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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 08:03:58 AM

Title: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 08:03:58 AM
Yes, and I always get so confused as to 'seraphims' and 'cherubims'(try saying that one 3 times fast, wow, what a tongue twister).  'Seraphims' have, like, Saran Wrap for wings, right, and 'cherubims' are like super chubby li'l babies with curly white hair, I think--also, with the obligatory wings.  They live in the clouds, or stand on top of them or something, which begs the question, "why do they need the wings"?  But it's good that they stay in the clouds, because I wouldn't want one a them comin' on down yonder har' and taking my goddang pet angel's JAWB!  That would be far worse than an invasion of the alleged, 'Alien Anchor Babies'!

It is said they they exist in a hierarchy with other angels of their stock and trade, but they themselves like to refer to it as their 'Li'l ol' Collective'.  If I'm not mistaken, the 'Collective' spend most or all of their time singing in a blissful choir and they perform(for free of charge of course since, like on Earth, nobody in the entire known Universe likes to pay for music) like at some Etheric Disco where they dance and dance some more , Euro-Techno style, and drink booze and laugh and partay and all in all have a ghey ol' time, which is not to say they ARE ghey, no, not ghey at all!  They are putting out some MP3 singles soon, to try and make some $ to support there insatiable booze habit.  And they make their 'Big ol' Daddy' smile! 

The reason they do so much singing is, well, they likey to sing, ALOT--and who wouldn't(?)--AND, they haven't much else to do as since they, and 'Dad', are omniscient, they therefore are not omnipotent:  everything's already happened.  That's why they basically have to ignore and/or deflect all the billions of telepathic text messages they receive from one planet earth every damn day--it can be pretty annoying when you are rehearsing...in the choir(I speculate that the reason they sing so much is to ameliorate the frustration they fell for not being able to intervene in the tragedy of human affairs).  A few of them, the especially gifted and intelligent ones, also play these cra'y, twinkley toned string instruments called 'harps'.  How weird is that?

One day, 'Dad's' fav seraphim accidentally got tangled up in her/his plastic wings and smothered her/himself to death and the entire choir almost lost it, SO HAZ SADFACE! :(  And they say the rivers of tears raining down from their collective eyes pretty much flooded out the entire Noah's Ark Theme Park in Southern Kentucky(USA)--and took out a bunch of tourists and their kids and PET DOGS!  How could 'Dad' let this happen, who kills DOGS, for gawd's sake?!  But, as explained above, 'Dad' saw it coming but could do absolutely nothing to stop it(well, 'Dad', hasn't stopped any bad stuff on earth for, like, EVAR!)

But those incredibly cute and normally cheerful li'l angels just kept keeping on, 'soldiering' thru the pain and loss of their sister/brother--even though they have no evolved nervous system--and sang SO HARD for the longest time over there fallen angel buddy that they say, if you go out into the wee hours of the night, and close your eyes and listen real hard, you can almost hear those 'heavenly' tones.... ;)

(http://www.sacred-texts.com/lcr/fsca/img/04400.jpg)

Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 13, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
This post reminds me, just a little, of my own excursion into...I don't know what to call it...holy satire, maybe?

Mine is called "An Afterlife Chat with J.C." I thought I might add to it over time, but I haven't had the inspiration.

If you like it, leave a reply, and revive the thread:
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=7554.0

Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 13, 2017, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 13, 2017, 08:03:58 AM
Yes, and I always get so confused as to 'seraphims' and 'cherubims'...
I met an angel, when I was very young, she had a sunlight-induced halo, radiating around her long blonde hair. Her blue eyes had blonde eyelashes, at that time, and her pussy was like honey. I gave her an orgasm. Hallelujah...
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Sorginak on March 13, 2017, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 13, 2017, 03:41:54 PM


Mine is called "An Afterlife Chat with J.C." I thought I might add to it over time, but I haven't had the inspiration.



In college, I wrote something similar.  It was a weed induced chat with J.C., though. 
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: aitm on March 13, 2017, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: Sorginak on March 13, 2017, 04:04:25 PM
In college, I wrote something similar.  It was a weed induced chat with J.C., though. 
Mine was a conversation with a wren that landed on my window sill who convinced me that humans could fly. Birds needed wings as they were lesser animals but humans were the choice of God himself to be like him and all one needed was true faith and absolute confidence and you could fly as easily as birds.....then...once I landed and among the pain and broken  bones I hear the bird laughing hysterically....""fucking humans are soooo arrogant".
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 06:14:52 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 13, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
This post reminds me, just a little, of my own excursion into...I don't know what to call it...holy satire, maybe?

Mine is called "An Afterlife Chat with J.C." I thought I might add to it over time, but I haven't had the inspiration.

If you like it, leave a reply, and revive the thread:
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=7554.0
Oh cool, I'll check it out!
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 06:22:33 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 13, 2017, 03:54:20 PM
I met an angel, when I was very young, she had a sunlight-induced halo, radiating around her long blonde hair. Her blue eyes had blonde eyelashes, at that time, and her pussy was like honey. I gave her an orgasm. Hallelujah...
I have "known" many such an angel...  ;)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 13, 2017, 06:32:28 PM
A little history .. cherubim (wind demons) and seraphim (fire demons) are part of the retinue of Yahweh in the polytheistic worship in the Canaanite temple in Jerusalem, before the reign of King Josiah (before the Babylonian Exile).  See The Hebrew Goddess by Raphael Patai.  Per natural phenomena ... cherubim are dust devils of the ME sort, and seraphim are fire devils (from strong brush fires).  See them on YouTube.

Judaism first tried to become monotheistic at the time of King Josiah, but was overtaken by Egyptian and Babylonian opposition.  Ezra and Nehemiah, after the Persian took over, reestablished Judaism (OT) as we currently know it, after returning from Babylon ... as Persian quislings.  The majority of people still in Israel/Judah were polytheists ... and naturally were the opposition to be overcome by the new dispensation from the Shah of Persia.  This is why the Shah comes off so well in the Book of Esther.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 13, 2017, 06:32:28 PM
A little history .. cherubim (wind demons) and seraphim (fire demons) are part of the retinue of Yahweh in the polytheistic worship in the Canaanite temple in Jerusalem, before the reign of King Josiah (before the Babylonian Exile).  See The Hebrew Goddess by Raphael Patai.  Per natural phenomena ... cherubim are dust devils of the ME sort, and seraphim are fire devils (from strong brush fires).  See them on YouTube.

Judaism first tried to become monotheistic at the time of King Josiah, but was overtaken by Egyptian and Babylonian opposition.  Ezra and Nehemiah, after the Persian took over, reestablished Judaism (OT) as we currently know it, after returning from Babylon ... as Persian quislings.  The majority of people still in Israel/Judah were polytheists ... and naturally were the opposition to be overcome by the new dispensation from the Shah of Persia.  This is why the Shah comes off so well in the Book of Esther.
Yahweh, the original dictator.  "Yahway or the hahway".  Well, Gawd musta outsourced the devily stuff to India or something, because now those serafans and cheribumbs just sit around singin' and drinkin' all day long.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: fencerider on March 13, 2017, 09:46:36 PM
all my angels had brown hair ;-)

fire demons eh. the spiritualist got another way to describe seraphim.... seraphim is plural of a seraph. A seraph is a snake-like being that talks. So all the stories about a knight in shining armour rescuein the princess from the dragon is just another case of an angel tryin to steal an earth girl;-]
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 10:08:41 PM
Quote from: fencerider on March 13, 2017, 09:46:36 PM
all my angels had brown hair ;-)

fire demons eh. the spiritualist got another way to describe seraphim.... seraphim is plural of a seraph. A seraph is a snake-like being that talks. So all the stories about a knight in shining armour rescuein the princess from the dragon is just another case of an angel tryin to steal an earth girl;-]
That's why they call them snakes, and the prettiest ones are the most lethal.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d0/aa/ed/d0aaedcb105430ba27f0655f32fcb1c0.jpg)


QuoteInland Taipan has the most toxic venom of any land snake in the world. The maximum yield recorded for one bite is enough to kill about 100 humans.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:23:03 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 13, 2017, 09:15:06 PM
Yahweh, the original dictator.  "Yahway or the hahway".  Well, Gawd musta outsourced the devily stuff to India or something, because now those serafans and cheribumbs just sit around singin' and drinkin' all day long.

Desert chieftains tend to be like that.  Forest and plains chieftains too.  People who have a problem with authority, always have daddy issues, except then it is mommy issues.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:28:57 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:23:03 AM
Desert chieftains tend to be like that.  Forest and plains chieftains too.  People who have a problem with authority, always have daddy issues, except then it is mommy issues.
Or maybe they are just smarter than the average bear.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:28:57 AM
Or maybe they are just smarter than the average bear.

Like I said ... proper child care ... and no problems.  If that doesn't work, put them in the British Navy for a long cruise.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:40:19 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:30:29 AM
Like I said ... proper child care ... and no problems.  If that doesn't work, put them in the British Navy for a long cruise.
And when they single handedly take down the Limey Navy, then what?
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on March 14, 2017, 02:19:15 AM
I reject your angels and substitute my own!

(http://www.plastikitty.com/wp-content/uploads/MyBabyHeader.jpg)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 02:48:04 AM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 14, 2017, 02:19:15 AM
I reject your angels and substitute my own!

(http://www.plastikitty.com/wp-content/uploads/MyBabyHeader.jpg)
I'll sign off on that!  Bring in more recruits!  ;)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:40:19 AM
And when they single handedly take down the Limey Navy, then what?

While they are in their safe space (the brig)?  Then there is the cat-of-nine-tails and the yard arm.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 06:39:07 AM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 14, 2017, 02:19:15 AM
I reject your angels and substitute my own!

(http://www.plastikitty.com/wp-content/uploads/MyBabyHeader.jpg)

Manga style.  But actually babies with wings and beautiful women with wings ... are greco-roman paganism.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:37:41 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 06:37:56 AM
While they are in their safe space (the brig)?  Then there is the cat-of-nine-tails and the yard arm.
Id this Game of Thrones or something?  Lol, I dont follow that stuff.  Got enough trolls to deal with here.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 13, 2017, 08:03:58 AM
Yes, and I always get so confused as to 'seraphims' and 'cherubims'(try saying that one 3 times fast, wow, what a tongue twister). 

Yeah, and then there are the flying horses, fairies, elves, leprechauns, nubbins, weebles, Nachos, and Legos...  It is SUCH a bother to keep them all straight.  I keep a spreadsheet on the wall.  You know, like1 row reminding me that  legos are rather blocky and another to remind me that "weebles wobble but they won't fall down".
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:45:44 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:37:41 AM
Id this Game of Thrones or something?  Lol, I dont follow that stuff.  Got enough trolls to deal with here.

Yes, you are one of the Ice Giants.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:56:07 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:45:44 PM
Yes, you are one of the Ice Giants.
Prez Tramp says I'm bigly, yeah, and I believe him.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:56:07 PM
Prez Tramp says I'm bigly, yeah, and I believe him.

Game of Thrones reveal ... in that case, don't piss off the princess who flies dragons, they really do breath fire!
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
Game of Thrones reveal ... in that case, don't piss of the princess who flies dragons, they really do breath fire!
I dont like all that Medieval Monanarchy and dungeons crap.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 07:42:26 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
I dont like all that Medieval Monanarchy and dungeons crap.

The prisoners in the dungeons, and people burned or eaten by dragons, don't like it much either.  And the nobles die off just like in Renaissance Italy.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 08:31:08 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 07:42:26 PM
The prisoners in the dungeons, and people burned or eaten by dragons, don't like it much either.  And the nobles die off just like in Renaissance Italy.
Medieval Euro was pretty miserable for most people.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 08:37:02 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 08:31:08 PM
Medieval Euro was pretty miserable for most people.

Most real lives are ... quite desperation without meaning.  Some are nasty, brutish and short ... but enough about my ex ;-)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 08:38:44 PM
I bet it wasn't all that great for the nobles, even, given the lack of decent medical care and the holy inquisition. Many times it was the rich who were targeted, so the inquisitors could steal their wealth.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 08:38:44 PM
I bet it wasn't all that great for the nobles, even, given the lack of decent medical care and the holy inquisition. Many times it was the rich who were targeted, so the inquisitors could steal their wealth.

Duh duh duh ... Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python skit).  in 1600, Queen Elizabeth I was one of the few people in England with a tooth brush ... thus starting the fad in England of bad teeth ;-)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 08:37:02 PM
Most real lives are ... quite desperation without meaning.  Some are nasty, brutish and short ... but enough about my ex ;-)
When the Black Plaque hit, the clergy said it was witches and demons and stuff, so killed off even more folk that way.  Good job, religion.  Turned out to be infected fleas on rats, via ships in ports.  That's a big reason why they had to go down into Africa to get resources and labor to get the industrial rev going, too many people died off in Euro, livestock too.  Euro doesnt have alot of natural resources either, not anywhere near Africa.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 09:44:43 PM
The only wage increase that Europeans got, prior to modernity (unions etc) was the Black Plague.  Killed off so many people, the Malthusian oversupply couldn't hold down wages anymore.  Of course back then, most people worked on the farm and didn't get any wages at all.  So this mostly benefited townies.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 04:34:01 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 09:44:43 PM
The only wage increase that Europeans got, prior to modernity (unions etc) was the Black Plague.  Killed off so many people, the Malthusian oversupply couldn't hold down wages anymore.  Of course back then, most people worked on the farm and didn't get any wages at all.  So this mostly benefited townies.
The Man has never enjoyed paying higher wages, hence, socialism was invented.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 04:34:01 AM
The Man has never enjoyed paying higher wages, hence, socialism was invented.

We are supposed to supply free goods and services under feudalism, as part of our reciprocal obligation (protection racket).  It takes cheek to demand payment.  But one advantage .. in feudalism, warlords like Dick Cheney rule, not merchant princes like Trump.  That came later, under the Medici.  Capisci?  Capitalism is based on Templar banking and guild oligopoly.  Only we get less art patronage today ;-(
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:41:13 AM
We are supposed to supply free goods and services under feudalism, as part of our reciprocal obligation (protection racket).  It takes cheek to demand payment.  But one advantage .. in feudalism, warlords like Dick Cheney rule, not merchant princes like Trump.  That came later, under the Medici.  Capisci?  Capitalism is based on Templar banking and guild oligopoly.  Only we get less art patronage today ;-(
Cheek and cops and troops and stuff.  Templars, yep, they were "bad dudes", invented banking as we know/use it, thats why its all in SWITZERLAND, woohoo, home of the Nazis, woohoo!  The Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria were Templar owned ships, if I recall.  Freemasonry is basically a blueprint for corporate business hierarchy, as far as I can tell.  It's the capitalist businessman's religion.  I think they invented the suit and that leash they call a "neck-TIE".

(http://jackmahoney1.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/6/2/30621579/6598522.jpg)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 07:13:34 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 06:53:54 AM
Cheek and cops and troops and stuff.  Templars, yep, they were "bad dudes", invented banking as we know/use it, thats why its all in SWITZERLAND, woohoo, home of the Nazis, woohoo!  The Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria were Templar owned ships, if I recall.  Freemasonry is basically a blueprint for corporate business hierarchy, as far as I can tell.  It's the capitalist businessman's religion.  I think they invented the suit and that leash they call a "neck-TIE".

(http://jackmahoney1.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/6/2/30621579/6598522.jpg)

I am very familiar, being the grandson of a Shriner ;-)  Was a DeMolay (Templar leader) as a teen.  Chevalier and Master Councilor in fact, at Lodge #1 in my state (the Lodge for the grownups ... I wasn't a leader of the grownups).  Enjoy National Treasure (first movie)?  The mythology of Freemasony is quite ... interesting.

It was the Hospitallers who were the bad dudes.  Templars are given a bad rap because of association.  The Templars created Gentile banking (in the Middle Ages, banking had existed in Rome prior to that).  Jews have been in international banking (local banking not so much) because of obvious advantages for millennia.

It was king Louis XIV who invented the business suit (his version was court dress however) and the neck tie was invented by the Croatian men (cravat is corrupted pronunciation of Croat) about 200 years ago.  It was the continental Illuminati/Freemasons who, unlike the Anglo-American version, were revolutionaries, who brought about the Gerondin portion of the French Revolution.  Then things got out of hand.  The Catholic Church considers them to be an existential threat, over 100 years before the Bolshevism.  Well now America has its merchant prince.  Let the original Enlightenment resume (in Italian Mafia terms).
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 08:07:48 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 07:13:34 AM
I am very familiar, being the grandson of a Shriner ;-)  Was a DeMolay (Templar leader) as a teen.  Chevalier and Master Councilor in fact, at Lodge #1 in my state (the Lodge for the grownups ... I wasn't a leader of the grownups).  Enjoy National Treasure (first movie)?  The mythology of Freemasony is quite ... interesting.

It was the Hospitallers who were the bad dudes.  Templars are given a bad rap because of association.  The Templars created Gentile banking (in the Middle Ages, banking had existed in Rome prior to that).  Jews have been in international banking (local banking not so much) because of obvious advantages for millennia.

It was king Louis XIV who invented the business suit (his version was court dress however) and the neck tie was invented by the Croatian men (cravat is corrupted pronunciation of Croat) about 200 years ago.  It was the continental Illuminati/Freemasons who, unlike the Anglo-American version, were revolutionaries, who brought about the Gerondin portion of the French Revolution.  Then things got out of hand.  The Catholic Church considers them to be an existential threat, over 100 years before the Bolshevism.  Well now America has its merchant prince.  Let the original Enlightenment resume (in Italian Mafia terms).
Growing up, my dad was a Shriner and Elks Lodge and maybe a few other things.  He never talked to me about it much, but we went to the Elks Lodge for dinner all the time.  He eventually quit all that.

The Templar/Freemason thing is incredibly interesting, but at the same time, I dont want to get near it.  The religion part is very strange.  Alot of it is a scam--the "degrees"--for the main leaders to stay in power.  They suck $ from the rank and file just like any religion.  But they ARE organized as hell as have probably the most power in the world, gotta give them that.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 12:13:39 PM
Freemasonry of course goes back the Mithraism ... it had (a fewer number) of ranks ... had elite contacts in the Roman army.  That is where Anglo-American Freemasonry propagated originally ... in the British army.  European Freemasonry was in the "salons".

No, as an esoteric group, we aren't allowed to talk about it.  Freemasonry etc is a dying breed.  But it was big in the 1950s when my grandfather got into it.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 12:13:39 PM
Freemasonry of course goes back the Mithraism ... it had (a fewer number) of ranks ... had elite contacts in the Roman army.  That is where Anglo-American Freemasonry propagated originally ... in the British army.  European Freemasonry was in the "salons".

No, as an esoteric group, we aren't allowed to talk about it.  Freemasonry etc is a dying breed.  But it was big in the 1950s when my grandfather got into it.
Well, in a tiny podunk town here in downstate NY they recently remodeled the small courthouse and in the "garden" area they installed right smack dab in the middle, for all to see, a brand new 10' obelisk, with "balls".  Just decorative garden art, right?  Most of the medium size towns around here to MA etc have active Masonic temples.  So, somebody must be doing something.

London Olympics 2012 ceremonies were dripping with occult/masonic symbolism. 

(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/riseearth/One-Direction-sing-What-Makes-You-B.jpg)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:30:49 PM
Most schmos don't know what an obelisk is.  Sun god Ra's penis .. aka Pharaoh's penis.  The Pharaoh's palace in Memphis was called ... the White House.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:30:49 PM
Most schmos don't know what an obelisk is.  Sun god Ra's penis .. aka Pharaoh's penis.  The Pharaoh's palace in Memphis was called ... the White House.
I guess all the court houses and banks and public buildings must be "schmos".
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 07:57:02 PM
I guess all the court houses and banks and public buildings must be "schmos".

Human ignorance is breathtaking ... fortunately I bring my oxygen bottle with me.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 10:59:08 PM
Human ignorance is breathtaking ... fortunately I bring my oxygen bottle with me.
Yeah, like when some people say history never happened.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 11:21:15 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:16:33 PM
Yeah, like when some people say history never happened.

Herodotus told lies ... like all the historians.  That lie (and the others) did happen, as lies.  What the lies referred to, didn't happen the way they describe it.  Reality is too complex to be described in any narrative.  Can you give me an accurate and complete description of events in the Trump WH since the inauguration?  Don't even try.

Most people are taken up in fallacies, when they aren't taken up in delusions.  You are not as different as you think.  Even honest history is a confabulation of partial views and selective memory.  It is a branch of literature, same as fairy tales, but often not as good.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:29:52 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 11:21:15 PM
Herodotus told lies ... like all the historians.  That lie (and the others) did happen, as lies.  What the lies referred to, didn't happen the way they describe it.  Reality is too complex to be described in any narrative.  Can you give me an accurate and complete description of events in the Trump WH since the inauguration?  Don't even try.

Most people are taken up in fallacies, when they aren't taken up in delusions.  You are not as different as you think.  Even honest history is a confabulation of partial views and selective memory.  It is a branch of literature, same as fairy tales, but often not as good.
Obviously all that ever happened cant be recorded, like how many birds in flight at any one time.  Fortunately there are some decent historians that record some decent factual history, as best they can from what archives they can get, or if they were there, etc.  Otherwise, we wouldnt be able to talk about anything.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:29:52 PM
Obviously all that ever happened cant be recorded, like how many birds in flight at any one time.  Fortunately there are some decent historians that record some decent factual history, as best they can from what archives they can get, or if they were there, etc.  Otherwise, we wouldnt be able to talk about anything.

Without being both complete and accurate (how can we avoid the vagaries of prejudice?) ... it is bullshit.  Propaganda by me, or by the Church, or by the government.  It isn't turtles all the way down, it is bullshit all the way down.  So did you take the Red pill, the Blue pill, or both?  Pretty sure you took the Red pill ;-)

Now finding myself making shit, and thinking, speaking and writing shit, every day ... can't see anything wrong with that.  The bullshit long ago got deeper than my eyebrows.

But I do love a good story.  And I accept it as that, i don't need to prejudice it by calling it what it is.  Why traumatize the toddlers here?
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:40:38 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 11:34:07 PM
Without being both complete and accurate (how can we avoid the vagaries of prejudice?) ... it is bullshit.  Propaganda by me, or by the Church, or by the government.  It isn't turtles all the way down, it is bullshit all the way down.  So did you take the Red pill, the Blue pill, or both?  Pretty sure you took the Red pill ;-)

Now finding myself making shit, and thinking, speaking and writing shit, every day ... can't see anything wrong with that.  The bullshit long ago got deeper than my eyebrows.

But I do love a good story.  And I accept it as that, i don't need to prejudice it by calling it what it is.  Why traumatize the toddlers here?
OK, dont talk about anything in the past and good luck with that.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 15, 2017, 11:40:38 PM
OK, dont talk about anything in the past and good luck with that.

If it isn't in my memory ... it is lost to me.  And if it is in my memory, I don't trust it.  But with you, you only play Aristotle ... T/F ... you claim knowledge, you claim a magic Greek rationality organ.  Bullshit on that.  Do you know the past?  Thucydides claimed speeches on Pericles that he made up ... he was an admirer of Pericles' dick.  I claim bullshit ... talk about anything you like, I do.  Keep taking the Red pill if that is the one you like.  I am more of a Blue pill guy.  You failed to deal with my actual objections ... too bad ... poser.  Reality is psychology, all the way down, and ape men aren't so sane.

But don't go away ... I like you a lot, even if you are just another flying monkey.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 16, 2017, 07:45:50 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
If it isn't in my memory ... it is lost to me.  And if it is in my memory, I don't trust it.  But with you, you only play Aristotle ... T/F ... you claim knowledge, you claim a magic Greek rationality organ.  Bullshit on that.  Do you know the past?  Thucydides claimed speeches on Pericles that he made up ... he was an admirer of Pericles' dick.  I claim bullshit ... talk about anything you like, I do.  Keep taking the Red pill if that is the one you like.  I am more of a Blue pill guy.  You failed to deal with my actual objections ... too bad ... poser.  Reality is psychology, all the way down, and ape men aren't so sane.

But don't go away ... I like you a lot, even if you are just another flying monkey.
Ok, Skippy Spin Doc, stop naming fancy pants names and try to focus here, if I have this 20 ounce Vaughn(best balanced) hammer, and I and the hammer are not in your memory, but we are in your present and immediate future, we are out here in this thing called "the real world", and I take this hammer and wack you up side the head and if you survive, you most likely have a memory of that real thing that just happened and I and the hammer walk away and still exist.  And since you are still shocked, SHOCKED!, I SAY!, I have to sit down and take out my carpenter's pencil and write down that real event on a 2" by 12" cutoff scrap, and that's your f'ing past history, that ends up in the dumpster.

And I call that "compromise." 
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 07:48:00 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 08:38:44 PM
I bet it wasn't all that great for the nobles, even, given the lack of decent medical care and the holy inquisition. Many times it was the rich who were targeted, so the inquisitors could steal their wealth.

Yeah The Church grabbed all the money it could.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 16, 2017, 07:45:50 AM
Ok, Skippy Spin Doc, stop naming fancy pants names and try to focus here, if I have this 20 ounce Vaughn(best balanced) hammer, and I and the hammer are not in your memory, but we are in your present and immediate future, we are out here in this thing called "the real world", and I take this hammer and wack you up side the head and if you survive, you most likely have a memory of that real thing that just happened and I and the hammer walk away and still exist.  And since you are still shocked, SHOCKED!, I SAY!, I have to sit down and take out my carpenter's pencil and write down that real event on a 2" by 12" cutoff scrap, and that's your f'ing past history, that ends up in the dumpster.

And I call that "compromise."

See ... you are a Platonist, and Plato is the father of Marxism, not Marx.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 16, 2017, 07:11:16 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 12:21:00 PM
See ... you are a Platonist, and Plato is the father of Marxism, not Marx.
When I think Marx, I think Plato's Cave, yeah....
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 07:20:57 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 16, 2017, 07:11:16 PM
When I think Marx, I think Plato's Cave, yeah....

Well then, if Marx was in Plato's Cave, they should have walled it up while he was still in there.
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: etienne on March 16, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 07:20:57 PM
Well then, if Marx was in Plato's Cave, they should have walled it up while he was still in there.
Marx would kill the fascist pig Plato:

QuoteEarly influences that shaped the ideology of fascism have been dated back to ancient Greece....Hitler...emphasizing the common Aryan race connection with ancient Greeks, saying in Mein Kampf... combines millenniums and embraces Hellenism and Germanity together...The Greek philosopher Plato supported many similar political positions to fascism.[17] In The Republic (approx. 380 BC),[18] Plato emphasizes the need for absolute and unlimited authority of a philosopher king in an ideal state...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_and_ideology#Early_influences_.28495_BC_.E2.80.93_1880_AD.29

Keep spinning Dervish Guy.  I see you rarely provide any evidence to support your disinformed verbal twirling.  When you say "Plato is the father of Marxism", you basically lose all credibility on the subject.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_79JhZ0Mjrzo/SjRv6ZVGFsI/AAAAAAAAA4c/vdALxR9Nd3M/s320/erer.jpg)
Title: Re: Seraphims and Cherubims
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 16, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
Marx would kill the fascist pig Plato:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_and_ideology#Early_influences_.28495_BC_.E2.80.93_1880_AD.29

Keep spinning Dervish Guy.  I see you rarely provide any evidence to support your disinformed verbal twirling.  When you say "Plato is the father of Marxism", you basically lose all credibility on the subject.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_79JhZ0Mjrzo/SjRv6ZVGFsI/AAAAAAAAA4c/vdALxR9Nd3M/s320/erer.jpg)

Like Jesus, I am my own authority.  I speak for myself, for my own revelation ... not as an mouth piece for someone else, like the priests or the teachers of the law.