Today, I would like to talk about the GPS currently available for cars. There is currently two schools of thought: 1)they work fine, and 2)they are total crap, and I can do it better. And the debate is often as strident as science vs religion. From my observations, the participants in the debate seem to be divided by a demographic that parts ways somewhere around the age of 50, but this is just an average. My friend John, age 70, used to be in the second group. He prefers a map, but he's changed a bit in the last 4 years. He points out that the problem with the GPS is that it doesn't tell him where he's at. And that's kind of true, and I understand that this can be disconcerting. The GPS only shows you how to get where you want to go. It dispenses with where you are, and simply tells you where to turn and which way to go.
Now to get to where you want to go, it is vital to know where you're at when using a map. A map will tell you where you are, but only if you actually know where you are. If you don't know, you're screwed. The GPS doesn't tell you where you are, but when you think about it, that information is navigationally irrelevant. Why care about where you are at if you don't want to be there, anyway?
My over 50 friends, like to argue with the GPS. My old girlfriend would ignore the GPS and intuitively go a different way. This is OK in familiar territory, but out in the middle of nowhere, pitting intuition against the GPS often led us to places we didn't want to be. Why do people argue with the GPS? But no biggy. If you go your own way, the GPS will recalculate and plot a new course to where you want to go. But it seems like an odd response to the GPS.
Another argument against the GPS is that if it's not up to date, it will sometimes want to take you on a road that may no longer exist. This is a problem, and I've encountered it myself, but the same can be said for out of date maps. After all, the map in your GPS is derived from an actual map, which may or may not be correct. The problem can traced back to someone's map.
If two people are in the same car, one can act as navigator using a map. This would be preferred. That is, if humans didn't make navigational errors, but two people with a map can argue among themselves and end up in the wrong place too, and I've experienced that enough times to know that this happens enough to be annoying.
Fact is, I haven't even had a map in my car for 10 years. OK, that's a fib. I think I could probably find an old ragged one under a seat somewhere. But I don't use a map anymore. Sometimes, the GPS takes me down side streets when I know the main road will get me to Costco. I don't always know what the GPS is doing, and frankly I don't care, as long as I end up at Costco, which I always do.
But for those who are sworn enemies of the GPS, none of this is important. Doing something a new way is annoying, while the traditional ways, with problems you have grown used to, feels more reassuring. I get it.
Different things. There is the position locating. There is the map. There is the route finding. The position locating depends on the satellites ... that is good. The map depends on Google vs Apple, and Apple failed. Route finding is a simple algorithm, that is just a programmer guessing. If you know men, and know programmers, the algorithm can't be very good, unless a woman programer writes it ... just ask a man who is lost ... you will find he didn't consult the map (or read the instructions on new equipment).
My car doesn't have a gps in it. I Always say I should buy one, but I never do.
When I need to go somewhere new, eithr my gf checks on her iPhone and acts as gps, or I look it up in advance on online maps and, if need be, make some scribbles.
I tend to do the online map thing anyways, it gives me a bird-eye's view of the place I need to go, making it easier to navigate in the final stretch, should I find some Streets have become one-way or are closed down or ...
Bottom line, I think GPS is more usefull, but I wouldn't throw away maps just yet.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 23, 2017, 07:18:19 AM
My car doesn't have a gps in it. I Always say I should buy one, but I never do.
When I need to go somewhere new, eithr my gf checks on her iPhone and acts as gps, or I look it up in advance on online maps and, if need be, make some scribbles.
I tend to do the online map thing anyways, it gives me a bird-eye's view of the place I need to go, making it easier to navigate in the final stretch, should I find some Streets have become one-way or are closed down or ...
Bottom line, I think GPS is more usefull, but I wouldn't throw away maps just yet.
I also look things up on-line, then take notes. Mapping while driving is like texting while driving.
55 here and like your friend I'm bucking the curve because I love my GPS. So do my parents who are in their 80's now. They tell you where you are, how fast you're going, what the speed limit is, how far to your destination in time and distance, where your next turn is, sometimes what lane to be in for your turn, and even reroute you around heavy traffic. What's not to love. They aren't perfect but few things are. The built in NAV in my Tacoma works well for now, but map updates are pricey to the point where I'll probably turn it off and plug in a $100 Garmin with lifetime map updates once Toyota's are out of date.
I still like maps...
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 23, 2017, 07:18:19 AM
My car doesn't have a gps in it. I Always say I should buy one, but I never do.
When I need to go somewhere new, eithr my gf checks on her iPhone and acts as gps, or I look it up in advance on online maps and, if need be, make some scribbles.
I tend to do the online map thing anyways, it gives me a bird-eye's view of the place I need to go, making it easier to navigate in the final stretch, should I find some Streets have become one-way or are closed down or ...
Bottom line, I think GPS is more usefull, but I wouldn't throw away maps just yet.
I thinks maps (road maps) are obsolete at this point. There is still an interest in them, and for overall big picture contemplation, they are interesting, but no longer necessary. If you are just driving around on vacation, they would be good when the wife says, "Oh look. Virginia City, Montana is just 30 miles off the interstate. I've always wanted to go there."
When I first got started using GPS for driving, I had a program from Microsoft called Streets and Trips. I still use it at my work station, but it's too awkward for a car, as it requires a lap top and head phones because it's not loud enough to be heard over road noise. I own 3 of those small units that stick to your windshield, and they work fine, but my last car I had GPS installed. That gets more expensive than the little $100 units, and I can only justify it on the basis that it's cool to have it in dash. Well, it's less cluttered, and mostly hands free, because you can talk to it most of the time, but the dealer soaks you for an extra $500, which is outrageous, except that it's cool if you like the technology.
The smart phone thing makes sense, but I don't like taking my hands off the steering wheel. They are slightly less convenient than a system dedicated to driving.
I had a chart plotter and GPS on my boat that I sailed to Hawaii and Alaska. That is where GPS truly shines. You are not on a road, so your position is always dicey, but the GPS puts your position exactly where you are, and overlays a radar screen and highly accurate digital chart, so that floating ice bergs, and other boats are always clearly visible. Collision courses are easy to see long before they might be a danger. In tidal areas, even tidal currents that presented dangers to navigation showed up on the screen along with readouts for the velocity of the current at any given time of the month or day. High an low tide information was also available. For me, it was about as close to a miracle that I'd ever expect to be.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on February 23, 2017, 07:22:15 AM
55 here and like your friend I'm bucking the curve because I love my GPS. So do my parents who are in their 80's now. They tell you where you are, how fast you're going, what the speed limit is, how far to your destination in time and distance, where your next turn is, sometimes what lane to be in for your turn, and even reroute you around heavy traffic. What's not to love. They aren't perfect but few things are. The built in NAV in my Tacoma works well for now, but map updates are pricey to the point where I'll probably turn it off and plug in a $100 Garmin with lifetime map updates once Toyota's are out of date.
Mine is always on. Even if it's a known route, I'm always keeping track of my arrival time for things like catching a movie at a theater, and since I have to drive 40 miles to a theater, that feature helps if I want to stop at a store before the movie... or whatever I'm planning.
Quote from: SGOS on February 23, 2017, 07:55:52 AM
I thinks maps (road maps) are obsolete at this point. There is still an interest in them, and for overall big picture contemplation, they are interesting, but no longer necessary. If you are just driving around on vacation, they would be good when the wife says, "Oh look. Virginia City, Montana is just 30 miles off the interstate. I've always wanted to go there."
When I first got started using GPS for driving, I had a program from Microsoft called Streets and Trips. I still use it at my work station, but it's too awkward for a car, as it requires a lap top and head phones because it's not loud enough to be heard over road noise. I own 3 of those small units that stick to your windshield, and they work fine, but my last car I had GPS installed. That gets more expensive than the little $100 units, and I can only justify it on the basis that it's cool to have it in dash. Well, it's less cluttered, and mostly hands free, because you can talk to it most of the time, but the dealer soaks you for an extra $500, which is outrageous, except that it's cool if you like the technology.
The smart phone thing makes sense, but I don't like taking my hands off the steering wheel. They are slightly less convenient than a system dedicated to driving.
I had a chart plotter and GPS on my boat that I sailed to Hawaii and Alaska. That is where GPS truly shines. You are not on a road, so your position is always dicey, but the GPS puts your position exactly where you are, and overlays a radar screen and highly accurate digital chart, so that floating ice bergs, and other boats are always clearly visible. Collision courses are easy to see long before they might be a danger. In tidal areas, even tidal currents that presented dangers to navigation showed up on the screen along with readouts for the velocity of the current at any given time of the month or day. High an low tide information was also available. For me, it was about as close to a miracle that I'd ever expect to be.
GPS is useful where it is useful. Yeah "Duh". But I mean it is not needed everywhere.
Quote from: SGOS on February 23, 2017, 06:35:21 AM
He points out that the problem with the GPS is that it doesn't tell him where he's at. And that's kind of true, and I understand that this can be disconcerting. The GPS only shows you how to get where you want to go. It dispenses with where you are, and simply tells you where to turn and which way to go.
Hogwash. GPS at it very core does only one thing. It determines exactly where it is. That is the ONLY thing GPS does. All other information and features produced by a GPS unit are the result of a computer using that GPS derived position and applying calculations based on it.
But I understand that I'm missing the point you were trying to make which is that most consumer GPS units don't actually tell the user where they are in plain English. And to that I say, hogwash. Most if not all Garmin consumer units made today will tell the user exactly where they're at with a simple button push. It will simultaneously display this information as lat/long numbers, closest address and nearest intersection.
A few years ago my sister and her husband decided to haul their RV camper up from Florida and visit my wife and I here in the midwest. The night before they were to arrive, my sister called me to get directions to our house. The conversation didn't go well.
Her: We need directions to your house.
Me: Just punch our address into your GPS.
Her: We don't have a GPS, my husband doesn't believe in them.
Me: Does he believe in lost?
Her: Very funny.
Me: Not as funny as you two wandering aimlessly all day looking for our house.
Old farts? How dare you! :bashcomp:
My smart phone has GPS and it shows where I am. I can also scan ahead to see how far I am from the next turn. It reroutes me around traffic, and If i get lost i reroutes me. Even if I'm at a place and don't know the address I'm starting from I can just tell google to use my current location and it does the rest for me. I love it. Easy cheesy lemon squeezy. If you have a smart phone there is really no reason to get lost unless you get no signal. That's the only thing though.
It tells you how fast you are going and what lane you are in. it tells you an estimated arrival time. It also gives you a selection of routs to choose, the default is always the fastest but you can always change that. It also saves locations that you need to find constantly.
If you have a smart phone don't waste money on a shitty gps, just make sure you have plenty of battery a car charger and you'll be fine. THere are a number of free apps.
I remember the old Mapsquest days. Dark times. Miss a turn and you're SOL.
And before that, having to ask for directions. Apparently, I was one of the few people who used street names to navigate and intersections as coordinates. Everyone else used landmarks and I'd get shitty directions like "Just go out and take a right after you take a left three lights after you see the Arby's".
Which direction I was supposed to "go out" was left to my imagination and which exact turn I was supposed to take was entirely dependent on my ability to locate a restaurant while driving - a restaurant that may or may not still be there - and then get in the appropriate lane to turn left (or was it right?) before (or was it after?) I pass it. I loved paper maps in those days. At least they made some sense.
As others have pointed out, cellphone GPS is a lifesaver. One time, I had to use one to plot the route to a classroom to take a test on network routing. I found it to be pretty funny.
I wish I was a little older when the card catalogs were going out of style. I could have really used a garbage-picked one for all the compartments. So many drawers!!!
Quote from: Johan on February 23, 2017, 07:25:35 PM
Hogwash. GPS at it very core does only one thing. It determines exactly where it is.
Actually, this is basically it. All the foo fa, like visual maps, tidal information, time of sunrise, and points of interest, are put there so that knowing where you are has a purpose (what 99% of the technology actually does). I think what disconcerts my friend is that most of the time the screen view zooms in so that all you see is a short section of highway covering an area of less than 20 acres. Yes, there's an arrow there that tells you exactly where you are in that 20 acres, usually within inches, but it doesn't tell you where everything else is. It's limited to the next intersection or two. This is not helpful to my friend, who mistakenly feels he needs to know where he is in relation to Tallahassee and Minneapolis at all times.
What gets lost on him is the importance of knowing which way to turn at what intersection. Is it the next intersection, or the one after that? And really, this is actually where all of your driving attention needs to focus on at that moment. Fuck Minneapolis. If you follow the turns, you will end up there.
However, there's something else at play, at least in the case of my friend. It's not so much about the effectiveness of the technology, or the flaws, real or imagined, in the device. It is an aversion to learning something new (actually my friend claims to enjoy learning, and I actually think he does). Think of all the advancements in society that require people to adapt, sometimes with associated learning curves. You spend your whole life learning how to read maps. The Forest Service actually had training sessions on map reading. Map reading is a big deal. Anyone can look at a map, but to plot courses at sea, or measure distances between intersections, all requires to a modicum of time invested in learning.
Along comes a new machine, like a calculator. What??? I memorized multiplication tables, and learned long division for four years of my life, and you're now telling me that was a useless waste of time??? This is what's disconcerting; Confronting the knowledge that all of the effort you proudly expended to be the person you are today, tells you that the person you are today is now obsolete. Plus of course, you have to learn another fucking new thing.
That's why I drew attention to Old Farts in the thread title. A new born or a ten year old is not so heavily invested in the way they have learned to do things. Old farts often are, or so it seems, and as old farts, it behooves us all to try not to reinforce that image.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 24, 2017, 03:13:42 AM
I wish I was a little older when the card catalogs were going out of style. I could have really used a garbage-picked one for all the compartments. So many drawers!!!
I still get the feeling in a library that without a card catalog, something is terribly wrong about the place. My first reaction is, "Fuck, now I have to use their computer with a program that varies from one Library to the next, and I won't know what I'm doing."
What I forget is that I felt pretty much the same about the card catalog. I remember looking up a topic, and then with glazed eyes, wondering what all the numbers, first names last, and all the various annotations meant. Eventually, I would fumble my way around the book stacks, but always feeling like I didn't know what I was doing.
Quote from: SGOS on February 24, 2017, 06:25:50 AM
However, there's something else at play, at least in the case of my friend. It's not so much about the effectiveness of the technology, or the flaws, real or imagined, in the device. It is an aversion to learning something new (actually my friend claims to enjoy learning, and I actually think he does).
I just saw an accurate quote about an unrelated topic. In the 60's it wasn't about water fountains. GPS is fabulous technology and people will try to make all kinds of shitty excuses for why they resist it. But try as they might, I think everyone who resists the technology does so for the exact same reason. Which is more or less 'I don't really understand it and that makes me feel stupid so fuck it, I'm not even going to try.'
Quote from: Johan on February 24, 2017, 07:14:08 AM
I just saw an accurate quote about an unrelated topic. In the 60's it wasn't about water fountains. GPS is fabulous technology and people will try to make all kinds of shitty excuses for why they resist it. But try as they might, I think everyone who resists the technology does so for the exact same reason. Which is more or less 'I don't really understand it and that makes me feel stupid so fuck it, I'm not even going to try.'
That is why I don't have a smart phone. Don't trust technology smarter than I am ;-) Why I went with an older used car ... the new car's dash is like a smart phone.
Quote from: Johan on February 24, 2017, 07:14:08 AMI just saw an accurate quote about an unrelated topic. In the 60's it wasn't about water fountains. GPS is fabulous technology and people will try to make all kinds of shitty excuses for why they resist it. But try as they might, I think everyone who resists the technology does so for the exact same reason. Which is more or less 'I don't really understand it and that makes me feel stupid so fuck it, I'm not even going to try.'
Yeah. And these sorts of people are only hurting themselves by missing out on more capable technology because of an inability to learn or change how they do things. Looking stupid seems like a trivial problem when compared to missing out on the benefits of objectively better technology.
The GPS on my Samsung Galaxy tells me where I'm at and where I need to go. No problems.
For reference purposes I'm 66 and have navigated celestially when needed.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on February 24, 2017, 01:47:47 PM
For reference purposes I'm 66 and have navigated celestially when needed.
Did you use a sextant?
Quote from: SGOS on February 24, 2017, 02:13:28 PM
Did you use a sextant?
Depends on how distractingly sexy she was ;-)
GPS on my phone so far has gotten me to Ohio and back to SC, to New Orleans and back and Florida and back with few mistakes except once in West Virginia we were parked at some store that had a large mountain directly behind it and the GPS lady said, 'In 800 feet continue straight...'
We ignored that one to avoid getting buried under a mountain, other than that it was pretty good.
I drove to a small island and the GPS gave the directions to the old bridge that had just recently gotten phased out after the new bridge was completed. The end of the road was an immediate drop directly into the ocean marked only with some caution tape. I opted not to take that advice.
Ortherwise, no problems here.
I guess it's time for GPS malfunction stories.
Driving across country on a toll way, I encountered a newly built interchange combined with pay booths. Actually it was still under construction, but was operational with attendants in the booths. Two toll roads interchanged, and the signs were confusing. The GPS showed me off a road and in a field, but it was still talking and giving directions.
(http://3m7ajlsrzj92lfd1hu16hu7vc.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Twilight-Zone-660x350-1460088255.jpg)
Somehow I had entered a road system into the Twilight Zone. After 15 minutes of driving, I found myself approaching the same toll booths with the same toll taker on duty. I just paid the toll, and tried my hand again at finding my way, but 15 minutes later, I was going through the same toll station with the same attendant for the third time.
In despair, I asked the attendant for directions to get onto "Interstate Whatever." Apparently, I was not the only one who had been having the problem, because he reached down and pulled out a set of directions that specifically dealt with my problem. No map, but with steps 1-6 for getting to the right road.
But it didn't work, and 15 minutes later, I was at the same toll booth again. It's like 3:00 AM, with few drivers on the road, and I'm frustrated and embarrassed, so what I did was just take the next exit that led off into the woods in a westerly direction, which was more or less the direction I wanted to go, and drove for a half hour without the GPS. I actually turned it off until I figured I was far enough away from the new interchange under construction, and at a point where the GPS would just recalculate from a location that would not involve that interchange. And pretty soon, I was out of the Bermuda Triangle of Interstates, and on my way again.
Quote from: SGOS on February 24, 2017, 02:13:28 PM
Did you use a sextant?
I "used at a sextant" according to my instructor, but I got us where we were supposed to go.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on February 25, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I "used at a sextant" according to my instructor, but I got us where we were supposed to go.
You and two other guys, are probably the only ones who still know how to use a sextant. I rented a video on it once. The instructor started off talking about how simple and straight forward using a sextant was. He began by wildly picking a spot on the chart and arbitrarily declaring it his known location, and then told the viewers that we would now use the sextant and a few "simple" tables to determine how far we were from the arbitrary location. At this point I became irrevocably confused.
Why not just determine our location? And then you wouldn't have to bother figuring out how wrong your random location was. It wasn't that I didn't think I could do the math, but for such an "easy straight forward" system, it sure started off using an intuitively illogical method.
After doing a bunch of simple math, and referring to, I dunno, 14 different tables using numbers he had calculated from previous tables, he finally figured out how far he was from his hypothetical location, and said, "There! See how amazingly easy that was," and I just said, "Fuck this shit."
(http://c10.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_newsite_static_wfb_firing-line.jpg)
The instructor in the video was William F. Buckley Jr. of all people. Remember him? He was something like the father of modern conservatism back in the days of Richard Nixon, but most widely known for being a smug pretentious prick. He was no doubt a whiz at arithmetic, but I believe his main reason for making the video was not to help anyone learn anything, but just to present something in such an indecipherable way that people would assume he was a genius. At any rate, I decided teaching was definitely not his calling, and that he should stick with writing conservative propaganda.
Apparently you didn't watch the film I posted, Longitude. It explains how to reduce the arbitrariness of early navigation, and at the start of the movie, why being inaccurate was fatal to ships. This is why we have Greenwich mean time, and the Greenwich meridian. The sextant only tells you where you are relative to the equator (that an a compass). The compass introduces inaccuracy, because the magnetic pole is not the geographic pole, but at least you can easily determine if you are in the N or S hemisphere. Having an accurate timepiece, and synchronizing your timepiece with Greenwich, when you leave Greenwich .. is how you determine longitude.
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 09:26:09 AM
Apparently you didn't watch the film I posted, Longitude. It explains how to reduce the arbitrariness of early navigation, and at the start of the movie, why being inaccurate was fatal to ships. This is why we have Greenwich mean time, and the Greenwich meridian. The sextant only tells you where you are relative to the equator (that an a compass). The compass introduces inaccuracy, because the magnetic pole is not the geographic pole, but at least you can easily determine if you are in the N or S hemisphere. Having an accurate timepiece, and synchronizing your timepiece with Greenwich, when you leave Greenwich .. is how you determine longitude.
I remember you posting that somewhere, and I didn't watch it because I'm pretty sure I'd seen it before, although I can't say I remember much about the calculations. If it's the same movie, it didn't relate much to anything William Buckley was talking about. However, I remember thinking the movie made much more sense than Buckley, as it made it pretty easy to understand the basic concepts of celestial navigation. Buckley only attempted to explain calculations, rather than the concept behind the process, and I had watched Buckley first.
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2017, 01:20:51 AM
I guess it's time for GPS malfunction stories.
Driving across country on a toll way, I encountered a newly built interchange combined with pay booths. Actually it was still under construction, but was operational with attendants in the booths. Two toll roads interchanged, and the signs were confusing. The GPS showed me off a road and in a field, but it was still talking and giving directions.
(http://3m7ajlsrzj92lfd1hu16hu7vc.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Twilight-Zone-660x350-1460088255.jpg)
Somehow I had entered a road system into the Twilight Zone. After 15 minutes of driving, I found myself approaching the same toll booths with the same toll taker on duty. I just paid the toll, and tried my hand again at finding my way, but 15 minutes later, I was going through the same toll station with the same attendant for the third time.
In despair, I asked the attendant for directions to get onto "Interstate Whatever." Apparently, I was not the only one who had been having the problem, because he reached down and pulled out a set of directions that specifically dealt with my problem. No map, but with steps 1-6 for getting to the right road.
But it didn't work, and 15 minutes later, I was at the same toll booth again. It's like 3:00 AM, with few drivers on the road, and I'm frustrated and embarrassed, so what I did was just take the next exit that led off into the woods in a westerly direction, which was more or less the direction I wanted to go, and drove for a half hour without the GPS. I actually turned it off until I figured I was far enough away from the new interchange under construction, and at a point where the GPS would just recalculate from a location that would not involve that interchange. And pretty soon, I was out of the Bermuda Triangle of Interstates, and on my way again.
Lets be fair here. A paper map would have yielded the same result in that situation if not worse unless it had been updated and released in the previous month.
Quote from: Johan on February 25, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Lets be fair here. A paper map would have yielded the same result in that situation if not worse unless it had been updated and released in the previous month.
But people trust Seri more than their own spouse ;-) Maps not so much.
Quote from: Johan on February 25, 2017, 01:16:39 PMLets be fair here. A paper map would have yielded the same result in that situation if not worse unless it had been updated and released in the previous month.
Yep. Same with my story.
The moral of the story isn't that some other technology is superior or that GPS shouldn't be trusted at all, it's that GPS is an imperfect technology that shouldn't be blindly obeyed. People should be aware of their surroundings in addition to using a GPS. The two should work in tandem - one can't fully replace the other.
At least not until the technology is so advanced that people can literally fall asleep at the wheel and the car drives itself as well (if not better) than a human driver.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 25, 2017, 01:39:30 PM
At least not until the technology is so advanced that people can literally fall asleep at the wheel and the car drives itself as well (if not better) than a human driver.
I eagerly await that day. I work in trucking and frankly, I look forward to the day when truck drivers no longer have to actually drive the trucks.
Quote from: Johan on February 25, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Lets be fair here. A paper map would have yielded the same result in that situation if not worse unless it had been updated and released in the previous month.
There would not have been updated maps, and if they had them, they would have been only partially functional. I would guess that 1/4 of the on/off ramps in the exchange were barricaded and unusable, although they looked like they were new construction. Had I actually been able to find my way, the place would have still seemed surreal, like something out of a dystopian future movie.
Quote from: Johan on February 25, 2017, 02:00:11 PM
I eagerly await that day. I work in trucking and frankly, I look forward to the day when truck drivers no longer have to actually drive the trucks.
That will only happen because there is no more gas, and truckers have to find other jobs. Without trucks, we all have to cluster around railway sidings, like we did before 1920.
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2017, 02:26:45 PM
There would not have been updated maps, and if they had them, they would have been only partially functional. I would guess that 1/4 of the on/off ramps in the exchange were barricaded and unusable, although they looked like they were new construction. Had I actually been able to find my way, the place would have still seemed surreal, like something out of a dystopian future movie.
Yes, sometimes I think highway engineers are sadists. We have exchange ramps in Tulsa, where you can exit to the right into slower traffic (the right way of course), or to the left into faster traffic (favored by SJWs) .. if you are in the middle lane, you are screwed (like in politics).
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 25, 2017, 01:39:30 PM
Yep. Same with my story.
The moral of the story isn't that some other technology is superior or that GPS shouldn't be trusted at all, it's that GPS is an imperfect technology that shouldn't be blindly obeyed. People should be aware of their surroundings in addition to using a GPS. The two should work in tandem - one can't fully replace the other.
At least not until the technology is so advanced that people can literally fall asleep at the wheel and the car drives itself as well (if not better) than a human driver.
Unfortunately, falling asleep at the wheel isn't good for train or tram drivers yet ;-( And they are on a fixed track.
Funny GPS story. I used it to find some lots I was considering building a house on. It got me off on a side road to nowhere. At the end of it was a guy with a gun. I backed up REAL slow...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 11:17:23 AM
Funny GPS story. I used it to find some lots I was considering building a house on. It got me off on a side road to nowhere. At the end of it was a guy with a gun. I backed up REAL slow...
Good thing you didn't hear banjo music, or you might have made a nice little wife for Jethro ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
Good thing you didn't hear banjo music, or you might have made a nice little wife for Jethro ;-)
Well I DID have a MUCH bigger car... Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. To coin a phrase... An SUV has value too.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 12:29:29 PM
Well I DID have a MUCH bigger car... Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. To coin a phrase... An SUV has value too.
Good thing the gentleman didn't have the General Lee, otherwise the Dukes of Hazard would have caught up to you ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:42:23 PM
Good thing the gentleman didn't have the General Lee, otherwise the Dukes of Hazard would have caught up to you ;-)
Well, as I said, I backed away... No need to cause a fight where one isn't needed.
I'm "old". I f'ing HATE GPS and GPSers! I get in a car with a GPSer and half the time we end up way the F out of town, hol' up in some cow pie pastures and such. Whatever happened to BRAINS, as in, the human BRAIN? Do we hate the human brain that much now in this world of "hi tech progress"? It appears so to me. I like these thing they call "MAPS", on PAPER, old school, analog, scribed by these things called "cartographers", who have human BRAINS and skill. They are pieces of artwork, many of them, and I like art.
I take this "map" in my human hands, and study the route upon which I will sojourn. I use my human BRAIN to memorize said route. Then I go. AND, if I happen to briefly forget my way, I stop, and review the MAP. I like life this way, I like maps, I like brains, but I also HATE ROBOTS and strive to kill them in the 1st degree whenever possible--i premeditate as such. Don't even get me started on robots. Best way to murder a robot is to walk up and kindly offer it a glass of water. ZING and ZAP!
Water is the best thing on the planet next to air(sunshine is a close 3rd), but I am biased. It's WAY better than GPS(which I hate, did I mention that?).
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 09:45:10 AM
I'm "old". I f'ing HATE GPS and GPSers! I get in a car with a GPSer and half the time we end up way the F out of town, hol' up in some cow pie pastures and such. Whatever happened to BRAINS, as in, the human BRAIN. Do we hate the human grain that much now in this world of "hi tech progress"? It appears so to me. I like these thing they call "MAPS", on PAPER, old school, analog, scribed by these things called "cartographers", who have human BRAINS and skill. They are pieces of artwork, many of them, and I like art.
I take this "map" in my human hands, and study the route upon which I will sojourn. I use my human BRAIN to memorize said route. Then I go. AND, if I happen to briefly forget my way, I stop, and review the MAP. I like life this way, I like maps, I like brains, but I also HATE ROBOTS and strive to kill them whenever possible--i premeditate as such. Don't even get me started on robots. Best way to murder a robot is to walk up and kindly offer it a glass of water. ZING and ZAP!
Water is the best thing on the planet next to air(sunshine is a close 3rd), but I am biased. It's WAY better than GPS(which I hate, did I mention that?).
I work by maps myself. I have a GPS but I seldom use it. It confuses my sense of direction.
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 09:45:10 AM
I'm "old". I f'ing HATE GPS and GPSers! I get in a car with a GPSer and half the time we end up way the F out of town, hol' up in some cow pie pastures and such. Whatever happened to BRAINS, as in, the human BRAIN? Do we hate the human brain that much now in this world of "hi tech progress"? It appears so to me. I like these thing they call "MAPS", on PAPER, old school, analog, scribed by these things called "cartographers", who have human BRAINS and skill. They are pieces of artwork, many of them, and I like art.
I take this "map" in my human hands, and study the route upon which I will sojourn. I use my human BRAIN to memorize said route. Then I go. AND, if I happen to briefly forget my way, I stop, and review the MAP. I like life this way, I like maps, I like brains, but I also HATE ROBOTS and strive to kill them whenever possible--i premeditate as such. Don't even get me started on robots. Best way to murder a robot is to walk up and kindly offer it a glass of water. ZING and ZAP!
Water is the best thing on the planet next to air(sunshine is a close 3rd), but I am biased. It's WAY better than GPS(which I hate, did I mention that?).
Hmmm. How provincial!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 09:47:28 AM
I work by maps myself. I have a GPS but I seldom use it. It confuses my sense of direction.
A buddy of mine, about 10 years ago, couldn't help but notice, that within a very short span of time, various vehicles systematically began appearing out of nowhere onto his front lawn. That's another reason why I HATE GPS.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 09:47:28 AM
I work by maps myself. I have a GPS but I seldom use it. It confuses my sense of direction.
Yes, they confuse my sense of direction too. I also find it disconcerting. But that's a throwback to the pre GPS era, when you needed a sense of direction.
One thing that helps me if I start feeling disconcerted because I don't know which direction I'm headed, is switch the GPS to the "North Up" orientation. When I do that I can see which direction I'm going, followed shortly by the realization of, "Why the fuck did I think I needed to know my direction?" And then I switch back to the "Map Forward" orientation.
Quote from: SGOS on March 14, 2017, 09:59:04 AM
Yes, they confuse my sense of direction too. I also find it disconcerting. But that's a throwback to the pre GPS era, when you needed a sense of direction.
One thing that helps me if I start feeling disconcerted because I don't know which direction I'm headed, is switch the GPS to the "North Up" orientation. When I do that I can see which direction I'm going, followed shortly by the realization of, "Why the fuck did I think I needed to know my direction?" And then I switch back to the "Map Forward" orientation.
LOL! I'm one of those people who know what direction I am going even in the subway. No moss on trees, maybe magnetite in my head?
Quote from: SGOS on March 14, 2017, 09:59:04 AM
Yes, they confuse my sense of direction too. I also find it disconcerting. But that's a throwback to the pre GPS era, when you needed a sense of direction.
One thing that helps me if I start feeling disconcerted because I don't know which direction I'm headed, is switch the GPS to the "North Up" orientation. When I do that I can see which direction I'm going, followed shortly by the realization of, "Why the fuck did I think I needed to know my direction?" And then I switch back to the "Map Forward" orientation.
Some people can't even drive anymore w/o that fing GPS on yappin at them every 3 seconds. Maybe they are lonely, so I try and come up with some jokes. They make me very nervous as they are usually nervous. I usually make them shut it off as per safety concerns and while we are sitting in the cow pasture that they didn't happen to notice nor rebel against that which the GPS sent us to.
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 10:04:25 AM
Some people can't even drive anymore w/o that fing GPS on yappin at them every 3 seconds. Maybe they are lonely, so I try and come up with some jokes. They make me very nervous as they are usually nervous. I usually make them shut it off as per safety concerns and while we are sitting in the cow pasture that they didn't happen to notice nor rebel against that which the GPS sent us to.
Actually, I think the best job as a passenger is to be the navigator. I'll bet you are good at that like I am.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:09:43 AM
Actually, I think the best job as a passenger is to be the navigator. I'll bet you are good at that like I am.
Thats what the fing GPS is supposed to do! I gotta get paid if I am doing its jawb!
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 10:13:53 AM
Thats what the fing GPS is supposed to do! I gotta get paid if I am doing its jawb!
Well, I get bored as a passenger. I want SOMETHING to do.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:16:30 AM
Well, I get bored as a passenger. I want SOMETHING to do.
Plant a garden! Count seeds!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 12:04:47 PM
In a CAR?!
How else you going to feed the starving masses ever present under capitalism, when you get compassion and become a socialist?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/64/0e/06/640e0685e48507714daebd38275c74de.jpg)
Chop some wood while you are at it too:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/9b/93/2c/9b932c2feb1ed7db8d11330f009e33d5.jpg)
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:03:18 AM
LOL! I'm one of those people who know what direction I am going even in the subway. No moss on trees, maybe magnetite in my head?
Not magnetite, you non-pigeon ... secret decoder ring ;-)
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 10:04:25 AM
Some people can't even drive anymore w/o that fing GPS on yappin at them every 3 seconds. Maybe they are lonely, so I try and come up with some jokes. They make me very nervous as they are usually nervous. I usually make them shut it off as per safety concerns and while we are sitting in the cow pasture that they didn't happen to notice nor rebel against that which the GPS sent us to.
This is why autonomous vehicles, particularly semis operating as a phalanx, are going to be so swell.
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
This is why autonomous vehicles, particularly semis operating as a phalanx, are going to be so swell.
Keep dreamin dreamer. People that dont "drive truck" say this kind of rubbish.
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 01:02:38 PM
Keep dreamin dreamer. People that dont "drive truck" say this kind of rubbish.
Like fracking ... they will lose money on each unit produced, but make it up with government supported creative finance ... see Volt.
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2017, 01:03:40 PM
Like fracking ... they will lose money on each unit produced, but make it up with government supported creative finance ... see Volt.
Yeah, I had this techy robot nerd swear on 2 Bibles 10 years ago that "robot carpenters" were right around the corner. Still looking. Techy nerds are generally clueless about the real material world outside their labs. That robot dog they spent millions on at MIT is a useless pc of junk. "oh look, it can barely get over some cinder blocks!":
(http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/BigDog_ClimbRubble.png)
Sell it as scrap metal.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 10:03:18 AM
LOL! I'm one of those people who know what direction I am going even in the subway. No moss on trees, maybe magnetite in my head?
Et tu? When I was wandering around the jungle people used to say "Go with him, he comes back."
Quote from: etienne on March 14, 2017, 10:04:25 AM
Some people can't even drive anymore w/o that fing GPS on yappin at them every 3 seconds. Maybe they are lonely, so I try and come up with some jokes. They make me very nervous as they are usually nervous. I usually make them shut it off as per safety concerns and while we are sitting in the cow pasture that they didn't happen to notice nor rebel against that which the GPS sent us to.
I drive with the sound off over half the time. At first, I thought the woman's voice was cool, but she's a poor conversationalist. She just keeps repeating the same phrases over and over, and now she drives me nuts. When I actually need her assistance, I turn the sound on.
Quote from: SGOS on March 14, 2017, 07:04:03 PM
I drive with the sound off over half the time. At first, I thought the woman's voice was cool, but she's a poor conversationalist. She just keeps repeating the same phrases over and over, and now she drives me nuts. When I actually need her assistance, I turn the sound on.
And that dovetails into, what do they call "her", Siri? Or, "Contana"? Haha. And then you have "Echo" because apparently its too difficult for people to TYPE "Google", or, heaven forbid, look in a book. And now this little pink robot called "Pepper" who can "wow" you by playing "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" on a plastic violin. Are people this lonely? I think so, yes.
I think its all stupid, but I have real things I love to do.
A lot of people here have robot envy ... and AI jealousy. Wonder why?