You know there was a time when they existed, mostly due to it not being limited when they just conquered stuff. Too bad that somewhat islamic fundamentalists decided in i dunno 1100 or 1200 or something that they stopped or became more insane of banning it because apparently being too sciency makes you go away from god. Well thank god the colonizers came through in the era of 1500s italy and just improved and broke from the catholic church, kicked balls and now its the western supreme world dominating most with its excellent warmongering language ENGLISH!!!
Well until socialists frankfurt school of thought came in 50s also spawning friggin neo nazis lunatics aswell, because apparently getting along is bad. Fundamentalists and far right are such a joke. I honestly hate both of them. What the world need more of is socialism.
You have a rather obnoxious way of posting, so watch out about that. But I like the shape of your jib, sailor. Yes, the West isn't all bad, and sometimes being BAD is not bad either. Our non-Western victims are sore losers, particularly butt-hurt losers after we have screwed them time and again. The US was based on the British West Indies Company, which was a multinational corporation of pirates ... argh!
What kicked Islamic science in the ass was Mongols destroying Baghdad, and Conquistadors destroying Muslim Spain. The Muslims survived by the skin of their circumcisions.
Quote from: Baruch on February 27, 2017, 07:15:33 AM
You have a rather obnoxious way of posting, so watch out about that. But I like the shape of your jib, sailor. Yes, the West isn't all bad, and sometimes being BAD is not bad either. Our non-Western victims are sore losers, particularly butt-hurt losers after we have screwed them time and again. The US was based on the British West Indies Company, which was a multinational corporation of pirates ... argh!
What kicked Islamic science in the ass was Mongols destroying Baghdad, and Conquistadors destroying Muslim Spain. The Muslims survived by the skin of their circumcisions.
How does Spain remove that part? I can understand Mongols part because they basically conquered the whole region.
Thanks though.
Quote from: Snowblo on February 27, 2017, 07:28:18 AM
How does Spain remove that part? I can understand Mongols part because they basically conquered the whole region.
Thanks though.
It took over 700 years for the Conquistadors to drive out all the Muslims and Jews from Spain, thereby getting rid of all the smart people ;-) The Conquistadors (Roman Catholic crusaders in Spain/Portugal) had just reached their peak of perfection, when it was time to visit the New World.
Mongols ... not party animals, just animals ;-( They exterminated the entire population of 1 million people around Merv in N E Persia, and then the entire population of 1 million people around Baghdad in Iraq. That pretty much left the Muslim peasants to clean up the blood and gore.
Quote from: Baruch on February 27, 2017, 06:11:31 PM
It took over 700 years for the Conquistadors to drive out all the Muslims and Jews from Spain, thereby getting rid of all the smart people ;-) The Conquistadors (Roman Catholic crusaders in Spain/Portugal) had just reached their peak of perfection, when it was time to visit the New World.
Mongols ... not party animals, just animals ;-( They exterminated the entire population of 1 million people around Merv in N E Persia, and then the entire population of 1 million people around Baghdad in Iraq. That pretty much left the Muslim peasants to clean up the blood and gore.
It is also worth remembering just who attacked who. and why Europeans became the bloddy thugs they were at one point.
Th Vikings attacked from the North, the Mongols from the NE, and the Moslems from the SE and SW. Mot peoples would have failed under those onlaughts. The Europeans didn't.
They organized instead of just being taken apart as the people of North Africa did under the Moslem attack of "convert or die". They absorbed the Vikings gradully. They drove off the Mongols.
I doubt that any group of people were able to manage all 3 attacks.
And I will repeat what I have sais bfore and you seem to have not quite understood. The moslems attacked Europe before the Europeans did anything to the Moslems.
The Moslems were bloody aggressors spreading their religious beliefs by the sword from the start, and Europe learned to defend itself from them. The timeline is obvious.
I don't care a personal crap about either side theistically, but accuracy is compelling to me. Moslems were the aggressors and caused Europe to unite against them in defense.
Europeans ... cave men, Og hits Urg in head with club. Who started it first? What schoolyard attitude you have. Stay out of the jungle, jim, you might get hurt.
Yes, Omar, second Caliph, invaded. So did the Persian Emperor and the Christian Emperor (Byzantine). We fight, go hide in your safe place. So on that basis ... we can kill all the Muslims right? As a Jew, I get to kill all you Gentiles, right?
Quote from: Baruch on March 02, 2017, 06:49:00 AM
Europeans ... cave men, Og hits Urg in head with club. Who started it first? What schoolyard attitude you have. Stay out of the jungle, jim, you might get hurt.
Yes, Omar, second Caliph, invaded. So did the Persian Emperor and the Christian Emperor (Byzantine). We fight, go hide in your safe place. So on that basis ... we can kill all the Muslims right? As a Jew, I get to kill all you Gentiles, right?
There is original cause in this case. There was a time when there were no Moslems, and then they attacked Europe.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 02, 2017, 08:46:48 AM
There is original cause in this case. There was a time when there were no Moslems, and then they attacked Europe.
So time started in 632 CE ... that is exactly what Muslims say ... anything anywhere, prior to Muslim occupation, is irrelevant. Prepare to be Borged.
Quote from: Baruch on March 02, 2017, 12:59:04 PM
So time started in 632 CE ... that is exactly what Muslims say ... anything anywhere, prior to Muslim occupation, is irrelevant. Prepare to be Borged.
Well, no, what you are saying, as offensive as it is to all non-moslems, is "prepare to be Moslem". Did that even occur to you?
Quran 60:4
"Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone"
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2017, 05:55:34 AM
Well, no, what you are saying, as offensive as it is to all non-moslems, is "prepare to be Moslem". Did that even occur to you?
You are offended? Are you 12? So you aren't even-older-than-me ... you are faking the adults here out?
My point ... spelling it out for a kid is ... "he started it first" is childish I. In a bar room fight ... shall we act 12 now, sir?
Human beings are aggressive ... get over it already. Don't like Muslim aggression? Good for you. Even Muslims shouldn't like it, unless they are 12. And this is a Muslim subject string .. so I will assume that you aren't implying ... well I don't like Muslim aggression, but I like American aggression ... you simply didn't provide that context. I didn't like Russian aggression, that is why I gave 10 years of my early adulthood to the Cold War. But not because I disliked Russians, because they were aggressive.
Usually, as a rhetorical device, I don't mind offending ... but usually I say ... be prepared (in the US) to be Chinese. That is politics for you ... the US is determined to be occupied by China, or are the politicians a bunch of joy riding 12 year olds? I have told, elsewhere, to Europeans .. that if you don't fight the Muslim immigration, then you will end up becoming Muslim. Care to dispute that? On that much I agree with Pr126. I don't dislike Muslims, or anyone else ... in that I am unlike Pr126. But for the last 4 years, European leadership in Ukraine and in Greece, has created chaos, like 12 year olds going for a joy ride in Dad's car. It is worse than 1914 over there. I got this song that impacted by grandparent's generation ... in my head ... "over there, over there, send the word, to beware, over there".
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 06:34:33 AM
Quran 60:4
"Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone"
So Christian, taken right out of context, just like a Jihadi. According to Jesus, taken out of context, we are all "sons of Satan" (Gospel of John).
What is your opinion of Quran 9:29?
Can it be explained away?
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 06:58:40 AM
What is your opinion of Quran 9:29?
Can it be explained away?
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."
Anything can be explained away, and I won't, it is pointless for me, because I am not Muslim. Yes, the Arabs are desert nomads, and are warlike. Is that why you and I are supporting Saudi Arabia? Don't complain about ISIS or the refugees they help create, while you support Saudi Arabia. Do you buy petrol (gas)? Part of that helps fund those madrassahs in England. You can thank Lawrence of Arabia for that.
So, basically, the Arabs are a conquering army ... always have been, always will be. So lets arm them with sophisticated weapons. Lets take a stick and stir the damn hornet's nest too. I know this ... not because of the Quran, but because of their present and historical behavior. For secular reasons. When I opposed the Soviet Union ... it wasn't because I opposed Russians or even communism, but because neutrally, they are large and aggressive.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2017, 06:49:38 AM
So Christian, taken right out of context, just like a Jihadi. According to Jesus, taken out of context, we are all "sons of Satan" (Gospel of John).
It is only out of context if you believe that Abraham was a Muslim praying to Allah. I do not.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 07:08:24 AM
It is only out of context if you believe that Abraham was a Muslim praying to Allah. I do not.
Abraham and Moses aren't real, anymore than Jesus is. I do appreciate their point, of 1400 years ago, that Abraham wasn't a Zoroastrian nor a Byzantine. Abraham, if a more realistic fictional character ... would be praying to El Elyon etc as named in Genesis. Those are Canaanite gods BTW. In the extra-Biblical legends, and I credit them as fiction as good as Genesis ... Abraham originally was a townie ... who revolted against his idol making father, and fled to the desert to escape an evil ruler (Nimrod) (sound familiar?). In the desert he found some bedouin, and joined up with them.
Did you hear about the one about teen Abraham and Terah, his idol making father? Abraham realized that his father was full of shit. That it was fraud to make gods of statues. But the money was too good for Terah. So like the teen he was, knowing himself far smarter than his dad, Abraham decided to make a statement. Terah had to go someplace, and left Abraham in charge of the idol shop. When Terah came back ... disaster! All the idols had been smashed with a hammer, except for one, whose outstretched hand, held a hammer. Terah was mad, and accused Abraham. Abraham replied, can't you see ... this god over here was jealous, and smashed the other idols.
And that is a hell of a good story, that should have made it into Genesis.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2017, 06:48:14 AM
You are offended? Are you 12? So you aren't even-older-than-me ... you are faking the adults here out?
My point ... spelling it out for a kid is ... "he started it first" is childish I. In a bar room fight ... shall we act 12 now, sir?
Human beings are aggressive ... get over it already. Don't like Muslim aggression? Good for you. Even Muslims shouldn't like it, unless they are 12. And this is a Muslim subject string .. so I will assume that you aren't implying ... well I don't like Muslim aggression, but I like American aggression ... you simply didn't provide that context. I didn't like Russian aggression, that is why I gave 10 years of my early adulthood to the Cold War. But not because I disliked Russians, because they were aggressive.
Usually, as a rhetorical device, I don't mind offending ... but usually I say ... be prepared (in the US) to be Chinese. That is politics for you ... the US is determined to be occupied by China, or are the politicians a bunch of joy riding 12 year olds? I have told, elsewhere, to Europeans .. that if you don't fight the Muslim immigration, then you will end up becoming Muslim. Care to dispute that? On that much I agree with Pr126. I don't dislike Muslims, or anyone else ... in that I am unlike Pr126. But for the last 4 years, European leadership in Ukraine and in Greece, has created chaos, like 12 year olds going for a joy ride in Dad's car. It is worse than 1914 over there. I got this song that impacted by grandparent's generation ... in my head ... "over there, over there, send the word, to beware, over there".
This is not a bar room fight, I am not 12, the US is not determined to be occupied by China, the US is not likely to become Moslem just because some move here (we are 70% Christian, 1.9% Jewish, .9% Moslem, .7% Hindu, and 22.8% No Religion, according to a Pew survey).
So your entire premise is weak at best and false at worst. Will you please start discussing things factually or just leave?
Go shit in the woods ;-) Kibbitz much? I was talking to Pr126 and his twisted view of Muslim scripture (but not of Muslim history). If you can't stay on topic (we were discussing Muslims, not me) ... maybe you need to go back and hibernate some more.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2017, 07:06:27 AM
Anything can be explained away, and I won't, it is pointless for me, because I am not Muslim. Yes, the Arabs are desert nomads, and are warlike. Is that why you and I are supporting Saudi Arabia? Don't complain about ISIS or the refugees they help create, while you support Saudi Arabia. Do you buy petrol (gas)? Part of that helps fund those madrassahs in England. You can thank Lawrence of Arabia for that.
So, basically, the Arabs are a conquering army ... always have been, always will be. So lets arm them with sophisticated weapons. Lets take a stick and stir the damn hornet's nest too. I know this ... not because of the Quran, but because of their present and historical behavior. For secular reasons. When I opposed the Soviet Union ... it wasn't because I opposed Russians or even communism, but because neutrally, they are large and aggressive.
Islam is going to take over the world one country at a time. Not a single shot needs to be fired. They win by their birth rate alone. It is only a matter of time until the majority of the electorate, especially in Europe, is Muslim. I am too old (hopefully) to see it but it's either civil wars between right wing populism and bronze age superstition or taking over of the entire political process by religious fundamentalists. Same in the US, here it's the christian fundies, the remnants of Cromwell's puritans who are infiltrating education and politics. Intelligent design or Sharia, pick your intellectual demise.
The Enlightenment was a temporary period of early modernity. We are now returning to Medieval normality.
However, I don't think the Muslims stand much of a chance against China or even India.