Atheistforums.com

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: fencerider on February 24, 2017, 01:09:18 AM

Title: Is there religion out there?
Post by: fencerider on February 24, 2017, 01:09:18 AM
Yesterday Feb 22,2017 late in the afternoon/early evening NASA announced the discovery of a star system with 7 earth size planets.
Today Feb 23,2017 a radio talk show host decided to stimulate a conversation by asking a provacative question. I think it would be interesting for all of you to answer that question.

Do you want them ( meaning sentient beings of the 7 planets) to be religious?
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on February 24, 2017, 02:01:27 AM
Quote from: fencerider on February 24, 2017, 01:09:18 AMDo you want them ( meaning sentient beings of the 7 planets) to be religious?
Depends on whether or not I'm planning to invade.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on February 24, 2017, 04:04:51 AM
I know it's a hypothetical, but I feel it depends on many different factors before I can give a satisfying answer.
Food for thought, though.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 24, 2017, 07:06:04 AM
if they have sentient life, then they will have culture.  That culture may or may not include religion.  So are you asking if I prefer they are Nazis (religious) or Stalinists (non-religious)?  Not a good question.  We don't want to let them know we are here ... reason ... cookbooks.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Mike Cl on February 24, 2017, 10:19:03 AM
Nope.  No religion.  At least that would be one less factor of non--logic for them.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on February 24, 2017, 12:39:33 PM
Well, that's a hell of a leap to get all the way to sentience, but as a hypothetical -- I think alien religion would be a fascinating sociological study, but by the same token, I would like to think there's some species out there that isn't bogged down by such non-rational nonsense.

The main things I would like to know are:
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Ro3bert on February 24, 2017, 12:50:32 PM
Well if there are I hope they don't decide to try to convert us to whatever "religion" they happen to practice. Especially if they fight over which one we should follow. (https://i2.wp.com/i.imgur.com/3ISOv4k.gif?zoom=2) (https://i2.wp.com/i.imgur.com/67XZMxA.gif?zoom=2)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on February 24, 2017, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: fencerider on February 24, 2017, 01:09:18 AM
Yesterday Feb 22,2017 late in the afternoon/early evening NASA announced the discovery of a star system with 7 earth size planets.
Today Feb 23,2017 a radio talk show host decided to stimulate a conversation by asking a provacative question. I think it would be interesting for all of you to answer that question.

Do you want them ( meaning sentient beings of the 7 planets) to be religious?
I'd rather they be religious, simply because then it's more likely they'll destroy themselves before they can manage to create the technology that would allow them to come destroy us.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on February 24, 2017, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 24, 2017, 07:06:04 AM
if they have sentient life, then they will have culture.  That culture may or may not include religion.  So are you asking if I prefer they are Nazis (religious) or Stalinists (non-religious)?  Not a good question.  We don't want to let them know we are here ... reason ... cookbooks.
For those who may have missed that reference, it comes from an old Twilight Zone, called "To Serve Man." It turned out to be a cookbook.


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ktweidEe4Gw/UGcjvYRv91I/AAAAAAAAJuI/PN-iNDs4EHY/s1600/108-0918070110-to-serve-man-521.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: doorknob on February 24, 2017, 05:34:37 PM
I say there are too many other factors to consider before I decide if I WANT them to have a religion or not.

How advanced are they? Does their religion make them a potential threat? How intelligent are they? Are they on our level? If they are above us or more advanced than us it does concern me if they have a religion because it means that humans with not cast off religion so easily either.

So while yes it does concern me, I'm mostly indifferent as long as their brand of religion is harmless. If it's anything like any Abrahamic religions then I'd be terrified of them coming here and forcing it on us.

Over all though in a general sense I'd prefer they didn't.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Sorginak on February 24, 2017, 06:01:51 PM
I do not want them to be anything except what they are.

However, to expect an entirely different civilization on an entirely different planet to be culturally similar to us on Earth is rather far fetched.

Considering that people on our planet Earth cannot agree on a single god or religion in which to believe, it is also highly unlikely that any life on different planets believe in the same god(s)/religion(s).



Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 24, 2017, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: Sorginak on February 24, 2017, 06:01:51 PM
I do not want them to be anything except what they are.

However, to expect an entirely different civilization on an entirely different planet to be culturally similar to us on Earth is rather far fetched.

Considering that people on our planet Earth cannot agree on a single god or religion in which to believe, it is also highly unlikely that any life on different planets believe in the same god(s)/religion(s).

Other species, on this planet or any other planet, are likely to be herbivore or carnivore.  How about "terror birds" civilization anyone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanis

Bad Big Bird ... bad!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: aitm on February 24, 2017, 07:31:57 PM
Evolution suggests a rather improbable lineage. While it can be seen in reverse and somewhat with an "aha" moment, it is still none-the-less rather as well, determined somewhat by the circumstances in which life is born and survives. So thinking that similar planets would produce similar sentient beings is nice and all, but the reality is that they could go off in directions so ...WAYYYYY out there, that we could not possibly guess at what kind of fucking whack-a-doo they might find to be reasonable let along religious.

Some of Star Treks "adventures" were amusing...the one with the people who "talked" using historical happenings as an entire description of an action and thus a reaction could seem somewhat possible until you think about it a bit longer. Chinese characters are somewhat close to this , but no where near what a infant would have to understand to become competent in such a culture as that.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 24, 2017, 08:39:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCmwClf0F8g

It is a profound meditation on the meaning of language, and the meaning of sentient life.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Blackleaf on February 24, 2017, 09:44:40 PM
On one hand, I think it would be interesting to learn about alien religions. Mythology can be fun to talk about in hypothetical terms. I've even made up a few of my own religions for the video game I'm making. On the other hand, religion could make them irrational, obnoxious, or even dangerous. Actually, if they don't have religion, it's probably best if they stay far away from us, lest we infect them with our religions. Maybe that's why no intelligent life has contacted us yet.

However, I think it's highly likely that intelligent life would have developed several religions throughout its history, especially if they're social beings. Religion works because it offers a sense of belonging for those at the bottom, and a sense of power and control for those at the top. If they're not social beings, I doubt they're a space-faring species. I doubt a planet of hermits could invent any advanced tools, much less a space ship. If they're curious about the world around them, it's likely that they would have considered the possibility of supernatural forces prior to developing scientific explanations. I'd say it's practically inevitable.

But if they are more advanced than us, have they outgrown their religions? To a degree, maybe. Perhaps religions have been limited to a select few members with little power, or their religions adapted to their changing standards. I expect they'd still have some religions lingering on, refusing to die, preying on those who drew the short sticks in life or desire some grand meaning to their existence.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on February 24, 2017, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 24, 2017, 09:44:40 PMOn one hand, I think it would be interesting to learn about alien religions.
That's all well and good until you get the Aeon Illuminate and the Earth Empire falls to civil war.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: aitm on February 25, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 24, 2017, 09:44:40 PM
On one hand, I think it would be interesting to learn about alien religions.
I dare say.....we have thousands on this planet alone.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: aitm on February 25, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 24, 2017, 09:44:40 PM
Mythology can be fun to talk about in hypothetical terms.

Mythology is defined by the reigning religion. Until xians murdered so many for refusing to comply, the Greek and Roman gods were just as real as the Judean and Xian. So real. Good. Not real. Bad..so sad.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Blackleaf on February 25, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Mythology is defined by the reigning religion. Until xians murdered so many for refusing to comply, the Greek and Roman gods were just as real as the Judean and Xian. So real. Good. Not real. Bad..so sad.

Greek/Roman mythology may be "dead," but its much more fun than modern religions.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 05:11:16 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
I dare say.....we have thousands on this planet alone.

With Zoroastrianism ... you get sky burial (body consumed by scavengers) just like the Lakota, and the stone age people who built Gobekle Tepe, the first stone building on Earth.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on February 25, 2017, 07:16:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 25, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
Greek/Roman mythology may be "dead," but its much more fun than modern religions.
If I had to pick a religion to be true, I'm with Stephen Fry: it would probably be that of classical Greece.  Not only did you have gods directly involved with humanity, they were comprehensible in a human way.

To which I would also add, also for the most part naked, muscular and willing.  :D
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 08:11:15 PM
Semitic religions, like semitic people, are way too puritanical ;-(  The Indo-European people and their religions ... eat, drink and be merry!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Blackleaf on February 25, 2017, 08:41:50 PM
Quote from: trdsf on February 25, 2017, 07:16:31 PM
If I had to pick a religion to be true, I'm with Stephen Fry: it would probably be that of classical Greece.  Not only did you have gods directly involved with humanity, they were comprehensible in a human way.

To which I would also add, also for the most part naked, muscular and willing.  :D

Greek mythology has terrifying consequences, if true, though. First, when you die, you go to Hades. A place at the center of the earth, with this gloomy atmosphere. No matter if you were good or evil, you could not escape Hades. Second, the gods can fuck with you whenever they want, and they often do so. They may try to rape you, or grant a wish knowing that you'd be royally screwed over by it, or they can turn you into some inanimate object that still has consciousness, or they can torment you for eternity in creative ways. A few examples that stand out are Prometheus, who was tied to a rock and had his regenerating liver eaten out by a bird every day, Tantalus, who was punished with eternal thirst and hunger in an environment where the water would recede away from him and the fruit of the trees would be just out of reach, and Tithonus, who was granted eternal life without eternal youth, so that he wished for death as he withered away but could not have it.

Sometimes the gods would even oppose one another, and put people in lose-lose situations as they were forced to obey one and disobey the other. Not even demi-gods were off the hook. Heracles was tortured his by Hera his entire life just because she was angry that he was the son of Zeus and another woman. I swear, every Greek story that comes to mind involves someone being majorly screwed over by the gods.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 10:16:45 PM
Yes, the Greek gods weren't proper Victorian moralists.  And generally opposed imperialism, unlike the Victorians.  Alexander was a semi-barbarian Macedonian, not a proper Greek, even if he claimed to be fathered by Zeus and descended from Heracles.  So basically, the only good gods are Gandhi and MLK, and the only good society the kind that Gandhi and MLK would promote?  Both Gandhi and MLK weren't gods of moral perfection ... though they gave it a very good go.

If you were queen of the Olympian gods, would you blame Hera her annoyance at Zeus' many dalliances?  Giving mankind fire (aka technology) .. now there is a two edged weapon of irony.  Remember, Prometheus was a Titan, a pardoned enemy of the Olympian gods ... the Titans having struggled to restore Chaos over Cosmos.  Prometheus' brother was Epimetheus ... husband of Pandora, she a gift from Zeus, and her famous box of ills.  But only one ill was kept, the illness of hope.  So I guess the gift of fire and the gift of Pandora (who Zeus with forethought knew would be too curious not to open the box) ... might cancel each other.   And some of the human characters who are tortured in Hades ... deserved their punishment.  Generally speaking .. Egyptian afterlife, in the later period, was more progressive.  It is primarily from Egypt that we derive the Biblical Last Judgement.

I suspect many here, if they were in ancient Greece, would be heretics like Pythagoras, going to their secret conclaves to do mathematical spells and corrupt politics, and worship new gods not approved ... like Socrates.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: fencerider on February 26, 2017, 01:09:37 AM
I hope that when people come from these 7 planets to earth that Baruch is here to explain all these religions to them. Too many religions to give you a headache.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:14:27 AM
Quote from: fencerider on February 26, 2017, 01:09:37 AM
I hope that when people come from these 7 planets to earth that Baruch is here to explain all these religions to them. Too many religions to give you a headache.

Maybe, but not the R religion and the D religion ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: fencerider on February 24, 2017, 01:09:18 AM
Yesterday Feb 22,2017 late in the afternoon/early evening NASA announced the discovery of a star system with 7 earth size planets.
Today Feb 23,2017 a radio talk show host decided to stimulate a conversation by asking a provacative question. I think it would be interesting for all of you to answer that question.

Do you want them ( meaning sentient beings of the 7 planets) to be religious?

As an atheist, why would I want other sentient beings to suffer the destructive idea of a deity?  NO!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
Quote from: Ro3bert on February 24, 2017, 12:50:32 PM
Well if there are I hope they don't decide to try to convert us to whatever "religion" they happen to practice. Especially if they fight over which one we should follow. (https://i2.wp.com/i.imgur.com/3ISOv4k.gif?zoom=2) (https://i2.wp.com/i.imgur.com/67XZMxA.gif?zoom=2)

Yeah.  I mean, what if their deity was a lab rat.  Or a cow.  We would be in a whole lot of trouble if we met...
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 12:21:15 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
Yeah.  I mean, what if their deity was a lab rat.  Or a cow.  We would be in a whole lot of trouble if we met...

What if they worshipped parasites in bear do-do?  You would be a church, not a god ;-))
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 12:56:18 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 12:21:15 PM
What if they worshipped parasites in bear do-do?  You would be a church, not a god ;-))

I would just be a carcass.  O wait, I probably have all my cats' parasites.  Including the one that makes you inane.  Nut bibly, do not reco frond the braille taod.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on February 26, 2017, 06:07:19 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 25, 2017, 08:41:50 PM
I swear, every Greek story that comes to mind involves someone being majorly screwed over by the gods.
Oh, I know.  Most of my preference for that religion is purely physical and hormonal.  I mean, c'mon, I'd do Apollo in a heartbeat.  :D
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: trdsf on February 26, 2017, 06:07:19 PM
Oh, I know.  Most of my preference for that religion is purely physical and hormonal.  I mean, c'mon, I'd do Apollo in a heartbeat.  :D

Not good ... jealous Dionysius will have his Maenad followers rip you to shreds ;-(  But Apollo could probably play a mean game of chess ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Ro3bert on February 28, 2017, 06:50:51 PM
I was going to add my 2¢ here but the thing has gotten so out of hand I think I'll pass and go away.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on February 28, 2017, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: Ro3bert on February 28, 2017, 06:50:51 PM
I was going to add my 2¢ here but the thing has gotten so out of hand I think I'll pass and go away.
Yeah, inflation brought it up to a nickel!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on March 02, 2017, 03:10:44 AM
When any argument is based on religion, it has to be in error.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 06:27:08 AM
etienne here, I'm new to the Forum.  Feel free to check out my intro salvo:  http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=11404.msg1170059#new

First, I don't think there is any advanced intelligent life "out there".  And I don't want there to be either, from what I've seen on movies--they wouldn't like us.  As far as I can tell, from what cosmologists say, it's just a bunch of fire and rocks out there, moving at high speed, so basically you don't want to be out there.  No O2 either which is a real drag.  Think of your struggles on Earth, then pretend you were on, say, Mars.  WAY harder.  This planet is somewhat a "walk in the park" by comparison.  But make no mistake, Nature doesn't care about you or I and She will bring you down in a NY minute and not think twice about it.

Back to the topic at hand.  Obviously nobody would want there to be religion out there given the mess it's made of humanity on planet Earth.  No, who wants "confused, vindictive ET"?  It would only make her/his wrath against us even worse with HIS "gawd" backing him up.  No, believe me, we don't want that.  Besides, if ET exists and has a "Gawd" then that "Gawd" would, by definition, have to cover jurisdiction on Earth on Her/His Universal "rounds" and there're Himalayan mountains of circumstantial evidence to suggest that that ain't happening.

I don't want the Earth Gawd and I dont want ET's Gawd either--unless She/He is going to play nice and give us more "free stuff".   :biggrin2:
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2017, 06:40:53 AM
ET's god is OK, if it provides free Reese's Pieces ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 07:49:52 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2017, 06:40:53 AM
ET's god is OK, if it provides free Reese's Pieces ;-)
Pieces of what?  lol!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 07:49:52 AM
Pieces of what?  lol!
Candy.  If this is a true story, the makers of ET wanted ET to eat M&M's in the movie, but the company refused.  If that is so, then that was a huge business mistake.  I think Reeses took a big bump when the movie came out.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 08:55:06 AM
Candy.  If this is a true story, the makers of ET wanted ET to eat M&M's in the movie, but the company refused.  If that is so, then that was a huge business mistake.  I think Reeses took a big bump when the movie came out.

I didnt see the movie.  So ET actually ate Reeses' Pcs in the movie?  Hey, have a Coca Cola and a Marlboro smoke while you're at it!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 11:42:05 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 10:29:43 AM
I didnt see the movie.  So ET actually ate Reeses' Pcs in the movie?  Hey, have a Coca Cola and a Marlboro smoke while you're at it!
Ya gotta see it.  Drew Barrymore was really cute in it.  As he was in Firestater (book was better, tho).
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 11:42:05 AM
Ya gotta see it.  Drew Barrymore was really cute in it.  As he was in Firestater (book was better, tho).

I never saw "Jurassic Park" until just recently on HBO when I had some time to kill.  And the time was sufficiently killed, brutally.  I hated it, worst movie that Spielburg ever produced--wow, so bad.  I dont go in for most Hollywood flix(propaganda) these days, even the latest "Jason Bourne" was kind of lame, a reiteration.  I think they are done with Bourne movies now.  I loved the 1st 4.  But I will watch a well done drama of some pertinent history or something or a very well done spy thriller or sci-fi, of which there are fewer and fewer that have some originality.  There are only so many options in story telling.  ET is not on my radar, but  thanks!  :)

Oh, of course I like a good comedy.  Also on HBO I saw "Balls of Fury" which was hilarious and very well done:  Chris Walkens has a hilarious role in it.   "Mr. Right" was fab too and there's this flick "Gentleman Broncos" that's out-there crazy if you haven't seen it.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 03:37:30 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
I never saw "Jurassic Park" until just recently on HBO when I had some time to kill.  And the time was sufficiently killed, brutally.  I hated it, worst movie that Spielburg ever produced--wow, so bad.  I dont go in for most Hollywood flix(propaganda) these days, even the latest "Jason Bourne" was kind of lame, a reiteration.  I think they are done with Bourne movies now.  I loved the 1st 4.  But I will watch a well done drama of some pertinent history or something or a very well done spy thriller or sci-fi, of which there are fewer and fewer that have some originality.  There are only so many options in story telling.  ET is not on my radar, but  thanks!  :)

Oh, of course I like a good comedy.  Also on HBO I saw "Balls of Fury" which was hilarious and very well done:  Chris Walkens has a hilarious role in it.   "Mr. Right" was fab too and there's this flick "Gentleman Broncos" that's out-there crazy if you haven't seen it.
Not much of movie goer either.  See maybe two a year in the theater--and that is because my wife wants company.  ET was long ago and one I remember seeing--and enjoying.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 10, 2017, 04:29:57 PM
(http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/GoodJesus3-web.jpg)



(http://pages.erau.edu/~andrewsa/jesus.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 10, 2017, 03:37:30 PM
Not much of movie goer either.  See maybe two a year in the theater--and that is because my wife wants company.  ET was long ago and one I remember seeing--and enjoying.
I generally prefer live theater over movies, anyway.  Entertainment, music, across the board has gotten so ridiculously overproduced it can be disgusting, especially the amount of $ they blow on the stuff.  I call it "over-produced garbage".
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 10, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
I kind of wish humans would "get over" the whole outer space thing, except for enjoying the pretty pictures Hubble Telescope, etc, provides.  Benign satellites are a nice thing too.  But living out there?  Forget about it.  You DON'T want to live out there.  It's a bunch of fire and rocks moving at high speeds and there is this one small problem called, "no air"!  If you are on Mars and there's a storm, it is a ROCK STORM, with 200 mph winds!  Just ask Matt Damon.  The thought of spending billions to "seed space"with human colonies is just plain absurd.  But, unfortunately, the 'good' little capitalists are already having "asteroid wars" over "rights" to asteroid mining in our solar system.  Destroy the Earth, then go destroy outer space.  Capitalism, like religion, poisons everything.

Quote"Asteroid mining is the exploitation of raw materials from asteroids and other minor planets, including near-Earth objects. Minerals and volatiles could be mined from an asteroid or spent comet then used in space for in-situ utilization (e.g. construction materials and rocket propellant) or taken back to Earth."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on March 10, 2017, 11:52:52 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
I never saw "Jurassic Park" until just recently on HBO when I had some time to kill.  And the time was sufficiently killed, brutally.  I hated it, worst movie that Spielburg ever produced--wow, so bad.  I dont go in for most Hollywood flix(propaganda) these days, even the latest "Jason Bourne" was kind of lame, a reiteration.  I think they are done with Bourne movies now.  I loved the 1st 4.  But I will watch a well done drama of some pertinent history or something or a very well done spy thriller or sci-fi, of which there are fewer and fewer that have some originality.  There are only so many options in story telling.  ET is not on my radar, but  thanks!  :)
Oh, no.  ET was infinitely worse than Jurassic Park.

I know that it's the director's job to manipulate the viewer.  But in ET, the manipulation was done with a cattle prod that Spielberg didn't bother even trying to hide.  It was sloppy and clumsy, maudlin and mawkish.  I'll watch 1941 before I ever watch ET again.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 12:06:28 AM
Quote from: trdsf on March 10, 2017, 11:52:52 PM
Oh, no.  ET was infinitely worse than Jurassic Park.

I know that it's the director's job to manipulate the viewer.  But in ET, the manipulation was done with a cattle prod that Spielberg didn't bother even trying to hide.  It was sloppy and clumsy, maudlin and mawkish.  I'll watch 1941 before I ever watch ET again.
It's difficult to believe that ET could be worse.  Thats the kind of crap that sells, though.  I dont even want to see another Marvel Comic super hero movie again, either.  The latest 'DeadPool' had some great one liners in it, but I'm done with super heroes, especially Batman/Superman.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 05:15:55 PMI kind of wish humans would "get over" the whole outer space thing, except for enjoying the pretty pictures Hubble Telescope, etc, provides.
<-- triggered

I'm not actually super angry, but contenting ourselves with pretty pictures and not actually going out there?  Really?

Worlds beyond counting.  Beyond naming, even.  We'd run out of names before we'd run out of planets.  Natural wonders galore.  Stuff beyond our wildest imaginations, and I have a pretty good imagination.

This is a massive opportunity right in front of our faces.  Not just to go somewhere else, but to learn and build and embark on the greatest journey mankind has ever taken and to become better than we were from the experience.  Space exploration is one of the few things people all around the world can get behind, and that unity of purpose, this shared dream, is incredibly important all by itself.

Besides, who wouldn't want to get a few AUs away from creationists, neonazis, and people who see nothing wrong with running video games at 30 fps?
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 01:25:51 AM
Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH3c1QZzRK4
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 01:34:12 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 01:21:42 AM
<-- triggered

I'm not actually super angry, but contenting ourselves with pretty pictures and not actually going out there?  Really?

Worlds beyond counting.  Beyond naming, even.  We'd run out of names before we'd run out of planets.  Natural wonders galore.  Stuff beyond our wildest imaginations, and I have a pretty good imagination.

This is a massive opportunity right in front of our faces.  Not just to go somewhere else, but to learn and build and embark on the greatest journey mankind has ever taken and to become better than we were from the experience.  Space exploration is one of the few things people all around the world can get behind, and that unity of purpose, this shared dream, is incredibly important all by itself.

Besides, who wouldn't want to get a few AUs away from creationists, neonazis, and people who see nothing wrong with running video games at 30 fps?
You can't get there from here.

Being out there just looks like what you see through the Hubble tele.  Thats it.  Big lights, fire and brimstone, moving at high speeds with NO AIR!  You think Earth is harsh, out "there" is harsh times a million.  You can't live out there, and have you explored all the amazing beauty of this planet, which you will never find out there?  How about do that before you die?  You get stranded out there, you'll be wishing you had your nice puppy dog to cuddle and a nice warm woman, or man, or tranny, or whatev.

AND, as I said, capitalists will just transport their imperialist insanity and violence out there.  So, no, you won't be able to get away from the Nazis.  You know about that wife-beating Darth Vader guy, right?  They call it Star WARS for a reason!

(http://static.flickr.com/50/128547002_f85c05c2bb.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 01:42:53 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 01:25:51 AM
Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH3c1QZzRK4
Yeah, great asteroid storms there, how "romantic".  I seriously dont agree with the premise.  I am content watching a robin hopping around all day.  Or gazing into a cat's eyes. Or or or...a million things.  How about learn classic guitar, there are whole universes there, and its cheaper--you can get a decnt guitar @ "The Pawnographers' Shop 'n Save"  Space is good for looking at, from afar, like, with your feet on the earth.

Yooge waste of $ and resources anyway.  End starvation on earth 1st, then go out there, if you have to, but dont expect us to give you cab fare home when you get lost.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 02:12:46 AM
...

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, albeit with the heat of a thousand suns.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 05:41:06 AM
Etienne, I not only like the cut of your jib, I like the hum of your lightsaber too.  And your blaster ... targeting that exact, you have to be an Imperial Stormtrooper!  Don't trust Hans Solo, if his gun arm is under the table though.

I have worked a little with NASA (I got three days, illicitly, working on the Hubble), knew others in the space business.  It is part of the Anglo-Russian imperialism.  It has just mutated from a subsidized public sector to a subsidized private sector ... the capitalism is even more corrupt than in the 1960s.  The exploitation of the masses no longer needs a fake government to act as a velvet glove ... we are getting the full metal gauntlet ... right in the kisser.

I am still an imperialist/police state guy ... but I am too rebellious not to appreciate the alternatives.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 07:08:51 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 05:41:06 AM
Etienne, I not only like the cut of your jib, I like the hum of your lightsaber too.  And your blaster ... targeting that exact, you have to be an Imperial Stormtrooper!  Don't trust Hans Solo, if his gun arm is under the table though.

I have worked a little with NASA (I got three days, illicitly, working on the Hubble), knew others in the space business.  It is part of the Anglo-Russian imperialism.  It has just mutated from a subsidized public sector to a subsidized private sector ... the capitalism is even more corrupt than in the 1960s.  The exploitation of the masses no longer needs a fake government to act as a velvet glove ... we are getting the full metal gauntlet ... right in the kisser.

I am still an imperialist/police state guy ... but I am too rebellious not to appreciate the alternatives.
Yeah, what you said.  I guess I showed "009" whats up, didnt I?

The USSR was the 1st ones to send a rocket to "space", wasn't they?  Yeah, I think so, that's cuz socialism is so BAD and nobody can do what they want, like play chess and classical piano and dance ballet and play hockey and cool stuff like that! 

They got that Virgin record guy, or somebody, sending rocket ships up there for no reason too when he's not crashing his jet planes into the ocean  Seriously, I'm not so sure the Space Buddies can pull it off going WAY out there where they say they want to.  Look at all the trouble they had with Matt Damon, and that's just MARS.  What if ISIS has taken over Mars and we have to build a space Ark and escape to the far reaches of Nebulon or something?  We are SCREWED!

Space, you don't wanna be there.

(P.S., You have GOT to see "Gentleman Broncos", if you haven't!)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-0Avc56oRqc/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 07:24:03 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 11, 2017, 02:12:46 AM
...

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, albeit with the heat of a thousand suns.
Like I always say, if you've seen one supernova, you've seen them all.  And do you want to be directing traffic right next to a supernova when it decides to "go postal"?  I don't think so.  ;)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 11, 2017, 07:24:03 AM
Like I always say, if you've seen one supernova, you've seen them all.  And do you want to be directing traffic right next to a supernova when it decides to "go postal"?  I don't think so.  ;)

Guys who grew up on video games, think there are "cheat codes" to real life.

Gentlemen Broncos?  Like Spinal Tap ... to 11.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 09:40:28 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Guys who grew up on video games, think there are "cheat codes" to real life.

Gentlemen Broncos?  Like Spinal Tap ... to 11.
I don't "get" the whole vid game thing.  I never even liked PacMan.  "Gentleman Broncos" is "out there" hilarious.  Sam Rockwell.  11 for sure.  That's all I'll say.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 09:44:57 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 11, 2017, 09:40:28 AM
I don't "get" the whole vid game thing.  I never even liked PacMan.  "Gentleman Broncos" is "out there" hilarious.  Sam Rockwell.  11 for sure.  That's all I'll say.

Well, you are an artiste in spirit, yes?  I am from the Rocky Horror Picture generation.  But please, no French perfume commercials, nobody understands those ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 09:44:57 AM
Well, you are an artiste in spirit, yes?  I am from the Rocky Horror Picture generation.  But please, no French perfume commercials, nobody understands those ;-)
If I had a spirit, yes.

Latest vid game offering from Nazi asshole Ahnold:
(http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/201511/19/article_sub_img/a0e98vhy0cgqd90c/3002.jpg)(http://images.uncyc.org/commons/9/98/180px-Arnoldsalute.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Blackleaf on March 11, 2017, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 11, 2017, 09:40:28 AM
I don't "get" the whole vid game thing.  I never even liked PacMan.  "Gentleman Broncos" is "out there" hilarious.  Sam Rockwell.  11 for sure.  That's all I'll say.

At this point, it might be easier to list what things you do like and take it from there.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 11, 2017, 09:58:15 AM
At this point, it might be easier to list what things you do like and take it from there.
I may do that, and I may just keep dissing idiotic, adolescent vid game playing.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: fencerider on March 11, 2017, 02:32:26 PM
I suppose we might be saving the rest of the galaxy some trouble if we decide to just stay here for a while.... probably best that we stay here at least until we GROW UP.

Eventually technology will improve to the point that going out there won't be a massive undertaking just to get off the planet.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 11, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 10, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
I kind of wish humans would "get over" the whole outer space thing, except for enjoying the pretty pictures Hubble Telescope, etc, provides.  Benign satellites are a nice thing too.  But living out there?  Forget about it.  You DON'T want to live out there.  It's a bunch of fire and rocks moving at high speeds and there is this one small problem called, "no air"!  If you are on Mars and there's a storm, it is a ROCK STORM, with 200 mph winds!  Just ask Matt Damon.  The thought of spending billions to "seed space"with human colonies is just plain absurd.  But, unfortunately, the 'good' little capitalists are already having "asteroid wars" over "rights" to asteroid mining in our solar system.  Destroy the Earth, then go destroy outer space.  Capitalism, like religion, poisons everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining


We already live in outer space - we're riding a spaceship through the cosmos. It's not artificial, but we could actually build those, too. There's plenty of material in the solar system to make our own artificial planets (http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a10946/could-we-ever-build-an-artificial-world-17025054/).

I admit, it wouldn't be easy, but it's possible, if we wanted or needed to badly enough:
The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Frontier:_Human_Colonies_in_Space)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 11, 2017, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 10, 2017, 11:52:52 PM
I'll watch 1941 before I ever watch ET again.

1941 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_(film)) - a movie that will live in infamy...

One of my favorite comedies! A laugh a minute! Slim Pickens was hilarious. The guys in the ferris wheel - classic.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 11, 2017, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: fencerider
I suppose we might be saving the rest of the galaxy some trouble if we decide to just stay here for a while.... probably best that we stay here at least until we GROW UP.
If Gort tries to take us out, just remember, "Klaatu Barada Nikto."

Quote from: fenceriderEventually technology will improve to the point that going out there won't be a massive undertaking just to get off the planet.
Why even waste our time, when we could simply...reach. Robots in space. We already have a well developed start, to what might be the ultimate economic symbiosis, of mankind and our machines: exploitation of extraterrestrial resources, with limited direct interaction from vulnerable humans.

Vast spacecraft, built to harvest asteroids, utilizing a crew of specialized machines, and similar set-ups, anywhere we can find something worth the trouble. No need for humans to risk their lives, when our tools can reach far beyond our fragile fleshy grasp. 
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 11, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 11, 2017, 06:11:41 PM
If Gort tries to take us out, just remember, "Klaatu Barada Nikto."

Yeah, just don't forget the damned words!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvXtexdgAM
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 11, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2017, 05:26:20 PM

We already live in outer space - we're riding a spaceship through the cosmos. It's not artificial, but we could actually build those, too. There's plenty of material in the solar system to make our own artificial planets (http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a10946/could-we-ever-build-an-artificial-world-17025054/).

I admit, it wouldn't be easy, but it's possible, if we wanted or needed to badly enough:
The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Frontier:_Human_Colonies_in_Space)
First of all, YOU won't build anything, they have these things called wage "workers" that do that.  Second, go for it, and good luck.  You DO realize that it costs them a few billion dollars and a giant lab to extract a 1/2 cup of H2O from moon rocks, right?  But np problem, air, water, not an issue....
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 11, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
First of all, YOU won't build anything, they have these things called wage "workers" that do that.  Second, go for it, and good luck.  You DO realize that it costs them a few billion dollars and a giant lab to extract a 1/2 cup of H2O from moon rocks, right?  But np problem, air, water, not an issue....

With free fiat currency, paid for by the poverty of other nations, expenses are no problem ...
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 12, 2017, 03:21:39 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2017, 11:24:08 PM
With free fiat currency, paid for by the poverty of other nations, expenses are no problem ...
Yeah, it's like that, public-->private, and imperialism.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 03:55:23 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 12, 2017, 03:21:39 PM
Yeah, it's like that, public-->private, and imperialism.


Humans are predatory.  Sorry you are meat on the table?  So ... you are the other White meat, or Dark?
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 12, 2017, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 03:55:23 PM

Humans are predatory.  Sorry you are meat on the table?  So ... you are the other White meat, or Dark?
We are if we are hungry.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 04:59:49 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 12, 2017, 04:17:55 PM
We are if we are hungry.

We are always hungry, we just have creative ways to eat each other.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 12, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 04:59:49 PM
We are always hungry, we just have creative ways to eat each other.
If you are hungry, I recommend this over cannibalism:

(http://www.adweek.com/core/wp-content/uploads/sites/prnewser/2013/07/chow22.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 07:26:56 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 12, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
If you are hungry, I recommend this over cannibalism:

(http://www.adweek.com/core/wp-content/uploads/sites/prnewser/2013/07/chow22.jpg)

Only if the whiners are kosher ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 12, 2017, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2017, 07:26:56 PM
Only if the whiners are kosher ;-)
Atheist website, I assumed atheist whiners.  And I haven't been disappointed, lol!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Solomon Zorn on March 12, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
Yeah, just don't forget the damned words! [Like Bruce Campbell did, in Army of Darkness]
Yeah, I think he actually got them wrong, even when he got them right. I'm pretty sure Klaatu said, "Barada," and Ax said, "Varada".

Army of Darkness is a classic.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on March 13, 2017, 03:34:40 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 11, 2017, 01:42:53 AM
Yooge waste of $ and resources anyway.  End starvation on earth 1st, then go out there, if you have to, but dont expect us to give you cab fare home when you get lost.
If we remain a one-planet species, we are ultimately doomed.  Not might be, are.  Even if we dodge a killer asteroid at some point in the future, either through luck or (hah!) foresight, even if we sort out our priorities with regard to the health of our planetary ecosphere, there is still a hard limit to how long we can stay here.  Unless you want to posit rejuvenating the sun, but I think that unlikely.

I don't buy the "let's fix things here first" argument.  In the first place, had we done that in the 1960s and 1970s, you would not be on this website arguing against exploration because NASA is where those fundamental communication technologies that allow the Internet to work were developed.  You would not have your cell phone, certainly not in slim pocket form.

Exploration breeds results.  And just because we can't predict what those results are going to be ahead of time is no reason to not explore.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 13, 2017, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 13, 2017, 03:34:40 PM
If we remain a one-planet species, we are ultimately doomed.  Not might be, are.  Even if we dodge a killer asteroid at some point in the future, either through luck or (hah!) foresight, even if we sort out our priorities with regard to the health of our planetary ecosphere, there is still a hard limit to how long we can stay here.  Unless you want to posit rejuvenating the sun, but I think that unlikely.

I don't buy the "let's fix things here first" argument.  In the first place, had we done that in the 1960s and 1970s, you would not be on this website arguing against exploration because NASA is where those fundamental communication technologies that allow the Internet to work were developed.  You would not have your cell phone, certainly not in slim pocket form.

Exploration breeds results.  And just because we can't predict what those results are going to be ahead of time is no reason to not explore.
I can live w/o velcro, lol!  I don't think there is any substantial case that w/o space tech there wouldn't be the interwebs.  We would have gotten it regardless--inevitable.  DARPA(military) created it anyway.  But guess what, I can live just fine w/o computers and the interwebs, did it for decades.  I'd rather garden and play music, and go snorkeling, actually--much easier  But, I know there are space techy Treky freaks that just need themselves some SPACE, because they evidently dont have plenty already between their ears, lol!

Dream on dreamers, but you think the asteroid threat is bad here just wait til you get the F out there:
(http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/asteroid-image-nova.jpg)

And I repeat, Starwars.  If Man doesn't check himself here real soon, he gonna wreck himself worse out there.

Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 13, 2017, 06:34:11 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 13, 2017, 03:34:40 PM
If we remain a one-planet species, we are ultimately doomed.  Not might be, are.  Even if we dodge a killer asteroid at some point in the future, either through luck or (hah!) foresight, even if we sort out our priorities with regard to the health of our planetary ecosphere, there is still a hard limit to how long we can stay here.  Unless you want to posit rejuvenating the sun, but I think that unlikely.

I don't buy the "let's fix things here first" argument.  In the first place, had we done that in the 1960s and 1970s, you would not be on this website arguing against exploration because NASA is where those fundamental communication technologies that allow the Internet to work were developed.  You would not have your cell phone, certainly not in slim pocket form.

Exploration breeds results.  And just because we can't predict what those results are going to be ahead of time is no reason to not explore.

Tang.  DoD paid for it, not NASA.  DoD is pushing for the autonomous vehicles, thru DARPA, not Ford.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: fencerider on March 14, 2017, 12:26:13 AM
explore the public privey?

dont think we need to explore the outer space yet. Ha. we got a whole nudder dimention insida Trump's head. Could take a while to explore that space. Besides you get to messin around in space yu'll be messin with the peace and quiet of my vacation home;-)

They are avoiding space for some reason. first they said about mars that we donr know if its possible for people to live there. Then they did biosphere 1 was suppsed to answer all their questions about a trip to Mars. Then they came out 20 years later with biosphere 2 and said they were getting answers to the same questions. Then just a couple years ago another research project to answer the same questions. Kinda like every election republicans in Congress talk about abortion et.al. but they never do anything cause if they did there wouldnt be anything to campaign about next time...
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:16:34 AM
Quote from: fencerider on March 14, 2017, 12:26:13 AM
explore the public privey?

dont think we need to explore the outer space yet. Ha. we got a whole nudder dimention insida Trump's head. Could take a while to explore that space. Besides you get to messin around in space yu'll be messin with the peace and quiet of my vacation home;-)

They are avoiding space for some reason. first they said about mars that we donr know if its possible for people to live there. Then they did biosphere 1 was suppsed to answer all their questions about a trip to Mars. Then they came out 20 years later with biosphere 2 and said they were getting answers to the same questions. Then just a couple years ago another research project to answer the same questions. Kinda like every election republicans in Congress talk about abortion et.al. but they never do anything cause if they did there wouldnt be anything to campaign about next time...
"Avoiding"?  They already are fighting battles over "asteroid rights" in proximity to the Earth. 

http://www.planetaryresources.com/#home-intro

But I think they are full of poo if they think they are going to do much colonizing of other planets anytime soon, or ever.  The Ape in Thief may blow us all to Kingdom Come with his unopposable paw long before that.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:25:17 AM
Quote from: fencerider on March 14, 2017, 12:26:13 AM
explore the public privey?

dont think we need to explore the outer space yet. Ha. we got a whole nudder dimention insida Trump's head. Could take a while to explore that space. Besides you get to messin around in space yu'll be messin with the peace and quiet of my vacation home;-)

They are avoiding space for some reason. first they said about mars that we donr know if its possible for people to live there. Then they did biosphere 1 was suppsed to answer all their questions about a trip to Mars. Then they came out 20 years later with biosphere 2 and said they were getting answers to the same questions. Then just a couple years ago another research project to answer the same questions. Kinda like every election republicans in Congress talk about abortion et.al. but they never do anything cause if they did there wouldnt be anything to campaign about next time...

I visited Oracle AZ, between Biosphere I and II ... a scam, by Texas billionaires.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:25:17 AM
I visited Oracle AZ, between Biosphere I and II ... a scam, by Texas billionaires.
Like they say, "those that live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones", did I get that right?  Good luck building that glass crap on 200 mph rock-storm Mars.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 01:56:10 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
Like they say, "those that live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones", did I get that right?  Good luck building that glass crap on 200 mph rock-storm Mars.

Caves and skylights...
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 06:36:01 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
Like they say, "those that live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones", did I get that right?  Good luck building that glass crap on 200 mph rock-storm Mars.

That happened before Elon Musk was able to get the taxpayer to subsidize his mad schemes, like electric cars.  He still loses money on each and every sale.  At least Texas oilmen were actually selling something at a profit.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:35:32 AM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 06:36:01 AM
That happened before Elon Musk was able to get the taxpayer to subsidize his mad schemes, like electric cars.  He still loses money on each and every sale.  At least Texas oilmen were actually selling something at a profit.
Black gold.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 07:37:39 AM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:35:32 AM
Black gold.

Oh good, Baruch and etienne are arguing.  Maybe this will keep them both busy and not bothering the rest of us.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: FinalSomnia on March 14, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 07:37:39 AM
Oh good, Baruch and etienne are arguing.  Maybe this will keep them both busy and not bothering the rest of us.
I'm not saying it's the unstoppable farce meets the immovable bore, but...
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 07:37:39 AM
Oh good, Baruch and etienne are arguing.  Maybe this will keep them both busy and not bothering the rest of us.

Etienne and I both agree that bears shit in the woods ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: FinalSomnia on March 14, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
I'm not saying it's the unstoppable farce meets the immovable bore, but...

The King's jester is the smartest guy at court ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
Quote from: FinalSomnia on March 14, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
I'm not saying it's the unstoppable farce meets the immovable bore, but...
But your "name" says you are already dead, so I dont see the issue hear.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
The King's jester is the smartest guy at court ;-)
Thats the f'ing TRUTH right there!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:52:57 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:42:37 PM
Etienne and I both agree that bears shit in the woods ;-)
I've got the new coolest thread on this entire board too, where all the cool people want to be.  Baruch and me, that is.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on March 14, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 13, 2017, 06:13:10 PM
I can live w/o velcro, lol!  I don't think there is any substantial case that w/o space tech there wouldn't be the interwebs.  We would have gotten it regardless--inevitable.  DARPA(military) created it anyway.  But guess what, I can live just fine w/o computers and the interwebs, did it for decades.  I'd rather garden and play music, and go snorkeling, actually--much easier  But, I know there are space techy Treky freaks that just need themselves some SPACE, because they evidently dont have plenty already between their ears, lol!
Velcro long predates the space program.  I spoke quite clearly of the communications technology, not the computer technology (which was DARPA, yes, you get a cookie).

And I don't think you can live without computers, you seem to have some strange need to come here and make a fool of yourself.  But please, feel free to prove me wrong about you and computers, I'm sure we'll both be happier.

As for the rest of what you said here, it's a pointless ad hominem, please try again when you have an actual point.

Quote from: etienne on March 13, 2017, 06:13:10 PM
Dream on dreamers, but you think the asteroid threat is bad here just wait til you get the F out there:
(http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/asteroid-image-nova.jpg)

And I repeat, Starwars.  If Man doesn't check himself here real soon, he gonna wreck himself worse out there.
If you think that's what the asteroid belt looks like, you need Remedial Astronomy pretty badly.  At best Saturn's rings might look that crowded -- but probably not, since we have successfully send spacecraft through the ring plane without disaster.

Space, as Douglas Adams wrote, is big.  Really big.  You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.  We know of about half a million in the inner solar system -- which, on average, have about half a million square kilometers open space around them in their orbital planes.  If the asteroid belt looked like your image, it would be a visible band of haze in the night sky.

And any wars in space will be over the same things wars here are about: resources.  So Man will simply wreck himself exactly the same as he's always done.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 02:31:24 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 14, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
Velcro long predates the space program.  I spoke quite clearly of the communications technology, not the computer technology (which was DARPA, yes, you get a cookie).

And I don't think you can live without computers, you seem to have some strange need to come here and make a fool of yourself.  But please, feel free to prove me wrong about you and computers, I'm sure we'll both be happier.

As for the rest of what you said here, it's a pointless ad hominem, please try again when you have an actual point.
If you think that's what the asteroid belt looks like, you need Remedial Astronomy pretty badly.  At best Saturn's rings might look that crowded -- but probably not, since we have successfully send spacecraft through the ring plane without disaster.

Space, as Douglas Adams wrote, is big.  Really big.  You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.  We know of about half a million in the inner solar system -- which, on average, have about half a million square kilometers open space around them in their orbital planes.  If the asteroid belt looked like your image, it would be a visible band of haze in the night sky.

And any wars in space will be over the same things wars here are about: resources.  So Man will simply wreck himself exactly the same as he's always done.
Ok, cya turd muffin, or whatever your nick is, thanks for playing.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 06:03:18 PM
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-not-to-leave-planet-earth-would-be-like-castaways-on-a-desert-island-not-trying-to-escape-stephen-hawking-86-94-52.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 14, 2017, 06:31:49 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 02:31:24 PMOk, cya turd muffin, or whatever your nick is, thanks for playing.
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/profiles/icons/big/000/125/503/544458_549037105131138_429516875_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 06:03:18 PM
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-not-to-leave-planet-earth-would-be-like-castaways-on-a-desert-island-not-trying-to-escape-stephen-hawking-86-94-52.jpg)
Hawking is a brilliant theoretical scientist and writer.  But that doesn't mean he necessarily knows much about ethics or practicality in the material world.  In fact, I think he is completely ignorant of the real material world.  What work has he ever done, in the real material world?  He's a "theorist".

I completely disagree with Hawking's take there.  Humans DONT have to go out there.  The chances of human beings surviving out there, as I have abundantly described, are BAD, very BAD.  Much easier here on earth.  But he's a scientist, so he's more or less paid to say that kind of stuff.  It's in his material interests to do so.  Otherwise, he's out of a J O B.

He'd have a real tough time rolling his wheel chair around out there on the crusty crust of Nebulon, anyway.  He should just stay in his nice, well ventilated, weather controlled office, where he has all his fun lab toys to play with.  OUCH!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 14, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 14, 2017, 01:49:11 PMAnd any wars in space will be over the same things wars here are about: resources.  So Man will simply wreck himself exactly the same as he's always done.
Yep.  Also, despite the incredibly prescient nature of the Star Wars documentary [/sarcasm], it's not at all certain that human colonies in outer space will be particularly warlike.

For starters, they'd be heavily dependent on Earth for whatever resources they can't produce themselves.  Second, war is on the decline (https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace/#ongoing-wars), particularly between great powers.  That could change, but the smart money is the process continues for the foreseeable future.  And finally, there are international treaties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarisation_of_space#Space_treaties) in place to not militarize space.  Sure they could disregard the treaties and arm themselves, but they'd face harsh criticism, political pressure, and possibly also economic pressure to return to peaceable norms.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
Well, It won't matter to me, one way or the other - I'll be out of here long before we could begin to try to colonize anything out there. It's just something interesting to think about, like the idea that the universe only has one electron, bouncing back and forth through time...or that dark matter exists in a parallel universe and only it's gravity can be felt in our universe. Just something fun to think about.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:10:31 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
Well, It won't matter to me, one way or the other - I'll be out of here long before we could begin to try to colonize anything out there. It's just something interesting to think about, like the idea that the universe only has one electron, bouncing back and forth through time...or that dark matter exists in a parallel universe and only it's gravity can be felt in our universe. Just something fun to think about.
I dont even think they will be able to build those super duper robotic futuristic cities you see constantly in the movies, quite frankly. Yeah, Dubai and Kuwait have a shit ton of oil $ right now to be the current state of the art, but thats not going to last forever.  Something's gotta give.  The earth only has limited resources and capitalism assumes unlimited resources.  Nature will force the issue at some point as to resources--and climate. So what, 6-7 billion people are just going to pack up and leave for Mars?  Thats not going to happen.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 07:21:20 PM
Nah, not Mars. That's an example of planetary chauvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_chauvinism), but we don't really have to have planets if we can build our own habitats. I know, that's a very big "if."
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 14, 2017, 07:27:57 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 14, 2017, 07:21:20 PM
Nah, not Mars. That's an example of planetary chauvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_chauvinism), but we don't really have to have planets if we can build our own habitats. I know, that's a very big "if."
Sure, and while we're at it, I'll just hook up with Natalie Portman, because even though she has never met me nor will ever meet me, I KNOW she loves me!
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 12:50:14 PM
Thats the fucking TRUTH right there!

If Shakespeare hadn't killed Yorick, before the play, Hamlet, had even begun, Yorick would have stolen all of Hamlet's best lines ;-)
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on March 15, 2017, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 14, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
For starters, they'd be heavily dependent on Earth for whatever resources they can't produce themselves.  Second, war is on the decline (https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace/#ongoing-wars), particularly between great powers.  That could change, but the smart money is the process continues for the foreseeable future.  And finally, there are international treaties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarisation_of_space#Space_treaties) in place to not militarize space.  Sure they could disregard the treaties and arm themselves, but they'd face harsh criticism, political pressure, and possibly also economic pressure to return to peaceable norms.
Well, no treaty ever survived any nation deciding it was no longer in their interests, whether by unilateral abrogation or by re-negotiation.  Certainly China's responsibilities under Article IX of the Outer Space Treaty (of which it is a signatory) didn't stop them from their 2007 anti-satellite missile test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test), and nearly 3,000 pieces of debris remain on orbit from that nearly ten years later, and that may have provided the political impetus for the American shootdown of the USA-193 satellite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Burnt_Frost) about a year later -- although in that case, most of the tracked debris de-orbited within a couple months, and all of it within a year and a half.

Interestingly, the various space treaties only bar WMD from space -- nuclear, chemical and biological weapons -- not conventional weapons, nor kinetic impactors/mass drivers.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: etienne on March 15, 2017, 02:42:16 PM
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 07:47:03 PM
If Shakespeare hadn't killed Yorick, before the play, Hamlet, had even begun, Yorick would have stolen all of Hamlet's best lines ;-)
Yep, they always have to do a hit on the Jester, lest the truth come out too soon.  Jester's are an oppressed class.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: trdsf on March 15, 2017, 12:40:47 PMWell, no treaty ever survived any nation deciding it was no longer in their interests, whether by unilateral abrogation or by re-negotiation.  Certainly China's responsibilities under Article IX of the Outer Space Treaty (of which it is a signatory) didn't stop them from their 2007 anti-satellite missile test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test), and nearly 3,000 pieces of debris remain on orbit from that nearly ten years later, and that may have provided the political impetus for the American shootdown of the USA-193 satellite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Burnt_Frost) about a year later -- although in that case, most of the tracked debris de-orbited within a couple months, and all of it within a year and a half.

Interestingly, the various space treaties only bar WMD from space -- nuclear, chemical and biological weapons -- not conventional weapons, nor kinetic impactors/mass drivers.
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: trdsf on March 15, 2017, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.
What continues to irk me is the deliberate blindness by both parties to the inspirational value of the space program.  Remember the outcry when they were going to decommission Hubble -- which actually saved it?  The interest in the Mars rovers, in the Pluto flyby?

I continue to be appalled that the moon landings are further in the past to my nieces (24 years) than World War II is to me (18 years).  We haven't really done anything but doddle about just barely outside the atmosphere for the last forty-five years.  How is that supposed to engage citizen interest?

I think the public will is probably far ahead of where the political will is.  And I don't buy the arguments about the expense -- NASA's budget for everything is less than one half of one percent of the Federal budget.  It's barely the cost of three new nuclear subs (and they're planning on buying 12), and unlike the subs, it generates ongoing return on investment.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2017, 06:33:01 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.

So if we change the tax code, to tax at 100% ... and it doesn't work out well, then the people are at fault ... not the 1% who actually control the government?  Sounds like victim blaming to me.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 07:57:06 AM
Quote from: FinalSomnia on March 14, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
I'm not saying it's the unstoppable farce meets the immovable bore, but...

Hey, etienne and Baruch are just opposite sides of a coin I don't bother to toss.  I consider them 2D and I am 3D.
Title: Re: Is there religion out there?
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on March 16, 2017, 07:57:06 AM
Hey, etienne and Baruch are just opposite sides of a coin I don't bother to toss.  I consider them 2D and I am 3D.

I will admit that your avatar is well drawn, call it 2.5 D.