How do you cope with this. I'm sure you don't bring this to your mind regulary, otherwise this situation makes us depressive... For me, i don't care so much...
The reason why the religions has been created in human's mind is because of the reality that we'll die some day and because of the wish of being immortal...
You were dead for 14,000,000,000+ years, you'll go back to that state eventually. Sweating about it will reduce the time you have enjoy simply being alive.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 06, 2017, 10:30:53 AM
You were dead for 14,000,000,000+ years, you'll go back to that state eventually. Sweating about it will reduce the time you have enjoy simply being alive.
Thanks. You are right.
We'll go back the state before we were born.
But who don't want their life to last forever...
The belief we'll live after death stems from the wish of being immortal and we all have that kind of wish.
Its just a matter of fact we have to accept. Not accepting it is just puerile, since we all die, so better to just accept it as an inevitability, like getting old.
My way of doing so is just living in the here and now, live in the moment, enjoy the time you get to spend with people you care about, or doing things you enjoy, even making a difference. Some of the greatest people in the world are long since dead, but they left a legacy behind, meaning their lives were worthwhile.
I'd sooner be someone who gets to experience all the good stuff life as to offer, enjoy the quiet moments, taste all different kinds of foods, read good books, paint or write something, then be someone who spends every weekend praying to an imaginary entity, because I can't think of anything sadder then giving up a portion of your life to a cult, fooled into believing something, rather then your own self discovery.
Live in the now, do awesome stuff that makes you feel alive, and you make it worthwhile.
Quote from: Munch on April 06, 2017, 10:47:17 AM
Its just a matter of fact we have to accept. Not accepting it is just puerile, since we all die, so better to just accept it as an inevitability, like getting old.
My way of doing so is just living in the here and now, live in the moment, enjoy the time you get to spend with people you care about, or doing things you enjoy, even making a difference. Some of the greatest people in the world are long since dead, but they left a legacy behind, meaning their lives were worthwhile.
I'd sooner be someone who gets to experience all the good stuff life as to offer, enjoy the quiet moments, taste all different kinds of foods, read good books, paint or write something, then be someone who spends every weekend praying to an imaginary entity, because I can't think of anything sadder then giving up a portion of your life to a cult, fooled into believing something, rather then your own self discovery.
Live in the now, do awesome stuff that makes you feel alive, and you make it worthwhile.
Thanks.
All the things you talk about is living and enjoying life. I agree with you at that point.
And you are right, there is no way without accepting it.
But the issue that really matters is to make our lives be worth to live...
Left a legacy behind, otherwise nobody will remember you after 2 generation : )
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 10:44:06 AM
Thanks. You are right.
We'll go back the state before we were born.
But who don't want their life to last forever...
The belief we'll live after death stems from the wish of being immortal and we all have that kind of wish.
That would truly be Hell. Everybody you know dies, you go on. Everything you loved changes, you go on. The very planet you stand on dies, you go on, and on, and on, and on...
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 06, 2017, 11:10:04 AM
That would truly be Hell. Everybody you know dies, you go on. Everything you loved changes, you go on. The very planet you stand on dies, you go on, and on, and on, and on...
You are like you are still young.
Then why do the old people i ask about death want to live longer and longer...?
OK. Forever is too long : D
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
You are like you are still young.
Then why do the old people i ask about death want to live longer and longer...?
OK. Forever is too long : D
I'll be 66.6 years old on Aug. 19th.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 06, 2017, 11:52:45 AM
I'll be 66.6 years old on Aug. 19th.
Oh... Sorry big bro i supposed you are young...
How do you calculate the decimal part of your age.. your math seems like very good..
I've had a good life. I'm content with that. I have gotten my fair share. Even cheated death a couple of times, so I feel like I'm ahead of the actuarial tables. Expecting more is unrealistic. There is more to be mourned when a young person dies in mid life.
When I sailed the ocean, friends asked me if I was afraid of drowning in a storm (which is not actually the biggest danger. It's just a dramatic distraction people focus on). I was 60 at the time, and I told people I thought I was nearing the end of my best years, and if I died, I would only be sacrificing the very end of my life. However, the danger of sailing on the ocean tends to be overblown. Honestly, I feel at much greater risk driving the LA Freeway at high speeds within a few feet of other drivers. But people don't see that as dangerous because they do it everyday.
Life has given me a lot of enjoyment. I think about that a lot. I don't do much thinking about death. I don't see any reason to feel shortchanged when the end comes.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 12:07:55 PM
Oh... Sorry big bro i supposed you are young...
How do you calculate the decimal part of your age.. your math seems like very good..
I just multiplied 365 by .6 and that gave me the days. Then I looked up the date for that number of days in Google. I'm actually mathgnostic.
Back to being dead. My mother got two telegrams in the early '70s, saying I was KIA-BNR. (Killed In Action-Body Not Recovered). Second time she just laughed. I have also flat-lined several times due to medical problems. Never worried about that either. The inevitable I don't fret over.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 10:44:06 AM
Thanks. You are right.
We'll go back the state before we were born.
But who don't want their life to last forever...
The belief we'll live after death stems from the wish of being immortal and we all have that kind of wish.
Everyone mis-defines immortal. What you feel is dread, like being in school and having to take your report card home to show your parents. Immortal means ditching school (so you don't have to worry about grades) and ditching parents (so you don't have to worry about report cards). Basically being one of the wild boys from Pinocchio. But they get captured by slavers and turned into donkeys.
I am not wanting to live ... indefinitely. I also don't want to be reborn, as myself, or as someone else. I am not so sure my present state is worth it, even one time.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
You are like you are still young.
Then why do the old people i ask about death want to live longer and longer...?
OK. Forever is too long : D
People who are selfish, and almost all of us are ... want to either keep what we have, or take it with us. Also fear of the unknown ... but that can be fixed ... get some gonads. Calf fries will make a man out of you ;-)
Dying is something I will do--am doing, actually. One day I'll arrive at dead. I'm sorta, weirdly curious about that. But I really don't want to rush into it since one day I'll get there. So, I don't think of it much. I'm not 'happy' with my life--but I'm content. I've given up trying to be happy--that is too hard to figure out what that is exactly; but I'm content to be content. Well, Baruch, do I want to take with me what I have now? No. I can't--not a thing. Doesn't worry me. And I don't care one iota what happens to anything I have when I die--it won't matter. I won't know one way or the other anyway.
Frankly, I don't plan on it.
And I plan on taking it with me...
Quote from: aitm on April 06, 2017, 05:48:35 PM
Frankly, I don't plan on it.
I don't plan on it either; death will have to do a little chasing to find me. But we both know who will end up winning this little game of tag.
Quote from: aitm on April 06, 2017, 05:48:35 PM
Frankly, I don't plan on it.
Staff don't die, they just resurrect.
Something that gives me comfort, that gives me that awe and inspiration you often see with religious types have about their make believe gods, for me its looking up into the night sky and thinking about the vastness of space, all the galaxies and stars and voids out there. When you think, we are the only species on the planet that has not only thought about these things, but we've observed them, from afar, and sent up our technology into space to observe it.
Now on that, as religious sorts have a central theme of immortality, just about all religions believe we have an immortal soul that when we die either goes and lives somewhere good or bad for eternity, or gets reincarnated into something new. The irony of this however is when you really consider the universe in its entirety, just like us and out lifespans, the universe itself is of a lifespan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsWfGzxjs0w
The idea of living forever just seems all the more daft when you consider in the far, far distant future, there will be nothing there, just a void where the universe once was, and nothing to remember it.
So just on the fact of knowing everything will just simply not be anymore, like when our sun explodes and wipes out our planet, so when all supermassive black holes consume all atoms in the universe, its best to just live in there here and now and enjoy the ride.
Seriously I am working on a pill right now...and with my background in construction and drinking and a playboyin...I stand a pretty damn good chance of coming up with a "live long and prosper" pill. Ima gonna copy right that so don't try stealin it you jack wipe fuck heads. Anyway, I have read that if you combine chemicals that have opposing effects on anything that everything will be in a state of static whoo-si-do. So.....I have that going for me.....bitches.
Quote from: Munch on April 06, 2017, 08:18:25 PM
The idea of living forever just seems all the more daft when you consider in the far, far distant future, there will be nothing there, just a void where the universe once was, and nothing to remember it.
Or to take it a step further, not even a void to occupy, and no time for anything to happen in the "not-even-a-void." The movie, Dr. Strange, attempts to address this cosmological conundrum, and while I appreciated the director's attempt to visually create the concept, it was unavoidably clumsy. Good enough for Hollywood? Acceptable for most audiences, I guess, but I think I heard Stephen Hawking screaming from across the pond.
Good grief! A deranged super villain who is obsessed with wiping out time in order to create a more perfect universe. As much as I love that movie, I was squirming a bit in my seat during that part. I don't know. Maybe that guy was operating on a level so far beyond me that I just couldn't identify with it.
Quote from: aitm on April 06, 2017, 08:48:03 PM
Seriously I am working on a pill right now...and with my background in construction and drinking and a playboyin...I stand a pretty damn good chance of coming up with a "live long and prosper" pill. Ima gonna copy right that so don't try stealin it you jack wipe fuck heads. Anyway, I have read that if you combine chemicals that have opposing effects on anything that everything will be in a state of static whoo-si-do. So.....I have that going for me.....bitches.
I'm picturing you as the super villain in the next Dr. Strange movie.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 06, 2017, 10:30:53 AM
You were dead for 14,000,000,000+ years, you'll go back to that state eventually. Sweating about it will reduce the time you have enjoy simply being alive.
No, you have to be alive before you can be dead. Non-existence is time-free.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
No, you have to be alive before you can be dead. Non-existence is time-free.
Based on experience? Are you Interneting from a seance?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
No, you have to be alive before you can be dead. Non-existence is time-free.
Yeah, it is in a way. But think of all the time wasted. Think of what you missed. I could have been born in the horse and buggy days. Instead, I got stuck in the age of technology and medical advancement the likes of which my predecessors didn't have to endure. I missed out on the back breaking hours of the European peasants. What a pisser.
Quote from: SGOS on April 07, 2017, 08:21:23 AM
Yeah, it is in a way. But think of all the time wasted. Think of what you missed. I could have been born in the horse and buggy days. Instead, I got stuck in the age of technology and medical advancement the likes of which my predecessors didn't have to endure. I missed out on the back breaking hours of the European peasants. What a pisser.
Yeah, living when you shouldn't have is harsh. In an earlier age, I would have died of a hernial hiatus (or something like that) at 18 months, and an appendix rupture at 18 years. On the other hand, I have been healthy as a horse ever since. No flu touches me, the common cold is a sad things my friends suffer, and allergies are vague complaints in the office.
JK Rowling, through Newt Scamander, said it best, "Way I figure it, if you worry you die twice."
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2017, 08:50:12 AM
Yeah, living when you shouldn't have is harsh. In an earlier age, I would have died of a hernial hiatus (or something like that) at 18 months, and an appendix rupture at 18 years. On the other hand, I have been healthy as a horse ever since. No flu touches me, the common cold is a sad things my friends suffer, and allergies are vague complaints in the office.
Hiatal hernia?
I would have been dead at 37 from appendicitis. I would have been dead at 21 from injuries sustained while debating political with my socialist brothers via small arms fire and napalm.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2017, 05:57:23 AM
No, you have to be alive before you can be dead. Non-existence is time-free.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZlFF-E_Ek-Q
Because of the health issues I have had, over the past few weeks(chest pain & fatigue), I have been thinking a lot about this lately. I even put some final requests, into a file on my laptop, in lieu of an official Will.
Yeah, so I'm supposedly schizo... but my own ghost, came back to me in time, in 1989, and tried to reunite me with my soulmate. I don't know if that means there is an afterlife. I suspect it's more of a "between-life," like the point at the center of a clock, where there is no motion...neutral karma...the recycling of the soul...close your eyes...open your eyes...
“The Deadâ€
Solomon Zorn
The living are curious as to the dead
They're wondering what sort of fate lies ahead
I offer a secret you may not have read​
Death comes last
The dead do not suffer
The dead don't see your tears
The dead will not answer
The dead no longer hear
The dead are done talking
The dead don't make a sound
The dead are not lurking
The dead are in the ground
The dead have been buried
The dead are in a tomb
The dead are not worried
The dead await the womb
Death comes first
A heavenly dream as the carcass is mourned
Till water has broken and curtain is torn
The dead are in waiting and yet to be born
Just because I'm not expecting any God to meet me beyond, doesn't mean I don't get to have my own peculiar delusions, concerning the "soul"(for lack of a better word).
But my delusions are just my reaction, to the extraordinary phenomena that I have witnessed.
And I have witnessed some fucking mind-blowing weirdness.
Among them:
Mutual(mass) hypnosis
Invisibility
Levitation(This one is forbidden)
Time nullification
Radar love
The Sacred Dance(touching souls)
But although I joke about being the Schizophrenic Messiah, I don't share any of my experiences, with the expectation that they should ring true, to anyone else. But life is a trip, you know?
Last Temptation of Christ much? Shamen of any culture, including Jewish shamen, fit a certain profile. Alternative mentality is a pain, but it can be construed a gift, to not be as normal as the other ape people.
A fantasy: We move on to another plane of existence after we die. This would not involve a god necessarily, but it would be a "one way" trip. Rather like The Well of Souls.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 08, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
A fantasy: We move on to another plane of existence after we die. This would not involve a god necessarily, but it would be a "one way" trip. Rather like The Well of Souls.
My experience says ... we exist on multiple planes of existence now, we simply lose this plane when we die. A bit like Airport (1970).
Quote from: Baruch on April 08, 2017, 11:53:53 AM
My experience says ... we exist on multiple planes of existence now, we simply lose this plane when we die. A bit like Airport (1970).
That would explain your scattershot posting.
The older I get, the less life-force I have. I care less and less. I am not depressed, in fact, I am a pretty ebullient and positive person. But that is the truth, I just don't care that much anymore.
Quote from: Mermaid on April 08, 2017, 01:33:11 PM
The older I get, the less life-force I have. I care less and less. I am not depressed, in fact, I am a pretty ebullient and positive person. But that is the truth, I just don't care that much anymore.
Getting involved in something new and fun will perk you up.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 08, 2017, 01:57:41 PM
Getting involved in something new and fun will perk you up.
It is not that at all. There's nothing wrong with me, and I am a happy and healthy person. It is just something I noticed about myself. I am 54. I don't think this is abnormal, honestly.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 08, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
That would explain your scattershot posting.
No, not Airplane (1980). Different film.
Quote from: Mermaid on April 08, 2017, 02:01:09 PM
It is not that at all. There's nothing wrong with me, and I am a happy and healthy person. It is just something I noticed about myself. I am 54. I don't think this is abnormal, honestly.
For what it's worth, I feel pretty much the same way as I get older. It's not like I don't care whether I live or die. I'll just die sometime, and I'm OK with that. It's not depression or despondence. It's more like acceptance. And it's a good thing.
Quote from: Mermaid on April 08, 2017, 01:33:11 PM
The older I get, the less life-force I have. I care less and less. I am not depressed, in fact, I am a pretty ebullient and positive person. But that is the truth, I just don't care that much anymore.
Yeah, me too. I am not despondent or depressed or unhappy about it--it just is. I find what I used to care about has changed or dropped away. I still find that much interests me; and I'm much more accepting about the things that interest me. I don't care what others think of my choices. Most of the people of my age that I know look down on my playing computer games. Don't care what they think. My energy level has dropped a bit, but that is buoyed by taking naps. Or two.
QuoteThe older I get, the less life-force I have. I care less and less. I am not depressed, in fact, I am a pretty ebullient and positive person. But that is the truth, I just don't care that much anymore.
Quote
It is not that at all. There's nothing wrong with me, and I am a happy and healthy person. It is just something I noticed about myself. I am 54. I don't think this is abnormal, honestly.
Okay, explain the contradiction there.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
How do you cope with this.
I'm not dead right now! :) And when I am dead, I wont need to cope with it. By then it will be someone else's problem.
There is only one truth about aging (life) and death.. Get old or die before you get old. To those who say they're not getting older, just better I say BULLSHIT! If you're not getting older there's a very good chance flies have taken up residence on your body and are raising their young on you. That's not better by any reasonable definition.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 08, 2017, 07:36:22 PM
Okay, explain the contradiction there.
I don't care that much about being mortal. Not as much as I used to, anyway. I can accept it.
There is no contradiction.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 09, 2017, 12:37:40 PM
There is only one truth about aging (life) and death.. Get old or die before you get old. To those who say they're not getting older, just better I say BULLSHIT! If you're not getting older there's a very good chance flies have taken up residence on your body and are raising their young on you. That's not better by any reasonable definition.
If we accept aging = maturing .. of course a good whisky gets better with age ;-)
Quote from: Mermaid on April 09, 2017, 12:42:40 PM
I don't care that much about being mortal. Not as much as I used to, anyway. I can accept it.
There is no contradiction.
Okay then.
The answer of course is.......[spoiler].honey.[/spoiler] It never goes bad, never "dies" so eat it thirty time a day and live forever....unless we need thirty ONE doses,,then yer just fucked so.....
Bother me? No. I wasn't here for the last 13.5 billion years, and the universe did just fine without me, and when I die, it'll do just fine without me again. I'm trying to remember where I heard the phrase "Death is the end only if you think the story is about you", but it sums up my thinking pretty well.
[quote
“The Deadâ€
Solomon Zorn
The dead await the womb
[/quote]
"the dead wait the womb"? I like your thoughts but what does THAT mean?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2017, 05:04:58 AM
"the dead wait the womb"? I like your thoughts but what does THAT mean?
Reincarnation/transmigration ... but you were all grown up at 12 ;-) Back to your Easter eggs.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2017, 05:04:58 AM
"the dead wait the womb"? I like your thoughts but what does THAT mean?
You're dead before you're alive.
I rarely worry about death. Sometimes I freak out a little over it when I think about it too much, but it quickly passes and I'm fine in no time. I just go on a bike ride or work out and that puts me in a better state of mind. There are moments when I think that it would be nice to have some kind of afterlife, but I don't really think it would be humanly possible for me to convince myself such a thing existed or even has a decent chance of being possible in order for me to get some kind of comfort out of it. When you look at some religions like Christianity though, non-existence after death honestly seems preferable to either their hell where you're being tortured, or their heaven where you have to worship all day. I'd rather just not exist.
The idea of being dead doesn't bother me at all. However, I have some trepidation about the process involved in becoming dead. Pain, illness, traumatic accident, etc. Not looking forward to any of that. :uchicken:
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 12, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
I rarely worry about death. Sometimes I freak out a little over it when I think about it too much, but it quickly passes and I'm fine in no time. I just go on a bike ride or work out and that puts me in a better state of mind. There are moments when I think that it would be nice to have some kind of afterlife, but I don't really think it would be humanly possible for me to convince myself such a thing existed or even has a decent chance of being possible in order for me to get some kind of comfort out of it. When you look at some religions like Christianity though, non-existence after death honestly seems preferable to either their hell where you're being tortured, or their heaven where you have to worship all day. I'd rather just not exist.
I resolve the problem with an understanding that may not be true or even rational. I don't care. It puts any concern in the "not to worry" category. Specifically:
What is the problem with oblivion? I never concerned myself with it before I was born, I don't have any memory of being the least bit uncomfortable or bored (and this is the state I was in for at least half an eternity, not even being bored doing nothing during that infinite amount of time). I can only remember episodes of pain and struggle after I was born. If I push myself to wonder what might be wrong with this perspective, the only thing I can think of is that it doesn't feed my ego. Imagine! A state in which you aren't struggling to protect your ego. Can it be all that bad?
Quote from: onyx on April 12, 2017, 03:43:27 PM
The idea of being dead doesn't bother me at all. However, I have some trepidation about the process involved in becoming dead. Pain, illness, traumatic accident, etc. Not looking forward to any of that. :uchicken:
I tend to stop breathing, with accompanied slowing of heart rate. Happens about once a day. One time it will be the last time. Over the past six months I've practiced not panicking when it happens. I am happy when I can get myself going again, but I won't be horribly surprised when it doesn't work. Oddly, this makes me feel lucky, because I won't be a gibbering, pissy idiot that last time.
Quote from: SGOS on April 12, 2017, 03:46:13 PM
I resolve the problem with an understanding that may not be true or even rational. I don't care. It puts any concern in the "not to worry" category. Specifically:
What is the problem with oblivion? I never concerned myself with it before I was born, I don't have any memory of being the least bit uncomfortable or bored (and this is the state I was in for at least half an eternity, not even being bored doing nothing during that infinite amount of time). I can only remember episodes of pain and struggle after I was born. If I push myself to wonder what might be wrong with this perspective, the only thing I can think of is that it doesn't feed my ego. Imagine! A state in which you aren't struggling to protect your ego. Can it be all that bad?
You're right that it can't be all that bad. It can't be all that good or bad. It can just be nothing, like before we were born. The difference is, this time we are losing the good when we "go back" to death. Before we were born, there was no good to lose. The loss is what will suck. The being dead part I won't care about, because I'll be dead, and knowing that I won't be able to care about it does give me comfort. The loss of the good in life will suck, and I was not happy when I first realised that there is probably no afterlife, but very quickly I took the view that we can't change reality with wishful thinking and it won't be all that bad, and could in fact be much worse, so there's no point in worrying about the inevitable.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 12, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
I rarely worry about death. Sometimes I freak out a little over it when I think about it too much, but it quickly passes and I'm fine in no time. I just go on a bike ride or work out and that puts me in a better state of mind. There are moments when I think that it would be nice to have some kind of afterlife, but I don't really think it would be humanly possible for me to convince myself such a thing existed or even has a decent chance of being possible in order for me to get some kind of comfort out of it. When you look at some religions like Christianity though, non-existence after death honestly seems preferable to either their hell where you're being tortured, or their heaven where you have to worship all day. I'd rather just not exist.
In Church they try to keep the sermon to 15 mins ... you know you are in Heaven, because there the sermon is 0 minutes ;-)
Quote from: onyx on April 12, 2017, 03:43:27 PM
The idea of being dead doesn't bother me at all. However, I have some trepidation about the process involved in becoming dead. Pain, illness, traumatic accident, etc. Not looking forward to any of that. :uchicken:
People used to encounter death of family and friends frequently ... we used to know it well. People in the West have become so spoiled, we would panic into a fetal position if actually challenged by the grit of reality.
Quote from: SGOS on April 12, 2017, 03:46:13 PM
I resolve the problem with an understanding that may not be true or even rational. I don't care. It puts any concern in the "not to worry" category. Specifically:
What is the problem with oblivion? I never concerned myself with it before I was born, I don't have any memory of being the least bit uncomfortable or bored (and this is the state I was in for at least half an eternity, not even being bored doing nothing during that infinite amount of time). I can only remember episodes of pain and struggle after I was born. If I push myself to wonder what might be wrong with this perspective, the only thing I can think of is that it doesn't feed my ego. Imagine! A state in which you aren't struggling to protect your ego. Can it be all that bad?
Buddhists agree ;-)
Death itself does not worry me.
It's the possibly long proces of dying, bit by bit, that bothers me a greater deal.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 13, 2017, 02:18:02 AM
Death itself does not worry me.
It's the possibly long proces of dying, bit by bit, that bothers me a greater deal.
That is real, for some people. Others die all at once. Either way, try not to think about it ... it doesn't help. Just be prudent and not step in front of a moving bus.
I hope to earn a good one a take a much needed break from all this crazy human stuff. :bigyawn:
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 03:22:39 AM
I hope to earn a good one a take a much needed break from all this crazy human stuff. :bigyawn:
But but ... then you have to do crazy angel stuff. Or maybe you will just reincarnate as a marshmallow Peep for Easter ;-))
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 03:22:39 AM
I hope to earn a good one a take a much needed break from all this crazy human stuff. :bigyawn:
Next turn of the wheel I'll be a kaiju.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 14, 2017, 09:55:49 AM
Next turn of the wheel I'll be a kaiju.
Next turn of the wheel, you will be a skeleton--Skyrim may animate you--or not.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 14, 2017, 09:55:49 AM
Next turn of the wheel I'll be a kaiju.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65rW_SIzg0
Wait, you're not one this time around? :D
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 14, 2017, 10:30:55 AM
Next turn of the wheel, you will be a skeleton--Skyrim may animate you--or not.
I get to respawn, it's in my contract. TOHO Studios gave me a multi-life contract deal.
Quote from: trdsf on April 14, 2017, 10:45:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65rW_SIzg0
Wait, you're not one this time around? :D
Wouldn't be anything else.!
(http://ibiblio.org/pha/Gawdzilla/Godzilla%20not%20sure%20if%20serious.jpg)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 14, 2017, 10:55:32 AM
I get to respawn, it's in my contract. TOHO Studios gave me a multi-life contract deal.
As what tho??? Skyrim could use some different creatures.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 14, 2017, 10:56:47 AM
Wouldn't be anything else!
Yeah, but which version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5Er5ON9BA
...hey, wait. Maybe they're all the same Godzilla, but he regenerates! So Godzilla is a Time Lord!
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2017, 07:21:05 AM
But but ... then you have to do crazy angel stuff. Or maybe you will just reincarnate as a marshmallow Peep for Easter ;-))
God's messenger service? Have you seen the stack of request letters? No wonder some of them went postal.....
I'm aiming for a swing through Gehenna, got trash to burn.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 14, 2017, 11:31:49 AM
As what tho??? Skyrim could use some different creatures.
It's simple. Every time I go into the Well of Souls I have a panel of switches. If I press them correctly I will become the creature I'm thinking of.
Most times I just slap the shit out of the panel and see what happens.
Quote from: trdsf on April 14, 2017, 12:29:00 PM
Yeah, but which version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5Er5ON9BA
...hey, wait. Maybe they're all the same Godzilla, but he regenerates! So Godzilla is a Time Lord!
And now I get to hang out with Elizabeth Olsen.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 15, 2017, 08:59:58 AM
It's simple. Every time I go into the Well of Souls I have a panel of switches. If I press them correctly I will become the creature I'm thinking of.
Most times I just slap the shit out of the panel and see what happens.
Well of Souls--I haven't run across that yet in Skyrim. I'll be looking for it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 15, 2017, 09:03:32 AM
Well of Souls--I haven't run across that yet in Skyrim. I'll be looking for it.
How would an atheist use that? So are you a theist in comic-con?
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
How would an atheist use that? So are you a theist in comic-con?
I'm an atheist in the Fallout series, but a theist in Skyrim.
As I watch my parents slow descent into dementia, I find myself reminding my father, in his moments of lucidity, that carbon monoxide is quite painless and easy. Some may think bad of this, but my father always thanks me for reminding him.
I have no desire to watch the further descent and fortunately won't have too but my sisters have taken that chore, and are beginning to regret it. I intend to go out in a blaze of glory, perhaps I shall crawl the wall during the WH easter egg hunt and snip at a trumpy but not this kind of a trumpy, I intend to buy this just as soon as my retirement plan kicks in:
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUshJKhf7I[/spoiler]
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
How would an atheist use that? So are you a theist in comic-con?
You don't need a god to have a soul. And there's no afterlife mentioned in those books. It's about "life force" transference.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
I intend to buy this just as soon as my retirement plan kicks in:
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUshJKhf7I[/spoiler]
Need a navigator? I can also steer. In fact my autopilot failed on the way to Hawaii, and I manually steered for over 3/4 of the trip. That got a little old, but I read much of the time. If I got to something interesting, I would get involved, and sometimes find myself 90 degrees off course. One night a freighter was headed my way. I would always talk to those guys on the radio. I called and announced my position to him. He said, "Yeah, we've been following you on radar. We weren't sure what it was. I had my navigator come over and take a look because you weren't acting like a boat. First you would go this way and then that way, and we wondered what you were." I replied, "Yep that's definitely me. My autopilot broke."
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
How would an atheist use that? So are you a theist in comic-con?
"When in Rome...."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 15, 2017, 12:24:54 PM
You don't need a god to have a soul. And there's no afterlife mentioned in those books. It's about "life force" transference.
Spiritism ... please call Descartes in the afterlife ...
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 02:38:39 PM
"When in Rome...."
A big well of souls ... weren't they so superstitious that they had 20,000 gods?
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on April 15, 2017, 04:46:15 PM
Yep. That.
The real trick is to become fully alive before you die.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:33:16 PM
The real trick is to become fully alive before you die.
The real trick is to ignore how others want you to live and instead live for yourself.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:41:05 PM
The real trick is to ignore how others want you to live and instead live for yourself.
After survival of the fittest comes flourishing of the most cooperative.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:44:23 PM
After survival of the fittest comes flourishing of the most cooperative.
I do not cooperate. I attempt to make them think. The only problem is that they are too far gone to think past survival instincts.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
I do not cooperate. I attempt to make them think. The only problem is that they are too far gone to think past survival instincts.
Tricky tricky "they"...so many groups to choose from, so few individuals. Groupthink is dangerous for both sides.
Reason is not that tricky. Only those who want to argue against reason find it tricky.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:54:45 PM
Reason is not that tricky. Only those who want to argue against reason find it tricky.
Tricky part I was referring to is creating a "they" category in your mind and throwing people into it. Some might go along with your assumptions just to push your buttons.
Come let us reason together...
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:58:02 PM
Tricky part I was referring to is creating a "they" category in your mind and throwing people into it. Some might go along with your assumptions just to push your buttons.
Come let us reason together...
You're in the "they" category, at least halfway in. You're welcome.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 05:59:31 PM
You're in the "they" category, at least halfway in. You're welcome.
C'est la vie
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:07:51 PM
Indeed, that is life.
Which is why I also look on the bright side of death. Life is noisy.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:09:11 PM
Which is why I also look on the bright side of death. Life is noisy.
Too noisy.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:12:06 PM
Too noisy.
Which is why I live down a dirt road, across a river, in the woods. Current civilization is noisy and abrasive. Nature soothes my soul.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:16:07 PM
Which is why I live down a dirt road, across a river, in the woods. Current civilization is noisy and abrasive. Nature soothes my soul.
Interesting how human nature keeps destroying earthly nature.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:18:28 PM
Interesting how human nature keeps destroying earthly nature.
Many empires have risen and fallen based on their harmony with or abuse of nature. The rules have not changed.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:21:29 PM
Many empires have risen and fallen based on their harmony with or abuse of nature. The rules have not changed.
The rules are the problem.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:23:10 PM
The rules are the problem.
I was referring to natural laws of action and consequence. Consumer culture is a delusion of infinite resources and zero consequences. Capitalism is shitting the bed. Collapse is inevitable. Which will be on going during increasing resource wars.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:28:57 PM
I was referring to natural laws of action and consequence. Consumer culture is a delusion of infinite resources and zero consequences. Capitalism is shitting the bed. Collapse is inevitable. Which will be on going during increasing resource wars.
Corporations are scared because this is precisely the direction most thinking people are headed now that the older generations are dying out and younger generations are making their mark.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:33:52 PM
Corporations are scared because this is precisely the direction most thinking people are headed now that the older generations are dying out and younger generations are making their mark.
We need a new collective paradigm. And there's nothing so powerful is an idea whose time has come.
We almost need an exodus.
If you're afraid of death, just decide that you're not going to die when your body dies.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 15, 2017, 08:26:14 PM
If you're afraid of death, just decide that you're not going to die when your body dies.
Can you imagine the shock of finding out your consciousness can't die?
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:23:10 PM
The rules are the problem.
A hippie once wrote on a window in a cabin in Nederland CO ... so my chemistry professor told me ... "Entropy Sucks". Well hippies suck too.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:21:29 PM
Many empires have risen and fallen based on their harmony with or abuse of nature. The rules have not changed.
Collapse by Jared Diamond.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:58:02 PM
Tricky part I was referring to is creating a "they" category in your mind and throwing people into it. Some might go along with your assumptions just to push your buttons.
Come let us reason together...
For monomaniacs ... the inverse is easy ... there is only one person in "us", which is just her/him. Everyone else is a "them".
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 08:29:56 PM
Can you imagine the shock of finding out your consciousness can't die?
Um, no.
But it wouldn't be any more amazing that just dying.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 15, 2017, 09:17:52 PM
Um, no.
But it wouldn't be any more amazing that just dying.
Not sure if you're appreciating just how much information we store, compartmentalize, and hide from our own selves.
At death we no longer have the luxury of insulation. All disharmonies resolve themselves with out our say so. This is probably the hell experience many near death experiencers report.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 09:34:12 PM
Not sure if you're appreciating just how much information we store, compartmentalize, and hide from our own selves.
At death we no longer have the luxury of insulation. All disharmonies resolve themselves with out our say so. This is probably the hell experience many near death experiencers report.
Or it could be different. Nobody's really reported back.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 15, 2017, 09:49:50 PM
Or it could be different. Nobody's really reported back.
People report back from the brink of the brink...appears to center around life review and reconciliation of consciousness.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 05:44:23 PM
After survival of the fittest comes flourishing of the most cooperative.
Survival of the fittest does not exclude being cooperative. I've found that in many ways they are one and the same.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 15, 2017, 10:22:57 PM
Survival of the fittest does not exclude being cooperative. I've found that in many ways they are one and the same.
I wonder how many people cooperate with their gut bacteria? Given that they produce the far majority of neural transmitters...it would be a good idea not to ignore them.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 10:26:38 PM
I wonder how many people cooperate with their gut bacteria? Given that they produce the far majority of neural transmitters...it would be a good idea not to ignore them.
How does one ignore them???
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 09:05:49 PM
A hippie once wrote on a window in a cabin in Nederland CO ... so my chemistry professor told me ... "Entropy Sucks". Well hippies suck too.
Why does entropy suck? For that matter, why do hippies suck? How did your professor know that it was a hippy? Furthermore, I thought it was a clever thing to write. If I saw that, it would have given me a chuckle as a poetic bit of nonsense. It would make a great bumper sticker. I'm happy there are people around that make me chuckle. I love that kind of nonsense. Who cares if it was a hippy or just some ordinary chemistry student wasted on pot? I'm guessing it was a chemistry student, or at least someone smart enough to know about entropy. And it's a lot funnier than making farting sounds with your armpit.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 10:18:19 PM
People report back from the brink of the brink...appears to center around life review and reconciliation of consciousness.
That's rather like reporting from the exit before opening it. Nil actual information.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 15, 2017, 10:22:57 PM
Survival of the fittest does not exclude being cooperative. I've found that in many ways they are one and the same.
Frenemies ... very big in ME now.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 09:34:12 PM
Not sure if you're appreciating just how much information we store, compartmentalize, and hide from our own selves.
At death we no longer have the luxury of insulation. All disharmonies resolve themselves with out our say so. This is probably the hell experience many near death experiencers report.
The idea that you are contained in your body, not just cohabit it .. is an illusion ... particularly of the egomaniac West.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 15, 2017, 10:22:57 PM
Survival of the fittest does not exclude being cooperative. I've found that in many ways they are one and the same.
Yep. We see subordinates cooperating to keep the "alpha female" well fed during pregnancy and nursing. In some cases they take turns tending the creche while the actual parents are out hunting. They are insuring that their bloodline endures/survives.
Some view a human as an "individual", I see the human as a vast collection of the micro world, a somewhat accidental creation, a by product of mutual self-preservation. We are a Queen Mary of the micro world, but we are not more important than the squirrel or lemur of cockroach all of which were assembled more or less by the evolution of the micro worlds attempt to protect itself. Each animal slowly produces its own motor control, it's own method of travel, or sustenance gathering for the whole. This I find to be the most incredible and fascinating story of evolution. It is far more believable than a grand wizard stumbling about in the great nothingness spilling universes into existence when perhaps his job is to take out the trash.
Quote from: aitm on April 16, 2017, 09:47:38 AM
Some view a human as an "individual", I see the human as a vast collection of the micro world, a somewhat accidental creation, a by product of mutual self-preservation. We are a Queen Mary of the micro world, but we are not more important than the squirrel or lemur of cockroach all of which were assembled more or less by the evolution of the micro worlds attempt to protect itself. Each animal slowly produces its own motor control, it's own method of travel, or sustenance gathering for the whole. This I find to be the most incredible and fascinating story of evolution. It is far more believable than a grand wizard stumbling about in the great nothingness spilling universes into existence when perhaps his job is to take out the trash.
I love/hate animals too ... but not as much as I love/hate people. Plants on the other hand, would run away from me if they had legs ... brown thumb ;-(
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 16, 2017, 12:04:17 AM
How does one ignore them???
Eating garbage food that only supports scavenger like and hostile bacteria.
The gut can either be a garbage dump full of bugs and rats, or a rain forest full of fresh plants and a harmony of critters. They produce over 80% of our neurotransmitters and the gut is our second brain lined with neurons. They supply the background feeling of our consciousness.
Quote from: aitm on April 16, 2017, 09:47:38 AM
Some view a human as an "individual", I see the human as a vast collection of the micro world, a somewhat accidental creation, a by product of mutual self-preservation. We are a Queen Mary of the micro world, but we are not more important than the squirrel or lemur of cockroach all of which were assembled more or less by the evolution of the micro worlds attempt to protect itself. Each animal slowly produces its own motor control, it's own method of travel, or sustenance gathering for the whole. This I find to be the most incredible and fascinating story of evolution. It is far more believable than a grand wizard stumbling about in the great nothingness spilling universes into existence when perhaps his job is to take out the trash.
Why is a nothing state the default assumption?
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 02:35:34 PM
Why is a nothing state the default assumption?
Don't allow Hannibal, to decide the battle ground, if you are Roman. Also humans don't know nothing, literally. We only deal with somethings. Give me empirical knowledge of nothing. Back to your "does zero exist" ;-)
It should be a simple conceptual switch from considering no-thingness to all-thingness. But God help me, do I watch those gears smoke! Lol
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 02:33:00 PM
Eating garbage food that only supports scavenger like and hostile bacteria.
The gut can either be a garbage dump full of bugs and rats, or a rain forest full of fresh plants and a harmony of critters. They produce over 80% of our neurotransmitters and the gut is our second brain lined with neurons. They supply the background feeling of our consciousness.
I regard that as abuse not ignoring them. Our bodies will not serve us well if we abuse any part of it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 16, 2017, 04:25:17 PM
I regard that as abuse not ignoring them. Our bodies will not serve us well if we abuse any part of it.
Perhaps abuse by ignorance. Agreed.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 04:31:36 PM
Perhaps abuse by ignorance. Agreed.
I agree with you--the symbiotic relationships each human body has with other creatures (big and small--inside and outside the body) are very important. Science has demonstrated that--not theism.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 16, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
I agree with you--the symbiotic relationships each human body has with other creatures (big and small--inside and outside the body) are very important. Science has demonstrated that--not theism.
"The kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you, spread throughout the earth though men see it not."
I contend that the religions have nearly flogged to death and crucified theism and I'm inclined to believe it's on purpose. "People can't be having a relationship directly with God. Who's going to buy our tickets to heaven?"
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 06:22:35 PM
"The kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you, spread throughout the earth them and see it not."
I contend that the religions have nearly flogged to death and crucified theism and I'm inclined to believe it's on purpose. "People can't be having a relationship directly with God. Who's going to buy our tickets to heaven?"
I agree in that I have no problem with theism itself or so called spirituality. It is organized religions and their hierarchy that is dangerous. The hierarchy has one goal--grow the hierarchy in power and wealth.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 02:35:34 PM
Why is a nothing state the default assumption?
Even in "our" universe there is more "nothing" than there is something. One would assume that its easier to toss shit in than dig it out eh?
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 03:21:24 PM
It should be a simple conceptual switch from considering no-thingness to all-thingness. But God help me, do I watch those gears smoke! Lol
Impossible to think all-thingness .. you must have slipped a gear.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 12, 2017, 07:51:34 AM
You're dead before you're alive.
No, non-existence is not "dead". You don't exist before you are alive.
The theists have got it ass backwards. Strictly speaking, when the soul dies, the body continues, not the other way around. This can be confirmed by simple observation. Go to a funeral and observe a body. We know that this was the body of Old Joe, but if you observe carefully, Old Joe is no longer in there. His soul has died, but his body is still there. His soul is gone, but his body remains. Praise Jesus!
It's odd that the most important part of Joe was the part you cannot see. But it's a leap of faith to believe that the part of him has floated out of his body and is now hovering just under the ceiling of the funeral parlor, and looking down on light fixtures for hidden notes about things he could not possibly know that were left hidden like Easter eggs by soul researchers and pranksters. Notes like, "You wife has been cheating on you with your best friend," and "Your children are delighted with your death, and are planning to blow all your money on drugs."
The soul dies, but the body remains. Well meaning relatives bury it in the dirt, or set it on fire, because they don't know what else to do with it. It's just trash that needs to be cleared away. But it remains long after the moment of your death. Praise Jesus!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 17, 2017, 02:21:47 AM
No, non-existence is not "dead". You don't exist before you are alive.
You don't exist after you die.
For those among us who tell us they're not getting older, just better..BULLSHIT..You have two options. Get old or die...period. Optimally you'll get old and then die, but you can skip the getting old part by immediately killing yourself unless you're already old in which case you're fucked. You're just going to get older and die.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 17, 2017, 08:37:01 AM
For those among us who tell us they're not getting older, just better..BULLSHIT..You have two options. Get old or die...period. Optimally you'll get old and then die, but you can skip the getting old part by immediately killing yourself unless you're already old in which case you're fucked. You're just going to get older and die.
Well, I'll be 66.6 years old in a few months, and I'm definitely not better than I was at 19. But I was far better at 30 than I was at 20. And by 40 I was perfectly evil. According to some people, that is. Today I'm a much better historian than I was at 50.
So, better at what, and better than when?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 17, 2017, 08:58:34 AM
Well, I'll be 66.6 years old in a few months, and I'm definitely not better than I was at 19. But I was far better at 30 than I was at 20. And by 40 I was perfectly evil. According to some people, that is. Today I'm a much better historian than I was at 50.
So, better at what, and better than when?
I'm definitely better at not getting a hardon at very inappropriate times. Unfortunately that's also true about appropriate times as well. I guess I am getting better.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 17, 2017, 09:11:00 AM
I'm definitely better at not getting a hardon at very inappropriate times. Unfortunately that's also true about appropriate times as well. I guess I am getting better.
When I was a young man I honed my ... linguistic ... skills for just such an event.
God will definetely ask you what you have discussed here so be careful about what you say. ehehehe
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 17, 2017, 10:42:38 AM
God will definetely ask you what you have discussed here so be careful about what you say. ehehehe
A lot of people say stuff like that seriously, yet I've never seen why they're so sure about it. Just seems like idle speculation and opinion presented as a matter of fact.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 17, 2017, 11:00:01 AM
A lot of people say stuff like that seriously, yet I've never seen why they're so sure about it. Just seems like idle speculation and opinion presented as a matter of fact.
Maybe they were taught and caught to think in that way and cant save themselves from the cage
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 17, 2017, 08:37:01 AM
For those among us who tell us they're not getting older, just better..BULLSHIT..You have two options. Get old or die...period.
For now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7aib21s2N8
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 17, 2017, 11:53:03 AM
For now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7aib21s2N8
This is so very big breakthrough but they havent found the immortality, it's just about making longer the lifetime/ of course this is still a big improvement in science/
but it will take long time for this medicine for the use of people...
Ha! North Korea has had this medicine for years! If the decadent nations of the world want to deny long life to their citizens that's not surprising. The people of North Korea have determined that President Kim is the only human being wise enough to live that long.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 17, 2017, 08:37:01 AM
For those among us who tell us they're not getting older, just better..BULLSHIT..You have two options.
I prefer to say that I may be getting older, but I'm not getting
old. I want to be the youngest-thinking centenarian this planet has ever seen, and my body is going to coöperate whether it wants to or not.
Quote from: trdsf on April 17, 2017, 01:27:06 PM
I prefer to say that I may be getting older, but I'm not getting old. I want to be the youngest-thinking centenarian this planet has ever seen, and my body is going to coöperate whether it wants to or not.
"You don't start growing old until you stop growing up."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 17, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
"You don't start growing old until you stop growing up."
Pretty much. I am willing to adult enough to keep myself housed and fed and entertained, and beyond that I am a free agent.
Quote from: trdsf on April 17, 2017, 03:33:33 PM
Pretty much. I am willing to adult enough to keep myself housed and fed and entertained, and beyond that I am a free agent.
I retired from the Navy in 1989 specifically so I wouldn't have to adult. It works.
I have had multiple injections into my ankles and feet. I might consider telling you that painful feet are really the worst ailment. So to that, as I am a mere 60, I do not look forward to 20 or 30 more years of this crap. I wonder how long before they make excellent prothesis for feetsies?
Quote from: aitm on April 16, 2017, 09:29:03 PM
Even in "our" universe there is more "nothing" than there is something. One would assume that its easier to toss shit in than dig it out eh?
Which is more reasonable: Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
Quote from: Baruch on April 16, 2017, 09:49:45 PM
Impossible to think all-thingness .. you must have slipped a gear.
It's easy when you're used to thinking in terms of mass rather than space.
Another perspective bias of the human vehicle; we look out into space, we think spatially, yet the thing doing the thinking is mass.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 17, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
Which is more reasonable: Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
More reasonable? Not god. The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends. Why not god? The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from? And where did the first universe come from. In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 17, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
Which is more reasonable: Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
only two choices? Given that we are mere microns to our own solar system and it to the galaxy and it to the universe, your assumptions or mine are mere guesses. But by far the easiest, and laziest, is to give the credit to a great wizard. Yeah, that's real logical there.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
More reasonable? Not god. The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends. Why not god? The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from? And where did the first universe come from. In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
As a demigod, I came from my parents. Before that I don't care too much. But I don't think it was something from nothing, or order from chaos. Maybe some grunting between cave man and cave woman ... is that chaos?
Space is not nothing. It's space, which is actually something. If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
More reasonable? Not god. The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends. Why not god? The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from? And where did the first universe come from. In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?
There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.
I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.
I was "dead" for billions of years and I will be dead for all time to come after my body (particularly my brain) ceases to function. There might be a simulacrum of me created after my death, but will that really be "me"?
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 04:45:06 AM
Space is not nothing. It's space, which is actually something. If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.
Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place. But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand, because time stops, to an external observer (which is the paradox). There is no such thing, in cosmology, as an external observer ... but classical physics requires one ... but QM says, any observer messes with the results, and if there is no observer (Schrodinger's Cat) then nothing happens. The reason why modern physics has conundrums, is because the human understanding of reality ... is ignorance.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 18, 2017, 06:15:02 AM
So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?
There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.
What a thing seems to be, depends only on POV. In our POV, we exist .. in another POV, we might not. In the past ... in the future ... we don't exist. And per relativity, no POV is superior to another, just more or less convenient.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2017, 06:52:51 AM
Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place. But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand,
Ha! I've actually had that occur to me, but never articulated it quite like that. A guy asked me once, "If you were looking back in time as far as possible with an "ultimate" telescope, what direction would you look if you wanted to see the singularity?" The answer is of course, "any direction," since we are at the center of singularity. How about from Mars? Same answer.
Quote from: Sal1981 on April 18, 2017, 06:29:03 AM
I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.
"Seems to me, if you worry you suffer twice." Newt Scamander
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 18, 2017, 06:15:02 AM
So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?
There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.
That is your thought.
This is mine. Each universe is formed from another via a black hole. So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other. And so on.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 18, 2017, 08:57:42 AM
That is your thought.
This is mine. Each universe is formed from another via a black hole. So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other. And so on.
I'm a fan of the "Black hole => White hole" theory myself. The fun part for me is that at least the SMBHs would each give birth to a new universe and we have many of those big ass black holes so there are countless new universes being formed from our universe, and that we're a legacy of a "higher" universe that spawned many universes.
Ooof, just got a little dizzy there.
The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing. Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed. What happened to what was left of the old universe? Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.
Now I'm getting dizzy.
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing. Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed. What happened to what was left of the old universe? Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.
Now I'm getting dizzy.
Unless the accelerated expansion continues until the fabric of space itself ruptures.
I think this dizzy spell is contagious...
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing. Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed. What happened to what was left of the old universe? Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.
Now I'm getting dizzy.
Why would a new singularity form here? The white holes are in their own universes.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 18, 2017, 11:15:17 AM
Why would a new singularity form here? The white holes are in their own universes.
I suppose this is a reference to the Big Rip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip).
The way I understand it, the distances between
virtual particle pairs will become, at a extremely distant point in the future, greater than virtual particles coming in/out of existence. Meaning, at a extremely distant point in the future, space will expand so fast that virtual particles coming in and out of existence from quantum foam will "rip" apart from each other, generating a new Universe at all spatial points, everywhere, because of the expansion of space itself.
Quote from: Sal1981 on April 18, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
I suppose this is a reference to the Big Rip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip).
The way I understand it, the distances between virtual particle pairs will become, at a extremely distant point in the future, greater than virtual particles coming in/out of existence. Meaning, at a extremely distant point in the future, space will expand so fast that virtual particles coming in and out of existence from quantum foam will "rip" apart from each other, generating a new Universe at all spatial points, everywhere, because of the expansion of space itself.
I never thought I'd say this but the black-hole/white-hole theory sounds more plausible.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 18, 2017, 11:15:17 AM
Why would a new singularity form here?
I dunno, a god maybe?
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing. Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed. What happened to what was left of the old universe? Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.
Now I'm getting dizzy.
Everyone here thinks they are Steven Hawking ;-( Why is spacetime stretching? Inflation and Dark Energy aren't explanations, they are a cover for ignorance, like theism. Sci-fi physics masturbation.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2017, 01:26:38 PM
Everyone here thinks they are Steven Hawking ;-( Why is spacetime stretching? Inflation and Dark Energy aren't explanations, they are a cover for ignorance, like theism. Sci-fi physics masturbation.
You've got yourself worked into a snit or something, or do we have to actually include a smiley face when we post obvious nonsense?
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 01:38:30 PM
You've got yourself worked into a snit or something, or do we have to actually include a smiley face when we post obvious nonsense?
You just don't understand Baruchistani.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.livescience.com/56634-how-many-stars-are-in-the-universe.html
Multiplying the number of galaxies â€" which is about 2 trillion â€" by the 100 million stars in the galaxy suggests there could be about 10 raised to the19th power stars in the universe, Conselice said.
"But this could easily be a factor of 10 higher," Conselice said.
----
100,000,000,000,000,000,000 And that's only the observable part of the universe...
The largest super massive black hole we've found is only 40 billion solar masses.... 40,000,000,000
That is a woefully inadequate amount of mass for a starting an entire universe.
That's bearly enough for a single galaxy, smaller than the Milky Way!
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on April 06, 2017, 11:00:40 AM
Left a legacy behind, otherwise nobody will remember you after 2 generation : )
So what? I won't know or care who does or doesn't remember me. Approximately 100 billion people have lived on this planet, so far, and almost all of them are completely forgotten - but I guarantee none of them give a damn about having been forgotten.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 05:58:32 PM
So what? I won't know or care who does or doesn't remember me. Approximately 100 billion people have lived on this planet, so far, and almost all of them are completely forgotten - but I guarantee none of them give a damn about having been forgotten.
Egomaniacs want to go down in history. So they do wars and genocide ;-(
Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 01:38:30 PM
You've got yourself worked into a snit or something, or do we have to actually include a smiley face when we post obvious nonsense?
I don't always use a smiley face either, but don't take that as negative. But I will thro ape poo at nonsense. It is what we apes do ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on April 17, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
The theists have got it ass backwards. Strictly speaking, when the soul dies, the body continues, not the other way around. This can be confirmed by simple observation. Go to a funeral and observe a body. We know that this was the body of Old Joe, but if you observe carefully, Old Joe is no longer in there. His soul has died, but his body is still there. His soul is gone, but his body remains. Praise Jesus!
It's odd that the most important part of Joe was the part you cannot see. But it's a leap of faith to believe that the part of him has floated out of his body and is now hovering just under the ceiling of the funeral parlor, and looking down on light fixtures for hidden notes about things he could not possibly know that were left hidden like Easter eggs by soul researchers and pranksters. Notes like, "You wife has been cheating on you with your best friend," and "Your children are delighted with your death, and are planning to blow all your money on drugs."
The soul dies, but the body remains. Well meaning relatives bury it in the dirt, or set it on fire, because they don't know what else to do with it. It's just trash that needs to be cleared away. But it remains long after the moment of your death. Praise Jesus!
There is no soul to die. I appreciate the humor, really, but suggesting the least bit of "soul" just encourages the crazies.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 21, 2017, 04:30:59 AM
There is no soul to die. I appreciate the humor, really, but suggesting the least bit of "soul" just encourages the crazies.
I'm sorry...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 21, 2017, 04:30:59 AM
There is no soul to die. I appreciate the humor, really, but suggesting the least bit of "soul" just encourages the crazies.
Just say "consciousness".
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 21, 2017, 08:03:50 AM
Just say "consciousness".
The soul is consciousness and the addition of a bunch of make believe that we came up with on our own. Really, the only thing that counts is consciousness. Take that out, and you wouldn't care one iota about your soul.
Quote from: SGOS on April 21, 2017, 08:18:17 AM
The soul is consciousness and the addition of a bunch of make believe that we came up with on our own. Really, the only thing that counts is consciousness. Take that out, and you wouldn't care one iota about your soul.
And the fact that some people seem to go through life completely unconscious further reduces any "value" it may have.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 21, 2017, 08:03:50 AM
Just say "consciousness".
If we were just trying to be technically correct all the time, things would start sounding really weird. Saying "I love you with all of my heart" just sounds better than "This particular part of my brain calculates that you will be a good candidate for baring healthy and bright children, so it chooses you!" I used to choose not to use the word soul because of it's connection to religion, but once I got over the anger phase of atheism, I started using it again, and I think it's a really beautiful word.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 21, 2017, 11:17:26 AM
If we were just trying to be technically correct all the time, things would start sounding really weird. Saying "I love you with all of my heart" just sounds better than "This particular part of my brain calculates that you will be a good candidate for baring healthy and bright children, so it chooses you!" I used to choose not to use the word soul because of it's connection to religion, but once I got over the anger phase of atheism, I started using it again, and I think it's a really beautiful word.
Yeah? Well, my brickbats are fahrfennuggen.
Quote from: SGOS on April 21, 2017, 08:18:17 AM
The soul is consciousness and the addition of a bunch of make believe that we came up with on our own. Really, the only thing that counts is consciousness. Take that out, and you wouldn't care one iota about your soul.
Consciousness is the farts from your intestines (spiritus). It is the other 99% that is mostly you.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 21, 2017, 08:03:50 AM
Just say "consciousness".
Descartes popularized the word "mind" in place of "spirit" because of the French Inquisition. It means the ability to think .. he didn't consider the rest of consciousness to be that important. Thinkers are like that.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 21, 2017, 08:03:50 AM
Just say "consciousness".
Consciousness and soul are not the same. Soul is religious crap.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM
Consciousness and soul are not the same. Soul is religious crap.
I meant as a substitute for the woo word.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 24, 2017, 05:01:32 AM
Consciousness and soul are not the same. Soul is religious crap.
My dictionary says that soul can also mean 'a person's inner nature' or simply ' a person'.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 24, 2017, 01:18:03 PM
My dictionary says that soul can also mean 'a person's inner nature' or simply ' a person'.
Problem with language. Too many words, and each word has too many meanings ... it is like ... a dictionary is a futile effort, like trying to catch water in a sieve!
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 21, 2017, 08:55:39 AM
And the fact that some people seem to go through life completely unconscious further reduces any "value" it may have.
Yeah, some people are so oblivious in life that they probably won't even notice when they've slipped into the eternal oblivion of death...
Quote from: Baruch on April 24, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
Problem with language. Too many words, and each word has too many meanings ... it is like ... a dictionary is a futile effort, like trying to catch water in a sieve!
Hold up, hold up...
Just a moment.
Exactly what do you mean with 'water' in this context?
;-)
Water ya talkin' aboot? :taz:
Usually, in my outlook, I approach so much stuff with cynicism and humor, since I know theres so much bad in the world, the only way I deal with the bad is with those tools, and try and take the good where it comes. This is why I usually just don't think of death as best I can, yet I can remember when young being faced with the thought of death, the fear it gave me, not in my own, but people I love, dying. I remember when I was like 9, and thinking of some day, my mum dying, and busting into tears, where she reassured me she would be around for a long time.
I've been through family and friends dying, and while it gives to experience in what you expect, your never really prepared how your deal with it, since you are always changing, probably people you know dying is part of that. I first faced death when a school friend of mine died, and was so shocked by it, I ran home from school alone, and was found by my teacher, who helped me deal with it. Next was my dog, who was put down early, then my cat who lived till he was 18.
The first real family member to die that effected me was my grandmother, since I was so young when my grandpa died I didn't know how to feel about it then. When I saw my grandmother on the bed in the funeral home, she looked nothing like the woman who I visited all the time, the smiling sweet old lady, she was now a pale withered husk, and it stuck with me, seeing someone i loved become that. That really was the first real time I think I was faced with death.
When my dad died several years ago, I went to see him in the hospice before and after he died, and it looked like he was just sleeping. Maybe that was better, after my experience with seeing my nan like that, I didn't want to see my dad as a pale husk.
Thats been my experience with death anyway, I felt like I kind of came late to experience it, probably my mum shielding me from it, but like say, I don't think anyone is ever prepared for it, its just the kind of person your shaped into as you grow in how you deal with it.
I think though, when it comes to my own death, whenever that will be, I fear the idea of being on a hospital bed, alone, without people I love around me. My grandma and dad died alone, because it happened when we were away from the hospice, and couldn't get there in time to be with them, and that really is something I fear. I'm not going to have children, though I have my nephews and brother and my boyfriends. I suppose whatever will be will be.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 25, 2017, 05:25:01 PM
Hold up, hold up...
Just a moment.
Exactly what do you mean with 'water' in this context?
;-)
Water is not a problem--what I'm uncertain about is how he used 'in a'.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6d/71/fd/6d71fd08ed7ac3619ef22b8ffcb6d581.jpg)
This is the after-life, here and now, that is why it sucks. Heaven isn't as high, nor hell so low ... as we expect. Valuing this ... is indeed a problem. But I continue my struggle.
Quote from: Munch on April 25, 2017, 07:11:59 PM
Usually, in my outlook, I approach so much stuff with cynicism and humor, since I know theres so much bad in the world, the only way I deal with the bad is with those tools, and try and take the good where it comes. This is why I usually just don't think of death as best I can, yet I can remember when young being faced with the thought of death, the fear it gave me, not in my own, but people I love, dying. I remember when I was like 9, and thinking of some day, my mum dying, and busting into tears, where she reassured me she would be around for a long time.
I've been through family and friends dying, and while it gives to experience in what you expect, your never really prepared how your deal with it, since you are always changing, probably people you know dying is part of that. I first faced death when a school friend of mine died, and was so shocked by it, I ran home from school alone, and was found by my teacher, who helped me deal with it. Next was my dog, who was put down early, then my cat who lived till he was 18.
The first real family member to die that effected me was my grandmother, since I was so young when my grandpa died I didn't know how to feel about it then. When I saw my grandmother on the bed in the funeral home, she looked nothing like the woman who I visited all the time, the smiling sweet old lady, she was now a pale withered husk, and it stuck with me, seeing someone i loved become that. That really was the first real time I think I was faced with death.
When my dad died several years ago, I went to see him in the hospice before and after he died, and it looked like he was just sleeping. Maybe that was better, after my experience with seeing my nan like that, I didn't want to see my dad as a pale husk.
Thats been my experience with death anyway, I felt like I kind of came late to experience it, probably my mum shielding me from it, but like say, I don't think anyone is ever prepared for it, its just the kind of person your shaped into as you grow in how you deal with it.
I think though, when it comes to my own death, whenever that will be, I fear the idea of being on a hospital bed, alone, without people I love around me. My grandma and dad died alone, because it happened when we were away from the hospice, and couldn't get there in time to be with them, and that really is something I fear. I'm not going to have children, though I have my nephews and brother and my boyfriends. I suppose whatever will be will be.
All living things die. Most in pain, some in terror. Some eaten alive. I'll take a calm hospital bed...
Quote from: Cavebear on May 09, 2017, 07:50:26 AM
All living things die. Most in pain, some in terror. Some eaten alive. I'll take a calm hospital bed...
I'm hoping for a sunny day in nature lying on my back looking up through a canopy of trees at the sky. I used to say I wanted to be mauled by a grizzly bear, but that was a failed attempt to convey an outdoor event of a manly nature. But the only response I ever got was, "Eww," so I changed it to a more peaceful venue, possibly in a bed of wildflowers next to a babbling brook. But as I get older, it's more likely that I'll be discovered slumped over my computer desk @ atheistforums.com writing a response to Drew.
My doctors keep saying "How is it you're still alive?" I'm running out of ways to die.
Quote from: SGOS on May 09, 2017, 08:41:48 AM
But as I get older, it's more likely that I'll be discovered slumped over my computer desk @ atheistforums.com writing a response to Drew.
Ha! Dat funny shit there.
Quote from: SGOS on May 09, 2017, 08:41:48 AM
I'm hoping for a sunny day in nature lying on my back looking up through a canopy of trees at the sky. I used to say I wanted to be mauled by a grizzly bear, but that was a failed attempt to convey an outdoor event of a manly nature. But the only response I ever got was, "Eww," so I changed it to a more peaceful venue, possibly in a bed of wildflowers next to a babbling brook. But as I get older, it's more likely that I'll be discovered slumped over my computer desk @ atheistforums.com writing a response to Drew.
Even worse, there will be typos in your last response... ;)
We don't know when will it happen and I must agree I don't have any plan at all. I just live my life the way I want to be and hey I don't want to be stress just because of the fact that we will all die someday. Nothing is constant and that's it.
Quote from: SGOS on May 09, 2017, 08:41:48 AM...But as I get older, it's more likely that I'll be discovered slumped over my computer desk @ atheistforums.com writing a response to Drew.
I have to echo aitm, about this one...I am
still laughing. :histerical:
Stock some pills. Going out numb is better than going out in pain and gasping for breath. And I'm debating going out listening to Firesign Theatre or Canon in D Major.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 07:08:46 AM
Stock some pills. Going out numb is better than going out in pain and gasping for breath. And I'm debating going out listening to Firesign Theatre or Canon in D Major.
o/` Oh blinding light / Oh light that blinds / I cannot see / Look out for me! o/`
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 07:08:46 AM
Stock some pills. Going out numb is better than going out in pain and gasping for breath. And I'm debating going out listening to Firesign Theatre or Canon in D Major.
Or get a source for insulin.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 14, 2017, 10:56:30 AM
Or get a source for insulin.
Whatever overdose is most painless...
Quiet, they'll stop you!
Quote from: Cavebear on July 14, 2017, 08:28:52 PM
Quiet, they'll stop you!
Or work against the Clinton Crime Family ... an 81 year old Republican operative was "arkancided" in Chicago recently.
I was Rx'd oxycontin back in 2007. They got the label wrong and I was taking 270 mgs. every eight hours. The second dose sent me into respiratory arrest and I drove myself to the hospital (which was literally within sight of my house) on stored air. The ER people put a trach tube in my throat on the floor of the waiting room while I was awake. Smarted a bit.
But other than that the OD was really quite nice. Not recommending it, of course, asphyxiation isn't for everybody.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 15, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
I was Rx'd oxycontin back in 2007. They got the label wrong and I was taking 270 mgs. every eight hours. The second dose sent me into respiratory arrest and I drove myself to the hospital (which was literally within sight of my house) on stored air. The ER people put a trach tube in my throat on the floor of the waiting room while I was awake. Smarted a bit.
But other than that the OD was really quite nice. Not recommending it, of course, asphyxiation isn't for everybody.
Sorry you suffered from malpractice. Did you get a million bucks for it? Should have.
Quote from: simplyalex on July 11, 2017, 09:11:21 PM
We don't know when will it happen and I must agree I don't have any plan at all. I just live my life the way I want to be and hey I don't want to be stress just because of the fact that we will all die someday. Nothing is constant and that's it.
When you think about it, of all the things that can change your life for better or worse, death is the one thing that will have the smallest impact to you personally. Someone else's death can cause you great pain, grief, and may even alter your standard of living. But with your own death, all threats, personal achievements, and matters beyond your control simply cease to exist. To an outsider, it would appear that death has altered your circumstances quite dramatically. But to you, all circumstances good or bad are of absolutely no consequence.
But the pain won't really end until the estate taxes have been paid. ;-)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 16, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
But the pain won't really end until the estate taxes have been paid. ;-)
Estate taxes in the US mostly occur during the decline of the elderly, pre-death. But then assisted living and nursing home, shouldn't be free. Medicare and Medicaid don't cover what you think they cover. Like most government programs ... they are "bait and switch".
Estate taxes per se, today only apply to larger estates than most people have. And the wealthy have tax lawyers to protect their assets. Gotta keep the Harvard/Yale aristocracy going.
Do you EVER know what you're talking about?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 16, 2017, 11:46:12 AM
Do you EVER know what you're talking about?
I have been dealing with assisted living, nursing home, and estate legalities for over 4 years now (in US). Do you EVER have anything good to say about anyone? My empirical experience trumps any pseudo-rational things you have to say ... in those areas that apply.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 16, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
But the pain won't really end until the estate taxes have been paid. ;-)
Estate taxes are paid by only the most extremely wealthy. About $5.5 million and above. Does that affect you? It doesn't affect me either.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 03:18:19 AM
Estate taxes are paid by only the most extremely wealthy. About $5.5 million and above. Doe that affect you? It doesn't affect me either.
Correct .. but there are plenty of other taxes and expenses, particularly expenses ... that aren't covered by Uncle Spam.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 16, 2017, 11:46:12 AM
Do you EVER know what you're talking about?
If you are referring to something Baruch said, "probably not".
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 09:17:57 AM
If you are referring to something Baruch said, "probably not".
Horrible fate ... late in life the Cavebear fell into a vat of Nair ... came out looking like a giant chihuahua ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on July 15, 2017, 11:33:54 PM
Sorry you suffered from malpractice. Did you get a million bucks for it? Should have.
There's a $250,000 cap on malpractice suits, I think.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:46:55 PM
There's a $250,000 cap on malpractice suits, I think.
What if I don't want to wear that cap? I wear a yarmulka ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 18, 2017, 05:46:55 PM
There's a $250,000 cap on malpractice suits, I think.
No amount of money is safe from a jury.
I just dont think about death. Mostly I go into a fantasy world that if shown would make me out to be a 1st class hypocrite because in the world I create a universe of fan fiction and things I imagine. Everyone says I should write the book but if I do i think I would create a book that crosses between "To Reign in Hell", "The Lord of the Rings" every religious book or text ever, and a fuck ton of other shit. Now I think about it could I be schizo and not know it? lol
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 22, 2017, 11:51:09 PMEveryone says I should write the book but if I do i think I would create a book that crosses between "To Reign in Hell", "The Lord of the Rings" every religious book or text ever, and a fuck ton of other shit.
I would probably read the hell out of that.
Probably not schizo, unless you post to AF with two different identities ;-)
I think that the whole concept of death, especially when my grandmother died a few years ago, led me back to a faith life. Even though I knew logically, that I no longer believed, I still went back to a faith life...for comfort. Out of fear. Out of habit. Idk, but fast forward to a few weeks ago, and I no longer want a false comfort. Because a false sense of comfort will never prepare you for reality. I do wonder though about death and the how and when of it. Not sure which is more tormenting...thinking about how I might die or when. I just hope that I don't waste anymore of my life than i already have and live out the time I have to its fullest. I just don't want a painful, prolonged death.
It just seems like a matter of ''taking turns,'' though. Like it was my grandmother's ''turn,'' and eventually...some day...it will be my ''turn.'' Like taking turns at bat in a baseball game. Kind of eerie.
Sisco (character in DS9) thought of reality as a game of baseball (in explaining temporality to the non-temporal beings in the wormhole to the Gamma quadrant).
Your feelings are pretty much shared by all human beings. Congratulations, you are human. And I think that is all that is expected of anyone.
My POV? That we simply are writing our own stories, but not independently of other people, or of fundamental limitations and with mistakes. Write the best story which is your life. Choose wisely. Whatever story you write, in the end, is yours to keep.
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2017, 06:51:20 AM
... Whatever story you write, in the end, is yours to keep.
Until you die, then all bets are off.
You've made your mark just by being alive, and your actions will echo throughout eternity for the time to come; but like any echo, it will fade away.
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 25, 2017, 03:18:48 PM
Until you die, then all bets are off.
You've made your mark just by being alive, and your actions will echo throughout eternity for the time to come; but like any echo, it will fade away.
The good that men do, often dies with them ...
If an afterlife exists, I will request oblivion as my afterlife.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 25, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
If an afterlife exists, I will request oblivion as my afterlife.
Do you really think the movie was that good???
I request The Wizard Of OZ as mine ;-) We aren't in Kansas anymore.
I request Field of Dreams--it suggests a loop back into baseball lore---never a bad thing.
Quote from: Deidre32 on July 24, 2017, 09:25:13 PM
I think that the whole concept of death, especially when my grandmother died a few years ago, led me back to a faith life. Even though I knew logically, that I no longer believed, I still went back to a faith life...for comfort. Out of fear. Out of habit. Idk, but fast forward to a few weeks ago, and I no longer want a false comfort. Because a false sense of comfort will never prepare you for reality. I do wonder though about death and the how and when of it. Not sure which is more tormenting...thinking about how I might die or when. I just hope that I don't waste anymore of my life than i already have and live out the time I have to its fullest. I just don't want a painful, prolonged death.
It just seems like a matter of ''taking turns,'' though. Like it was my grandmother's ''turn,'' and eventually...some day...it will be my ''turn.'' Like taking turns at bat in a baseball game. Kind of eerie.
You will live until you die. And when you die, you will be as unaware of self or existance as that ant you stepped on yesterday or the millions of skin cells that flaked off you to be eaten by microbes all around you.
Dead is Dead! It the the dying process that is awkward and confusing as our brains slowly lose coherency internally and loss of sensory perception of the outside world.
Have a nice day...
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-expect-death-to-be-nothingness-and-for-removing-me-from-all-possible-fears-of-death-isaac-asimov-57-52-88.jpg)
I actually find this kind of comforting, it reminds me how everything is on borrowed time, even the stars and planets will die out one day, as if they were never here. It makes the things we treasure day by day all the more meaningful, and our reward is finally being able to escape all fears, pains and doubts
Quote from: Munch on August 11, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-expect-death-to-be-nothingness-and-for-removing-me-from-all-possible-fears-of-death-isaac-asimov-57-52-88.jpg)
I actually find this kind of comforting, it reminds me how everything is on borrowed time, even the stars and planets will die out one day, as if they were never here. It makes the things we treasure day by day all the more meaningful, and our reward is finally being able to escape all fears, pains and doubts
Easing unnecessary worry ... since Epicurus.
I like Asimov's attitude toward death:
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-my-doctor-told-me-i-had-only-six-minutes-to-live-i-wouldn-t-brood-i-d-type-a-little-isaac-asimov-1-17-03.jpg)
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-it-has-always-been-my-ambition-to-die-in-harness-with-my-head-face-down-on-a-keyboard-isaac-asimov-137-86-12.jpg)
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 14, 2017, 04:38:31 PM
I like Asimov's attitude toward death:
Interestingly, if you read his autobiography (I forget which volume, I *think* it's
I. Asimov), he seems to have had a fear only of dying before turning 70. He thought 70 was a fair run and anything less was not enough.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 18, 2017, 03:18:19 AM
Estate taxes are paid by only the most extremely wealthy. About $5.5 million and above. Does that affect you? It doesn't affect me either.
I have it all worked out. Everything goes to the wolves, literally.
Quote from: trdsf on August 14, 2017, 06:26:13 PM
Interestingly, if you read his autobiography (I forget which volume, I *think* it's I. Asimov), he seems to have had a fear only of dying before turning 70. He thought 70 was a fair run and anything less was not enough.
Three score and ten, how biblical.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 14, 2017, 07:29:37 PM
Three score and ten, how biblical.
He wasn't religiously Jewish, but he had no problem with being culturally Jewish -- and of course among his zillion books, he did write a biblical concordance.
Quote from: trdsf on August 14, 2017, 10:35:58 PM
He wasn't religiously Jewish, but he had no problem with being culturally Jewish -- and of course among his zillion books, he did write a biblical concordance.
The first concordance I read ;-)
Quote from: trdsf on August 14, 2017, 06:26:13 PM
Interestingly, if you read his autobiography (I forget which volume, I *think* it's I. Asimov), he seems to have had a fear only of dying before turning 70. He thought 70 was a fair run and anything less was not enough.
I read
In Memory Yet Green when I was a teen - so many decades ago! I barely remember any of it, but I do recall it was a very good read. How could it be otherwise?
Quote from: trdsf on August 14, 2017, 10:35:58 PM
He wasn't religiously Jewish, but he had no problem with being culturally Jewish -- and of course among his zillion books, he did write a biblical concordance.
He wrote more than a concordance! He wrote
Asimov's Guide to the Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov%27s_Guide_to_the_Bible) - both Old and New Testaments.
Possibly the best such guide ever written - it's all about the history of the people and places of the Bible.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 15, 2017, 03:27:37 PM
He wrote more than a concordance! He wrote Asimov's Guide to the Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov%27s_Guide_to_the_Bible) - both Old and New Testaments.
Possibly the best such guide ever written - it's all about the history of the people and places of the Bible.
I got it as one book, I think.
I had it, once upon a time, but I couldn't keep up with it due to my nomadic lifestyle.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
I had it, once upon a time, but I couldn't keep up with it due to my nomadic lifestyle.
Didn't fit in your camel bags?
I lost about 300 books that time. I recently was forced to move out of my camp/home, and I only had to leave about 150 books this time. I did manage to take a few of the best ones with me, though.
Being a nomadic individual I lost many books on a couple differing occasions, and since then I have stopped buying them and collecting them. Anything I want to read, I can find online or check out from the local library.
I seem to have abibliophobia - the fear of running out of reading material.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 16, 2017, 06:11:31 PM
I seem to have abibliophobia - the fear of running out of reading material.
Must be catching ;-) Had the same problem my whole life. I used to support the library, when I was a kid, thru college, even later taking my Master's. I love college bookstores too. But today, Amazon will have to do for me. Two of our book stores in my town have closed.
I theorize that libraries will one day go extinct and that hardcovers/paperbacks will only ever be found in museums as relics of an ancient past. Everyone will be reading everything and anything on tablets.
Quote from: Sorginak on August 16, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
I theorize that libraries will one day go extinct and that hardcovers/paperbacks will only ever be found in museums as relics of an ancient past. Everyone will be reading everything and anything on tablets.
Think you are right. But for me, there nothing like a book in the hand.
Quote from: Sorginak on August 16, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
I theorize that libraries will one day go extinct and that hardcovers/paperbacks will only ever be found in museums as relics of an ancient past. Everyone will be reading everything and anything on tablets.
Already happening ... but with vidiots ... reading will soon be passe too. And soon after that, humanity. Socrates said that reading was the death of education ... because you no longer had to memorize.
I liked Asimov a lot better before he showed up at my college campus for a free speech with a face red as a beet, slurring his words and making no sense!
Three years ago I had major cardiac surgery.
At the time I was ready to “goâ€, not caring which way the surgery ends.
Had to wait a whole year for the surgery, unable to do anything. Lost the will to live.
Well, thanks to the surgeon, I am still here. For a while.
Quote from: pr126 on August 17, 2017, 05:22:03 AM
Three years ago I had major cardiac surgery.
At the time I was ready to “goâ€, not caring which way the surgery ends.
Had to wait a whole year for the surgery, unable to do anything. Lost the will to live.
Well, thanks to the surgeon, I am still here. For a while.
Well, the world (in general) would be about the same with or without you. If you vanished tomorrow, I might not notice. The same for me.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 05:59:13 AM
Well, the world (in general) would be about the same with or without you. If you vanished tomorrow, I might not notice. The same for me.
If you were missing, you would notice ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fczItbbB-OA
Quote from: Sal1981 on August 17, 2017, 04:09:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fczItbbB-OA
OK, that surprised me. Cool!
Quote from: Sal1981 on August 17, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
seemed appropriate.
Yeah, I'll probably imagine doing something great my end too. Or be mercifully hit by a bus, which would be a lot easier on everyone.
A. "Hey, didja hear Cavebear got hit by a bus"?
B. "Really? Huh"...
A. "Yeah, so, ya wanna get a pizza?"
Or
A. "Hey, didja hear Cavebear got hit by a bus"?
B. "Which one?"
A. "The B-12"
B. " No doofus, which Cavebear? I know 6!"
LOL!
Quote from: Sal1981 on August 17, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
seemed appropriate.
But dark humor. OK ... usually people die in their sleep, all alone. Having family around when they pass, is cliche.
I have no fear of death. The method might be a bit dicey, but actual death? Ehhh...not a problem.
My preferred method would be to be walking down the street and have a big heavy safe fall on me without warning. Someone 16 blocks away peeling my eyeball off their shirt wondering where the hell that came from..
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2017, 06:19:51 PM
Must be catching ;-) Had the same problem my whole life. I used to support the library, when I was a kid, thru college, even later taking my Master's. I love college bookstores too. But today, Amazon will have to do for me. Two of our book stores in my town have closed.
I seem to recall, when I read some Schopenhauer, that he advised against reading - he preferred thinking, instead.
Ah, yes, I found it on Google:
QuoteReading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance. You should read only when your own thoughts dry up, which will of course happen frequently enough even to the best heads; but to banish your own thoughts so as to take up a book is a sin against the holy ghost; it is like deserting untrammeled nature to look at a herbarium or engravings of landscapes.
But since I don't believe in the holy ghost, I wasn't concerned about sinning against it...plus, my thoughts dry up quite often.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 17, 2017, 05:59:13 AM
If you vanished tomorrow, I might not notice. The same for me.
Well, I'm pretty sure that if you were gone tomorrow, you wouldn't notice. But we'd miss you terribly.
Is it better to have lived and lost than to have never lived at all?
Death is rather frightening if you feel entitled to life. From a different vantage point, death is a privilege because it's only served to those who sprang into existence in the first place. I am grateful for a chance at life in this peculiar space, even though it is likely to sift through my fingers. This realization has humbled me immensely.
Some people consider that it may be better to never have been born at all, since only through living can we experience pain and misery. This is called "antinatalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism)" and is espoused by philosophers such as David Benatar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism#David_Benatar). I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I've had my share of both pain and pleasure. But I don't recall being bothered at all before I was born, and I expect to spend eternity not being bothered once I'm out of here. I just try to have a good time with what little time I've got left.
Quote from: SciBorg on August 18, 2017, 05:11:20 PM
Is it better to have lived and lost than to have never lived at all?
Death is rather frightening if you feel entitled to life. From a different vantage point, death is a privilege because it's only served to those who sprang into existence in the first place. I am grateful for a chance at life in this peculiar space, even though it is likely to sift through my fingers. This realization has humbled me immensely.
Or, as one of the proverbs at the end of an episode of 'Welcome to Night Vale' succinctly put it, "Death is only the end if you assume the story is about you."
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 05:44:30 PM
Some people consider that it may be better to never have been born at all, since only through living can we experience pain and misery. This is called "antinatalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism)" and is espoused by philosophers such as David Benatar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism#David_Benatar). I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I've had my share of both pain and pleasure. But I don't recall being bothered at all before I was born, and I expect to spend eternity not being bothered once I'm out of here. I just try to have a good time with what little time I've got left.
I can understand how someone could not be so enthusiastic to wake up every morning. However, this is an individual matter. I think it's amazing to be able to experience life.
Im happy to entertain different points of views. I will look into that shortly. Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: trdsf on August 19, 2017, 02:29:00 PM
Or, as one of the proverbs at the end of an episode of 'Welcome to Night Vale' succinctly put it, "Death is only the end if you assume the story is about you."
That's an excellent quote. I'm storing that in my memory!
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2017, 04:42:05 PM
I seem to recall, when I read some Schopenhauer, that he advised against reading - he preferred thinking, instead.
Ah, yes, I found it on Google:
But since I don't believe in the holy ghost, I wasn't concerned about sinning against it...plus, my thoughts dry up quite often.
Another religious fanatic. They can't imagine human live on its own.