane person does. The burden of proof is on you, bud. And speculation =/= evidence.
Nope. I don't go with whatever conspiracy is out there. I don't highly doubt every terrorist attack, because there are two things with those that are missing here. Evidence that the alleged person did the attack, and motive. You have absolutely nothing to show that Assad did it. He's not some suicidal religious fanatic. He's a brilliant man who was getting close to victory. The "official story" peddled by the MSM makes less than zero sense, but I'll be glad to accept that Assad did it if that is eventually shown to be the case.
The Russians are evil. The Syrians are evil. Kill them all ... USA manifest destiny (per PNAC of 1990s).
And by the way, we've also got the U.S. Navy strike group led by the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier making its way towards the Korean peninsula Sunday “to maintain readinessâ€..
Imagine that. Trump, who said we need to focus on America first instead of starting wars around the world getting ready to start wars around the world. Whodda thunk it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-navy-sends-strike-group-toward-korean-peninsula/2017/04/09/0c00909c-1cfd-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_nkorea-515am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e93343ede604
Remember back in the good old days when Al Queda was the worst of the worst of the worst? Imagine if we ever actually have to confront the real worst of the worst of the worst..
Oh wait..It's in the white house or is it Mara Largo?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 09, 2017, 12:15:14 PM
Remember back in the good old days when Al Queda was the worst of the worst of the worst? Imagine if we ever actually have to confront the real worst of the worst of the worst..
Oh wait..It's in the white house or is it Mara Largo?
Go Navy! Unfortunately the new survivable robot vessels aren't yet deployed in any number. One has to have a considerable stand-off distance now to attack Asia, maybe 1000 miles? We might not even have to steam out of Pearl Harbor, since our weapons have similar reach.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
And by the way, we've also got the U.S. Navy strike group led by the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier making its way towards the Korean peninsula Sunday “to maintain readinessâ€..
Imagine that. Trump, who said we need to focus on America first instead of starting wars around the world getting ready to start wars around the world. Whodda thunk it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-navy-sends-strike-group-toward-korean-peninsula/2017/04/09/0c00909c-1cfd-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_nkorea-515am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e93343ede604
Maybe he is focusing on America, and is just letting the military do whatever.
...wait, that would actually be worse.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 07, 2017, 03:26:36 PM
Draconic Aiur's post apocalypse job title...
Rations
not if i take yall 1st
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 09, 2017, 12:15:14 PM
Remember back in the good old days when Al Queda was the worst of the worst of the worst? Imagine if we ever actually have to confront the real worst of the worst of the worst..
Oh wait..It's in the white house or is it Mara Largo?
Depends on whether it's the weekend or not.
70yrs old and still trying to show off his codpiece....
They say his rating is already down to 35%. and he might just try something stupid to improve his ratings. Oh wait! They said that last week.
Quote from: fencerider on April 09, 2017, 11:05:10 PM
70yrs old and still trying to show off his codpiece....
They say his rating is already down to 35%. and he might just try something stupid to improve his ratings. Oh wait! They said that last week.
It took GW 6 years to get to that point. But there seems to be a built in resistance to going lower than 25%, where the idiots will still approve even if convicted of murdering his mother. I consider 25% as rock bottom. Not a good place for a president to be. 35%? No problem. You're right where you should be. Higher than that, something's wrong.
Quote from: SGOS on April 10, 2017, 09:40:59 AM
It took GW 6 years to get to that point. But there seems to be a built in resistance to going lower than 25%, where the idiots will still approve even if convicted of murdering his mother. I consider 25% as rock bottom. Not a good place for a president to be. 35%? No problem. You're right where you should be. Higher than that, something's wrong.
George H W had a high rating in 1991, after his little war, where he let Saddam off the hook. I don't count on popularity for nothing.
Quote from: Baruch on April 10, 2017, 01:18:16 PM
George H W had a high rating in 1991, after his little war, where he let Saddam off the hook. I don't count on popularity for nothing.
I remember that, and at the time was disappointed that he didn't take the next superficially obvious step. That is until he explained that the goal set by UN resolution was only to remove Saddam from Kuwait, and that further steps would take a large toll on American lives. That satisfied me. In hindsight, this was probably politically incorrect. Americans were wound up and heady wanting to kick some serious ass, a political advantage that helped GW sell the invasion 10 years later, I think.
Another thing that affected me, and possibly others was that when Scott Ritter, head of the UN weapons inspection team from 1991 to 1998 announced that they were discontinuing a search for further weapons. This got spun as stopping inspections because Iraq would not cooperate (this happened shortly after HW was out of office), which I thought was a dumb reason for discontinuing inspections. Years later Ritter explained that inspections ended because he was sure all of Saddam's weapons had been destroyed and accounted for. I'm guessing for others the original spin was still believed, and helped to feed the WMD claims by the GW administration. But this is speculation on my part. I can only guess at the motivations of the public.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/04/michael-luders-on-the-propaganda-war-in-syria-an-incredibly-dirty-geopolitical-game/#more-42669
Quote from: pr126 on April 11, 2017, 05:50:05 AM
http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/04/michael-luders-on-the-propaganda-war-in-syria-an-incredibly-dirty-geopolitical-game/#more-42669
There is so much BS now, I actually do love Big Brother!
In the US, that blood thirsty warmonger Howard Dean, Democrat Liberal ... has called for the expulsion of Rep Tulsi Gabbard, for not supporting the Matrix view on Syria. And you thought it was only John McCain ;-) It was Democrat Liberals, who got us into Vietnam, and Korea, and WW II, and WW I. Some things haven't changed in the last century.
"Again, to our very foolish leader, do not attack Syria. If you do many very bad things will happen and from that fight the U.S. gets nothing."
â€" Trump, 9/5/13
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 11, 2017, 11:26:35 AM
"Again, to our very foolish leader, do not attack Syria. If you do many very bad things will happen and from that fight the U.S. gets nothing."
â€" Trump, 9/5/13
Trump is a brand ... he says what he is paid to say. In office he clearly has neo-con handlers now. Every President must be a war president ... in particular ... make war on the poor, here and abroad. Just like Obama.
Quote from: SGOS on April 10, 2017, 02:35:31 PM
I remember that, and at the time was disappointed that he didn't take the next superficially obvious step. That is until he explained that the goal set by UN resolution was only to remove Saddam from Kuwait, and that further steps would take a large toll on American lives. That satisfied me. In hindsight, this was probably politically incorrect. Americans were wound up and heady wanting to kick some serious ass, a political advantage that helped GW sell the invasion 10 years later, I think.
Another thing that affected me, and possibly others was that when Scott Ritter, head of the UN weapons inspection team from 1991 to 1998 announced that they were discontinuing a search for further weapons. This got spun as stopping inspections because Iraq would not cooperate (this happened shortly after HW was out of office), which I thought was a dumb reason for discontinuing inspections. Years later Ritter explained that inspections ended because he was sure all of Saddam's weapons had been destroyed and accounted for. I'm guessing for others the original spin was still believed, and helped to feed the WMD claims by the GW administration. But this is speculation on my part. I can only guess at the motivations of the public.
Let me first grant that hindsight is 20/20, but I do sometimes wonder if we might have been better served going for regime change back then, while the Iraqi army was folding like a house of cards and units were surrendering to news crews. I will admit right now that had that occurred then, I would have almost certainly opposed it as an unnecessarily imperialistic act on our part,
but...
...I think it would have almost certainly meant that Dubya would not have been elected president, certainly not in 2001, and very probably not at any time after that. It also means you don't get the clusterfuck that Dubya's ill-planned invasion turned Iraq into, because Bush Sr was rather more detail-oriented than his spawn -- to say nothing of Senior having the Rolodex from Hell and the ability to use his vast network of personal connections to both gather support and cushion the damage.
But, hindsight and guesswork. Still, the chance of Dumbass never having been president in the first place sounds monumentally appealing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU2TapgWl-A&list=PLlxzTYKtDmmRJJDN_Q1Ja0aEs41_DDU1G&spfreload=10
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 08, 2017, 10:38:54 AM
His concern about little babies' suffering rings pretty hollow considering his stance towards Syrian war refugees.
If Trump was really concerned, he would accept refugees and help them. He mainly just had to "show strength". And a pretty lame response if that was his intent. The Syrian planes were bombing the populace the next day.
Reports today suggested the Trump attack damaged 20% of the Syrian Air Force. Why 20%. 100% or nothing.
And if we really want to bother Assad, how about a few right into his bedroom?
Quote from: trdsf on April 11, 2017, 11:02:24 PM
Let me first grant that hindsight is 20/20, but I do sometimes wonder if we might have been better served going for regime change back then, while the Iraqi army was folding like a house of cards and units were surrendering to news crews.
Had we continued, I'm guessing HW would have gotten even more support than his son, probably up near 90% approval compared to the 2/3 that George had for his invasion, making it highly politically correct to invade at that time. We would have been invading as a consequence of Saddam's highly offensive behavior in Kuwait, and would have something solid to point to as a moral justification. But lets set aside the value of political correctness and emotional satisfaction and consider practical outcomes.
When GW invaded, Saddam had been beaten into compliance 10 years earlier, and was not posing a threat to even his weakest neighbors. OK he did pose threats to targeted populations of opposition within Iraq, just as Assad and other Mideast dictators. But Bush Senior had contained Saddam, not perfectly by any means, but in a way which was highly geopolitically effective, and more productive than the power vacuum and the ensuing chaos left behind by his son.
From a political approval perspective, an invasion by HW would have been more easily justified, but from a practical standpoint, not invading and forced compliance was probably a more effective way of reducing Mideast instability, making the practical outcome more effective than a more emotionally based response to our own moral outrage.
The biggest unknown for me is not knowing if we would be in this clusterfuck today if we had acted differently in either the HW Administration or the GW Administration. It's easy to say, "This could have been avoided," but no one really knows that. It might be that our ability to punish and control will never match the inertia of Mideastern culture.
Don't forget, GHW told the Shites and Kurds to revolt after the armistice in 1991, telling them we would support them. And then we didn't. We wanted Saddam to kill the Kurds (anti Turkey) and the Shites (pro Iran). Moral corruption is a cess pool, the biggest chunks float to the top. Of course we also told Saddam that we wouldn't intervene in Kuwait, and then did after he thought he understood our "green light". We were using Saddam against SA, but just to frighten them, not to destroy them. And no need to destroy Saddam, because he might prove useful later (like his war against Iran, that we helped him with, supplying gas warfare technology). And we still want to go into a much larger and more populous country (Iran) and Shi'ite all over them.
And what "Shock and Awe" did they have these months later?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 11, 2017, 05:06:25 PM
And what "Shock and Awe" did they have these months later?
Jeebus! You keep resurrecting dead strings. Does Martha and Mary know?
Quote from: Baruch on October 11, 2017, 08:40:42 PM
Jeebus! You keep resurrecting dead strings. Does Martha and Mary know?
I was bored. And it seemed something that could stand a bit more discussion...
Hi Cavebear, do you have a problem with insomnia?
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 04:11:13 AM
Hi Cavebear, do you have a problem with insomnia?
No, insomnia works just fine for me. 36 hours up, 14 hours in bed. The cats hate the schedule though...
Well in this case, not worth losing any sleep over it.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 04:25:06 AM
Well in this case, not worth losing any sleep over it.
And what are YOU doing up at this hour? In my case, I really don't live on a 24 hour schedule. I struggled with time all my life, in college, and the 30 years of my career. I managed it. On retirement, free of time-demands, I found my true natural cycle. 36/14.
I live in the UK, here it is 09:36 AM.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 04:36:51 AM
I live in the UK, here it is 09:36 AM.
Ah. See, this is the dead time in US ET. I'm up and awake and everyone else (mostly) is gone to bed. At it seems normal to me to be awake now. It is really quite maddening sometimes.
And very quiet too.
I am usually up at 4 AM gmt. I too have some sleep problem.
I guess it is to do with age.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 04:49:08 AM
And very quiet too.
I am usually up at 4 AM gmt. I too have some sleep problem.
I guess it is to do with age.
Could be. I've always been like that though.
Anyway, just done the final shaping of the sourdough loaf, ready for the baking in about an hour.
I make one loaf a week.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:00:05 AM
Anyway, just done the final shaping of the sourdough loaf, ready for the baking in about an hour.
I make one loaf a week.
Have you tried a loaf with beer instead of water and add some garlic and onion powder and oregano to it? It makes a GREAT loaf.
No, just the plain loaf with 20% whole meal flour.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:04:50 AM
No, just the plain loaf with 20% whole meal flour.
I use bread machine flour for the high gluten. And seriously, go make a loaf with beer, oinion and garlic powder and a heaping tablespoo of oregano and tell me it isn't better! You never know until you try.
My Dad used to tell me I made the best bread he ever tasted and I told him my recipe. Well, he didn't want to use beer, or garlic powder or oregano. And then he said my recipe wasn't "all that good" .
LOL!
I am not that adventurous with my baking.
If I don’t freeze half of the loaf, it gets mouldy by the the week is up.
With diabetes I have to be low on carbohydrates.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:15:19 AM
I am not that adventurous with my baking.
If I don’t freeze half of the loaf, it gets mouldy by the the week is up.
With diabetes I have to be low on carbohydrates.
I always cut my loaf in half too and freeze one.
TRY MY RECIPE AND then TELL ME YOU DON'T LIKE IT!
Oregano and beer sounds good. But I would hold back on garlic powder.
Yes, really.
But here is a thing. When you get older your hearing, vision, smell and taste are down to less than half.
Hearing and vision can be helped. Smell and taste not.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:19:56 AM
Oregano and beer sounds good. But I would hold back on garlic powder.
Yes, really.
But here is a thing. When you get older your hearing, vision, smell and taste are down to less than half.
OK, go with the beer instead of water. And oregano is good at any age. But you keep arguing about. Just make one my way and see if you like it!
Geez...
If you insist. But not today.
And no garlic powder. I wouldn’t notice it anyway.
Are you using dry or fresh herbs?
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:32:02 AM
If you insist. But not today.
And no garlic powder. I wouldn’t notice it anyway.
Are you using dry or fresh herbs?
Onion and garlic POWDER. Dried oregano. Use fresh if you have it. I don't have it. And my next loaf will have fresh garlic and onion just to see if there is a difference. I"LL try something new.
Try black olives and rosemary focaccia with olive oil. Eat when it is stlii bit warm.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 05:50:56 AM
Try black olives and rosemary focaccia with olive oil. Eat when it is stlii bit warm.
I've had that. Where I worked, there would sometimes come word that the "foccacchia guy" was in theagency acriss the street. We all rushed over to get some.
OK, I'll try to make that. And You make MY loaf MY way.
I found a small jar of garlic powder in the pantry. Date Expired 2007. LOL.
Another interesting string ... enjoy. When people drop their masks and just talk, you see the real person.
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
I found a small jar of garlic powder in the pantry. Date Expired 2007. LOL.
Throw it out. It would probably be bitter from age. But I won't laugh. I recently found a spice jar in my pantry from 2000. Apparently, I don't use celery seed very often, LOL!
Anyway, the loaf is ready. (No beer, garlic powder or oregano. Maybe next time?)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4449/37773096781_99af80b8ea_z.jpg)
Quote from: pr126 on October 18, 2017, 09:01:13 AM
Anyway, the loaf is ready. (No beer, garlic powder or oregano. Maybe next time?)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4449/37773096781_99af80b8ea_z.jpg)
Seems a bit boring. But a lovely loaf.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 18, 2017, 07:27:35 AM
Throw it out. It would probably be bitter from age. But I won't laugh. I recently found a spice jar in my pantry from 2000. Apparently, I don't use celery seed very often, LOL!
Throw it out ... probably the seeds of despair ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2017, 07:25:44 PM
Throw it out ... probably the seeds of despair ;-(
The seeds of despair are mostly in your own mind.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 04:15:37 AM
The seeds of despair are mostly in your own mind.
Well ... the mortality thing is a serious business ...
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 11:26:52 PM
Well ... the mortality thing is a serious business ...
As Trump does, you do. Deflection, innuendo, and misdirection.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 06:04:48 AM
As Trump does, you do. Deflection, innuendo, and misdirection.
If mortality doesn't bother you, at your age, good for you.
Quote from: Baruch on October 28, 2017, 04:48:24 AM
If mortality doesn't bother you, at your age, good for you.
Given that I did not mention or suggest "mortality" in the post to which you replied, where do you come up with this nonsense? Do you dream it up at night, or find it in daytime while afraid of logic and reality? I'm really curious.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2017, 01:15:39 AM
Given that I did not mention or suggest "mortality" in the post to which you replied, where do you come up with this nonsense? Do you dream it up at night, or find it in daytime while afraid of logic and reality? I'm really curious.
You keep implying that I am The Donald ... I am not. In fact, you are making an analogy, which in your rhetoric, is a no-no.
Quote from: Baruch on October 31, 2017, 07:19:36 AM
You keep implying that I am The Donald ... I am not. In fact, you are making an analogy, which in your rhetoric, is a no-no.
I have never suggested that. You aren't that talented.