As far as I know, there is only one list in the entire world that is ordered by the Invisible Hand... Favorite Books (http://classtopia.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_11.html). The order of this list is determined by the aggregated valuations of the Classtopians, their teacher and myself.
When the Classtopians buy a donated item, they can choose which of their departments they give their money to. If they give their money to the Book Dept (http://classtopia.blogspot.com/2017/02/book-department.html), they can use it to communicate their valuations of their favorite books. The Book Dept keeps track of everybody's book valuations on a Google sheet. This last weekend I taught their teacher how to embed the Google sheet in a page on their new blog.
For those of you who aren't familiar with the idea of the Invisible Hand...
QuoteIt is thus that the private interests and passions of individuals naturally dispose them to turn their stocks towards the employments which in ordinary cases are most advantageous to the society. But if from this natural preference they should turn too much of it towards those employments, the fall of profit in them and the rise of it in all others immediately dispose them to alter this faulty distribution. Without any intervention of law, therefore, the private interests and passions of men naturally lead them to divide and distribute the stock of every society among all the different employments carried on in it as nearly as possible in the proportion which is most agreeable to the interest of the whole society. â€" Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations (http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN17.html#firstpage-bar)
In a really small nutshell… the Invisible Hand is the decentralized process by which money is used to simultaneously identify and encourage beneficial behavior.
Adam Smith published his book when America was founded. Yet, as far as I know, this is the first time that a list has ever been ordered by the Invisible Hand. Which leads me to believe that very few people truly understand the Invisible Hand.
I figure that, with Donald Trump in the White House, now is an especially a good time to discuss the Invisible Hand. With Kennedy, the result of the Visible Hand was a man on the moon. But with other leaders the result of the Visible Hand was obviously and severely detrimental.
How many people should determine the order of things... and how should they determine it?
Here on this forum the order of the threads is chronological. It definitely makes sense to be able to see which threads have the most recent replies. But... can you imagine what the order of the threads would be like if it was determined by the Invisible Hand?
Personally, I've never donated any money to this forum. From my perspective, the free-rider problem is a real problem. But what if this forum implemented Classtopia's idea? Then, if I made a donation to this forum... I could use it to communicate my valuation of my favorite threads. Everybody's thread valuations could be kept track of in a Google sheet that would be embedded in a webpage that we would all have access to. The threads here in the forum would still be chronologically ordered... but we'd also be able to see the threads ordered by the Invisible Hand.
It would be the epitome of killing two birds with one stone. We'd all be able to easily determine, and see, the most valuable threads... and this forum would receive more donations.
Would it be worth it for the owner to update the list? Well... if the donations were large and frequent enough... then it would probably be worth it. Of course only he can know the minimum donation that it would be worth it for him to update the list. If there was enough demand though it would definitely make sense to automate the process.
The Bible gets a few things really right. For example, don't hide your light under a bushel. This forum definitely has a lot of buried treasure. However, since values are subjective, this forum's treasure can only identified and unearthed by the Invisible Hand.
The Invisible Hand only works, when crafted by wise law and regulation. It doesn't happen spontaneously, any more than the Encyclopedia Britannica happened because of a vast number of typing chimps ... but wait, it did ;-) Ever read about the Oxford English Dictionary? Crazy people.
Quote from: Xerographica on February 14, 2017, 12:23:52 AM
For those of you who aren't familiar with the idea of the Invisible Hand...
In a really small nutshell… the Invisible Hand is the decentralized process by which money is used to simultaneously identify and encourage beneficial behavior.
Adam Smith published his book when America was founded. Yet, as far as I know, this is the first time that a list has ever been ordered by the Invisible Hand. Which leads me to believe that very few people truly understand the Invisible Hand.
...
The Bible gets a few things really right. For example, don't hide your light under a bushel. This forum definitely has a lot of buried treasure. However, since values are subjective, this forum's treasure can only identified and unearthed by the Invisible Hand.
Have you considered the possibility that the Invisible Hand of your ideology is invisible because it doesn't exist?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2017, 01:19:20 AM
Have you considered the possibility that the Invisible Hand of your ideology is invisible because it doesn't exist?
The Invisible Hand determined the order of the books. So how could it not exist?
Xero thinks his posts and his alone are worthy of top billing. All others are worthless and should be deleted.. Am I getting warm here Zero?
Quote from: Xerographica on February 15, 2017, 03:39:30 AM
The Invisible Hand determined the order of the books. So how could it not exist?
Not true. My library is a complete mess!
Quote from: Xerographica on February 15, 2017, 03:39:30 AM
The Invisible Hand determined the order of the books. So how could it not exist?
What books?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 15, 2017, 04:47:51 AM
Xero thinks his posts and his alone are worthy of top billing. All others are worthless and should be deleted.. Am I getting warm here Zero?
You're frozen, given that I said that values are subjective.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2017, 06:57:53 AM
What books?
These books (http://classtopia.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_11.html).
Quote from: Xerographica on February 15, 2017, 11:56:22 AM
These books (http://classtopia.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_11.html).
A Wrinkle In Time ... needs ironing ;-)
A Wrinkle In Time was the first book I really loved. I think I was maybe 7 y.o. when I read it.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 16, 2017, 04:58:34 PM
A Wrinkle In Time was the first book I really loved. I think I was maybe 7 y.o. when I read it.
But did you borrow your mother's iron? ;-)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YXKUWvR5JLc/maxresdefault.jpg)
Positively chilling .. you blubber eating Eskimo! ;-)
Quote from: Xerographica on February 15, 2017, 11:56:22 AM
These books (http://classtopia.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_11.html).
How do those books support your theistic ideas?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 17, 2017, 02:56:01 AM
How do those books support your theistic ideas?
The books aren't alphabetically ordered... they are ordered by the students' valuations of them. So... the books are ordered by the Invisible Hand.
Let's say that the teacher, and the teacher alone, determined the order of the books. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Visible Hand.
Let's say that the students could determine the order of the books by voting for them. Kinda like Reddit. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Democratic Hand.
Let's say that the students voted for one student to determine the order of the books. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Republican Hand.
But in Classtopia... the students use their pennies to determine the order of the books. This is an example of the books being ordered by the Invisible Hand. As far as I know, it's the only list in the world that's ordered by the Invisible Hand.
Quote from: Xerographica on February 17, 2017, 05:42:42 PM
The books aren't alphabetically ordered... they are ordered by the students' valuations of them. So... the books are ordered by the Invisible Hand.
Let's say that the teacher, and the teacher alone, determined the order of the books. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Visible Hand.
Let's say that the students could determine the order of the books by voting for them. Kinda like Reddit. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Democratic Hand.
Let's say that the students voted for one student to determine the order of the books. This would be an example of the books being ordered by the Republican Hand.
But in Classtopia... the students use their pennies to determine the order of the books. This is an example of the books being ordered by the Invisible Hand. As far as I know, it's the only list in the world that's ordered by the Invisible Hand.
I asked how "those books support your theistic ideas", not how they were ordered.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2017, 03:10:43 AM
I asked how "those books support your theistic ideas", not how they were ordered.
I get his point, he is quoting epiphenomenalism .. but badly. His example has Man in the Loop ... so not true spontaneous creation.
So the Invisible Hand is a real book? Obviously books written that long ago wouldn't be known by very many people. OP explanation of invisible hand is non-existent. I guess I gotta put another book on my shopping list.
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2017, 07:09:13 AM
I get his point, he is quoting epiphenomenalism .. but badly. His example has Man in the Loop ... so not true spontaneous creation.
No, I questioned your claim, which you have not answered.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 05:57:38 AM
No, I questioned your claim, which you have not answered.
This one ...
"The Invisible Hand only works, when crafted by wise law and regulation. It doesn't happen spontaneously, any more than the Encyclopedia Britannica happened because of a vast number of typing chimps ... but wait, it did ;-) Ever read about the Oxford English Dictionary? Crazy people."
But the OP wasn't about that, he had something entirely different in mind. I think you are Dr Strangelove ... of the Left. You keep trying to Zeig Heil when you shouldn't.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:37:14 AM
This one ...
"The Invisible Hand only works, when crafted by wise law and regulation. It doesn't happen spontaneously, any more than the Encyclopedia Britannica happened because of a vast number of typing chimps ... but wait, it did ;-) Ever read about the Oxford English Dictionary? Crazy people."
But the OP wasn't about that, he had something entirely different in mind. I think you are Dr Strangelove ... of the Left. You keep trying to Zeig Heil when you shouldn't.
You are using "the invisible hand" of economics for a political purpose which does not work (Introduction To Political Science at any University) and even THEN, it has been dismissed in economics as well.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 09:13:45 AM
You are using "the invisible hand" of economics for a political purpose which does not work (Introduction To Political Science at any University) and even THEN, it has been dismissed in economics as well.
I wish you were correct ... but economics was and remains a pseudoscience, like astrology. And most economists use a fancy mathematical version of Hidden Hand. Like Adam Smith, they are all shills for plutocrats.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 09:15:34 AM
I wish you were correct ... but economics was and remains a pseudoscience, like astrology. And most economists use a fancy mathematical version of Hidden Hand. Like Adam Smith, they are all shills for plutocrats.
I'll point out I denied the invisible hand and suggested that economics is a soft science at best.