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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:26:20 AM

Title: If you would...
Post by: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:26:20 AM
have the power to nominate one person for President of the United States, who would it be? He/she must be alive and born in the US. Otherwise you have free range.
With more time on my hands, I shall make a list with everybody's name; let's see if one name comes up more than once.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:26:20 AM
have the power to nominate one person for President of the United States, who would it be? He/she must be alive and born in the US. Otherwise you have free range.
With more time on my hands, I shall make a list with everybody's name; let's see if one name comes up more than once.

Well, Me.  Hey, I get to vote for myself.  But then let's say Obama, Gore, Clinton (take your pick) and Charles Schumer...  I might take a flyer on Rand Paul.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:38:40 AM
Well, Me.  Hey, I get to vote for myself.  But then let's say Obama, Gore, Clinton (take your pick) and Charles Schumer...  I might take a flyer on Rand Paul.
Choose ONE! Can Obama be re-elected? I don't know what the constitution has to say about that.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 11:33:00 AM
Quote from: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:44:32 AM
Choose ONE! Can Obama be re-elected? I don't know what the constitution has to say about that.

He can't.  But you didn't specify Constitutional restrictions.  But OK, one.  I nominate Al Gore.  And only because I'M busy.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: reasonist on March 14, 2017, 10:44:32 AM
Choose ONE! Can Obama be re-elected? I don't know what the constitution has to say about that.

Obama, the Clintons and the Bush crime family are running a "alternative facts WH" several blocks from the Trump WH right now.  Elections are no longer required, thanks for playing.  Bush Jr was Clinton III and IV.  Obama was Bush Jr III and IV.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 15, 2017, 10:40:58 AM
Ooo, hm.  Hillary, of course -- she has all the necessary experience.  Marcy Kaptur, one of the great pragmatic progressives in the House comes to mind, as does Al Franken, who has built a reputation as a hard worker.  Former Iowa Senator Tom Harkin would have made a good president, I think; I was a supporter of his campaign in '92.

I think the last Republican that didn't make me want to hide behind the couch was Jon Huntsman -- so of course he didn't make it much past New Hampshire when he ran in 2012.  I'm a combination of disappointed and optimistic that he's going to be Asshole's ambassador to Russia.  Huntsman had been Obama's ambassador to China, so he has diplomatic experience.  I am bothered that he's signed on to Asshole's administration, but at the same time, if I had to pick a Republican to send to Russia as ambassador who is also least likely to have been engaged in campaign and pre-inauguration illegal meetings, it would be him.  I suspect that he accepted the post thinking 'if I don't do it, what kind of psychotic will they send in my place?'

Narrowing it down to just one, though?  I can't think of anyone on the scene right now who I think would be considered a great president.  I can think of a number of people who would be good presidents.  Thinking strategically, my own senator Sherrod Brown would help bring the Midwest back into line - yet another Midwestern pragmatic progressive.  He won't have an election back home to worry about, since his re-election campaign will be in '18.  So I'll go with that for right now, reserving the possibility of changing my mind.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sorginak on March 15, 2017, 11:21:49 AM
20 candidates who could run in 2020:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/11/16/candidates-who-could-run-democrats-and-republicans/hxdFmFwXHg64rEEaIgKa9I/story.html

Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Atheon on March 15, 2017, 11:39:21 AM
If I could appoint someone president, it would be Hillary Clinton, to piss off the Trumpeteers and the Berners. (I would also use my god-like powers for good by abolishing the Republican Party altogether.)

If I could nominate someone, though, it would be Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris. Both from my neck of the woods. Both progressive, non-establishment Dems but don't have their heads in the clouds.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 12:15:16 PM
Quote from: Atheon on March 15, 2017, 11:39:21 AM
If I could appoint someone president, it would be Hillary Clinton, to piss off the Trumpeteers and the Berners. (I would also use my god-like powers for good by abolishing the Republican Party altogether.)

If I could nominate someone, though, it would be Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris. Both from my neck of the woods. Both progressive, non-establishment Dems but don't have their heads in the clouds.

You have to have the Clinton virus bad, to still hate Bernie.  Bernie was the most liberal guy available last year.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 12:41:49 PM
Elizabeth Warren.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Munch on March 15, 2017, 12:51:46 PM
Lex Luthor.

He's sophisticated, charming, knows how to handle money and power, and wants to help control the intake of illegal aliens.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Gilgamesh on March 15, 2017, 12:56:10 PM
Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Atheon on March 15, 2017, 01:24:32 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 12:15:16 PM
You have to have the Clinton virus bad, to still hate Bernie.  Bernie was the most liberal guy available last year.
He was, and I voted for him in the primaries. My peeve is the Berners who refused to vote for Clinton in the general, thereby giving us Trump. I was only for Clinton because it was down to two: Clinton or Trump.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Munch on March 15, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 15, 2017, 12:56:10 PM
Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson.

ooh now that I agree with.

(http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5829d168ca6f7ee00ec28d76/master/pass/dwayne-johnson-the-rock-president-2020.jpg)

or maybe even, president Cena?

(https://img.ifcdn.com/images/8f41bba58aea0b8de80e4c46712c46b5b26af404d0eef93b11043efeea33c415_1.jpg)

that said, these guys are entertainers, and we know full well how much dirty laundry gets revealed when someone becomes a president or even a politician, so might just ruin their image.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Jason78 on March 15, 2017, 02:41:22 PM
I would pay Neil Patrick Harris to portray his character of Barney Stinson for his eight year presidential term.   
He's always impeccably suited up, he's got a guy for everything, a sharp legal mind (he invented the bro code), and he's got incredible charisma.

(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/himym/images/8/83/Rc0JG.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130113174854)
Make america legendary again!
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 15, 2017, 03:14:18 PM
Pete Buttigieg(Boot-i-judge), mayor of South Bend Indiana. The most impeccable public servant I have seen. He was in the running for DNC chair, but dropped out at the last minute, to continue serving South Bend. The only drawback, is that an openly gay man would have about zero chance of getting elected. If anybody could work with both sides, to get things done, though, it would be Pete Buttigieg. Someone you should know.

Seriously, read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: GrinningYMIR on March 15, 2017, 03:27:22 PM
Bloomberg. Would have voted for him in a heartbeat.

Otherwise. I would like a do over of 2016 and all the candidates dying or not being there or something. Single handleslt the worst drop of candidates in my near 22 years of life
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 15, 2017, 03:45:15 PM
It's outside your 22 years, but 1988 was a pretty ratty year, candidate-wise.  Although Jackson gave the best stump speech I'd ever heard up to that point.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: FaithIsFilth on March 15, 2017, 04:44:50 PM
Bernie comes to mind although he has his flaws and I'm sure there are better choices, but none that I can really think of at the moment, but I heard Hillary wants to run again, so maybe they will find a way to make sure there are no really progressive candidates this time around to make her look bad in comparison. After Obama's recent screwing of the progressives by interfering to make sure Keith Ellison was not elected, they deserve another term of Trump, then 8 years of Cruz and 8 years of the first female president, Ivanka.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on March 15, 2017, 04:44:50 PM
Bernie comes to mind although he has his flaws and I'm sure there are better choices, but none that I can really think of at the moment, but I heard Hillary wants to run again, so maybe they will find a way to make sure there are no really progressive candidates this time around to make her look bad in comparison. After Obama's recent screwing of the progressives by interfering to make sure Keith Ellison was not elected, they deserve another term of Trump, then 8 years of Cruz and 8 years of the first female president, Ivanka.

I do not trust Ellison. He is a convert to Islam, that means he wasn't born with the religion - he chose it out of conviction. That doesn't sound very progressive to me, because Islam is the antithesis of what we stand for.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
Clinton should find some nice quiet home in the middle of nowhere, and stay the fuck there till she dies.

She's a proven loser. She couldn't even beat -- wait for it -- Trump LOL.

Keep her out of public picture and bring some new blood into the arena.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Unbeliever on March 15, 2017, 06:00:36 PM
I'd still vote for Pat Paulsen over anyone else I know...


(http://all-len-all.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/pat-paulsen.jpg)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn69wP-jD2Y
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:36:10 PM
Quote from: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
Clinton should find some nice quiet home in the middle of nowhere, and stay the fuck there till she dies.

She's a proven loser. She couldn't even beat -- wait for it -- Trump LOL.

Keep her out of public picture and bring some new blood into the arena.

Chelsea to the rescue!  Clintons, even more vile than the Kennedy family.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:38:42 PM
Quote from: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 12:41:49 PM
Elizabeth Warren.

Another sell out, like Jill Stein.  If you want a woman you can respect ... Rep Tulsi Gabbard, from Hawaii.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: GrinningYMIR on March 15, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Virtually any super Christian or Muslim should be off the list. Trump and Clinton too.

Resurrect Eisenhower. Or Jefferson
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:58:22 PM
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on March 15, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Virtually any super Christian or Muslim should be off the list. Trump and Clinton too.

Resurrect Eisenhower. Or Jefferson

Yes, Zombies have been quite popular for the last 10 years ;-)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 15, 2017, 07:03:34 PM
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on March 15, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Virtually any super Christian or Muslim should be off the list. Trump and Clinton too.

Resurrect Eisenhower. Or Jefferson
You do realize, that Eisenhower is the one responsible for both the "one nation under God" addition to the Pledge of Allegiance, and the "In God We Trust" motto on our currency.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on March 15, 2017, 07:17:56 PM
A newt. We'll name it Flippy the Newt, and policy shall be determined by what bowl he eats from. At this point I'm sure this would be seen as a massive improvement both at home and abroad.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:38:42 PM
Another sell out, like Jill Stein.  If you want a woman you can respect ... Rep Tulsi Gabbard, from Hawaii.

Sellout? How so?

I do not compare the two. Regardless of stances and extracurriculars, one needs to be pragmatic in politics. Stein isn't. She never intended to become president -- a waste of people's money, that's all. Running on third party ticket in two-party system is recipe for failure -- I wouldn't invest a dime in that campaign even if my life depended on it.

Bernie ran with two party system, then endorsed lesser of two evils. Warren endorsed lesser of two evils, too, after Democrat contender emerged. She is politically savvy; it may not be attractive to ideologues, but it would win an election.

Not very familiar with Tulsi Gabbard, so I will look into her. Thanks.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 09:17:40 PM
Bernie Sanders
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 15, 2017, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 09:17:40 PM
Bernie Sanders
I love Bernie, but I'd be reluctant to put forth someone who has already run, and lost.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Shiranu on March 15, 2017, 09:25:56 PM
Really no other choice, Joe Biden. The dude is absolute class and passion.

Al Gore is probably my back-up choice; maybe Biden/Gore ticket.

After them it's really too hard to judge... there are plenty of people who I think would make great presidents, but they aren't politicians so it's hard to know if they would be any good.

Tim Kaine also seems like an amazing person, so he can be third.

Julian Castro would be cool to see someone from San Antonio and a Latino make it.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 09:59:25 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2017, 09:25:56 PMReally no other choice, Joe Biden. The dude is absolute class and passion.

Al Gore is probably my back-up choice; maybe Biden/Gore ticket.
Yeah, those are good, too.  In my earlier post, I actually wrote down Al Gore but erased it before posting.  I figured I'd get too many objections ranging from political has-been to jetsetting global warming alarmist.  Go figure.

Imho, we could do a lot worse than Gore or Biden.  In fact, I'm pretty sure either would be way better than what we have currently.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 11:02:30 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 15, 2017, 07:03:34 PM
You do realize, that Eisenhower is the one responsible for both the "one nation under God" addition to the Pledge of Allegiance, and the "In God We Trust" motto on our currency.

The first, not the second.  The second is from 1864 ... thank Lincoln for that, and the Thanksgiving holiday.  Silly Americans in the 1950s, thought that adding G-d to the pledge, would cause Communists to not say it, for fear that their mouths would catch fire from the blasphemy of falsely affirming American Manifest Destiny.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Sylar on March 15, 2017, 11:03:42 PM
Ultimately the pick should be whichever candidate has the best chance to beat the incumbent, because historically the incumbent has advantage to win re-election.

It also means making sure a loss doesn't burn this candidate's chances in 2024.

Also historically speaking, losing party usually wins in midterm congressional elections immediately following presidential elections, so let's hope the trend keeps up. I am more worried about winning state legislatures, where Democrats have lower turnout. DNC really needs to focus on that. 2020 census, which means redistricting -- need to remind people of that.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 12:16:43 PM
Well, as I said, Al Gore.  He has the skills and depth of worldwide understanding.  As does Hillary Clinton.  And they are both eligible.  I love Sanders and Brown personally, but I doubt they could govern (but if Trump can be President, that might not matter).

Let me just say that any person not as nuts as Trump would be a better choice.  There could be some Republican better than him.  Can we have Bush Jr back?   
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 12:19:42 PM
Actually, you know what scares me the most?  Every Republican President seems crazier than the last one.  I would take Reagan over Bush Jr and Trump!
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 16, 2017, 12:25:20 PM
I was recently reflecting that it took Dubya fully five years to make me miss Nixon.

Asshole wasn't even inaugurated yet before I was missing Dubya.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 16, 2017, 12:25:20 PM
I was recently reflecting that it took Dubya fully five years to make me miss Nixon.

Asshole wasn't even inaugurated yet before I was missing Dubya.

Hmmm.  Line them up by ability since Carter...
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Munch on March 16, 2017, 12:37:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvy0wRLD5s8
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 07:16:42 PM
Yes, Grant was a real man, he not only had hair on his chest, he put hair on Lee's chest ;-)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: fencerider on March 18, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
I'm tryin to imagine Cavebear as president... and then Zorn, Hydra, Baruch,trsf. They all sound a whole lot better than Trump; although Baruch might screw things up just for the fun of it
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 18, 2017, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: fencerider on March 18, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
I'm tryin to imagine Cavebear as president... and then Zorn, Hydra, Baruch,trsf. They all sound a whole lot better than Trump; although Baruch might screw things up just for the fun of it

I am the "devil with a blue dress on" ;-)  If the world is chaos, and I mess it up more ... sounds a lot like what is the sound of a tree falling ... how can you tell if I did or didn't?  Cavebear having working in the government ... knows it better than most, better than Trump of course.  I have worked on the periphery of the government for half my life, but I recognize a cluster-F when I see one.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: sasuke on March 18, 2017, 01:05:17 PM
Al Franken. He will be 69 in 2020, but he would still be younger than Trump
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 19, 2017, 01:25:33 AM
Quote from: sasuke on March 18, 2017, 01:05:17 PM
Al Franken. He will be 69 in 2020, but he would still be younger than Trump

I promise to form my Cabinet from members here.  Then I'll fire the dumbest 10% of you each year when I get to know you better.  But it's a start...

First atheist President, first atheist Cabinet.  How badly could we do?
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 19, 2017, 08:42:40 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 19, 2017, 01:25:33 AM
I promise to form my Cabinet from members here.  Then I'll fire the dumbest 10% of you each year when I get to know you better.  But it's a start...

First atheist President, first atheist Cabinet.  How badly could we do?

Uncle Joe was hard on his fellow party members too.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 20, 2017, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: sasuke on March 18, 2017, 01:05:17 PM
Al Franken. He will be 69 in 2020, but he would still be younger than Trump
Franken has really busted his ass since going to Washington.  Maybe we should send more comedians and fewer people just funny in the head to DC.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Hydra009 on March 20, 2017, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: fencerider on March 18, 2017, 12:27:39 PMI'm tryin to imagine Cavebear as president... and then Zorn, Hydra, Baruch,trsf.
I have a lot of RTS/4X experience.  How different could running an actual country be?  :P

The last few players on the hot seat went with rush strategies and spammed military units, which is horrendously n00bish behavior on this large a map, especially given our starting location.

So here's what we do:  we rein in military spending, prioritize the hell out of infrastructure (like t3 power plants) and citizen-improving techs (schools and hospitals).  Upgrading citizens costs an arm and a leg, but it's worth it in the long haul.  They produce more efficiently, which helps grow a better economy. Also, building t3 power plants means we no longer have to trade for power, so we don't have to walk a diplomacy tightrope anymore.  Tell Shareef the deal's off and I don't care if he doesn't like it.  After about a dozen turns of booming, we'll have a huge stockpile of resources to make a serious push towards whatever we want: military victory, culture victory, science victory, etc.  Culture isn't a bad idea, but personally, I'd go for a science victory.

50 turns later:

(http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/921278188522860001/BC6A3782A4262E49B416043181DEDCB2AA73674C/)

GG no re
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 20, 2017, 01:24:23 PM
How come all civilization games, have the player as Uncle Joe implementing the next 5 year plan?  Why not capitalism (where you can't micromanage shit)?
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Mike Cl on March 20, 2017, 03:32:04 PM
Well, OP, anybody on this forum (well, almost) including you.  Also Elizabeth Warren.  Franken for VP or Supreme Court.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Mike Cl on March 20, 2017, 03:32:53 PM
And throw John Stewart into the mix as well.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 21, 2017, 04:45:58 AM
Comedians are smart, scientists are smart, professors are smart. Lets escape politicians and hire a few lawyers for details, and sit down and just solve things.  Rebuild the infrastructure, set up free high speed broadband, improve health care.  Manufacturing would return, jobs would increase, taxable revenue would increase.  Bottom up economics!
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2017, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2017, 04:45:58 AM
Comedians are smart, scientists are smart, professors are smart. Lets escape politicians and hire a few lawyers for details, and sit down and just solve things.  Rebuild the infrastructure, set up free high speed broadband, improve health care.  Manufacturing would return, jobs would increase, taxable revenue would increase.  Bottom up economics!

Main street economics is dead ... we only have stripper wells and fracking left, that and ... Las Vega strippers.  Smarts won't put gas in your tank.  The Sinclair dinosaur died for your sins millions of years ago ;-)

Down with the pointy haired bosses, all hail .. Emperor Dilbert!  Aren't you forgetting that Catbert is running HR?
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Mike Cl on March 21, 2017, 09:01:05 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2017, 04:45:58 AM
Comedians are smart, scientists are smart, professors are smart. Lets escape politicians and hire a few lawyers for details, and sit down and just solve things.  Rebuild the infrastructure, set up free high speed broadband, improve health care.  Manufacturing would return, jobs would increase, taxable revenue would increase.  Bottom up economics!
Naaaaa....................ain't gonna happen.  Makes too much sense--and how will the coprs get rich off that????? 

Great proposal, but it seems it does make too much sense these days.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 21, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
I see two major things, as far as progressive social policies, to push for, to help our country thrive: public healthcare for all; and free access to higher education. It's been done in other countries. Work it out.

What we need, is for Bernie-wan to train a young apprentice, in the ways of the Force. Otherwise the Sith will establish their empire here, for generations to come.

"So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: GrinningYMIR on March 21, 2017, 09:30:01 AM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 21, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
I see two major things, as far as progressive social policies, to push for, to help our country thrive: public healthcare for all; and free access to higher education. It's been done in other countries. Work it out.

What we need, is for Bernie-wan to train a young apprentice, in the ways of the Force. Otherwise the Sith will establish their empire here, for generations to come.

"So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala

Sith empire is actually effective, palpatines Sith empire had a strong economy but was also involved with rebel disputes and wasted money on super weapons and inferior leadership. And come on no way it would collapse immediately.

It was known for its brutality but the average citizen didn't see too much of a change. Sometimes for the better, kinda like classes legion from fallout, piracy and some corruption decrease becuase the imperials simply executed them on sight rather than imprisonment.


The current American Sith empire scenario is more like the derp who tried to take controls of cademimu, and ended up causing a civil war he tried to surpress with mercenaries from off world. All while the economy collapsed and he sat on his nukes claiming that's all he needed to keep the planet safe
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 21, 2017, 09:39:05 AM
Quote from: MeI see two major things, as far as progressive social policies, to push for, to help our country thrive: public healthcare for all; and free access to higher education. It's been done in other countries. Work it out.

What we need, is for Bernie-wan to train a young apprentice, in the ways of the Force. Otherwise the Sith will establish their empire here, for generations to come.

"So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala

Quote from: GrinningYMIR
Sith empire is actually effective, palpatines Sith empire had a strong economy but was also involved with rebel disputes and wasted money on super weapons and inferior leadership. And come on no way it would collapse immediately.

It was known for its brutality but the average citizen didn't see too much of a change. Sometimes for the better, kinda like classes legion from fallout, piracy and some corruption decrease becuase the imperials simply executed them on sight rather than imprisonment.
That's called, "extending a metaphor." It is far beyond the simple analogy I was attempting to draw. As a point of contention, it becomes a strawman.


Quote from: GrinningYMIRThe current American Sith empire scenario is more like the derp who tried to take controls of cademimu, and ended up causing a civil war he tried to surpress with mercenaries from off world. All while the economy collapsed and he sat on his nukes claiming that's all he needed to keep the planet safe
Not familiar with the reference.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Mr.Obvious on March 21, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
I actually have a side-question for this thread.
Is it American law that you have to be born in america to be president, or just for running for president? If the latter; could a non-American-born american politician, say Schwarzenegger, be a vice-president as running mate and after a third party assasination on the president become the commander in chief?
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Shiranu on March 21, 2017, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 21, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
I actually have a side-question for this thread.
Is it American law that you have to be born in america to be president, or just for running for president? If the latter; could a non-American-born american politician, say Schwarzenegger, be a vice-president as running mate and after a third party assasination on the president become the commander in chief?

I think they would be passed over in the chain of command, though I don't know if they are even eligible for VP. The whole point is that a foreign power doesn't take a hold of our government (*cough* Russia *cough* *cough*), so I don't think that loopholes would work.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: PickelledEggs on March 21, 2017, 01:49:50 PM
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md1ipoUgaP1rjsf3uo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 21, 2017, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 21, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
I actually have a side-question for this thread.
Is it American law that you have to be born in america to be president, or just for running for president? If the latter; could a non-American-born american politician, say Schwarzenegger, be a vice-president as running mate and after a third party assasination on the president become the commander in chief?
I think the VP has to meet the same Constitutional standards the P does, so Schwarzenegger would not be eligible to run for either.

What's happened in the past when foreign-born individuals have held offices in the chain of succession, they're just skipped.  So when Kissinger was Secretary of State, he was skipped and the Secretary of the Treasury was 4th in line.  Same deal when Madeleine Albright was SecState.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Hydra009 on March 21, 2017, 06:39:27 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 21, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
I actually have a side-question for this thread.
Is it American law that you have to be born in america to be president, or just for running for president? If the latter; could a non-American-born american politician, say Schwarzenegger, be a vice-president as running mate and after a third party assasination on the president become the commander in chief?
To be President, afaik.  That's why the position of Vice President has the same requirements as President.  I'm fairly sure that a person who isn't a natural-born citizen can't be President, even if both the President and Vice President kick the bucket, though that's never happened yet.

Arnold Schwarzenegger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Arnold_Schwarzenegger) is not a natural-born citizen and thus cannot be President.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2017, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on March 21, 2017, 11:55:41 AM
I think they would be passed over in the chain of command, though I don't know if they are even eligible for VP. The whole point is that a foreign power doesn't take a hold of our government (*cough* Russia *cough* *cough*), so I don't think that loopholes would work.

A foreign power did ... Native American government was taken hold of by European invaders.  Almost all the people in the New World, are ineligible to run for office on that basis.  And besides ... Saudi Arabia and Israel already control the US government, not Russia.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2017, 06:49:58 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 21, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
I see two major things, as far as progressive social policies, to push for, to help our country thrive: public healthcare for all; and free access to higher education. It's been done in other countries. Work it out.

What we need, is for Bernie-wan to train a young apprentice, in the ways of the Force. Otherwise the Sith will establish their empire here, for generations to come.

"So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala

America was built on theft, and is kept afloat by ongoing theft that we conveniently turn a blind eye to.  If you institute justice, as your goal, ironically it kills the US ... because with justice, the US is bankrupt.  You can only make the US great again, but greater injustice.  That is why Trump was elected ... because non-SJWs realize this.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Unbeliever on March 21, 2017, 07:03:41 PM

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/polizeros/images/KLEPTOCRACY+The+Game.jpg)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Unbeliever on March 21, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
(https://punkonomicsdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wpid-wp-1410178581588.jpeg)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Unbeliever on March 21, 2017, 07:11:57 PM
(http://ldrlongdistancerider.com/images/Kleptocracy_and_You.jpg)
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 22, 2017, 03:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 21, 2017, 10:18:41 AM
I actually have a side-question for this thread.
Is it American law that you have to be born in america to be president, or just for running for president? If the latter; could a non-American-born american politician, say Schwarzenegger, be a vice-president as running mate and after a third party assasination on the president become the commander in chief?

The strict answer is no.  You don't have to be born IN America.  But you do have to be a citizen and that is different.  You can be born outside the US to a US mother.  Being born outside the US from a US father seems to be unresolved (which seems to me to be a slightly irrational distinction).  But in any uncertainty, The Supreme Court would decide.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: trdsf on March 22, 2017, 12:42:42 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 22, 2017, 03:30:35 AM
The strict answer is no.  You don't have to be born IN America.  But you do have to be a citizen and that is different.  You can be born outside the US to a US mother.  Being born outside the US from a US father seems to be unresolved (which seems to me to be a slightly irrational distinction).  But in any uncertainty, The Supreme Court would decide.
Certainly American territory counts as far as the place of birth goes -- Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona Territory, three years before Arizona became a state.  John McCain was born in the US-controlled Panama Canal Zone.  Neither was ineligible to run, even though neither won.  There doesn't appear to be a case of a successful presidential candidate born in a territory rather than a state.

The first ten presidents, of course, were born before there was a United States to be born in.
Title: Re: If you would...
Post by: Cavebear on March 24, 2017, 04:43:45 AM
Quote from: trdsf on March 22, 2017, 12:42:42 PM
Certainly American territory counts as far as the place of birth goes -- Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona Territory, three years before Arizona became a state.  John McCain was born in the US-controlled Panama Canal Zone.  Neither was ineligible to run, even though neither won.  There doesn't appear to be a case of a successful presidential candidate born in a territory rather than a state.

The first ten presidents, of course, were born before there was a United States to be born in.

Which IS, I suppose why the territory rule was established as OK.