(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN--HgFWoAARl6f.jpg)
QuoteLess than 2 weeks into Donald Trump's tenure as President, 40% of voters already want to impeach him. That's up from 35% of voters who wanted to impeach him a week ago. Only 48% of voters say that they would be opposed to Trump's impeachment.
Other key findings:
* 52% say they'd rather Obama was President, to only 43% who are glad Trump is
* 47% supported Trump's immigration order, 49% are opposed
* 52% of voters think that the order was intended to be a Muslim ban, 41% don't think that was the intent
* 39% of voters think it was well executed, 55% believe it was poorly executed
* the idea of a Muslim ban is extremely unpopular with the American people - only 26% are in favor of it, to 65% who are against it
* 19% of voters see Bannon favorably, to 40% have a negative opinion of him
* 40% of voters support building the wall if American taxpayers have to front the cost for it, 54% are opposed
* 46% of voters now say they support Obamacare, 41% are opposed
* Paul Ryan has a 35/43 approval/disapproval rating, Mitch McConnell's is 17/55, Democrats lead the generic Congressional ballot 45/42.
Source: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_2217.pdf
The American People don't like fascism. Hell, our grandparents fought the fascists in WWII.
Many Tmurp voters are now feeling buyer's remorse. He's drunk with power and is creating havoc. The more he tightens his grip, the more people will slip through his fingers.
The more I think about it the more I think the 'American people' are too stupid to be bothered to vote.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 03, 2017, 12:12:26 PM
The more I think about it the more I think the 'American people' are too stupid to be bothered to vote.
Well, they may finally be waking up, now that it's too fucking late!
Quote from: Atheon on February 03, 2017, 11:53:42 AM
The American People don't like fascism. Hell, our grandparents fought the fascists in WWII.
Many Tmurp voters are now feeling buyer's remorse. He's drunk with power and is creating havoc. The more he tightens his grip, the more people will slip through his fingers.
Americans in WW II .. fascists fighting fascists. Don't let your parents or grandparents BS you!
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 03, 2017, 01:16:55 PM
Well, they may finally be waking up, now that it's too fucking late!
So, more votes for Sarah Palin? Optimists are so ... funny ;-)
Welcome to year 1 of American Fascism. It always surprises people when it happens to THEM! History is mostly authoritarian, and no one ever sees it coming. You think we are immune? Ask the Europeans...
The good news is that it is much harder for it to happen here. The bad news is that it CAN happen anywhere.
When people choose isolationist safety and security over freedom, authoritarianism is not far behind.
Update: (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_21017.pdf)
Even more people favor impeaching Trump. It's up to 46% from the 40% earlier. Mr. Winning is looking more and more like a gigantic Loser.
Also, not only would people prefer Obama to Trump, they'd prefer Clinton to Trump (49/45). Funny how things change in 3 months.
* 53% trust the nation's judges more than Trump to make the right decisions for the US
* A plurality of voters dislike DeVos, Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, and Sean Spicer.
* A plurality of voters support Obamacare. 65% would like to keep it and just fix parts that need fixing.
* Voters say the New York Times has more credibility than Trump. Hell, they even say that SNL has more credibility than Trump.
* Dems now lead on a generic ballot with 49/41
Trump voters are looking increasingly idiotic and disconnected with reality:
* 51% of Trump voters say the Bowling Green Massacre (a fictional massacre) shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed.
* 51% of Trump voters think that Trump should be able to overturn judicial decisions that he disagrees with. Apparently, they have yet to learn the difference between a President and a King. Or as PPP dryly remarks, "Trump voters have evidently had enough of the Constitution and those pesky checks and balances"
* Only 47% of Trump voters know that Fredrick Douglas is dead. He died over a century ago, just fyi.
* 46% of Trump voters think there should be a White History Month compared to just 36% who oppose that idea. No word yet if they'd settle for Aryan master race week instead.
Choosing a cabinet, that is ultimately approved by the Senate, is not an impeachable offense. In fact police state and militarism aren't impeachable offenses. The government decides what is "high crime and misdemeanor" ... and the government is criminal ... so how do you think that will work out? This doesn't work out so well for governors of Illinois (4 of the last 7 have gone to jail). Say what you can against Illinois, but at least they jail dysfunctional leaders. The Federal government has never done that ... though it got close with Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, on purely moral or political grounds .. but not on legal grounds.
One can say, that GB is more functional than the US ... because Parliament can have a vote of no-confidence. That doesn't happen in the US, either legally or ideologically. Congress itself has only a 10% approval rating.
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2017, 07:30:36 PMChoosing a cabinet, that is ultimately approved by the Senate, is not an impeachable offense.
I agree. Apparently, that's one of the many ways Americans express disapproval. A vote of no confidence would be better, though it's strange to go from President Elect to President No Confidence in less than a month. But then again, our electoral vote system is also strange. I suppose we live in strange times.
Color me unsurprised.
I mean that idiotic wall he promised would be 12-15 billion is now 21.6 and will take 3.5 years to complete (bear in mind the inevitable cost and schedule overrun will make this a great deal more expensive and time consuming) is just one of the dozens of gallingly idiotic things he has somehow managed to cram into 3 weeks.
I mean... did anyone see what he did the other day, he nodded along to the Japanese PM without his earpiece... as if he was under the delusion he understood Japanese or something even more insane, he was trying to convince everyone that he speaks fluent Japanese.
Every day with this now. It's an unprecedented (or unpresedented, as Trump would say) display of imbecility.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on February 13, 2017, 11:17:53 PM
Every day with this now. It's an unprecedented (or unpresedented, as Trump would say) display of imbecility.
Been sayin that since election day and got chewed out by a few Trump supporters. Although it should be becoming obvious to everyone, but his dumbest supporters. So how does President Pence sound? not a good alternative.
Hydra your factoids dont mean a damm thing. Trump won he's right. The 49% that voted against him don't matter. The people voted for him so he doesnt have to listen to the side that lost.... ok I'm chokin on sarcasm already. The dude is too dense for any of your factoids to sink in. And the dude is also a little bit arrogant about winning...
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on February 13, 2017, 11:17:53 PM
Color me unsurprised.
I mean that idiotic wall he promised would be 12-15 billion is now 21.6 and will take 3.5 years to complete (bear in mind the inevitable cost and schedule overrun will make this a great deal more expensive and time consuming) is just one of the dozens of gallingly idiotic things he has somehow managed to cram into 3 weeks.
I mean... did anyone see what he did the other day, he nodded along to the Japanese PM without his earpiece... as if he was under the delusion he understood Japanese or something even more insane, he was trying to convince everyone that he speaks fluent Japanese.
Every day with this now. It's an unprecedented (or unpresedented, as Trump would say) display of imbecility.
Even I know what "ah so" means. At least, unlike George Sr ... he didn't vomit on him ;-) George W vomited when the out of touch guy was told "that is raw fish"!
His approval numbers actually strike me as very good. 43% favoring Trump over Obama is both surprising high, while not hard to understand on deeper reflection. America has been whipping itself into a frenzied hysteria of frustration and hatred for the last 30 years. Imagine yourself in the 20 something generation today. You would have never experienced a government during your brief life that on a good day could actually reach an agreement over an issue. You would assume that what you have been led to believe is the perfect form of government is something that is normal and as it should be.
You would accept that the hatred spewed on talk radio is justified and necessary. Many would believe that the victory of an ideology could be achieved only by putting a personification of the ideals of Rush Limbaugh in charge. If he happened to be an asshole, so much the better for the country. You would understand that discussion and communication does not work, and that only authoritarian force could extract the proper behavior out of a weak majority opposition, and this would demonstrate to your hated enemies, both foreign and domestic, who the boss of the place is. And it would be satisfying to know in your heart that's what they deserve.
Does anyone here knows what fascism really is?
Hint: Benito Mussolini.
>Actually believing that the US is now a fascist state.
(http://rs118.pbsrc.com/albums/o92/quipfan/kids-clint-eastwood-grumpy-old-man-gran-torino_zpsxuilmxlz.gif~c200)
Some pepople never have to think. All the thinking is done for them.
Religious or secular.
The joy of indoctrination.
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2017, 08:52:46 AM
Does anyone here knows what fascism really is?
Hint: Benito Mussolini.
" (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice."
Not too far off, actually...
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 13, 2017, 05:49:56 PM
Update: (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_21017.pdf)
Mr. Winning is looking more and more like a gigantic Loser.
This is my own little pet hypothesis. Trump does not give a rats ass about this country, except in the ways he can add money to his own coffers. He has already said many, many times that if you get on his bad side he stoops to revenge--and his revenge is 10 times what he thinks the transgression was. On the flip side he rewards those who have aided him quite richly; that is why his cabinet will be totally fucked up--he doesn't care; the cabinet is simply a way to pay off those that are his allies. His one overriding goal is to amass as much money for himself and then his friends as he can. If it causes huge problems for the country as a whole does not enter into the equation. Fleece this country--his one and only goal for his time as president.
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2017, 08:52:46 AM
Does anyone here knows what fascism really is?
Hint: Benito Mussolini.
But ... but ... that was only with Italians, and only 1920 - 1945. It can't happen here ... wrong date, and we aren't Italian. Hitler simply upstaged what original White Hope of the Catholic Church.
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 14, 2017, 12:46:53 PMOn the flip side he rewards those who have aided him quite richly; that is why his cabinet will be totally fucked up--he doesn't care; the cabinet is simply a way to pay off those that are his allies.
A plausible idea, but it doesn't explain why this cabinet has ideological leanings so far to the right and consistently at odds with the roles they've been assigned - for example, Rick Perry calling to eliminate the Department of Energy then becoming nominated to be head of the Department of Energy. You'd think a cabinet chosen purely for loyalty would occasionally have an agreeable appointee. Even drawing names out of a hat would be better than this.
Quote from: SGOS on February 14, 2017, 06:49:12 AM
His approval numbers actually strike me as very good. 43% favoring Trump over Obama is both surprising high, while not hard to understand on deeper reflection. America has been whipping itself into a frenzied hysteria of frustration and hatred for the last 30 years. Imagine yourself in the 20 something generation today. You would have never experienced a government during your brief life that on a good day could actually reach an agreement over an issue. You would assume that what you have been led to believe is the perfect form of government is something that is normal and as it should be.
You would accept that the hatred spewed on talk radio is justified and necessary. Many would believe that the victory of an ideology could be achieved only by putting a personification of the ideals of Rush Limbaugh in charge. If he happened to be an asshole, so much the better for the country. You would understand that discussion and communication does not work, and that only authoritarian force could extract the proper behavior out of a weak majority opposition, and this would demonstrate to your hated enemies, both foreign and domestic, who the boss of the place is. And it would be satisfying to know in your heart that's what they deserve.
That part is not tremendously difficult to understand. There is precedent in terms of human behavior.
What gets me is stuff like how a short while ago Trump ripped Clinton (and rightly so) for her association with Goldman Sachs, and today Mnuchin is now treasury secretary.
To be so partisan as to compartmentalize that kind of thing boggles my mind. I find this kind of dissociation to be distinct from blind fervor. More like the kind of thing you'd read in ""1984"", applied only after the rabid nationalism has taken hold.
I cannot say whether the current administration has the intent, and I question if it has the competence to usurp the country, it's just extremely concerning.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 14, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
A plausible idea, but it doesn't explain why this cabinet has ideological leanings so far to the right and consistently at odds with the roles they've been assigned - for example, Rick Perry calling to eliminate the Department of Energy then becoming nominated to be head of the Department of Energy. You'd think a cabinet chosen purely for loyalty would occasionally have an agreeable appointee. Even drawing names out of a hat would be better than this.
I would search out each and every appointed cabinet member to discover the where and when that cabinet member aided Trump. But it upsets my stomach so much that I'll pass on that. But if one were to do that they'd find he is rewarding them for something they did for him. I does not care one iota what they will do in that position or if they are fit for it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 14, 2017, 12:46:53 PM
This is my own little pet hypothesis. Trump does not give a rats ass about this country, except in the ways he can add money to his own coffers. He has already said many, many times that if you get on his bad side he stoops to revenge--and his revenge is 10 times what he thinks the transgression was. On the flip side he rewards those who have aided him quite richly; that is why his cabinet will be totally fucked up--he doesn't care; the cabinet is simply a way to pay off those that are his allies. His one overriding goal is to amass as much money for himself and then his friends as he can. If it causes huge problems for the country as a whole does not enter into the equation. Fleece this country--his one and only goal for his time as president.
Don't worry, nobody can limbo like Millard Fillmore ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 14, 2017, 10:03:25 PM
I would search out each and every appointed cabinet member to discover the where and when that cabinet member aided Trump.
Your suspicion is warranted (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/09/the-six-donors-trump-appointed-to-his-administration-gave-almost-12-million-with-their-families-to-his-campaign-and-the-party/).
Still, this is like picking Captain Pollution (the polar opposite of Captain Planet) to head the EPA.
(https://i.imgur.com/6zXBD6G.gif)
I would love to think democrats could just run on one issue come time for the midterm elections. That issue would be IMMEDIATE IMPEACHMENT.. I'm a democrat and not in the least ashamed nor should I.
I'm fully aware that democrats also have idiots in the party, but I trust our idiots far more than republican idiots.
Right now republicans are getting perilously close to a position of a midterm massacre if they just go along with the Trump agenda especially with people like Miller telling people that Trump is 100% correct and is not to be questioned by the press.
They're going out of their way to attempt to portray all of the open press as completely untrustworthy and the only voice of reason being Trump.
That's not to say we should always believe everything the press puts out, but Trump forgets that the vast majority of people do get their news from the press. Once the press turns on the president, any president their time is over.
There is just not enough people willing to consider outlets such as Brightbart and the Alex Jones's of the world as credible. When his own party turns on him he's definitely toast, but I wouldn't count on the republican party ever putting country above party. To the contrary, they've shown time and time again they're more than willing to put party above country. The best interest of the nation is taking a back seat to power.
Let's have a good old fashioned midterm massacre and have a huge traffic jam of republicans leaving Washington.
Trump selected Cabinet members and advisors who were essentially off-the-wall and who hate the organizations they will be running. That is never a good management strategy. Mike Flynn was the first to go by being both conspiracy-minded and a loose canon. Some others are likely to follow.
A famous bookie business in Sotland is offerring odds for Trump administration resignations and even Trump resigning. They might well be right. But I'll stick to stock indexes.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2017, 01:08:00 AM
Mike Flynn was the first to go by being both conspiracy-minded and a loose canon.
I'm not so sure he was a loose canon. He may well have done exactly what Chump wanted him to do, leaving Chump with plenty of plausible deniability. I'm also not sure he lied to Pence. It may well be that it was Pence who lied to us, not Flynn to him. We'll just have to wait and see.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 15, 2017, 05:36:41 PM
I'm not so sure he was a loose canon. He may well have done exactly what Chump wanted him to do, leaving Chump with plenty of plausible deniability. I'm also not sure he lied to Pence. It may well be that it was Pence who lied to us, not Flynn to him. We'll just have to wait and see.
What happens in the Imperial Palace, stays in the Imperial Palace.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2017, 01:08:00 AM
Trump selected Cabinet members and advisors who were essentially off-the-wall and who hate the organizations they will be running. That is never a good management strategy. Mike Flynn was the first to go by being both conspiracy-minded and a loose canon. Some others are likely to follow.
This was done by Reagan too. The strategy is to weaken the agencies that get in their way. It's probably been done lots of times. Not usually in such a defiant way. They usually spin it as something good for the people.
Quote from: Baruch on February 15, 2017, 06:31:54 PM
What happens in the Imperial Palace, stays in the Imperial Palace.
Not if the deep state keeps leaking like the Oroville dam spillway...
Apply Rumsfeld theory to real/fake news/leak theory ...
Known knowns - real news, out there already
Known unknowns - fake news, out there already
Unknown knowns - real news, not yet leaked
Unknown unknowns - fake news, not yet leaked
No one screams fake news better than an egotistical idiot bent on destroying the country.
Quote from: SGOS on February 15, 2017, 06:47:57 PM
This was done by Reagan too. The strategy is to weaken the agencies that get in their way. It's probably been done lots of times. Not usually in such a defiant way. They usually spin it as something good for the people.
Never the way Trump does it... Everytime I think there is a new low, it gets lower.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/33989931.jpg)
Quote from: Sorginak on February 17, 2017, 12:24:53 AM
No one screams fake news better than an egotistical idiot bent on destroying the country.
Obama? Shrub? Bill?
No one screams "fake news" louder than one who fakes it.
Does it bother anyone that Trump can't stop making falsifiable statements about his election results? Does it bother anyone that he speak any sentence without some insult creeping in? Does it bother anyone that he can't or won't answer any yes/no question? Does it bother anyone that his advisors leave any interview and laugh their guts out?
Actually, in cynicism, nothing surprises me anymore. I was shocked, shocked I tell you, back in 1974 with Watergate, but then I was in HS. So after all those years in the belly of the beast, you actually think government is good for anything? (sarc).
Quote from: Cavebear on February 17, 2017, 05:55:03 AM
Does it bother anyone that his advisors leave any interview and laugh their guts out?
It really bothered me when Netanyahu laughed out loud at Chump during their joint press conference. Has that ever happened before, that a head of state actually laughed at any president that way?
And when he's called on his lies, he just says "I was just given that information" like that means anything.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 17, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
It really bothered me when Netanyahu laughed out loud at Chump during their joint press conference. Has that ever happened before, that a head of state actually laughed at any president that way?
And when he's called on his lies, he just says "I was just given that information" like that means anything.
Obama wore strange clothes to please the Chinese, and bowed to the Japanese Emperor. Michelle touched the Queen without asking. Shrub actually danced for the Saudis. Dignity is long dead, around 1914.
Quote from: Baruch on February 17, 2017, 06:33:56 PM
Obama wore strange clothes to please the Chinese, and bowed to the Japanese Emperor. Michelle touched the Queen without asking. Shrub actually danced for the Saudis. Dignity is long dead, around 1914.
Ignoring the first parts, how did 1914 get involved?
You see, if you got rid of Amendment 22 you could have had Obama installed as a monarch, King Obama I.
Better still, Emperor of the Americas.
Just a thought.
Quote from: pr126 on February 19, 2017, 04:32:43 AM
You see, if you got rid of Amendment 22 you could have had Obama installed as a monarch, King Obama I.
Better still, Emperor of the Americas.
Just a thought.
Not much of a thought. Obama never showed any sign of desiring to be a monarch. Trump, on the other hand, seems to be going for that daily.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2017, 03:02:35 AM
Ignoring the first parts, how did 1914 get involved?
President Wilson looked good in spectacles, very much like the Princeton professor he was ... like Obama, but Obama didn't wear neat glasses.
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2017, 07:07:02 AM
President Wilson looked good in spectacles, very much like the Princeton professor he was ... like Obama, but Obama didn't wear neat glasses.
So Wilson wore glasses and Obama did not, therefore Wilson was "professorial" and Obama was not? Obama might have been the most "professorial" President ever.
Does it ever bother you that you embarrass your side of arguments when you make no sense? Just asking.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 06:12:21 AM
So Wilson wore glasses and Obama did not, therefore Wilson was "professorial" and Obama was not? Obama might have been the most "professorial" President ever.
Does it ever bother you that you embarrass your side of arguments when you make no sense? Just asking.
Obama bot and Hillary bot you are. Stormtrooper for Darth Vader you are. Yes, Obama had 15 PhDs and 20 Nobel prizes ;-)
I wasn't praising Wilson, just saying how voters are taken in by superficialities. Are fat people jolly? Was President Taft jolly?
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:35:04 AM
Obama bot and Hillary bot you are. Stormtrooper for Darth Vader you are. Yes, Obama had 15 PhDs and 20 Nobel prizes ;-)
I wasn't praising Wilson, just saying how voters are taken in by superficialities. Are fat people jolly? Was President Taft jolly?
No, you related Wilson wearing glasses and being a professor. And suggesting that Obama was less intelligent than Wilson. Obama most assuredly was not.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:35:04 AM
Was President Taft jolly?
Yeah, mostly. Except when he couldn't get out of that bath tub.
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 26, 2017, 01:30:53 PM
Yeah, mostly. Except when he couldn't get out of that bath tub.
Well, if I was a really fat guy and President with no real problems to solve, I might be pretty jolly myself!
Update (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_22417.pdf):
QuoteLast week Trump declared that the news media was the 'enemy of the American people' but we find that only 35% of voters believe that, to 53% who say that isn't the case. By a 48/44 spread they say it is actually Trump who is the greater threat to the American people than the media. We asked voters who they thought had more credibility between Trump and each of the outlets he singled out for attack last week, and Trump loses out to every one of them by double digits
:rrotflmao:
Granted, knowing that 35% of the public are complete morons who'll believe anything is worrying, but the majority isn't fooled by Trump's bullshit in the slightest. That's great. It gives me hope for the future.
Polls are great and all but the day it really mattered, Nov 8th, Americans didn't show up and vote. We got exactly what we deserved.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 26, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
Update (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_22417.pdf):
:rrotflmao:
Granted, knowing that 35% of the public are complete morons who'll believe anything is worrying, but the majority isn't fooled by Trump's bullshit in the slightest. That's great. It gives me hope for the future.
I look at it this way. Half the population is stupider than average. Religious people are stupider than average by tests. Religious people are more likely to be Republican. Republicans are therefore stupider than average. And they elected Trump.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Well, if I was a really fat guy and President with no real problems to solve, I might be pretty jolly myself!
Taft had plenty of problems ... undoing all of Teddy's reforms. Then Wilson came in, pushing the imperialism ala McKinley ... and segregating DC ... which had been Free Black since Lincoln. Wilson was KKK and a stooge of the Bank of England.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:26:50 PM
Taft had plenty of problems ... undoing all of Teddy's reforms. Then Wilson came in, pushing the imperialism ala McKinley ... and segregating DC ... which had been Free Black since Lincoln. Wilson was KKK and a stooge of the Bank of England.
Taft filed more lawsuits against trusts than had been filed during the Roosevelt administration. Taft created more national parks and forestland.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 26, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
Update (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_22417.pdf):
:rrotflmao:
Granted, knowing that 35% of the public are complete morons who'll believe anything is worrying, but the majority isn't fooled by Trump's bullshit in the slightest. That's great. It gives me hope for the future.
Wait, so should I accept the talking point by MSM that the election was hacked by Russia, or should I accept the talking point a month prior to that saying that it is not possible to hack the election? I don't want to be one of the morons in the 35 %. I know. I'll just accept both talking points because I know MSM wouldn't lie to me. Maybe MSM is telling the truth and the election was both unhackable and hacked at the same time, kinda like how the Pope says evolution is true, but Jesus was also a truth teller even though he spoke of the creation in Genesis. I don't understand how the MSM could be telling me the truth when they give contradictory statements, but I'm just going to have faith and trust that they wouldn't lie to me, because I don't want to be counted as one of the 35 % who's too stupid to understand how contradictory statements can indeed both be true.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 02, 2017, 09:18:42 AM
Taft filed more lawsuits against trusts than had been filed during the Roosevelt administration. Taft created more national parks and forestland.
Yes, and George W choked on more pretzels. Cheney says ... so!
PS ... Russia didn't hack our last election, it was the MSM journalists who were hacks ;-)
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on March 02, 2017, 12:48:47 PMWait, so should I accept the talking point by MSM that the election was hacked by Russia, or should I accept the talking point a month prior to that saying that it is not possible to hack the election? I don't want to be one of the morons in the 35 %. I know.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a7/a711e3ed2203db12612ea5db83375b678d4f61cc9120d7bdefcbd54856229401.jpg)
Some Democrats claim that the Russian hacks on the DNC and the Clinton emails (http://time.com/4600177/election-hack-russia-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/) influenced the results of the election, not that Russians hacked the actual election.
Trump and some of his supporters claim that millions of illegals voted for Clinton (//http://), costing Trump the popular vote. Any sort of evidence has so far not been forthcoming and election experts dispute this claim.
Where do you get your news from, btw? Is it Alex Jones or just someone extremely similar to Alex Jones?
Either way, you're obviously poorly served by your sources and come up with a pretty bizarre (and highly inaccurate) perception of reality because of it.
And rest assured that if you are one of those people who does believe the line told by tin-pot dictators around the world and now by Trump that the news is the "enemy of the American people", then you are indeed a moron.
Sorry, the biggest hack in the last election, was that two time loser (not counting marriage) Hillary the Magnificent.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 02, 2017, 02:05:35 PM
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a7/a711e3ed2203db12612ea5db83375b678d4f61cc9120d7bdefcbd54856229401.jpg)
Some Democrats claim that the Russian hacks on the DNC and the Clinton emails (http://time.com/4600177/election-hack-russia-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/) influenced the results of the election, not that Russians hacked the actual election.
Trump and some of his supporters claim that millions of illegals voted for Clinton (//http://), costing Trump the popular vote. Any sort of evidence has so far not been forthcoming and election experts dispute this claim.
Where do you get your news from, btw? Is it Alex Jones or just someone extremely similar to Alex Jones?
Either way, you're obviously poorly served by your sources and come up with a pretty bizarre (and highly inaccurate) perception of reality because of it.
And rest assured that if you are one of those people who does believe the line told by tin-pot dictators around the world and now by Trump that the news is the "enemy of the American people", then you are indeed a moron.
The headlines said Russian election hacking. The people on tv giving talking points called it Russian election hacking. The talking point by those who first brought up the dangers of "fake news" was that the headlines were false and that a great deal of people were not even reading the stories and just took the headlines as gospel. How is this Russian election hacking thing any different? Half of Democrats polled believe that Russia was actually involved with changing vote tallies. Why do they believe that? BS headlines in the MSM. Do you have another explanation for why they would believe such nonsense? I don't think they got that idea from alternative media. So tell me, how is that any different than a headlines from an alt-righter saying that Hillary kills and chops up children personally, but then goes on in the article to clarify that they were talking about her involvement in the US going into Lybia and not any murder committed with her own hands? It's the same damn thing. On top of this, you have other articles where it was claimed Russian hackers had penetrated the US power grid and other lies like that. Fake news on top of fake news.
I've said before that Alex Jones is as fake as it gets, and that Trump could perhaps be the worst President ever. I get my news from plenty of places. MSM and alternative media on both the left and right. I'm a lefty and I like The Humanist Report a lot, for example. Left wing media outlets are pretty much all saying the same thing I am. The left is in agreement that the Russia talking points are BS. The boy who cried wolf.
I believe tin-pot dictators? Well, I do when they are correct. Bernie told us the same thing during the primaries, only his words were a little tamer than Trump's, but essentially he said the exact same thing about the MSM.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 08:35:04 AM
Obama bot and Hillary bot you are. Stormtrooper for Darth Vader you are. Yes, Obama had 15 PhDs and 20 Nobel prizes ;-)
I wasn't praising Wilson, just saying how voters are taken in by superficialities. Are fat people jolly? Was President Taft jolly?
Oddly enough all Obama's academic accomplishments are hidden from the public.
Some of his tutors don't even remember him as a student.
Why?
Poll: voters despise Trump, favor Obama.
We all know how reliable polls are.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on March 03, 2017, 08:57:50 AM
The headlines said Russian election hacking. The people on tv giving talking points called it Russian election hacking. The talking point by those who first brought up the dangers of "fake news" was that the headlines were false and that a great deal of people were not even reading the stories and just took the headlines as gospel. How is this Russian election hacking thing any different? Half of Democrats polled believe that Russia was actually involved with changing vote tallies. Why do they believe that? BS headlines in the MSM. Do you have another explanation for why they would believe such nonsense? I don't think they got that idea from alternative media. So tell me, how is that any different than a headlines from an alt-righter saying that Hillary kills and chops up children personally, but then goes on in the article to clarify that they were talking about her involvement in the US going into Lybia and not any murder committed with her own hands? It's the same damn thing. On top of this, you have other articles where it was claimed Russian hackers had penetrated the US power grid and other lies like that. Fake news on top of fake news.
I've said before that Alex Jones is as fake as it gets, and that Trump could perhaps be the worst President ever. I get my news from plenty of places. MSM and alternative media on both the left and right. I'm a lefty and I like The Humanist Report a lot, for example. Left wing media outlets are pretty much all saying the same thing I am. The left is in agreement that the Russia talking points are BS. The boy who cried wolf.
I believe tin-pot dictators? Well, I do when they are correct. Bernie told us the same thing during the primaries, only his words were a little tamer than Trump's, but essentially he said the exact same thing about the MSM.
Deep State evangelical wackos need their "Jeebus America" nukes "Putin Russia". Not fake news ... insanity.
I think the left is hating Russia because they abandoned communism.
:>) /s
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 03:45:16 AM
I think the left is hating Russia because they abandoned communism.
:>) /s
The Russians once said, that the French are so sophisticated, that only they could make communism work (aka Russians are stupid peasants who can't make anything work). A lot of Americans want to be China (slave in FoxCon factory) or Cuba (rum on the beach, man). I wish they would just go. Yes, they hate that Russia and China abandoned communism, they see Star Trek as an ideal version of the EU. They love the fearless leader of N Korea (Romulans). And soon with LePen, France will abandon communism too. Where will all the Lefties go? "One of these days Alice, Pow!, to the Moon!"
Brexit? Germany will invade GB first. They love the Yorkshire pudding.
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 03:45:16 AM
I think the left is hating Russia because they abandoned communism.
:>) /s
No. It's because following the freedom brought to them by Gorbachev, they have once again embraced authoritarianism.
It's the same reason we oppose Trump. We on the left love freedom.
Quote from: Atheon on March 04, 2017, 11:43:23 AM
No. It's because following the freedom brought to them by Gorbachev, they have once again embraced authoritarianism.
It's the same reason we oppose Trump. We on the left love freedom.
And you are convinced that Trump will throw all of you in chains. No more freedom in the USA.
End of the world.
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
And you are convinced that Trump will throw all of you in chains. No more freedom in the USA.
End of the world.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/graphene_gfx/Ryan%20Reynolds%20GIFS/SNICKER.gif)
Quote from: Atheon on March 04, 2017, 11:43:23 AM
No. It's because following the freedom brought to them by Gorbachev, they have once again embraced authoritarianism.
It's the same reason we oppose Trump. We on the left love freedom.
The only society, other than hunter/gatherer ... since Egypt built pyramids, is authoritarian. The US has always been authoritarian. Obama has been caught, abusing the White House, spying on the President-elect between election and inauguration. He should be tried as the Nixonian he is. Michelle is now making goo-goo eyes at George W ... barf me now! And in a hunter/gather group, where everyone is at least cousins to everyone else ... the pater familias is the boss ... if that isn't you, then you become lion food. But freedom loving rebels, criminals, traitors and anarchists ... will have their hissy fits ... and lose, every century.
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
And you are convinced that Trump will throw all of you in chains. No more freedom in the USA.
End of the world.
I agree with 19th century plutocracy ... we should hire half the Americans to kill the other half.
Obama is currently operating, two blocks from the White House ... with the intent to get Trump to resign, or to get him impeached. Off with all their heads ... said the mad queen (Hillary). We are all slaves of Soros' color revolutions. Wait for it in GB too. The plotters against King James II of England, were traitors too. They got the Dutch to invade England, successfully. It was OK, only because they won, if not, they would have been drawn and quartered.
The left has been whining since November the 8 with no let down.
Frankly, it is getting a real pain. Stop it.
Get on with your lives.
Weren't you "whining" during Obama's term? :headscratch:
QuoteWeren't you "whining" during Obama's term?
I am not American. In the UK we whine about other things.
But yeah, Obama was not the best choice for president.
Here is a thing. He was selected, [by globalist] not elected. Just like Trudeau in Canada.
Oh, he was installed by the globalists. Ah, okay. Well, I'm convinced. Clearly, your position isn't just rank hypocrisy.
So...if and when Trump institutes some policy that the libtards don't like, they should do what, exactly? What reaction do you deem appropriate for them to have?
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 05, 2017, 12:32:00 AM
Oh, he was installed by the globalists. Ah, okay. Well, I'm convinced. Clearly, your position isn't just rank hypocrisy.
So...if and when Trump institutes some policy that the libtards don't like, they should do what, exactly? What reaction do you deem appropriate for them to have?
Why, whine endlessly of course.
Or riot, burn, smash, destroy. Wait, they are already doing that.
BTW, something to cherish in times of despair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0F6jGenEuU
Quote from: Baruch on March 02, 2017, 01:03:43 PM
Yes, and George W choked on more pretzels. Cheney says ... so!
PS ... Russia didn't hack our last election, it was the MSM journalists who were hacks ;-)
Utterly lacking in both relevance and facts. And a non sequitur, as well.
It seems that the left incapable to think for themselves. The MSM is doing all the thinking for them.
Not dissimilar to a religious doctrine where the church is controlling the narrative.
All ideas to the contrary must be dismissed as heresy.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 01:13:16 AM
It seems that the left incapable to think for themselves. The MSM is doing all the thinking for them.
Not dissimilar to a religious doctrine where the church is controlling the narrative.
All ideas to the contrary must be dismissed as heresy.
I'm Progressive. I don't actually think of that in terms of Left or Right. There is a difference. "Progressive" thinks in terms of moving the world ahead. In the 70's, that was restricting the power of unions that were stifling business. In the 90's that was regulating businesses that were polluting the environment. Lately, it is controlling global business collusion.
And today it is eliminating voter restrictions, gerrymandered voting districts, and the effects of extremely wealthy individuals influencing our elections in hidden campaigns.
I am neither Left nor Right.
Progressive == regressive. + Authoritarian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiU20QjKPCo
Progressive means different things to different people. But hey, if it means bringing about positive reforms (as opposed to championing the status quo or rolling back previous gains), I'm happy to join them in common cause.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 01:38:47 AM
Progressive == regressive. + Authoritarian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiU20QjKPCo
I do not live by offended feelings. Mr. Will, as intelligent as he infrequently is, mistakens "liberal" for "progressive". The 2 are sometimes similar in goals, but are not the same.
How To Insult A "Progressive"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCis1U1nFR0
And, amazingly, a right wing nutcase probably can't insult a progressive by being insulting. We are more factually-inclined. Insults like water over a duck's back, so to speak.
Fingers in the ear shouting lalala?
I thought so.
Nobody with a different idea can be considered sane, so best not listen to them.
Such certitude! Borders on the fanatic.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 05:12:09 AM
Fingers in the ear shouting lalala?
I thought so.
Nobody with a different idea can be considered sane, so best not listen to them.
Such certitude! Borders on the fanatic.
Hardly. My point was that insults do not make for good arguments, my fingers are not in my ears, and I am not chanting "la la la".
But there ARE bad arguments and I will be pleased to discuss those with you IF you will present one.
Pat Condell in the video makes a few points which you could argue against.
Why not start on those?
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 01:13:16 AM
It seems that the left incapable to think for themselves. The MSM is doing all the thinking for them.
Not dissimilar to a religious doctrine where the church is controlling the narrative.
Beware of the glass house phenomenon. When you explain personal thoughts and conclusions using Utube, your powers of independent analysis become as suspect as those who can't think for themselves.
Quote from: SGOS on March 05, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
Beware of the glass house phenomenon. When you explain personal thoughts and conclusions using Utube, your powers of independent analysis become as suspect as those who can't think for themselves.
I agree. The value of an argument depends on the source of the facts. Youtube is not the best of sources.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 05, 2017, 01:54:12 AM
Progressive means different things to different people. But hey, if it means bringing about positive reforms (as opposed to championing the status quo or rolling back previous gains), I'm happy to join them in common cause.
I only wish that is what it means. Who can be against that? But in fact, people are divided, based on their irrational political ideologies.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 12:20:51 AM
I am not American. In the UK we whine about other things.
But yeah, Obama was not the best choice for president.
Here is a thing. He was selected, [by globalist] not elected. Just like Trudeau in Canada.
That is why they had to hide his shitty college transcripts, as top secret!
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 10:57:29 PM
The left has been whining since November the 8 with no let down.
Frankly, it is getting a real pain. Stop it.
Get on with your lives.
Marx told them, never let up, they have Dialectical Materialism to thank for their inevitable victory ;-)
Obama ordered a wire tap on Trump's tweets.QuoteDonald Trump is irate over Obama's wire taps on his private computer. "Some of the tweets I post on Twitter are highly confidential," said Trump, "They are not meant for the public. Obama is just angry because I beat Hillary in a landslide, the biggest electoral landslide in history, because everyone voted for me instead of her, because she's a crazy woman." Trump went on, "Everyone loves me. I could shoot a guy and they would love me. That's why I won by the biggest landslide ever. Obama's attempt to make my tweets public is an attempt to undermine my presidency and make me look like a fool who is addicted to posting gibberish on Twitter. But I didn't put Twitter out there. It was already part of the internet when I was elected."
Obama denies ordering the wiretap. Confirming that it exists, and that things do happen thru spontaneous recombination of atoms, without any willfulness.
Easy to explain by others ... Obama asked the British to do it (GCHQ and NSA are bros).
Speculation on it:
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/04/if-trump-tower-was-wiretapped-trump-can-declassify-that-right-now/
I don't think this will never happen. The first rule of fight club is to never discuss fight club. I am sure the President Emeritus, operating out of the in-abstentia WH ... would agree. Every ex President, and maybe VP ... while still living ... has their own version of Nixon's Capistrano hide away.
Quote from: pr126 on March 04, 2017, 10:57:29 PM
The left has been whining since November the 8 with no let down.
Frankly, it is getting a real pain. Stop it.
Get on with your lives.
Fuck no. It's our right, nay, duty to dissent. To say this administration is appalling is a grave understatement. I will not shut up about it.
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 01:13:16 AM
It seems that the left incapable to think for themselves. The MSM is doing all the thinking for them.
Not dissimilar to a religious doctrine where the church is controlling the narrative.
All ideas to the contrary must be dismissed as heresy.
You just don't care to listen. That's your problem.
Quote from: Mermaid on March 05, 2017, 09:18:48 AM
You just don't care to listen. That's your problem.
Projecting much?
Quote from: pr126 on March 05, 2017, 09:43:38 AM
Projecting much?
You are the one who made the divisive, inflammatory sweeping generalization that anyone who doesn't align politically with you cannot think for themselves. Shut the fuck up.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids? - Rodney King
Ambition, jealousy, greed, fear, hate say no.
Quote from: SGOS on March 05, 2017, 08:35:35 AM
Obama ordered a wire tap on Trump's tweets.
Is there any evidence for that claim?
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2017, 04:21:53 PM
Is there any evidence for that claim?
http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-of-tapping-phones/
Basically, he was parroting dubious right-wing sources and in turn, becomes their source. And around and around we go. It's a closed loop completely separated from reality. That's why so many of Trump's tweets seem nonsensical or insane to outsiders.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2017, 04:21:53 PM
Is there any evidence for that claim?
Who needs evidence? It's from the White House. Either Trump is completely off his rocker, or the whole country is nuts. Why would evidence matter? What America needs is Thorazine.
Quote from: SGOS on March 05, 2017, 05:13:16 PMWho needs evidence? It's from the White House.
(http://i.imgur.com/2XQjjBA.png)
Sat Oct 26, 2013
The United States may have bugged Angela Merkel's phone for more than 10 years, according to a news report on Saturday that also said President Barack Obama told the German leader he would have stopped it happening had he known about it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-usa-spying-idUSBRE99P08G20131026
27 Oct 2013 (the very next day)
The president allegedly allowed US intelligence to listen to calls from the German Chancellor’s mobile phone after he was briefed on the operation by Keith Alexander, director of the National Security Agency (NSA), in 2010.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack-Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html
Wednesday 8 July 2015
The latest WikiLeaks release comes just over a week after it published a report showing the NSA wiretapped the communications of two successive French finance ministers and collected information on French export contracts, trade and budget talks.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/08/nsa-tapped-german-chancellery-decades-wikileaks-claims-merkel
23 February 2016
In 2015 it also became known that German intelligence service the BND had provided information to the NSA which allowed them to spy on senior European politicians and businessmen.
https://www.thelocal.de/20160223/nsa-eavesdropped-on-merkels-intimate-conversations
Point being... Of Course they did! Snowden revealed the expansive and invasive spying on americans, the links above regarding spying on alias, and the buck stops on the Presidents desk. Trump source(s) revealed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91fNfGjZdM0&feature=youtu.be
I am going to imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth for faux news. Well... MSM could have introduced Levin but chose not to; not the narrative they want to convey is it? Levin quotes plenty of left wing news in above video.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 05, 2017, 04:44:47 PM
http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-of-tapping-phones/
Basically, he was parroting dubious right-wing sources and in turn, becomes their source. And around and around we go. It's a closed loop completely separated from reality. That's why so many of Trump's tweets seem nonsensical or insane to outsiders.
It is still under investigation, and it might have been GCHQ. Comy denied it, and Clapper, a known perjurer ... says it never happened. Snopes? Been debunked. Just another CIA psyop.
chili98 ... yes Nixon was innocent, ahah ... ahah! Of course, it might be someone else in the Obama administration. The FBI asked for wiretaps on three occasions, and got permission the third time, in October. I can't wait for the Demos to back Comey and Clapper, who have done such good things for their party ... teehee.
One wonders where the left get their "facts" from.
"Facts" like Trump is literally Hitler, he will deport all aliens, he will start WWIII, he will put all Muslims into interment camps, he will destroy America, he will enslave all Americans, no more freedom of any kind, and all sundry of total destruction of everything we hold dear.
Are these "facts" from the MSM? The academia? The George Soros NGOs?
Who is controlling your minds?
Do you ever question, look for evidence in other than the "approved" sources?
We are all good anti-Russians now, Comrade Lenin.
Quote from: pr126 on March 06, 2017, 02:17:14 AM
One wonders where the left get their "facts" from.
"Facts" like Trump is literally Hitler, he will deport all aliens, he will start WWIII, he will put all Muslims into interment camps, he will destroy America, he will enslave all Americans, no more freedom of any kind, and all sundry of total destruction of everything we hold dear.
Are these "facts" from the MSM? The academia? The George Soros NGOs?
Who is controlling your minds?
Do you ever question, look for evidence in other than the "approved" sources?
Said without a hint of irony. Truly impressive.
(http://i.imgur.com/0mKXcg1.gif)
Quote from: pr126 on March 06, 2017, 02:17:14 AMOne wonders where the left get their "facts" from.
Relevant experts or journalists reporting from relevant experts, mostly.
Where do you get yours from, some batshit blog listing zero sources?
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 06, 2017, 12:09:49 PM
Relevant experts or journalists reporting from relevant experts, mostly.
Where do you get yours from, some batshit blog listing zero sources?
From the sites "liberals" dare not go. The alternate reality.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 06, 2017, 07:35:09 AM
Said without a hint of irony. Truly impressive.
(http://i.imgur.com/0mKXcg1.gif)
What do you want to be when you grow up?
Quote from: pr126 on March 07, 2017, 12:57:58 PM
What do you want to be when you grow up?
Nothing like you.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 07, 2017, 01:13:29 PM
Nothing like you.
His avatar is definitely less pretty than mine. Have you seen pictures of Capuchin monk mummies? That is what you will look like, many years after you join the monastery (some of us will look worse).
Quote from: pr126 on March 06, 2017, 02:17:14 AM
One wonders where the left get their "facts" from.
"Facts" like Trump is literally Hitler, he will deport all aliens, he will start WWIII, he will put all Muslims into interment camps, he will destroy America, he will enslave all Americans, no more freedom of any kind, and all sundry of total destruction of everything we hold dear.
Are these "facts" from the MSM? The academia? The George Soros NGOs?
Who is controlling your minds?
Well, Trump IS trying deport all aliens, he IS supporting nuclearizing more nations (which would make WWIII more likely), he IS suggesting Moslem internment (or at least removal and surveillance), and he IS trying to reduce freedom of speech and expanding the definitions of libel.
That seems pretty "factual" to me.
Do you ever question, look for evidence in other than the "approved" sources?
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 02, 2017, 02:05:35 PM
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a7/a711e3ed2203db12612ea5db83375b678d4f61cc9120d7bdefcbd54856229401.jpg)
Some Democrats claim that the Russian hacks on the DNC and the Clinton emails (http://time.com/4600177/election-hack-russia-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/) influenced the results of the election, not that Russians hacked the actual election.
I was watching AC 360 on CNN last night and caught this; Anderson Cooper - "But we actually know that the Russians hacked into the election which is--"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1703/16/acd.01.html
He didn't say hacking during the campaign or hacking concerning the election. He said hacked into the election, and just left it at that. Didn't explain what he meant or what he was talking about. If you can't see why the MSM does this...
Enemy of the American people. Not because they criticize Trump, since there is plenty to legitimately criticize him for, and Trump is absolutely also enemy of the people, but when the MSM constantly lies to the people and kneecaps actual progressives like Bernie who want to help Americans far more than the people the MSM props up, they are an enemy. You kneecap progressives and that hurts the American people. Kneecapping Bernie got Trump elected. Covering Trump's empty podiums rather than covering Bernie rallies and smearing Bernie when he actually was covered gave you Donald Trump.
Most articles that refer to a "Russian hack" explain that they're talking about the leaking of DNC data on Wikileaks in the run-up to the election, not a hack of the actual election (https://www.forbes.com/sites/haroldstark/2017/01/24/how-russia-hacked-the-election/#172dd16a4a9f). By "Russian hack" they're not talking about Russian operatives changing the vote tallies or whatever other nonsense you think they're saying. Apparently, some don't do as good a job of explaining that as others. And CNN is not particularly well known for its accurate reporting, so no surprise there.
It's pretty mystifying how you ignore the more numerous accurately-stated allegations and instead focus on the few muddled, misleading statements and pretend like that's the real argument. I suppose that's the only position you feel you can convincingly argue against.
I would agree with you in that the media "lies" in the sense that inaccurate reporting, true but misleading information, bullshit talking points, false balance, and an increasingly infotainment format is really hurting the media's reliability and accuracy.
However, Trump's statement goes much, much further than that. It brands the press in general as traitors to the American people, which is a hell of a charge to make. And coincidentally, the press is often critical of Trump and his policies. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the motivation behind his statement.
Obviously, I don't agree with that. McCain doesn't agree with that (http://fortune.com/2017/02/19/donald-trump-john-mccain-media-dictators/). Bush W doesn't agree with that (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/george-w-bush-free-press-indispensable-democracy-n726141). I doubt any American who actually believes in the First Amendment agrees with that.
And also, we've seen this song and dance before (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/16/trumps-war-on-the-news-media-is-serious-just-look-at-latin-america/) with tinpot dictators. If you're cool with that, more's the pity.
The major problem with Trump is that he is attempting to run the government as a business; an employer in charge of his employees.
It just will not work.
Quote from: Sorginak on March 17, 2017, 03:43:35 PM
The major problem with Trump is that he is attempting to run the government as a business; an employer in charge of his employees.
It just will not work.
Congress = herding feral cats with rabies. Get someone else to cage them ;-(
Quote from: Sorginak on March 17, 2017, 03:43:35 PM
The major problem with Trump is that he is attempting to run the government as a business; an employer in charge of his employees.
It just will not work.
It's worse. He is showing increasing signs of authoritarianism. He is attacking the professional media as fake news and favoring the minor ones who support him, he is making unsupported claims against political rivals and suggesting criminal activity, he is spreading rumors, he is diminishing the public trust in all government systems, and he is isolating us from our allies (I suspect) in order to increase his domestic control of business and monetary policy.
That's how it historically starts. No one ever thinks it will happen "here" (wherever they live)...
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 17, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
However, Trump's statement goes much, much further than that. It brands the press in general as traitors to the American people, which is a hell of a charge to make. And coincidentally, the press is often critical of Trump and his policies. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the motivation behind his statement.
Obviously, I don't agree with that. McCain doesn't agree with that (http://fortune.com/2017/02/19/donald-trump-john-mccain-media-dictators/). Bush W doesn't agree with that (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/george-w-bush-free-press-indispensable-democracy-n726141). I doubt any American who actually believes in the First Amendment agrees with that.
And also, we've seen this song and dance before (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/16/trumps-war-on-the-news-media-is-serious-just-look-at-latin-america/) with tinpot dictators. If you're cool with that, more's the pity.
They absolutely are traitors to the American people. Every time more civil liberties are taken away or about to be taken away, MSM defends them all the way along. Obama had the right to lock up American citizens on American soil without trial, and the media cheers this on and calls it necessary to protect Americans from terrorists. The MSM covers Syria and portrays the Muslim terrorists as the good guys while at the same time pushing for intervention and ground troops.
In the wikileaks emails there was talk of conspiring to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. This is the job of the media. To help those in power keep the citizens unaware and compliant. Now, I would imagine you would agree with me that it's insane that protesters on American soil can be locked up without trial and I would imagine that you agree with me that it's horrible that the MSM covered for Obama in this instance and in others where civil liberties were being lost, etc, so why defend the media knowing that they do this? It reminds me of TYT. Before Trump was in office, they said the MSM was horrible, but now that Trump is in office and knocked the media, they're starting to call these media outlets respectable. The enemy of my enemy is my friend? I don't get it.
You don't get it? Most people are theists. The Democrats are the Holy People. The MSM are the Holy Messengers. The DNC are the Holy Saints. The D-plutocracy are the Holy Saviors. This is idolatry of course. The R-demons worship a different Devil.
It is OK if people don't like someone they never met ... dislike them by their reputation (earned or not). This is the kind of monkey business even atheists (so called rational and moderate skeptics) are capable of. For some atheists .. the Democrats, MSM, DNC and D-plutocracy fill their ideological needs, instead of theological needs. But for most people, their feelings are of a theological sort. The superiority of the D-party is simply natural, rather than supernatural ;-p
The polls they were showing during Face The Nation this morning seemed to imply that people like and trust Trump.
(http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/03/19/9a7c4680-e0a5-4cd0-b91f-c7ca659bf7b2/resize/620x/2c7752c8d1f307aedefed0cda3ea7409/poll2.jpg)
(http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/03/19/b02cdb86-5874-4935-ad48-cea620aa389d/resize/620x/e31b66103532aa22e99683380b082648/poll-nt-02.jpg%5B/img%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttp://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/03/19/cf04a5c3-73a8-4f6d-9e39-24392f3aed8e/resize/620x/b4b173d2d3106560e0d9925434a0bb44/poll1.jpg)
(http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/03/19/2356e636-3af7-4aa8-958b-1c77a7fa4bcd/resize/620x/2a7b91292e70a0125cc4a1317a5b9667/poll-nt-07.jpg)
(http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/03/19/fc21564f-defd-4ae6-b4b0-fa9cd796202c/resize/620x/aae6e1863852ce61fa77c05b7fd7aec4/poll-nt-08.jpg)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nationtracker-poll-whos-confident-and-whos-nervous/
You still trust poles?
I trust poles more than people.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f3/4c/b2/f34cb293c35e6fed4c2bce7933076163.jpg)
Quote from: Sorginak on March 19, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
The polls they were showing during Face The Nation this morning seemed to imply that people like and trust Trump.
That poll was hard to understand. The results were displayed in a way I've never seen. The partisan responses were as I would have expected, but I think it would have been clearer if they would have broken it down across the population at large. Maybe I'm just not used to that format.
Quote from: SGOS on March 19, 2017, 03:14:34 PM
That poll was hard to understand. The results were displayed in a way I've never seen. The partisan responses were as I would have expected, but I think it would have been clearer if they would have broken it down across the population at large. Maybe I'm just not used to that format.
I understand the conclusions. We are more divided than ever.
Trump supportors trust him utterly no matter what nonsense he says and even when he says opposite things. They aren't aggreeing, they are "believing". They trust him completely. Rational voters don't.
This is becoming a challenge of thought vs nonsense, and there are a frightening number of people who are nonsensical
The most unpopular "president" in living memory, unpresident Dongle Tramp, has become even more unpopular.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/19/president-trumps-approval-rating-dips-further-as-americans-eye-key-policies.html
Quote from: Atheon on March 21, 2017, 05:18:30 AM
The most unpopular "president" in living memory, unpresident Dongle Tramp, has become even more unpopular.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/19/president-trumps-approval-rating-dips-further-as-americans-eye-key-policies.html
US government just banned anything carryon on international flights, that is electronic, and larger than a cell phone. You have to check your laptop/tablet in your baggage. Take care on your travels.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2017, 04:56:20 AM
I understand the conclusions. We are more divided than ever.
Trump supportors trust him utterly no matter what nonsense he says and even when he says opposite things. They aren't aggreeing, they are "believing". They trust him completely. Rational voters don't.
This is becoming a challenge of thought vs nonsense, and there are a frightening number of people who are nonsensical
After I posted, I had to struggle to understand why the poll bothered me. First, it's statistical gibberish. It says nothing about what percentage of the population supports Trump, and what percentage opposes. It only tells what percentage of his supporters believe him, and in some of the interpretations used, it limits belief in Trump's claims to only his "strongest" supporters. Well Ya-fuckin'-hoo. Anyone who's been awake for the past 30 years should understand the dynamics of partisanship. What would we expect? That 84% of his "strongest supporters" think he's a liar? I don't think so. Well, maybe there is something useful to glean from this. If so, it wouldn't be gibberish exactly, just useless maybe.
Second, let's superimpose this information on top of the poll provided by Atheon: Around 37 percent of those polled disapprove of Trump. While other presidents have received such ratings, none that I know have gotten to that point in the second month of their presidency. Trump seems to be breaking new ground here, but lets go back to my second point because his approval rating isn't my main concern. It's only related:
Who cares what some nebulous percentage of "strongest supporters" believe him? I could come up with a guess off the top of my head that would be roughly in the ball park of the poll, or I could just throw darts at a chart, especially given the margin of error introduced by the concept of "strongest supporters." Of course a strong supporter is going to believe him. Because believing him would make a person a strong supporter. It's kind of the definition.
Prejudice applied to rhetoric, which is then applied to observation and inquiry ... crapifying any evidence with bias or spin. Any real analysis, has to be based on raw numbers, never on percentages. And you have to include all the data (including the questions asked, are they leading questions?). Any attempt to exclude responses is simply falsification ... even if the questions are legitimate. This is why Hillary's pre-election polls were wrong ... they were biased to tell her what she wanted to hear. This is what happens when you have hideous syncophants as followers. They can't speak truth to power.
Quote from: SGOS on March 21, 2017, 09:09:23 AM
After I posted, I had to struggle to understand why the poll bothered me. First, it's statistical gibberish. It says nothing about what percentage of the population supports Trump, and what percentage opposes. It only tells what percentage of his supporters believe him, and in some of the interpretations used, it limits belief in Trump's claims to only his "strongest" supporters. Well Ya-fuckin'-hoo. Anyone who's been awake for the past 30 years should understand the dynamics of partisanship. What would we expect? That 84% of his "strongest supporters" think he's a liar? I don't think so. Well, maybe there is something useful to glean from this. If so, it wouldn't be gibberish exactly, just useless maybe.
Second, let's superimpose this information on top of the poll provided by Atheon: Around 37 percent of those polled disapprove of Trump. While other presidents have received such ratings, none that I know have gotten to that point in the second month of their presidency. Trump seems to be breaking new ground here, but lets go back to my second point because his approval rating isn't my main concern. It's only related:
Who cares what some nebulous percentage of "strongest supporters" believe him? I could come up with a guess off the top of my head that would be roughly in the ball park of the poll, or I could just throw darts at a chart, especially given the margin of error introduced by the concept of "strongest supporters." Of course a strong supporter is going to believe him. Because believing him would make a person a strong supporter. It's kind of the definition.
There are polls more detailed than that. Seek an ye shall find.