I know I kind of already asked this in my visions of hell question, but it is eating me up inside. I was raised religiously since I was born and I always believed in hell. I do believe in evolution, I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old, I disregard most of the bible, and STILL I fear hell and it is very annoying. I guess these youtube videos and things that I read about are too much. Do any of you on here know if Christians believe that they would see demons in they go to hell? These so called experiences have a lot of people saying they saw demons who mocked God. I'm just wondering how someone could hallucinate such detailed imagery and why so many people have claimed to see hell and it scares the living daylights out of me. What do you guys think are the odds hell exists, how can I get rid of this fear? If these visions and NDEs were all debunked I would be an atheist but they scare me too much!
I've literally drawn pentagrams in my own blood and did the whole hail satan shebang. Nothing happens. It's all bullshit, mang.
The whole concept of Hell is so ridiculous, I can't even take it seriously any more. I'm expected to believe that a perfectly loving God decided that it was just to punish someone with eternal torment for not picking the right religion out of thousands, without any evidence to help us find the one true religion? Mmmk. And I'm expect to believe that when my body dies, my eternal soul will be transported to another dimension, where I will suffer unimaginable pain despite lacking a body with nerve endings? And despite being thrown into lava pits and poked with sharp objects, I will remain in one piece in order to be able to suffer eternally? Right...
It's just silly and doesn't make any sense. Hell is just an invention to play on your fears and control you. See through this ruse and move on.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 01, 2017, 01:48:02 AM
I've literally drawn pentagrams in my own blood and did the whole hail satan shebang. Nothing happens. It's all bullshit, mang.
Doesn't work on goody-two-shoes ;-) To become a hard-ass, you have to have led a life of people kicking your-ass, and you not liking it.
Quote from: Manga on April 01, 2017, 01:45:25 AM
I know I kind of already asked this in my visions of hell question, but it is eating me up inside. I was raised religiously since I was born and I always believed in hell. I do believe in evolution, I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old, I disregard most of the bible, and STILL I fear hell and it is very annoying. I guess these youtube videos and things that I read about are too much. Do any of you on here know if Christians believe that they would see demons in they go to hell? These so called experiences have a lot of people saying they saw demons who mocked God. I'm just wondering how someone could hallucinate such detailed imagery and why so many people have claimed to see hell and it scares the living daylights out of me. What do you guys think are the odds hell exists, how can I get rid of this fear? If these visions and NDEs were all debunked I would be an atheist but they scare me too much!
I know some Christians. But I am not one of them. But I accept what people tell me, because I like being naive. My best friend, she hears angels. And she believes that demons are hostile aliens from another dimension. So she can reconcile science fiction with theology.
On the other hand. I have had involvement with nuclear weapons technology. I have seen imaginary portrayals of what that kind of thing does to people, as well as post nuke Japan pictures. I can envision what that is like, anytime I close my eyes and choose to see it. Not unlike the Hell that Constantine (fictional character, demon fighter) sees when he visits Hell.
I hope you can overcome your fear. I hope I can overcome my guilt. Do good, not evil, and there is less reason to be concerned with Hell. It doesn't have to be eternal, to be real bad.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 01, 2017, 01:48:02 AM
I've literally drawn pentagrams in my own blood and did the whole hail satan shebang. Nothing happens. It's all bullshit, mang.
I tried witchcraft when I was in my late teens, tried to make it stop raining for gay pride. That's when I knew witchcraft was Bullshit.
Quote from: Munch on April 01, 2017, 03:05:45 AM
I tried witchcraft when I was in my late teens, tried to make it stop raining for gay pride. That's when I knew witchcraft was Bullshit.
Were you cross-dressed as Witch Hazel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgtSI-LVjIE
At that age, I was pretty good at Classic Tarot.
Quote from: Baruch on April 01, 2017, 03:23:58 AM
Were you cross-dressed as Witch Hazel?
https://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=NgtSI-LVjIE
At that age, I was pretty good at Classic Tarot.
I more followed the willow rosenberg method of sweater top and bell bottom pants
Quote from: Munch on April 01, 2017, 03:53:52 AM
I more followed the willow rosenberg method of sweater top and bell bottom pants
Cutting your hair too short ...
You went for More-Lock but got Less-Lock instead? You paid too much for that du, dude.
Quote from: Manga on April 01, 2017, 01:45:25 AM
If these visions and NDEs were all debunked I would be an atheist but they scare me too much!
Once again. The brain does funny things when starved of oxygen.
Smoke more weed.
Hell is simply a form of extortion where the victim volunteers the funds. The only "products" churches have are "salvation" and "damnation". Neither of which can be proven to actually exist. But hope for one and fear of the other keeps the Vatican's seventeen art galleries stocked.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 01, 2017, 09:17:57 AM
Hell is simply a form of extortion where the victim volunteers the funds. The only "products" churches have are "salvation" and "damnation". Neither of which can be proven to actually exist. But hope for one and fear of the other keeps the Vatican's seventeen art galleries stocked.
You forgot penance and Purgatory. That was true, in the Late Roman Empire under Emperor Theodosius ... there was only one allowed religion ... his. Slap me shocked! This was a couple generations after Emperor Constantine, who made Christianity licit (but only the version he approved of, at the bishops conclave he approved, with bishops he approved of). Initially other religions were still licit. Not every religion, the Romans being totalitarian, they always reserved the right to punish you for disobedience, and practicing atheism, or a non-approved religion, was punishable, eventually by death. When Constantine made Christianity licit, he basically nationalized them ... only priests that he approved of could practice, and all of them became civil servants. That is how we got Sunday as an official holy day ... because as a Solar pagan, that was his favorite day of the week. In this Orthodox Christianity (primarily created by Constantine) there was salvation only thru the Church, salvation wasn't optional, and if you sinned, you had to do penance, or be kicked out, eventually in a monoculture, to be shunned by one and all. Confession hadn't been invented yet, but that was a great addition ... confessing to an agent of the State, once a week. The Irish invented that. Gotta control the narrative, in dictatorship-ville. Now we have Facebook.
So no, not just an ideological lock on people, but the authority of the State to enforce conformity. Something all us non-conformists, loath.
Quote from: Manga on April 01, 2017, 01:45:25 AM
I know I kind of already asked this in my visions of hell question, but it is eating me up inside.
It's only been a couple of months since you asked for help. It took me years to extricate myself from the bullshit, so your fear doesn't surprise me. Some people have sudden flashes of insight. For others it's a slow awakening. I can sense your fear, but it's just an artifact left over from your days of indoctrination. Mine went away. I think yours will too. But probably not soon.
I'm 66, I was an atheist at 12. I don't have a whole lot of doubts. I escaped all the BS a LONG time ago.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/715/163/bfc.jpg)
Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2017, 06:21:55 AM
I'm 66, I was an atheist at 12. I don't have a whole lot of doubts. I escaped all the BS a LONG time ago.
You can't be 66. I'm 66. Pick another number.
Quote from: Manga on April 01, 2017, 01:45:25 AM
I know I kind of already asked this in my visions of hell question, but it is eating me up inside. I was raised religiously since I was born and I always believed in hell. I do believe in evolution, I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old, I disregard most of the bible, and STILL I fear hell and it is very annoying. I guess these youtube videos and things that I read about are too much. Do any of you on here know if Christians believe that they would see demons in they go to hell? These so called experiences have a lot of people saying they saw demons who mocked God. I'm just wondering how someone could hallucinate such detailed imagery and why so many people have claimed to see hell and it scares the living daylights out of me. What do you guys think are the odds hell exists, how can I get rid of this fear? If these visions and NDEs were all debunked I would be an atheist but they scare me too much!
Mocking God? Where, when, how, sign me up I'll mock with the best. If it sends me to Hell I hope, as I have been assured, there is wine, women, song and the best food in the universe.
Whoops
Just remembered I don't believe in all that religious stuff. Damn (https://i1.wp.com/i.imgur.com/V1vEZ07.gif?zoom=2), for a minute there I thought I was destined for somewhere after I die (or as someone said cease to exist). Oh, well, off to bed.
Kolasin aionion does not mean eternal punishment, it means age long chastisement for corrective purpose. Kolasin comes from a root meaning to prune trees as in an orchard for best yeild.
The hell experience is neither maliscious nor eternal, it is the burning off of the crap we crust our souls with during incarnational sojourns. It's is not God that even "punishes" it's the recoil of our soul in seeing how we really affect people without our perspective/ego bias.
It is resistance to the flow of Consciouness/Truth that creates the heat.
Lesson: burn your own trash before you get taken out with it.
If you are looking for something from the Bible, 1 Cor 11:31 "If we judge ourselves correctly we would not be judged."
God is not a tyrant. Peace be upon you. :)
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 06:21:41 PM
God is not a tyrant.
of course not, this is why he demands that women be killed for being raped....
Quote from: aitm on April 14, 2017, 07:42:15 PM
of course not, this is why he demands that women be killed for being raped....
Ask a believer to tell you about God...and they tell you a lot more about themselves.
The idea of God has been routinely abused by those in power for the purpose of crowd control.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 08:10:49 PM
Ask a believer to tell you about God...and they tell you a lot more about themselves.
The idea of God has been routinely abused by those in power for the purpose of crowd control.
In the Quran, Allah says that Allah will approach each person, in the form that he/she expects. Less mind blowing that way.
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
In the Quran, Allah says that Allah will approach each person, in the form that he/she expects. Less mind blowing that way.
I seem to remember a similar adage from Hinduism.
Ever try and pack a lightening bolt into a light bulb? That's shits got to be stepped down or bye bye filament!
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 08:10:49 PMAsk a believer to tell you about God...and they tell you a lot more about themselves.
There's a reason for that. To a certain extent, the God is modeled on the believer. It certainly explains why their opinions line up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 14, 2017, 09:08:44 PM
There's a reason for that. To a certain extent, the God is modeled on the believer. It certainly explains why their opinions line up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
Conception of God as persona can't help but be super-ego projection. Man makes God in his own image all too often and that is often child like in temperament. Rediculous.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
Conception of God as persona can't help but be super-ego projection. Man makes God in his own image all too often and that is often child like in temperament. Rediculous.
Don't be too hard on ape people. At least we don't write about G-d living in trees and loving bananas ;-) Hold still ... I see a delicious lice on your fur ...
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 12:14:08 AM
Don't be too hard on ape people. At least we don't write about G-d living in trees and loving bananas ;-) Hold still ... I see a delicious lice on your fur ...
Are you picking on me? You're so considerate...*chuckle*
Ape people throw poo...even ant people think that's just nasty and uncivilized! Lol
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 12:31:37 AM
Are you picking on me? You're so considerate...*chuckle*
Ape people throw poo...even ant people think that's just nasty and uncivilized! Lol
Remember, the lead character in Antz is Jewish too ... so are you a red ant or a black ant?
Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 12:42:48 AM
Remember, the lead character in Antz is Jewish too ... so are you a red ant or a black ant?
I'm just your friendly neighborhood dung beetle, rolling up a terd, hoping to hatch a progeny I will never meet.... but I'm having a ball ;)
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 08:10:49 PM
The idea of God has been routinely abused ...
So you're quoting scripture, using it as a source of authority, but dismissing anyone else use if derogatory as.....
seems like typical behavior. Words mean certain things unless pulled from the babble where they are only allowed to be interpreted by the believer for "best variable options"
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 09:26:49 AM
So you're quoting scripture, using it as a source of authority, but dismissing anyone else use if derogatory as.....
seems like typical behavior. Words mean certain things unless pulled from the babble where they are only allowed to be interpreted by the believer for "best variable options"
A dictionary is a momentary photograph of current usage. Language is a living thing, defined by the usage to which living beings give it. This doesn't satisfy the doctrinaire or the idiological. Too loosey goosey. So I agree, anyone claiming any authority for anything (and this includes Ockham's Razor version of naturalism (all the way down)) ... are authoritarians. They all deserve a verbal bullet to the head. My "imago dei" is just as good as anyone else's.
Scripture is frequently abused, but Ananta hasn't gotten a feel for how we do things here. He will learn.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 09:26:49 AM
So you're quoting scripture, using it as a source of authority, but dismissing anyone else use if derogatory as.....
seems like typical behavior. Words mean certain things unless pulled from the babble where they are only allowed to be interpreted by the believer for "best variable options"
I view all scriptures as conglomerate rocks. There's valuable ore to find and be refined, there's also all the coprolite one could want to throw. Does browsing through the phonebook make me a yellow pagean?
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 06:25:17 PM
I view all scriptures as conglomerate rocks. There's valuable ore to find and be refined, there's also all the coprolite one could want to throw. Does browsing through the phonebook make me a yellow pagean?
Wisdom can be found anywhere. It does not mean that the hobo who speaks a sentence of wisdom is to be followed.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:26:51 PM
Wisdom can be found anywhere. It does not mean that the hobo who speaks a sentence of wisdom is to be followed.
If I followed anything but my own sense of integrity and truth, it would be inauthentic, and imho unworthy of presenting to The God. But that's just me. ;-)
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:26:51 PM
Wisdom can be found anywhere. It does not mean that the hobo who speaks a sentence of wisdom is to be followed.
Yes, the phone number scrawled in the men's bathroom ... Call XXX for a good time ... probably isn't reliable if is it a police sting.
There is ignorance and knowledge
There is understanding and confusion
There is wisdom and foolishness
Chose wisely ;-)
Quote from: Sorginak on April 15, 2017, 06:26:51 PM
Wisdom can be found anywhere. It does not mean that the hobo who speaks a sentence of wisdom is to be followed.
Or, as I've heard others put it, even a broken clock is right two times a day. The Bible is nothing special.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2017, 09:26:49 AM
So you're quoting scripture, using it as a source of authority, but dismissing anyone else use if derogatory as.....
seems like typical behavior. Words mean certain things unless pulled from the babble where they are only allowed to be interpreted by the believer for "best variable options"
No offense meant, but that first sentence was rather loose.